Need some encouragement...Private school honors teachers

[stephanie]

We are on our 12th year of homeschooling. We've enjoyed our years together, we're very close with our children, and they are all full of character and integrity. I've always felt that anything they may have lacked in education, they made up for in character. They really are great children.  I've also always felt like I've been fairly thorough in our schooling. I'm not a lazy parent, believe in teaching my kids, but also enjoying our time together and knowing that some of the best lessons have nothing to do with pencils and paper.

 

Having said all that, my 10th grader and 9th grader take some classes at our local private school.  They allow homeschoolers to come in part-time if needed. Both of my kids take honors courses there as well.  I decided to put them in honors classes for the classes they were most interested in because They both expressed wanting to be able to get as much out of the course as possible. This past week both of them made 72's on their test (different classes), despite studying (with me). Of course this concerned me so I made appointments with each of their teachers so I could discuss where we may be going wrong in our study efforts, or where we need to focus more. Mind you, I have my Bachelor's in Science in Nursing so it's not that I've never learned study skills; I know how to study for a test and have taught my children.

 

Unfortunately, after meeting with both teachers, I left feeling like a failure as a parent, more so as a home schooling parent. I've always been very confident in our schooling, our methods, and what our children have learned. Of course I know that it's not possible for me to cover everything, and I've always had the thought that I think many homeschooling parents have, "Am I doing enough?" Overall, I've felt confident in our years of schooling. The teachers (honors only) were very condescending to me. They kept saying things like, "Well, these ARE honors kids." It was like they assumed because mine are home schooled that they couldn't possibly think on a higher level.  They also made comments about how homeschoolers were often unprepared, which I agree, but so are other kids who aren't home schooled. My goal of enrolling them in honors courses was to help foster that higher level of thinking... Not that my kids should already know all the skills, but to be involved in a class that they can have that kind of interaction. Of course, immediately both teachers recommended that I take them out of Honors and put them in Standard classes. Mind you, their overall grades are still A's and B's in all of their classes. They also reminded me that these kids have had them before so they know their techniques. Ok, that's fine, but that shouldn't make it difficult for a new kid to be successful, or have to immediately be put in standards classes because they make a low grade on a test. I almost felt like they have formed this special group that no one is allowed in, and that they look for the first sign of trouble then try to boot  them out? I really try not to be sensitive and try to be objective, but I just didn't get the overall feel of support from them. One of the teachers told me that I was setting my son up for failure in college by reading aloud to him, or doing popcorn reading because he will never be prepared for college level reading. I explained to her that he's been a reluctant reader, really doesn't enjoy it, and each year we increase the level and amount of reading so as to ease into it. Then I felt like, "Why am I defending my methods of teaching my children? She doesn't know my son like I do." The other teacher immediately went into a spill of how honors classes are for serious students, not ones who join because their friends are in it. Ummm....my kids really don't have friends in there; they are new to the school. I reassured that teacher of the reasons for us being in her class, yet she still recommended moving to standards. After hearing that, my daughter took that as a challenge and aced all the tests in her class this week. :hurray:

 

I realize that perhaps these teachers are trying to be realistic with me (maybe), but I assumed teachers would be more interested in being supportive in helping them be successful in their class as opposed to immediately dropping their course. There will be hard courses in their lives; shouldn't they at least TRY to learn how to tweek things to become successful in there?

 

So today I find myself fearful; I'm fearful that I have not prepared my kids for "real school", or whatever they consider it. I'm looking at my 7th grader, afraid that I'm setting her up for failure as well. I have decided that I am going to take some of their advice and try to implement some different studying skills with my kids. However, now I wonder if I just need to enroll them full-time in school, because I'm not preparing them for college? I mean, I've taken high school as the main years of preparation for College, and I feel I've already failed before even starting it.

 

In no way am I disrespecting our teachers at the school; I just really want to understand them. I want my kids to feel supported by them, not like they are looking for a reason to boot them out of their classes. That is really how I feel-like they don't feel they are competent because they are homeschooled and don't know them. I am in constant contact with these teachers as well, making sure they know I am an involved parent, but still feel they really aren't supportive of us.

 

I would love to hear from some of you who may have experienced this, or from some teachers who can give me a better perspective and interpretation of this. I don't want to be unprofessional in this, or have a bad attitude that can be picked up by my kids. And I really just want to hear that everything will be okay. I know this, but need to hear it...lol

 

I did try to talk to dh about this, but being my biggest fan, his words were not so objective, but more protective. I'm not so naïve to think I can't learn something from these teachers, or that I'm doing everything right.

 

Thanks so much if you've read this far. My heart is heavy today with uncertainty.

[yvonne]

>> After hearing that, my daughter took that as a challenge and aced all the tests in her class this week. <<

 

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray:   Good for your daughter for rising to the challenge!

 

They've only just started. It just takes a little time for anyone to figure out "the system" for something new.  It sounds like your daughter is well on her way to figuring out what it takes to be successful in this new situation. 

 

Try not to take the teachers' comments personally. (I know firsthand how incredibly tough that is when it comes to our children!!!)  It's a private school. Expectations are going to be high. I doubt the teachers are going to have the same agenda as some public school teachers might have toward home schoolers. They just want their students to be committed to doing the work and to do well. The students in the honors class are going to be the top students. They're already familiar with that school and those teachers' "system."  They already know what and how to study to be successful there. Any new student, yours or any other, is going to have a period of adjustment while they figure it out. Your daughter has already demonstrated that she is more than capable of figuring out how to do well in that situation!! That's huge!

 

Is there a deadline by which you would have to transfer them to a "standard" class or withdraw?  Can you give your students a little longer in the honors classes?  Be supportive of both your students and the classes. See what they missed on the tests and help them figure out what they need to do to do better on the next one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

These are my thoughts upon reading this:

 

1. I don't care for the tone or presuppositions you are hearing from the teachers, but I would expect them to be able to evaluate readiness for their own courses. If they are telling your your dc are not ready for the work, that's an important thing to know. If your son is still needing to be eased into reading, he may not be ready for an honors course. That's not a failing on your part or his -- you were not wrong to go at his pace while measurably upping the level each year. But you are the one to do that, not a teacher of an advanced class.

 

2. Students change so much from 9th grade to 12th grade! Even in your homeschool, with all your obvious diligence and care, your 9th grader will be prepared for college by the end of 12th grade. No matter where some students go to school, it can be really hard to believe they'll get there in just four years but they will. So the fact that he's not ready for an honors class (in private school or anywhere) in 9th grade absolutely does NOT mean that you (or they) can't help him get ready for college by 12th.

