athomeontheprairie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 at what point do braces become solely a cosmetic option? when do you say they are necessary instead of optional? My mil told my bil he absolutely doesn't need braces his teeth touch and he can chew his food. I look at him and see absolutely horrid teeth. Horrid! giving him braces would be an amazing gift. My other bil is an adult and his teeth are not as bad, but still pretty horrible. he recently decided to get braces. I think it will change the way he feels about himself, and more importantly how other people view him on first impressions ( currently, while he is very smart, I think a lot of people dismiss him as a idiot redneck because of the snaggletooth and overbite) all this to say I really struggle with her decision, and her reasoning behind the decision. But, is she right? if he can chew his food is there still a medical reason to get braces our are they purely cosmetic? I have a good relationship with her, and I don't mind mentioning something to her about it. And I think it would be well received, especially if his brother steps up also. But should I? ETA:bil is a young teen, not an adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It can definitely be a self-esteem thing, but often when teeth are misaligned it causes problems with keeping them clean, which can lead to more decay and other issues down the line. In the US, where having braces is pretty normal, I would also think that there might be some job discrimination that goes on for people who do have bad teeth/smiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Should *you*? I don't think so. Should Mr. rjones_22? Yes. I don't think we should dismiss purely cosmetic reasons for braces. Both of my dds had braces, and we took out a small second on our house to pay for them. Every time I see them smile, I pat myself on the back. Last week I spent a couple of days on the set of a TV show and had the opportunity to just observe, well, people's teeth. :D I noticed several who had the same issues that my older had (she was missing her two lateral incisors--the teeth between the front tooth and the eye tooth), whose parents had not given the gift of braces...and I patted myself on the back again. This is my dd. Imagine her smile with two pointy eye teeth sticking out above her other teeth, with a gap between her front teeth. Yeah. The braces were worth every penny. My younger dd had an overbite because there just wasn't room on her jaw for her teeth (two upper, two lower teeth were extracted). I'm mushy all over today when I see her smile....and I pat myself on the back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 They're optional when teeth issues are solely cosmetic and the bite isn't affected. But you can't always (usually?) tell whether or not the bite is affected just by looking. Oldest DS had absolutely beautiful front teeth and smile. Even the orthodontist admitted that "It just doesn't get better than that." But his "jaw teeth" were quite misaligned, and from what the orthodontist said (and I confirmed it with online research) it's not just whether or not the person can chew okay right now -- it can cause bone issues and jaw alignment problems as the person ages. I do agree that people make judgments about other people based on their teeth, and that bad teeth (cosmetically) could affect ones job opportunities. But if the person with the bad teeth is an adult or very close to being an adult, then I think it should be their decision whether or not to have braces if it truly is just a cosmetic issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It doesn't sound like she would take it wrong, so I would definitely at least mention that it's not always obvious what problems might be caused by crooked teeth. And that the consultation generally costs nothing out-of-pocket. Her reasoning isn't quite logical. Yes, it's generally stated that, if your lower and upper teeth don't touch when you bite down, then you need braces. That doesn't mean you automatically don't need braces if they do touch! And he wouldn't necessarily notice other problems, because he is used to the way his teeth feel, the way he chews, and so on. He has nothing to compare it to. Is it a money issue? Braces are quite expensive, but I agree that, medical issues aside, visibly bad teeth are viewed with a strong prejudice (at least in America). it would be a priority for my family, but I can see how it would be basically impossible for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I agree that they should get a consultation. Hobbes' teeth were a bit sticky-outy but nothing too frightening. I didn't know (and he didn't tell me because it was normal to him) that his back teeth met but his bottom front teeth were actually hitting his palate. He needed his bottom jaw brought forward, which has worked very well. I do think that you also need to look at the culture. In my generation, wonky teeth were not unusual in Britain. In my children's generation, middle class parents are tending to go for braces, so the culture is changing. For a counter- example: Husband (American) had no problem doing well in finance in the US with seriously snaggly bottom teeth. He refused to have braces as a child and it doesn't seem to have got in his way. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Generally this is a first world problem. I have known a few cases where braces were necessary way beyond cosmetic reasons--but not many. My son is almost 14, has never had a cavity, has beautiful straight and hard teeth. His dentist says my son hit the teeth and smile jackpot. And yet....he has an overbite. Orthodontist wants him to have braces. I have decided against it. It isn't a noticeable overbite and he isn't having any problems. I have so many jaw problems that I am just hesitant to go messing with his alignment until there is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) . Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Oldest ds had a cross bite (one front incisor came in through the hard palate and was went behind his lower teeth when he bit down. This caused friction and pressure on the lower teeth. They were concerned about damage and tooth loss in his lower jaw. The rest was mostly cosmetic. The other son had a split and a missing tooth. He also had some bite problems. Dd appears to have lovely teeth. But, she has some bite issues so we are considering orthodontics. Gee - 2 kids in college and one in braces! Don't know what we are going to do:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am *absolutely* grateful that my parents got braces for me. Were my teeth functional? Sure. Were they awkward and crooked and did I have an overbite like Mater? ;) Yep. It definitely improved my self-esteem and my willingness to SMILE. I will not think twice about getting braces for my children if (when!) the dentist brings it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Generally this is a first world problem. I have known a few cases where braces were necessary way beyond cosmetic reasons--but not many. My son is almost 14, has never had a cavity, has beautiful straight and hard teeth. His dentist says my son hit the teeth and smile jackpot. And yet....he has an overbite. Orthodontist wants him to have braces. I have decided against it. It isn't a noticeable overbite and he isn't having any problems. I have so many jaw problems that I am just hesitant to go messing with his alignment until there is an issue. This is both my kids. Beautiful teeth and smiles with slight overbites. Never a single cavity in either child. Our dentists (they rotate) go back and forth every time it sees my kids. 2 visits ago younger needed to be assessed for 2 phase. Didn't do that because we hadn't open enrolled for ortho coverage, and were holding over until the new year. Last visit, younger was fine, older suddenly should see an ortho even though at previous visit they said he had a very slight overbite and a different dentist said he would not do ortho if it was his own kid. Given that, it's hard to know what the heck to believe. If my kid had speech, bite, or even was uncomfortable with their smile we'd jump on it. For now, we wait and see. I also think there is not a huge danger of waiting and watching a couple years in these cases. Heck, my dd's violin teacher in her late 40's has braces right now. I have another hearing impaired friend who did them in her late 20's and she needed extensive work, but couldn't do them as a kid because of speech therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Thanks for the replies. No, bil is not an adult, he's a young teen. there are many many years between him and my dh :-) Money is probably an issue, but if they really wanted it they could make it work. And dh and I would be available to help get him to appointments, which is a considerable drive. sometimes the way his family views problems is so vastly different than the way my family approached them, that it's hard for me to see both sides and remain impartial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 My inlaws didn't get braces for my dh or his brother. Both are ashamed of their teeth and never show them. Yet my fil had every new gadget and expensive car. I think that is so icky. I would always get braces for my kids as needed and for cosmetic reasons. In our society (US) whether we like it or agree with it, teeth being straight or not sends class signals. Further people DO also make assumptionsabt education, level, etc, based on basic appearance (clear skin, straight, clean teeth, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 My youngest's need for braces was obvious--front teeth stuck out so much that they could have broken easily in contact sports (and she's a soccer player). As Laura mentioned, bottom teeth touched her palate. She got braces first. Older dd's teeth were a little crooked but dentist didn't refer her when he refered her sister. After another year when her eye teeth wouldn't come down, the crowding issue was more apparent. But I still wondered if it was "just a cosmetic" issue. The consultation with the orthodontist showed there was more going on than was evident to me--the overcrowding could have led to having teeth pulled. But also I got a different perspective on the "just a cosmetic" issue. It turns out that this dd was actually very happy to get