Political threads

[Colleen in NS]

In other words, she would prefer our topics stay homeschool/parenting related, but she doesn't mind the other topics as long as they remain civil and don't unnecessarily tax the moderators... and highly inflammatory topics that are particularly troublesome to monitor are simply nixed.

 

Am I the only one who sees this as very simple and straight forward?

 

No, you are not, and my impressions are the same.

 

What is the agenda? What was your original purpose, and is that purpose being achieved?

 

My impression years ago was that the main agenda was to provide support in the task of educating our kids. And that the hoped for by-product would be that business was generated for PHP. In my mind, it doesn't make good business sense to allow controversial topics that take up energy and that obscure homeschooling (possibly business-generating) threads.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that the question is different from "Should political conversations be banned from these boards?"

 

The question is "Should political conversations CONTINUE TO BE banned from these boards?" or perhaps, "Should we change our policy to allow previously banned political conversations onto these boards?"

 

For me, that difference is key.

 

To make a change in something that is already alive and kicking, so to speak, there should be a reason for it. I don't see a good case for making this change. It doesn't further SWB's business. It doesn't further homeschooling. It doesn't increase our feelings of cameraderie, I don't think (although that might be debatable.)

 

Although I do enjoy political conversations, I think that to allow them here will crowd out a lot of other, more pertinent topics. People will stay away to avoid politics. People will see others get jumped on, and fail to want to join in on homeschooling matters for fear of similar treatment.

 

I see the political stuff taking up the bandwidth of many posters, and as someone who mostly avoids those threads, I have perceived a marked dampening of quantity and quality of talk on other threads during the last few days as these threads have dominated our discourse. Furthermore, I think that it is hurtful to our community to have inflammatory thread titles staring us in the face when we sign on, and it probably puts off newbies who just want to talk about homeschooling. I also think that the long political threads probably cost our hosts a fair amount of money, and we already know that they cost them a fair amount of time and energy. This doesn't seem right.

 

For me this online community is valuable, and I want to see it be economically viable for our hosts as well.

 

If banning these discussions was a new rule, I would argue against it, but as it is merely reiterating an old one, I think we should leave it alone.

[SnowWhite]

The WTM board is the closest thing I have to adult conversation every day. To have it declared a politics-free zone would really stifle my experience here, even though I tend to lurk much more than I post about politics.

[Robin in Tx]

I think that the question is different from "Should political conversations be banned from these boards?"

 

The question is "Should political conversations CONTINUE TO BE banned from these boards?" or perhaps, "Should we change our policy to allow previously banned political conversations onto these boards?"

 

For me, that difference is key.

 

To make a change in something that is already alive and kicking, so to speak, there should be a reason for it. I don't see a good case for making this change. It doesn't further SWB's business. It doesn't further homeschooling. It doesn't increase our feelings of cameraderie, I don't think (although that might be debatable.)

 

Although I do enjoy political conversations, I think that to allow them here will crowd out a lot of other, more pertinent topics. People will stay away to avoid politics. People will see others get jumped on, and fail to want to join in on homeschooling matters for fear of similar treatment.

 

I see the political stuff taking up the bandwidth of many posters, and as someone who mostly avoids those threads, I have perceived a marked dampening of quantity and quality of talk on other threads during the last few days as these threads have dominated our discourse. Furthermore, I think that it is hurtful to our community to have inflammatory thread titles staring us in the face when we sign on, and it probably puts off newbies who just want to talk about homeschooling. I also think that the long political threads probably cost our hosts a fair amount of money, and we already know that they cost them a fair amount of time and energy. This doesn't seem right.

 

For me this online community is valuable, and I want to see it be economically viable for our hosts as well.

 

If banning these discussions was a new rule, I would argue against it, but as it is merely reiterating an old one, I think we should leave it alone.

 

Exactly. You said it much better than I did :).

[StephanieZ]

JMHO, but I voted to end the politics here, with the following alternate suggestion to perhaps allow them to continue in a different way. . .

 

Could you perhaps split the general board into areas, such as:

 

+ General hs'ing advice & support (scheduling, juggling kids, etc.)

 

+ General OT life advice & support

 

+ HS'ing and Faith

 

+ HS'ing in politics, etc

 

That would make it a lot easier to choose to avoid the non-hs'ing topics. Although I find them interesting and even get lured in sometimes, I know I would be better off skipping those conversations as I really don't want to spend the time doing that.

