I don't care (Huffington Post mom article)

[Joanne]

I used to care, very much, with tons of judgment.

 

Now that life circumstances have changed my view and intensity, I don't care.

 

Healthy families, good education, and quality humans come from a variety of contexts.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-maida/dear-moms-heres-why-i-dont-care-if-you-work_b_7029568.html

[elfgivas]

"I care about who you are, how we relate to one another, and what motivates you.

I care about what matters, and I really don't care about the rest."

 

amen, sister, amen!

[MIch elle]

BRAVO!!

[momacacia]

I'm too tired to care. My monkeys are exhausting enough.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Amen. And I'm stunned on a regular basis by how much some people DO care about a lot of that garbage.

[*Lulu*]

Thank you.

 

As long as you are not abusive, to your family or mine, or trying to force your choices upon me, c'est la vive.

 

The worst part of the mommy wars is that having an opinion or preference is frequently viewed as looking down on those who don't agree with you.

[Guest]

I confess to still caring about a select few of those. But I care less every year - and even if it matters to me that doesn't mean I get to huff around trying to make everyone else have my same hangup!

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I confess to still caring about a select few of those. But I care less every year - and even if it matters to me that doesn't mean I get to huff around trying to make everyone else have my same hangup!

 

I really think that for most of us, it's something that fades away as our kids get older and we watch the kids around us get older. I've seen some of my dearest parenting theories fail miserably with my kids and I've watched as kids I've believed weren't being raised well or effectively turn into lovely, kind, responsible people. Once we have the opportunity to see that most kids will turn out well no matter what parenting techniques they were raised with or family types they came from, we start to realize how little most of it matters!

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/opinion/sunday/the-only-baby-book-youll-ever-need.html

[Guest]

That's not the part I care about, but I hear what you're saying. I'm never going to not care when someone's marriage fails or they or their spouse work such long hours they barely see their kids. Those things grieve me. But it's not a blame game and it's not my business, however I still feel sad for the families and their situation. It's not a mommy wars issue, it's a conscience thing. Unless asked, I'm not giving opinions on it to people!

 

Breast, bottle, housekeeping, yoga pants, etc, doesn't make a lick of difference to me.

[LibraryLover]

But.  ;) I still care about junk food. I can't help it.  It's a health and political issue.

 

(Although I am not talking about the occasional Happy Meal, just in case that wasn't obvious. Food deserts, inequity etc are my concerns.)

 

[Anne in CA]

 I really have't ever cared, but  I think I came off as way more judgmental than I was when I talked about my own choices. I have worked too much, used formula when I had breast milk, sent two of my children to public school, allowed my preteen dd to wear makeup, and I am allowing her to go to the Prom with a senior this year even though she is a freshman. I would have been booted out of our old home schooling community for most of those things, lol. 

[Guest]

I really have't ever cared, but I think I came off as way more judgmental than I was when I talked about my own choices. I have worked too much, used formula when I had breast milk, sent two of my children to public school, allowed my preteen dd to wear makeup, and I am allowing her to go to the Prom with a senior this year even though she is a freshman. I would have been booted out of our old home schooling community for most of those things, lol.

Oh man! When I admitted I wasn't rabidly anti-common core, because most of the complaints about it were complaints I had against public education, in general? Pin drop.

 

Apparently not opposing all standardized testing or grade standards of some sort makes me heretical ;)

[fairfarmhand]

AWESOME!

 

It's about time someone just came out and said it.

[unsinkable]

Yeah...right for the first sentence, I disagree.

 

Motherhood is not a hobby. This isn't raising chickens or crocheting or cosplay.

 

I doubt I'd agree with someone who thought motherhood was a hobby.

[Guest]

Yeah...right for the first sentence, I disagree.

 

Motherhood is not a hobby. This isn't raising chickens or crocheting or cosplay.

 

I doubt I'd agree with someone who thought motherhood was a hobby.

Though if it was cosplay I can think of a few awesome costume ideas!

[creekland]

Hmm, if that had been the life statement of a co-op, I just might have joined one.

 

I'd like to think it fits the Hive (most of us at least).

[creekland]

Yeah...right for the first sentence, I disagree.

 

Motherhood is not a hobby. This isn't raising chickens or crocheting or cosplay.

 

I doubt I'd agree with someone who thought motherhood was a hobby.

 

Some folks devote more time and affection to their hobbies than to pretty much any other aspect of their life - AND they do it because they love it, not because they HAVE to.

 

It all depends upon how one views the word.