 

3. Can you find out what, exactly, is hard for your dc in these classes? Is it an increased reading load, more writing, more output, etc. or is the real difficulty in study skills and more schooly ways of doing things? If they are used to taking work more slowly and in-depth, with lots of discussion, and the honors classes are mostly about TONS of memorization and testing, that would be a huge transition. That's what "honors" means in some schools locally -- drill, drill, drill on facts and dates, take extremely long tests, forget everything you ever heard, care about none of it. Which, to me, is not "honors" because it is not honorable. It isn't "advanced" because it doesn't advance students in the things that matter most. If my kids were capable learners, authentically learning at home, but fell on their faces in the test-and-dump culture, I wouldn't want them to change in that way.

So there's a lot to sort. Are the teachers so biased that they aren't even giving your dc a chance, or do your dc need a year in the standard class to learn how to do things the school's way before moving to advanced courses for the rest of high school? Are your children being unfairly lumped together because they are siblings and homeschooled -- should your dd stay in honors but your son move to the other class? Do you understand and believe in the school's pedagogy and philosophy? And how are your children feeling about all of this?

[EKS]

Have you seen the tests that they got 72s on?  That's where I'd start.  Really analyze where they went wrong.  Did they not know particular facts?  Were they supposed to give more information than they gave?  If it was math, did they not remember procedures?  Careless mistakes?  Did the problems go beyond what was assigned in homework?  Were there questions on things that weren't covered in class or in the book?  

 

Many times students need to adjust to the expectations of various teachers and they eventually do.  However, sometimes it truly isn't the student's fault.  Sometimes teachers don't teach the material and the book is less than helpful (this happened in my son's Algebra I class).  Sometimes teachers create tests that are totally ridiculous and don't actually test what they intend to test (this happened in my son's English and history courses).  So it's not always a question of working harder or smarter, though in your daughter's case, it sounds like she may be starting to figure out the system. 

[JanetC]

Look at how much you are helping them in these classes. If they can only get through the reading and homework with your tutoring, then they are probably misplaced at the honors level. They should be fairly independent at the high school level. If they only need a little help, go ahead and give it a couple more weeks to see how it goes.

 

It's not entirely clear to me, but it sounds like your daughter may be catching on and improving, but you are reading the homework aloud to your son? If so, maybe he does need to be in a standard class. How does he feel about the class? Does he want to rise to the occasion like DD, or is he discouraged? Teens need to have a say in their work as well.

[Jen500]

Did your children talk to their teachers? Our ps encourages students to speak to their teachers and come in for extra help if needed. Parents are welcome to talk with the teachers but they really want the students to talk with teachers.

 

A lot of the students starting in high school have to adjust to changes, especially when taking more difficult courses, so I wouldn't feel TOO singled out at the homeschooling comments.

[stephanie]

 

Is there a deadline by which you would have to transfer them to a "standard" class or withdraw?  Can you give your students a little longer in the honors classes?  Be supportive of both your students and the classes. See what they missed on the tests and help them figure out what they need to do to do better on the next one.

 

 

There isn't a deadline at their school..it's always available if needed. I've told both teachers that we plan to try to adjust to it before we immediately pulled out, and my dc also expressed that.

 

These are my thoughts upon reading this:

 

1. I don't care for the tone or presuppositions you are hearing from the teachers, but I would expect them to be able to evaluate readiness for their own courses. If they are telling your your dc are not ready for the work, that's an important thing to know. If your son is still needing to be eased into reading, he may not be ready for an honors course. That's not a failing on your part or his -- you were not wrong to go at his pace while measurably upping the level each year. But you are the one to do that, not a teacher of an advanced class.

 

2. Students change so much from 9th grade to 12th grade! Even in your homeschool, with all your obvious diligence and care, your 9th grader will be prepared for college by the end of 12th grade. No matter where some students go to school, it can be really hard to believe they'll get there in just four years but they will. So the fact that he's not ready for an honors class (in private school or anywhere) in 9th grade absolutely does NOT mean that you (or they) can't help him get ready for college by 12th.

 

3. Can you find out what, exactly, is hard for your dc in these classes? Is it an increased reading load, more writing, more output, etc. or is the real difficulty in study skills and more schooly ways of doing things? If they are used to taking work more slowly and in-depth, with lots of discussion, and the honors classes are mostly about TONS of memorization and testing, that would be a huge transition. That's what "honors" means in some schools locally -- drill, drill, drill on facts and dates, take extremely long tests, forget everything you ever heard, care about none of it. Which, to me, is not "honors" because it is not honorable. It isn't "advanced" because it doesn't advance students in the things that matter most. If my kids were capable learners, authentically learning at home, but fell on their faces in the test-and-dump culture, I wouldn't want them to change in that way.

So there's a lot to sort. Are the teachers so biased that they aren't even giving your dc a chance, or do your dc need a year in the standard class to learn how to do things the school's way before moving to advanced courses for the rest of high school? Are your children being unfairly lumped together because they are siblings and homeschooled -- should your dd stay in honors but your son move to the other class? Do you understand and believe in the school's pedagogy and philosophy? And how are your children feeling about all of this?

 

The main problem for dd was the attention to detail when she read. She handles the workload well, works ahead of due dates, but when had her quiz she didn't do well. She feels we need to probably make sure her notes are better organized and she's understanding the discussions in class. For ds, I really have no idea and neither does he. I did look at his test and it seemed relatively easy to take. After talking with him, he seems to second guess himself on the answers. For example, he said he had already used the word, "Chemistry" as an answer so he didn't use it again. Well, the answer was chemistry, so he missed it. He probably just needs more confidence in it. He said he was fine moving to a standards class if that's what was best for him. I just didn't want him to give it up because he didn't do so well at the beginning. He usually takes some warming up in school before he starts understanding things and how they work.

 

Have you seen the tests that they got 72s on?  That's where I'd start.  Really analyze where they went wrong.  Did they not know particular facts?  Were they supposed to give more information than they gave?  If it was math, did they not remember procedures?  Careless mistakes?  Did the problems go beyond what was assigned in homework?  Were there questions on things that weren't covered in class or in the book?  

 

Many times students need to adjust to the expectations of various teachers and they eventually do.  However, sometimes it truly isn't the student's fault.  Sometimes teachers don't teach the material and the book is less than helpful (this happened in my son's Algebra I class).  Sometimes teachers create tests that are totally ridiculous and don't actually test what they intend to test (this happened in my son's English and history courses).  So it's not always a question of working harder or smarter, though in your daughter's case, it sounds like she may be starting to figure out the system. 

 

A lot of it was careless mistakes that can be fixed. It's funny you mention ridiculous tests because dd's English teacher tested them on 3rd day of school on the Mission statement of the school. No notice at all. Being that dd has never been there, and no one really memorizes mission statements, she made a 0...yep, a 0 and it was added into her average. Ds had a chem test on safety/equiptment and he overlooked the back side of the page and missed all the ones on that side. So he didn't do well. I pleaded with the teacher after ds went in early in morn to see if he could correct it and get points taken off and she wouldn't do it. That kind of stuff baffles me, but I guess it's just a hard lesson in thoroughness for ds.

 

Look at how much you are helping them in these classes. If they can only get through the reading and homework with your tutoring, then they are probably misplaced at the honors level. They should be fairly independent at the high school level. If they only need a little help, go ahead and give it a couple more weeks to see how it goes.

It's not entirely clear to me, but it sounds like your daughter may be catching on and improving, but you are reading the homework aloud to your son? If so, maybe he does need to be in a standard class. How does he feel about the class? Does he want to rise to the occasion like DD, or is he discouraged? Teens need to have a say in their work as well.

 

I'm not reading either ds or dd's work to them. I was generally speaking like in Literature, and we mainly do that so we can all join in on discussion. DD is most certainly a different kid in terms of school. She's self-motivated and I don't have to follow her around making sure she does her work. Ds, otoh, is an entirely different story. He can be a PITB. Moving him to standards may be very probable for him. He's very interested in Chemistry, which Is why we did honors. He wanted to really be able to go in-depth with it, but he may not have understood what that meant.

 

Did your children talk to their teachers? Our ps encourages students to speak to their teachers and come in for extra help if needed. Parents are welcome to talk with the teachers but they really want the students to talk with teachers.

 

A lot of the students starting in high school have to adjust to changes, especially when taking more difficult courses, so I wouldn't feel TOO singled out at the homeschooling comments.

Yes, they both did before I did. I went in to see what changes I could make on my part and what they thought about the situation...I guess I got what I wanted...lol

[abacus2]

Nothing in your post gives me any indication that there has been anything wrong with your homeschool. It sounds like you are still taking a homeschool approach to the private school classes, though. In general, the teachers are likely to expect the students to take ownership of figuring things out and asking for help if needed. If a parent comes in to discuss and poor, but passing, grade on an early test, they may worry that the students are not up to the challenge, but are relying on you to make it. In regard to them commenting about it being honors, in my experience as a high school teacher, honors classes frequently involved pushing hard so that those excellent students didn't always make their usual high grades.

 

Try not to stress and double-think yourself. The truth is you didn't prepare them for private school classes because homeschool doesn't work that way. You did, however, prepare them with the necessary academic and thinking skills to learn how to navigate private school classes. There will be an adjustment period. It is also possible that your DS would find the standard class a better fit given the fact that he has struggled.

[Arcadia]

Having said all that, my 10th grader and 9th grader take some classes at our local private school. They allow homeschoolers to come in part-time if needed. Both of my kids take honors courses there as well. I decided to put them in honors classes for the classes they were most interested in because They both expressed wanting to be able to get as much out of the course as possible.

I think the teachers just have certain expectations of their students regardless where they came from (homeschool, public middle school, private middle school). When we went to private high schools open houses, the subject teachers all have their expectations and weren't shy about telling the parents what they are looking for.

Also the private schools we went to have placement tests for prospective students. Was there placement tests for your children? Maybe if your children were assigned to the honors class the teachers would be less likely to recommend the standard class compare to if it was a "pick what class you want".

[EndOfOrdinary]

I am not saying this is what happened to you, but my Dh is a public school teacher and he had a very strong bias against homeschooling. We homeschool, and it shows up at home too. A few years ago, three or four of his favorite kids turned out to have been homeschooled (a co-op closed so his school got a very large wave of kids). It took that much for him to now say that "homeschooling can be okay, but very rarely." He still thinks 90 percent of homeschooling parents enable their children, have no standards, and thinking that they can teach somehow ridicules all the work he has put into a teaching degree.

 

It might be that you are walking into a situation where there is a degree of bias about your kids because of their previous educational experience. It sounds like it is merely learning the ropes that any transfer kid might have to do, or any kid who just has never had to play the game of school (mission statements, turning the page over, reading to meet the types of questions the teacher is going to ask rather than personal goals, etc.).

[Michelle_NC]

I think the posts above gave some really good advice.  My dd was in a competitive private school for 6 - 10th grades and they start working towards honors-level classes in middle school.  I can see how any student could have a rough transition if they jumped in towards the end of that process.

 

As tough as it is, high school is the time to take the training wheels off and let them manage the work on their own.  (And I say this as a parent who really struggled with backing away!)  

[TechWife]

First - I think teachers are conditioned to talk only about negative things in conferences. It's the nature of the beast. 

 

Second - I agree with others that if you have to read to your son, he isn't ready for honors level work. If he has some type of reading disability, that's a different case. If he prefers to listen to books rather than read them, then he can look for word for word recordings as longs as he's prepared to take notes as he listens instead of annotating a written book. 

 

Third - The picky stuff about not turning the page over is quite normal and is good, in my opinion. Details are important. The quicker he learns little things like that, the quicker his grades will go up. Now, you said you pleaded with the teacher over that one - so my recommendation is that you step out of the picture and in the future coach your son on  how to advocate for himself, how to ask questions and how to talk to the teacher. The teacher is expecting high school students to take care of things largely by themselves. A much better way to approach it would have been for him to look at the test, see if there was a cue at the bottom of the page that the test continued, or was it labeled "page 1 of 2" or anything else that would give him an idea that there was more to it. If not, he now has a clue that he has to listen carefully to the teacher's instructions because she likely said either that it was two pages or xx number of problems on it - which would have been his cue to look on the back. In any case, it never hurts to turn a page over and look on the back side of it. 

 

Fourth - Nowadays teachers are interested in having students that test well - even in the private schools. So they aren't necessarily interested in making sure your kids succeed unless your kids demonstrate that they want to succeed. That brings me back to my third point - which is teach your kids to ask these questions themselves. Meeting with the teacher as a student will demonstrate that he is a serious student, she will have an opportunity to get to know him, and he will get the help he needs. 

 

Fifth - Maybe your kids are honors students, but they are B or C honors students, not A honors students. Not everyone makes an A in an honors course. You will have to decide what is more important, the honors content of the class or the grade on the transcript. If it is the latter, then maybe it would be in their best interests to move to standard classes. 

 

Sixth - At this stage, you shouldn't be helping your kids study for a class with an outside teacher. Teach them basic study skills (the most important one is when and how to ask the teacher questions). Teach them how to manage their time and then hands off! 

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

If they specifically mentioned problems due to your kids having been homeschooled, that sends up a red flag for me and I would think there is bias like EndOfOrdinary described. (My niece, who isn't that much younger than me, is a teacher and is convinced that most homeschooled kids are educational failures. I think the bias comes in bc the kids that end up in her class are kids that go back to school bc the parents haven't been able to make homeschooling work. It took her seeing how successful our kids are to realize that she was biased.)