 

I also know at least one friend who stopped visiting these boards due to her impression that they had become too OT and particularly too religious to serve her needs. . . So, perhaps splitting the boards would help people focus on the topics they are both interested in and/or can offer the most help to others with.

 

For that matter, I'd wonder if it would be helpful to break down the K-8 curricula board into subjects such as:

 

+ Multi-subjects (curricula in a box, overall approaches, etc.)

 

+ Modern languages

 

+ Ancient languages

 

+ Math

 

+ Science

 

+ English

 

+ History, Geography, Social Studies

 

+ Logic

 

+ Fine Arts (Visual Arts, Music, etc.)

 

+ Pre-K issues

 

+ Miscellaneous

 

+ etc, as you see fit

 

I know that would be a huge help to me in researching topics and staying focused on what I am most interested in and those areas I think I can serve other people.

 

These boards are so wonderful and have gotten so big that I think it may be time to break them up/narrow them somewhat to keep them at a rate of turnover where we can keep up with conversations we need without being washed out in coversations that are probably distracting if not even damaging to the supportive nature at the core of this community.

 

A professional network that my dh uses (VIN -- for veterinarians), breaks down the "vet-to-vet" boards into probably 100 subjects -- anesthesia to zoonosis. . . Each board has various experts that "moderate" it to offer their expert input and then vets can choose to visit/lurk/post/etc on whichever areas they are most interested in. It makes the vast bulletin board into a very useable and efficient board, b/c the small animal vet doesn't need to ever visit the cow board. . . when you have a dermatology question, you can go right to that board, post your query, and/or easily scan weeks/months worth of posts for similar queries. . . *and* you know you have the attention/input from experts in that area and/or also just regular vets who care enough about that sub-specialty to be researching and looking at cutting edge issues. . . anyway, it seems to me a really valuable idea to consider.

 

Also, on VIN, if one posts a main post on one board, say "Cardiology", they might go over to another board or two (say, "Radiology" and maybe the general "From the Trenches" board" and post a brief one sentence query such as "Please visit my post re: tricky diagnosis of enlarged heart that isn't responding to med x, y. Please reply on main thread. Thanks!" with a link directly to their main post. I could see that working well here if someone really wanted to touch several groups/boards for a cross-over topic but wanted to avoid duplicate posts (which is important in order to maintain logical discussions IMHO)

 

Thanks to SWB and her staff for caring so much about this comunity to constantly work to refine and improve it!!!!!!!!!!

 

BTW, remember that this is SWB, et al's site, and I think we should all remember to graciously accept any updates and changes made to it!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!

[Susan Wise Bauer]

What is the agenda?

 

To provide support for home educating parents.

 

What was your original purpose, and is that purpose being achieved?

 

1. To provide support for home educating parents while still retaining our sanity.

 

2. Yep. But we'll continue to negotiate that last bit.

 

SWB

[laughing lioness]

I voted to keep the politics though I rarely get involved in those threads. Frankly, I love the diversity on this board. I so rarely have the opportunity to interact with those whose views, esp related to religion or politics differ than mine that this is a refreshing place to be!

But, I am also invested in the great work of PHP continuing to thrive. Thanks SWB and friends for all that you do to raise the bar! Whatever you decide, I'm coming back!

[Valerie in Chicago]

Susan,

 

You have a business to run, which means utilizing your resources -- including your employees -- in the most efficient way possible. Do what ya gotta do.

 

People (aka: consumers) will stay or go for a variety of reasons. You can't make everyone happy. And some people are happiest when they are unhappy anyway.

[Colleen]

I understand what you're saying, Carol; just wanted to make one minor correction, though.

 

If banning these discussions was a new rule, I would argue against it, but as it is merely reiterating an old one, I think we should leave it alone.

 

The current rules don't prohibit political discussions. That was the case on the old board, but hasn't been so with the new format.

[Colleen]

Am I the only one who sees this as very simple and straight forward?

 

Of course not, Robin. I'm tracking the vibes here (to steal someone else's phrase;)) and sharing food for thought. Several people are concerned that an increase in "off topic" threads diminishes the general purpose of the board. While I prefer political posts not be banned, I think it's worth considering what the agenda ~ that being to provide support for home education ~ looks like, in terms of this community.

[Cheryl in NM]

 

Of course not, Robin. I'm tracking the vibes here (to steal someone else's phrase;)) and sharing food for thought. Several people are concerned that an increase in "off topic" threads diminishes the general purpose of the board. While I prefer political posts not be banned, I think it's worth considering what the agenda ~ that being to provide support for home education ~ looks like, in terms of this community.

