A change in the homeschool movement since I started 13 years ago

[mama27]

I guess I'm more afraid that my introverted nature will make it harder for her to meet more people. 

Guess that's just something I'm going to have to work through, huh? ;)

 

I'm more introverted now than I used to be but I also think I'm more choosy about who and what kind of people I want as friends for myself and my kids. Having a few really good friends is more important to me than a lot of accquaintinces.

 

[Guest]

I have had less than glowing experiences with the charter schools moving into our area.

 

It is considered socially acceptable for their employees to troll our secular/inclusive Yahoo group advertising their products and trying to recruit customers.

 

It is not considered socially acceptable for an independent to reply to a post asking for help "because my husband thinks I spend too much money on curriculum and wants me to enroll our kids in a charter" with links to used curriculum swap boards.

 

I only had to be told once back in 2003ish and did not need my inbox clogged up with quite so much vitriol to get the point across.

 

I have no problems with my kid playing with charter school students, but it's kind of hard not to pick up my book or hide the fact that my eyes start to glaze over about 20 minutes into a discussion on how to cut the bible verse off the bottom of the workbook to make it  "acceptable" and other things that are no more relevant to my own life than where the school bus stops and what time the kids have to be out the door on cold winter mornings.

 

My ds might feel the same way when kids talk about charter school field trips and STAR testing.

 

It's easy to look back at the "golden days" of homeschooling through rose coloured glasses, but to be bluntly honest, my now-25 year old has told me some horror stories that would have made me bow out of our old group in the late '90s if I had known about them when the bullying incidents actually happened instead of ten years after the fact.

 

OP, now that i think about it, I had planned on skipping Park day for a few months before the vaccine incident happened because of a writing class that probably fits the definition of a homeschool co-op:

 

Somebody had arranged to have a "professional" teach a creative writing class at the same location and right before a scheduled Park Day. I just brushed it off as something i wasn't interested in, just the way I don't pay much attention to teen events because I don't have teenagers or Bible study groups because I'm not a Christian.

 

An unschooling family was far more vocal that I was and I felt obligated to post in solidarity with her. Then I felt obligated to explain that I was not "another one of those unschoolers" and to post more personal information about my reasons for not wanting my kindergartener (who was learning proper pencil grip and letter formation at the time) to take a creative writing class than I really wanted to.

 

The vaccine war was the straw that broke the camel's back. We were invited to the liberal Christian group and since I know some of the members from parenthood V.1.0 I'm more comfortable being the "token secular" family than bashing or defending people for parenting choices that are none of my business.

 

My 6 yo is not the extrovert his older brother was, for which I am grateful, but he currently enjoys visiting with one family at a time and has friends who use many, many different educational options, from public schoolers to radical unschoolers and everything in between.

 

Some of them have parents who I met because they were friends of my then-teenagers. :D

 

 

[Elisabet1]

One main change I have seen is in discipline. I amazed at all the parents where I live who home school because they didn't like someone else telling their child what to do. Field trips can be nightmares and even park days are loosing favor with us.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

One main change I have seen is in discipline. I amazed at all the parents where I live who home school because they didn't like someone else telling their child what to do. Field trips can be nightmares and even park days are loosing favor with us.

 

I thought this until I went to museums and theatrical productions where school field trips were attending too.  The school kids were loud and crazy, every time.

[myfunnybunch]

I too can't get why people think co-ops are better. Some of these teachers are just moms. No special degree. And the costs add up. I would have to know going into the next year we were using co-ops and buy less curriculum...or I wouldn't have the money to do the co-op!

Our co-op is a group of moms looking to pool resources and hire teachers for subjects we can't or don't want to teach ourselves. :) Spanish, geometry, biology in a great space with good lab equipment, guitar, and so forth, taught by experienced teachers. Ds takes Spanish at the co-op. We can participate in as many/few classes as we want. It's pretty informal. Works well for the middle and high schoolers.

 

Cat

[Pen]

Give me a minute to put my head between my knees now that I realize I've been homeschooling for 13 years!!!!!

 

Anyways! I've noticed that when I started this journey there were lots of hs groups that met weekly at a park and the kids just played. Just played. the teenagers all the way down to the newborns. Well, obviously newborns didn't play, but they got admired and held, etc. The moms sat and talked. Jus talked. Talked about what was going right, going wrong, what was for dinner, what they missed about working, their pets, whatever.

 Then we met once a month and had some kind of educational activity. A field trip. A science day. International Night. Etc.

 

Now, there are way more groups and they still meet weekly but instead of just...gasp!...hanging out, it's all day educational classes (aka co-op) and homework assignments. And MAYBE once a month fun things like skating. Maybe.

 

I'm really not fond of this shift. What was wrong with just going to a park and letting kids PLAY?

 

 

I'd love to be able to do that.

 

What I have observed (not home schooling so very long), was that whether in school or out, park days worked great for younger kids. But as the children have gotten older they are not working well for several reasons: 1) the parks have been having things that older children might like to do removed ("rock climbing" practice wall and so on), 2) the kids try to turn equipment into something fun for them by doing things like climbing up a tunnel slide on its outside, causing potential danger, 3) fewer older kids show up due to conflicts with other activities or the boring nature of park leads to them staying home, thus it becomes even less fun for the few who do show up and have no peers to play with.

[Ellie]

One main change I have seen is in discipline. I amazed at all the parents where I live who home school because they didn't like someone else telling their child what to do. Field trips can be nightmares and even park days are loosing favor with us.

 

Oh, yeah, that has always been a problem.

 

When I organized field trips that were more structured (i.e., we had to stay together as a group, and there were docents of some sort) I called everyone together at the beginning and told them The Rules:

 

• Short people in front, tall people in back
• No talking, no touching (unless given permission)
• This includes parents; if they want to talk, they can leave the room
• All children are subject to correction by all adults
• Children who refuse to behave, and who refuse to be corrected by any adult, will be asked to leave (and might not be welcome to attend other field trips)
• Adults who refuse to behave will be asked to leave (and might not be welcome to attend other field trips) (I am not making this up!)

[Shellydon]

I guess I'm more afraid that my introverted nature will make it harder for her to meet more people. 

Guess that's just something I'm going to have to work through, huh? ;)

 

This is one of the reasons we do co-op.  I could easily stay home all day everday, but my kids want to be with consistent friends.  Co-op provides that beautifully.

[Ellie]

This is one of the reasons we do co-op.  I could easily stay home all day everday, but my kids want to be with consistent friends.  Co-op provides that beautifully.

 

So did my support group. :-)

 

And my dds' varied activities (ballet, Highland dance, 4-H, marching band, Camp Fire) gave them wider social interactions than a classroom environment would have. :-)

[Shellydon]

We have a tiny co-op I started myself and the above is why. Consistent friends are important for my boy.

 

Plus it gives the kids an opportunity to do group work, and presentations, and activities that work better with more kids.

 

I wouldn't be up for a huge 2 days a week co-op at all. But co-op really only stands for co-operative learning, and you can set up any kind of co-op that works for you and your children.

 

 

Yep, that consistent friendship thing can be hard when homeschooling.  We initially tried park days and extra-curricular activities like gymnastics, but the people that attended those things were pretty transient.  A friend might miss 5 park days in a row, which would make my kids so sad.  Once we switch to a co-op based group, the consistent friendship thing got so much better.  There are still people that come and go, but the comminment to pay for and/or teach classes keep the changes minimal.  Our co-op has moms that frequently organize tween or teen night out events, park days, all ages play days etc., so the kids can all see each other as frequently as the parents and kids want.  It is such  huge blessing and I am so thanksful for the women who serve on our co-op board and keep it running. 

[mama27]

I have had less than glowing experiences with the charter schools moving into our area.

