Is there not an Ebola in Dallas thread yet?

[Trish]

Yikes, another Liberian on a flight from Brussels with ebola symptoms, and apparently vomited on the plane.  This time the CDC staff in hazmat gear met the plane.  How scary for those travelers.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780696/BREAKING-NEWS-CDC-officials-rush-Newark-Airport-meet-Liberian-passenger-flying-Brussels-showed-symptoms-Ebola.html

 

It wouldn't shock me if a lot of people in the affected countries concluded that exposure to ebola is a death sentence there, but that they can get great medical care in the U.S. if they could only get here before becoming symptomatic.

[RanchGirl]

.

[ddcrook]

I hope you are right, but do you have another source? That link says a Liberian vomited on the plane and was removed from the plane by the CDC but that they are still waiting on results. The time stamp was 2:42 ET

Hmm, you're right. It looks like the story changed after I posted the link.

[Guest]

Hmm, you're right. It looks like the story changed after I posted the link.

 

It's odd how stories keep changing.

[Guest]

Isn't this strange?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780687/EXCLUSIVE-Friend-Texas-Ebola-patient-visited-hospital-told-return-work-nursing-assistant-family-remain-quarantine.html

[Pawz4me]

It's odd how stories keep changing.

 

Not really, given what passes for journalism nowadays. They're all in so much of a rush to get a story out that they don't wait for facts as much as they should.  And in any evolving situation it always takes awhile to get things sorted out.  But given that we're all used to getting news almost instantaneously, the media would generally rather be wrong than slow.

[Guest]

Not really, given what passes for journalism nowadays. They're all in so much of a rush to get a story out that they don't wait for facts as much as they should.  And in any evolving situation it always takes awhile to get things sorted out.  But given that we're all used to getting news almost instantaneously, the media would generally rather be wrong than slow.

 

Irresponsible journalism, IMO.

[OneStepAtATime]

Not really, given what passes for journalism nowadays. They're all in so much of a rush to get a story out that they don't wait for facts as much as they should.  And in any evolving situation it always takes awhile to get things sorted out.  But given that we're all used to getting news almost instantaneously, the media would generally rather be wrong than slow.

As someone who worked in Broadcast TV for years I can guarantee this is a HUGE part of the problem.  There is far more pressure to get something out "before the other guy" than to be sure you are right.  There used to be a LOT more quality control.  Not nearly as much any more...  Which means stories are going to keep changing until someone finally gets at least most of the facts straight.  This makes it really hard to believe the details of a news report from ANY news source right after something occurs.  

[Laura Corin]

Isn't this strange?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780687/EXCLUSIVE-Friend-Texas-Ebola-patient-visited-hospital-told-return-work-nursing-assistant-family-remain-quarantine.html

 

FWIW - I wouldn't take your news from the Daily Mail.  It's a scandal rag.  BBC, Financial Times, Guardian, Times (maybe), Telegraph, Independent would all be decent sources.

 

L

[hornblower]

So here's a piece of info I came across today which I offer just as an FYI, not to scare anyone etc. ...

dogs can carry it. They're asymptomatic carriers.

"During the early phase of their infection, however, they can spread the disease to humans and other animals through licking, biting, urine, and feces."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201409/can-dogs-get-infected-the-ebola-virus

& the original study http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/3/pdfs/04-0981.pdf

 

[Matryoshka]

So here's a piece of info I came across today which I offer just as an FYI, not to scare anyone etc. ...

 

dogs can carry it. They're asymptomatic carriers.

 

"During the early phase of their infection, however, they can spread the disease to humans and other animals through licking, biting, urine, and feces."

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201409/can-dogs-get-infected-the-ebola-virus

 

& the original study http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/3/pdfs/04-0981.pdf

 

 

Well, in this country, a dog would first have to find an actively infected person to catch it; there aren't any other vectors.  So this doesn't worry me at all.  Even if this guy in TX had had a dog, they'd just have to isolate it for a bit - they'd have plenty of lead-time.  It's not like some random stray is going to be infected, it would be a house pet of a sick person.

 

[Guest]

FWIW - I wouldn't take your news from the Daily Mail.  It's a scandal rag.  BBC, Financial Times, Guardian, Times (maybe), Telegraph, Independent would all be decent sources.

 

L

 

I really hope that isn't true.  We'll see if it starts showing up on other news sites.

