Is there not an Ebola in Dallas thread yet?

[TeacherZee]

I stopped reading on page 12 as I have to go take my high school students on a field trip to a chocolate and baking fare (love my job today), but I wanted to weigh in on the ill kids in school topic. We have a big problem here with one day absences. As most classes her meet twice a week for 90 minutes a missed day can mean a lot of missed info for the student. However as long as the student's parent(s) have phoned them in as sick there is little we can do. A student with repeated illnesses might be required to bring in doctors notes for every illness from day one. All this to say that I can partially understand school districts that have strict attendance policies, but NOT for K students, sheesh.

[Slartibartfast]

The doctors who have gotten it, when  interviewed apparently say that all protocols were followed perfectly, with no accidents. So apparently it is more easily spread, by some means, than the official belief/statements about the spread suggests.

But when we were discussing that there was also photos with the articles showing them washing off with hoses and buckets.

 

If everyone is pooping in the same hole in the ground and there isn't a real place to throw all the vomit people are producing and no real laundry facilities that is MUCH different than how it would be in the US.

 

Some of those hospitals are just tents in the middle of nowhere.

[Guest]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/halt-all-flights-and-all-west-african-countries-people-have-been-exposed-ebola-virus/HdVjr2Xt

 

Enough said.

[Guest]

But when we were discussing that there was also photos with the articles showing them washing off with hoses and buckets.

 

If everyone is pooping in the same hole in the ground and there isn't a real place to throw all the vomit people are producing and no real laundry facilities that is MUCH different than how it would be in the US.

 

Some of those hospitals are just tents in the middle of nowhere.

 

Is that any different than what is happening in our developed country with ONE patient?

[Slartibartfast]

Is that any different than what is happening in our developed country with ONE patient?

 

I believe Dallas has modern sewer and plumbing facilities.

[Guest]

I believe Dallas has modern sewer and plumbing facilities.

 

That wasn't my point.  The way they are cleaning that apartment complex is worse than what I've seen going on in Africa.  

[Slartibartfast]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/halt-all-flights-and-all-west-african-countries-people-have-been-exposed-ebola-virus/HdVjr2Xt

 

Enough said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/tom-frieden-travel-ban-ebola_n_5922618.html

 

Barring all incoming flights from Ebola-hit countries in West Africa might seem like the best way to prevent an outbreak of the virus in the United States, but doing so would actually hurt efforts to curb the outbreak in the long run, Tom Frieden, M.D., MPH, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said today (Oct. 2).

 

“If we take actions that seem like they may work, they may be the kind of solution to a complex problem that is quick, simple and wrong,†said Frieden in a press conference. “The approach of isolating a country is that it’s going to make it harder to get help into that country."

[Guest]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/tom-frieden-travel-ban-ebola_n_5922618.html

 

 

I realize there are different opinions on the issue. However, I was accused of being "hysterical", but stopping flights is a common response to what is going on.  Bottom line is that doing so would have prevented what is going on in the U.S. right now.  

[Slartibartfast]

I realize there are different opinions on the issue. However, I was accused of being "hysterical", but stopping flights is a common response to what is going on.  Bottom line is that doing so would have prevented what is going on in the U.S. right now.

Some countries have already suspended flights to the area.

 

Stopping more flights would hinder relief efforts. The US currently has medical staff, aid workers, soldiers and other people working on solving this crisis. Stopping all flights will prevent them from rotating staff in and out which will overburden the workers that are in place.

 

Doctors without Borders rotates staff every four weeks they need to be able to do that. Soldiers need to get in and out. Supplies need to be flown in.

 

There are already reductions in flights to the region and reducing that further will only prevent those who are actually working to stop this crises from doing their jobs, thus it would only make things WORSE rather than help anything.

 

I will sign a petition NOT to stop flights to the region because I care about these people being able to do their jobs.

[Colleen]

It all adds up to..this was on purpose, and with a blatant disregard for everyone else.

 

Oh, for god's sake.  Seriously?  The plethora of sound bites based on who knows what all add up such that we can ascertain a factual bottom line?  If  you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn calling your name.

 

The news reports are all over the place regarding what actually happened.  I would urge caution (to all of us) about drawing any conclusions or stating anything firmly until there's a little more time for things to get sorted out.