[unsinkable]

Though if it was cosplay I can think of a few awesome costume ideas!

I would design a cosplay for an "arctic mama." It'd be awesome and it'd have (fake) polar bear fur and icicle crown.

[Guest]

I would design a cosplay for an "arctic mama." It's be awesome and it'd have (fake) polar bear fur and icicle crown.

HA! So long as there were baby seals my kids would be all in.

[unsinkable]

HA! So long as there were baby seals my kids would be all in.

The baby seals would be your symbolic children.

[regentrude]

Some folks devote more time and affection to their hobbies than to pretty much any other aspect of their life - AND they do it because they love it, not because they HAVE to.

 

It all depends upon how one views the word.

 

Yes, this.

For many people, a job is something they do grudgingly because they have to since they need the money, but would prefer to be elsewhere - so one could equally disagree with anybody calling motherhood a "job".

A hobby you do out of your own volition and enjoy doing it.

 

The happiest people I know are the ones for whom their jobs are their hobbies and who look forward to them most days. For me, that would be the ideal attitude to motherhood. (Note that I said "most", not "all" ;-)

 

[unsinkable]

Hobbies are secondary and ancillary to people's lives. Motherhood isn't. You cannot just drop being a mom like you can drop a hobby because your interests change.

 

I've have friends who are adult kids of hobby moms. It's not a great way to grow up.

[DawnM]

Hmmm.....well, I do still hold some judgements, if you work 80 hours a week and never see your kids, I might be thinking something other than "isn't she a great mom!"  

 

There are things I think are BETTER choices than others, but it wouldn't prevent me from being friends with that person if we had enough other things in common.

[regentrude]

Hobbies are secondary and ancillary to people's lives. Motherhood isn't. You cannot just drop being a mom like you can drop a hobby because your interests change.

 

But that is not true for every person and every hobby. For some people, what they do outside of their job is their one true passion, and they put more energy and resources into this than in any other part of their lives. Mothering like this would be fabulous.

 

I guess we need to define "hobby".

 

[Guest]

I was thinking about this a few months ago when Dh and I had a small party. It was basically his friends and their wives. These ladies are all fine for an evening of fun, but I'm saying I didn't specifically choose them to be friends, KWIM? So I was reflecting on the evening and thinking how much less I care about how these women each define themselves, compared to how

I was 15 years ago.

 

None of them homeschooled. One is a public school principal, one is a teacher. Some have all grown children, while one is pregnant with her third. One woman's step-son died in an accident last year. Some are religious, some not. One is a waitress, one a nurse. Three have post-grad degrees, one has no college. There was around a fifteen-year age spread between the oldest of us and the youngest. We are each different. But it did not matter. We played a funny card game and laughed all night. It made me think about how easy it is to just have a fun evening when we aren't caught up in having a perfect soul-mate friendship.

[unsinkable]

But that is not true for every person and every hobby. For some people, what they do outside of their job is their one true passion, and they put more energy and resources into this than in any other part of their lives. Mothering like this would be fabulous.

 

I guess we need to define "hobby".

 

I'm going with the standard dictionary definiton.

[PrincessMommy]

Thank you.

 

As long as you are not abusive, to your family or mine, or trying to force your choices upon me, c'est la vive.

 

The worst part of the mommy wars is that having an opinion or preference is frequently viewed as looking down on those who don't agree with you.

 

so true... just leave me alone to do my job and I'll leave you alone.

 

And to the bolded... it seems this is the way it is for everything - not just mommy wars.  You cannot have opinion about anything because it means you're putting on airs or judging others.

[SparklyUnicorn]

But that is not true for every person and every hobby. For some people, what they do outside of their job is their one true passion, and they put more energy and resources into this than in any other part of their lives. Mothering like this would be fabulous.

 

I guess we need to define "hobby".

 

 

That would be the ultimate.  Then again the hobbies I have I suspect I'd hate if they were my job.  There is something nice about not having to do them when I don't feel like it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

That would be the ultimate.  Then again the hobbies I have I suspect I'd hate if they were my job.  There is something nice about not having to do them when I don't feel like it. 

 

So would I put commas somewhere in that sentence?  This is the sort of sentence I get confused by in terms of commas. 

[albeto.]

Yeah...right for the first sentence, I disagree.

 

Motherhood is not a hobby. This isn't raising chickens or crocheting or cosplay.

 

I doubt I'd agree with someone who thought motherhood was a hobby.

