Bad 4-H experience

[Once]

I'm just here to grieve a little. Please pass me by if you don't want to listen to my whine.

 

Dd participated in 4-H fairs (county and state) this year for the first time. She worked very hard on a crosstich sampler and I am very proud of her. She was 8 at the start of the year and 9 when she submitted her sampler and it took her the whole year to complete. It is not perfect....she's eight and had a bad teacher :tongue_smilie:.

 

We just got the state fair ribbon/comments back for the extention office. WOW! It was bordering on cruel and I'm not sure how to handle it. I pulled it out and started looking at it with dd looking over my shoulder. I put it away as soon as I could but I think she saw it. The comments were needs much improvement on Appearance, Construction *and* Design. The written comments were that she was suppose to frame it and that her stitches were nice. Which is funny since the stitches were the one thing as her mother that I thought she could improve on. There was this really sad feeling in me for her. I wanted this to be the beginning of encoragement toward picking up and improving on a skill which could provide beauty and accomplishment. (I'm not saying that right....sorry)

It has turned out to be me hiding the sheet of paper with the comments so she is not hurt.

 

I understand that 4-H is about competition and working hard but this was not what I expected. I really thought that they would try to encourage an 8/9 year old to keep trying and learning to do better! I'm starting to doubt my ability to see her work and effort objectively.

 

But then I keep screaming in my head....SHE"S NINE!!!! Have a heart would ya! :boxing_smiley:

 

OK. Now I will stop being momma bear.

Sorry.

[Remudamom]

Sympathies for you and your dd. I avoid 4H at all costs.

[Once]

So this is not an uncommon experience?!! I was hoping that they read her age wrong or something and that they really did not mean to cut her up so much.

 

What does the judge get from doing that?

[Kelli in TN]

Sympathies for you and your dd. I avoid 4H at all costs.

 

Wow. That's a harsh statement. 4H varies greatly from state to state.

[Kelli in TN]

I'm just here to grieve a little. Please pass me by if you don't want to listen to my whine.

 

Dd participated in 4-H fairs (county and state) this year for the first time. She worked very hard on a crosstich sampler and I am very proud of her. She was 8 at the start of the year and 9 when she submitted her sampler and it took her the whole year to complete. It is not perfect....she's eight and had a bad teacher :tongue_smilie:.

 

We just got the state fair ribbon/comments back for the extention office. WOW! It was bordering on cruel and I'm not sure how to handle it. I pulled it out and started looking at it with dd looking over my shoulder. I put it away as soon as I could but I think she saw it. The comments were needs much improvement on Appearance, Construction *and* Design. The written comments were that she was suppose to frame it and that her stitches were nice. Which is funny since the stitches were the one thing as her mother that I thought she could improve on. There was this really sad feeling in me for her. I wanted this to be the beginning of encoragement toward picking up and improving on a skill which could provide beauty and accomplishment. (I'm not saying that right....sorry)

It has turned out to be me hiding the sheet of paper with the comments so she is not hurt.

 

I understand that 4-H is about competition and working hard but this was not what I expected. I really thought that they would try to encourage an 8/9 year old to keep trying and learning to do better! I'm starting to doubt my ability to see her work and effort objectively.

 

But then I keep screaming in my head....SHE"S NINE!!!! Have a heart would ya! :boxing_smiley:

 

OK. Now I will stop being momma bear.

Sorry.

 

Honestly the comments you alluded to do not sound that bad. Perhaps there is more?

 

My kids have received some judge critiques that were hard to swallow. I always appreciated the honesty, though. I assumed that the judges meant it to be constructive. We used the critiques to show us where there needed to be improvement. Competition can be tough on the emotions but there is much to be learned from it.

[ChrisN in NY]

But one thing I've learned over the years is that, in NY anyway, 4H judging at the state level is totally different than at the county level.