[Guest]

I don't know if this website is legit, but it's on here and a few others:  http://ukdaily.net/news/headlines/texas-ebola-patients-friend-has-been-told-he-can-return-to-work-as-nursing-assistant/

[Farrar]

Dogs can carry ebola? Interesting. I'm thinking that's not so useful to the disease in west Africa where I understand that people rarely touch dogs and consider them dirty disease carriers, but would be here in the US where we let our dogs French kiss us for some reason.

[Guest]

Dogs can carry ebola? Interesting. I'm thinking that's not so useful to the disease in west Africa where I understand that people rarely touch dogs and consider them dirty disease carriers, but would be here in the US where we let our dogs French kiss us for some reason.

 

Yes, my husband was telling me all the animals that can carry it, and dogs were one of them.  He was concerned some licked or ate the vomit that was left outside the apartment complex for days.

[Guest]

Well, in this country, a dog would first have to find an actively infected person to catch it; there aren't any other vectors.  So this doesn't worry me at all.  Even if this guy in TX had had a dog, they'd just have to isolate it for a bit - they'd have plenty of lead-time.  It's not like some random stray is going to be infected, it would be a house pet of a sick person.

 

 

Unless a pet or stay dog licked the patients vomit (that was outside the apartment for days).

 

ETA: spelling 

[Guest]

As someone who worked in Broadcast TV for years I can guarantee this is a HUGE part of the problem.  There is far more pressure to get something out "before the other guy" than to be sure you are right.  There used to be a LOT more quality control.  Not nearly as much any more...  Which means stories are going to keep changing until someone finally gets at least most of the facts straight.  This makes it really hard to believe the details of a news report from ANY news source right after something occurs.  

 

If I ran a news company, I'd rather not be the first one with the story if it was incorrect.  Not sure why they don't consider that!

[Farrar]

From what little I know about west African attitude toward dogs, I seriously doubt anyone in this first generation immigrant extended family would have had a dog.

[Colleen]

FWIW - I wouldn't take your news from the Daily Mail.  It's a scandal rag.  

 

Yes, have to chuckle at the juxtaposition of referencing the Daily Mail & then lamenting irresponsible journalism. ;-)

 

Well, in this country, a dog would first have to find an actively infected person to catch it; 

 

Or nose around an actively infected person's vomit.  For example.

[Guest]

Yes, have to chuckle at the juxtaposition of referencing the Daily Mail & then lamenting irresponsible journalism. ;-)

 

 

Or nose around an actively infected person's vomit.  For example.

 

Forgive me for not knowing much about Daily Mail. 

[Laura Corin]

Forgive me for not knowing much about Daily Mail. 

For future reference, a look at the right bar gives a flavour: celebrity gossip.

 

L

[Trish]

So here's a piece of info I came across today which I offer just as an FYI, not to scare anyone etc. ...

 

dogs can carry it. They're asymptomatic carriers.

 

"During the early phase of their infection, however, they can spread the disease to humans and other animals through licking, biting, urine, and feces."

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201409/can-dogs-get-infected-the-ebola-virus

 

& the original study http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/3/pdfs/04-0981.pdf

 

 

 

Wonder how long that vomit was on the sidewalk! Even now they just sort of spread it around...

 

[Trish]

The Dallas Weekly is advertising "Taste of Africa Comes to Dallas" this week.

 

How's that for timing.

[Guest]

For future reference, a look at the right bar gives a flavour: celebrity gossip.

 

L

 

So is all their news incorrect?

[Farrar]

So is all their news incorrect?

 

Not always. Sometimes correct, sometimes exaggerated or misleading, sometimes wrong. It's just not a trustworthy source. Without another story about something you see in the Daily Mail to back it up, I think you have to treat it as made up until you see confirmation.

[Laura Corin]

Not always. Sometimes correct, sometimes exaggerated, sometimes wrong. It's just not a trustworthy source. Without another story about something you see in the Daily Mail to back it up, I think you have to treat it as made up until you see confirmation.

Yes. Good summary.

 

L

[RanchGirl]

 

 

.

[Corraleno]

According to ABC News, the passenger in Newark does not have ebola:

 

 

 

"After an examination by physicians at University Hospital, the symptoms of one individual were found to be consistent with another, minor treatable condition unrelated to Ebola," University Hospital spokeswoman Donna Leusner said. "The second individual, who was traveling with the patient, was asymptomatic. The two individuals will be released with self-monitoring."