 

It is considered socially acceptable for their employees to troll our secular/inclusive Yahoo group advertising their products and trying to recruit customers.

 

It is not considered socially acceptable for an independent to reply to a post asking for help "because my husband thinks I spend too much money on curriculum and wants me to enroll our kids in a charter" with links to used curriculum swap boards.

 

I only had to be told once back in 2003ish and did not need my inbox clogged up with quite so much vitriol to get the point across.

 

I have no problems with my kid playing with charter school students, but it's kind of hard not to pick up my book or hide the fact that my eyes start to glaze over about 20 minutes into a discussion on how to cut the bible verse off the bottom of the workbook to make it  "acceptable" and other things that are no more relevant to my own life than where the school bus stops and what time the kids have to be out the door on cold winter mornings.

 

My ds might feel the same way when kids talk about charter school field trips and STAR testing.

 

It's easy to look back at the "golden days" of homeschooling through rose coloured glasses, but to be bluntly honest, my now-25 year old has told me some horror stories that would have made me bow out of our old group in the late '90s if I had known about them when the bullying incidents actually happened instead of ten years after the fact.

 

OP, now that i think about it, I had planned on skipping Park day for a few months before the vaccine incident happened because of a writing class that probably fits the definition of a homeschool co-op:

 

Somebody had arranged to have a "professional" teach a creative writing class at the same location and right before a scheduled Park Day. I just brushed it off as something i wasn't interested in, just the way I don't pay much attention to teen events because I don't have teenagers or Bible study groups because I'm not a Christian.

 

An unschooling family was far more vocal that I was and I felt obligated to post in solidarity with her. Then I felt obligated to explain that I was not "another one of those unschoolers" and to post more personal information about my reasons for not wanting my kindergartener (who was learning proper pencil grip and letter formation at the time) to take a creative writing class than I really wanted to.

 

The vaccine war was the straw that broke the camel's back. We were invited to the liberal Christian group and since I know some of the members from parenthood V.1.0 I'm more comfortable being the "token secular" family than bashing or defending people for parenting choices that are none of my business.

 

My 6 yo is not the extrovert his older brother was, for which I am grateful, but he currently enjoys visiting with one family at a time and has friends who use many, many different educational options, from public schoolers to radical unschoolers and everything in between.

 

Some of them have parents who I met because they were friends of my then-teenagers. :D

 

In one state we lived in we were in 4H and the moms were SOOOO tiger-mom about those project books!  I mean they asked EVERY single question in the books, and wrote down EVERY single answer and even asked a million other questions and wrote down THOSE answers and would turn a 45 minute field trip in (literally) 4 hours because of all that and my kids wanted to play in the dirt after about 30 minutes. This group of moms came to a park day and were teaching (telling everyone the answers to the project book) what they learned from a field trip we skipped and this other mom and I were there already and they were shushing us because they could not hear! I was like are you kidding me??? This is a public park and we were here first and now you have the gall to shush us??? The other mom just got louder which was funny. That was just stupid.

 

I have mostly introverted kids now, the 2 who were really social aren't a much as they used to be. One because she is 15 now and is going through the "All people suck" phase and the other is my 9 yo boy who is really just happy everywhere.

[Lolly]

Not read all the replies, but I wanted a park group when I joined a coop 15!!! years ago. We dropped out after a semester because it was all academic. Never did go back.

[Sahamamama]

It pains me that others have made you feel this way. I guess you and I are both losers. ;) You can join my club. It is for homebodies! :)

 

Count me in! :) Let's see... Our local options include the following:

 

1. Homeschool Park Days -- These are held about once per week (I think), rather loosely organized, and seem to randomly rotate locations and/or get cancelled by a method I haven't figured out yet. We've been to a few, they are basically play times at parks, wading in creeks, etc. They seem to be well-attended by nonschoolers and/or unschoolers, but those with an academic focus don't seem to be present. It's so hard to know, though, because nothing much actually gets said, just shallow chit-chat about nothing for a few hours. For the most part, it hasn't seemed worth the effort to track down IF there's a park day, WHERE it is being held, WHEN it will begin and end, and so on.

 

2. Homeschool Game Days -- These are held twice per month at a local library, on the 2nd and 4th Monday afternoons, which is not exactly the best day or time for us, but we've been to several of these. The kids play games, the moms chat. When we go, we do enjoy it. We've connected to people through this, and that's been good. No structure, no pressure, just games. This is a good option for our climate, too, because it's well-attended in the winter months, when there are no more park days.

 

3. Christian Homeschool Co-Op -- This is a co-op held at a local church. Some classes are fee-based, some are free. There seem to be classes that range from knitting to British Literature, all taught by moms. To enroll a student, you have to be a member of the homeschool group, sign a statement of faith, pay yearly dues. We haven't done this at all. I have little interest in what is offered, or feel we can do better work at home.

 

4. Classical Conversations -- Self-explanatory. This group also meets at a local church. Zero interest.

 

5. Academic Co-Op -- There is an academic co-op that seems to run like a mini-school, one full day per week, with homework assignments, class change bells, lunch period, etc. They offer strong academic classes, and try to be clear about the expectations upfront. They also provide enrichment classes, a musical theater program, an educational fair, an annual picnic, field trips, a snowball dance, a prom, and graduation. We are friends with a family involved in this co-op, and the mom works her tail off teaching several classes. Whew! For some reason, I can't imagine doing this myself. Perhaps it's the loss of autonomy? The (hefty) tuition? The travel and time commitment? When I try to picture us doing this, I know we're better off working at home. We couldn't afford it, anyway.

 

6. Unschooling/Nonschooling -- Yes, this is a local option. There seems to be a rather large, vocal, somewhat militant unschooling/nonschooling community here. I'm not sure, exactly? It's a vibe, or an unsettled feeling, as though the way in which we homeschool (e.g., use workbooks, require work, give assignments, directly teach, etc.) or even just the fact that we think in terms of "school" is frowned upon or considered damaging to our children. Whatever. Again, zero interest.

 

7. Church Midweek -- There are about 175 children in our church's midweek Bible program, which is well-run, full of energy, and the highlight of my children's week. They just LOVE this, so it's not to be missed. The girls are enrolled in the Sunday kid's ministry, as well. Both are well worth doing. (Wednesday evening)

 

8. Christian Children's Choirs -- There are two choirs available here, one for children 4-8 years old, and another for children 9-15 years old. They are well-directed, organized, and nearly free (very minimal fee to participate). The director expects and demands good behavior, punctuality, and practice at home. This is a good fit for us. The choirs are not exclusively for homeschoolers, but most of the children are homeschooled. (Thursday afternoon)

 

9. Secular Homeschool Group -- I know this exists, but since I have so little interest in co-ops (apparently), I haven't looked into it at all.

 

Out of all that, only the church Sunday ministry, the church midweek program, and the choirs are regular, weekly activities for us. These, plus the occasional game day or park day, and weekly visits with grandparents, are more than enough to fill the plate. If we ran around more than that, we wouldn't get our school work and housework done, nor would we be rested and healthy. It matters to us to be home enough to accomplish our goals.

[Sahamamama]

<----- See those baby legs? Nearly 8, nearly 10, and nearly 8 now. We're still having a blast. Twins are awesome!

 

The same attitude exists about raising multiples. When I was pregnant with my twins I was told I just "had" to join a mothers-of-multiples group. Two years in, I'm doing just fine without one because *gasp* twins are just like any other kids out there.

With the plethora of parenting books, talk of "parenting styles," etc., it's as though moms can't be trusted to make their own decisions anymore.

I was told that, too, and I ignored it, too. LOL.