 

I don't mind issues other than homeschooling being discussed here. In fact, I've benefited from many such discussions. I think the main issue is the amount of time the moderators have to spend on political threads because people are being inappropriate. I haven't read the threads in case, but I'm just basing my opinion on what's been stated here and the fact that SWB is considering banning politics because of those threads. I kind of look at it as board or not board. SWB offers this board as a homeschooling resource so when politics takes moderation time from H.S. then politics has to go, IMHO.

[BlueGator]

Susan,

 

You have a business to run, which means utilizing your resources -- including your employees -- in the most efficient way possible. Do what ya gotta do.

 

People (aka: consumers) will stay or go for a variety of reasons. You can't make everyone happy. And some people are happiest when they are unhappy anyway.

 

:iagree:

[LaMere Academy]

BTW, thanks for the books and the boards! I can't think of another resource that has helped me so much in parenting and homeschooling. :)

 

:iagree:

[Mom to Aly]

Although I have participated, I'd much rather see it banned. I am shocked at how people have reacted to what is propaganda, and how they will take it as fact and not research it on their own. I really think you should do your own research on your candidate, and make your own choice. I have only responded when I felt others were being influenced by what was already posted and was not correct.

[Sahamamama]

I would prefer that this remain a site dedicated mostly to the topic of homeschooling. There are thousands upon thousands of political websites out there where people can go to rant anywhere they want on the 'net. There's only this board for Well Trained Minders.

 

Jen

 

:iagree: Plus, FWIW, I think that this election will be particularly divisive, in ways that NO previous election ever has been (in the USA).

 

Also, there are many people on this board who don't even LIVE in the USA, and are NOT US citizens. Why put them through having to sift through our politics? How will that help them to better homeschool their children (unless they use the pol. threads "educationally" -- give me a break)!

 

No, I think we should keep THIS forum politics-free, as much as possible. Thanks, WTM, whatever you decide!

[Catherine]

impossible. Maybe you could ban threads about people running for public office? Everything we say and do has political significance. Personally I think people should agree to disagree about politics, and remain polite. I think links to propaganda videos and sites should be banned, period. Spreading that stuff only makes the jobs of PR folk easier-they call it "free press".

[tibbyl]

It is unrealistic to expect that the ad hominem attacking, emotional-appealing problematic posters will not eventually revert back to their problem-causing ways in the passion of the moment. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

[coffeefreak]

I agree with keeping the politics but separating them from the "General Board." Maybe the "General Board" could be Homeschool specific but not Curriculum questions, and there could be an, "Everything Else/Non Homeschooling Questions Board." I like the suggestions to have a minimum post requirement to enter, as well as a way to give a "time out" to those who abuse the privilege of using the forums for civil discussion.

 

As always, thanks for maintaining the boards! They help me a TON!

[newlifemom]

I have nothing of value to add to this discussion only want to leave a thought with you. It is on these boards that I have for the first time publically disagreed with people who are way above me intellectually and it is been these boards that have given me the courage to be bold, and (hopefully) not rude or disagreeable.:001_smile: I am so grateful for these boards and appreciate the obviously hard work that your team does, Susan. I hope that we can continue in the same manner and am sorry for the trouble your team has had to go through.

[8filltheheart]

impossible. Maybe you could ban threads about people running for public office? Everything we say and do has political significance. Personally I think people should agree to disagree about politics, and remain polite. I think links to propaganda videos and sites should be banned, period. Spreading that stuff only makes the jobs of PR folk easier-they call it "free press".

 

The problem with this POV is that people believe that blogs and sites posting talking points aren't slanted and aren't propaganda themselves. They believe that those POVs are the only legitimate points.

 

While I am not for banning topics for the norm, I think until the elections are over it is a good idea for several reasons.

 

1- people do and have gotten extremely personal in their posts (and I don't mean in a sharing of life experiences.)

 

2- those that become the most vocal and personal in their posts dominate the POV b/c others that have different opinions that are equally deserving of being heard don't post b/c of the feared reaction. That silence can give the false impression of aquiescence.

 

The well-trained mind is about being well-educated, well-informed, and well-rounded. Polite articulate discourse in a thoughtful, engaging manner is what one considers. However, ummm......when it turns into flinging peanut butter loaded blogs, especially when devoid of jelly, well, it simply isn't WTMish. ;)

[BlueGator]

2- those that become the most vocal and personal in their posts dominate the POV b/c others that have different opinions that are equally deserving of being heard don't post b/c of the feared reaction. That silence can give the false impression of aquiescence.