[Laurie4b]

Well, in this country, a dog would first have to find an actively infected person to catch it; there aren't any other vectors.  So this doesn't worry me at all.  Even if this guy in TX had had a dog, they'd just have to isolate it for a bit - they'd have plenty of lead-time.  It's not like some random stray is going to be infected, it would be a house pet of a sick person.

 

 

I was thinking of dogs in the apartment complex and the vomit... because, you know, dogs eat it and could go home and lick their humans.  It's one of the things I had pondered in my aggravation with the lack of proper attention to sanitation after this guy was diagnosed.

[Laurie4b]

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/   DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital? 

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/ DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital?

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all.

 

This could backfire. People may be afraid to seek help if sick, if they think they would be treated as criminals.

[Hunter]

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/   DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital? 

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all. 

 

:banghead:

 

This could backfire. People may be afraid to seek help if sick, if they think they would be treated as criminals.

 

:iagree:

[Corraleno]

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/   DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital? 

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all. 

 

I hope it's just political posturing, because otherwise it's insane. Not to mention insensitive, given the fact that Duncan has taken a turn for the worse and his condition has been downgraded from serious to critical. 

 

[Halftime Hope]

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/   DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital? 

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all. 

 

The DA is a bit of a card--this is par for the course for him.

 

[Ipsey]

The article is not inaccurate according to other sources, but um, thanks for the advice?

 

 

I think helping someone out when they are using an unrealiable source for important information _is_ a nice thing. If someone were coming on here using The National Enquirer, I think it would be kind to point out that it's not a very good source of reliable information.

 

Sincere thanks would certainly be meaningful.

[Pen]

I didn't question the doctors or said they didn't know what they were doing, I was saying conditions in the field, in a third world country that has been plagued by civil war, would not have the same infrastructure that would help in the prevention of the spread of the disease.

 

I don't have any clue regarding the restroom facilities, the media hasn't given that information.

 

 

Then I don't understand why you seemed to be commenting on my point that the international aid doctors who have contracted ebola have said no errors in their protocol were made. They wear full body/head suits, masks, goggles, boots, gloves. They use disinfectants if they get into body fluids. Nonetheless some have contracted the disease, without apparent errors in protocol:  thus strongly suggesting that the transmission of ebola, or at least this strain of it, is not so difficult as has been thought.

l

The only way I could understand your comments on the pit toilets would be to suggest that that is how the doctors got exposed.

 

While the USA may be more advanced in general, the doctors  from here and France etc. who have gone there are using a great deal of caution and protective gear. More than we see in general medical facilities, ambulances etc. in USA.

 

If you were just making your own point that Liberia has problems, well, I have no argument about that, but it certainly was irrelevant in terms of a reply to my own points.

 

 Maybe not to quote someone when you are not really replying to them and rather just making your own completely separate point would make sense.

[gardenmom5]

maybe he's just trying to get a jump on the Liberian government who first made statements they want to prosecute the guy for lying to the airlines to get on the plane.

 

would be kinda pointless if he doesn't make it  . . .

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/   DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital? 

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all. 

 

[Guest]

Have you seen this?  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/03/alarming-claims-made-by-stepdaughter-of-dallas-ebola-patient-likely-wont-help-restore-confidence-in-cdcs-handling-of-case/

[gardenmom5]

I do have a question for those who have actual medical knowledge - not just those reading somewhere else.

 

a dallas news crew took air video of a clean-up crew in regular clothes using a pressure washer to clean the ebola guy's vomit from the sidewalk in front of the apartment.  (and it's just going down the drainage grate.)

 

is that just me . . . or is that beyond nuts?

[Pen]

I find it highly impossible that someone who had lived in Monrovia for the whole duration of the ebola outbreak and had seen people all around him falling dead from it and has a smart phone on which he reads news and watched local TV where there is endless coverage of the disease as well as government propaganda on how to prevent the spread of the disease did not know how the disease spreads.

 

I question this patient's motivation in fleeing his country - I think that he knew what he was doing and did not care that he was endangering many, many people in the process. His nephew was on NBC TV demanding that the government give this man the ZMapp drug that was used on the American doctors who got ill in Liberia. I am not sure why he thinks that he can make demands while I am sure that the government is doing it's best for his relative. And the ZMapp drug was provided by the pharma company and not the CDC because the CDC has not approved it for usage yet. And the pharma company ran out of the experimental dosage it had in stock. I am guessing (from reading news articles) that the relatives told the man that he could get the ZMapp drug if he landed in the US and he made his plans accordingly. I also think that they believed that their family was safe because this is the US and they can get the ZMapp drug in case of exposure or infection. 