 

Our county fair evaluators choose the projects that represent our county at the state fair. They are to be "the best of the best". Often in our county, unique or uncommon items, if well done, are also chosen. Parents and kids don't get to decide if that they want to submit this or that -- though we CAN decline to submit an item that was chosen by our evaluators.

 

Judging at the county level takes age and experience into consideration. The evaluators talk to the kids about their projects. At the state level, I don't think age and experience are taken into consideration nearly as much. The projects are judged much more critically, and there really is an expected minimum standard (of quality, of thoroughness, of a minimum degree of difficulty) at that level.

 

For example, the beginner sewing projects that are displayed (most with blue ribbons) at the 4H club booths are our county fair are not sent to state. Those kids have to work to improve their sewing skills to make an item that meets qualifications (level of difficulty) for state fair.

 

My dds have had projects chosen for state fair. The judges are pickier, more thorough, often more critical -- that's how the "competition" is at the state fair level. What they received a blue ribbon at county with lots of "excellents" and not one "needs to improve" remark will receive a red at state with one or more comments about improvements.

 

As I consider it, I think one of the reasons for this is that the state fair judges are more experienced in their field that many of the county evaluators. A local person who seldom or never sees a paper quilling project (an area my dds submit projects in) will be wowed by almost anything. A state fair evaluator with many years experience will notice the inconsistencies, the spots of dried glue, and so on. So the blue ribbon county fair, this is a super project award becomes a red ribbon you need to work on this, this, and this project.

 

2nd dd had a project chosen for state fair again this year. She was actually finishing the project, a crocheted bag, as we were DRIVING in the van TO PREFAIR JUDGING! While her workmanship is decent, it isn't outstanding. I think it was picked because it's a very unique style, at least for something crocheted. Our state fair isn't till later this month, so we'll see.

 

I don't know if this helps any.

 

I'm thinking that whoever chose your dd's sampler for state fair wasn't paying close enough attention or wasn't experienced enough to know what was required.

[Kathy in MD]

But one thing I've learned over the years is that, in NY anyway, 4H judging at the state level is totally different than at the county level.

 

Our county fair evaluators choose the projects that represent our county at the state fair. They are to be "the best of the best". Often in our county, unique or uncommon items, if well done, are also chosen. Parents and kids don't get to decide if that they want to submit this or that -- though we CAN decline to submit an item that was chosen by our evaluators.

 

Judging at the county level takes age and experience into consideration. The evaluators talk to the kids about their projects. At the state level, I don't think age and experience are taken into consideration nearly as much. The projects are judged much more critically, and there really is an expected minimum standard (of quality, of thoroughness, of a minimum degree of difficulty) at that level.

 

For example, the beginner sewing projects that are displayed (most with blue ribbons) at the 4H club booths are our county fair are not sent to state. Those kids have to work to improve their sewing skills to make an item that meets qualifications (level of difficulty) for state fair.

 

My dds have had projects chosen for state fair. The judges are pickier, more thorough, often more critical -- that's how the "competition" is at the state fair level. What they received a blue ribbon at county with lots of "excellents" and not one "needs to improve" remark will receive a red at state with one or more comments about improvements.

 

As I consider it, I think one of the reasons for this is that the state fair judges are more experienced in their field that many of the county evaluators. A local person who seldom or never sees a paper quilling project (an area my dds submit projects in) will be wowed by almost anything. A state fair evaluator with many years experience will notice the inconsistencies, the spots of dried glue, and so on. So the blue ribbon county fair, this is a super project award becomes a red ribbon you need to work on this, this, and this project.

 

2nd dd had a project chosen for state fair again this year. She was actually finishing the project, a crocheted bag, as we were DRIVING in the van TO PREFAIR JUDGING! While her workmanship is decent, it isn't outstanding. I think it was picked because it's a very unique style, at least for something crocheted. Our state fair isn't till later this month, so we'll see.

 

I don't know if this helps any.

 

I'm thinking that whoever chose your dd's sampler for state fair wasn't paying close enough attention or wasn't experienced enough to know what was required.