braces to get her teeth straightened out. So while it didn't seem like a big deal to me, I think it is a big deal to her. I think that nice straight smile is a confidence booster and I'm happy to be able to give her that gift. It's easy and even a little fun to have braces in middle school. It's not so easy to go back and get your mouth fixed as an adult. And many/most young adults would have great difficulty covering the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Is BIL an adult who can make his own decisions? Then I'd just let it be. If he's still young and trying to find his way in this world, I think it might be worth mentioning to MIL to at least get the free consult. Sometimes bad-looking teeth can indeed cause problems. With my three girls who had braces, it maybe would have caused a problem (physically) at some point down the road according to our ortho doc. But we did it mostly for cosmetic reasons. It sure made a difference! For one of them in particular, I honestly think she would have had a much, much harder time in life if she didn't get braces -- for cosmetic purposes only! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 My oldest dd will have two rounds of braces. She has the first round of braces on now. She had a severe underbite and X-rays showed her teeth were a mess. Some of her adult teeth had no room to come in. Either they would come out sideways through the gums or not come out at all which would be a problem. She was chewing fine but nothing lined up right. If teeth don't line up correctly, they can wear away by rubbing each other or chip and eventually fall out all together. My oldest ds has a gap between two teeth. Everything lines up nicely and for him it would be purely cosmetic. He doesn't care so we are not having to spend over $4000 to correct it. For what it's worth, teeth in general are not considered medically necessary by Medicare. My mom used to work for an oral surgeon. Medicare pays to have teeth extracted but not replaced (bridges, false teeth, etc.). You don't need teeth to live. :thumbdown: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It's not so easy to go back and get your mouth fixed as an adult. And many/most young adults would have great difficulty covering the cost. That totally depends on the national culture. In Venezuela, I've never seen anyone have braces until they were a young adult (usually with their first steady job). It's not a kid thing. Most of the people I know who had braces as an adult didn't need them for more than a year and didn't have staining or decay because they were old enough to take care of the braces carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If it's about how people look, how people feel, and the visual impressions of others : that's the definition of cosmetic surgery. If it's about the ability to eat, or the presence of pain, disease, probability if damage etc -- then it's a medical nessesity. It's just that our culture disapproves of most cosmetic surgeries, but has somehow decided that teeth (really the entire face) are categorically different. Weird, but we're used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 That totally depends on the national culture. In Venezuela, I've never seen anyone have braces until they were a young adult (usually with their first steady job). It's not a kid thing. Most of the people I know who had braces as an adult didn't need them for more than a year and didn't have staining or decay because they were old enough to take care of the braces carefully. I wonder how the cost compares? In the states, $4,000 to $5,000 seems very common (full braces but no unusual problems). Young adults are generally either in college or working an entry level job where that amount could easily be a fourth of their salary. It's also the national culture that braces are very common and, these days, done earlier rather than later. So, while I wouldn't say it's unusual for someone to be 16 and still in braces, it would be quite unusual to be 16 with crooked teeth and not being treated. A young adult, even more so. I'm sure this can vary by region, but I don't live in a high socio-economic area at all, and it's the norm for here for affluent, middle-class, and working class - all but the lowest of incomes, and honestly, I don't see an abundance of noticeably crooked teeth in any group! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If it's about how people look, how people feel, and the visual impressions of others : that's the definition of cosmetic surgery. If it's about the ability to eat, or the presence of pain, disease, probability if damage etc -- then it's a medical nessesity. It's just that our culture disapproves of most cosmetic surgeries, but has somehow decided that teeth (really the entire face) are categorically different. Weird, but we're used to it. Yes, but the 'insurance' definition of what is necessary hasn't caught up to the medical definition. Most truly noticeable orthodontic issues will affect one or more of those things. Edited to add that a lot has been learned about how dental health affects overall health. You are right, though: I'm not a fan of cosmetic surgery and would certainly never obtain it for my kids, but I would get them cosmetic orthodontics in a heartbeat (if easily noticeable, not if the ruler says they are 2 mm off of a perfect smile). Maybe it's because orthodontics have almost no risk, and there is usually at least a mild medical justification? Yeah, I'm going with that :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It's also because the face is closely tired with "identity" and is used as a means of communication. Therefore having a (socially defined) 'unsightly' face, mouth or teeth would be legitimately at least a little bit different from having other body parts that are 'unsightly'. (Other face-related cosmetic surgeries that are not frowned on would include prosthetic eyes and the removal of facial birthmarks.