[Ellie]

 

1. Homeschool Park Days -- These are held about once per week (I think), rather loosely organized, and seem to randomly rotate locations and/or get cancelled by a method I haven't figured out yet. We've been to a few, they are basically play times at parks, wading in creeks, etc. They seem to be well-attended by nonschoolers and/or unschoolers, but those with an academic focus don't seem to be present. It's so hard to know, though, because nothing much actually gets said, just shallow chit-chat about nothing for a few hours. For the most part, it hasn't seemed worth the effort to track down IF there's a park day, WHERE it is being held, WHEN it will begin and end, and so on.

 

 

Our park days were monthly, not weekly--weekly is just too much time sucked out of families' time at home.

 

And we never, ever changed location.

 

We never canceled a park day. It was always the first Friday of the month. Whoever showed up...showed up.

 

Of course it was play time for the children, but it was meaningful for the parents (mostly mothers) who might really have needed the shallow chit-chat after a month of being in their children's faces teaching :-) but there were still many wonderfully enlightening, entertaining, meaningful conversations. I wouldn't have missed those for the world.

 

Perhaps because our park days were just once a month, it was easier for unschoolers and academics alike to spend time together and appreciate one another's differences.

 

There were some unschoolers who met weekly (and who had been meeting together for some time before I began homeschooling in 1982), but I could just.not.do.weekly, and I was pretty relaxed.

[Sahamamama]

Our park days were monthly, not weekly--weekly is just too much time sucked out of families' time at home.

 

And we never, ever changed location.

 

We never canceled a park day. It was always the first Friday of the month. Whoever showed up...showed up.

 

Of course it was play time for the children, but it was meaningful for the parents (mostly mothers) who might really have needed the shallow chit-chat after a month of being in their children's faces teaching :-) but there were still many wonderfully enlightening, entertaining, meaningful conversations. I wouldn't have missed those for the world.

 

Perhaps because our park days were just once a month, it was easier for unschoolers and academics alike to spend time together and appreciate one another's differences.

 

There were some unschoolers who met weekly (and who had been meeting together for some time before I began homeschooling in 1982), but I could just.not.do.weekly, and I was pretty relaxed.

 

Yeah, I think it gets cancelled here because of rain, snow, sleet, heat, hail, blizzards, or hurricanes. My hubby is from CA, don't even get started on The Weather in NJ. Sheesh! ;) I have heard an earful.

 

I think for me it's hard to know if we should even try to go, because I'm never certain of which park to go to. Drive all over the county, trying to find Homeschool Park Day? Nah, just run out in the backyard. Save on gas, have access to a clean toilet, running water, snacks. No people, though, just horses and birds. However, I think we have enough access to people in other ways.

 

If the location was consistent enough, though, we probably would go about once a month, just to hang out.

[Crimson Wife]

 

We have a tiny co-op I started myself and the above is why. Consistent friends are important for my boy.

 

Plus it gives the kids an opportunity to do group work, and presentations, and activities that work better with more kids.

 

I wouldn't be up for a huge 2 days a week co-op at all. But co-op really only stands for co-operative learning, and you can set up any kind of co-op that works for you and your children.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, that consistent friendship thing can be hard when homeschooling.  We initially tried park days and extra-curricular activities like gymnastics, but the people that attended those things were pretty transient.  A friend might miss 5 park days in a row, which would make my kids so sad.  Once we switch to a co-op based group, the consistent friendship thing got so much better.  There are still people that come and go, but the comminment to pay for and/or teach classes keep the changes minimal.  Our co-op has moms that frequently organize tween or teen night out events, park days, all ages play days etc., so the kids can all see each other as frequently as the parents and kids want.  It is such  huge blessing and I am so thanksful for the women who serve on our co-op board and keep it running. 

 

What you see as "consistent friendship" could be seen by the non-coop members as fostering cliquishness. How would YOU feel if it were YOUR kids being shut out by the clique?

[In2why]

In my experience it is because we are notoriously unreliable. The same way homeschool families repeatedly back out of field trips they back out of park days. Especially if you live in a town or rural area. When I began homeschooling there was one support group and half the time we were the only family that showed up or there might be one or two other families. Now I belong to a co-op and we meet once a week. My son take art and geography and I teach an invention class. In between classes the kids play on the playground, shoot hoops, or hang out in the pavilion. We all eat lunch together and it is easier to organize field trips and collect money ahead of time for those field trips. I would love a more open and free park experience, but people just don't show up if they aren't paying for it. They get busy and it isn't a priority.

[stutterfish]

"Now, there are way more groups and they still meet weekly but instead of just...gasp!...hanging out, it's all day educational classes (aka co-op) and homework assignments. And MAYBE once a month fun things like skating. Maybe. I'm really not fond of this shift. What was wrong with just going to a park and letting kids PLAY?"

 

I don't know, but there have been changes in the home educating scene in the UK, too.

 

 

A larger proportion of the newbies now see the home education community as a 'service provider' (i.e. What groups can I buy into? What resources will you give me?)  and tend to be far more accepting of surveillance by local authorities (even though legally they don't have to jump those hoops) than we were back then. There are more families taking their kids out of school and then wanting to continue 'school' at home, than wanting something different, something more liberating for their children. There's definitely a different vibe.

 

 

When I first started (12 years ago) the few home educating families would say: 'I want to do this with my kids. Does anyone know how?'

Nowadays newbies come to the home ed community and say: 'I want this for my kids. Who is going to provide it for me?' 

 

I wonder if some of the changes are because home educating is so much easier now and requires a less hardy and stalwart personality than it did back then. There were so few of us (in the UK) that it was truly a radical decision to home educate. We had to have strong reason (and strong spirit!) to defend our position..and expect everyone to question us again and again about it.  There were no resources, limited access to the internet, few (if any) groups, no reliable way to connect with other home educating families. We *had* to have a DIY approach because nobody was going to do it for us. There were no adults who had been home educated and very few teens. It was a leap of faith and nobody knew how it was going to turn out.

 

There aren't many co-ops here (that trend hasn't really hit the UK, yet), but there are increasingly more structured groups forming as parents demand activities with more 'educational worth'. There are people coming to the local online group and saying 'Tell me where there is a science class for my 8 year old.' and I have to stop myself answering 'Science for an 8 year old? Really?! Can't you do that at home?'

 

I'm not saying I want to turn the clock back. I like that my kids can now go along to structured tutor groups run by home ed parents for teens. Because of those groups my children have a better chance of passing exams without having to go back into the school system. I like that they have a peer group that has grown up with them and that hasn't returned to school because families feel supported and able to continue. I like that there are enough teens in the community for them to hang out together, and enough toddlers for those families who want to home ed from the beginning to not feel alone. Most of all I like that there are still enough of us oldies around to encourage a fighting spirit in the newbies, and remind them that they are perfectly capable of giving their kids what they need, without expensive classes or curricula or government supervision. :001_smile:  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Frankly, the park days often ended up being dominated by one person who told everyone that academics were far overrated and count cleaning the kitchen as homeec and call it all good. I'm not all over everyone going to college, but certainly there MUST be some homeschool kids who are called to get Ph.D's and M.D.s, etc. and what about SWB? Did her Momma just hang out at parks all the time? I doubt it.

 

Story of my dang life.  I always seem to end up around people who don't value academics at all.

 

I've become a lot more particular about the homeschool groups I join and stuff I sign my kids up for. 

[Crimson Wife]

I care more about my child having a consistent group of friends to play and work with, than I do about being perceived as a clique.

 

I am 100% happy to walk any new person IRL through the process of creating their own small group, and frankly, I think that's all that can be asked of someone who runs or participates in a small, regular, closed group.

 

 

I care more about my kids being friendly to EVERYONE than whether they see the same group of kids at park day every single week.

 

Cliques were something I was REALLY hoping that homeschooling was going to let us avoid and when we started back in 2006 that was true. All the kids played with everybody and nobody got left out.

 

That's unfortunately no longer true and it is the kids who go to co-op together who are the worst offenders. I've seen them band together at the general support group park day and shut out the other kids who want to play.

