Please help me work through this. I am beyond confused...

[DB in NJ]

My sweet hubby is a sheet metal worker by trade. The work is ridiculously spotty. In 25 years of marriage, work has NEVER been a steady, stable thing.

 

I am so very tired of the instability and the uncertainty. A nice, steady pay check would be a dream come true.

 

Have you or your husband made a career change at this age? DH is an ordained pastor, but he does not have a degree. He was ordained at our church after sitting for an ordination council of pastors and missionaries (all of whom have masters and/or doctorates). Just saying all of that so you don't think he is a mail-order pastor ;) He is more than halfway to his bachelor's degree, but with work being like it is, there is no way we can afford to keep sending him to school. When he's working, he doesn't have time for school; when he isn't working, we don't have the money. 

 

We own a home worth over $300,000. We owe just over $80,000 on the mortgage. Taxes are obscene (about $10,000 a year). We would like to sell the house and get something smaller, but all 3 kids still live at home. Oldest ds is working in West Virginia until election day, and then he'll be home and unemployed again. Also, if we were to sell this house, we could buy something outright where the taxes are lower and have no mortgage, but what does that do for your credit? Is anyone familiar with such a situation? I have friends who haven't had a mortgage in over 10 years, and they can't get a loan for their kids for school or for a car.

 

The union kind of owns you -- if you aren't familiar with how it works. It would cost us money to leave it, and we would be foolish to leave this area unless it were to transfer to another local. With the economy and construction being as they are, no locals are taking transfers. We cannot just walk away from the benefits.

 

I feel so stuck. I wish Something gloriously wonderful could just happen for us and we would know exactly what to do and where to go and live happily ever after. Foolish, I know. But a girl can dream.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wintermom]

It's really tough trying to make career change decisions later in life, I think. The cost of education vs years to work and employment opportunities aren't usually favourable, but perhaps with a profession like pastor the age factor isn't as big an issue. You dh could probably get a job and keep working at it for longer than his sheet metal position in the long run. I'm not sure just how physically demanding the job he's in right now and how his body is holding up. It would probably be a good move.

 

Personally, I'd go for no mortgage over having a mortgage and high property tax. I think if you still have and use credit cards then your credit rating should be current. You can check with your bank, though.

[Lolly]

:grouphug: 

 

Not having a mortgage shouldn't cause your credit rating to crash. I am guessing your friend with no mortgage had some...difficulties...that were showing on their report. As long as you are paying your bills you should hold your rating. Having, and responsibly using, a credit card doesn't hurt. 

[JustEm]

How close do you live to DE?  Could moving there and him commuting be a possibility?  I know many people who do this but its only really people who work in southern NJ.  The taxes would change drastically.

[displace]

If you're in NJ as your name suggests, I'd move in a heartbeat to a lower COL area if possible (out of the DC to Boston metropolis area for optimal cost cutting).  Honestly, we moved from a two full-time income family (in Mid Atlantic) to a one-income family in the South.  Lower taxes (state and property) have made a huge difference in our quality of life.  Home prices are also very different.  We moved into a similar priced home but easily could have gotten a much less expensive home.  Even though our home cost was similar to where we used to live, it's about 50 years newer, with much less maintenance and landscaping costs, saving us even more money. 

 

If possible, I'd consider other trades where he or you may be able to train, as well as certificate type of careers for either you or him.  Especially consider jobs either one of you can do from home.  This helps with lowering commute costs, in-office expenses (wardrobes, lunches), and can be "portable" when you move.  IDK how much a pastor makes, but I don't think it's much.  Consider asking the older boys for contributions to rent, phones, cable, etc if you're not comfortable charging rent.  I'm a believer in it's never too late to learn something new, and if your DH doesn't have much invested in his career (financially like a pension payment after another few years or awesome 401K benefits), it may be worthwhile to change it up. 

 

I agree with PP that your credit should not be adversely affected by mortgage payments.  You can also open a credit card and make full payments on it for regular expenses to help with your credit.  You can look up reports, but IIRC credit is mostly affected by negative late payments, multiple recent new credit lines, etc.

[GinaPagnato]

I have no suggestions, but I can hear the weariness in your post. So, here's a :grouphug: .

