Scrub Jay Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/reports-active-shooter-troutdale-oregon-high-school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadieMarie Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 My same thought. Such a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 No, of course not. Are these VERY RARE events covered too much by the 24-hour news media?? Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 This is at least the third mass shooting in like three weeks. If that's rare then I am gobsmacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfries Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 This is at least the third mass shooting in like three weeks. If that's rare then I am gobsmacked. I agree. And there's plenty of tragic events that the media (or whomever) deems less important...we don't even hear about those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 This was from the Onion (a satire site) after the California shooting.... ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,†said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.†At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.†Editing to add, whatever other solutions might be argued that are more controversial, why in the name of God can we not at least stop glorifying these people by posting their names all over the media?? Can they not do that one thing, not release the names of the people that do this so that more and more sickos want that kind of infamy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 No, of course not. Are these VERY RARE events covered too much by the 24-hour news media?? Yes! This is at least the third mass shooting in like three weeks. If that's rare then I am gobsmacked. You're both correct, to an extent. We are unquestionably more attuned to what's going on around the world now than we were even in the recent past. Shootings are nothing new. It's surprising, really, the number of school shootings that took place 50 or 100 years ago. Billy didn't like teacher whipping his sister ~ so why not show up the next day with a revolver and let her know it? That sort of thing. Classic American wild west syndrome. But can we truly say, now, that events such as the one Kathleen mentioned are "rare"? Well, sure, if we consider it purely from a statistical perspective. How many schools are there in the US? Maybe 100,000? (Random guess here.) An event at one school is then negligible. But of course we have to give weight to the severity of the event. And when we consider that something like 35 shootings have taken place at schools thus far in 2014…well. Call me crazy, but when something happens at least once a week, I don't class it as a rarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Two people dead, so that's a "mass shooting" ? If the shooter committed suicide or was killed by police then he is not a "victim", so the death of one victim is defined as a "mass shooting" ? Statistically, schools are safe. Areas of Chicago are not. You don't hear about the gun-related violence in Chicago everyday on the national news, but if you are interested, here's a site tabulating the homicides in Chicago. Very disheartening. http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/05/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Mass murder and a mass shooting are two different things. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/what-is-a-mass-shooting There are multiple victims even if there aren't multiple deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Let's not get stuck on wording here. GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Kids with guns kill people. It's insane to me that school shootings are getting shrugged off here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I went to high school in the 80's and we had a guy who came into the school with a rifle intending to kill a teacher and anyone who got in his way. A teacher quickly and quietly came up behind the guy, grabbed the gun, and restrained the guy until the police arrived. The story never made the news and I don't think our parents were even notified! Now, the teacher would've been trained to lock the door and hide while the gunman got a chance to shoot his target and possibly others. I have a police officer friend who does ALICE training around the country and, while he wouldn't advise doing what my teacher did, he says that we've made a big mistake by teaching "lockdown" in schools because it makes everyone passive targets. We need to teach students to lock down and hide if it's the best option, but that running and fighting back are also perfectly acceptable options. I cringe when I see those large "no guns" signs on the school doors because it feels like advertising that we're sitting ducks in the building. The people who obey those signs are probably not the people we need to be too concerned about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 No, of course not. Are these VERY RARE events covered too much by the 24-hour news media?? Yes! And I was just thinking it must be the new normal because all 3 major news channels moved on pretty quickly compared to previous incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Let's not get stuck on wording here. GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Kids with guns kill people. It's insane to me that school shootings are getting shrugged off here. Sorry, but people kill people and they still would even if guns were illegal. Look at the bombings that there are in this country and throughout the world. I remember bomb threats when in school and I also remember pipe bombs occasionally being found. It is really ashamed that people kill people, but it has been going on since the beginning of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Sorry, but people kill people and they still would even if guns were illegal. Look at the bombings that there are in this country and throughout the world. I remember bomb threats when in school and I also remember pipe bombs occasionally being found. It is really ashamed that people kill people, but it has been going on since the beginning of time. Eh people have always been killing, why bother? So, nothing to see here folks. Move on? Um, ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Sorry, but people kill people and they still would even if guns were illegal. Look at the bombings that there are in this country and throughout the world. I remember bomb threats when in school and I also remember pipe bombs occasionally being found. It is really ashamed that people kill people, but it has been going on since the beginning of time. So, how many actual school bombings where someone died do you remember? If it's not weekly, it's not comparable. How about monthly? Did you hear about one a year? How about just once? I didn't. It's ridiculous to compare a prank to this. Dead teenagers today who were alive this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnIslandGirl Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/06/10/map-at-least-74-school-shootings-since-newtown/?hpid=z3 Seeing a visual like this map really makes more of an impact on me than just numerical statics. This problem is truly a national tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/06/10/map-at-least-74-school-shootings-since-newtown/?hpid=z3 Seeing a visual like this map really makes more of an impact on me than just numerical statics. This problem is truly a national tragedy. That map is so sad to look at. I wonder what the map would look like going in 5 year increments, all the way back for about 100 years? Just really curious how that would play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Call me crazy, but when something happens at least once a week, I don't class it as a rarity. :iagree: Let's not get stuck on wording here. GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Kids with guns kill people. It's insane to me that school shootings are getting shrugged off here. I really want to agree. I'm out of likes. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/06/10/map-at-least-74-school-shootings-since-newtown/?hpid=z3 Seeing a visual like this map really makes more of an impact on me than just numerical statics. This problem is truly a national tragedy. It seems that the number of school shootings increased almost exponentially since Newton. Anyone else finds this odd? http://www.statisticbrain.com/school-shooting-statistics/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't know if it is shrugging off because people don't care. I think it's more a protective measure. I can't do anything to change this and so I try not to dwell on it. I mean what can "I" do? I don't think we should have so many guns. As soon as there is a school massacre you know how some people react? They go out and buy guns. My guess is because they are afraid there will be a crack down on gun buying. So what in heck do we do with that? KWIM? I feel bad for kids. I have to say when I went to school I generally felt safe. I'm not sure I'd feel safe now. Ha, I can't tell if you are sincere or are quoting the Onion article again! There are things you can do. Heap scorn on the lobby that encourages the paranoia that leads to those guns, is one thing. I have zero patience any more for the NRA arguments. "These weekly shootings at schools could happen with a knife too!" Zero patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ha, I can't tell if you are sincere or are quoting the Onion article again! There are things you can do. Heap scorn on the lobby that encourages the paranoia that leads to those guns, is one thing. I have zero patience any more for the NRA arguments. "These weekly shootings at schools could happen with a knife too!" Zero patience. And vote for gun controls and let politicians know you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ha, I can't tell if you are sincere or are quoting the Onion article again! There are things you can do. Heap scorn on the lobby that encourages the paranoia that leads to those guns, is one thing. I have zero patience any more for the NRA arguments. "These weekly shootings at schools could happen with a knife too!" Zero patience. Or we could all join the NRA and take over. NRA membership is open to everyone, isn't it? What if a bunch of pacifists joined the NRA, or just people in favor of stricter gun control. What if enough of them joined to change the face of the NRA? What if we changed the NRA's lobby to the other side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 No, of course not. Are these VERY RARE events covered too much by the 24-hour news media?? Yes! I'm sorry. I live in Oregon about a half hour from this town. The young man shot to death on Thursday on the Seattle Pacific campus graduated from high school with my oldest son and his friends just last year. It's been less than two years since two people were gunned down in a local mall. It doesn't feel VERY RARE when it's your community and someone your kids have known. Today's shooting at Reynold's High School is the 74th school shooting since the 20 young children were gunned down at Sandy Hook 18 months ago. I don't know what constitutes VERY RARE in your world, but again those numbers don't look like something that happens only as often as Haley's Comet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Just to comment on the 74th school shooting map. I don't really know how accurate that map is. The shooting that is marked down at the university I attended is not what I would consider a school shooting so the entire map has lost all integrity to me. The shooting I'm referring to happened a month or so ago I believe and happened in a university parking lot, by a non college student. The shooter shot bullets into the air because he got angry during an argument. He didn't attempt to shoot anyone or show any signs that he was going to. I wouldn't call that a school shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Just to comment on the 74th school shooting map. I don't really know how accurate that map is. The shooting that is marked down at the university I attended is not what I would consider a