 

Mean girls stink and it's a shame that the move towards co-ops has fostered it in the HSing community that used to be so open and welcoming.

[In2why]

I care more about my kids being friendly to EVERYONE than whether they see the same group of kids at park day every single week.

 

Cliques were something I was REALLY hoping that homeschooling was going to let us avoid and when we started back in 2006 that was true. All the kids played with everybody and nobody got left out.

 

That's unfortunately no longer true and it is the kids who go to co-op together who are the worst offenders. I've seen them band together at the general support group park day and shut out the other kids who want to play.

 

Mean girls stink and it's a shame that the move towards co-ops has fostered it in the HSing community that used to be so open and welcoming.

This is interesting and important. I firmly agree and support non bullying and zero tolerance. One of the things I love about the kids in our homeschool community is that there are less walls to play, like age, boys separating from girls and such. But they do tend to group together based on personalities and interests. Really athletic, high energy kids play basketball, soccer, or football during free time. The more introverted sit at picnic tables and chat about the toy they made from a toothbrush and battery for example. These kids would rarely come together and interact until they are partnered in a co-op class and realize they have a sense of humour in common or a love of a certain video game.

Once kids reach a certain age, parents can't force them to play or like other kids. Their interests and personalities determine their peers. Unless we as parents organize the activity and then it isn't free play.

[KarenC]

I'm a 24 yr vet of homeschooling and I'll tell you what's changed-our kids are growing up and we are having to figure out how to PAY for college. Getting in is no big deal, it's getting it paid fro. My dh makes good money- we are not rich, but we make decent money- we are the new middle class that can't afford anything. So, our kids are not eligible for a penny of gov aid, but we can't afford to give them anything. SO, they need amazing test scores or crazy amazing lives. That's not going to happen if I teach everything. The things I know well my kids rock at -history, writing, public speaking, drama, lit.  The things I'm average at, my kids are too (the first law of the teacher has definitely proved true in my life). And the ACT and SAT, weirdly enough, don't give a carp about how much history or science your kid knows. They care about 2 areas= Math and English- including spelling and punctuation. 

Frankly, TRUE unschooling only works for those with amazing amounts of $ or resources- we've never had an amazing amount of anything except kids and criticism from our parents. SO, if someone is going to offer chemistry- and they have a Ph.D. in it and they show up every week, I'm going to pay the $ for them to take the class. And because I work (along with more and more and more homeschoolers) that takes up about all the free time I have. I dont' have time to homeschool and hang out at the park. I did 20 yrs ago- I worked then too, but I was a LOT younger and the parks were closer. 

Frankly, the park days often ended up being dominated by one person who told everyone that academics were far overrated and count cleaning the kitchen as homeec and call it all good. I'm not all over everyone going to college, but certainly there MUST be some homeschool kids who are called to get Ph.D's and M.D.s, etc. and what about SWB? Did her Momma just hang out at parks all the time? I doubt it.

We are the same way.  We make too much money for need based aid, but no way can we afford to pay college costs for 3 kids.  We need significant scholarship money.  That means great ACT/SAT/PSAT scores, an impressive transcript, and extracurriculars.   We homeschool for academic reasons and most of our time is academically oriented.  I'm not saying we never have fun, but the bottom line is money for college.

[Shellydon]

What you see as "consistent friendship" could be seen by the non-coop members as fostering cliquishness. How would YOU feel if it were YOUR kids being shut out by the clique?

 

I've not ever seen a child shut out by any other kids at our co-op.  If a kid wants to play red rover with the other kids, then all he/she has to do is walk up and join in.   If for some reason my kids were being shut out by a group of children, I would help them find and establish their own group of friends.  This past year I held monthly craft days at my home for 6 -8 year old girls to help one of my kids find and establish friendships.  It has worked beautifully and she now has a fun group of friends that play together often.  Although I am sure they exist in some places, I have never seen a clique in a homeschool group. 

Consistent friendship and the establishment of good relationships is far more important that the appearence of cliquishness (that doesn't actually exsist.)  If someone isn't going to take the time to investigate the group and help their child find some new friends and integrate, then that is their problem, not the rest of the group.  It takes time and work to make friends, you have to be willing to get out their and invest yourself to make it work.

[HS Mom in NC]

I've been homeschooling for 14 years now.

If you want a weekly park day, start one. If you want it primarily for socializing, say so when you announce and advertise it. Not everyone wants that for various reasons and I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

Different Motivations for Homeschooling

 

I think there have been a couple of shifts in the homeschooling community. There used to be a larger proportion of  pioneer and settler homeschoolers and now there are more refugees. I make that statement matter of factly, not lamenting or cheering it.  Since pioneer homeschoolers are philosophical homeschoolers, people who think children were designed by God or naturally inclined to learn best in the family structure, they're not exclusively academically oriented. They homeschool to integrate a broader range of  aspects of education and value each more equally. Relationships and lifeskills carry more weight with them than people in it exclusively for academics. Settlers are in it primarily for the flexible lifestyle and individual fit so they're willing to socialize during regular school hours.

Refugees are into homeschooling as at least a second choice, often a third or fourth.  They started their kids in ps because that was their first choice.  Some would've preferred a private school but that wasn't an option either.  So, with few public charter schools (all charter schools are a form of public school) available in some areas, the regular ps schools being a bad fit and private school not an option, they're homeschooling. Many are doing more school at home approaches in case an institutional setting becomes and option again.  This isn't where they want to be, but sometimes you just gotta do whatcha gotta do. I respect that in a person.  Good for them.  When a co-op comes along it's a good fit for them because they don't really want to be homeschooling anyway.

 

Defining Homeschooling vs. Co-ops

I'm someone who thinks a co-op isn't homeschooling, but it's an incredibly valuable resource.  I think it needs it's own legally recognized term and legal protection.  I think if there were a whole lot more of them more people would pull their kids out of institutional settings and utilize them.  I think people who otherwise homeschool might also choose this route if more were available as the kids get into higher core academics and enrichment and transition out of homeschooling.  I'm all for it and support it completely.  I think there's a danger in not legally defining and protecting it. Homeschooling laws need to apply to homeschoolers.  PS laws to psers, private school laws to private schools, charter school laws to charter schools, etc. When things get mixed and or fuzzy, it can cause trouble for people doing things differently.

Co-ops can cause confusion in the homeschool community and clarifying it ruffles feathers.  No, sending your child to a co-op for someone else to give instruction while you supervise homework is not the same as homeschooling them in that subject. This by the way, wasn't what co-ops originally were.  They used to be true co-operatives where all the parents shared a small part of the teaching. Now it's being used to mean one person teaching other people's kids voluntarily or for pay which is very different. I have no problem with it, but it's a private class, not a co-op as in cooperative. Saying co-op should mean responsibility for teaching on the part of the participants' parents.

In homeschooling the parent does the teaching and grading him/herself.  Some of the people sending children to co-ops are offended that homeschoolers point out the differences when they suggest or state that it's not homeschooling.  This can happen with video instruction at home too.  I'm not upset by differences or pointing them out, I just want things to be clearly labeled and legally protected.  I kind of like the term "outsourcing" or "private tutoring" for these resources.  Anyone else have a term they use or like?

 

The Troubles with Co-Ops

Co-ops can be problematic when the leader is unclear about the purpose, goals, content and standards for the co-op or doesn't handle conflict well.  Parents of participants can cause problems by not reading and listening carefully about the co-op, not being on time, not making sure their children are prepared for co-op days, not having the same goals and standards as the leader, not taking their fair share of responsibility in a true co-op where people share the teaching, not paying for on time or contributing enough supplies to what is now being called a co-op where one person does the teaching, not handing conflict well, etc.

