Teens that are resistant to bedtime.

[fairfarmhand]

I have a teen who is a pretty busy girl. So she can't sleep late most mornings (work and school) and she has activities most afternoons.

 

however, she's VERY resistant to me telling her to go to bed.

 

And she's quite a bear when she doesn't get enough rest.

She gets weepy, whiny, and irritable and she blames everyone else in the house for it.

 

Anyone else dealing with this?

 

I am tired of her digging in at bedtime. I know she's tired because of the way she's acting.

 

HELP!

[JustEm]

I was kind of like this as a teen. My parents firmly told me that if I was unable to wake up on time and regulate my own sleep then I could not do the extra activities I wanted to do. So working would not have been an option nor any sports or other activities. I never did start going to bed early but I did learn how to function on less sleep.

[fairfarmhand]

She can function when out of the house. Its the treatment of others that suffers when she is tired.

[ThisIsTheDay]

She's 16, according to your sig. 

I'd be inclined (and did with my older and am doing with my 16yo) to ditch bedtime, but he does have to get up at a specific time each morning.  However, there's no way I'd give him the option if he were rude to anyone in the family.  One's mood is just not accepted as an excuse.

I've start relaxing most rules by this age, as long as certain responsibilities are met.  I'd rather have them learn to be independent while they are still home, instead of waiting until they are 18 or go off to school.

The deal breaker is her attitude toward the family when she's tired, and I would tell her that until that changes and changes permanently, she'll need to stick to a parent-imposed bedtime.

[prairiewindmomma]

My tween, no matter how we try to help him structure his life, cannot fall asleep before 11:30 p.m. We've gone through sleep hygiene, melatonin, diet, exercise, the whole 9 yards....  We've chosen to restructure his day. If he can't get up and be pleasant, then other stuff needs to slide off the schedule. It has. He has one main activity outside of chores and school.  He sleeps in until 9am now, wakes and does his morning chores, then hits the books. He eats at 9, and we've pushed back lunch until 1pm.  There are still times when he is overtired, and he is sent off for a nap.  He has grown 6 inches in the past year, and I suspect he's got several more to go.

 

This morning he woke up completely braindead. He spent an hour out weeding the garden and yard for his daily chores. His brain usually kicks in around 10 am, today it was 11:30.

 

Treating others poorly is not ok. The reins would get yanked back a bit at our house if she continued to persist in being nasty....not in a punitive way, but in a "I know you're tired. I know it's hard to get to sleep. How do you propose you handle your schedule, because sniping at us is not going to continue."

[Catwoman]

If this is your 16yo, I'm surprised that she still has a designated bedtime.

 

What time would you like her to go to bed?

[JustEm]

She can function when out of the house. Its the treatment of others that suffers when she is tired.

Then you tell her that if she can't treat her family with respect because she's too tired then her other activities are put on hold until she learns to regulate her sleep to a point where she can act respectfully. If she doesn't think its because she's too tired then you cut out activities until she learns to respect the family for whatever reason she feels she treats them poorly.

[Ottakee]

I would get out of the power struggle but make a few rules:

 

She needs to be in her room at ............time (whatever is reasonable)

 

She can not take it out on others in the family or she will be sent to her room

 

You can't make her sleep but she needs to let others in the house sleep (and you and dh have some quiet at night if you want that) and she can't make life miserable for others.

 

I honestly send my highschool girls up to their bedroom at 8pm during the school year.  Often they are sleeping at 8:30 or so as they are up at 6am.  The basic rules are you go upstairs and are quiet.  They have a bathroom up there so no need to come downstairs................and I do have a challenging one like you do.

[Joker]

I don't tell my 14 year old dd when to go to bed, but she has to be up to go to school in the morning. Sometimes she's grouchy and irritable because she didn't get enough sleep but I just ignore it. She does get up on her own, though, or easily when we wake her so that's not an issue here.

[Mrs Mungo]

Keep in mind that science says that teenagers have a hard time getting to sleep before 10:30 or 11 due to their weird circadian rhythms. My teens have to be in their rooms by 10:30 so that I can get ready for bed. They have to get up by 8. If they are a mess the next day due to clearly staying up way too late, then they have to go to bed with their lights out at 10 that night.