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I got my braces at 30. I had a little bit of overlap in the front. As a kid it totally didn't bother me and my parents let me decide if I wanted braces. I chose not to get them. As an adult in law school I started realizing how much others (especially a jury) judges a woman attorney by her appearance. At that point I decided to get braces. My dh's insurances covered most of the cost. I'm glad I did it when I did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elinnea Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 My youger ds definitely needed braces. One of his front teeth grew in fused to an extra tooth so he had this gigantic front tooth. In addition he had an overbite, crowding, crookedness etc. There was not a doubt that he would get braces. On the other hand, older ds didn't have many obvious problems. His teeth looked relatively straight but our ortho did say that some of his adult molars teeth would eventually shove the other teeth out of alignment. So we also opted to get older ds braces even though it seems more cosmetic at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I don't think cosmetic braces are a bad thing. I think they are a reality of class. If you are middle class or aspiring to the middle class, then you had better have decent teeth. I don't mean perfect teeth, but you need to have a professional smile if you want to work in a professional setting. We evaluate people in part by their appearance, and one thing we evaluate is their smile and their teeth. I am not saying it is right or that I agree with it, but it seems to be reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 My top teeth completely overlap and cover up my bottom teeth (but no "buck teeth"), and I have one tooth on the bottom that overlaps another slightly (and you don't see it when I smile). I am certain I would have been put in braces if I lived in a more economically prosperously part of the world (and remember my dentist mentioning braces and my overbite when I was young). I get compliments on my smile every time I go to the dentist. I used to have clicks and discomfort in my bite, but after I started seeing the chiropractor, it all went away. Our current dentist has some screening he does for bite/jaw issues, and I apparently have a perfect bite as far as it applies to mechanics, tooth wear, etc. I can't imagine getting braces for teeth like mine. They would have been both expensive and irritating. I am fortunate that I have small teeth (they run on both sides of the family)--I'm sure the results would have been different if I had large teeth with the same size mouth or the same overbite. I'm probably the closest case to "cosmetic reasons only" that a person could get, and I don't feel like I lost out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I've known for a few years (confirmed by 3 dentists) that my dd will need braces around 12-13 because she has a very thick muscle (frenulum) that goes between her front teeth and forces them apart by a fair bit, which will likely also cause crowding issues once all her teeth are in. She'll need surgery to cut part of the muscle out before the braces are put on. My eldest son just started at a new dentist last week and he said to me in passing he's like to set up an ortho appointment for him as he has bite issues and needs braces??!!!?? 2 past dentists have never mentioned this, but I will be seeking the opinion of our old dentist (we left because his office is 4 hrs away in my hometown, which was just too far to keep driving!). I think braces are so popular these days, so many seem to get them for minor cosmetic reasons. We don't have medical benefits, if both kids get them that's about $16,000-20,000! That's a down payment on a freakin house!!!! I do think braces for severe or bad cosmetic issues are fine, I would for my children if at all possible, but I'm hearing of dentists recommending braces for kids and adults with. Very minor issues that are perfectly comfortable with their smile. I do know a girl whose parents refused to get her braces for very crooked teeth because it was technically cosmetic, as a result she never smiles with her lips parted, even as an adult, and it's affected how people perceive her, because she comes off as being either snobby or shy- she's neither. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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