 

FWIW, my kids would not do well in a high school but are great college students. High schools and colleges expect different things and have a different way of communicating. My kids are used to functioning more like professors and students interact (syllabus, daily self-monitoring, clearly defined dates/expectations vs. high school micromanaging and insignificant details mattering (like a test on the school's mission statement.)

 

I wouldn't use a high school teacher's opinion as a gauge for your homeschool's success or failure. I am a non-conformist, so I know what my reaction would be. :P But, if your kids are going to want to stay in the school and those specific classes, learning to conform to those individual teacher's style and expectations is all that is really going to matter, not anything that happened during their previous yrs at home. It sounds like your dd has already figured that out. So the main question is your ds going to as well??

[plansrme]

For what it is worth, my new freshman is also at a private Christian high school this year.  She has not been in a brick and mortar school since first grade.  She has had some transition issues, shall we say, and my impression is that the teachers are putting her difficulties down to her having been homeschooled.  They are not, particularly.  I am not fussing at the teachers or having conferences with them, but from my initial contact with the administration, it has been pretty clear that they do not expect homeshooled students to be prepared for what they (incorrectly, in my opinion) feel are rigorous courses.  Funny how when my oldest entered what really is a rigorous high school, knocked the socks off of their legitimately rigorous course load and was one of very few students (and, as far as we can tell, the only junior) to have been accepted for dual enrollment at Georgia Tech this year, no one put her success down to homeschooling.

 

My point is that if you are a homeschooler, you are going to get the blame for any difficulties your student may have, whether those difficulties are attributable to homeschooling or not.  Evaluators are conditioned to look for defects, and I firmly believe that you are going to encounter an anti-homeschooling bias at almost any b&m school, even a small private one.  That does not mean that they aren't right about your students' shortcomings, but they might have those shortcomings (and others) or those deficiencies might well have been worse had they not been homeschooled.  And that will be my defense with my freshman's school, should it come up:  "Hey, I know she can't write her way out of a paper bag, but you should see how much better it is than it used to be," etc., because that will be the truth.

 

And also, as others have said, by tenth grade, you should not be contacting your student's teachers about a C; your student needs to do that.  Teachers do not want to hear from  you.

[LisaKinVA]

I would disagree that a quiz over a mission statement is insignificant.  The failure just told the teacher that Mother was the motivator in signing up, not student.  It may also have shown that child did not read Handbook or material posted in the school, or delivered as part of a welcoming address. Likely the teacher expects the student to have had input in his schooling choice, and to know what he signed up for.  You do see this everywhere at this level...even coaches are reminding freshman that things are more competitive, less rec. than in middle school, and that the team has a goal. 

 

Also, I would not expect there to be notices on quizzes. It is expected that students have notice on tests, but not quizzes here, at Mediocre Public High.  Notice on tests is three days...and it will always be given on a Monday or Tuesday & your child will have a away meet/game on one of the three days, which means he has to use his study hall(s) wisely and learn to anticipate so his weekend can be used wisely.  Quizzes can be given at any time...there is no free pass for people whose extracurriculars prevent them from being in class...each school has a policy on this and it would be wise of your children to learn what the policy is ahead of time(see Student Handbook or ask staff). This is a quick overview of what is expected here of honors students: http://www.stuy-pa.org/AnnounceDoc/DoNotMove/Biegelson%27sTheory.pdf .

Going to disagree here...one can want to sign up for the courses/school, read the handbook and NOT memorize a mission statement.  One can belong to numerous organizations, support them and NOT memorize a mission statement (BSA, GSA, AHG, all have mission statements...older boys, girls, leaders have all read them, but they are not required to be committed to memory in order to participate at any level).

 

If someone is expected to memorize a mission statement, that should be listed as a requirement somewhere (in the handbook, or in the class). Having attended 11 schools in 13 years myself, private, public and homeschool, If I had shown up to any school and on the 3rd day of class been asked (for a quiz grade) to write out the school Mission Statement, I would have been extremely upset. It would have bothered me if it had been simply for extra credit, but I would have been truly upset about a zero on a quiz for something I would have no way of knowing I was responsible for memorizing....unless the standard is you memorize a school handbook (our local high school's handbook is 10 pages long).

I've seen some teachers (and good ones, at that), intentionally make the first test of the year very hard, or grade it particularly severely, so that many students get a low grade.  This forces the students to take the class seriously, and study diligently for future tests, and shows them that hard work pays off.  Seems like this is already effective with your daughter.

[Ellie]

I am not saying this is what happened to you, but my Dh is a public school teacher and he had a very strong bias against homeschooling. We homeschool, and it shows up at home too. A few years ago, three or four of his favorite kids turned out to have been homeschooled (a co-op closed so his school got a very large wave of kids). It took that much for him to now say that "homeschooling can be okay, but very rarely." He still thinks 90 percent of homeschooling parents enable their children, have no standards, and thinking that they can teach somehow ridicules all the work he has put into a teaching degree.

 

It might be that you are walking into a situation where there is a degree of bias about your kids because of their previous educational experience. It sounds like it is merely learning the ropes that any transfer kid might have to do, or any kid who just has never had to play the game of school (mission statements, turning the page over, reading to meet the types of questions the teacher is going to ask rather than personal goals, etc.).

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[8filltheheart]

I would disagree that a quiz over a mission statement is insignificant. The failure just told the teacher that Mother was the motivator in signing up, not student. It may also have shown that child did not read Handbook or material posted in the school, or delivered as part of a welcoming address. Likely the teacher expects the student to have had input in his schooling choice, and to know what he signed up for. You do see this everywhere at this level...even coaches are reminding freshman that things are more competitive, less rec. than in middle school, and that the team has a goal.

 

Also, I would not expect there to be notices on quizzes. It is expected that students have notice on tests, but not quizzes here, at Mediocre Public High. Notice on tests is three days...and it will always be given on a Monday or Tuesday & your child will have a away meet/game on one of the three days, which means he has to use his study hall(s) wisely and learn to anticipate so his weekend can be used wisely. Quizzes can be given at any time...there is no free pass for people whose extracurriculars prevent them from being in class...each school has a policy on this and it would be wise of your children to learn what the policy is ahead of time(see Student Handbook or ask staff). This is a quick overview of what is expected here of honors students: http://www.stuy-pa.org/AnnounceDoc/DoNotMove/Biegelson%27sTheory.pdf .

Which is exactly why I stated that my kids would be horrible high school students b/c it is a completely different mentality, a schoolish one that my kids are completely unfamiliar with dealing with (for which I am grateful.) A university is not going to give you a quiz on a "mission statement" unless a prof told you that reading it and knowing the info was relevant to your class. I was not suggesting that they need notice on quizzes, but expecting to know something completely disconnected from the class you are attending--yes, I would expect to be informed that the prof thought it was something he expected students to be familiar with before giving a quiz on it that impacted the final grade.