 

Ya think? ;-)

 

Since "the authorities" are saying it is not very contagious except via close body fluid contact, that you cannot get it just being in the same air space, he might have thought he was not exposed. It sounds like he was just in the same air space plus had contact to help carry the person, but no body fluid to body fluid contact as one would normally understand that idea.

 

Exactly.  This points up why confusion/misunderstanding/mishandling is to be expected.  On the one hand our own government is offering pat assurances ~ and on the other, people on the receiving end of those assurances are ready to lambast this man, in hindsight, for not arriving at conclusions they themselves would be hard-pressed to understand or identify.  Tra la la!

[Guest]

Some countries have already suspended flights to the area.

 

Stopping more flights would hinder relief efforts. The US currently has medical staff, aid workers, soldiers and other people working on solving this crisis. Stopping any flights will prevent them from rotating staff in and out which will overburden the workers that are in place.

 

Doctors without Borders rotates staff every four weeks they need to be able to do that. Soldiers need to get in and out. Supplies need to be flown in.

 

There are already reductions in flights to the region and reducing that further will only prevent those who are actually working to stop this crises from doing their jobs, thus it would only make things WORSE rather than help anything.

 

We're not getting into that again.  I've already explained that.  Yawn.

[Mrs Mungo]

I realize there are different opinions on the issue. However, I was accused of being "hysterical", but stopping flights is a common response to what is going on. Bottom line is that doing so would have prevented what is going on in the U.S. right now.

Posting a whitehouse.gov petition proves nothing. Do you know how many signatures the Death Star one received?

[Slartibartfast]

We're not getting into that again.  I've already explained that.  Yawn.

I quoted the CDC director and was explaining what he said.

 

You just explained away the DIRECTOR OF THE CDC and said *yawn*?

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Your opinion and that of the whopping 90 people who signed some crackpot petition on whitehouse.gov does not actually have more weight than the Director of the CDC.

[Guest]

Posting a whitehouse.gov petition proves nothing. Do you know how many signatures the Death Star one received?

 

It proves I'm not alone in my thinking.  Look at the comments under all these news articles.  People are expressing the same sentiment.  

 

I quoted the CDC director.

 

You just explained away the DIRECTOR OF THE CDC and said *yawn*

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Sigh.  I've already explained I didn't think aid workers should not be able to go help.  I was saying *yawn* because I'm so tired of explaining that over and over and over and over and over... 

[Slartibartfast]

It proves I'm not alone in my thinking.  Look at the comments under all these news articles.  People are expressing the same sentiment.  

 

 

Sigh.  I've already explained I didn't think aid workers should not be able to go help.  I was saying *yawn* because I'm so tired of explaining that over and over and over and over and over...

They cannot go help if there are no flights.

[Mrs Mungo]

It proves I'm not alone in my thinking. Look at the comments under all these news articles. People are expressing the same sentiment.

 

Errr...I am not seeing a logical conclusion? *Nobody* said that only you would/could/did come up with such an idea. What are you trying to prove?

[Pen]

But when we were discussing that there was also photos with the articles showing them washing off with hoses and buckets.

 

Do you mean in Liberia or in Dallas where the patient threw up? Seems to be the way it is handled in both places.

 

If everyone is pooping in the same hole in the ground

 

You assume doctors and patients in isolation are using the same hole in the ground?

 

and there isn't a real place to throw all the vomit people are producing and no real laundry facilities that is MUCH different than how it would be in the US.

 

The Dallas hospital also apparently has not figured out how to get rid of contaminated materials, as of earlier today reports.

 

Some of those hospitals are just tents in the middle of nowhere.

 

Or you could look at it as the doctors who deal with overseas epidemic situations are the tops in their fields for knowing how to handle such situations. Certainly that is true of Doctors without Borders (which also seems to be amongst the least hit so far with cases in staff members), but also of others to some extent. I have a relative who has been an overseas emergency response medic. They assume, he said, everyone they come into contact with is potentially sick and suit up and mask and goggle and wash and disinfect themselves accordingly. He has not been doing this work for some years now, however.