Praying God shows you both clear direction.

[displace]

P.S. that union thing sounds weird.  Is it like a contract?  Is there an "out" if he leaves the field totally?  It may still be worth it but you'd have to go over your financials to see how long it would take to make it worth it.  For instance, if you have to pay X, how many months would living in new city A take you to save that amount?  Also, I noticed your youngest is in high school.  Maybe you could consider part time certificate training and/or work if he has independent stuff or dual enrollment?

 

P.P.S. -- I don't mean to imply you should start working if that's not right for your family.  But it may be an option to help during transition times while your DH is looking for a new career, moving, etc, just to help.

[Mrs Mungo]

Just throwing out ideas, but has he thought about maybe attending community college/tech college to get additional certifications? Is that a possibility? Would it help keep him busy more of the year? Like, if he got an HVAC certification, would that help keep him busier in the winter, but not so busy that he couldn't take a class or two at a time? It is worth considering that there are programs out there for "non-traditional" students going back to school. You would probably have to ask at your local school though as they are different in different states.

[fairfarmhand]

I've heard New Orleans needs construction workers and they are paying well.

[bolt.]

In your shoes, I'd keep the house, take a bigger mortgage against it, enough to act as a student loan (for his remaining credit hours in ministry if he's employable afterwards, or in another field) and a 6 or 12 month emergency fund (kept an investment-savings account). That would be maybe $40,000 in addition to your current 80?

 

Pay your taxes monthly -- though that is astronomical -- I just hate the idea of moving. If you move, keep enough room for your family and take out a mortgage for the above purposes, even if you don't need it for actually buying the house.

 

Mortgage payments will be higher on the bigger mortgage, but the emergency fund will help cover things on lean months, and can be topped up during working months. Choose a long term to keep payments low. You can save up an pay out if you end up more flush than you could have reasonably counted on.

 

Owning property and leveraging its value by taking on a mortgage payment against it is an excellent way to get ahead if you just need to get over a hump -- like a career transition. (It's one of the reasons that property is a great investment for most people.)

[DB in NJ]

I wish you could all come sit in my living room and go over this slowly with me. I am an emotional mess and can't think straight. I am missing my mother dearly (she left us three years ago, but I don't think I will ever get used to her being gone). She always took us on vacation the day after labor day. I have recently been rejected, yet again, by my father. And I am in menopause (my estrogen level is 6).

 

Ok....moving on.

 

HVAC work would definitely be more steady but in Jersey, you work through the plumbers & pipe fitters union not the sheet metal workers. That would mean starting over with training, etc. and walking away from a pension we are invested in. Plus buying his union card (a few thousand dollars, if I remember correctly).

 

Our oldest pays for his own insurance and his data for his phone. My dd can't afford to pay us anything, but she buys her own stuff (except food).

 

We do pay the taxes monthly, which makes it more manageable, but it's over $800 a month. Right now, I am paying our mortgage with money I inherited. It will eventually run out and then we'll really be in a bind.

 

Thanks for your input. I feel a bit like Clair Dunphy when she said, "Why does everything have to suck?!"

[Mrs Mungo]

HVAC work would definitely be more steady but in Jersey, you work through the plumbers & pipe fitters union not the sheet metal workers. That would mean starting over with training, etc. and walking away from a pension we are invested in. Plus buying his union card (a few thousand dollars, if I remember correctly).

He can't be both?

[bolt.]

If you are living on inheritance, that is a huge motive to *USE* this phase to get (either of you) into trained, valuable, steady employment -- which will have a cost outlay, but *NO* lifestyle is sustainable (at any cost-of-living) unless one if you can be reliably employed.

 

Lowering your cost of living by moving might be an important part of a plan, but your primary focus needs to be a sustainable future income stream. Aim at that, spend money towards it, borrow money to achieve it. No dreams, passions or vocations. It needs to have a paycheck. It's best if it's something he's already started (something within his current union, something connected to his 1/2 bachelor's) but anything will do.

 

Brainstorm things that you take a year of schooling then start, or things that pay you and train you.

[Alessandra]

When your youngest is through high school, you might want to get out of NJ. Property taxes, income tax, sales tax, estate tax, inheritance tax.

[ZeeMommy]

My husband has made three career changes.  One was while we were married with two small children, about 5 years ago.   He would have been about 39 years old then.  He was a real estate  agent until  the market crashed.  It took awhile for him to find a steady job, and even then he had to start out on a production line on third shift.  He also had to change from being in HVAC to real estate when he wrecked his bicep and couldn't do HVAC work any longer.  Thankfully his job is stable now, not third shift, and he enjoys it. 

 

Maybe there's some other kind of job that your husband could take?  Could he use his sheet metal skills to make stuff when he's not at work/busy to sell on his own?  Any other skills/jobs that he could do for other people when his schedule is open?  Could he do HVAC work on the side, independently and for individuals, without getting in trouble with the union?  Sometimes people would be willing to hire a "handyman" to get a job done right for a little less instead of hiring a company to do it.

 

Maybe you could look around for a smaller house in the area that has smaller square footage but still enough bedrooms and baths for everyone?  How well are homes selling where you live and would you be willing to wait awhile for it to sell?  You can look on www.mls.com (the multiple listing for real estate) to get an idea for what's going on in your area.

 

For his bachelor's degree (assuming for pastor), could he look for another college that has lower tuition & etc? 

 

If you go by what Dave Ramsey says, credit scores aren't worth that much, just a measure of how much debt you have.  If you had less bills and mortgage and taxes, then you'd be ahead or at least a little more comfortable financially, no matter what any bank might say.  And less bills equals less stress.

 

Would you be willing to take some kind of part time job for awhile, to help catch up on mortgage and etc? 

 

Where there's a will, there's a way.  Breathe, go find something outrageously funny, make a list of all the blessings that you do have.  Ignore the rejecting father awhile, find something to help you through menopause.  Thank your husband for everything he has been able to do.  All is not lost yet, just crappy and cloudy and confusing! 

 

 

[DB in NJ]

Well, the only debt we have is the house. We have one credit card and pay it off every month. Our credit ratings are very high (over 800). Our monthly bills are doable.

 

I am looking for part-time work. DH is preaching as a fill-in every Sunday and getting paid for that, thankfully. I'd love to be able to finish the next three years of homeschooling and then go back to work full-time so we can breathe and quit taking money from the inheritance.

 

I would love to go back to school for medical billing or some such thing, but gosh I hate to spend the money! I love what one of you said about focusing on a future stream of income and doing what it takes to achieve that.

 

Back to square one - do we sell this house now, downsize, and use the extra money for school? Or do I .,... what? I just need someone to tell me what to do. I am overwhelmed.

[shage]

Do you have marketable skills?

 

Honesty, if you are planning to transition to the workforce, it might make more sense for your husband to continue his career as is, and you get whatever training you need to supplement the income.  Since you will probably be starting at an entry level career anyway, there is less to give up.

 

ETA. I have taught many nontraditional students (read: older students) and my unscientific observation is that women tend to do midlife career changes better than men especially if they are coming from stay-at-home-mom backgrounds.  You already know how to budget your time and balance a gazillion different demands. 

 

[TechWife]

What about moving to an area where unions aren't prevalent, such as in the southeast? 

[DB in NJ]

I believe I do have marketable skills. I was a secretary in my former life with a background in hospitality, corporate, and legal.

 

Honestly, the one suggestion that is resonating is for me to get some updated training so I can hit the ground running when I need to.

 

I feel better already!!

[DB in NJ]

Moving away has its benefits, but leaving the union will come at a cost we cannot afford.

[ZeeMommy]

Selling the house now might depend on the market, what the house would potentially sell for (not necessarily the price listed), what housing is available for purchase and where you'd want to buy, and how long you'd be willing to wait for your house to sell. 

 

You've homeschooled, I'm assuming, for a long time!  :)  So right now, you're probably pretty good at instructing others.  Could you find work as a tutor?  I think I'd take a current stream of income now - there's got to be something that you are excellent at, that you can make money at right now.  Income always doesn't require a huge expensive degree.  Look into local community colleges; their programs are geared more towards job skills, and their tuition is usually less expensive than other places. 

 

In the meantime, I'll go look for  my magic wand and send it to you!  :)

[displace]

I am sorry you are going through so much now.  It may be helpful to take the weekend off from thoughtful planning to grieve if you need to :(  Don't make any decisions when you're feeling too overwhelmed. 

Maybe it would be easier for you if you had some hard and fast numbers?  Consider making a spreadsheet of your expenses (if you don't have one already).  Expand it to include other scenarios: staying in NJ but a smaller home, moving to a cheaper state, paying off the union, going to school, getting certificates for training, etc.  Think of areas in your life where maybe you could not be affected so much by the salary fluctuations.  For instance cutting back expenses as you're able to help.

 

IDK much about medical billing, but that sounds like something you could do on-line, or maybe a local CC.  You could take that as a starting point and see how long it would take to accomplish, how much it would cost, what it would pay, etc.   

 

I have to say, if he "only" needs to pay a few thousand to get out of his union contract, and if you were to move to a no income tax state, that cost would be recovered within only a few months, assuming a comparable new job.  This doesn't include any pension benefits he may lose, which may be considerable.  And every month you lived there (if all other costs were the same), you would effectively gain $800 in income just from state income taxes.  I would never recommend moving lightly, but if you're considering it already, it may be beneficial to really research it.  About 1.5 years ago I was doing our taxes and discovered how expensive it was to live where we were, in very objective scary numbers.  It prompted our shift in mentality and our decision to move.  Of course if you live near family now that would totally change matters and not make the decision easy.  Family should not be taken lightly.

 

I wish we could tell you what to do.  Have you had a heart to heart with DH?  Maybe he doesn't realize how much this means to you.  I would guess you have but obviously the both of you will have to brainstorm together. 

 

Here is a link to a blog you may find helpful (to an article discussing housing costs and where people live with regards to finances and finding a place to live that's good for you.  In general the site promotes thrifty living, saving, and investing): http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/05/09/stashtown-usa

 

I think getting some hard financial numbers down may help clarify things.  For instance, if paying the union off, getting X certificate or degree (etc) all costs a certain amount of money, and based on a new salary in the new field it would take 10 years to pay off the new debt, it may seem to be an easier decision.  I can't speak for the lack of security you may be feeling though, which is a personal choice and messes up with hard numbers. 

 

I truly hope enough people get some ideas going for you that it may be useful.  Sometimes having other perspectives helps me to clarify what I want. 

 

ETA -- you can probably ignore a lot of this as I didn't see your update before I posted this :)

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: I get your situation, hugs to you and your dh as you navigate these waters. 

[MomToJazmyne]

Is your husband able to get his travel card? Just FYI, my husbands union is accepting transfers.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Similar situation, husband leaving home on Monday for six months (except for most weekends, I hope but don't know) to work in a neighboring state having beat out 300 others for a very temporary job.

All options stink, for similar reasons, especially about barely-grown kids being potentially scattered by any major family move, and about the unaffordable house that we can't afford to lose.

I'll add prayers for your family to my list. I'm sorry this the reality for you, and for me, and for so many. :(

[DB in NJ]

Is your husband able to get his travel card? Just FYI, my husbands union is accepting transfers.

He will be calling on Tuesday to look into it. Which union is your dh with?

[DB in NJ]

Similar situation, husband leaving home on Monday for six months (except for most weekends, I hope but don't know) to work in a neighboring state having beat out 300 others for a very temporary job.

 

All options stink, for similar reasons, especially about barely-grown kids being potentially scattered by any major family move, and about the unaffordable house that we can't afford to lose.

 

I'll add prayers for your family to my list. I'm sorry this the reality for you, and for me, and for so many. :(

YES!!! Scattering the family is a huge consideration. Thank you for praying. Know that I will be praying for your family, too.

[Liz CA]

I also want to encourage you to look into certs and additional education in a field that could lead to where he is headed with his bachelors. For instance, he could be an engineering technician instead of an engineer and work as such and then take evening or online classes - one at a time if necessary. He will still graduate.

I am all for returning to college especially if you know what you want to do and where you are going and you are not just getting "some" degree.

Think of the peace of mind to spend your remaining working years - or your remaining life if you do not plan to formally retire - in an area you love versus just somewhere where you get a paycheck now and then.

 

Dh did this in his mid-thirties and we have not regretted it. We thought back then, it was rather late for a college degree but it is never too late if you know you want to change your path. We have never regretted it even though he had some loans.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think walking away from a pension would be a very poor choice.

 

This is a major concern that keeps us in the game! DH is too old to start over on a pension. Also, as scarce as the work is, the connections remain valuable. My dh's hard-earned reputation and work record have traveled across several states, followed him to jobs, helped him get more training, and led him to obscure offers (like the one he's pursuing next).

 

It's not nearly what we hoped for (because we hoped for steady work! and that's what the market could bear, for a LONG time and we got used to it) but it's not nothing, either. Healthcare benefits, pension plan, and connections -- we need these so we keep trying to work within the union and with these friends who have been excellent co-workers for a couple of decades. Not union bosses, liberal union thugs, political pawns OR lobbies -- but friends.

 

ETA: My DH is not in the same trade as the OP's DH.

[MomToJazmyne]

He will be calling on Tuesday to look into it. Which union is your dh with?

Local 404

All the way down in Texas.

[wellread]

I don't think paying off a mortgage will hurt your credit rating.  If you need to have more items on your report, get another credit card and use it and pay it completely off monthly.  Also, IMHO, at some point it is better to actually be financial sound rather than to "look" a certain way on your credit report. 

 

If you belong to a credit union, someone there might be able to explain the factors that go into creating/keeping a good credit rating.  I'm pretty sure that having credit cards improves your credit rating -- but I would never ever ever ever pay interest on a credit card (and that means paying it off every month). (Did I mention never ever pay interest on a credit card ? :laugh:)

 

Is downsizing to another house, but staying in your area a possibility, so you only make one change?  (or is that not really enough?) 

 

My approach is that if I can't increase my income, to try to reduce my expenses.  Wealth is spending less than you make. 

 

When my income changed, I wrote down all our expenses and then starting cutting -- even the stuff I thought I needed (like a cell phone).  I was ruthless-- I decided to pay the cell phone company the charge for ending the contract early.  At first I resisted that as I was "losing money", but then I started to see it as just a cost to help save money.  I have one of those pay as you go emergency cells now (which I hardly ever use).  Now I can't believe how hooked I was on a  cell phone.  This is just an example, and if it is not helpful to you, please ignore it-- you seem to have a lot on your plate!

 

I'm sorry you are in this fix.  You don't have to solve it all at once.  Sometimes when I am overwhelmed I pick just one small thing to do that is clearly right and then do that.   And it might turn out that the 'clearly right' thing to do isn't about jobs or money. 

 

I agree with the folks who recommend writing down the various options and putting money figures (plus and minus on them).   I also would guestimate certainty-- in other words, spending xxxx in hopes of gaining yyyyy might be certain (like spend 100 to cancel a cell phone but not have to pay 500 for the rest of the year), or uncertain (spending xxxxx for education in hopes of gaining yyyyy in salary could be very uncertain).  Try to keep this task becoming overwhelming -- and when you finish it you still don't have to do something immediately.   It sounds like by thinking about your tax expenses, etc you are already doing some of this-- so that is great.  Jotting down the options on paper can free your mind to think about the next idea/expense/option.

 

As far as schooling--sometimes once you have a job the job will pay for some schooling.

 

I hope it goes well for you and your family.  And pat yourself on the back that you are facing these issues squarely and thinking about them.  That is a huge plus right there. 

[Ripley]

Can your husband spend time developing an online ministry presence?

A blog, podcast, e-newsletters, ... that sort of thing.

He's doing fill-in preaching, what about being something of a Christian mentor?

Or running workshops or talk series at area churches and organizations?

It might not see an immediate profit, but it could work with his erratic work schedule.

And it may give a little bit of supplemental income to help offset someone's tuition.

 

Speaking of tuition, has he looked to his union for scholarships?

My union offered some pretty significant scholarships.

We were a small union, representing one work group at one company.

Many of them required full-time student status, but not all of them did!

How about scholarships through the church, especially if his degree can benefit the organization.

 

It sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place.

That always leaves me so overwhelmed, so I can't imagine how you're feeling.