 

A lot of people who don't have teens yet don't realize how much sleep teens need or how VERY horrid they can be without decent sleep. Horrid, horrid, horrid. Luckily, you can always insist that they take a nap when you homeschool, I do that sometimes too. Teens have weird sleep cycles and hormones and then when moms of teens have their own hormonal issues, whew, I know how ugly it can get, BELIEVE ME. Brush off the people commenting who haven't actually experienced any of this yet, LOL.

[KungFuPanda]

Does she have access to screens late at night? If she's not allowed to use a TV or computer past 10 p.m., she might get bored enough to sleep. If that doesn't work, you ban lights. "Stay up as late as you want in the dark, kiddo." Make sure her phone is charging in YOUR room.

 

I've read that a few days of camping will reset your natural clock. My kids old reset themselves to avoid camping.

[KungFuPanda]

OMG, What Mrs Mungo said. If they don't have teens, and have never had teens, just smile, nod, and ignore their advice. They have no idea. Just the experience of being a teen doesn't count because their brains are wacky and they have NO IDEA it's them and not the whole rest of the world that's off.

[catz]

For a month this summer my teen had to be out the door early.  He set his alarm every day for 7:30.  After the first week, he started falling asleep at a more reasonable time (and that's probably like around 10ish).  We are going to try that for school this year.  He was in this habit of staying up past 11 and not wanting to get up until 9ish.  I don't regulate what he does in his room (although no electronics in there), but I do send him in there. 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Does she have access to screens late at night? If she's not allowed to use a TV or computer past 10 p.m., she might get bored enough to sleep. If that doesn't work, you ban lights. "Stay up as late as you want in the dark, kiddo." Make sure her phone is charging in YOUR room.

 

I've read that a few days of camping will reset your natural clock. My kids old reset themselves to avoid camping.

 

That is a good point.

 

One thing that may be coming into play is her LOOOONNNGGGG getting ready for bed routine. I swear she can spend 30 minutes taking off makeup and brushing teeth!

 

Perhaps a suggestion right after supper to go ahead and get ready for bed while she may stay up for another hour (we eat late) might help. I wonder if she's so tired that she really doesn't want to get off the couch and get ready for bed. This is how it almost seems. She looks tired, acts tired, but just won't get up and go get ready to turn in.

 

I really need my children to be in their rooms by nine. My dh and I are dreadful introverts and we both need time alone and also with one another. 3 of my 4 are extroverts and they just wear the two of us down if we are together from 7 am to 9 pm.

 

[fairfarmhand]

Just the experience of being a teen doesn't count because their brains are wacky and they have NO IDEA it's them and not the whole rest of the world that's off.

 

Yeah, my daughter was being a real....pain (not the word I want to use) and she was standing in the kitchen screaming at the top of her lungs "Why is everyone in this house EXCEPT ME SO GROUCHY!???"

 

If it was someone else's kid It'd be almost funny!

[Ottakee]

I wonder if she's so tired that she really doesn't want to get off the couch and get ready for bed. This is how it almost seems. She looks tired, acts tired, but just won't get up and go get ready to turn in.

 

 

 

I can relate.  I often say, I am just too tired to get up and go to bed.  I think it is very reasonable that she be in her room at 9pm.  Doesn't mean she has to sleep, just needs to respect you and dh and your need for quiet.

 

[ThisIsTheDay]

Yeah, my daughter was being a real....pain (not the word I want to use) and she was standing in the kitchen screaming at the top of her lungs "Why is everyone in this house EXCEPT ME SO GROUCHY!???"

 

If it was someone else's kid It'd be almost funny!

 

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Sorry!  To me, it *is* someone else's kid, and I laughed!  (I'm still laughing, ohmygosh, doesn't that sound just like someone in my house!!)

[Catwoman]

Wow. I can't imagine requiring my 14yo ds to be in his room by 9pm. We often go out for coffee and dessert long after 9:00.

 

But we're all night owls here, so that is probably why the bedtimes all seem so early to me. :)

[fairfarmhand]

Wow. I can't imagine requiring my 14yo ds to be in his room by 9pm. We often go out for coffee and dessert long after 9:00.

 

But we're all night owls here, so that is probably why the bedtimes all seem so early to me. :)

Mercy. We seldom are out of the house after 8:30 p,m. I'm old I guess.

 

I get up around 6 and kids start getting up around 7.

[Catwoman]

Mercy. We seldom are out of the house after 8:30 p,m. I'm old I guess.

 

I get up around 6 and kids start getting up around 7.

The last we got up at 6 was when my dh had an early doctor's appointment.

 

And there was much pathetic whining and complaining from all of us. :D

 

We go to bed very late and rarely get up before 9:00.

[Ottakee]

Fairfarmhand..........I think your dd needs to go live at Cat's house.  Sounds like their schedules would mesh better :-)

[MomatHWTK]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/more-schools-consider-later-start-times-for-teenagers-1409009295

 

We are up late/sleep late here as well. 

[TammyS]

I have a teen who is a pretty busy girl. So she can't sleep late most mornings (work and school) and she has activities most afternoons.

 

however, she's VERY resistant to me telling her to go to bed.

 

And she's quite a bear when she doesn't get enough rest.

She gets weepy, whiny, and irritable and she blames everyone else in the house for it.

 

Anyone else dealing with this?

 

I am tired of her digging in at bedtime. I know she's tired because of the way she's acting.

 

HELP!

 My almost 16 year old is unbearable if he gets less than 9 hours.  My solution is all people who aren't adults must retire at 8pm.  He can read if he wants, but at 8pm, I want minors out of my hair.  There are no TVs or other electronics (or even toys) in bedrooms at our house.  So, he can read, but I've found a tired teen (he gets up at 5:45am) doesn't usually read past 9:30 very successfully, no matter how much he wants to.

 

If he gets obnoxious because he's not sleeping enough, I take the light bulb from his room.

[Catwoman]

Wow. Some of you folks are very strict with your teenagers.

 

I'm thinking of letting my ds14 read this thread to show him how good he's got it. ;)

 

I don't know any teens who have to be in their rooms by 8pm, and taking away a 16yo's lightbulb is so far from what I would ever consider doing that I don't even know what to say about it.

[Okra]

Another one whose teens don't have a bedtime.  IMO 9:00 seems pretty early for a 16 year old to head to her room.  Can she stay up and just not bother you?

 

If my teens don't get up themselves, and I have to wake them up, or they don't get up easily, then I start talking to them about getting to sleep earlier.  Otherwise, they regulate themselves.

 

I also, would never ever take a lightbulb out a teens room!  I know it's not you who said  that.  But keep this in mind,  you are trying to teach a teen how to become a functioning adult, not regulate every behavior.  My teens feel like they are in charge, and it works for us.

[Garga]

Keep in mind that science says that teenagers have a hard time getting to sleep before 10:30 or 11 due to their weird circadian rhythms. My teens have to be in their rooms by 10:30 so that I can get ready for bed. They have to get up by 8. If they are a mess the next day due to clearly staying up way too late, then they have to go to bed with their lights out at 10 that night.

 

A lot of people who don't have teens yet don't realize how much sleep teens need or how VERY horrid they can be without decent sleep. Horrid, horrid, horrid. Luckily, you can always insist that they take a nap when you homeschool, I do that sometimes too. Teens have weird sleep cycles and hormones and then when moms of teens have their own hormonal issues, whew, I know how ugly it can get, BELIEVE ME. Brush off the people commenting who haven't actually experienced any of this yet, LOL.

This. It's well documented that teens' sleep rhythms are different from everyone else's. You may need to find a way to cut things in the morning so she can sleep in later.

[Catwoman]

Fairfarmhand..........I think your dd needs to go live at Cat's house. Sounds like their schedules would mesh better :-)

Send her over!!! :D

[Joker]

Wow. Some of you folks are very strict with your teenagers.