[mathnerd]

 

If he really thought he was exposed, even if he was trying to get out to where there would be better care, I am not sure he would have been putting his family at risk as much as he did. If he were trying to get care for himself and suspected ebola, he might have told the doctors etc. that he had been in Liberia and so on multiple times, not just told that to one intake nurse, so as to get care for himself as much and as soon as possible from his first trip to hospital. Or even gone sooner at the first sign of fever.

 

 

I find it highly impossible that someone who had lived in Monrovia for the whole duration of the ebola outbreak and had seen people all around him falling dead from it and has a smart phone on which he reads news and watched local TV where there is endless coverage of the disease as well as government propaganda on how to prevent the spread of the disease did not know how the disease spreads.

 

I question this patient's motivation in fleeing his country - I think that he knew what he was doing and did not care that he was endangering many, many people in the process. His nephew was on NBC TV demanding that the government give this man the ZMapp drug that was used on the American doctors who got ill in Liberia. I am not sure why he thinks that he can make demands while I am sure that the government is doing it's best for his relative. And the ZMapp drug was provided by the pharma company and not the CDC because the CDC has not approved it for usage yet. And the pharma company ran out of the experimental dosage it had in stock. I am guessing (from reading news articles) that the relatives told the man that he could get the ZMapp drug if he landed in the US and he made his plans accordingly. I also think that they believed that their family was safe because this is the US and they can get the ZMapp drug in case of exposure or infection. 

 

I hope he has not infected anyone else. I hope that he gets cured and we hear no more about ebola for a while.

[Guest]

They cannot go help if there are no flights.

 

Really?  You can't come up with a solution to that?  This is boring.

 

Errr...I am not seeing a logical conclusion? *Nobody* said that only you would/could/did come up with such an idea. What are you trying to prove?

 

Uh, that it wasn't so far-fetched and hysterical?  

[Slartibartfast]

Really?  You can't come up with a solution to that?  This is boring.

 

 

Uh, that it wasn't so far-fetched and hysterical?

What do you mean? Did you read my link? The CDC Director said that would make charter flights more difficult as well. How do you think they ought to travel? Can you come up with a better solution to the problem than the Director of the CDC? He seemed to think it was a problem. You should call him and let him know you have a solution.

 

 

People say far-fetched and hysterical things on the radio every day.

 

There are nearly 2,000 signatures to make Halloween a Federal Holiday.

[Mrs Mungo]

Uh, that it wasn't so far-fetched and hysterical?

I reject the notion that a WH.gov petition proves that in any way. Have you seen that preppers show?

[Slartibartfast]

I reject the notion that a WH.gov petition proves that in any way. Have you seen that preppers show?

There is a preppers show?

 

 

UGH! I looked it up! It is on NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC!?!? Seriously!? Just another example of why I canceled cable.

[Guest]

Whatever, guys.  You don't seem to understand people have differences in opinions and it's not right to insult the person with the different POV.

[Slartibartfast]

Or you could look at it as the doctors who deal with overseas epidemic situations are the tops in their fields for knowing how to handle such situations. Certainly that is true of Doctors without Borders (which also seems to be amongst the least hit so far with cases in staff members), but also of others to some extent. I have a relative who has been an overseas emergency response medic. They assume, he said, everyone they come into contact with is potentially sick and suit up and mask and goggle and wash and disinfect themselves accordingly. He has not been doing this work for some years now, however.

 

I didn't question the doctors or said they didn't know what they were doing, I was saying conditions in the field, in a third world country that has been plagued by civil war, would not have the same infrastructure that would help in the prevention of the spread of the disease.

 

I don't have any clue regarding the restroom facilities, the media hasn't given that information.

[Slartibartfast]

Whatever, guys.  You don't seem to understand people have differences in opinions and it's not right to insult the person with the different POV.

How is saying "yawn" and "this is boring" not insulting?

 

I do actually see both of those things as rude.

[Guest]

How is saying "yawn" and "this is boring" not insulting?

 

I do actually see both of those things as rude.

 Sorry.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Whatever, guys.  You don't seem to understand people have differences in opinions and it's not right to insult the person with the different POV.

I can't understand what you want.  We understand what your view is.  We understand that your POV is different from ours.  We understand that you're not going to change your point of view.  OK.  

[Mrs Mungo]

I can't understand what you want. We understand what your view is. We understand that your POV is different from ours. We understand that you're not going to change your point of view. OK.