Understanding Cultural Norms

 

I see this aaaaaalllllllllllllllllll the time.  People from an institutional mindset have no idea they need to change how they think and how they act in the homeschooling community. This is homeschool. You, as the homeschooling parent, are responsible to make everything happen.  No one is going to send the memo home pinned to your child's shirt.  No one is going to send the reminder or follow up email. Do not expect a homeschooling welcome wagon or homeschool orientation. Sometimes these things are available to newbies, but no one is entitled to it.  It's time to go from a passive to an active mindset. While homeschoolers are friendly, don't sit and wait for someone to introduce themselves to you-you introduce yourself to them. Don't wait for someone to strike up a conversation with you-you strike one up with them.  Again, I'm not saying no homeschoolers will ever start one with you, just don't count it. Don't let your child sit and wait for an invitation to play at the park day. Your child should walk up and join in.  That's how all the other kids joined in. Don't wait for someone to invite you to their house for lunch, you invite them. Don't expect homeschoolers to go over the basics with you in person-do your homework and get familiar with homeschooling online and in print before you have conversations with homeschoolers about homeschooling.

Remember that not every kid likes to do the same thing.  After our homeschool PE class the kids play Star Wars with light sabers running around the park.  Not every kid wants to do that.  Please don't claim the clique is shutting your out because they don't come and give you a formal invitation to join them.  Go run around with them to show them you want to play. They've never turned anyone away. Be pro-active.  Teach your children to be pro-active.

Are there obnoxious, rude homeschoolers out there?  Yes.  Don't waste your time with them.  Find another group or start another group because life is too short to put up with unnecessary crap.

How Homeschoolers Have Changed

When I started homeschooling in 2000, there were no online communities. Few books about homeschooling were available-you had to get a bookstore to order them for you.  You had to get catalogs through snail mail and read them. You had to  ask them about homeschooling in person as there were no online forums. You had to get the packet of homeschooling groups in your state by snail mail and call the leaders on the phone and chat with them about their group. There was no pointing and clicking or using search engines. Some people who heard you homeschooled still asked, "Is that legal?"

Veteran homeschoolers speaking at conventions went to court to make homeschooling legal in your state.  A few had seen the inside of jails and many had seen the inside of courtrooms.  They often didn't know any other homeschoolers for years at a stretch while they homeschooled their kids. It was a rare person they met who had ever heard the word homeschooling. They had two or three private Christan school in a box curricula to choose from and supplemented with a library card or designed their own curriculum.  These were people who were mentally and emotionally tougher than anyone I'd ever met and the most innovative and resourceful.  They never whined about challenges or problems-they solved them themselves. I'm so glad I got to "sit at their feet" and learn from that kind of person. I worry that we're losing that kind of person in the homeschooling community and if legal attacks on homeschooling come in the future, fewer homeschoolers will be able to weather the storm because they're so accustomed to ease.

[swellmomma]

The groups I joined 11 years ago still have weekly park days,  I moved away so no longer go to them but I am still on the email groups for them so see the talk about them.  1 of them inspired the start of a co-op and that co-op still runs and has its place but those weekly park days are what got me the courage to start homeschooling (I joined and attended park days for 3 years before even starting to homeschool).  There is the one group that meets rain or shine on Mondays, they go to a park with an outbuilding that has a fire place they can use, so on raining or really cold days they get a fire going and the kid play board games and do crafts, on nice days they go outside to the park to play.  The other group meets on THursdays as they have for the last 11+ years, though not in really bad weather since they don't have an out building.  THe thursday group also does field trips, workshops in the "headquarters" they set up  a few years back(includes their lending library etc), and once a month a parents only evening.  The 3rd group was never designed to have park days, they were and still are a once a month parents only group BUT they host track and field for the kids every JUne, and a science/history fair every may for the kids and is the main one to host a used curric sale in the fall.  I loved these groups when I lived in the city and my kids and I miss the carefree park days and the people they met.  The kid who plays Mr. Young on that tween tv show used to attend our Thursday park day, my kids think it is so cool to be able to say they used to play tag and such at the playground with him when they were all just little elementary aged kids.  Co-ops are great and serve their purpose, but so does play based support groups.  

[Bear23]

It's been nearly 10 years for me. I am not a big fan of all the educational or enrichment co-ops out there. Life was more simple without them and actually next year we are thinking about going back to just staying home and going out once or twice a month.  It isn't easy with 3 kids of different ages or interest.  We are in two different co-ops and I swear that my kids are missing out on some opportunities because we are in these weekly and twice a week co-ops.  It be interesting to see how homeschooling is in another 5 or 10 years.

 

[Soror]

We have a largish(for our area) entirely inclusive co-op, it is very important to me and other leaders that our group remains open to all. That being said we are currently meeting with a smaller group as well, naturally those kids are going to be closer. However, cliquishness and bullying are not acceptable for my kids or kids in the co-op, period. Kids can have some friends that are closer and learn to be friendly to others as well, those things are not mutually exclusive, it is just another skill we have to teach. Personally, I would be very unfulfilled socially if my only outlet was a large group without any personal time with a few close friends and I know I'm not alone so it shouldn't be surprising that is needed/wanted for kids as well. As a leader I try to make new moms welcome, I make a point to introduce myself,my kids and other kids. I try to find matches for the moms and kids in terms of ages and interests. However, I'm but one women and us leaders are also quite busy putting these things on with little help and these meetings are supposed to be outlets for us as well, so I'm sure I've not lived up to that standard at times, although I try, I'm human. When I first started there were a few leaders that were really unapproachable, so I've been really sensitive to this but we just cannot be everything to everybody.

[Matryoshka]

Co-ops can cause confusion in the homeschool community and clarifying it ruffles feathers.  No, sending your child to a co-op for someone else to give instruction while you supervise homework is not the same as homeschooling them in that subject. This by the way, wasn't what co-ops originally were.  They used to be true co-operatives where all the parents shared a small part of the teaching. Now it's being used to mean one person teaching other people's kids voluntarily or for pay which is very different. I have no problem with it, but it's a private class, not a co-op as in cooperative. Saying co-op should mean responsibility for teaching on the part of the participants' parents.

 

This is still what it means.  It's a co-operative.  Sounds like the term is being mis-used in some parts.  The only things that are called co-ops in my area, are in fact cooperatives.  Where the moms teach.  The one I finally (very reluctantly) joined does have some outside instructors, but they are an extra fee, and it's almost never more than one class out of about 20 offered.  The rest are taught by moms, or dads, or sometimes fellow students.

 

We have a few of those places where you can drop off and other people teach your kids (or not - a few of them are more like have others unschool your kids).  They are usually called something like Learning centers or Tutorials or they just have a name, like Think Tank or Northstar.  No one thinks of them as or calls them co-ops here.  Because they aren't.  Also a nice option to have? Yes.  Are they co-ops? No.

 

[Laurel-in-CA]

I haven't found charter schools have a clue how to foster community. Yes, they offer on-campus classes for the kids, but do they have a place for parents or siblings? No. Do they listen to parents more than classroom public schools do? Not in my experience. Over the past 10 years or so, which is the length of my charter experience, those schools have gotten much more bureaucratic, much less flexible, much more focused on recordkeeping *according to state standards* and much tighter on funds. I will be glad to be done with charters altogether when my 3rd child finishes high school this spring. Child #4, hopefully, will not need that silliness.

 

Co-ops that are mom-driven have been good for us, but I have an increasingly difficult time fitting into their plans just because I want to go the way that seems best for my kid. I want to choose the curriculum, not buy and follow what somebody else has chosen. I am willing to teach what I have chosen, for ex., in logic, but I can't find enough other folks who *want* to do it in order to make it worth our while. That's frustrating!

