What if Cornell is within reach financially and maybe, just maybe in stats too?

[FaithManor]

My middle boy, the biology/Great Lakes ecology, conservation boy with the heavy science program has found out that with his stats - he has a 32 on the ACT as a sophomore so we think that may go up a point or two - and really strong extracurriculars could afford the school. We didn't think that was possible. The price tag is so off putting; they don't give merit aid. However, out of curiosity I filled out their extensive net-price calculator and their version of need is most certainly NOT FASFA because the amount we would need to contribute is only $11,000.00. It looks like they really do meet the "need" in that my research did not indicate that they expected expensive private loans for the students. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll know more IF he applies and IF he were accepted.

 

I'm reeling though. Now that he knows it's an option, and we weren't planning on applying somewhere so competitive, we have some upping of the ante to do. He'll only have two AP's and a college class (a semester of college chemistry from U of MI). He will have four years in TARC and has already had a tenth and fourteenth place finish with them. But the one thing that NASA offered to TARC teams that would have been a "write your ticket to college" program (most of the kids that who have completed the program are getting full rides if they have good grades and remotely decent ACT/SAT scores) was defunded this year. This was the SLI challenge - Student Launch Initiative - which is college level aeronautics engineering project mentored by local engineers who belong to the National Association of Rocketry - with additional mentoring from NASA engineers from Huntsville using SKYPE for the meetings. The Millington team did it last year and our team couldn't because we were unable to come up with the additional funding. (NASA offers about $3500.00 - 5000.00 and the average cost of the project is $8000.00), but this year we have it. Sigh...now the program is gone.

 

AP's are ridiculously difficult to get around here; I'm worried because the kids he'll be competing with for admission will probably have 5-8 a piece and possibly dual enrollment which we also do not have because we do not have a CC around here. We have "business" school which essentially does professional licensing/certificate type programs, but not a true CC. As it is, to get his college chemistry, I'll be driving him 1.5 hrs (one way) to class, and you don't want to know the insanity I'm going through just to get him an AP since our local school districts have cut almost ALL AP's due to funding so they are not proctoring the exams. It's crazy.

 

He will be team captain next year for the TARC team, and he sits on the 4-H youth council. I could probably get him into the Youth Capitol Experience which would be an involvement in politics. He'll have a Congressional Award from Senator Debby Stabenow for the 10th place finish, and one from Senator Carl Levin for the 14th place finish, and a Resolution of Honor from our county commissioners. I don't expect that last one to count for much because it's a tiny, rural county in an economically depressed area of Michigan with leadership that isn't known on a state or national level. He'll have a recommendation from Dr. Werner at MTU for his research work, and possibly one from the Ecology professor if he gets one of the 8 spots in their Freshwater Ecology Camp this summer. Who knows? Maybe we'll get supremely lucky and have a top five finish at TARC this year or next before it's time to apply. I don't know if something like that would be impressive to this school or not. It carries a lot of weight at the tier one uni's here, and a HUGE amount of weight a U of Alabama. But Cornell? My guess is every single kid whose ever been accepted there has had incredible accomplishments and probably not in rocketry either.

 

If I could find work in the evenings so it didn't interfere with homeschooling, maybe I could afford to send him on a National Geographic Student Expedition or pay for some longer, volunteer in a foreign country kind of trip. Again, not exactly certain if that would count significantly more than his community service through 4-H as a tutor, but it would look more exotic, more eye catching. I don't know. I was a music major. My entrance into upper tier one schools was entirely different than this, and dd never tried anywhere this selective, and I don't know anyone who has attended a school with an acceptance rate so low other than again, the difficult music schools such as Eastman, Curtis, Cincinnati, Oberlin, New England Conservatory, Berkley, Julliard....those experiences really don't apply here.

 

He'll have a trip to Iceland and to Rome, but only as a tourist.

 

Has anyone had a student get into Cornell recently? How many AP's? How many college credits through dual enrollment? How many college credits that weren't DE? What were the extra-curriculars like?

 

The boy hates fine arts. He's going to have two credits, art appreciation and photography and that's it. He does not play a musical instrument. He has a beautiful singing voice and does not want to use it. He will have NO sports other than his recreational cross country skiing.

 

Additionally, they want three years of one foreign language. I've been soft on that because of his love of Icelandic and a desire to pursue it as far as he can. But we can not possibly cobble together a third credit. There just aren't resources stateside or at least that I can find, that will allow for this from here and be honest about the actual level of work completed. We could drop his "second year" now, start Danish which we do have resources for, and push through the summer to get the first credit done, and then follow that with Danish his junior and senior year. I'm worried that both Icelandic and Danish will look weird to Cornell. The uni's we've been looking at really don't care what the language is, and U of MI even accepted dd with lots of scholarship on two years of Latin and two years of Spanish. I have a feeling Cornell will not be so forgiving...it will be a ding on the application.

 

I am open to your experiences, your ideas, and your advice. I'm kind of excited for him that this could maybe, just maybe, be an option and all of his other schools are safeties with his stats. But, I'm so nervous about even applying. He knows that they are so selective that his chances are slim....kids from Grosse Pointe High school, West Bloomfield Hills, Cranbrook, Saginaw Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the Latin Academy in Grand Rapids have a MUCH better chance than he does as a homeschooled kid in the middle of Podunk Michigan with few educational options. However, I also don't want to squash him either.

 

I really didn't think we'd ever be in this position.

 

Oh, this is REALLY funny. From where we are located in Michigan, Ithaca is three hours closer than MTU in our own state! LOL - he'll have his passport so he could take the short cut through Ontario.

 

My kids are throwing me for a loop this week. Eldest boy, always an artistic, creative mind, entered some writing in a contest and had some very good feedback. He loves English and journalism, always has, and suddenly decided to switch his major to English with an emphasis in creative writing, and minors in Anthropology and music. Previously he was planning on majoring in comp sci, with double minors in music and geology. He's finishing his junior year and has a very heavy STEM oriented transcript and extracurriculars at this point so I'm absolutely scrambling to change course and figure out how to fit in things he'll need to be competitive for scholarships in the Humanities, and choosing what to drop to make those other things happen. My head is reeling. But, honestly this does seem to be "him" more than the comp sci, and better to find out now than two years into a STEM program.

 

Creekland, P wouldn't be far from Rochester if he got into Cornell. But, I think your son will be graduating in Spring of 2016, and P won't be entering school until autumn of that year. So, I doubt we'd be able to meet each other that way. Funny though that there is slim chance that our guys could end up so close geographically.

 

Thoughts?

[FaithManor]

We do not have any community colleges in Mid Michigan that have foreign language except maybe a semester or two of Spanish, but I am not certain they offer even that. But, I will check into the unit's and see if anyone offers online foreign language. Thanks.

 

He would be majoring in Biology with an emphasis in ecology or environmental sciences so I think that falls under the School of Arts and Sciences, but I haven't had a chance to research that yet. 

 

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

[jennynd]

I was accepted to Cornell but can't afford it. Just want to say good luck and it certainly is a great school..

[JennW in SoCal]

One of the things that might play in your favor is that admissions committees are looking to create "diverse" classes -- they don't want an incoming freshman class made up entirely of  AP-laden, sports playing kids from affluent suburban schools. Sometimes "diverse" can mean homeschool kids from tiny rural, economically depressed counties, kids who are in 4-H.  It is all about how you "package" your ds.

 

Off the top of my head, here are some positive things to consider.

 

You could get very creative with Icelandic.  Perhaps via Skype with a native speaker?  Or translating some old sagas?  Or doing a critical review of the translation of some current Icelandic literature, such as the novels by Sjon.   (Off topic, but my youngest ds spent 2 weeks in Iceland doing geology research last summer.  He learned a bit of the language, but because he is tall, blue-eyed with a fair complexion, once he started wearing an Icelandic sweater people assumed he was a local and spoke to him in Icelandic!)

 

You have choices beyond APs and community college -- SAT II subject exams.  Surely you can find somewhere that can proctor those tests?  Some tech colleges prefer seeing those scores, as I recall from our admissions journey a few years ago.  

 

I think his TARC and 4-H positions are great.  It shows leadership and a long-term commitment.  You could probably find other volunteer activities for the summer or during the year, but I can't see the value in paying the National Geographic Society for some adventure.  That's the kind of things affluent families from the suburbs do.  It would be far cooler if he could come up with his own projects -- show some initiative and passion in his field.  Create a TARC educational outreach program.  Come up with some environmental project about his podunk corner of MI, do some research and present it to his congressional representative.

 

There are some wonderful LACs that would be good to apply to as back ups to Cornell.  LACs such as the on my son and Jane's son attend where there is funding for all kinds of mentored science research -- such as going to Iceland to study volcanos!  

 

I think your son should go for it, but still stay true to himself.  Find a way for the competitive tests, but do the activities he loves, and just document everything!

 

[Frances]

One of the things that might play in your favor is that admissions committees are looking to create "diverse" classes -- they don't want an incoming freshman class made up entirely of  AP-laden, sports playing kids from affluent suburban schools. Sometimes "diverse" can mean homeschool kids from tiny rural, economically depressed counties, kids who are in 4-H.  It is all about how you "package" your ds.

 

 

 

I think this is the most important thing to keep in mind. I know a recently admitted homeschooler with extremely high financial need who applied as a transfer from community college. They really are looking to create a diverse class. While he had good ECs and good test scores, there were no national or even state level awards. I think if you can demonstrate that your son has pursued his interests to the fullest using the resources available to him, he will stand a very good chance. My only piece of advice would be to have him really focus on a couple of areas of interest (maybe three?) and pursue them to the fullest extent possible, rather than pursuing many things. 

 

I did my grad work at Cornell and maybe it's changed a lot since I was there, but at the time there was a very wide range of abilities among the undergrads I interacted with and taught. At least back then, they definitely were not admitting just tippy top students. For example, I taught high school algebra during summer intensive sessions to prepare select groups of incoming students to take basic statistics classes during the regular school year.

[FaithManor]

Thanks Frances. The bulk of his interest is definitely in the sciences. There are things that he is passionate about and we would NEVER trade for gearing up for a selective school. I don't think those need to change anyway. TARC rocketry, his ecology research project, his DNR invasive species volunteer work, 4- H science fair, but he is definitely NOT passionate about the 4-H Youth Council or his tutoring. He does an excellent job with those and sticks with them so that he has something "leadership" ish for his transcript. However, I know he'd also drop them and spend more time on his ecology if he didn't think it would hurt his chance at college admissions/scholarships. We have to keep the scholarship issue in mind because Cornell is such a long shot, and at the other schools on his list are ones where he will really need merit money.

 

I don't know what to think about his humanities. On Cornell's website they mentioned looking for students committed to the sciences and humanities. Hmmm....this is the kid who really just is not interested in fine art or writing. He writes well. It is not something he cares much about though, and like I said he is just jumping hoops in his mind with the two fine arts courses he will have. He is all science, and all of his electives are science classes. This is no issue for MTU, U of MN, U of MI, MSU, and Eckerd.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

I think we need to visit the school too. Fit is important, and we haven't investigated Cornell up to this point.

[Teachin'Mine]

Faith the more you investigate the highly selective schools, the more you'll see their differences.  It always amazes me when a student applies to all the ivies, for example, as they are all so different from each other.  IMO that's someone who just wants the prestige of the name and didn't bother to learn about each of them and their unique strengths.   If you haven't already gotten it, I'd recommend the Fiske's Guide as it gives much more info than just the stats.   It's great that you're considering colleges now.  

[FaithManor]

Faith the more you investigate the highly selective schools, the more you'll see their differences.  It always amazes me when a student applies to all the ivies, for example, as they are all so different from each other.  IMO that's someone who just wants the prestige of the name and didn't bother to learn about each of them and their unique strengths.   If you haven't already gotten it, I'd recommend the Fiske's Guide as it gives much more info than just the stats.   It's great that you're considering colleges now.  

Thanks, I ordered the Fiske guide and anxiously await that Amazon package, LOL! This kid is so focused that if we had let him, he would have been investigating colleges in middle school. He had zero particular interests through 6th grade which is of course completely normal. By the end of 7th grade, after spending a little time with my cousin who is a PH.D researcher on the Great Lakes, he was sold. He's absolutely passionate about it.

 

That's probably my only concern about Cornell. HA! I have a concern about the quality of a Cornell program. Snicker, Snicker...but, the other schools he is looking at work directly with the Great Lakes Research Center at MTU, the SEAGRANT in Minnesota, and the NOAA Great Lakes Environmental Research Center in Ann Arbor. Actually, all of these institutions work together on the invasive species issues such as Sea Lampreys, Asian Carp, Grass Carp, Zebra Mussels, Alewifes, and on pollution of waterways, and destruction of coastline. So, I need to find out if Cornell is in on this. They aren't that far from Lake Ontario so it's possible. I'm waiting for more information. Certainly, I don't think a degree from Cornell is somehow going to be a ding when he wants to work for one of these organizations, LOL! However, he is serious about research and wants to be involved in undergrad research specific to the Great Lakes. Therefore, applying to Cornell is not YET a definite. The school is forwarding my questions to the biology/ecology/environmental science departments to see what they say.

 

I will say this, his emphasis on Great Lakes has been much easier to manage. Two years ago he was leaning towards temperate rainforest conservation. Yikes! Those programs, even in grad school studies, are not plentiful. Even U of Chicago works with the Great Lakes Research Center due to issues with Lake Michigan. So, I have schools in Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, as well as Michigan that are all options for him. New York, this is a new, undiscovered country LOL!

[Jane in NC]

Faith,

 

I think that admissions officers understand that not every kid has access to a range of AP classes.  At least it is my hope that they look for kids who have done the most within their circumstances.

 

In your shoes, I might have my son start working on a portfolio (just a step away from the 4-H project books and cumulative records that he is probably already doing). There are many kids who have breadth but how many will have the depth that your son has?  Just sell it!

[FaithManor]

Jane, you aways know the right thing to say! Thanks!!!!

[Teachin'Mine]

Faith I had a long post and was just looking up some more options, when it all disappeared.  Ugh.  But I'll try to remember and recreate an abbreviated version.

 

U of Chicago has a very heavy core - lots of non-science/non-math mandatory courses, so that might not be the best fit.  Check it out and see if it would work.  As for NY there's the SUNY-ESF and I think Rochester Institute of Technology might have a program as well.  Some of your in-state options are great as is U of Wisconsin.  It's great that he knows what he wants to study!  I'd definitely encourage him to talk with people at the Great Lakes Research something-or-other lol and ask them for suggestions for colleges and programs.   I'd also ask for ideas for summer programs or research.  It may be too late for programs this summer, but it's a great time to research for options for the next year.

[anne1456]

Cornell has a biological research station on Oneida Lake, where they do research.  It is not a Great Lake, but it is connected via canals/rivers, and it is a pretty large lake with similar issues.  I'd also second checking out SUNY ESF in Syracuse if you are looking in NY, their entire focus is the environment, and they do a lot with invasive species.  And they are all science, no humanities majors there.

[Emerald Stoker]

In re: Icelandic, Faith, would there be anything of interest here? http://umanitoba.ca/icelandic/ Summer program, distance ed, professor to chat with, something else?  There are tons of Icelanders in Manitoba!  (See the giant Viking in Gimli!)

[galtgrl]

My 2 should hear from Cornell next Thursday.  I'll pm you if they get in, if you'd find that helpful.

 

[wimseycat]

Faith,

 

You might want to take a look at these 6 videos from a Stanford adcom. I found them to be incredibly enlightening about what these schools are really looking for in an applicant. There were also some jaw dropping moments in this too, at least for my S and I. From what you have listed, I think your son's overall app would be amazing even at this point. He will need to be able to translate his experiences into some solid essays and that might be an area he can work on even now. I don't think the Common App questions and school supplement essays change that much from year to year.

 

I also agree with Jane in terms of the adcom looking at the resources you have available to you at the time. I would definitely look into SAT Subject testing because some Ivies want at least two (Princeton I know for sure) from traditional schooled kids. They may want more for homeschooled kids. There are some online resources for AP Chem, AP Bio, AP Calc, AP American Gov't (Thinkwell) and you could take the AP's in a different school district. My S has had to do this twice. Mango Languages is another online program we use for foreign language. They do offer Icelandic so that might work for you - just not sure how many levels they have.

 

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/india/1587925-stanford-admission-officer-scrutinising-application-case-studies.html

 

Good luck and I hope this helps!

Annika

[Jen in NY]

Jen in NY has a daughter at Cornell.

*waves hello*

 

I'll answer any question I can... but it's such a huge school with so much going on that each kid's experience applying and getting accepted will probably vary greatly. DD had a CC class, a few AP's, the required SAT IIs, and good recommendations. She had done a few 'unusual' things in high school to a high level... but not extraordinarily unusual... and no national awards or anything like that.

 

My dd loves Cornell --- and I am fairly happy with the situation thus far --- at least as happy as *I* (my pessimist, worrying, self) could have been about any of my kids leaving home and growing up. *sniff, sniff.* She has found it to be a challenging, exciting, diverse school in every way ... with really, really good food. She's got a job, she's on a project team that's designing and building a school for disabled kids in Haiti (cholera outbreak there right now ... and she's on a composting toilet design team), she's in the swing dance club, she's got a couple of faculty members that really know her ... she's made a million friends... she's having what looks to me like almost too much fun.... lol. But it's good. It's good. It's better for me to be miserable here wondering how it's all going to turn out than for her to be miserable there. And she's a good, responsible kid, so I should shelve some of the worry. It's a big place. It's a little bit of a pressure cooker. Everyone was tops in their classes in high school. Everyone doesn't get an A on every test anymore. Sometimes if I am there on a Friday night there are lots of kids in the libraries .... even at 11pm. But there are lots of kids that aren't in the library on Friday nights, too. They have lots of cool traditions --- like Slope Day, and three live Chimes concerts a day(worth a google to see the instrument), and Dragon Day (Architects vs. Engineers!). She lives in something that looks like Hogwarts... ditto for next year... a different Hogwarts, lol. Amazing. There are so many, many things to do. Clubs (so many clubs!!), lectures, concerts, their own ice cream factory, the plantations (gorgeous!), collegetown, ........... I wanna go.

 

IMHO I think being from out of state is a big + for your son.

 

Not sure what else to say. :) We made it abundantly clear that it was a bit of a crapshoot to apply, and she had other places on her radar. But in the end she got in ED and the finaid came together and it was a good decision all the way around.

[annabanana1992]

Is it safe to assume that the Nutrition at Cornell would be a difficult spot to get if some majors are harder than others?

[FaithManor]

Thanks everyone. I'm checking inot AP's and SAT II's. It looks like I'm going to drive 1.5 hrs. each way for each one. Yes, that's how many schools are not offering classes or proctoring. He has his World History from last year, but it's obviously not going to be enough. This is going to be a lot of hoop jumping, but we'll do our best. The worst thing is that looking at the previous year's test dates, if we did the pre calc SAT II and the environmental science AP next year, he will havd to give up his position on the rocket team and I will have to give up being rocket mom. I'm really struggling with my emotions on this! But the TARC nationals never change because that is the only Wed throug Sunday that they can have that field before high school graduations commence or senior final exams, as well as getting the 200 volunteers together that it takes to pull it off.

 

I won't lie. If he wants to do it, we'll support him 100%, but it is going to really hurt me to give it up for the sake of standardized tests. Plus, he will lose his last opportunity for another top 10 finish before college apps go out.

 

I think I need to get through this TARC season before facing this.

[Barbara H]

SAT subject tests have several test dates through the year. The foreign language are more tricky for timing, but both math levels are offered six times through the year. Does that help?

 

I really wouldn't give up a good extracurricular for an AP, especially not AP enviro science which is viewed as a really light AP that doesn't carry much weight. Also, you don't have to look at the previous years test dates if that helps. The 2015 schedule is available.

[creekland]

Do  NOT give up TARC.  It will mean far more on his app than any standardized tests.  Choose other tests or testing dates.  If you can't choose other tests or testing dates, then explain and sell - but TARC will be worth FAR more IMO.

[snowbeltmom]

 The worst thing is that looking at the previous year's test dates, if we did the pre calc SAT II and the environmental science AP next year, he will havd to give up his position on the rocket team and I will have to give up being rocket mom. I'm really struggling with my emotions on this! But the TARC nationals never change because that is the only Wed throug Sunday that they can have that field before high school graduations commence or senior final exams, as well as getting the 200 volunteers together that it takes to pull it off.

 

 

 

Each AP exam is offered twice in May.  If your son has a conflict with the original date, he can test on the late testing date.  When you register for the AP exam, make sure you inform the guidance counselor that your son has a conflict with the "regular" testing date.  The guidance counselor needs to know how many of the regular exams and the late testing exams need to be ordered.  There is a "late testing fee" of $45, but there are some circumstances where the College Board will waive that additional fee.

 

Good luck with everything!

 

[creekland]

An additional thought - don't be afraid to reach out to admissions at Cornell (in a couple of weeks after they finish decisions from this year) and ask (as a guidance counselor) what they'd like to see in your situation.  Try to find out who does homeschool admissions if you can.

 

They can't give you an automatic "do this and you're in" deal, of course, but they can be good at giving advice.

 

I did this with several schools before making decisions on testing and course selection with middle son.  I've always received pleasant e-mails back.

 

Just be sure your questions are concise and "business-like" rather than drawn out and "helicopter parentish."  You don't want to turn them off.  You just want info.  It took me little a while to draft, write, and send something I felt I was happy with.  Having answers from admissions themselves definitely helped us chart our course.

[Muttichen]

My son took an AP test late and there was no extra fee.  He did have two exams scheduled at the same time, though, so maybe that's why.

 

I missed what year your son is.  If he's a junior now, I DEFINITELY wouldn't give up anything for an AP test next year.  He'll already be admitted to college by the time the test rolls around.  Have him take some AP classes, so colleges can see he's working hard senior year, but don't worry about the tests.

 

A friend's dd is at Cornell and loves it!  So far, none of mine has applied there.  Ds19 was planning to, but he got into Harvard EA. 

 

 

[Caroline]

Honestly, I think your son's TARC experience outweighs the AP Environmental Science exam by a long shot. But, I am not an admissions counselor at Cornell, so I am no expert.

[Teachin'Mine]

Another vote for not giving up TARC for the sake of an AP test.  Then again, we didn't do any AP testing.  However, I would suggest that your son do SAT II tests in math and sciences at the least as many schools do request them, and it's a way for homeschoolers in particular to validate their grades.  This is advice I'm seeing as beneficial, in hindsight.  :tongue_smilie:  Our lack of focus on standardized testing may be hurting dd's chances at some colleges, but neither of us would have given up all the great learning and involvement that took place instead.  Hopefully some colleges will appreciate her choices and consider them of value in her pursuits. 

 

Brilliant advice by Creekland to ask admissions directly.  

[FaithManor]

He is a Sophomore. Thankfully, we are looking at this in time to change things if we choose to do so. Next year at this time would be too late.

 

I just had an interesting email from my cousin. She is a PH.D for U of MN, and has her lab and research grant up at UMD (Duluth campus) right now due to working on tributaries of Lake Superior in that region. She only teaches one course at the UMD grad school, but she sits on U of MN's grad school admission's committee as well as advises for eight other grad schools - some of them fairly tippy top - because of her expertise and specifically when it comes to Great Lakes Ecology and Conservation. She is a consultant for MN, WI, IL, MI, OH, PA, and NY governments on the ongoing issues of zebra mussels, Asian Carp, etc. and she was actually NOT impressed with him attending Cornell. Their main researcher for freshwater ecology who used to run a really neat research project on Lake Ontario has retired, and the project fell apart. She told me that in her grad school department she would take a student out of MTU over one from Cornell any day of the week due to the fact that they had more opportunities at the smaller schools to interact with professors and be involved in undergrad research. Plus, for exactly what she does, her grad school students are pretty much selected out of specific programs. Cornell is not one. But then, I would also imagine that most Cornell grads aren't going into this particular niche field. It's a very, very specialized program and most biology majors are probably looking at other areas of research besides Great Lakes Ecology.

 

He really wants to visit and get a feel for the place, and before we make any major decisions, I think that is the place to start. It's along shot school, and I think that he could thrive there. But, he might not be happy in the environment or spending his last two years there doing research or having internships that are outside his ultimate area of focus. I think there is a real unknown there. I just think he needs to see it for himself, and talk to someone there about his specific passion. For all we know, they have something very exciting on the horizon in his area of interest and my cousin just doesn't know about it yet.

 

Oh, if you want to know who she is, she is Dr. Valerie Brady. She was the grad school student, many moons ago (LOL) who discovered the zebra mussels in Saginaw Bay. No one knew until then that they had been introduced to the Great Lakes. She was also a consultant for the Great Lakes Research Center in Ann Arbor on the development of "lampreycide" which is an enzyme based poison that works uniquely to prevent sea lamprey eggs from hatching. Sea lampreys had just about destroyed the lake trout population - amongst several other species as well - in Lake Superior. There seemed to be no way to stop them until this came along. In a few short years, their population has fallen 90% and the nearly extinct fish populations of Lake Superior have been successfully reintroduced with populations almost normal now. This is the kind of thing ds wants to be involved with, so she's really helping me flesh out his education path.

 

We'll visit and see what happens.

[wimseycat]

I agree with Muttichen. Schedule AP courses for your son's senior year. They are looking for rigor and taking the highest level courses available to you. That is what will go on your application. I wouldn't worry too much if he can't take the AP tests because of a (better) prior commitment. His AP scores will be a moot point because you will already have received a decision before he takes those tests. I don't think you would be trying to use the AP score to substitute for Cornell coursework anyway right?

[FaithManor]

I agree with Muttichen. Schedule AP courses for your son's senior year. They are looking for rigor and taking the highest level courses available to you. That is what will go on your application. I wouldn't worry too much if he can't take the AP tests because of a (better) prior commitment. His AP scores will be a moot point because you will already have received a decision before he takes those tests. I don't think you would be trying to use the AP score to substitute for Cornell coursework anyway right?

We would not use AP tests in place of ANY coursework. I'm against that because I believe that at a good school, it is highly likely that a college professor will bring experience and depth to the curriculum that a high school teacher does not have. I'm not demeaning high school teachers, but the reality is that they do not have research experience, usually unless they were once in a different profession and then came to teaching after some years in the field, and so I feel AP...with the possible exception of the level of depth I bring as a professional pianist to DS's AP music theory...demonstrates nothing more than taking the most challenging courses available to the high schooler, but I don't think they are truly college level just because college level texts were used. We advise the kids to NOT take credit for AP.

 

I really missed out on some valuable courses in college when I CLEP tested out of history, English Literature, etc. That's not something I want to replicate for my sons even though it might save some dollars.

[Dmmetler]

Does he have connections with any of the professional associations working in his desired field? One thing I hadn't known about until this year, when DD's mentor suggested we apply, is that many of the professional groups have pre-baccalareate support for students not yet in college to join their organization, get access to their publications (often online only) and attend their professional conferences/meetings. That gives a chance to see what research is actually being done at various universities, which schools actively involve undergraduate students in research, to talk to students in the programs, and meet some of the faculty members and see if it's a good fit.

 

 

[FaithManor]

Thanks for that link, Dot! I'm sending it to my cousin. She must not be aware of this new program. I did note that two undergrads were pictured in the lab testing water samples. That's encouraging. His research project on Great Lakes Invasives in the Cass river (feeder river for Lake Huron) could possibly position him for an undergrad research opportunity.

 

One thing I want to check out is how many sophomore through senior level courses are taught by TA's. I like that ratio to be fairly small with opportunities to interact with professors, and develop enough relationship to get letters of recommendation to grad school from actual professors and not grad students themselves. When my cousin was at MSU getting her PH.D, she said the professors didn't even know the names of the undergrads that worked in the labs. She wrote letters of recommendation, and her advisor never wrote a single one. She was very concerned about the undergrads because she felt that in her field in particular, it was hard for them to thrive.

 

That article was a real encouragement though! Thank you so much for taking the time to find it for me.

[FaithManor]

Does he have connections with any of the professional associations working in his desired field? One thing I hadn't known about until this year, when DD's mentor suggested we apply, is that many of the professional groups have pre-baccalareate support for students not yet in college to join their organization, get access to their publications (often online only) and attend their professional conferences/meetings. That gives a chance to see what research is actually being done at various universities, which schools actively involve undergraduate students in research, to talk to students in the programs, and meet some of the faculty members and see if it's a good fit.

We are waiting to see if he is accepted into MTU's pre-college field department. If he is, he'll be a research assistant this summer at Fort Gratiot in the Keeweenaw collecting water samples and aquatic insects for study. This is an inland fresh water lake sandwiched in a narrow peninsula in Lake Superior. They take about 200 applications for the week he'd be heavily involved, and accept 8. So we wait. If he gets into that program, then throughout the year, he'll have an ongoing relationship with the researchers on this project. Also, P has developed a relationship with Dr. Werner at MTU and is helping him with some research while being mentored on his own invasive project for a local river that feeds Lake Huron.

 

Thanks!

[daijobu]

 

You could get very creative with Icelandic.  Perhaps via Skype with a native speaker?  Or translating some old sagas?  Or doing a critical review of the translation of some current Icelandic literature, such as the novels by Sjon.   (Off topic, but my youngest ds spent 2 weeks in Iceland doing geology research last summer.  He learned a bit of the language, but because he is tall, blue-eyed with a fair complexion, once he started wearing an Icelandic sweater people assumed he was a local and spoke to him in Icelandic!)

 

 

 

I agree with sticking to ICELANDIC!  How cool is that?  Plus, I bet there is a great story about his interest in Iceland and the language.  Just the sort of thing he might want to write about in his essay.  ;)  Do anything you can to develop this interest.  How many other applicants to Cornell are going to have that angle?  (Not many.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The Rotary Exchange program and ADS both have exchange students from Iceland.

You might try contacting the regional or state rep from these programs to see if there are students placed in your area who would be interested in a conversation partner.

 

Don't discount what make your kid unique. I notice that in your op you tend to Mark other kids' activities as unique and your kid's activities as weird. I think you may sell your own kid short.

 

In my write ups for my alma mater it would matter a lot that he's out there forging his own path rather than a predetermined one that all the college kids in his class are talking.

[raptor_dad]

The one thing I question on this thread is whether your DS's focus is too narrow. Great Lakes ecology seems very narrow... ecology, or even aquatic ecology seems fine. Looking at professional societies could clarify this greatly... Is your Ds really solely interested in Great Lake's ecology or is that mainly a function of what he has been exposed to?

 

Cornell would have resources to broaden his exposure... likewise other Ivies like Dartmouth also have world class ecology... they have whole ecosystem studies going on up in the "second grant" that are amazingly long lived... or taking the other coast, Washington is a second tier school generally and their bio program is probably third tier *but* for ecology and evolution it is very strong(probably on par with the Ivies)... and if you want applied ecology their is plenty of interesting stuff going on out at Friday Harbor. From what you have posted MTU seems like a great fit but I wouldn't discount other strong ecology schools just based on a lack of Great Lakes focus. 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Faithmanor - our son's seem to be quite similar.  Thank you for posting your questions.  I have read this thread with increasing interest. 

 

[*LC]

One thing I want to check out is how many sophomore through senior level courses are taught by TA's. I like that ratio to be fairly small with opportunities to interact with professors, and develop enough relationship to get letters of recommendation to grad school from actual professors and not grad students themselves. When my cousin was at MSU getting her PH.D, she said the professors didn't even know the names of the undergrads that worked in the labs. She wrote letters of recommendation, and her advisor never wrote a single one. She was very concerned about the undergrads because she felt that in her field in particular, it was hard for them to thrive.

I wonder if who writes recommendation letters or good recommendation letters will differ from professor to professor more than from school to school. My daughter is a freshman at a big state school, and she needed two letters to recommendation to apply for a summer research program at a different university earlier this semester. She had one letter from the advisor to a competition team she is on, but she needed another. She wanted one from the professor of the class she took in her major fall semester, so she went to his office. He wasn't there, but the professor for the major class she has this semester was there. She had not wanted to ask him, because she had not had any tests in his class yet. She had done projects/labs, so she decided to ask. He was glad to write the reference, and she was hired for the research project. This class is her largest academic class and has about 100 students in it. The labs sections only have 25. 

 

A funny side note is she had to go see the professor this week, because she was having trouble with the project that is due next week. When she was explaining the problem, she said she could tell he was mentally going through the names of the girls in class, not many, trying to come up with her name. When it was his time to respond, he apologized for not remembering her name and said "You are not *Christina.*" She had to say actually, "I am *Chistina.*" She has just started wearing glasses, so she looks different than she has the rest of the semester. 

[lewelma]

What is TARC?

 

Ruth in NZ

[FaithManor]

What is TARC?

 

Ruth in NZ

Team America Rocketry Challenge

 

Here is link for more information:

 

www.rocketcontest.org

The team is out launching for practice today and I'm home with a near migraine which makes me very sad because I HATE missing it.

[kiana]

I missed this before, but it is a great school and two of my siblings had wonderful experiences there. Some of the classes are large lectures with TA's for recitations, but most of them were not that big comparatively speaking -- just the freshmen 'weeder' courses, and even then, a qualified student who has chosen the 'honors' option should be able to get into a much smaller section.