AND I can believe that stopping all travel to and from the region is a gross overreaction without it being a personal insult.

 

I can also believe that a particular link doesn't prove what someone is trying to prove without personal insult intended. I have seen several experts give reasons why they aren't imposing large scale travel bans. I have listed several reasons that I think it is a bad idea. AND I can label something a bad idea without insisting anyone proposing it must be stupid or have reading comprehension problems (because those are personal insults).

[Aelwydd]

And from what we are learning about Texas, we think that the population would stay quarantined? ;)

 

I was teaching at a university that had measles outbreak in one of the dorms. Of course for measles there is an immunization and everyone under a certain age had to have it or produce their immunization card to demonstrate that they had had a booster within a certain time frame. Life cannot be completely disrupted for a "what if" scenario. Classes went on and the public health threat was contained.

Most native Texans couldn't fathom leaving Texas. That would mean touching Oklahoma's soil, Arkansas' soil, etc.

 

Don't worry, Ebola didn't evolve here, but it got here as fast as it could. It's not going anywhere.

[creekland]

No joke. I mean how many of us reasonably well educated English speakers on this board have learned that things we believed to be true about Ebola or H1N1 or vaccines or some other medical thing were wrong?

 

:iagree:  But of course this guy was supposed to know it all and exactly how to respond to it.

 

I've seen on here that people were saying the woman who died was turned away from the hospital because it was full.  What they fail to say is folks thought she was having a miscarriage and she was turned away from the maternity ward because it was full of ebola patients.

 

I doubt she'd have been sent away if they knew she had ebola.  NBC showed those wards and they were just adding more in (live on TV).

 

The taxi driver wouldn't have taken her if he knew she had ebola.  NBC also showed a man dying in the street as no one wanted to touch him.

 

But this guy should have known it all and what to do, etc.  I guess he had some sort of superpower.

 

I still think he didn't know to start with, found out afterward, went to the US (without symptoms) as a "just in case" deal, developed symptoms, went to the ER, and believed the medical folks who told him not to worry.

 

I'm not sure any of us would have done differently under the same circumstances to be honest - even leaving the ER being told all is fine.

 

This evening I heard on NBC news that the cameraman with Dr. Nancy Snyderman in Liberia has just tested positive for ebola and will be brought back to the US on a chartered flight.  If ebola is so hard to catch through casual contact how did he manage to get it?  

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/nbc-news-freelancer-africa-diagnosed-ebola-n217271

 

This is sad.  Besides the medical issues with their lives, we're losing our most factual (on the ground) source of info for that area.

 

NBC said the guy has been there for 3 years, but only recently started working for them.  He wanted to be right there to get the news story out to the world.  It wouldn't surprise me if he got up close and personal with those who were infected.  Their stories from there were incredibly up close - heading into the ebola ward and all.  I'm not happy he got infected, but I'm very thankful he was that dedicated.  I hope he survives and I hope the world doesn't forget.

[Aelwydd]

I realize there are different opinions on the issue. However, I was accused of being "hysterical", but stopping flights is a common response to what is going on. Bottom line is that doing so would have prevented what is going on in the U.S. right now.

Jinnah, you seem like a nice person, and I'm genuinely sorry that this thread has caused you some anxiety.

 

But here's the thing: you are comparing apples to oranges when you keep mentioning the progression of the disease in West Africa to the U.S.

 

In every aspect, the two situations diverge. People over there tend to nurse their infected loved ones, exposing them to a heavy viral load. Here, those infected are treated in a hospital.

 

Over there, those deceased are handled by loved ones for burial rites and preparation. Anyone here, would certainly not be embalming or handling the deceased.

 

Over there, access to clean water to wash hands, sanitation, and plumbing is inconsistent at best. Over here, most people can wash their hands and flush a toilet.

 

Over there, adequate care and support for sick patients is minimal. Over here, the main killers of Ebola, such as diarrhea, vomiting, and the compromised lining of the intestines leading to sepsis, and so forth have medical treatments that are very effective in minimizing these effects of the virus. Patients here would be on I.V. fluids, including electrolytes to balance p.H., and to help the body flush out the virus quickly; anti emeretics to counter nausea and reduce vomiting (and fluid loss); antibiotics to prevent secondary infections from damaged intestinal walls; constant care and monitoring to adjust medications and fluids as necessary.