 

I agree. My experience, and that of my extensive family, was the same in IN. State fair judging is harder. However I think the harder judging at the state level is also because the judges are judging the champion of the champions. You're competing at a different level, and the judging reflects that.

 

But I've found 4-H to be a great learning experience. I tried many things I never would have on my own, I worked to improve good skills, I learned to lose and win gracefully, and that different judges judge differently.

 

It's still a bummer. Get mad for your dd's sake now and let it go tomorrow.

[Once]

Thank you for your gentle and thoughtful responses. But I still disagree.

 

If the competion is going to be judged so critically they should have warned her. She was asked to make the decision *before* she was judged at county level. If they want it to be like an adult comption at state level *they* should make the decisions about who goes not her. Asking an entusiastic innocent child, after praising her work up and down, to make a choice about going to state is setting her up for hurt.

 

I'm wondering if my philosopy in life lines up with 4-H at all. GRRRRR.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is what competition is. Some people (children included) are motivated by competition of this sort. But it sounds like that is not what you want for your daughter. And that's ok. But I would counsel you to perhaps teach your dd the same skills but have her share her work with trusted adults who will give her the kind of feedback that you think is more appropriate for her age.

[Once]

Yes, I think that younger children thrive better under critcism that is paced to their skills level and mixed with positive messages that are genuine.

 

I wish I had a camera to take a picture. For a nine year old she really did a nice job. The books said for younger kids to pick a simple pattern which is what she did. The sample was in pastels...which was carefully selected by her. She submitted it as an other art project. I encouraged her to not frame it until after since I was under the understanding that she was being judged on the cross stitch not the framing. Well she got docked for not having it framed! What! The poster industry proves that you can make anything look good if you frame it right.

 

I have to go to bed. I am clearly tired. I sent an e-mail off to our 4-H leader and asked a few questions and apologized for any snark. Maybe I'll hear from her, maybe I won't.

[snickelfritz]

that at OUR state fair.....it's not a 4-H lead deal any more. 4-H'ers participate. But, so do FFA'ers. Kids from a private school that I taught at submitted projects while not in 4-H or FFA. So, the judges may have been completely independent of 4-H.

 

I do think that the local people should have done a better job selecting projects for state and informing you of what the competition was like. But, your experience is kind of just the way it is. With animals at the state level(the only thing I ever attempted), you could do a ton of preparation and never even make it in the ring to see the judge. They did a pre-selection that might mean you were finished in a minute or two and your chance was over.

[TraceyS/FL]

You got further than i did..... we quit when the leader wouldn't inform us of changes in the schedule. Don't yell at my child for being late and missing it all - when well, YOU were the one that said 2pm, so she's here, and you changed it to 12 and used word of mouth not the phone. We were new in town and didn't know anyone, and the one person we did know wasn't going. OH, and no, we can't show up for _______, on a weekend with 1 days notice. I'm pretty sure you set it up WEEKS ago, so tell me then. Please.

 

Needless to say, really, it wasn't a good match and she made my blood pressure WAYYYY too high.

 

I'm sorry your DD was "set up" in this way. Makes me sad :(

[Remudamom]

Wow. That's a harsh statement. 4H varies greatly from state to state.

 

Well yeah, it is harsh, but I live in only one state! Thus, I avoid it.

[lwilliams1922]

I live in upstate NY.

 

We did 4h entires with dd 12 for the first time this year.

 

I was there most of the day that the judging was going on. I watched a lot of children present their projects and read a lot of judges comments.

 

 

I was actually pleased that all of the comments were positive and encouraging. The kids were given exellent and good ribbons. Some entries were clearly better than others but it seemed like the judges did very well at finding positives to build up the children.

 

my dd is VERY sensitive. Part of the reason I was there is to see how they interacted with and responded to the kids and their entires.

 

dd won the award for best overall communications entry for her poetry and was selected to enter them at the state level.

 

 

Now I am even more concerned at the level of judging. I don't expect them to give false praise and I know everyone cant win. I'm just here to support dd who happens to be sensitive by nature.

