NatureMomma Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Sorry for the typos! on my phone! I am a long time lurker and don't post much, but id really like some advice from the hive. I'll try to make this as brief as possible. 7 years ago, my do got hired on by a Fortune 500 company, through a friend of a friend, and it was a big step up from Pest Control sales, which he had been doing, so we moved across the country to From So-Cal to the south. He started out with the lowest base pay salary, and not much more than he was making doing pest control, but the company at the time was handing our raises and bonuses right and left...he has no degree only classes and experience, so he considered himself lucky to he in this position, and expected a raise the next year. That next year the economy crashed, and they said no more raises, no more bonuses. This is one of the oldest company's, and they jumped on the bandwagon with everyone else. Fast forward to 3 years ago, my husband very quickly became known as a hard worker, and was a handling more accounts than his co-workers, he developed a reputation, and his clients loved him. - these were with some of the biggest international, well known names. They also did a team wide pay cut at this time of 20 percent pay, and started firing people right and left and demanding more of the ones who stayed. They also structured any bonus to be team performance related, which means if the team doesn't make their numbers, no one gets paid. His 'team' don't have anything to do with each other. My husband is responsible for sending email campaigns out for huge companies, so he's directly customer power related. It was just another way for them to cut costs. My daughter also got diagnosed with a chronic health condition, which is very complex and serious. So at this time, although he was upset about these changes, we were focusing on her health, and needing insurance, over trying to figure out what he should be getting paid, and asking for more. The last 2 years- his position changed within the company, now a senior account manager, he was single handledly given the whole of a huge company to launch across Europe. Along with that he developed and figured out a very complex issue that was threatening their loss if this company because of overall bad management higher up, He was expected to start traveling more, to Mexico, Chicago several times a year, NY, Atlanta, and last year traveledto Europe for a total of 3 months...He's known he's severaly underpaid for some time, especially because of his "promotion" 2 years ago, with a pay 'decrease' under the new 'bonus' structure. I have been trying to get him to ask for a raise for some time, and he just felt like there was too many ovens in the fire with our daughter being so sick, he didnt want to rock the boat. We were simply trying to find a way to just keep going. He's been very unhappy the last year with his job, and the amount if work they expect of him. They completely depend on him for the European launch- literally NO ONE else is capable of doing what he does, and they would severaly hurt if he left. Hes so tired of being treated like this, and the level of work hes epxpeted with the SAME salary he had when he started, that month he was just done- he applied for jobs all over the US, and also virtually and hasn't been able to find ANYTHING. He then talked to his boss and requested to be paid what his job is worth, according to what 'tier' he is, he knew he was in the bottom of his pay structure. His boss actually admitted that he was underpaid, he didnt know how that happened and he would try to get HR to approve the new pay raise, but he didnt think they would, it would be hard, yada yada. My husband has asked for what he thought he was market value, he knows they need him, and literally NO ONE could do his job. He is holding his team together. His boss approved. 4thousand pay raise and that was it. No where close to what he is worth. WELL.... HR accidentally sent out an email to everyone in his division yesterday, announcing the 'bonuses' for the year, and somehow my husband was able to retrieve and login yo the system, the WHOLE divisions salary.... That is about 200 employees. They made a mistake but he said unless you know computers you wouldn't automatically be able to retrieve this info.... Well- He gets payed less than EVERYONE else, as in 50, 000 less than everyone else within his division. His company even has a tiered below average, and average, and above average salary, and he doesn't even get paid on the below average for his company. Its below that, and he is on par with others who get paid Above average, meaning he should be geting paid 50 k more than he does Customer power, who he TRAINED to be HELPERS to answer directly to HIM, get paid about 15k more than him.... They don't even have the value that he does. .for some reason he is literally making at least 50 THOUSAND less than what the HR says tierd for. He is saddened, and shocked, and feels stuck, and out of options. I'm not surprised at all. I knew how much at least one of his coworkers was getting, and know what his job is worth. He's severaly under market to the point it's humiliating for him. So what do we do? He now has some very valuable info- and doesn't know how to use it. Does he say something? He doeant want to be accused of being unethical but this is very eye openeing and shows how little they value him. people with a lower level postion are making more than