 

Furthermore, most Americans would start out from a baseline of health that includes immunizations, and lack of exposure to parasites and other diseases because of just plain sanitation such as clean drinking water. They would not be fighting Ebola in addition to parasites, tuberculosis, HIV infections, malaria, and so forth. Also, they would be more likely to have adequate caloric intake, and a denser nutrient load.

 

In other words, the average Texan is not going into a fight with Ebola with a nutritional deficit, compounded a compromised immune system or comorbidity, living in a hut with dirt floors without running water or plumbing, without access to 24/7 nursing care in a facility that offers multiple palliative and symptomatic management, without a variety of specialists overseeing his or her care, outside a climate contolled building that protects from overheating or heat loss, and without the follow-up care during recovery to avoid falling prey to some opportunistic bug.

 

If I was living in an area where medical support and infrastructure was limited, then yes, I would seriously consider curtailing my activities. But that is not the case, and frankly, as regressive as this state may be in many areas (the hockey scene being foremost in my mind), it still qualifies as developed.

 

So, a part of me gets annoyed reading all your posts about how it's going to spread. It makes me feel as though you don't recognize that those of us living in the D/FW metroplex are not bereft of things like flushing toilets and funeral homes.

 

Please stop fixating on Ebola being here in Texas. I am not worried about it, and I live just outside of Lewisville. I work alongside several West Africans. I don't see evidence to support we are in a pending crisis. The entire context is just different from Sierra Leone, or Liberia, etc.

[Trish]

Some countries have already suspended flights to the area.

 

Stopping more flights would hinder relief efforts. The US currently has medical staff, aid workers, soldiers and other people working on solving this crisis. Stopping all flights will prevent them from rotating staff in and out which will overburden the workers that are in place.

 

Doctors without Borders rotates staff every four weeks they need to be able to do that. Soldiers need to get in and out. Supplies need to be flown in.

 

There are already reductions in flights to the region and reducing that further will only prevent those who are actually working to stop this crises from doing their jobs, thus it would only make things WORSE rather than help anything.

 

I will sign a petition NOT to stop flights to the region because I care about these people being able to do their jobs.

 

The U.S. military can still get there if commercial flights are stopped.

 

Right now I'm very concerned for the children of the Dallas area.

[Katy]

Time will tell, but I think it wouldn't hurt anyone to stock up on food supplies and masks/wipes "just in case."

 

If that's "freaking out," so be it.

 

It's always good to have emergency supplies on hand.  In this case, bleach would be more effective than wipes though.

 

And frankly, even if half of the people possibly exposed get it, it's unlikely to become a pandemic.

 

It's more likely the enterovirus that's going around and producing polio-like muscle weakness will be a problem.  It's been, what, 6 weeks and it's in 47 states?

[Pawz4me]

This evening I heard on NBC news that the cameraman with Dr. Nancy Snyderman in Liberia has just tested positive for ebola and will be brought back to the US on a chartered flight.  If ebola is so hard to catch through casual contact how did he manage to get it?  

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/nbc-news-freelancer-africa-diagnosed-ebola-n217271

 

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm missing any logical connection here.  The implication is that he's a cameraman for NBC News, so that means he wouldn't have any very close contact with the people he's living and working among?  No close contact with the Ebola patients he's filming?

[DawnM]

Oh, but good news! You can watch it online.  Hulu even has a few episodes!

 

I watched two episodes.  A bunch of complete alarmists with "the sky is falling" mentality who cannot cope with real life with real people.

 

Dawn

 

 

There is a preppers show?


UGH! I looked it up! It is on NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC!?!? Seriously!? Just another example of why I canceled cable.

 

[DawnM]

What have you seen going on in Africa?  

 

The truth is, HASMAT couldn't come in and clean because they didn't have the proper permits.   Most of Africa doesn't even have permits.  

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/texas-woman-quarantine-ebola-thomas-duncan/index.html

 

"That hadn't happened as of Thursday evening. Men in trucks from Cleaning Guys, a company that specializes in hazmat and biohazard cleaning services, was turned away for lack of the necessary permit to transport hazardous waste on Texas highways, it said."