 

Yeah, I thought the article pretty silly, myself. The penultimate sentence in particular I find to be insubstantial insofar as it supposedly makes the point that relies on the variable she spends the entire article devaluing. Does the author pretend that "who you are, how we relate to one another, and what motivates you" has nothing to do with the very experiences, values, or beliefs that we have? It's a feel-good article aimed at reducing the Mommy Wars. As such, it's a nice sentiment, and I agree with the idea as I understand it - we're all probably just doing our best with the tools we have at our disposal, and no one experience should be mistaken for some universal reality, so calm the heck down and get to know this other person you've been looking down your nose at. Who knows, you just might enjoy each other's company. 

[Ailaena]

 I've seen some of my dearest parenting theories fail miserably with my kids and I've watched as kids I've believed weren't being raised well or effectively turn into lovely, kind, responsible people. Once we have the opportunity to see that most kids will turn out well no matter what parenting techniques they were raised with or family types they came from, we start to realize how little most of it matters!

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/opinion/sunday/the-only-baby-book-youll-ever-need.html

 

 

This x 1000.  

[Daria]

I found the first sentence about motherhood being a hobby bizarre, because I've never heard anyone say it.  I can't even imagine a context in which someone would say it, that wasn't tongue in cheek.  (e.g. "Do you have any hobbies?"  "I have 3 kids under 4, does that count?" or "I'm a mom, my hobbies are carpooling, cleaning, and checking homework.") 

 

Has anyone ever heard someone say it seriously?  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

So would I put commas somewhere in that sentence?  This is the sort of sentence I get confused by in terms of commas. 

 

If you're worried, you're better off rewriting it. But we know what you mean!

[SparklyUnicorn]

If you're worried, you're better off rewriting it. But we know what you mean!

 

I'm not worried.  I would just like to know once and for all how to deal with commas in sentences like the one I posted.  Every time I look for information about this they only post short sentences with 2 clauses tops.  That's not helpful.

[.Michelle.]

That would be the ultimate.  Then again the hobbies I have I suspect I'd hate if they were my job.  There is something nice about not having to do them when I don't feel like it. 

 

It it were me, I'd write it as, "Then again, the hobbies I have I suspect I'd hate if they were my job."  But I'd also be tempted to add another comma between hate and if.  I think I use too many commas, though.  

[SKL]

I have opinions.  (They change as I gain experience.)  But what I don't have is time to score other parents on the job they are doing.  I'm way too busy trying to manage my own home and health.

 

I've also noticed that the parents who are a real obvious mess are usually struggling with some sort of mental problem.  If I don't have that problem, that makes me lucky, not better.  And, truth be told, I have my days ... perhaps I'm just better at hiding it.

 

As for me, I have so many strikes against me right out of the gate, there's no point worrying about it.  :P  My kids are OK, so everyone who judges me can go pound salt.  ;)

[SKL]

As for motherhood being a hobby?  Does not compute.  That sounds like something that would be said by a childless person.  :P

 

My hobbies don't have to be launched into a productive, independent adult life.

 

(But wait a minute - I don't have any hobbies.  I have kids and a job.  I haven't had time for a hobby since my kids came home.  Or was it since I discovered internet forums?)

[KathyBC]

So would I put commas somewhere in that sentence?  This is the sort of sentence I get confused by in terms of commas. 

Then again, the hobbies I have, I suspect, I'd hate if they were my job.

 

 

Except I would reword:

Then again, I suspect I'd hate the hobbies I have if they were my job.

[hornblower]

How does this square with the whole 'it takes a village to raise a child?'  We're not supposed to have opinions about whether Mary is doing an ok job or if Jack really has a good grip on raising teens?

 

& for that matter, evidence based interventions?

I've done workshops for the at risk young moms & pregnant women & it gutted me. Sorry, but you have to explain to people that they need to pick their baby up, that they need to talk to their baby, that they need to read to their children.  I can't imagine how the nurses and social workers who work with those groups manage because there were moments when honestly I wanted to grab all the babies and run.

And 90% of the questions I (as an ibclc) got were how much can I drink/how soon can I drink/If I've been really partying but can like walk now, is it ok?

I dunno. I know I'm really out of the realm of mommy wars - this is as close to a parenting board as I've been for years - so perhaps I'm not seeing the real bad that judgement is doing. But some of the kumbaya we're all parents in this together (incl that nauseating ad by a formula manufacturer) really just sit wrong with me. 

Otoh, I do see that a lot of the criticisms and segmenting are just bickering among privileged people about marginalia. So maybe that's what this article is trying to address?