 

I thought Monday was really creepy. It wasn't just caffeine and emotion running high and raw, it seemed to be a lot more than that. It sucked the energy out of me and I was only on it for an hour or two.

 

There seemed to be a creepy stampeding herd thing going on and that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes. Maybe it was the energy off of the Saddleback thing on Sunday. I didn't watch it so the whole thing caught me off guard.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

[Jennifer3141]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

 

I cannot imagine throwing away the resouce that your material is over internet message boards. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!!

 

Jen

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

What is really scary is that some of these people are actually homeschooling children- meaning their children might or might not have other teachers and adults in their lives to pick up social cues from.

 

I'm voting for Obama. If someone wants to give me a neg rep just because of it, I really have better things to do with my day than worry about how many green pixels appear beside my name on a message board. :chillpill:

[DB in NJ]

Wasn't this thread just locked? Did I lose some gray matter in my scanner????

 

Guess I should move my other post up here....

[Jennifer3141]

What is really scary is that some of these people are actually homeschooling children- meaning their children might or might not have other teachers and adults in their lives to pick up social cues from.

 

I'm voting for Obama. If someone wants to give me a neg rep just because of it, I really have better things to do with my day than worry about how many green pixels appear beside my name on a message board. :chillpill:

 

I kind of think the negative rep is a badge of courage around here. :D

 

Jen

[Alenee]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

 

This is the exception though right? Not the rule? I cannot imagine most people giving up a valuable resource just because they were told to stop leaving negative rep. It truly speaks of boundary issues.....

[Jenny in Atl]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

 

How do you reason with this kind of mindset? Wow, just wow is all I can muster. After seven hours of school today, this makes my head hurt. :confused:

[sdWTMer]

That's just nutso! I just can't imagine being that way!

[beansprouts]

Wasn't this thread just locked? Did I lose some gray matter in my scanner????

 

Guess I should move my other post up here....

 

It also used to be a "sticky" It looks like she has released the thread to either live on or die a natural death.

[sleepy]

It boggles the mind.

[Jackie in AR]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

 

Wow.

 

Ya' know, how exactly would you explain your dislike of PHP products in this situation?

 

"Well, when PHP asked me to stop giving negative rep to people on their chat boards because I didn't like the way the other people were going to vote, I refused! So I'm not going to buy any more of their stuff, and you shouldn't either!"

 

I think most people who are considering buying your products, Susan, will consider the source.

 

I remain amazed that you continue to allow any of us to use these boards.

[Gretchen in NJ]

I cannot imagine throwing away the resouce that your material is over internet message boards. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!!

 

Jen

 

How about throwing the baby out with the bathwater?:001_huh:

[Colleen]

Because if the show was still on, this would definitely be Seinfeld-worthy. It's got that same kind of creepy/annoying/pathetic to the point of being hilarious ring to it. A royal pain the rear for you, Susan, but good story material, kwim?:tongue_smilie:

[Jenny in Atl]

Bad link... pay no attention to the odd lady behind the curtain. :tongue_smilie:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

 

This is good to know. Because I do take this pretty seriously, actually. As soon as money frees up in September, I'll be ordering the equivalent amount to make up for her taking all her marbles and going home.

 

And believe me when I say I am zealous in recommending PHP products when opportunities arise.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

It also used to be a "sticky" It looks like she has released the thread to either live on or die a natural death.

 

Yep.

 

I was away and didn't want to inflict the thread I started on the moderators since I couldn't keep an eye on it. :001_smile:

 

SWB

[klmama]

I voted to keep the politics though I rarely get involved in those threads. Frankly, I love the diversity on this board.

 

 

:iagree: It's nice to read various perspectives on things here! When the conversation becomes less than civil, I just shake my head and stop reading.

 

FWIW, Susan, even though I voted to keep the politics here, I won't feel the least bit offended if you decide to can the discussions on that or anything else. It's your board, and we are guests. You decide what works best for you and your staff.

[Doran]

OK, I can't resist posting this.

 

One of our moderators asked a board member to QUIT giving negative reps to people just because of the candidate they chose to vote for. The moderator asked nicely, too.