[TranquilMind]

We are on our 12th year of homeschooling. We've enjoyed our years together, we're very close with our children, and they are all full of character and integrity. I've always felt that anything they may have lacked in education, they made up for in character. They really are great children.  I've also always felt like I've been fairly thorough in our schooling. I'm not a lazy parent, believe in teaching my kids, but also enjoying our time together and knowing that some of the best lessons have nothing to do with pencils and paper.

 

Having said all that, my 10th grader and 9th grader take some classes at our local private school.  They allow homeschoolers to come in part-time if needed. Both of my kids take honors courses there as well.  I decided to put them in honors classes for the classes they were most interested in because They both expressed wanting to be able to get as much out of the course as possible. This past week both of them made 72's on their test (different classes), despite studying (with me). Of course this concerned me so I made appointments with each of their teachers so I could discuss where we may be going wrong in our study efforts, or where we need to focus more. Mind you, I have my Bachelor's in Science in Nursing so it's not that I've never learned study skills; I know how to study for a test and have taught my children.

 

Unfortunately, after meeting with both teachers, I left feeling like a failure as a parent, more so as a home schooling parent. I've always been very confident in our schooling, our methods, and what our children have learned. Of course I know that it's not possible for me to cover everything, and I've always had the thought that I think many homeschooling parents have, "Am I doing enough?" Overall, I've felt confident in our years of schooling. The teachers (honors only) were very condescending to me. They kept saying things like, "Well, these ARE honors kids." It was like they assumed because mine are home schooled that they couldn't possibly think on a higher level.  They also made comments about how homeschoolers were often unprepared, which I agree, but so are other kids who aren't home schooled. My goal of enrolling them in honors courses was to help foster that higher level of thinking... Not that my kids should already know all the skills, but to be involved in a class that they can have that kind of interaction. Of course, immediately both teachers recommended that I take them out of Honors and put them in Standard classes. Mind you, their overall grades are still A's and B's in all of their classes. They also reminded me that these kids have had them before so they know their techniques. Ok, that's fine, but that shouldn't make it difficult for a new kid to be successful, or have to immediately be put in standards classes because they make a low grade on a test. I almost felt like they have formed this special group that no one is allowed in, and that they look for the first sign of trouble then try to boot  them out? I really try not to be sensitive and try to be objective, but I just didn't get the overall feel of support from them. One of the teachers told me that I was setting my son up for failure in college by reading aloud to him, or doing popcorn reading because he will never be prepared for college level reading. I explained to her that he's been a reluctant reader, really doesn't enjoy it, and each year we increase the level and amount of reading so as to ease into it. Then I felt like, "Why am I defending my methods of teaching my children? She doesn't know my son like I do." The other teacher immediately went into a spill of how honors classes are for serious students, not ones who join because their friends are in it. Ummm....my kids really don't have friends in there; they are new to the school. I reassured that teacher of the reasons for us being in her class, yet she still recommended moving to standards. After hearing that, my daughter took that as a challenge and aced all the tests in her class this week. :hurray:

 

I realize that perhaps these teachers are trying to be realistic with me (maybe), but I assumed teachers would be more interested in being supportive in helping them be successful in their class as opposed to immediately dropping their course. There will be hard courses in their lives; shouldn't they at least TRY to learn how to tweek things to become successful in there?

 

So today I find myself fearful; I'm fearful that I have not prepared my kids for "real school", or whatever they consider it. I'm looking at my 7th grader, afraid that I'm setting her up for failure as well. I have decided that I am going to take some of their advice and try to implement some different studying skills with my kids. However, now I wonder if I just need to enroll them full-time in school, because I'm not preparing them for college? I mean, I've taken high school as the main years of preparation for College, and I feel I've already failed before even starting it.

 

In no way am I disrespecting our teachers at the school; I just really want to understand them. I want my kids to feel supported by them, not like they are looking for a reason to boot them out of their classes. That is really how I feel-like they don't feel they are competent because they are homeschooled and don't know them. I am in constant contact with these teachers as well, making sure they know I am an involved parent, but still feel they really aren't supportive of us.

 

I would love to hear from some of you who may have experienced this, or from some teachers who can give me a better perspective and interpretation of this. I don't want to be unprofessional in this, or have a bad attitude that can be picked up by my kids. And I really just want to hear that everything will be okay. I know this, but need to hear it...lol

 

I did try to talk to dh about this, but being my biggest fan, his words were not so objective, but more protective. I'm not so naïve to think I can't learn something from these teachers, or that I'm doing everything right.

 

Thanks so much if you've read this far. My heart is heavy today with uncertainty.

Ann Landers used to say that "No one can make you feel inferior without your permission".   Just stop that nonsense, Mom.  You've done a GREAT JOB and you care, which is about 1000% more than many kids get, regardless of schooling method. 

 

Of course those teachers are going to be threatened by you, a mere amateur, who dares to tread on their turf.  ;)

 

Now your daughter can show them who they are messing with.  She can go above and beyond in every way and earn their respect.   I do think you said too much about your kids and needing to be eased into reading and all that, speaking from the perspective of the other party.  Be careful about how you say what you say, because it will be twisted and misunderstood in any way possible. 

[TranquilMind]

These are my thoughts upon reading this:

 

1. I don't care for the tone or presuppositions you are hearing from the teachers, but I would expect them to be able to evaluate readiness for their own courses. If they are telling your your dc are not ready for the work, that's an important thing to know. If your son is still needing to be eased into reading, he may not be ready for an honors course. That's not a failing on your part or his -- you were not wrong to go at his pace while measurably upping the level each year. But you are the one to do that, not a teacher of an advanced class.

 

2. Students change so much from 9th grade to 12th grade! Even in your homeschool, with all your obvious diligence and care, your 9th grader will be prepared for college by the end of 12th grade. No matter where some students go to school, it can be really hard to believe they'll get there in just four years but they will. So the fact that he's not ready for an honors class (in private school or anywhere) in 9th grade absolutely does NOT mean that you (or they) can't help him get ready for college by 12th.

 

3. Can you find out what, exactly, is hard for your dc in these classes? Is it an increased reading load, more writing, more output, etc. or is the real difficulty in study skills and more schooly ways of doing things? If they are used to taking work more slowly and in-depth, with lots of discussion, and the honors classes are mostly about TONS of memorization and testing, that would be a huge transition. That's what "honors" means in some schools locally -- drill, drill, drill on facts and dates, take extremely long tests, forget everything you ever heard, care about none of it. Which, to me, is not "honors" because it is not honorable. It isn't "advanced" because it doesn't advance students in the things that matter most. If my kids were capable learners, authentically learning at home, but fell on their faces in the test-and-dump culture, I wouldn't want them to change in that way.