 

I'm thinking of letting my ds14 read this thread to show him how good he's got it. ;)

 

:iagree: I think I may hang on to it as well for future use. :tongue_smilie:

 

There is no way I could make my teen retire to her room at 8 or 9pm. She is at the table right now getting help from dh with her Geometry (it's 8:40pm here) and then she has to take a shower. She usually puts herself to bed around 10:30pm and falls asleep around 11pm. She wakes between 7:30-8am and her high school starts at 9:15am. There are times she stays up too late reading or texting with friends but she knows she is awful the next day so she is usually good about going to sleep.

[Cindy in FL.]

No one here ever goes to bed before 11:00. The kids and I usually have the tv on until 11 and then everyone reads or whatever. We go to sleep between 11:30 & 1:30.

 

If people are grouchy, they can spend time in their room instead of inflicting themselves on the rest of the family.

[edelweiss]

Wow. Some of you folks are very strict with your teenagers.

 

I'm thinking of letting my ds14 read this thread to show him how good he's got it. ;)

 

I don't know any teens who have to be in their rooms by 8pm, and taking away a 16yo's lightbulb is so far from what I would ever consider doing that I don't even know what to say about it.

 

 

I am actually reading this thread to my just-turned-14 teen.  I think she is now appreciating how good she has it!

[sassenach]

Wow. I can't imagine requiring my 14yo ds to be in his room by 9pm. We often go out for coffee and dessert long after 9:00.

 

But we're all night owls here, so that is probably why the bedtimes all seem so early to me. :)

Don't you have an only?  Life with 4 kids is just so much different than with 1.  There's literally always somebody talking to me, unless I lock myself in the bathroom.  Always.   

 

DH and I are both introverts.  Bed times are for many reasons, healthy habits being #1, but a close second is parental self preservation.  I need down time.  Period.  

 

My 17yo has to be in her room by 10:00 during the school year.  For a time period, we had her turn her phone in to us at night because she was having a hard time self regulating.  She doesn't have a lights out time, but if we happen by her bedroom after midnight and her light is still on, we're probably going to tell her lights out.  

 

She has all the freedom she wants as long as she gets up on time for school and it doesn't effect the family's sleep.  

[JumpyTheFrog]

I can understand why some parents would resort to removing light bulbs at times. Although I don't have any teens, I do have an 8 year old who still can't tell when he's tired. He's been like this since birth and we can't rely on him to notice that it's time to sleep. He needs 11-12 hours to have any chance at not being extremely irritible, but if it were up to him, he'd only sleep about 8-9 hours. We have to keep the flashlights locked up so he doesn't stay up 2-3 hours past his bedtime reading. My youngest however, is more normal and doesn't resist sleep the same way.

 

I am convinced that a lot of teen moodiness is from sleep deprivation.

[bettyandbob]

What time do her morning activities start.

 

Part of this is her personality (I think you've discussed other things with this child before)

 

Part of this is it's just a fight to make a teen's body sleep on the schedule you want to sleep on. Teens really aren't to benefit from a 10 pm to 6 am sleep schedule--their bodies don't work like that. You can force it on them. My dd has to leave the house at 6:30 am to walk to high school. She really cannot fall asleep before midnight. So, she is short on sleep by the end of the week. I let her sleep in one day on the weekend to "catch up". The school system has come up with a wacky schedule this year where there's a random day off once a month. I think the schedule is ridiculous and the school year will be long because of it. But I think that bonus day off every month may actually help dd (more sleeping in, less burn out).

 

My dd gets grumpy. We just avoid talking to her in the morning. If something is off (can't find something, can't print homework) boy do we hear about it.

 

My oldest was beyond grumpy, but he had a slew of other issues which were compounded by the sleep problems.

 

If I could change my dd's schedule I'd have her leaving the house for school around 9. I'd expect her to keep a bedtime around midnight still. She'd probably stay in her room from 9 pm on (homework, reading, texting friends, watching stuff on her computer), so her choice of actual sleep time would not affect me in the evenings.

[Ottakee]

For us with the 8pm in their room time my kids don't complain.  For a while dh was up at 4:30am so we started the day EARLY.  They don't have to sleep, they just have to be up there.  They have their music, ipads, books, etc.  The 8pm is for school nights, mostly in the winter.  For summer it was a lot more lax and often I put MYSELF to bed while they were still up.

 

Maybe fairfarmhand you could set up your bedroom so that you and dh could retreat to there and spend your time alone even while dd is up----providing she is not causing trouble with siblings, etc.

[Catwoman]

Don't you have an only? Life with 4 kids is just so much different than with 1. There's literally always somebody talking to me, unless I lock myself in the bathroom. Always.

 

DH and I are both introverts. Bed times are for many reasons, healthy habits being #1, but a close second is parental self preservation. I need down time. Period.

 

My 17yo has to be in her room by 10:00 during the school year. For a time period, we had her turn her phone in to us at night because she was having a hard time self regulating. She doesn't have a lights out time, but if we happen by her bedroom after midnight and her light is still on, we're probably going to tell her lights out.

 

She has all the freedom she wants as long as she gets up on time for school and it doesn't effect the family's sleep.

Yes, but my brother and SIL had 4 kids, and they didn't have early bedtimes, either. :)

 

I'm sure you're right that it's a personality thing. I think we all eventually figure out what works for our own families, no matter what anyone else is doing.

[JumpyTheFrog]

About a month ago DH and I were sick of the boys staying up in the dark in their room playing and/or pestering each other. I implemented a rule that anyone making noise after bedtime has to get up and do a chore because they are "showing they aren't tired enough to sleep yet." A few times someone had to do two chores before the decided sleep or being quiet was a better choice, but for the most part, they finally quiet down right away. Most strategies we've tried with our oldest haven't worked much or at all, but this rule seems to work well.

 

I don't know if I'd try it with a teen, but I'm mentioning it for anyone who has to work super hard to help their sleep-resistant younger kid be willing to sleep.

[Catwoman]

I can understand why some parents would resort to removing light bulbs at times. Although I don't have any teens, I do have an 8 year old who still can't tell when he's tired. He's been like this since birth and we can't rely on him to notice that it's time to sleep. He needs 11-12 hours to have any chance at not being extremely irritible, but if it were up to him, he'd only sleep about 8-9 hours. We have to keep the flashlights locked up so he doesn't stay up 2-3 hours past his bedtime reading. My youngest however, is more normal and doesn't resist sleep the same way.

 

I am convinced that a lot of teen moodiness is from sleep deprivation.

I think there is a huge difference between setting a strict bedtime for an 8yo and doing the same thing for a teenager.

 

I didn't set a strict bedtime for ds when he was 8, either, but I wouldn't even dream of it now that he is 14. I would rather pick much bigger battles than bedtime -- and I also think teens need some level of independence and the ability to make some of their own life decisions, and bedtime seems to be pretty minor, all things considered. :)

[TammyS]

I think it's very disrespectful to remove a lightbulb from a teens room.

 

We don't have bed time here and never really have. My kids who go to school seem to manage their own.

 

That's ok.  I think it's disrespectful to stay up later than you should and be a grump to everyone else.  So, since I have no respect for that choice, I have no problem dis-respecting that choice by making it not possible.

[fairfarmhand]

Another one whose teens don't have a bedtime.  IMO 9:00 seems pretty early for a 16 year old to head to her room.  Can she stay up and just not bother you?

 

If my teens don't get up themselves, and I have to wake them up, or they don't get up easily, then I start talking to them about getting to sleep earlier.  Otherwise, they regulate themselves.

 

.

No. We've tried. She ends up keeping her siblings awake and bothering my dh and I. Besides. She REALLY needs to go to bed.

 

This. It's well documented that teens' sleep rhythms are different from everyone else's. You may need to find a way to cut things in the morning so she can sleep in later.

 

She wants to have these activities. She wants to work because she wants to pay for driving expenses. Work is in the morning. She has to start school around 8:30 to be done in time for her to attend afternoon activities with her friends. She knows that school can't be put off till evening because she doesn't perform well in the evening.

 

My point is that she wants to do this stuff, but she just underestimates how much rest she can operate on.

I can understand why some parents would resort to removing light bulbs at times. Although I don't have any teens, I do have an 8 year old who still can't tell when he's tired. He's been like this since birth and we can't rely on him to notice that it's time to sleep.

 

I am convinced that a lot of teen moodiness is from sleep deprivation.

This is my dd. She is so incredibly un-self-aware that she really doesn't go. "I am tired. I need to go to bed. "Remember, it's everyone else's problem. Not hers. She also is really bad about realizing that she is hormonal, hungry, or stressed. In some ways, in the way that she handles life, she is more like a preteen than a 16 yo.

 

Just a little side note. Just tonight I said. "Hey, after supper go take off your makeup and get all ready for bed" She goes "What?" I asked her "Are you a bit tired?" She thought about it and said, "Yes." So I said, "Have you ever gotten so tired that you just can't get off the couch to get to bed?" She thought a minute and went "Yes." I then asked" At this point in the evening, is your energy level going to go up or down?" She answered "down" so I said, "Let's get you ready for bed now so that getting to bed won't be quite so overwhelming." and she complied.

 

The thing about just letting her set her own bedtime is that she takes her fatigue out on the rest of the world.

[TammyS]

  But keep this in mind,  you are trying to teach a teen how to become a functioning adult, not regulate every behavior.  My teens feel like they are in charge, and it works for us.

 

I don't buy that.  Lots of adults "function" on far too little sleep.  I'm not trying to teach him to "function".  He KNOWS that he needs a certain amount of sleep to be healthy and bearable, etc.  But just like many adults, he would often self-select not to do so (there's lots of versions of this: too much debt, too little sleep, too much non-nutritious food, etc. - just because people know better doesn't mean they necessarily choose better).  I can teach him that when you live with others there are consequences for behaviors.  Making a choice to not get the necessary sleep and be unbearable has the consequence that you will not be provided with the means of doing that in the future.  If he wants to be sleep deprived and unbearable, he'll have to wait until he's paying his own way in the world and inflicting that nonsense on other people.

[TammyS]

For us with the 8pm in their room time my kids don't complain. 

 

That's my experience, too.  We started with 7pm very young, moved to 8pm around 7 (if I remember right) and just never deviated.  We've never had complaints about bedtime.  It just is.

[Catwoman]

That's ok. I think it's disrespectful to stay up later than you should and be a grump to everyone else. So, since I have no respect for that choice, I have no problem dis-respecting that choice by making it not possible.

Don't you ever get grumpy? When you do, does someone remove the lightbulb from your bedroom?

 

I don't require that my ds never be in a bad mood, if he happens to be tired. I don't consider it to be disrespectful; I think it's a normal thing to sometimes not get enough sleep and be kind of a bear the next morning. I would certainly not punish anyone for it.

 

I'm not Little Mary Sunshine 24/7, so I don't require it of anyone else, either.

[TammyS]

I think there is a huge difference between setting a strict bedtime for an 8yo and doing the same thing for a teenager.

 

I didn't set a strict bedtime for ds when he was 8, either, but I wouldn't even dream of it now that he is 14. I would rather pick much bigger battles than bedtime -- and I also think teens need some level of independence and the ability to make some of their own life decisions, and bedtime seems to be pretty minor, all things considered. :)

 

I  guess the difference would be in how big one perceives the battle to be.

 

We've never had battles about bedtime, but I would if I had to, because I think tiredness is the root of a lot of problems.  Grumpiness, irritability, laziness, slacking on school/chores, etc., IME, have a root in tiredness a great deal of the time.  So I perceive it to be a "battle" worth my time.

 

[Catwoman]

That's my experience, too. We started with 7pm very young, moved to 8pm around 7 (if I remember right) and just never deviated. We've never had complaints about bedtime. It just is.

If you're removing the lightbulb from your teenager's room, I would venture to guess that your kids know better than to complain about their bedtime.

 

I could be completely misinterpreting your posts in this thread, but it sounds like you are very strict.

[TammyS]

Don't you ever get grumpy? When you do, does someone remove the lightbulb from your bedroom?