:grouphug: I hope things clear up soon, and you're able to put these challenges behind you!

 

[Mama Geek]

My brother has been working in the sheet metal union for the last 6 years in SC.  He has been at the same place although their work is dependent on government funding so they are scared every year about what congress will do, however there are several other areas that the union tells my brother that there is work.  Has he looked into working sheet metal in a different area of the country?  The COL in SC I would expect is much lower in NJ.

[PrincessMommy]

I believe I do have marketable skills. I was a secretary in my former life with a background in hospitality, corporate, and legal.

 

Honestly, the one suggestion that is resonating is for me to get some updated training so I can hit the ground running when I need to.

 

I feel better already!!

 

Your youngest is 15 - I would definitely look at getting trained for something you can do at home.  Milovany does something like this with college transcripts for the deaf (I think???).   She works it around her dh's job and kid's hs schedules. PM her and ask her about it.   Also, my dd's psychiatrist seems to have a "receptionist" that works from home.  She does all the scheduling either by phone or internet... and probably any billing stuff.  There's no receptionist at the office though, so I'm assuming it's some nice at-home work she does for several independent doctors.

 

I would not rely on a pastor's job unless you were part of a denomination which takes care of it's pastors in some way (Lutheran, Episcopalian, EO).  I personally think that kind of job is as unstable as what he's doing now.  I know, and have heard of, several who got the boot from their churches, and because they were non-denom. they were on their own.  It's nice he's got a temp. job.  It sounds like a nice way to use his skills without making it a career.  That's just me though.

[DB in NJ]

This is a major concern that keeps us in the game! DH is too old to start over on a pension. Also, as scarce as the work is, the connections remain valuable. My dh's hard-earned reputation and work record have traveled across several states, followed him to jobs, helped him get more training, and led him to obscure offers (like the one he's pursuing next).

 

It's not nearly what we hoped for (because we hoped for steady work! and that's what the market could bear, for a LONG time and we got used to it) but it's not nothing, either. Healthcare benefits, pension plan, and connections -- we need these so we keep trying to work within the union and with these friends who have been excellent co-workers for a couple of decades. Not union bosses, liberal union thugs, political pawns OR lobbies -- but friends.

 

ETA: My DH is not in the same trade as the OP's DH.

Oh yes, this! Even though it's two different unions, we have the same story. I am glad that you understand.

 

DH's work has never taken him out if state, but those connections and his good reputation and work ethic have gotten him called off the out-of-work list by name every single time. Work is just very scarce right now.

 

You all have helped me so much. As of right now, I think moving to a lower tax house, me getting certified or earning a degree so I can have a steady stream of income doing something I LOVE for the next 20 years, and dh riding out the union work by continuing to do pulpit supply when he can and handyman work (which he is very good at!) - all while continuing toward his bachelors sounds like a plan!

 

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

 

Now about my father...... :/

[Wheres Toto]

If you were a secretary the easiest path may be to make sure your computer skills are up-to-date and work through a temp agency or recruiter to get a foot in the door.  If you can learn Powerpoint really well, the pharmaceutical companies (of which there are a TON in NJ) LOVE Powerpoint.  And it's still not something that every admin already knows. 

[redsquirrel]

My friend in a somewhat similar situation hired a financial adviser. This guy is a tax lawyer and helped them with estate planning and creating financial goals. She was very careful to hire a someone who had a lot of experience with this and was very happy. She said he was worth every penny. He was able to answer all those kinds of questions and help them make a real plan they could live with and would help them reach their goals. They go back to see him every could years to address changes in their family, changes in goals etc.

 

I also agree that walking away from a pension isn't a good financial decision at your stage in life. But, a financial planner might see it differently.

 

The COL in NJ is just insane.

[SharonM]

I went back to school at age 56. I will be 5months short of 59 when I finish. I think that the debt I am adding on is more than worth it because I cannot make a decent wage without it. We need me to be working for at least 10 years b4 we retire. (at least that was our plan when I started, but now dh is unemployed) You may not want school loans but, it is the quickest  way to better pay and hopefully more stable income. I vote continue school and then he wont need to stay with the union.( I am assuming the he would be moving to a different type of work all together?)