 

So there's a lot to sort. Are the teachers so biased that they aren't even giving your dc a chance, or do your dc need a year in the standard class to learn how to do things the school's way before moving to advanced courses for the rest of high school? Are your children being unfairly lumped together because they are siblings and homeschooled -- should your dd stay in honors but your son move to the other class? Do you understand and believe in the school's pedagogy and philosophy? And how are your children feeling about all of this?

 

Oh my, this is so right.  My kid in 10th is SO very different than in 9th, in his analytical skills, and ability to consume large amounts of information.

 

He's always been a good student, but gee...this kid memorized the first 100 numbers of pi this summer, just for fun, and recited them perfectly (I was seriously impressed).  He wouldn't have even attempted that  a couple of years ago. 

 

It is also true to be sure and pay attention for undue bias toward your kid.  The schools my oldest has attended has been biased toward, not against, home schoolers, if anything, because they have performed better overall.  Maybe this school hasn't had many home schoolers transition in. You also need to be careful about with whom you share that information.  This is not something I ever shared up front until I was sure I was dealing with someone who was already impressed with my kid, so that this factor was off the table, so to speak. 

[stephanie]

I would disagree that a quiz over a mission statement is insignificant.  The failure just told the teacher that Mother was the motivator in signing up, not student.  It may also have shown that child did not read Handbook or material posted in the school, or delivered as part of a welcoming address. Likely the teacher expects the student to have had input in his schooling choice, and to know what he signed up for.  You do see this everywhere at this level...even coaches are reminding freshman that things are more competitive, less rec. than in middle school, and that the team has a goal. 

 

Also, I would not expect there to be notices on quizzes. It is expected that students have notice on tests, but not quizzes here, at Mediocre Public High.  Notice on tests is three days...and it will always be given on a Monday or Tuesday & your child will have a away meet/game on one of the three days, which means he has to use his study hall(s) wisely and learn to anticipate so his weekend can be used wisely.  Quizzes can be given at any time...there is no free pass for people whose extracurriculars prevent them from being in class...each school has a policy on this and it would be wise of your children to learn what the policy is ahead of time(see Student Handbook or ask staff). This is a quick overview of what is expected here of honors students: http://www.stuy-pa.org/AnnounceDoc/DoNotMove/Biegelson%27sTheory.pdf .

 

My daughter was the one who has been requesting to take some outside classes, as well as Honors courses because that's just the kind of kid she is. She like challenging work once she gets the hang of it. If she wasn't prepared for Honors courses, I most certainly wouldn't have even placed her in them. I was an honors student and realize the expectations.

 

As for the mission statement, It's not so much that  I don't think it's important, but to test on the 3rd day of classes, no notice, for something not related to English doesn't seem professional to me, or in the interest of helping kids succeed...jmho. I just that kind of testing sets the kids up for failure. Had it been in the contract she signed in order to take honors, I would understand, but it wasn't. I personally asked several teachers and found they could neither fully complete the mission statement..not sure what that means.

[stephanie]

Going to disagree here...one can want to sign up for the courses/school, read the handbook and NOT memorize a mission statement.  One can belong to numerous organizations, support them and NOT memorize a mission statement (BSA, GSA, AHG, all have mission statements...older boys, girls, leaders have all read them, but they are not required to be committed to memory in order to participate at any level).

 

If someone is expected to memorize a mission statement, that should be listed as a requirement somewhere (in the handbook, or in the class). Having attended 11 schools in 13 years myself, private, public and homeschool, If I had shown up to any school and on the 3rd day of class been asked (for a quiz grade) to write out the school Mission Statement, I would have been extremely upset. It would have bothered me if it had been simply for extra credit, but I would have been truly upset about a zero on a quiz for something I would have no way of knowing I was responsible for memorizing....unless the standard is you memorize a school handbook (our local high school's handbook is 10 pages long).

 

Exactly my thoughts. She did receive a 0 and it did devastate her. She studies hard, was prepared for her vocab test that was the next day, but felt had she known she most certainly would've memorized it.

[Grantmom]

Honestly, this kind of stuff is why I am glad that my ds decided to homeschool for high school.  I mean, a test on the mission statement that she's never seen, I would never expect a 14 or 15 yr old to think of asking to see that before stepping foot in the classroom.  That is the kind of stuff that drives me batty.  The point of a class should be to learn and improve and expand your knowledge, not to try to trick you into silly things.  (I do NOT mean a mission statement is silly.  A mission statement is awesome, but if she was going to be tested on it, for a grade, then the expectation should have been given up front, especially on something like that.)  I honestly think that it just comes from that mentality of thinking that if we actually trust kids to learn, they will fail, so we have to make sure they "learn their lesson" and so on.  If I had been that teacher, and saw that he left the back side of the paper blank, in the first week of school of all times, instead of assuming the child was lazy or negligent, I would have asked him if he saw the back side.

 

I have to respectfully disagree that you should be hands off if this is their first outside class.  In fact, I think you are in a better position than anyone to really help them get what they need out of the class and help them to learn the study skills, time management, and confidence they need to succeed in future courses.  My ds is also taking a few outside courses this year, and I was actually thinking that for these past few weeks.  I was thinking that I am glad we have the freedom and flexibility to help him through this transition as he needs it.  I don't mean hovering and being in control of everything.  But it is a transition, and I personally think we have this completely different and unfair expectation for kids that we wouldn't have for adults.  How would an adult be treated when training for a new job?  If I go and get a job at Petco and I am assigned to the lizard section, but it is also my job to feed the cats, but no one tells me I am supposed to feed the cats, am I supposed to somehow magically know that I should feed the cats?

 

I think you are in a tough position, but I think it sounds like you are doing an awesome job of helping them through this. 

 

 

 

 

[TechWife]

One can belong to numerous organizations, support them and NOT memorize a mission statement (BSA, GSA, AHG, all have mission statements...older boys, girls, leaders have all read them, but they are not required to be committed to memory in order to participate at any level).

 

 

This is not true for the BSA. Boy Scouts must recite the Boy Scout Promise and the Scout Law each time they have a board of review for rank advancement. If they can't say them from memory, they can't advance. In addition, they are recited at every meeting, without a reference sheet. The BSA rank advancement is quite demanding, this is just a small part of it. 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This is not true for the BSA. Boy Scouts must recite the Boy Scout Promise and the Scout Law each time they have a board of review for rank advancement. If they can't say them from memory, they can't advance. In addition, they are recited at every meeting, without a reference sheet. The BSA rank advancement is quite demanding, this is just a small part of it. 

 

 

Yes, but there is also a separate BSA mission ("To prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over the course of their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.")

 

Nor do you give a new scout a down check on not knowing it on the first month of meetings.

 

 

 

On the other hand, the quiz itself is passed and opening.  A more important question for the OP to address with the teachers is how do they, as involved parents, help their kids, as interested students, best engage with the course material.  We have moved several times in the past few years.  With each new scout troop, swim team and homeschool coop I have to invest a fair amount of time with figuring out what "everyone knows". 

 

With our current scout troop, I spent several meetings before summer camp walking around, asking questions of the adult leaders.  When will they leave? Do they bring a lunch or will the group stop on the way? What items does everyone know to bring from experience that aren't listed on the packing list.  I got a lot of "oh, Dan handles that" or "we meet at the conex box" answers.  I had to follow those up with, "I don't know who Dan is. Could you introduce me?" and "Where is the conex box? questions.  Repeat with swim team.  Repeat with homeschool group.

 

I think that the OP will need to not read negative judgment where it might not exist and also overlook it even where it may exist.  Be a bit of a supplicant.  A lot of this needs to come from the student, but a lot needs to come from the parent too.  Ask how to best support the student in meeting the class expectations.

 

If the school setting doesn't offer what is needful, then withdraw.  If it does offer something needful, then learn how to operate within that setting.

[readinmom]

First of all, you are being way too hard on yourself.  Are you really willing to throw away all of the great memories/experiences that you have experienced with your dc just because of a teacher's comments?  

 

On the fact that your son is a reluctant reader: So are a majority of teen boys right now.  You are not enabling him as long as you expect him to master the material.  

 

As you move towards the future, put more of the material in his hands and let him set up the study schedule.  It's hard, but this is what growing up is all about.  Baby steps will get both of you there.  No need to panic!  

[LisaKinVA]

The expectation for honors is 'above and beyond'....not just do as told.

 

And as a former BSA leader, my Council did make sure will all knew the mission statement, as did the unit sponsor. Cant deliver a quality program if participants dont know the mission.

 

I will agree to disagree.

 

Above and Beyond for the course they are taking, not quizzes on random, unrelated things.  And yes, a quiz in an English class over Memorizing a handbook mission statement would qualify, IMO. Basing grades upon things students have no idea they are supposed to be responsible for does nothing to foster learning, and makes getting grades a bit of luck.  This is no different than having a pop quiz on a book not assigned or listed on the syllabus.  Until I had children, I routinely read (and re-read) 50-100 books a year (outside of school requirements), but that doesn't mean I was reading the same books as my classmates or my teacher.  Had one of my Honors English teachers started class and said, "Well, you are all supposed to be reading at least 1 book a month outside of course requirements, so we are going to have a QUIZ based upon the James Joyce novel, "Ulysses," because the teacher read that book over the weekend, but I had been reading The Scarlet Letter -- that would be equally unfair.  I was reading (as per the instructions), I was going "above and beyond" what the course requires -- but I would always be at the mercy of the whim of a teacher.  I could NEVER win, unless I just happened to get lucky.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts. She did receive a 0 and it did devastate her. She studies hard, was prepared for her vocab test that was the next day, but felt had she known she most certainly would've memorized it.

 

I'm very sorry -- I would have difficulty understanding this as an adult, let alone a teen.  

 

 

This is not true for the BSA. Boy Scouts must recite the Boy Scout Promise and the Scout Law each time they have a board of review for rank advancement. If they can't say them from memory, they can't advance. In addition, they are recited at every meeting, without a reference sheet. The BSA rank advancement is quite demanding, this is just a small part of it. 

 

 

The oath and law are not the BSA mission statement.   BSA rank advancement also states that leaders/board members can only award or withhold rank based upon the execution of the requirements listed, they cannot add to them.  Meaning, even though many scouts have read the mission statement, a Board member at their BoR couldn't ask the scout to recite the Mission Statement and then withhold their rank from them when they couldn't.

 

In the case of the vast majority of classes and student organizations, requirements (expectations) are clearly delineated.  If the School Mission Statement was so important that it would be required memory work for a grade, it should have received a good portion of class time for discussion -- and I would have expected the teacher to make some clear allusion to the importance of students knowing the mission statement.  As a high school teacher in a private Christian school, I didn't believe in spoon feeding my students.  I didn't tell them *exactly* what to study.  They knew the test would cover certain chapters and class notes/discussions -- and during those class discussions, I did high light particular things (saying things like, "This is a very important part of the chapter, or this is a good discussion on cognitive dissonance, you should be prepared to explain this concept." In other words, students who were participating in class, taking notes, etc.  NEVER failed my tests.  Students who didn't were lucky to pass.  Extra credit items were usually a bit more random -- but I never made something the major part of a quiz or a test if I hadn't made it important for the class in the first part.

 

OP -- you haven't done anything wrong.  I'm sorry for these bumps along the way -- transitions are always difficult.  I also agree, that I wouldn't move a student for one "bad" grade.  I'm disjointed that the teachers wouldn't give you ideas of how you could help your kids.  Your children do need to learn to advocate for themselves -- but I wouldn't hesitate to help either.  My oldest son just started high school -- I've been having to coach him on the process of preparation, study and self-advocacy. When he followed my instructions he got an "A" -- but when he didn't take those same instructions and apply them to a different course, he got a "C."  I'm not going to the teacher to change his "C" -- because he had the tools and knew how to use them, he just didn't.  

 

From what you've said, I believe your DD will rise to the occasion and do very well. I would take things with your son a bit more carefully.  And yes, not every student can be an "A" student in honors courses -- so that wouldn't be my expectation.  The question is if they enjoy the depth more and are willing to possibly take a lower grade to have that.

[stephanie]

Honestly, this kind of stuff is why I am glad that my ds decided to homeschool for high school.  I mean, a test on the mission statement that she's never seen, I would never expect a 14 or 15 yr old to think of asking to see that before stepping foot in the classroom.  That is the kind of stuff that drives me batty.  The point of a class should be to learn and improve and expand your knowledge, not to try to trick you into silly things.  (I do NOT mean a mission statement is silly.  A mission statement is awesome, but if she was going to be tested on it, for a grade, then the expectation should have been given up front, especially on something like that.)  I honestly think that it just comes from that mentality of thinking that if we actually trust kids to learn, they will fail, so we have to make sure they "learn their lesson" and so on.  If I had been that teacher, and saw that he left the back side of the paper blank, in the first week of school of all times, instead of assuming the child was lazy or negligent, I would have asked him if he saw the back side.

 

I have to respectfully disagree that you should be hands off if this is their first outside class.  In fact, I think you are in a better position than anyone to really help them get what they need out of the class and help them to learn the study skills, time management, and confidence they need to succeed in future courses.  My ds is also taking a few outside courses this year, and I was actually thinking that for these past few weeks.  I was thinking that I am glad we have the freedom and flexibility to help him through this transition as he needs it.  I don't mean hovering and being in control of everything.  But it is a transition, and I personally think we have this completely different and unfair expectation for kids that we wouldn't have for adults.  How would an adult be treated when training for a new job?  If I go and get a job at Petco and I am assigned to the lizard section, but it is also my job to feed the cats, but no one tells me I am supposed to feed the cats, am I supposed to somehow magically know that I should feed the cats?