[Once]

I don't expect them to give false praise and I know everyone cant win. I'm just here to support dd who happens to be sensitive by nature.

 

 

This was how I feel. A child is a child and that needs to be acknowledged when giving feed back.

 

I really hope you have a better experience with your dd.

[snickelfritz]

I had many many judges over the years and there are lots of them who do a good job of judging fairly (placing people in the right order), while still being kind. And there are also those who are inconsistent and cranky.

 

And you may have to decide if your dd should compete with her projects and at what leve or let her decide, after explaining how hard they can judge.

 

With my oldest dd, who is sensitive AND competitive, it will be hard to find a balance.

[Kathy in MD]

Now I am even more concerned at the level of judging. I don't expect them to give false praise and I know everyone cant win. I'm just here to support dd who happens to be sensitive by nature.

 

Don't be "concerned", because often parents communicate that worry to their kids. Just make sure she keeps up her practice, and try to incorporate a couple of comments from the local judging if possible.

 

Your most important roll is stated in your last sentence, "I'm just here to support dd". Just to be selected for the state level is a great compliment to her skills. This will be part of a great life learning experience for her. Sometimes she'll be estatic, sometimes she'll be crushed. And she'll need you to listen to her and help her deal with both the positive and the negative.

[JFSinIL]

Could you post a photo of her project here? I am sure we can provide lots of encouraging, positive feedback!:001_smile:

[Kathy in MD]

Yes, I think that younger children thrive better under critcism that is paced to their skills level and mixed with positive messages that are genuine.

 

I wish I had a camera to take a picture. For a nine year old she really did a nice job. The books said for younger kids to pick a simple pattern which is what she did. The sample was in pastels...which was carefully selected by her. She submitted it as an other art project. I encouraged her to not frame it until after since I was under the understanding that she was being judged on the cross stitch not the framing. Well she got docked for not having it framed! What! The poster industry proves that you can make anything look good if you frame it right.

 

I have to go to bed. I am clearly tired. I sent an e-mail off to our 4-H leader and asked a few questions and apologized for any snark. Maybe I'll hear from her, maybe I won't.

 

 

I agree that a mixture of praise and criticism are important, but you mentioned in your first post that the critique had both elements. But if you're *like me*, sometimes the praise portion is too easily forgotten.

 

As far as the framing comment, I think if you read the entry requirements closely for either the art work or needlework entries, you'll find that the projects are supposed to be framed or matted if they are a wall hanging. I've never seen any similar projects in any state or county fairs I've been to that wasn't. And in the fairs either my ds or I've competed in, I've seen the rules require just that. It's too bad the local judges didn't mention the advisability of framing it before going to state fair. There's two reasons for framing or matting:

 

1) Matting or framing is part of the final artistic expression. Different mats and frames can totally change the impact of a piece of art. Needlework is judged for it's artistic impact as well as it's technical competency.

 

2) Matting or framing also helps the judge see the work and protects the piece of art. Needlework not stretched out may show minor puckers that would disappear when properly stretched. It's also easier for the judge to handle and exam the individual stitches. Drawings or paintings on thin paper would tear easily during judging or exhibition. And the edges of unframed needlework might fray if they aren't otherwise protected.

 

I hope this helps you understand the state fair judge's comments better.

 

But as a different poster said, some children like competition. It may be that your family isn't the type that does well with it. Conversely you may choose to stay at the local level only until your dd is older.

 

I hope you're feeling better about the judging now that you've had a good night's sleep. I think sometimes the comments and judging are harder on the parents than the children.

((()))

[Trivium Academy]

Well yeah, it is harsh, but I live in only one state! Thus, I avoid it.

 

I'm sorry, this just cracked me up. :lol: I don't think it's harsh for Remudamom to say she avoids it. We plan on doing 4-H but probably only at the county level, I wouldn't send my child's work to State level unless I felt, as the the parent, the work deserved to be judged at the State level.

 

Even if the county wanted to send a beginner's project to State level, I wouldn't, esp. given the young age. I plan on having my dd8 participate in 4-H when she reaches the age but will be involved in the decision making about circumstances that may harm her at all times, including overnight stays anywhere without parental supervision. (Something a friend warned me about concerning State competitions, I don't have first hand experience.)

 

So you learn from the experience and keep trucking. I wouldn't give this up, just don't send projects to State level competition unless the workmanship, quality, creativity is there no matter what the County says.

[angela in ohio]

Was it in a children's division, by her age, or in a regular division with adults, too? If it was for her age group, I would think "needs much improvement" would be a bit much. If it is with all ages, I would expect a 9 yo to get that mark, though.

 

The comments, like others have said, were a mixture of negative and positive, and the only negative was about the presentation rules. I think the compliment on her stitches was nice. Were there other negative comments?

 

Did you have a copy of the entry requirements (about the framing)? If not, that would be a communication problem with your group leader.

 

I was in 4-H all my childhood, and I only have great memories, even though there were many times I either lost or had areas noted for improvement. Your dd should be fine, if you present it in a good light (she is only 9 - of course she is not an expert at cross-stitch, this will help her improve, she can use the comments to help her for next year, etc.) I think this is a huge opportunity you have to decide how she will handle these situations later in life.

[H.S. Burrow]

But one thing I've learned over the years is that, in NY anyway, 4H judging at the state level is totally different than at the county level.

 

Our county fair evaluators choose the projects that represent our county at the state fair. They are to be "the best of the best". Often in our county, unique or uncommon items, if well done, are also chosen. Parents and kids don't get to decide if that they want to submit this or that -- though we CAN decline to submit an item that was chosen by our evaluators.

 

Judging at the county level takes age and experience into consideration. The evaluators talk to the kids about their projects. At the state level, I don't think age and experience are taken into consideration nearly as much. The projects are judged much more critically, and there really is an expected minimum standard (of quality, of thoroughness, of a minimum degree of difficulty) at that level.

 

For example, the beginner sewing projects that are displayed (most with blue ribbons) at the 4H club booths are our county fair are not sent to state. Those kids have to work to improve their sewing skills to make an item that meets qualifications (level of difficulty) for state fair.

 

My dds have had projects chosen for state fair. The judges are pickier, more thorough, often more critical -- that's how the "competition" is at the state fair level. What they received a blue ribbon at county with lots of "excellents" and not one "needs to improve" remark will receive a red at state with one or more comments about improvements.

 

As I consider it, I think one of the reasons for this is that the state fair judges are more experienced in their field that many of the county evaluators. A local person who seldom or never sees a paper quilling project (an area my dds submit projects in) will be wowed by almost anything. A state fair evaluator with many years experience will notice the inconsistencies, the spots of dried glue, and so on. So the blue ribbon county fair, this is a super project award becomes a red ribbon you need to work on this, this, and this project.

 

2nd dd had a project chosen for state fair again this year. She was actually finishing the project, a crocheted bag, as we were DRIVING in the van TO PREFAIR JUDGING! While her workmanship is decent, it isn't outstanding. I think it was picked because it's a very unique style, at least for something crocheted. Our state fair isn't till later this month, so we'll see.

 

I don't know if this helps any.

 

I'm thinking that whoever chose your dd's sampler for state fair wasn't paying close enough attention or wasn't experienced enough to know what was required.

 

:iagree: As the wife of and daughter in law of former County Agents, it *truly* sounds like someone inexperienced sent your DD's work to the state level and she wasn't ready for state competition. I know that things have changed since DH left the extension service & FIL retired, but if she was 8 (most 8 yos are in 2nd grade here) when she started the project, it probably should not have been submitted. The rule here was 8 and in 3rd grade or 9 years of age and even homeschool families have to abide by the public school birthdate requirements - meaning that projects that were started *before* she was eligible for enrollment in 4-H could not have been submitted to either the county or state fair.

 

Over the past year I'm sure she had much improvement in her skills. This would have been taken into consideration at the county level. But it is also possible that she was the only entrant in that division on the county level which would mean she received a blue ribbon no matter what. Some counties also give blue ribbons to ALL of the 9 yos projects - to encourage them.

 

I would probably discuss the comments with her and explain the differences between County competitions and State competitions and tell her that her project was being judged with projects from girls older than she was. Also remind her that she improved as she worked on this over the year...I feel sure that you can pick out the areas of the sampler from when she started and when she finished...show this to her. To the state judges, that is inconsistancy - not growth. Explain this so she understands, but I wouldn't hide their comments.

[sweetbaby]

Who were these judges and how are they selected? I think that's a little harsh criticism for that age.

[Colleen]

Honestly the comments you alluded to do not sound that bad. Perhaps there is more?

 

I don't see the feedback as harsh. It needs improvement ~ which stands to reason for a child that age. (And perhaps, as someone else mentioned, it wasn't yet time to submit a project for judging at the state level?) It was apparently not framed though it should have been, so that was noted. It was also noted that her stitches were nice, which is encouraging. Sounds reasonable to me.

[Sahamamama]

This was how I feel. A child is a child.

 

Yes, a child is a child...

 

BUT... a competition is a competition.

 

It is what it says it is.

 

com·pe·ti·tion [kom-pi-tish-uhn] –noun

 

1.the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.

The competition between the two teams was bitter.

 

2.a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage

Both girls entered the competition, but only Meredith won.

 

3.the rivalry offered by a competitor

The small merchant gets powerful competition from the chain stores.

[Kelli in TN]

 

I don't see the feedback as harsh. It needs improvement ~ which stands to reason for a child that age. (And perhaps, as someone else mentioned, it wasn't yet time to submit a project for judging at the state level?) It was apparently not framed though it should have been, so that was noted. It was also noted that her stitches were nice, which is encouraging. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

 

I thought of something else along these lines. We have been involved with 4H at local, regional and state levels for 10 or 11 years. The times that my kids lost a competition (and there have been MANY more losses than wins over the years) but received little or no feedback were the most frustrating to us. We learned to see the value of the judges' comments simply because it is frustrating to try to improve if you don't understand what needs improvement.

[ChrisN in NY]

If the competion is going to be judged so critically they should have warned her. She was asked to make the decision *before* she was judged at county level. If they want it to be like an adult comption at state level *they* should make the decisions about who goes not her. Asking an entusiastic innocent child, after praising her work up and down, to make a choice about going to state is setting her up for hurt.

 

I agree. They should have told you what the standards are, and better yet should be choosing the state fair entries themselves.

[Kelli in TN]

This issue of sending entries to state competition when it is unmerited reminds me of a story.

 

We have a county competition every year, a talent show. You can sing, dance, play a musical instrument, do a one-act play, etc. There is not much actual talent, but it is fun and it gets the kids to get up in front of people in a safe environment.

 

One year my daughter played the flute and won the competition. It was great.

 

Except.

 

The 4H Agent said "Now you are qualified to go to the Mid-South Fair and compete in youth talent there."

 

Nobody warned us. And so we sent in the registration and off we went. We got there and it was apparent immediately that my little 6th grade girlie with 2 years of flute lessons behind her, in her skirt and blouse made by her own two hands, was in way, way, way over her head.

 

The Mid-South Fair Youth Talent Competition is for really advanced kids. It includes all ages so she was going to be playing her flute, without accompanienment, against 12th graders for whom piano was to be their college major.

 

Then her flute got bumped and one key did not play. We borrowed a bobby pin and I sort of kind of fixed it. Sarah was shivering, every inch of her was shivering from fear. I looked at her and said "You are in over your head. Your flute is broken. Nobody will think any less of you if you walk away right now."

 

She said no. We had come to Memphis and she was going to do what she came to do.

 

And she did. And it was not good . Not good at all.

 

When she came off stage I was standing back there waiting for her.

 

I grabbed her up in a hug and I said, "For the rest of my life the sight of you standing alone on that stage before those judges will be my picture of courage."

 

She walked out of there with her head held high.

 

But we never went back and we warned others who won at county level what the Mid South Fair Talent Competition was really like.

[PrairieAir]

4-H judging varies widely from judge to judge. This isn't a 4-H sucks kinda thing or a question of what area you live in. I think many judges try to be encouraging in their comments and find good things to point out along with the suggestions for improvement. It does sound as though they tried to leave a compliment, but perhaps it could have been phrased better. We've had good judging experiences and bad judging experiences in both 4-H and Scouts.

 

I wouldn't hide the comments from your daughter. Show it to her and point out the good comment about her stitching. Let her see the comment about framing and say, "Well, I guess we didn't realize that was a requirement, but now we know for next time." If you have a good attitude about it and show her how to take criticism and use it for constructive purposes (even if the criticism wasn't particularly constructive), then that's what she will take away from this. Let her know how proud of her you are. Get a nice frame and find a good spot to display her work so she will know just how proud you are and that you aren't just saying it to make her feel better. Then take her out to pick out her next project.

 

At least they didn't say she didn't do the work herself. We had a really bad experience with a jewelry box dd submitted as a Girl Scout entry. She did all the work on her own with dh just telling her what to do at each step and demonstrating on something else. It was by far the best item in the category, but the judges did not give it a ribbon at all and said they didn't believe a 10yo could have done it. It was very frustrating for dd because she knew she was being accused of cheating. On the other hand, it was a backwards kind of compliment to her workmanship that since she had really done all the work herself. We tried to take what good we could from it, but as her parents we were totally pissed. If they had just hopped over to the 4-H building, they would have seen some even more impressive woodworking entries from kids the same age. Oh well. It really is hard in situations like this to model the best attitude and response for your children when you just want to rip someone's head off!:cursing:

[newbie]

Sympathies for you and your dd. I avoid 4H at all costs.

 

I agreel I havent found a 4 H I like yet.

 

I think that just a ribbon should be handed out, no comments.

 

Especially at that age.

 

Jet

[Barb_]

Man, Kelli you tell such a good story. I have tears in my eyes imagining your daughter up there and you standing in the back alternately bursting with pride and quaking in fear for her.

 

Barb

 

This issue of sending entries to state competition when it is unmerited reminds me of a story.

 

We have a county competition every year, a talent show. You can sing, dance, play a musical instrument, do a one-act play, etc. There is not much actual talent, but it is fun and it gets the kids to get up in front of people in a safe environment.

 

One year my daughter played the flute and won the competition. It was great.

 

Except.

 

The 4H Agent said "Now you are qualified to go to the Mid-South Fair and compete in youth talent there."

 

Nobody warned us. And so we sent in the registration and off we went. We got there and it was apparent immediately that my little 6th grade girlie with 2 years of flute lessons behind her, in her skirt and blouse made by her own two hands, was in way, way, way over her head.

 

The Mid-South Fair Youth Talent Competition is for really advanced kids. It includes all ages so she was going to be playing her flute, without accompanienment, against 12th graders for whom piano was to be their college major.

 

Then her flute got bumped and one key did not play. We borrowed a bobby pin and I sort of kind of fixed it. Sarah was shivering, every inch of her was shivering from fear. I looked at her and said "You are in over your head. Your flute is broken. Nobody will think any less of you if you walk away right now."

 

She said no. We had come to Memphis and she was going to do what she came to do.

 

And she did. And it was not good . Not good at all.

 

When she came off stage I was standing back there waiting for her.

 

I grabbed her up in a hug and I said, "For the rest of my life the sight of you standing alone on that stage before those judges will be my picture of courage."

 

She walked out of there with her head held high.

 

But we never went back and we warned others who won at county level what the Mid South Fair Talent Competition was really like.

[Sparkle]

This issue of sending entries to state competition when it is unmerited reminds me of a story.

 

We have a county competition every year, a talent show. You can sing, dance, play a musical instrument, do a one-act play, etc. There is not much actual talent, but it is fun and it gets the kids to get up in front of people in a safe environment.

 

One year my daughter played the flute and won the competition. It was great.

 

Except.

 

The 4H Agent said "Now you are qualified to go to the Mid-South Fair and compete in youth talent there."

 

Nobody warned us. And so we sent in the registration and off we went. We got there and it was apparent immediately that my little 6th grade girlie with 2 years of flute lessons behind her, in her skirt and blouse made by her own two hands, was in way, way, way over her head.

 

The Mid-South Fair Youth Talent Competition is for really advanced kids. It includes all ages so she was going to be playing her flute, without accompanienment, against 12th graders for whom piano was to be their college major.

 

Then her flute got bumped and one key did not play. We borrowed a bobby pin and I sort of kind of fixed it. Sarah was shivering, every inch of her was shivering from fear. I looked at her and said "You are in over your head. Your flute is broken. Nobody will think any less of you if you walk away right now."

 

She said no. We had come to Memphis and she was going to do what she came to do.

 

And she did. And it was not good . Not good at all.

 

When she came off stage I was standing back there waiting for her.

 

I grabbed her up in a hug and I said, "For the rest of my life the sight of you standing alone on that stage before those judges will be my picture of courage."

 

She walked out of there with her head held high.

 

But we never went back and we warned others who won at county level what the Mid South Fair Talent Competition was really like.

 

 

This is a really good story and a great example of what to learn from 4-H.

 

We were new to 4-H last year and didn't really know what to expect. For Demonstration Day, the members had the opportunity to prepare a speech or some kind of demo to the club. Well, at the last minute I made my boys enter and give talks. They both did OK considering that they didn't spend a lot of prep time, but they did get a lot of feedback that they needed improvement. Overall, it was a good experience, and I was very proud of them for even attempting it. Especially because out of 100+ kids in the club, maybe only 18 or so actually even entered. I give a lot of credit to the kids who attempt things like this, even though they may fail or not get the feedback they want. It's good experience and will help them in the long run if they persevere. It's not easy, but I think you should commend your dd for entering and encourage her to keep trying. :grouphug:

[astrid]

I agreel I havent found a 4 H I like yet.

 

I think that just a ribbon should be handed out, no comments.

 

Especially at that age.

 

Jet

 

 

But 4-H is all about learning and growing in skills, be they dairy showmanship, counted cross-stitch or pie baking. Without the comments, how is any learning achieved? How does the child know in which areas he/she excels, and which areas need work?

 

I disagree--- I think comments are the most important part of the 4-H experience. Competition at fairs is how 4-H showcases the kids' growth and talent. I think competition is a good thing, personally.

 

Astrid (a very happy 4-H mom)

[Amy in NH]

That is precisely the reason that here in NH 4-Hers can't go to the state level unless they are at least 12 years old. That is a NH 4-H age 12, which means they turn have to have turned 12 by Jan 1st of the 4-H year.

 

Although perhaps they could have been worded better (which is an individual judge issue), it doesn't sound like the comments were that bad. We'd much rather have comments like those than a red or even (gasp!) white ribbon with no comments. It's horrible to be marked down when they don't tell you how to improve. Honestly, though, we usually anticipate the judges comments, and they are usually spot on. Doing a self-critique before the 4-H judging teaches the kids how to think critically about their own work, and to see their strengths as well. Goal-setting and results-evaluating "project pages" are very helpful in this regard, and here in NH they are "supposed" to be completed before the fair.

[Jennifer3141]

We're going to start attending 4-H meetings this fall because a friend needs help and I planned on starting the kids as soon as they are old enough. Thanks for this thread so I know what to look for. :)

 

Jen

[Jean in Newcastle]

14 years old zombies