 

I hope he has not infected anyone else. I hope that he gets cured and we hear no more about ebola for a while.

 

 

Your thoughts about his state of mind are possible, of course. I do not know what he was thinking. I guess there is supposed to be a Wall Street Journal article with more info., but I do not have access to that.

 

I also hope he has not infected anyone else. I do not know if he will get cured. The woman he was exposed to seems to have left a lot of death in her wake.

 

If he does get cured I hope he will return to Liberia as an aid worker for others who are afflicted.

 

I do not think that hearing no more about ebola is likely--it is already an epidemic in several countries, and the levels of international travel are such that the chances are that it will arrive in USA again also. But simply it being a serious epidemic in Africa would be enough to keep hearing about it as amongst the pressing issues of this time.

[RanchGirl]

.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But that *article* I linked to was not unreliable, nor did I in any way indicate that I only "take my news" from that source or any one source.  In fact, in this very thread I have posted links to multiple other sources of news.  Should I get prior approval from someone on which news sources I can link to?  I'm sure Laura intended to be helpful, but it came off as condescending.  Not a new theme for this thread.

Laura is British.  She was giving helpful advice on British news sources.  Some people have thought that the Daily Mail was a regular newspaper in the past because they were not British and simply didn't know.  She was not being condescending but helpful.  

[Halftime Hope]

I do have a question for those who have actual medical knowledge - not just those reading somewhere else.

 

a dallas news crew took air video of a clean-up crew in regular clothes using a pressure washer to clean the ebola guy's vomit from the sidewalk in front of the apartment.  (and it's just going down the drainage grate.)

 

is that just me . . . or is that beyond nuts?

 

It IS nuts, and I apologize that I'm not a professional, but I am capable of reading the health departments' statements about under what conditions it lives, and for how long.  Even if it supposed to be dead, one would still suit up.

 

This is purely speculation, but I keep wondering if the power washing was something the apartment complex did on its own volition. Or maybe some of the neighbors?  Maybe they poured several gallons of bleach on the site first and no one took pictures of it?

 

I can see the apartment management feeling like they had to do *something* lest they be sued for negligence.  Or the neighbors doing something because no one else was?   

 

??

[Pen]

From what little I know about west African attitude toward dogs, I seriously doubt anyone in this first generation immigrant extended family would have had a dog.

 

 

But not everyone who lives in the area, who could have a dog that could wander around and lick up some vomit, is necessarily West African. 

 

As well, it is something to be aware of with regard to clean up protocol when a next case comes along.

 

How about mice, or cats as vectors...they even more often wander about on their own.  

 

I hope if this happens again, the readiness and ability to deal with clean up will be in place.

 

And  I hope that in this case, all workers, relatives, and even wandering animals will have managed to avoid infection.

[OneStepAtATime]

Laura is British.  She was giving helpful advice on British news sources.  Some people have thought that the Daily Mail was a regular newspaper in the past because they were not British and simply didn't know.  She was not being condescending but helpful.  

I agree.  I am certain Laura was trying to be helpful.  She has steered me to better news sources in the past, as well.

[MrsMommy]

But that *article* I linked to was not unreliable, nor did I in any way indicate that I only "take my news" from that source or any one source.  In fact, in this very thread I have posted links to multiple other sources of news.  Should I get prior approval from someone on which news sources I can link to?  Or can I only use her suggested list?  I'm sure Laura intended to be helpful, but it came off as condescending.  Not a new theme for this thread.

 

You don't need to get anyone's approval to link to whatever news source you want, but that source will probably be taken a lot more seriously if it's not a tabloid. I think Laura just wanted to make sure that you knew what kind of site you were linking to. Just because they get something right once in a while doesn't mean it's a generally reliable source of information.

[Tanaqui]

But that *article* I linked to was not unreliable, nor did I in any way indicate that I only "take my news" from that source or any one source.  In fact, in this very thread I have posted links to multiple other sources of news.  Should I get prior approval from someone on which news sources I can link to?  Or can I only use her suggested list?  I'm sure Laura intended to be helpful, but it came off as condescending.  Not a new theme for this thread.