 

I think you are in a tough position, but I think it sounds like you are doing an awesome job of helping them through this. 

 

I agree, I think they need help from me in this. I don't mean to completely control every aspect, but I feel it's my job to help them understand the difference in pace, to learn how to study ahead of time, in spare time, remind them of expectations of teachers. It's not in my nature to sit and watch them fail because they should be doing this at their age. Dd is great. She keeps up with things, with very little assist from me. I only remind her of tests/due dates, and she goes with it. Ds, otoh, he's quite different, and I'm working with him on this. I've always received emails from teachers saying that parent involvement is key in the kids success. So, I plan to be involved, and ease them to more independence as they can handle it.

[FloridaLisa]

My oldest had some slight transition issues when he dual-enrolled his junior year that I didn't anticipate. He was very bright, curious, very well read and we had done some rigorous courses (home-grown and online APs with other outside courses). He needed to adjust to tailoring all of that to fit a classroom situation.  He needed to learn how to figure a teacher out, how to figure out what different teachers expected in their class, how to study for their tests in particular and how to juggle multiple semester finals.  He transitioned beautifully, as did so many of his homeschooled friends. 

 

I think you'll find that, absent any teacher bias, your dc will adjust and these baubles won't be reflected in the final grade.  Let the final grades, your dc's work ethic, their character toward their peers and teachers, speak for all that you've taught them at home.  I'm sure these teachers are reserving judgment because they don't know what you've done. They may well have seen some bad homeschool cases (they're out there).  

 

After hearing that, my daughter took that as a challenge and aced all the tests in her class this week. :hurray:

 

 

 

This shows you're doing a great job. Daughter challenged, daughter stepped up, daughter aced.  There you go.

 

Lisa

[kiana]

Above and Beyond for the course they are taking, not quizzes on random, unrelated things.  And yes, a quiz in an English class over Memorizing a handbook mission statement would qualify, IMO. Basing grades upon things students have no idea they are supposed to be responsible for does nothing to foster learning, and makes getting grades a bit of luck.  This is no different than having a pop quiz on a book not assigned or listed on the syllabus.  Until I had children, I routinely read (and re-read) 50-100 books a year (outside of school requirements), but that doesn't mean I was reading the same books as my classmates or my teacher.  Had one of my Honors English teachers started class and said, "Well, you are all supposed to be reading at least 1 book a month outside of course requirements, so we are going to have a QUIZ based upon the James Joyce novel, "Ulysses," because the teacher read that book over the weekend, but I had been reading The Scarlet Letter -- that would be equally unfair.  I was reading (as per the instructions), I was going "above and beyond" what the course requires -- but I would always be at the mercy of the whim of a teacher.  I could NEVER win, unless I just happened to get lucky.

 

Agree.

 

Getting quizzed FOR A GRADE on something not germane to the class??? What an incredibly stupid thing to do.

 

That being said, telling the teacher it's dumb isn't going to win any friends.

[Murphy101]

Haven't read replies, but really I think you should have redirected the conversation to the reason you were there.

 

You wanted to know what they needed to do or what they needed to focus on to succeed.

 

And instead of telling you any of that, it sounds like the teacher took it upon herself to rant about home schoolers.

 

Which was both disrespectful and not helpful.

 

:/

[Murphy101]

A lot of it was careless mistakes that can be fixed. It's funny you mention ridiculous tests because dd's English teacher tested them on 3rd day of school on the Mission statement of the school. No notice at all. Being that dd has never been there, and no one really memorizes mission statements, she made a 0...yep, a 0 and it was added into her average. Ds had a chem test on safety/equiptment and he overlooked the back side of the page and missed all the ones on that side. So he didn't do well. I pleaded with the teacher after ds went in early in morn to see if he could correct it and get points taken off and she wouldn't do it. That kind of stuff baffles me, but I guess it's just a hard lesson in thoroughness for ds.

Absolutely not. My kids would be mortified if I even spoke to their teacher about it. By high school, they have to own their screw ups and just learn from it.

 

Based in your further descriptions, I don't think they are ready for honors yet. Your dd might be once she gets her school feet under her, but I think your son needs a year in the standard course first.

 

I don't think this is a failure. It's just learning the ropes for all of you. :) (((hugs)))

[kiana]

Absolutely not. My kids would be mortified if I even spoke to their teacher about it. By high school, they have to own their screw ups and just learn from it.

 

Agree on this.

 

FTR, I wouldn't have let him fix it either, if I were teaching. A quiz is a very low-stakes way to learn to read the directions and check both sides of the paper. Learning this BEFORE College is a good thing.

[Tree Frog]

I agree, I think they need help from me in this. I don't mean to completely control every aspect, but I feel it's my job to help them understand the difference in pace, to learn how to study ahead of time, in spare time, remind them of expectations of teachers. It's not in my nature to sit and watch them fail because they should be doing this at their age. Dd is great. She keeps up with things, with very little assist from me. I only remind her of tests/due dates, and she goes with it. Ds, otoh, he's quite different, and I'm working with him on this. I've always received emails from teachers saying that parent involvement is key in the kids success. So, I plan to be involved, and ease them to more independence as they can handle it.

 

I highlighted the bolded because it's important. "Involved parents" means different things depending on the age of the child. When they're in high school, the parents should be in the background, encouraging their kids to handle the situation, not handling the situation for them. The students need to learn how to ask questions, sometimes pushing to have their questions answered if the teacher doesn't seem so inclined. Sometimes the students have to learn how to respectfully challenge the teacher. Sometimes they have to learn what the best way to study for a particular class is. My kids have had to email their teachers from home if they forgot to ask them a question. I've found in general teachers respond very positively to the student's email.

 

As far as the tests go, I have kids who are currently in the public school system, 10th and 8th grades. The oldest is in all honors courses with the exception of two AP courses. She has panicked because she hasn't scored well with her first tests. I've needed to remind her that she's still learning what the teachers' expectations are and how they test. Once she figures that out, things will be a little easier. It sounds like this is what your high schoolers are learning. It takes a few weeks to learn what is expected and how things are run. Your daughter has figured out what makes the teacher tick and is doing well. It might take your son a little longer. If you're confident he can handle the material, give him the space to figure out the rest. He'll eventually catch on to the nuances and that will benefit him as much as or more than the academic material.

[EKS]

The expectation for honors is 'above and beyond'....not just do as told.

I completely disagree with this. The expectation for an honors course should be that the work assigned is more challenging, that discussions are at a higher level, and that there is more work overall. The nebulous above and beyond thing takes the responsibility for designing and implementing an actual honors level course off of the teacher and puts it on the student without defining what the expectations are, which is totally ridiculous. Just another reason we homeschool. Seriously, life is too short to deal with that mentality.