him, way more. He has been trying to negotiate with his boss for WEEKS, and they keep saying they can't pay him what he's asking, but its way less than his position calls for. He stumbled across this by accident. We live paycheck to paycheck, no vacations, no new anything, no money for our daughter medical bills, and yet people think because he's traveling to Europe he must be getting paid well... To make matters worse.... We feel stuck because he can't find another job, and we really want to move back home, as we aren't happy here. So he feels locked in this situation... Sorry this is so long, if you've made it this far, thank you for! What should he do, and how should this be handled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I don't think he should try to use the confidential info because it will only reflect badly on him. I would keep looking for another job in a place you would like to live, and give notice once a good offer is obtained. If they want him, they will give him a big raise to keep him. If not, at least he will be happier in a different job and different hometown. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureMomma Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 He can't find anything. He applied for many, many jobs last month, with no results. He feels so trapped in this situation because there's not another offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Keep looking. Millions of folks have been there before. Keep looking. Something will turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Many companies have policies that prohibit discussion of other employee's salaries. Even if your husband's specific company doesn't, I agree with SKL that this would likely reflect poorly on him.Since he's negotiated for a raise and the company is unwilling to give him one, the only real option would seem to be to look for something else that pays more in line with his qualifications and experience. The last time DH changed jobs (a few years ago), he spent 10 months looking. As miserable as job searching is, I honestly don't think one month is an adequate time to devote to something like that before giving up. It seems like he's very talented and qualified, it's probably just a matter of looking hard and waiting until something pops. :grouphug: Edited to ask: Why "bonus" in quotes? Is a significant percentage of his pay intended, under his pay structure, to be based on bonus? Is he/his team regularly meeting whatever metrics are required to get his/their bonuses? I ask because it seems that in most jobs DH has worked at, if an employee or a team is not regularly getting the metrics to get their bonuses, they'd be unlikely to get a salary raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If it were me I would start talking to the clients for the company that he works for and see if he can find a job that way. If they know him and like him, that would be a foot in the door. With the skills that you say he has, someone else should be willing to hire him especially if they know him, even if the work is somewhat different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Looking for a job for one month is a very, very short amount of time. My husband devoted 14 months to his last job search. Your husband now knows how little he is valued at the company he works for. He should not say anything but he should continue the job search. Eventually he'll find something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 A professional level job search easily takes 6 to 12 months. It is a long term project. If his boss knows (or will find out) that dh knows about the salaries due to the email glitch, then he could probably use it. (UNLESS he did something unethical to get it . . . If he logged in to something with a password he shouldn't have had . .. then, NO, he should NEVER say word one. EVER.) But, assuming he really just accidentally got a email that blatantly provided this info . . . then he is "innocent" . . . He definitely should NOT say anything to anyone outside of his boss or HR. For sure! He could ask for a private meeting. Then say, "Hey, Joe, I am in a very awkward position. Last week, this email went out, obviously in error, that provided me with salary data for our whole division. I was shocked, and I know it went out in error, and I haven't and won't mention it to anyone else. But, I wanted you to be aware that this email went out to me (and to x,y,z), so this data is out there. Anyway, I was surprised to see that I am being paid 15k less than the folks who report to me . . . and 50k less than comparable positions. I know money is tight, but this is unfair. I want to give you some time to think about this. Can you reconsider my salary, please?" But, that's a big risk. He could get fired. He'd be safest to search for a new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa R. Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 First, he should not use confidential information he accidentally saw to ask for a higher salary. This can only backfire. Second, it is important to stop thinking of him as irreplaceable. Someone else could do his job, at least eventually. This is wrong thinking. Everyone is replaceable--even the president of the United States. I've heard people before state they are irreplaceable, and I think it gives them a false sense of their place in a company and a feeling of overconfidence. Third, it can take awhile to find a job. Please don't be discouraged if he can't find one this soon. Keep trying. Also, hopefully he's been networking with these clients he has. That is likely to be his best source of job opportunities. Fourth, is it possible his lack of college degree is keeping his salary down? Your dh sounds so capable, but a lack of degree can hold people back in certain industries. Rather than argue whether this is fair or not, it may make sense for him to finish a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If he doesn't have a college degree, and his colleagues do, that is a justifiable reason for his salary being lower. Perhaps he should consider taking classes at night. Otherwise, he needs to find another job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian summer Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Couldn't he say he's done some research and knows that his position is generally worth $50K more? He doesn't have to say where he did the research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian summer Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If he doesn't have a college degree, and his colleagues do, that is a justifiable reason for his salary being lower. Perhaps he should consider taking classes at night. Otherwise, he needs to find another job. I disagree with this because he has experience and apparently specialized skills that no one there seems to have. They only underpay him because up until now, he didn't know what he was worth, so essentially they could get away with it. If we were talking two 22 year olds, one with a degree and the other without, I would agree with you, but not in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I agree with the advice you've already been given. In regards to looking for a new job, is he on LinkedIn? This was extremely important for my dh when he was laid off and looking for a new job a couple of years ago, and he still is contacted routinely by recruiters in his field for opportunities (although he is currently very happy in his position and not looking for anything else). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I think he should continue to work two angles at once - continue to advocate for himself for a raise AND continue to look for another job - quietly and through the contacts he has made in his seven years working with clients. I do not think he should use confidential information. It sounds like he knew the information was confidential when he got into it - that without his computer knowledge, he would not have been able to. I think his employer will hold this against him. Just because they made mistake that allowed him to access confidential information does not mean he should have availed himself of the opportunity. I would be furious someone grabbed the chance to check other people's salaries. Many people are in jobs where they COULD access other people's private information - their salary, health history, disciplinary history etc. Just becomes you want to know and have a way of finding out does NOT make it ok to snoop around. Since you really need the health insurance for your daughter, I would do nothing to jeopardize his job. He should be especially discreet in his job search, continue to work hard in the meantime, and be grateful for the work he has. You do NOT want to end up without a job when your daughter really needs the benefits. But that does not mean he should not continue to pursue a pay raise. He may need help figuring out how to negotiate that kind of situation, if he lacks experience in it. And I agree with whoever said that no one is irreplaceable. Really, no one is. I have never seen an irreplaceable job. There are irreplaceable roles. No one can take the place of my Grandma in my life. But after a few rocky weeks or months, someone will figure out how to do your DH's job. They might mess things up for a while. The company might lose clients, but eventually it will get sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I think he should not mention that he knows the information, but he should simply go to his higher up with a clearly laid out idea of a) what he's accomplished in the company b) his workload and c) comparable pay of similar positions in other companies. Then he should ask for a raise. And if they say 'no' then he can go about looking for a new position. He could even tell them that. While he is replaceable in the long-term I highly doubt the company is going to let him go in anticipation of him leaving, they'll wait and hang onto him as long as they can until he actually leaves for real. Clearly he can and should push for a fair wage for his work, and I think he can do that without the info. he found. Honestly they'll be dumb if they're surprised, he could have done this much sooner if he wasn't just busy with understandable family concerns until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureMomma Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Thank you all for your replies... To answer a few questions, an email campaign was sent out to everyone in his division, and since he's a campaign manager, and writes emails, he was able to retrieve the information, which he thinks some of his co-workers also have probably done. It was an oversight for HR to send it out in the manner they did, and he probably shouldn't have looked at the information, but it was right there, and not hidden. So probably not ethical, but it was sent directly to his campaign inbox, and HR didnt realize it... He does not have a degree- but not everyone on his team does. He does have 7 years experience with this company, and 2 more with his previous company, along with doing some certification courses on his own, to build up his résumé and experience level in dealing with these new launches in Europe. They have told him many times, and his co-workers have admitted too, that his position is invaluable- his client brings in by far the most amount of money within his group, and no one else is capable of handling the clients he has, and they don't want to. It is just bad mismanagement all around, and I do think his lack of a degree on paper will hinder him a bit from getting another position. It will probably be through networking. I really think what happened is he got base pay, economy crashed, they suspended all raises, and just never altered his pay. It's so bizarre, its unbelievable that they expect this kind of dedication on his current salary. They pay more for him to train his helpers than they do him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 A month is nothing in a job search. Has he contacted head hunters in his industry? He may want to contact a lawyer who specializes in employment law to see what his options are before making any moves regarding the pay tier information. That must be very frustrating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureMomma Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 He's not on LinkedIn- he realized last month after talking to a few people how much those connections are needed. Honestly- he probably would have brought it up sooner if it wasn't for the severe amount if stress we've been under with my daughter. He even started gettin up and working at 4:00 am to be available to his clients in Europe this last month. I know that if he left, they would just shuffle people around, and have several people full his role, but his direct boss told him last month when he initially asked for a raise, that if he left, he would do so as well. That it would be just TOO. MUCH. His higher ups would demand more than he could handle and he wouldn't deal with the fall out... So he REALLY is needed... But yet, because of procedures, he said it was just too difficult to ask for that much of a raise- that a 4 percent increase is all he could do..... After he got done telling him he's severely underpaid. This isn't the kind of company that treats their employees good, they are not hurting for money. It's one of the oldest companies.... He just feels so stuck :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 He needs to: 1. Get on LinkedIn. Like now. Use a photo. Look at the way other people in the field use LinkedIn and copy the best examples. Include work samples if possible. Request reccomendations from co-workers, clients, vendors, anyone who will say yes. Spend a little time each day on LinkedIn writing recs for others and networking. 2. Be proactive about a job search, including setting up informational interviews with people that have jobs he is interested in. 3. Get.a.degree. This is no longer optional unless he wants to stay there long term. A degree will make him more portable, lol. Look for regionally accredited non-profit or public universities with online options. UMass has a low cost online option call University without Walls. There is WGU, which is $3000 per 6 months. There are many others. Avoid for profit places or anything without REGIONAL accreditation. National accreditation is the realm of degree mills. If you are living paycheck to paycheck and he has a family to support, file FAFSA because you will probably benefit from loans. 4. He should do his job well but set boundaries that will allow him to work on his degree. Hell, see if his company pays for his degree, many will. 5. Consider working with a job coach. 6. Drop the sense of being irreplaceable. Drop the feelings of inadequacy. Stop ascribing negative or willful intent to his employers. He is being underpaid because he got this job without a degree at the beginning of a recession. Starting from that point will leave you behind financially. Graduating in a recession has a near career long impact on salary. Starting your first corporate job without a degree in a recession can be even more of a drag on long term career earnings. It's not right and it can be fixed but not with an attitude of entitlement or bitterness. Use your medical insurance to see a counselor around these issues if necessary. 7. Do not use information that many would consider to have been gained unethically. It would look bad because it is bad. Sorry. Unless he can show that he is part of a pattern of being underpaid because of his gender, race, religion or other reason there is no law that companies must pay people equitably. Companies usually base their offers on the person's previous salary. His was low so they low balled him. They will keep lowballing him until they have to make a decision to pay him more or lose him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I really, really agree with everything Lucy Stoner (Katie) said above!! Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Agreeing with the others. --He should not reveal that he knows other people's salaries. I know it was clearly someone else's error, but it will look bad for him no matter what. Especially in the negative environment you describe, this will be twisted to reflect badly on him. --He needs to get a degree. --He is not irreplaceable, mostly because the company will never, ever see it that way. Corporations always, always see people as replaceable and dispensable. --One month is nothing in the scope of a job search. My dh has always had to search for many, many months. That is the nature of the beast. That goes double for someone without a degree. I don't mean to make him feel inadequate about the degree. We all know that the presence of a degree is NOT an indication of a person's ability or knowledge. It is, unfortunately, a requirement in the corporate world. I'm really sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I know that if he left, they would just shuffle people around, and have several people full his role, but his direct boss told him last month when he initially asked for a raise, that if he left, he would do so as well. That it would be just TOO. MUCH. His higher ups would demand more than he could handle and he wouldn't deal with the fall out... So he REALLY is needed... It might be worth distinguishing between your DH being indispensable to his immediate supervisor (which it sounds like he is) and him being indispensable to the larger company. No matter how valuable a single employee is to their boss, it is likely that the company would view both the individual employee and the boss both as replaceable. It's unfortunate, but seems to be a reality of modern business. This isn't intended to disparage his value. Just to point out how the corporation might view the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The problem is that his boss, if this is a large company, has really no recourse to give him a raise. The budget for the year will have already been set, by higher ups, and without taking money away from somewhere else/someone else, there just isn't any money to give him. This has happened to us before. Get on linked in, and contact recruiters. Recruiters are VERY valuable. My husband was in a similar spot, and jumped about that much in salary in a few years by using recruiters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I disagree with this because he has experience and apparently specialized skills that no one there seems to have. They only underpay him because up until now, he didn't know what he was worth, so essentially they could get away with it. If we were talking two 22 year olds, one with a degree and the other without, I would agree with you, but not in this case. The OP seems to have said that this is a major corporation. His local boss will not determine his salary. The HR department can legally differentiate between employees that have a college degree and those who don't and pay them accordingly. As long as he does not have a degree, he will be less valuable to this corporation than those who do. No matter what his age. It doesn't look good on paper to only show a high school diploma. And he is NOT indispensable, no matter what his boss says, or no matter what they are telling him to make him feel good. Nobody is. That's just the cold hard facts of the corporate world. And I would bet a million dollars that his boss would not quit if the OP's husband left. That's nonsense. They're trying to placate him, and string him along. He needs to get out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 No worker is indispensable. No worker is. If that were true, companies would regularly fall apart when employees moved on (or died, or whatever). They don't. Companies like to tell people how important they are so that they can engender pride and loyalty in their employees, but really, someone else can be found to do any job. If your husband reveals that he did something unethical, he is not only jeopardizing his job, he's ruining any chance to get a raise. Would you give a raise to someone who flat-out told you they took advantage of someone else's mistake to do something unethical? Would you even want to continue to employ that person? My husband is severely underpaid where he is. He knows that he won't get a raise because, on paper, he has maxed out his position. Unfortunately, they unofficially assign him quite a bit more work than he should have based on his position. He's looking for a new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 He needs to continue looking for another job via contacts that he has made through work. If he has traveled extensively he should have made many contacts by now. He has confidential information and should not do anything with it. My husband has asked for raises and promotions and has received them, but I don't think telling his boss that, "hey, I know how much Bob down the aisle makes" would do anything positive. Best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureMomma Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Thank you for all the helpful, thoughtful responses. I appreciate the feedback. He will definitely work on a LinkedIn profile, and has thought about a headhunter. He's continuing to get certified in courses, and has been taking night classes. This is the things I'm havig a hard time understand though- His company assigns everyone from a secretary to the top executive positions a 'level' and base their pay on that. Out of 15 levels, he's an level 11. Within each level theirs a tier, and they give an anual review and communicate what tier theyre in within their level. So theirs below average performance, average, and above average, and they pay is variable within a certain amount based on their review. It never goes down, but more pay equals more performance. So his boss cant figure out why for so long his previous managers did nothing to negotiate a higher salary, because regardless of no degree or not, hes tiered for at least a certain salary... does that make sense? He knew he was being vastly underpaid, but just couldn't focuse on anything much besides our daughter and insurance we needed. Now after asking for the raise after the amount if work they expected, and traveling, it's just crazy that hes not even getting thw baseline for what his level is assigned to. It's in black and white on the HR website... It's how they pay EVERYONE in the company... He was able to log in and see, within his level, how his company pays.... He should be getting a minimum amount, but they have told him recently in his annual review that he's above average, and on par with 2 other managers. The problem is they want to pay him more, and know his worth, but because he's had no pay increase, its like getting a 50k raise and they don't think logistically they can do that. It really sucks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureMomma Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Sorry for all the horrible grammar, typos, etc!! I'm on my phone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 He was able to log in and see, within his level, how his company pays.... He should be getting a minimum amount, but they have told him recently in his annual review that he's above average, and on par with 2 other managers. The problem is they want to pay him more, and know his worth, but because he's had no pay increase, its like getting a 50k raise and they don't think logistically they can do that. It really sucks.... If his pay is below the published baseline for level 11, then his boss and/or HR has not been doing their job. It is time to network and look for another job. I had only worked at MNCs and some have the level system for salaries so I do understand how it works. A 50k raise is not impossible in a large corporation. If his boss really want to pay him more, his boss could have gave him performance bonuses for all the extra work they heap on him. It just sound like lip service to me. As to knowing other people's salaries, it is usually in the company's code of ethics not to divulge any personal information including salary that people happen to know. Your husband saw the salaries and is unhappy about it. Unfortunately it would be unprofessional for him to use that information to bargain and would get him into hotter soup than the person who make the mistake which allows him to see that information. LinkedIn and recruiters help my husband and his ex-colleague land a job before his ex-company gave out the official retrenchment notices to their department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 FWIW, "they say" it costs a company 6-12 months salary to replace an employee. If what you say is accurate (in the eyes of the company), then if your dh leaves, the company will not only have to expend that amount in hiring/training a replacement, but then they would also have to pay the "going salary" to hire someone comparable to your dh. So, yes, I am sure the company could and would afford the cost if he leaves, as they will have no choice but to hire a replacement. (And, I do agree with others. No one is irreplaceable. In our small business, we've repeatedly lost someone we thought was irreplaceable. In each case, within a year, we were happy they'd left, as we had better team members in their position! I do now have one employee I think is irreplaceable . . . But I do all I can to KEEP her, which your dh's company is obviously not doing. In actuality, though, my fave employee isn't irreplaceable, and we all know it. It would just make me miserable and create a huge amount of work for me personally if she left. Thus, even though we are ALL replaceable, some are more easily replaceable than others.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 He needs to: 1. Get on LinkedIn. Like now. Use a photo. Look at the way other people in the field use LinkedIn and copy the best examples. Include work samples if possible. Request reccomendations from co-workers, clients, vendors, anyone who will say yes. Spend a little time each day on LinkedIn writing recs for others and networking. 2. Be proactive about a job search, including setting up informational interviews with people that have jobs he is interested in. 3. Get.a.degree. This is no longer optional unless he wants to stay there long term. A degree will make him more portable, lol. Look for regionally accredited non-profit or public universities with online options. UMass has a low cost online option call University without Walls. There is WGU, which is $3000 per 6 months. There are many others. Avoid for profit places or anything without REGIONAL accreditation. National accreditation is the realm of degree mills. If you are living paycheck to paycheck and he has a family to support, file FAFSA because you will probably benefit from loans. 4. He should do his job well but set boundaries that will allow him to work on his degree. Hell, see if his company pays for his degree, many will. 5. Consider working with a job coach. 6. Drop the sense of being irreplaceable. Drop the feelings of inadequacy. Stop ascribing negative or willful intent to his employers. He is being underpaid because he got this job without a degree at the beginning of a recession. Starting from that point will leave you behind financially. Graduating in a recession has a near career long impact on salary. Starting your first corporate job without a degree in a recession can be even more of a drag on long term career earnings. It's not right and it can be fixed but not with an attitude of entitlement or bitterness. Use your medical insurance to see a counselor around these issues if necessary. 7. Do not use information that many would consider to have been gained unethically. It would look bad because it is bad. Sorry. Unless he can show that he is part of a pattern of being underpaid because of his gender, race, religion or other reason there is no law that companies must pay people equitably. Companies usually base their offers on the person's previous salary. His was low so they low balled him. They will keep lowballing him until they have to make a decision to pay him more or lose him. This is excellent advice. I agree with those who say that no one is irreplaceable. Also, if your dh feels that he is irreplaceable and that attitude comes across, even in subtle ways, to his colleagues, it might not serve him well. Prepare for future jobs by looking for missing skills and try to remediate. For example, some people are good at everything except public speaking ... or writing a decent report... or dealing with spreadsheets and financial projections... or knowing how to use social media...the list could go on, but most people have a weak area that can be fixed. Many people are simply not that great socially -- they are the ones eating at their desks while everyone else is out having lunch together. That is probably harder to work on than anything else, but it can be a critical component of many jobs. Does you dh understand and fit in with the culture of his company? What is valued there? Whiz kids? Good ole boys? Active in local society? How does dh compare with people who do get advancement? On another note, don't put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak. Look beyond the company. Your dh might want to network professionally in his field through, but outside his place of employment. conferences, writing, etc. If you dh can do something in the community, whether Rotary or coaching sports teams, and so, he could be building up a web of connections. You can do the same. And of course, college is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5of5 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 This is the things I'm havig a hard time understand though- His company assigns everyone from a secretary to the top executive positions a 'level' and base their pay on that. Out of 15 levels, he's an level 11. Within each level theirs a tier, and they give an anual review and communicate what tier theyre in within their level. So theirs below average performance, average, and above average, and they pay is variable within a certain amount based on their review. It never goes down, but more pay equals more performance. So his boss cant figure out why for so long his previous managers did nothing to negotiate a higher salary, because regardless of no degree or not, hes tiered for at least a certain salary... does that make sense? At some companies, there is a separate budget to handle cases where someone needs to be brought up to at least baseline. I forget what HR calls it, but it is a separate thing from standard annual pay raises. If your DH has been below minimum for a while, and his boss & HR knows it and still can’t or won’t do anything about it, then something is wrong. There are a lot of possibilities, though. Nevertheless, I agree with everyone else. The solution is to find a new job no matter how long it takes. Everyone I know who was underpaid only got up to the appropriate level by jumping ship. It seems wasteful and dumb, but that’s the modern bureaucratic large corporation for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 He needs a degree. This is why I say I do not care what my dc study, but they must get a degree in something. I have known too many people who were stuck not able to move up, get a salary commiserate with skills, simply because they did not have a degree. It never seemed to matter if the degree was in a related field or not. Other large corporations probably will not look at him without a degree, no matter what his experience. His current employer probably has salary levels set based on degree. He could get on linkdin. He could build a network including clients whose accounts he works on. Networking is very important, but not having a degree will be a block in your dh's career path forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 My SIL got her degree from Thomas Edison in NJ by correspondence (in the 90s before online schools took off). I think Thomas Edison must be online now too. Her life, her career had hit a complete wall before that. Since then, everything turned around. Suddenly, she could get a job doing the same thing for twice the pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If his pay is below the published baseline for level 11, then his boss and/or HR has not been doing their job. It is time to network and look for another job. I had only worked at MNCs and some have the level system for salaries so I do understand how it works. A 50k raise is not impossible in a large corporation. If his boss really want to pay him more, his boss could have gave him performance bonuses for all the extra work they heap on him. It just sound like lip service to me. As to knowing other people's salaries, it is usually