 

On the other hand, our current Friday park day has been meeting for 20-plus years at the same park, same time. It's had moments of co-op over the years, and that's an option right now mostly for those with little kids who want fun classes in the morning, but the park hang-out remains more or less the heart of things. I would say we're fairly academic @ home, but Friday is our release valve, for mother and daughter, and we keep it pretty consistently.

[myfunnybunch]

I just want things to be clearly labeled and legally protected.  I kind of like the term "outsourcing" or "private tutoring" for these resources.  Anyone else have a term they use or like?

 

This part jumped out at me. I am genuinely curious about differentiating between different labels and legal protections for homeschooling defined only as courses taught by the parent in the home.

Are you saying that a homeschooling family who outsources classes they aren't comfortable teaching at home (ex: foreign language or a lab science course) should not have the same legal labels or protections, or that those subjects would require a separate legal classification as a different type of schooling from homeschooling, or ....well, I'm not really sure what I'm asking. Maybe I am confused?

 

It seems to me that keeping the legal definition of homeschooling broader would offer more protection and less headache trying to sort out where one fits into a variety of definitions and options.

 

Cat

[HS Mom in NC]

This part jumped out at me. I am genuinely curious about differentiating between different labels and legal protections for homeschooling defined only as courses taught by the parent in the home.

Are you saying that a homeschooling family who outsources classes they aren't comfortable teaching at home (ex: foreign language or a lab science course) should not have the same legal labels or protections, or that those subjects would require a separate legal classification as a different type of schooling from homeschooling, or ....well, I'm not really sure what I'm asking. Maybe I am confused?

 

It seems to me that keeping the legal definition of homeschooling broader would offer more protection and less headache trying to sort out where one fits into a variety of definitions and options.

 

Cat

 

Here is AZ homeschoolers are legally required to teach reading, writing, math, social studies and science. When someone is charged with educational neglect (which has to do with core subjects, not extra curricular subjects) who is at fault if all of it is outsourced? I'm talking about parents who have turned in a homeschooling affidavit but whose kids go from co-op to co-op for everything all week and teach nothing at the co-op or at home. Some of you may not be experiencing this, but we are here. I should've been clearer and explained that.  Sorry.   Do they fit the legal definition of homeschooler? Should they legally register as private school students? What if parents sign their kids up for co-ops but aren't attending regularly?  Are they really truant (as opposed to legally truant) when mom isn't teaching those subjects at home?

 

We already have problems here with people claiming to homeschool but their kids are really under the radar (no affidavit filed) and sometimes they've even turning in homeschool affidavits while no actual schooling is happening in the home.  When those stories hit the press there's a renewed outcry for homeschooling oversight and regulation.  Then all these and other education related issues start being discussed.  The root of the issue is whether or not the US government can and should require every child be taught certain things.  If so, then educational neglect has to be defined.  Once it's defined then you have to decide who will be prosecuted when a child has been educationally neglected. Who caused it to happen?  Co-ops where the parent doesn't teach or ones that are low quality bring up these issues too.  Aren't they a form of private education?  Are they homeschooling? What if a child attends them and isn't getting adequate instruction?  Who will be held accountable when the neighbors or relatives report them to the authorities accusing them of educational neglect? What if the parent isn't teaching the child the core subject and stops taking the child to the co-op? 

 

 There have been soft rumblings here for years that unschoolers aren't homeschoolers because even they will tell you they're not, but homeschooling laws apply to them.  Should they? If the law shouldn't mandate unschoolers cover all those subjects, is it fair that it mandates it for homeschoolers? If so then the law needs to be rewritten to say so. If anyone can let their children choose to pursue their own interests that don't include the subjects in AZ homeschooling laws, why have a law mandating anything at all?

 

[JustEm]

Can all you wonderful people who just want a once a month support group at the park come move to DE?  Home schooling is huge here but the majority of the families I have met who home school are in some sort of co op. I don't need to out source academics, and hope to never have to.  If it weren't for my siblings living so close I'd have no home schooling support system.

[swellmomma]

I've not ever seen a child shut out by any other kids at our co-op.  If a kid wants to play red rover with the other kids, then all he/she has to do is walk up and join in.   If for some reason my kids were being shut out by a group of children, I would help them find and establish their own group of friends.  This past year I held monthly craft days at my home for 6 -8 year old girls to help one of my kids find and establish friendships.  It has worked beautifully and she now has a fun group of friends that play together often.  Although I am sure they exist in some places, I have never seen a clique in a homeschool group. 

Consistent friendship and the establishment of good relationships is far more important that the appearence of cliquishness (that doesn't actually exsist.)  If someone isn't going to take the time to investigate the group and help their child find some new friends and integrate, then that is their problem, not the rest of the group.  It takes time and work to make friends, you have to be willing to get out their and invest yourself to make it work.

I agree with you to an extent though we have had our share of out right shunning (as in being flat out told we weren't welcome).  THat never happened in our groups in the city, everyone was so welcoming and understanding of children's differences.  Out here is a very different.  When we first moved here we joined the one and only homeschool support group in the region (people drive an hour to come to meetings which fortunately are only 15 minutes away from me).  After our first and only time at an event with the kids we were told to no longer come to anything with the kids.  I can go to the parent only meetings once a month if I want but my kids are not welcome. The reasoning? They felt my boys impulsivity and hyperness was a bad example for the other kids.  That day all the kids had a mud fight in the backyard while the parents visited.  It was started by the host family's son.  When that mom walked in the backyard to tell them to knock it off my oldest threw one more mud ball at her son, she got mad and then her son proceeded to say my son started the whole danged thing (I saw through the window her son threw the first mud ball).  Anyway, they got ticked and I got an email from the organizer saying they were no longer welcome.  We later had issues with this boy in scouts because he kept telling leaders my son was swearing and bullying (my then 9 year old), so son would get yelled at without ever having a chance to say it never happened.  I witnessed one account, boy was bugging ds, so ds told him to shut up and go away, boy ran right to leader and said son was swearing and bullying.  Apparently in his house shut up is treated as a swear.  The bullying was because son said go away.  I called the leader out on it (I was also a leader at the time) and he still reprimanded ds anyway saying he was being rude and blah blah. At any rate, the point was it came down to this one family, but we are in a very small town, that mom is best friends with the leader and she didn't feel my kids were good enough to be around her precious, especially after she found out about ds16s mood swings (before he was Dx and treated for bipolar) so my kids are left out of a lot of events and such unless I plan them myself. I have spent 4 years trying to befriend these ladies partly for my own need of support but also for the sake of my kids, after 4 years I still only hear about when and where a meeting will be held if I specifically ask, we still get excluded from lots etc.  Like most other things small town it is hard to break in, and after years you are still seen as an outsider, and in my case the wrong kind of outsider (single mom, working instead of sahm, kids with issues, not uber conservative, actually teach not unschool etc)

[myfunnybunch]

Here is AZ homeschoolers are legally required to teach reading, writing, math, social studies and science. When someone is charged with educational neglect (which has to do with core subjects, not extra curricular subjects) who is at fault if all of it is outsourced? I'm talking about parents who have turned in a homeschooling affidavit but whose kids go from co-op to co-op for everything all week and teach nothing at the co-op or at home. Some of you may not be experiencing this, but we are here. I should've been clearer and explained that.  Sorry.   Do they fit the legal definition of homeschooler? Should they legally register as private school students? What if parents sign their kids up for co-ops but aren't attending regularly?  Are they really truant (as opposed to legally truant) when mom isn't teaching those subjects at home?