 

 

That wasn't my point.  The way they are cleaning that apartment complex is worse than what I've seen going on in Africa.  

 

[maize]

What have you seen going on in Africa?

 

The truth is, HASMAT couldn't come in and clean because they didn't have the proper permits. Most of Africa doesn't even have permits.

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/texas-woman-quarantine-ebola-thomas-duncan/index.html

 

"That hadn't happened as of Thursday evening. Men in trucks from Cleaning Guys, a company that specializes in hazmat and biohazard cleaning services, was turned away for lack of the necessary permit to transport hazardous waste on Texas highways, it said."

 

Clearly we are facing an epidemic of red tape in this country. Should I start panicking now?

 

Something I have learned from this discussion: isolationism is alive and well in the US. I get the feeling that the true extent of global interconnectedness is hard for people to grasp, and it is easier to think that if we focus exclusively on taking care of ourselves everything will just work out.

[Carrie12345]

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm missing any logical connection here.  The implication is that he's a cameraman for NBC News, so that means he wouldn't have any very close contact with the people he's living and working among?  No close contact with the Ebola patients he's filming?

 

I think there is an interesting implication to consider here. (And I'm not backing it up with concrete info, just exploring the concept.)

So much of the talk about transmission has revolved around hospital protocol and incredibly close contact, from care givers (relatives, doctors, morticians) and cultural ignorance.

MY assumption would be that an American cameraman would be educated and highly aware of precautions, as much as or more so than we would expect of the average Dallas resident.  Perhaps he made a mistake and/or let his guard down, but that's exactly what I would expect of the average citizen at some point.  Heck, officials who went into the apartment unprotected are now quarantined. They made an error in lack of protection when they went in, and one would definitely expect THEM to know better, no?

 

I do think we (the US) are capable of containing this to very few people.  IF people start handling it better!

[DawnM]

Most Americans are very Ethnocentric.  

 

Clearly we are facing an epidemic of red tape in this country. Should I start panicking now?

Something I have learned from this discussion: isolationism is alive and well in the US. I get the feeling that the true extent of global interconnectedness is hard for people to grasp, and it is easier to think that if we focus exclusively on taking care of ourselves everything will just work out.

 

[Trish]

Who precisely is going to impose this travel ban? It is not as if the US has some kind of authority to tell people in other countries they cannot cross their own borders. Only Liberia could impose a rule that people cannot leave Liberia for any reason, though even they could likely not enforce it. And do we really think it is desirable foe governments to behave in such strong-handed ways? Does their constitution even allow for such drastic measures? That also seems like a way to prevent any further foreign aid...who is going to send aid workers in if they are forbidden to leave? I would not volunteer for such an assignment!

 

Didn't we stop flights to/from Israel earlier this summer because of concerns about missile attacks?

[Farrar]

I find it highly impossible that someone who had lived in Monrovia for the whole duration of the ebola outbreak and had seen people all around him falling dead from it and has a smart phone on which he reads news and watched local TV where there is endless coverage of the disease as well as government propaganda on how to prevent the spread of the disease did not know how the disease spreads.

 

I question this patient's motivation in fleeing his country 

 

There's a massive amount of misinformation in Liberia and many of the other west African countries affected. Many people are hearing that it's a government plot, that western doctors are trying to eat the bodies, and many other preposterous things. I can believe that people, even those who don't believe that, may still be confused about what's going on around them.

 

Furthermore, there weren't people dropping dead all around him. The virus has hit certain villages and neighborhoods. As the reports have been so far, the pregnant neighbor he helped was the first in his neighborhood to die. Reportedly, they originally thought she was having a miscarriage.

 

As for why he came here, again, the family reports it was for something at his son's school and to see his son again after a long absence. Given the reports of how long it takes to plan a trip and get a visa (and, presumably, the cost as well) this trip was likely planned as much as several months ago.

 

It may turn out that he knew or suspected the pregnant woman had ebola and that he knew or suspected he might get sick. However, so far, the information out there just doesn't point to that. And many of the elements to the accusation are simply impossible (that he got a ticket to the US as soon as he thought he had the virus, for example).