school shooting so the entire map has lost all integrity to me. The shooting I'm referring to happened a month or so ago I believe and happened in a university parking lot, by a non college student. The shooter shot bullets into the air because he got angry during an argument. He didn't attempt to shoot anyone or show any signs that he was going to. I wouldn't call that a school shooting. All can think is, if a man shoots his gun in anger during an argument at my child's school..... I would not be OK with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 All can think is, if a man shoots his gun in anger during an argument at my child's school..... I would not be OK with that. And it's yet another illustration of an irresponsible gun owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 We asked ourselves that question after the last school shooting. You know, the one a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Eh people have always been killing, why bother? So, nothing to see here folks. Move on? Um, ok. OK, I just got used to the new avatar photo (you are incredibly pretty, by the way, and I LOVE your hair!) but now a new username, too??? Are you trying to make my head explode??? :eek: (I have to admit I like the name, though! :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And it's yet another illustration of an irresponsible gun owner. I agree that the guy is irresponsible and an idiot. However, since there are an estimated 270-310 million guns in circulation in the US, I think most gun owners are responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I often think of a kid from my high school back in the 80's who was strange and troubled. He was the type of kid who would commit one of these shootings---fit the profile quite well. He never committed violence at school, although he did burn down a forest in our town. I don't know if it was because he just wouldn't have turned violent against people or because his parents didn't own guns. Or maybe it was because he didn't get the idea from all the media publicity that swirls around these horrible events. What a difficult time we live in. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 When I mentioned to my husband how upset I was by the school shooting a few weeks ago, we started to discuss them in general. I commented that it always seems to be in posh public schools in posh areas. He said that when he was in school, at a nearby school to the one he attended in Dallas there had been a kid that came into the school and killed a few people. It was a poor black school and the shooter and the victims were poor and black. Only the local media reported it. I lived 30 miles away, and I don't remember the incident at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I agree that the guy is irresponsible and an idiot. However, since there are an estimated 270-310 million guns in circulation in the US, I think most gun owners are responsible. And I'll even agree with that. But the irresponsible ones put us at risk. And I was countering the argument that that data point shouldn't count as a real school shooting. If we're counting what's a real shooting and what isn't, we're seriously messed up. <deleted> We need gun control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I truly wish there could be real dialogue on this issue. I am a liberal democrat and dh and I are definitely pacifists. Yet I have never once suggested that gun ownership be banned in the United States. I grew up on a horse farm and my dad had guns stored in a cellar. He didn't hunt and he didn't shoot for fun, but he did have to put down injured animals. For me, guns had a practical, not glamorous purpose. They were also there for personal protection as we lived far out enough that emergency services would take a while to respond. In our current circle of friends, I can think of only one person that wants a nation-wide ban on guns. So I am curious to know the real numbers across the country. If we took the media, the NRA, and the armament industry out of the conversation for a bit, would we find there is more common ground than we know? Gun controls? I might want a few, but to know what I want, I would need to ask some questions because I am not a gun enthusiast or owner so there are things I don't understand. Like, if I want to volunteer in a school or chaperone our regatta team, I have to undergo a background check. I also had to do that when I was licensed to sell real estate. Why is getting a background check to own a gun problematic? Because my experience with guns is from a practical aspect, I do not understand the need to own assault rifles. What would be the realistic situation where one would be necessary? I am looking for genuine answers, not "It's my God-given American right to own an AK-whatever because it makes me feel powerful, manly, sexy at the shooting range." If you trivialize the deaths of first graders and stalk and threaten to rape and kill opponents as Open Carry Texas is doing, then I cannot hear what you say. So talk to me, please. If you are more comfortable doing so in a pm, please do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 When I mentioned to my husband how upset I was by the school shooting a few weeks ago, we started to discuss them in general. I commented that it always seems to be in posh public schools in posh areas. He said that when he was in school, at a nearby school to the one he attended in Dallas there had been a kid that came into the school and killed a few people. It was a poor black school and the shooter and the victims were poor and black. Only the local media reported it. I lived 30 miles away, and I don't remember the incident at all. Right. As your husband implied, it happens in plenty of non-posh (and non-white) schools, but we tend not to hear about it. So any stats relayed here are likely on the low side. Once we factor in the "non-noteworthy" people and incidents, the numbers are higher. (Side note re today's incident, neither the town nor the school qualify as "posh", imo. No offense intended to anyone in the area. Just trying to place it in perspective.