 

We already have problems here with people claiming to homeschool but their kids are really under the radar (no affidavit filed) and sometimes they've even turning in homeschool affidavits while no actual schooling is happening in the home.  When those stories hit the press there's a renewed outcry for homeschooling oversight and regulation.  Then all these and other education related issues start being discussed.  The root of the issue is whether or not the US government can and should require every child be taught certain things.  If so, then educational neglect has to be defined.  Once it's defined then you have to decide who will be prosecuted when a child has been educationally neglected. Who caused it to happen?  Co-ops where the parent doesn't teach or ones that are low quality bring up these issues too.  Aren't they a form of private education?  Are they homeschooling? What if a child attends them and isn't getting adequate instruction?  Who will be held accountable when the neighbors or relatives report them to the authorities accusing them of educational neglect? What if the parent isn't teaching the child the core subject and stops taking the child to the co-op? 

 

 There have been soft rumblings here for years that unschoolers aren't homeschoolers because even they will tell you they're not, but homeschooling laws apply to them.  Should they? If the law shouldn't mandate unschoolers cover all those subjects, is it fair that it mandates it for homeschoolers? If so then the law needs to be rewritten to say so. If anyone can let their children choose to pursue their own interests that don't include the subjects in AZ homeschooling laws, why have a law mandating anything at all?

 

 

Thanks for your reply. I can see where my confusion lies, as I am in a state that doesn't require us to teach particular subjects. We are only required to register and to test our children in the same mandatory testing years/grades that public schools must test. So there's no practical legal benefit (or drawback) to making a distinction between courses taught in the home or outsourced courses.

 

Cat

[G5052]

There has definitely been a shift since we started 16 years ago.  

 

Homeschooling is an industry now.

 

Back then, we generated a lot of our own teaching materials -- pulling things together to create studies or finding treasures in used library sales. There was curriculum, but not at all like today. Just look at Latin. My oldest started in 5th grade with Henle b/c that's what was out there.  We were to start slowly and work through it. Then Memoria Press developed some Latin, then others published theirs and now there are multiple choices including online classes.

 

Back then, we cooked up our own classes.  "Hey, you want to get together and study astronomy?" And a couple of families would pull together for a few months to do some science. Or geography or history. Now, co-ops and classes and multi-state groups have proliferated with a huge presence in the homeschool community.  I don't think that's bad at all (in fact there are lots of perks), but it is different. Even the just-published Veritas Press we used back in 2000 is now a huge online operation with an accredited academy and homeschooling groups across the USofA. 

 

Back then, most homeschoolers started at home.  Now, kids are pulled out of school and many (most?) go straight into another structured program from a university model to a 2-day a week program to huge co-ops to online charters and virtual academies.  Much of that is driven by the reasons kids are being pulled out. The reason why many kids are being homeschooled has shifted. 

 

The economy is different now. I saw a huge shift in how homeschooling was done when the economy tanked in 2008.  Many, many families needed mom to generate income and so that meant shifting some or all of the schooling to an outside source. It also meant pulling kids from an expensive private school and finding a homeschool option. 

 

It's easy to pine away for the simpleness of the old days. But, I would far rather home school through high school with the resources available now than 16 years ago.  JMO. 

 

Lisa

 

Yes, same here.  We started 14 years ago, and were part of a large group that had all kinds of things going, and then joined another that did fun enrichment classes.  The first one is largely gone now, down to pretty much just a local email group.  We left when they started requiring a statement of faith that we couldn't agree to.  The second group changed to paid classes, and is still going.

 

And I'm one of the moms who had to shift some of the teaching and am glad for it.  I could not work full-time like I do now and get in the level of courses we need.  I just don't have time to handle AP-level classes and foreign languages for high school.  Sending them to the classroom wasn't an option, although most of our friends in the immediate area that we came up with sent them to public school in 8th or 9th grade.

 

I'm glad that we came up through it when we did.  The early days were fun and relaxing.  We mostly stayed home when they were little.  I do feel sorry for the little kids who are dragged off to this and that now, but that's a choice people are making.

[Ellie]

I agree with you to an extent though we have had our share of out right shunning (as in being flat out told we weren't welcome).  THat never happened in our groups in the city, everyone was so welcoming and understanding of children's differences.  Out here is a very different.  When we first moved here we joined the one and only homeschool support group in the region (people drive an hour to come to meetings which fortunately are only 15 minutes away from me).  After our first and only time at an event with the kids we were told to no longer come to anything with the kids.  I can go to the parent only meetings once a month if I want but my kids are not welcome. The reasoning? They felt my boys impulsivity and hyperness was a bad example for the other kids.  That day all the kids had a mud fight in the backyard while the parents visited.  It was started by the host family's son.  When that mom walked in the backyard to tell them to knock it off my oldest threw one more mud ball at her son, she got mad and then her son proceeded to say my son started the whole danged thing (I saw through the window her son threw the first mud ball).  Anyway, they got ticked and I got an email from the organizer saying they were no longer welcome.  We later had issues with this boy in scouts because he kept telling leaders my son was swearing and bullying (my then 9 year old), so son would get yelled at without ever having a chance to say it never happened.  I witnessed one account, boy was bugging ds, so ds told him to shut up and go away, boy ran right to leader and said son was swearing and bullying.  Apparently in his house shut up is treated as a swear.  The bullying was because son said go away.  I called the leader out on it (I was also a leader at the time) and he still reprimanded ds anyway saying he was being rude and blah blah. At any rate, the point was it came down to this one family, but we are in a very small town, that mom is best friends with the leader and she didn't feel my kids were good enough to be around her precious, especially after she found out about ds16s mood swings (before he was Dx and treated for bipolar) so my kids are left out of a lot of events and such unless I plan them myself. I have spent 4 years trying to befriend these ladies partly for my own need of support but also for the sake of my kids, after 4 years I still only hear about when and where a meeting will be held if I specifically ask, we still get excluded from lots etc.  Like most other things small town it is hard to break in, and after years you are still seen as an outsider, and in my case the wrong kind of outsider (single mom, working instead of sahm, kids with issues, not uber conservative, actually teach not unschool etc)

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

[Wabi Sabi]

A support group might or might not have a park day; where the weather is nice almost year-round, as in Southern California, monthly park days are pretty much on-going. But they're not "play dates." I've never done a "play date." I'm thinking that's a term that is a hold-over from MOPS or some other pre-school-age kind of group. 

...

A support group is not a "play group," either. :-)

You seem to really not like the phrase "play date," but I can't help but wonder if it's just a matter of semantics? Your girls never did a "play date," but what happens when a friend who does not live in your neighborhood (thus the need to set something up and arrange to transport the children) calls to say, "Hello, Miss Ellie! My children miss your girls. Haven't seen you in a while and we'd love to get together. Is there an afternoon later this week that your girls can come over? Oh, you're free on Friday? Great! What time do you want to get together?" 

 

In my world, that is a play date. My children do not need play dates to go outside and run around with the neighborhood kids, but if they want to see their friends who do not live in our immediate area it takes a phone call (or text these days) to make arrangements for them to get together. Does it matter if one chooses to call it a "play date" vs "making plans to go over to a friend's house?"

[Mimm]

I'm in my fifth year homeschooling my kids. But I was homeschooled from 3rd grade. And I like homeschooling now. There are so many options, so many resources my moth er didn't have available to her. I'm kind of surprised at the contempt some people have for co-ops. My daughter loves or co-op so much and because of that I might as well put her in school? Our co-op is in its 21st year so "back in the day" not everyone was just happy with once a month park days.

 

I know my educational experience would have been enriched by being part of a quality co-op when I was a child.

[Wabi Sabi]

There are several homeschooling groups in our area, all of which have a weekly park date. We're involved in two such groups. 