/signed, call me judgy.

[Guest]

Hornblower, that's exactly what it was trying to address. That's why I mentioned some things I still care about, because I think they're beyond the level of bottle feeding or Unschooling.

 

I could NOT do that sort of counseling. I'd probably alternate between bawling, being judgy and self righteous, and wanting to adopt each family to help them, even though I'm not the world's best parent, myself. It takes a really gentle, relaxed, caring person to handle at risk groups with any sort of grace. That's not me, and I'm in awe of those who do it and do it well.

[creekland]

 

Otoh, I do see that a lot of the criticisms and segmenting are just bickering among privileged people about marginalia. So maybe that's what this article is trying to address?

 

 

This was my take out of it.  Quit judging the gray areas where intelligent people differ in their thoughts (formula vs breast feeding, etc).

 

I don't think anyone is saying it's ok to put Jack Daniels into the baby bottle.

 

From what I see at school, there are many different parenting styles and preferences that turn out decent teens/adults.

 

There are also many different parenting styles and preferences that turn out teens who don't fly so well.

 

BUT, they are the same "different" parenting styles and preferences.  It's just impossible to get that "one" correct style that works for every single child no matter how many experts weigh in on the situation.  Humans vary.  That's just a fact of life.

 

Non-parenting (neglect) is a totally different issue.

[hornblower]

This was my take out of it.  Quit judging the gray areas where intelligent people differ in their thoughts (formula vs breast feeding, etc).

 

 

LOL, I'm an IBCLC. That's one area where I don't see much grey. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

LOL, I'm an IBCLC. That's one area where I don't see much grey. 

 

And this is the one area where my thinking has changed the most. Now that my kids are older, I can see that the FF kids in my life are just as healthy (if not healthier in some cases :() than my kids, one of whom I nursed for just about 2.5 years (until she started refusing) and the other almost 3. I followed all the guidelines (of the time) to a T. The FF kids are just as close to their parents, just as intelligent, etc. I'm way less judgmental about it now than I used to be. 

[hornblower]

But n=1 isn't a reasonable way to make these types of decisions.

I didn't get an ounce of breastmilk & I score pretty darned high on the iq charts. Doesn't change the large scale studies on this topic.
 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

But n=1 isn't a reasonable way to make these types of decisions.

I didn't get an ounce of breastmilk & I score pretty darned high on the iq charts. Doesn't change the large scale studies on this topic.

 

 

There are lots of large scale studies that show lots of different things. Sometimes those things even conflict. I'm not saying I don't think BFing is important. I do. I miss nursing babies terribly and wish I had one more chance to do it again. But I don't think it's the panacea it's been made out to be. I think there are lots of factors that can account for variations in study results. And I think FF kids can be, and are, just as healthy and intelligent and attached as BF kids are in most cases. 

[hornblower]

I'm bowing out of this thread.

[creekland]

I know many who were FF including myself and hubby.

 

While it might not be the best out there in the overall sense, it sure doesn't seem to do major harm to many either.  It really ought to be mom's choice IMO, and of course, for some moms BF just doesn't work (or work for long).

[Guest]

How does this square with the whole 'it takes a village to raise a child?' We're not supposed to have opinions about whether Mary is doing an ok job or if Jack really has a good grip on raising teens?

 

& for that matter, evidence based interventions?

 

I've done workshops for the at risk young moms & pregnant women & it gutted me. Sorry, but you have to explain to people that they need to pick their baby up, that they need to talk to their baby, that they need to read to their children. I can't imagine how the nurses and social workers who work with those groups manage because there were moments when honestly I wanted to grab all the babies and run.

 

And 90% of the questions I (as an ibclc) got were how much can I drink/how soon can I drink/If I've been really partying but can like walk now, is it ok?

 

I dunno. I know I'm really out of the realm of mommy wars - this is as close to a parenting board as I've been for years - so perhaps I'm not seeing the real bad that judgement is doing. But some of the kumbaya we're all parents in this together (incl that nauseating ad by a formula manufacturer) really just sit wrong with me.

 

Otoh, I do see that a lot of the criticisms and segmenting are just bickering among privileged people about marginalia. So maybe that's what this article is trying to address?

 

/signed, call me judgy.

I saw the article this way, though also, I did not read every word. I took it more as, "Oh, you put your baby in a CRIB? I would never do that. My baby sleeps on a hand-knit alpaca wool family bed that I knit on a mountaintop during pregnancy."