 

What if you'd posted an article from, say, The National Enquirer? Maybe you don't come from the US and had no way of knowing that it's a tabloid instead of a reputable organization. Would you rather everybody snicker and roll their eyes behind your back, or kindly let you know that you done goofed?

 

 

[Katy]

Shaking my head at this one: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/dallas-da-considers-charges-against-foreign-ebola-patient/   DA is thinking about pressing charges... and taking the guy to jail and is wondering about contagion there. Really? When you are in jail with a life-threatening illness don't they take you to the hospital? 

 

I wonder if he's being pressured by worried people in the community because this makes no sense at all. 

 

He wouldn't be taken to jail until he was no longer contagious.  Many, many times patients are arrested at the hospital or upon discharge.  I've had patients who knew they were likely to be arrested upon discharge just walk out of the hospital while they were waiting to be discharged.   And when you see sheriff's deputies outside a room at a hospital, chances are very high that inside is not a friend, but a criminal.

 

I do have a question for those who have actual medical knowledge - not just those reading somewhere else.

 

a dallas news crew took air video of a clean-up crew in regular clothes using a pressure washer to clean the ebola guy's vomit from the sidewalk in front of the apartment.  (and it's just going down the drainage grate.)

 

is that just me . . . or is that beyond nuts?

 

I think it was irresponsible, but probably everyone will be fine.  UV light kills ebola.  Drying out kills ebola on most surfaces (glass seems to be one exception).  Some studies have shown it's dead within a few hours, but after a few days, outside, in the sun, it was probably dead.  If they mixed chlorine with the water, or even spraying with chlorinated city water, it should have killed the virus, according to that Richard Besser doctor on ABC.

[Slartibartfast]

Then I don't understand why you seemed to be commenting on my point that the international aid doctors who have contracted ebola have said no errors in their protocol were made. They wear full body/head suits, masks, goggles, boots, gloves. They use disinfectants if they get into body fluids. Nonetheless some have contracted the disease, without apparent errors in protocol:  thus strongly suggesting that the transmission of ebola, or at least this strain of it, is not so difficult as has been thought.

l

The only way I could understand your comments on the pit toilets would be to suggest that that is how the doctors got exposed.

 

While the USA may be more advanced in general, the doctors  from here and France etc. who have gone there are using a great deal of caution and protective gear. More than we see in general medical facilities, ambulances etc. in USA.

 

If you were just making your own point that Liberia has problems, well, I have no argument about that, but it certainly was irrelevant in terms of a reply to my own points.

 

 Maybe not to quote someone when you are not really replying to them and rather just making your own completely separate point would make sense.

I was responding to this. This is *exactly* what I quoted.

 

The doctors who have gotten it, when  interviewed apparently say that all protocols were followed perfectly, with no accidents. So apparently it is more easily spread, by some means, than the official belief/statements about the spread suggests.

It is impossible for protocol to be followed precisely under some conditions. I don't think it is more easily spread than official statements/beliefs. It is impossible to make that assessment because doctors (despite being experts) are not in the best circumstances.

 

How is that not relevant?

 

People quote people and make additional points all the time but I was responding to you. I was disagreeing with you. I don't believe the virus is more easily spread than the experts believe. Do you have anything that suggests that this is the case other than doctors falling ill in third world countries? That is expected. Liberia's problems are exactly why those doctors fall ill, it isn't irrelevant.

 

Not only are the conditions less sanitary but they have less staff.

 

Bausch recalled similar memories of when he and another doctor put on their protective suits, traveled to a Sierra Leone Ebola ward and discovered that they were the only two staff in a clinic of 60 Ebola patients. There was stool, vomit, blood and even patients on the floor. The nurses had gone on strike to demand better worker healthcare after some had fallen ill with Ebola. “In some places it’s a very negative cycle,†he said. “You have a nurse who gets sick, and the morale and willingness of the rest of the staff to keep working often goes down. Then even fewer people are working in the ward, and it gets more dangerous.â€

https://time.com/3453429/ebola-healthcare-workers-fatality-rate/

[Slartibartfast]

This article briefly mentions different animals that are known to be able to contract Ebola.

 

http://news.discovery.com/animals/ebolas-deadly-jump-from-animal-to-animal-140730.htm

 

Ebola may be present in more animals than previously thought, according to researchers studying the deadly virus, which has already been detected in chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, antelopes, porcupines, rodents, dogs, pigs and humans.