[maize]

Didn't we stop flights to/from Israel earlier this summer because of concerns about missile attacks?

I don't know, but while we can stop direct flights originating or terminating in the US, we would not have the authority to stop other flights out of Israel or any other sovereign country.

[Trish]

What have you seen going on in Africa?  

 

The truth is, HASMAT couldn't come in and clean because they didn't have the proper permits.   Most of Africa doesn't even have permits.  

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/texas-woman-quarantine-ebola-thomas-duncan/index.html

 

"That hadn't happened as of Thursday evening. Men in trucks from Cleaning Guys, a company that specializes in hazmat and biohazard cleaning services, was turned away for lack of the necessary permit to transport hazardous waste on Texas highways, it said."

 

There's a  pic from WFAA channel 8 showing two guys using a pressure washer to clean up the outdoor ebola vomit. They don't have any type of protective clothing on. (and I have to wonder if a pressure washer would be appropriate in this situation) I imagine by now those guys are under quarantine too. 

 

[Amira]

Didn't we stop flights to/from Israel earlier this summer because of concerns about missile attacks?

US airlines didn't fly into or out of Tel Aviv for a couple of days. That is quite different from stopping all air traffic to and from an entire country for the duration of an outbreak of Ebola.

[DawnM]

But the claim was that what is going on here is WORSE than what she is seeing in Africa.  I am questioning that comment.

 

 

There's a  pic from WFAA channel 8 showing two guys using a pressure washer to clean up the outdoor ebola vomit. They don't have any type of protective clothing on. (and I have to wonder if a pressure washer would be appropriate in this situation) I imagine by now those guys are under quarantine too. 
 

 

[Trish]

US airlines didn't fly into or out of Tel Aviv for a couple of days. That is quite different from stopping all air traffic to and from an entire country for the duration of an outbreak of Ebola.

 

Is there an urgent necessity for people to travel to/from Liberia, vs the need to prevent more ebola from coming to the U.S.? For urgent matters, perhaps an airline stoppage to Liberia would be appropriate. We could still send help via the U.S. military rather than commercial air.

 

[Trish]

But the claim was that what is going on here is WORSE than what she is seeing in Africa.  I am questioning that comment.

 

I guess I would expect better clean-up techniques in the U.S. than unprotected guys using a pressure washer, and without any kind of protective clothing.

 

And all that stuff in the apartment was still there four days later?

 

I guess they didn't suspect ebola!

 

Hopefully the Hazmat teams are on it now.

[DawnM]

But that still isn't what I asked.

 

I understand things haven't been perfect at all, and there is some fault, but to claim that it is worse than what is being seen in Africa is not an accurate claim at all.  I would like to know specifically what she personally has seen in Africa that would allow her to make such a claim.

 

Dawn

 

 

I guess I would expect better clean-up techniques in the U.S. than unprotected guys using a pressure washer, and without any kind of protective clothing.

 

And all that stuff in the apartment was still there four days later?

 

I guess they didn't suspect ebola!

 

Hopefully the Hazmat teams are on it now.

 

[maize]

One reason Ebola is unlikely to spread as widely or cause as many problems as something like enterovirus 68 is the rapid and apparently universal severity of the disease. If I am understanding the progression of the disease correctly, by the time a person is shedding the ebola virus they would be aware of being seriously ill. This combined with close contact needed for transmission makes it easy in a developed country to limit the spread of the disease. By contrast, the majority of people infected with EV68 experience only symptoms similar to those of a cold, typically without even a fever. They continue with life as usual, going to school, to work, to the grocery store--shedding the virus everywhere they go. And every now and then a more susceptible person picks it up (usually a child) and becomes life-threateningly ill.

[Amira]

Is there an urgent necessity for people to travel to/from Liberia, vs the need to prevent more ebola from coming to the U.S.? For urgent matters, perhaps an airline stoppage to Liberia would be appropriate. We could still send help via the U.S. military rather than commercial air.

 

There actually aren't very many flights going into Liberia anymore, which means there aren't a lot coming out either. But as I've posted many times above, most people in Liberia haven't been exposed to Ebola and aren't a risk to anyone else. It would be extremely difficult to keep everyone from leaving the country.

 

I absolutely think the focus should be on fighting the disease in west Africa rather than containing it there.