The first group is larger, communicates via a Yahoo groups email list, has weekly park days that are the same time/place every week (same park in the summer, a community center's gymnasium in the winter), and is open to anyone. The group does not offer classes or co-ops, but parents often share links and information about other classes & opportunities on the Yahoo list. They do host non-competitive academic fairs three times a year (science fair, biography fair, geography fair), someone organized a spelling bee last year, and at least a few times each year a parent will arrange a field trip and open it to anyone in the group who'd like to sign up for it. Sometimes families in the group do form their own co-ops that they generally do out of their homes, but the co-ops are not officially affiliated with the group. Perhaps this is seen as "cliquish," and we don't participate in any, but I do understand the need to limit who signs up for such things. There's just a limited amount of space that one has in their own home,  and it certainly helps if you know that the other families in your group are on the same page with expectations for academic rigor, goals, etc. 

The second group is a smaller group of moms who, from my understanding, were like-minded moms with babies/toddlers/preschoolers who had a weekly playgroup. Over the years it has evolved into an informal group of homeschooling familes with new families being added to the email list fairly often. They get together once a week for a park day as well, but they do change location from week to week. It's never difficult to find them though, because they send out email every single week to let everyone know where they'll be meeting. Any member of the group is always welcome to suggest that week's location. We don't actually attend this group very often because of our schedule, but from what I can tell it's just a group of moms and kids who get together for park day and who occasionally share info via email. There don't seem to be organized field trips or other events. I have noted, with irony, that they still call themselves a "playgroup." Makes no difference to me, but it does always make me smile wryly since there are those on some of the homeschooling forums like this one who really, really dislike that phrase, but once again, I'd argue that it's just a matter of semantics. Playgroup or support group, it's still a group of homeschooling parents who get together at the park on a regular basis to hang out and talk while the kids play. 

[SilverMoon]

On 10/27/2014 at 10:41 AM, mama27 said:

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Guest]

I see wonderful opportunities for teens in my area that did not exist when I had teens.

 

I keep catching myself thinking, "Ooooh! My kid would LOVE that!" and the remembering that my kid grew up and moved away years ago.

 

It's a good thing. I'm pretty sure my extrovert would have homeschooled all the way through if these opportunities would have been available for him instead of going to public school for high school.

 

He stopped going to Park day when he was 14. I see 17 year olds attending regularly now, I just wish the parents would be nice to each other and not bicker over trivia. ;)

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

Here play date means having to schedule a pre-arranged time to get together so they kids can play together with someone outside the neighborhood. It also means a non-structured play time.

 

Support groups vary widely here.  Sometimes they are homeschooling topic related and sometimes they're just social time for the moms to chat about whatever pleases them.

 

I think there's a big need for homeschooling convention workshops and books to cover in detail the pros and cons of living in smaller and or more rural communities.  I hear a lot about the benefits of country living but I don't usually hear the drawbacks of having far fewer in person homeschooling resources available.  I'm hearing more and more about people who have one small town homeschooling group available and how much they dislike it and how few homeschoolers are around them.  I think very few of today's homeschoolers are satisfied with that (I would certainly dislike it) where as yesteryear's homeschoolers were at peace with it because there were so few of them. Is this a void in homeschooling information in general? Are others hearing the pros and cons discussed frankly?

[Momto4inSoCal]

So in some area's there are co-ops where you drop your kids off for every subject? I haven't seen that at here in CA. Maybe I'm to new to the homeschooling community. Unless you are talking high school. I know parents that do college classes for their high schoolers so they get dual credits. No one calls that a co-op though and I doubt any government agency would have an issue with a high school student being taught by a professor. I think it's great that we have options now. I know co-ops aren't for everybody just like regular park days aren't for everybody. I don't really know why moms like to tear each other down for their choices. 

[liberty5_3000]

My mom started homeschooling us in 1994 and even back then the nearby homeschool groups were all somewhat structured.  There were no weekly co-ops in the area until I hit high school several years later, but the homeschool groups were always a monthly gathering with some sort of theme/activity all planned out.  I don't remember any park days, even back then.  Now that I have young children I can't find anything like the homeschool groups from back then, just co-ops and I'm not the least bit interested in any of them.  I don't know many homeschoolers with time to just hang out at a park, their lives are very full.

[HS Mom in NC]

So in some area's there are co-ops where you drop your kids off for every subject?

 

No, every day you go to a different co-op that teaches a different subject. Sometimes 2 different co-ops in a day.

 

[Matryoshka]

No, every day you go to a different co-op that teaches a different subject. Sometimes 2 different co-ops in a day.

 

 

How are those coops?  That sounds like what I'd call "classes".

[LaMere Academy]

I agree, I've been hs'ing for 14 years and the original group I joined was a great group of families and our main thing was park meetings where everyone talked and the kids played.  We also had plenty of field trips.  A new leader took over and changed the group dramatically making it a non-profit organization with membership dues and a co-op.  I was upset but still enjoyed the group.  We later moved and the group we joined in our new state wasn't at all what we were used to and we have since left the group.  My oldest two are graduated though and my younger ones are older and didn't click with anyone in the group here anyway.

I long for a group where it's just moms at the park again where ALL the moms talk to each other and there's not cliques where people show up and they're not even spoken to.  It used to be homeschoolers were very friendly and maybe it's just my experience here but I've heard from a few moms that came to something and no one talked to them so they didn't come back.

[HS Mom in NC]

How are those coops?  That sounds like what I'd call "classes".

 

Yeah, we discussed that upthread.  Many people here use the term for both co-operatives and paid or voluntarily taught classes. That's why I always ask or specify, to avoid confusion. As much as I'd like to be the language police and fight it, I'm too old to start pissing in the wind. The meanings of words change sometimes.

[Ellie]

I agree, I've been hs'ing for 14 years and the original group I joined was a great group of families and our main thing was park meetings where everyone talked and the kids played.  We also had plenty of field trips.  A new leader took over and changed the group dramatically making it a non-profit organization with membership dues and a co-op.  I was upset but still enjoyed the group.  We later moved and the group we joined in our new state wasn't at all what we were used to and we have since left the group.  My oldest two are graduated though and my younger ones are older and didn't click with anyone in the group here anyway.

 

I long for a group where it's just moms at the park again where ALL the moms talk to each other and there's not cliques where people show up and they're not even spoken to.  It used to be homeschoolers were very friendly and maybe it's just my experience here but I've heard from a few moms that came to something and no one talked to them so they didn't come back.

 

The first support group I was in--which was the first support group in that area--was happily moving along with its primary activity being a monthly park day. All of us enjoyed each other's company, children and parents alike, and life was good. Then one of the mothers told us about some other hsers who were trying to help homeschoolers connect county-wide--they already had a newsletter and whatnot--and invited us to be part of the network. We thought that would be a great idea. Then she said that these other homeschoolers suggested that someone be sort of a contact person for our group and she said she'd be happy to do that, so we let her. :-) For the most part, nothing changed at that point, except that we found homeschoolers in other parts of the county, and we thought that was wonderful....except for the part where she started making announcements at the beginning of park day, which could take upwards of half an hour, telling us about things that were in the newsletter to which all of us subscribed. Then she said she thought it would be a good idea if the children could share something at the beginning of park day (in addition to her announcements), anything from showing a favorite toy to telling a joke. Each child who shared something would get a goody from the treasure chest...and who would like to be in charge of the treasure chest? ::crickets:: And then she said she thought it would be a good idea to sing happy birthday for all of the children who had birthdays that month, which sounded good, and all of the parents could bring cupcakes to share, which also sounded good...and who was going to be in charge of calling people each month to remind them to bring cupcakes? ::crickets:: AND THEN she organized field trips, which were AGE SEGREGATED. I asked her what she thought we should do when some of our children couldn't go, and she said that we should be able to work out some sort of childcare with the other parents...

 

Huh.

 

So she burned out after a year, and another woman became leader--I don't know how that was decided--and she was even more "organized" than the first woman. She started reading all of the details of all of the field trips after the announcements and the sharing time and the birthday singing...it could be an hour or more before we actually had time to do what we had actually come to do: talk to one another.

 

I left not long after that.