 

I don't require that my ds never be in a bad mood, if he happens to be tired. I don't consider it to be disrespectful; I think it's a normal thing to sometimes not get enough sleep and be kind of a bear the next morning. I would certainly not punish anyone for it.

 

I'm not Little Mary Sunshine 24/7, so I don't require it of anyone else, either.

 

I only get grumpy from lack of sleep if, for some reason, I CAN'T sleep.  Not because I WON'T sleep.  I consider it my responsibility to get enough sleep so as not to inflict others with a poor mood.  I do not consider moodiness or grumpiness to be normal and unavoidable.  We all have a responsibility to manage our needs to avoid mood problems as much as possible.

 

So, yes, refusing to sleep knowing that you are going to be grumpy the next day and that it will affect others, but choosing to do it anyway, is an offense worth punishing.  But I don't consider taking a lightbulb punishment, it's a consequence.  "You chose not to manage your sleep yourself, so the consequence is that I am now managing it for you."  The moodiness and grumpiness, to the extent that he acts out, will get punished separately.

[fairfarmhand]

Don't you ever get grumpy? When you do, does someone remove the lightbulb from your bedroom?

 

I don't require that my ds never be in a bad mood, if he happens to be tired. I don't consider it to be disrespectful; I think it's a normal thing to sometimes not get enough sleep and be kind of a bear the next morning. I would certainly not punish anyone for it.

 

I'm not Little Mary Sunshine 24/7, so I don't require it of anyone else, either.

 

An occasional tired grumpy day is a whole nother world from day after day of it.

 

And it feels very unfair for one person to inflict that on 5 other folks.

 

(I'm not a bulb snatcher, but I still think my dd needs help regulating this right now)

 

Also, if she doesn;t get enough sleep we have way too many battles about ridiculous things.

[Starr]

It's one thing to be occasionally moody and another to be chronically tired and moody and take it out on others. I would stop the morning job or the afternoon friends or both. There is no reason for her to hold the family hostage. It seems she's not able to yet manage that much activity or it's simply too much for her.  :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

I only get grumpy from lack of sleep if, for some reason, I CAN'T sleep. Not because I WON'T sleep. I consider it my responsibility to get enough sleep so as not to inflict others with a poor mood. I do not consider moodiness or grumpiness to be normal and unavoidable. We all have a responsibility to manage our needs to avoid mood problems as much as possible.

 

So, yes, refusing to sleep knowing that you are going to be grumpy the next day and that it will affect others, but choosing to do it anyway, is an offense worth punishing. But I don't consider taking a lightbulb punishment, it's a consequence. "You chose not to manage your sleep yourself, so the consequence is that I am now managing it for you." The moodiness and grumpiness, to the extent that he acts out, will get punished separately.

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I wouldn't want to micromanage my teenager like that, and I'm not into punishments either, so I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on this. :)

[TammyS]

If you're removing the lightbulb from your teenager's room, I would venture to guess that your kids know better than to complain about their bedtime.

 

I could be completely misinterpreting your posts in this thread, but it sounds like you are very strict.

 

I don't like the word "strict" because it doesn't seem to have any universal definition.  But if you are asking are the rules really and truly the rules in my house, then yes.  I don't subject myself or my kids to wishy-washy, uncertain, vaccillating applications of the rules.  If I bother to put a rule in place, then I enforce it fully.  If I'm not prepared to do that, for whatever reason, then I don't bother making a rule about something.  If by strict you mean that I believe that the parents are the authority in the home and that kids are subject to that authority, then yes, we are "strict".

 

My kids complain about some things, but not bedtime.  We just have established it as a fact of life.  It would be like complaining about the weather.  I mean, I guess you can, but it won't change anything.

[Catwoman]

An occasional tired grumpy day is a whole nother world from day after day of it.

 

And it feels very unfair for one person to inflict that on 5 other folks.

 

(I'm not a bulb snatcher, but I still think my dd needs help regulating this right now)

 

Also, if she doesn;t get enough sleep we have way too many battles about ridiculous things.

I think you handled it very well, though -- you gave her options and helped lead her to make the best decision. That's far different from setting a super-strict rule, because your dd felt like she had some control over the situation.