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Swimmermom: just so you know, 'practical' country uses of fire arms are still allowed in the UK. Farmers have shotguns and plain rifles. Sports hunters can also have similar guns, after a background check and a home visit by the police. Hand guns and multi-fire guns are banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosyne Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/17/are-mass-shootings-becoming-more-common Don't know anything about the site/reliability/etc, but this may be interesting to some of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I am going to refrain from posting any more on this topic, but I would suggest that we would be better served trying to figure out what causes people to have so little regard for life that they are willing to take one. I know it's much more difficult task than passing legislation, but it would probably be more effective. Keep in mind, that every time the words "gun control" are utter by a politician, this happens... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/06/gun-sales-newtown_n_4394185.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I agree that the guy is irresponsible and an idiot. However, since there are an estimated 270-310 million guns in circulation in the US, I think most gun owners are responsible. I think there too. Unfortunately, you are letting too many of the idiots do the talking for you. They make responsible, reasonable non gun owners close-minded fairly fast. I realize this is from Mother Jones, and I am trying to find more neutral sources to verify or refute this. But if I see something like this, my knee-jerk reactions is that unlimited gun rights given to someone like this would result in a country that was not worth living in. Spitting, Stalking, Rape Threats: How Gun Extremists Target Women Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I am going to refrain from posting any more on this topic, but I would suggest that we would be better served trying to figure out what causes people to have so little regard for life that they are willing to take one. I know it's much more difficult task than passing legislation, but it would probably be more effective. There are a number of reasons. You are NEVER going to find all the people who want to do harm to themselves or others. It's impossible. Passing legislation is NOT the only thing that should be done... but it definitely should be a part of what's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I am trying to find more neutral sources Ah, rats. We're supposed to find neutral sources? And here I thought Jon Stewart said it all so well. : ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKMEOGzrWA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Let's not get stuck on wording here. GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Kids with guns kill people. It's insane to me that school shootings are getting shrugged off here. Seems like a lot of these are associated with psychotropic drugs. Whether that's causative is anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ah, rats. We're supposed to find neutral sources? And here I thought Jon Stewart said it all so well. : ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKMEOGzrWA Well, in a former life I was a journalism major, so I try to find a variety of sources, not just those who say what I want to hear or who happen to be the sexiest man alive. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I try to find a variety of sources, not just those who say what I want to hear I get plenty of what I don't want to hear from the folks in my gun-totin', conservative Christian community, thankyouverymuch. ;-) Fortunately, this little island is an anomaly in the PNW, as you know. And hey, they're good people. I feel so protected by the "I Love Guns & Coffee" crowd it darn near makes me verklempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Are you implying Jon Stewart is the sexiest man alive? Well, in a former life I was a journalism major, so I try to find a variety of sources, not just those who say what I want to hear or who happen to be the sexiest man alive. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Eh people have always been killing, why bother? So, nothing to see here folks. Move on? Um, ok. Didn't we just see in another thread that violent crime is down by a LOT? So, it seems we focus on crimes like these because the news media does, and because they are (relatively) unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Yes, it's the new normal. The challenge is to make sure our kids know this ISN'T normal, it doesn't happen everywhere, that it affects a very small number of people. That's hard to wrap your brain around when it seems like it is in the news all the time. Unfortunately, our family has been too close too many times, lived very close to Columbine at the time. Right after another large mass shooting, we moved within 50 miles of it and still see daily reminders. A dear friend's daughter went to a school where another shooting occurred this past school year, and she'll be going to SPU in the fall. How can our children NOT think this is normal? For them, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Didn't we just see in another thread that violent crime is down by a LOT? So, it seems we focus on crimes like these because the news media does, and because they are (relatively) unusual. Not anymore they aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 All can think is, if a man shoots his gun in anger during an argument at my child's school..... I would not be OK with that. Well of course you wouldn't be, you would be upset about it if it were anywhere your child was but its not a school shooting that should be lumped in with ones in which a person/people bring guns to a school with the intent to harm multiple people. They are 2 different situations entirely and should be handled differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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