in the company's code of ethics not to divulge any personal information including salary that people happen to know. Your husband saw the salaries and is unhappy about it. Unfortunately it would be unprofessional for him to use that information to bargain and would get him into hotter soup than the person who make the mistake which allows him to see that information. LinkedIn and recruiters help my husband and his ex-colleague land a job before his ex-company gave out the official retrenchment notices to their department. This is not true in most cases. I know this based on my many years in corporate HR, and as a boss myself. It just isn't. His lack of degree likely is not keeping his salary where it is. One you're in the job, your pay should increase in accordance with everyone else's. Companies, generally speaking, simply do not increase salaries by that much for existing employees, even with a raise. The company I work for, for example, will give a MAXIMUM of 10% salary increase, even when going from say a Manager to a Director-level position. To get a huge increase within the same position is nearly unheard of, and that is my experience in basically every company (all Fortune 100) I've ever worked for. The bonus structure may change based on a position change, but not based on current role. I totally agree with you (and everyone else) that the OP's husband needs to contact recruiters and needs a strong LinkedIn profile. These are baseline efforts in finding new employment these days. I'm actually in the interview process right now for a new job and I wasn't even looking. Rather, a recruiter found me on LinkedIn. It's a powerful tool. To the OP....he needs to use the information he saw as a motivator to get out of where he is. Changing jobs is the best way to get a decent salary increase. Also, did I read correctly that they said they could give him a 4% increase now? Why doesn't he take that? I could have misinterpreted the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 This is not true in most cases. I know this based on my many years in corporate HR, and as a boss myself. It just isn't. ..... The company I work for, for example, will give a MAXIMUM of 10% salary increase, even when going from say a Manager to a Director-level position. .......The bonus structure may change based on a position change, but not based on current role. Based on the OP's first post, her husband's position did change to senior account manager during the last 2 years. The companies I worked for did not have the 10% cap for salary adjustments and give generous raises for promotions. Maybe being a workaholic, I chose companies that would reward my workaholic tendencies. Hubby's ex-company did have the 10% cap but he gets that almost every year (except in pay freeze years) so at least his ex-boss was not just saying about being appreciative. Of course every company runs their HR differently. All I am saying is that in large corporations, there are usually mechanisms in place (bonus, stock options, overtime pay) to reward workers if the boss wants to exercise those options. The fact that the OP's husband's boss has been sitting on the pay raise request just seems like a red flag to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I agree with the earlier posters that the best bet in the long fun is finding another job. But some other ideas I haven't seen yet: While I agree that he shouldn't use the salary information he accidentally obtained, he can check out the information on glassdoor.com, which gives salary information that people voluntarily report from their company. This information would still be a little tricky to use, involving language like "my research shows that my compensation is below comparable positions" or something like that, but it's less risky than the alternative. Another option (that I learned from this guy) would be him letting the boss know he wants a raise, and what can he accomplish in the next 3-6 months to earn that raise. Then circle back after that time period has passed and he has accomplished that and more, and follow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The OP seems to have said that this is a major corporation. His local boss will not determine his salary. The HR department can legally differentiate between employees that have a college degree and those who don't and pay them accordingly. As long as he does not have a degree, he will be less valuable to this corporation than those who do. No matter what his age. It doesn't look good on paper to only show a high school diploma. And he is NOT indispensable, no matter what his boss says, or no matter what they are telling him to make him feel good. Nobody is. That's just the cold hard facts of the corporate world. And I would bet a million dollars that his boss would not quit if the OP's husband left. That's nonsense. They're trying to placate him, and string him along. He needs to get out of there. So very true. Dh's company absolutely pays more for the degree, and it is also considered during promotions and pay increases. Granted, the only people in (or in similar) positions that do not have degrees were hired years ago. They would not even be considered today. Everyone was told get the degree by 2015 or you are out. All but one has done so, at the company's expense, and the one who did not will be gone next January. His choice, completely. Hope he's smart enough to start looking now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.