 

So today we get this fax from her, in answer to our informing her that her copy of WWE was ready to ship:

 

To whom this may concern,

 

Thank you but no thank you. Due to extenuating circumstances and enlightenment, I will no longer be purchasing PHP products or recommending them either.

 

 

I wasn't kidding. People take this board stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry. But, we're not supposed to talk about negative rep here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol: Okay, that was a pretty pitiful attempt at levity. On which page of the catalog did you say you've listed the rhino skin? I'm assuming you've got a warehouse full of it somewhere, possibly stacked neatly next to the wigs which are marked "In The Event Of Hair Loss, Open Here".

 

Good grief. I guess it's best to try to summon some compassion for folks like that, huh? Better than the alternative?

 

Thanks, as always, for what you do. And, apparently, for what you endure.

[Tarheel Heather]

Doran, you're a hoot!:lol:

[Mekanamom]

And believe me when I say I am zealous in recommending PHP products when opportunities arise.

 

Wow- I'm just now taking the time to read through this thread... wow. I don't have much else to add other than "me too"... The PHP materials have always played a part in my homeschool (from the time I first read "The Well Trained Mind"), just as the board here plays an important part in my overall sense of homeschool community. I also recommend both the products and the board to others.

 

Er- I have not participated in the political threads but voted to keep them... I read many more threads than I post in. And I always learn *something* of value. :)

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I'm sorry. But, we're not supposed to talk about negative rep here.

 

:lol:

 

You got me.

 

SWB

[Colleen]

I'm sorry. But, we're not supposed to talk about negative rep here.

 

Aww, give her a break. She made sure not to start a new thread, so her post didn't have to be merged.

 

:D

 

Seriously, I can't get over this. It is so bizarre to me as to almost be unreal. People are so...people-ish.:tongue_smilie:

[beansprouts]

Doran you are too funny!

 

If anyone needs a reality check, they should take a look at the venom that spews from an unmoderated political board :ack2:

[Gretchen in NJ]

I'm sorry. But, we're not supposed to talk about negative rep here.

 

:lol:Doran! Thank you for the chuckle.:D

[HollyinNNV]

After reading this entire thread I wanted to share. I voted for keeping the political threads a couple of days ago. However, after reading the 25th page of this thread:D, I would prefer to vote, "Whatever works for PHP is fine with me."

 

Six years ago I started a co-op. It was called a writing club then. I invited anyone interested from our homeschool organization which is open to anyone in the area that homeschools. At one of the first couple of meetings, a third grade child (who had been dropped off by mom) just left my house-walking away to who knows where. We brought him back to my house and called his mom. What gives? His mom came up to my door and promptly had a fit. Why did we stop him? What gives us the right. etc. etc. Then she threatens to sue my family.:eek:

 

The incident made me really think about how to protect myself and my family-and yet still do what I wanted to do. When I began my writing co-op in earnest the following year, I had some policies in place that angered a lot of folks in my community. I will carry that black mark with me as long as I homeschool in this area. In the end, my friends have understood my choices and have been very supportive. But, I had to look at my ultimate goals, and make tough choices.

 

Susan, I think that your supporters will also understand whatever choices you decide to make. I can live with or without the political threads. I generally lurk and read-but I do not post on them.

 

Holly

[Colleen in NS]

"Whatever works for PHP is fine with me."

 

Susan, I think that your supporters will also understand whatever choices you decide to make. I can live with or without the political threads.

 

:iagree:

 

I posted on this thread to try and point something out, but ultimately, I'll just keep jumping into whatever board to get my homeschooling support. :D

 

And I'll definitely keep recommending and buying PHP and SWB's products.

 

I definitely have learned a lot about thinking things through clearly since starting to use these boards a few years ago. It's a great resource.

 

Now, I wonder if I'll be the thread-killer or if it will keep living......:lol:

[Sandy in Indy]

I think it's your board and you can make the rules. If political threads are causing you more than the usual headaches, put them in the "no" category. We like the board and prefer that you not run screaming into the night with frustration, tempted to throw up your hands and close the whole thing down.

 

Really, you and your staff have better things to do with your time.

[LisaNY]

I think the admin can resolve all future issues like this by sending them to a site where they can get

The Assurance and Comfort They So Desperately Need

 

This way, you can provide excellent products as well as emotional support. :D

[genie]

I think the admin can resolve all future issues like this by sending them to a site where they can get

The Assurance and Comfort They So Desperately Need

 

This way, you can provide excellent products as well as emotional support. :D

 

LOL!!! Too funny! :lol: