Girl Scouts vs. Frontier Girls?

[Tohru]

Any opinions or experience with either?

 

I have 2 daughters - One is too young to join anything, the other would be just starting out. Ideally I'd prefer a group that is more family orientated and would allow both girls to participate in activities together (at least when my youngest gets older.)

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Several years ago, DD started in a Brownie Troop one town over, because our town troop was like "homeschool?  uhhhhh....we'll call you back."

 

She stayed with that troop part way through Juniors and then bailed, because the pace was way too slow.  She's been an Independent (formerly called a "Juliette") ever since and it's the best thing.  As a 7th grade Cadette, she's getting into more leadership training, and is part of a group fundraising for a Pax n Paris trip next year.

 

What's nice is that, even as an independent, as DD grows, she's seeing many of the same girls in the more advanced classes and council-level groups, and the council-level leaders all know who she is.

 

So yeah, you can do Girl Scouts with the same wide variation and freedom with which you HS.

[NicAnn]

I feel frontier is more family friendly, and encourages girls to do more. They offer badges of all sorts, from fashion to hunting. I feel Girl Scouts is a little more focused on cookie sales and on the girls being...girly.

 

Frontier has a big focus on patriotism, which I'm not too into.

[City Mouse]

In Girl Scouts, the "family friendly" thing is going to really depend on the individual troop. In more populated areas, it is common for troops to be girls of a single grade level, and siblings join their own troop.

In lower population areas, troops are often made up up many grade levels simply because that is the only way to have enough girls.

[hillfarm]

IME, girl scouts in my area depend largely on the mindset of local leadership. I have seen some troops that are very wilderness oriented while others in the same county are very "girly", with primary emphasis on makeup and fashion. So I think you would have to get to know a bit about GS in your area to be able to make a solid comparison.

[KarenNC]

Doing things together in GS will depend on the age spread of your girls, the particular actvity, and will vary by year. Most levels include 2 grades (k-1, 2-3, 4-5, 6-8, 9-10, 11-12). Often, council activities will be open to more than one level with, say, Brownies and Juniors together (so grades 2-5) or Cadettes and up (so 6-12). Other events may not be available to the younger one based on age restrictions at a given time, particularly when physical activity like camping and outdoor sports things are involved due to GS regs. You may be able to find a multi-level troop, but that can be particularly difficult to run at the break between Daisy (k-1) and Brownie or Junior and Cadettes. I agree that it is the troop leaders who are most important in which direction the troop activities will go, especially in the early years.

[KarenNC]

The best way in any org to have what you need is to start your own troop. We did this as an offshoot of our homeschool group when a couple of us were unsatisfied with the options at the brownie level. We met during the day, had a wider age spread than typical, and chose to focus on the areas in which we were interested and leave the rest or modify where we could to make it work for us. That said, we have reached a point where we have enough girls and the age spread is too wide, so the Brownies will be splitting into their own troop soon, and we will go on with the older girls.

[MollyAnn]

Frontier Girls was started in 2007 as a direct response to the new Girl Scout Program. It is based on what Girl Scouts used to be.

 

While I like the older Girl Scout program more than the new program, Girl Scouts offers many things Frontier Girls and other groups can't: having a council in town, council and service unit events, a national fund raiser, national recognition, networking with other leaders and parents of other scouts, and being part of a very rich history that literally goes back 101 years.

 

We are in our 9th year of Girl Scouts and I am DD's leader. Our troop is what I call "Vintage Girl Scouts"--we work out of the old books and have a focus on the outdoor skills and work on building leadership skills instead of talking about them.

DD has had many opportunities because she is in Girl Scouts. She has gone to camp, taken a Program Aid course then worked as an aid in a GS day camp. This year her cookie profits will be banked so she can save for her Girl Scout Destination to London/Paris. She has earned her Bronze Award and is close to finishing her Silver Award. Once she earns her Gold Award she will be eligible for scholarships and be able to join the military at a higher rank.

 

That is all for older girls though. When she was a Daisy and Brownie we did a lot of crafts and nature walks.

 

Our troop is made up entirely of homeschooled girls. We have levels Daisy-Cadettes and when a few girls bridge this year we will add Seniors. The older girls love working with the younger girls and the younger girls love being able to call the older girls friends. We do have siblings at our meetings, the boys line the wall with all their electronics, the littles play with toys, and our 3 and 4 year old girls we call 'Girl Sprouts' and they have their own little activity.

 

The best way to make sure you get what you are looking for is to be the leader. With Girl Scouts you will be trained by someone at council and have access to monthly leader meetings for networking and support.

 

Cookies are what Girl Scouts are most recognized for. That is because they are very popular, Thin Mints are the #2 best selling cookie in the country and they are only available for 6 weeks of the year. Since cookies are the most contact people have with Girl Scouts and don't see all the community service or events we attend, I guess I can see why they would think we are all about cookies. I admit to being a little loopy while writing this because I was up early so I could schedule our cookie booths for this year's upcoming sale, but we are so much more than cookies!

[Guest kgal]

I have been a leader for both Girl Scouts and Frontier Girls- and Frontier Girls far outweighs Girl Scouts in my experience. I attempted to run a multi-level troop in GS (brownies and Daisies) it was almost impossible to accomplish, from a logistical standpoint. The Girl Scout program varies so drastically between age levels that it is very hard to plan activities as a whole troop. Girl Scouting isn't designed to blend the age levels.

 

Frontier Girls has over 1200 badges, and the badges are available at all age levels. The requirements needed to earn the badge increase with age, but otherwise- the girls all work on badges together. The older girls help the younger, etc. Frontier Girls is designed to operate as a community! My Frontier Girl troop currently has ages 4 (Penguin) - 11 (Otter & Dolphin) and we just completed our Taekwondo badge, together, as a group, even the 4 year old  

 

The Frontier Girl badge program is huge- I would challenge you to find an area of interest that doesn't have a badge. Yes, there are many awesome Girl Scout leaders that provide "old school" ways- but the girls don't earn anything for it, except a participation patch. There are higher award levels that are equivalent to the GS silver and gold award in difficulty & dedication needed to earn it. Frontier Girls also requires a lot more of their members in the way of volunteering and community service. FG focuses on well-rounded young women. They have a life skills badge at each level that covers an array of skills girls of a certain age should possess. My daughter's age group has everything from "how to make an introduction" to basic home repair (change light bulb) and cooking.

 

What I love most of all, is that my troop & other Frontier Girls troops, are not part of a money making business. It is $25 to register 1 girl, and $50 for 2+. That amount also purchases your membership pin and access to the online handbook and badge book. There are no handbooks/ to purchase!! All the information you need is always current and always online. The uniform is the same for all levels! The red vest. You add your level ribbons as you progress/ but that’s it! Theoretically, a child could wear the same vest for years if they don't grow too much! Minimal sewing! The badges are actually buttons/pins and they only cost $.99.

 

And, no required fundraising. None. Zero. Zilch. Any fundraising our troop does- we keep 100% profit. The Girl Scouts peddle these cookies- and have (imo) lowered their standards to have daisy- level girls selling! (This was not allowable 10 years ago) The girls bust their tails, and keep very little of the profit- Girl Scout camps nationwide are closing/selling/ going bankrupt. The pension program for Girl Scout corporate office is constantly in trouble. My concern is the vast mismanagement of funds that our daughters, work so hard for. There are only 30 badges available for a 9 year old girl in Girl Scouts & 1/3 of them revolve around cookie sales. (Entrepreneur, money management, cookie sales, etc) That just isn't acceptable.

 

I was a tried and true Girl Scout growing up. I loved the program. But it just isn't what it used to be. We are really enjoying Frontier Girls- The founder is very active, supportive and accessible! The girls love it- the moms with daughters of different ages love it because it is one meeting for everyone. Our MOMS are now badge earning members with our new "owl" level for adults. It’s awesome for mother/daughter time.

 

Best of luck, regardless of which program works best for your family- enjoy each moment.

 

 

[shawthorne44]

That is sad to hear the camps are closing. Whew!   I did a quick google and discovered that one I loved is still open.  The camps are the reason I am thinking of sticking with Girl Scouts for DD. 

That Admin gets a vast majority of the cookie money annoys me.  When I was a kid, if I sold 400 boxes of cookies the prize was 2 weeks of summer resident camp for free.  I'm told that prize isn't offered anymore for any count. 

[ncmom2dawters]

Another option you might explore is American Heritage Girls.

ahgonline.org

[KungFuPanda]

I think it's worth mentioning that even though only a fraction of the cookie money goes to the troop, ALL of the money stays IN the council. Troops then get a significant discount on camp rentals and activities within their own council. Cookie money stays in your community. The breakdown is roughly 1/4 to the troop, 1/4 to pay to make and ship cookies, and 1/2 to the council for leadership training, properties, equipment, and programs.

 

Back when I led a troop, I could take a group of girls camping for 10-12 dollars per day per girl. This includes food, camp rental, supplies, leaders, first-aiders, craft supplies, equipment rentals (kayaks, archery stuff, etc) and badges/patches at the end. This was not primitive camping, but platform tents/cabins with access to hiking trails, low ropes/obstacle courses, and a commercial kitchen. Cookie money, no matter how it's distributed, pays for that. Ten bucks is the going rate for an hour of babysitting where I live.

[chiguirre]

I want to agree with everyone that GS's councils are a valuable resource. They organize a lot of outdoor opportunities for Cadettes and up and make the camps available to younger troops. They're well worth selling cookies to support.

 

I also think that the fact that you don't have to pay several hundred dollars up front to start a troop is a big advantage of GSA. A group of local hsing parents has tried to launch an AHG group twice and failed both times because they couldn't come up with $300 for the registration (I just followed this on a local yahoo group, so I'm not sure of all the particulars). We didn't need to ask parents for more than the GS membership fee ($12 at the time, it's more now) and snack/craft supplies money when we started which made it much easier.

[poppy]

I believe American Hertiage Girls is a conservative Christian group?

 

I do Girl Scouts, I am not familiar with Frontier Scouts.

For Girl Scouts, my troop is Daisy Scouts (5-6 years old). cookie selling was optional. My daughter sold 4 boxes, more than enough. My kids like songs, games, messy crafts and sports. Not girly. They had to register and buy a uniform and that was it. All books are optional and I didn't make them buy them. They pay $1/week in dues to pay for patches. Being a leader is a time commitment and really confusing at first but it's worth OT-yo have a LOT of freedom to make the troop what you want it to be for your daughter and her friends.

[momma2three]

I'm a Girl Scout leader, and as the others have said, what each troop is really up to the leaders.  I'm in my second year as a Daisy leader, and I'm already planning our Brownie year.  

 

The Journeys are just terrible, I can't say otherwise.  But I have found the Daisy ones to be incredibly easy to tweak, while still sticking to the spirit of what they want the girls to get from it.  Basically each journey requires the development of an interpersonal skill, a service project, and a concrete skill, all based around a single theme.

 

I've already started to explore what we're doing next year, and I don't actually find the badges to be as limiting as many people say.  Yes, there are far fewer of them, but there's still more than a troop could earn and they cover a pretty wide variety of areas.  I also kind of think that the "cookie sales take over everything" is overblown.  In our counsel, there was 1 month of girls selling cookies, and then 1 month of booth selling.  Troops don't have to participate in either (and Daisy troops are discouraged from doing booth sales).  So for something that runs 10 months a year (assuming no July and August meetings), the fundraiser only lasts 1-2 months, and they're really what you make of it... even the older troops that do tons of booth sales only do 1 a weekend for 4 weeks.

 

I like that my daughter can be part of such a huge international organization.  I think that's pretty cool.  She's only in 1st grade, but is really excited to earn her Gold Award already.

[Seeking Squirrels]

DD is in a Frontier Girls troop and we love it so far! A homeschooling mom here started the troop at the beginning of this school year. The girls have worked on cooking, hiking, community service, magnets, our flag, and more. I like that there are so many badges they can earn. It really gives them something to work for and something to see to show what they've done. I also really like all the higher level awards they can work for by doing certain badges or types of badges. Our troop meets for 2 hours every other week. Start up costs were very reasonable. The whole structure of the program allows for multiple ages to work together. Our troop currently has ages 3-13 meeting together. I love that when younger DD turns 3 she can join right in with no new meeting time to have to schedule in.

[Kalmia]

A fourth option is CampfireUSA. And a fifth is 4-H (which definitely is inclusive of all ages and very family oriented). I believe both are non-denominational and open to all people regardless of religious belief.

 

http://www.campfireusa.org/difference.aspx#

 

http://www.4-h.org

 

 

[DawnM]

Our Boyscout troop has a Frontier Girls group that meets at the same time and location so that the girls in the family have something to do.  I don't have girls so I am not fully qualified to comment, but the girls in it seem to really enjoy it.

 

Dawn

[Lisbeth]

GS National HQ gets millions in "royalties" or "licensing fees" from cookie sales. How does that work?

[ktgrok]

Ok, I'm interested...but how conservative is it? The future mothers comment on the website raised a red flag for me. Don't get me wrong, I WANT to raise my daughter to be an excellent mother, and would adore her being a stay at home mom. But...it's often a "code word" for right wing religious conservative....is that the case here? Also we are catholic, is there a statement of faith or just the generic God mentioned in the promise? Is it just Christian, or would Jews/Muslims, etc be welcome?

[Lisbeth]

Google Josh Ackley and his position in Natl GS. Previously he was featured in a video in which a woman is strangled while he grins maliciously. ("Hellevator.") Just another tidbit about GS.

 

The little bizarre facts added up to us ditching GS yrs ago. A few anomolies are expected, but GS has too manyfactors thay go way against our sense of morality and decency. We are now AHG people.

[Library Momma]

I'm a Girl Scout leader, and as the others have said, what each troop is really up to the leaders.  I'm in my second year as a Daisy leader, and I'm already planning our Brownie year.  

 

The Journeys are just terrible, I can't say otherwise.  But I have found the Daisy ones to be incredibly easy to tweak, while still sticking to the spirit of what they want the girls to get from it.  Basically each journey requires the development of an interpersonal skill, a service project, and a concrete skill, all based around a single theme.

 

I've already started to explore what we're doing next year, and I don't actually find the badges to be as limiting as many people say.  Yes, there are far fewer of them, but there's still more than a troop could earn and they cover a pretty wide variety of areas.  I also kind of think that the "cookie sales take over everything" is overblown.  In our counsel, there was 1 month of girls selling cookies, and then 1 month of booth selling.  Troops don't have to participate in either (and Daisy troops are discouraged from doing booth sales).  So for something that runs 10 months a year (assuming no July and August meetings), the fundraiser only lasts 1-2 months, and they're really what you make of it... even the older troops that do tons of booth sales only do 1 a weekend for 4 weeks.

 

I like that my daughter can be part of such a huge international organization.  I think that's pretty cool.  She's only in 1st grade, but is really excited to earn her Gold Award already.

 

This is similar to our GS experience although i don't think the journeys are that terrible. They are in addition to the regular badges to girls work on both.  I am fascinated by the fact that there are places where girls "have" to sell cookies, especially the Daisies.  Our troop didn't start selling until they were Brownies and even then, everyone didn't participate.  My daughter loves GS, especially the summer camp but I have no experience with FG.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Ok, I'm interested...but how conservative is it? The future mothers comment on the website raised a red flag for me. Don't get me wrong, I WANT to raise my daughter to be an excellent mother, and would adore her being a stay at home mom. But...it's often a "code word" for right wing religious conservative....is that the case here? Also we are catholic, is there a statement of faith or just the generic God mentioned in the promise? Is it just Christian, or would Jews/Muslims, etc be welcome?

 

Are you asking about Frontier Girls? I don't find it too conservative at all.  There are badges offered all across the board. Our troop has done their cooking badge, but also one on magnetism. Last week they did Scotish culture. I think it's pretty rounded with what it offers. But it will greatly depend on the specific troop. A leader could focus on just bible/religion and homemaking badges and turn it into a pretty conservative, girls-belong-at-home program. One could also skip the homemaking type badges and do a lot of them from 'knowledge' and 'science and technology' and swing the whole feel the other way. IMO, balance is best, and that's what our troop does.

 

We have a mix in our group. FG does ask that everyone start with a belief in God, but it's not an integral part and it will probably depend on the troop how closely they stick to that. We have a few different religions represented and I'm somewhere around agnostic-atheist. Another mom at our start up meeting said she was atheist though her family is of the local predominant religion.

 

We did not sign any statement of faith, nor would I. The only mention there has been of god is in the promise which the girls recite each meeting.

[Jennifer3141]

Another GS troop leader here. I'm not thrilled withy the journeys but we knock them out in camping weekends - we go again in 2 weeks. AHG and FG are way to conservative for my taste and a lot of our girls are college bound - their parents want their girls to earn the high awards for scholarships and college apps. :)

[MistyMountain]

My daughter is in girl scouts. Her tropp is through a school but they have no problem with homeschool girls joining troops. I know one girl in her troop doesn't go to the school. I think that it really varies but my dd's troop is not about cookies and fashion and makeup. Most meetings are not rugged outdoor meetings they are at the school but they aren't solely on things only girls like. The meetings are more focused on friendship and having fun. They also do some cool things like a first aid class, a women in science and engineering event and a spring camp out in cabins. Our troop might also do a summer camping event. The troop sells cookies but the meetings are not focused on cookies at all and there is no obligation to sell. I think it varies by troop whether girls meet in age based groups or if older girls scouts and brownies meet together.

[ktgrok]

Are you asking about Frontier Girls? I don't find it too conservative at all.  There are badges offered all across the board. Our troop has done their cooking badge, but also one on magnetism. Last week they did Scotish culture. I think it's pretty rounded with what it offers. But it will greatly depend on the specific troop. A leader could focus on just bible/religion and homemaking badges and turn it into a pretty conservative, girls-belong-at-home program. One could also skip the homemaking type badges and do a lot of them from 'knowledge' and 'science and technology' and swing the whole feel the other way. IMO, balance is best, and that's what our troop does.

 

We have a mix in our group. FG does ask that everyone start with a belief in God, but it's not an integral part and it will probably depend on the troop how closely they stick to that. We have a few different religions represented and I'm somewhere around agnostic-atheist. Another mom at our start up meeting said she was atheist though her family is of the local predominant religion.

 

We did not sign any statement of faith, nor would I. The only mention there has been of god is in the promise which the girls recite each meeting.

 

 

Thank you! Exactly what I wanted to know.

[KC in KS]

Let me suggest you consider American Heritage Girls instead of Frontier Girls. Let me just say that there is a striking amount of similarity in the program designs, and there have been lawyers involved in the situation. My personal opinion is that AHG is the safer choice.

 

http://www.ahgonline.org

[itsheresomewhere]

Ok, I'm interested...but how conservative is it? The future mothers comment on the website raised a red flag for me. Don't get me wrong, I WANT to raise my daughter to be an excellent mother, and would adore her being a stay at home mom. But...it's often a "code word" for right wing religious conservative....is that the case here? Also we are catholic, is there a statement of faith or just the generic God mentioned in the promise? Is it just Christian, or would Jews/Muslims, etc be welcome?

 

Have you looked at Little Flowers?  They are a group for Catholics and from what a friend says they are a nice group.  

[CherryBlossomMJ]

We have joined Frontier Girls and it is very affordable and the woman behind it really cares about her purpose. AHG costs way more.

 

Also FYI when the founder of FG set out to leave GS she looked into AHG but they wouldn't let her co-leader join and lead because she is/was Mormon.

 

Frontier Girls is Christian and lets others join as long as they acknowledge and respect this fact.

 

From my research Frontier Girls is more about learning and having fun with traditions than being a money maker. She has kept things very practical and affordable. Also they are the only one where girls can start participating at age 3.

[Tohru]

Let me suggest you consider American Heritage Girls instead of Frontier Girls. Let me just say that there is a striking amount of similarity in the program designs, and there have been lawyers involved in the situation. My personal opinion is that AHG is the safer choice.

 

http://www.ahgonline.org

 

Just curious as to why?  I looked into AHG, but they meet too late in the evening and there is age segregation.  The one time we went, the leader sang this "Welcome" song over and over again, addressing to each girl's name.  Most the girls were cringing or trying to hide when it was their name, but she kept singing.  We left.

 

I'm the OP and we did actually choose Frontier Girls, but signed up for both FG &  GS to test them out.  With the GS Troop - I constantly felt in the way and unwelcome, even though I registered myself as an adult for the troop. Nothing was family friendly, everything was age-specific. 

With the Frontier Girls, we have been welcome and all ages participate at their age level.  All family members are invited to the field trips.  It has been really good for us so far. 

[Guest kacordy]

I just found this thread and thought I would chime in.  Which scouting program you choose depends on what you want out of it.   What works for one family doesn't work for another and there are pros and cons to each.  Girl Scouts is by far the largest and while some councils are having a lot of problem right now (closing camps, not offering local trainings, etc.), others are still fantastic and can offer the girls more in the way of camps, council wide activities, international travel, etc. than smaller programs such as AHG and Frontier Girls.  With Girl Scouts though you sacrifice flexibility, have very limited badges, and are forced to sell cookies if you want to raise money for your troop.  AHG is a fantastic, well rounded program, but it is expensive and is a Christian ministry requiring all volunteers to sign a statement of Christian faith.  Frontier Girls is the cheapest and most flexible, with the most badges, but each troop is independently owned and operated which can cause liability issues unless the troop is run by a local non-profit such as a church, school or veterans group. 

 

The three programs are similar in that they are all scouting style, but other than that, they differ tremendously in regards to their structure, badges, higher awards, etc.  (As for the comment by KC in KS, she needs to read the Frontier Girls programming as it is nothing like American Heritage girls and the only lawyers that have been involved was a single threat over the fact that both programs use red/white/blue for their unifiorms, but then again so does Campfire, so the issue was dropped.)

 

I would also like to correct CherryBlossom, Frontier Girls is not Christian, I am, and I wrote it.  The program itself may be based on Christian principles, but it does not directly promote the Christian religion and is open to girls and volunteers of all faiths.  I originally wrote it for homeschoolers, not a particular religion, though it has now grown far beyond the homeschoool community.  I do not ask anyone what religion they are.  As long as they are comfortable with our promise, which says, "I promise to love God, be loyal to my country, and love my neighbor as myself." they are welcome to join.

 

The last thing I would like to address was the comment about the "code word" mothers.  Yes, I am conservative, but like religion, I don't push my political views on others.  I firmly believe that motherhood is a very important role in our society, but that does not mean I think women should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.  I am a successful business woman with a background in international wine shipping and believe that girls can be anything they wish and should be allowed to do so without predjudice and that includes everything from being the President of the United States to being a stay at home mom.  Our badges are designed to help girls learn about anything that interests them.  They can learn baking, cleaning and budgeting for the home, or study physics, aviation, or astronomy.  They can learn to raise goats, bees, and rabbits, and they and learn about world cultures, travel, and food around the world.  Anything goes and if we don't have a badge for what they want to learn about, we'll write one.

 

It really doesn't matter which scouting program you choose as much of your experience will rely directly on the leader and how the troop is run.  Any of the programs can be good or bad depending on how they are implemented by the leader.  Read through each program, post questions on their Facebook pages and get a feel for which fits your family the best.  If you plan to lead the troop yourself, figure out which fits your style, if not, visit local troops from each program (if they are available) and see who runs theirs the best.

 

In my opinion, the main focus of the three program are:

 

Girl Scouts:  Leadership

AHG:  Christian Ministry

Frontier Girls:  Life skills and knowledge

 

Others might see it differently.

 

[ktgrok]

Thank you so much, you answered a lot of the questions I had personally, and made me much more comfortable about the organization. I do apologize for the "code word" bit, but I didn't want to accidentally be journeying into something that was going to promote that girls should never work, live at home until/if they get married, serve their father's, etc. I think some other organizations have made me gun shy :)

 

OH, and I really respect that your website acknowledges that everyone might not be able to say the promise, so hey, we have a program for you to!