Hypothetical financial conundrum involving large sum of money… what would you do?

[Janie Grace]

Pretend that you are renting a home and have no college savings for your children (oldest is 14) and a very small retirement fund. No emergency fund. You come into $200,000. What do you do?

 

The house you are renting is adequate and your rent is low for your area ($1250 for 4-bedroom home on sizable acreage). You don't love it and you feel ready for a place of your own (you want to paint/decorate, you want to feel "settled"). You plan to be in your current city indefinitely. 

 

Do you buy a home or keep renting and invest all of the money?

[gingersmom]

I would probably put a sizable down  payment on a house (so mortgage payment is doable), put a chunk away to help out with college and put the rest away for a rainy day (plus a trip to Europe  :001_smile: )

[Wilma]

Buy a house.

[5of5]

I agree with Gingersmom assuming that you wouldn't need most of the money for the house in order to make the mortgage payment reasonable.

[Swimtaxi234]

I would divide the money into 3:

 

1) college fund divided for all of your children (since you mentioned "oldest", I thought there would be others)

 

2) housing fund

 

3) savings

 

***4) if you belong to a Church, I would divide the money into 4 sections and give one to the Church since the money was an unexpected blessing

[ksr5377]

The kids college fund would be the least of my concerns if I didn't have much in retirement or own my home. 

[Amira]

This is pretty much our situation, except we're not staying anywhere indefinitely.  If we were, we'd buy a house with a large enough down payment to have a reasonable mortgage. Another big chunk of money would go into retirement, then general savings and emergency planning, and maybe a little for college.  While it would be nice to help with college, I think my children would appreciate not having to take care of us when we're old.

[FaithManor]

If this were our decision, we would:

 

1. Put away $100,000 in the college savings fund. If it earned 5%, that would mean there would be another $5000.00 in a year...that is about how much we would need to contribute to ds's first year at his college of choice if he won a half ride in scholarships, took out one $3500.00 loan, and had a campus job. If we had to dip into the principal, it wouldn't be for much so there would be money growing there for the other two boys.

 

2. Put about $50,000.00 as a down payment on a house.

 

3. Put the other $50,000.00 in retirement accounts, or at least $40,000.00 and put $10,000.00 in a more quickly accessible emergency fund. We would consider using some of the interest from both the retirement and emergency fund to go to Europe for a couple of weeks because we have always wanted to do so.

 

But, this plan would be altered if we had other debt. Credit card debt, signature loans, etc. are such high rates that it is a net loss to invest the funds at lower interest rates while paying some ridiculous rate on the card.

 

For us though, we made our last house payment last month, so the real deal is that we wouldn't need the down payment money listed above and we would put most of it in retirement AND go to Europe.

 

That said, I see no sudden windfall of such a sum of money in our future. I hope you do and that you find a way to have a little bit of fun or get a nice house, or whatever works best for your family!

 

Faith

[Pawz4me]

How old are you?  Your DH?

What's the real estate market like in your area?  Are homes currently undervalued?  Overvalued? How readily available are good buys on foreclosures?

What kind of job do you (or your DH have) in terms of stability?  Future employment outlook?

Do you have any current debt?

How many kids do you have?  Ages?  What type of college experience do you envision for them?

[Scarlett]

Pretend that you are renting a home and have no college savings for your children (oldest is 14) and a very small retirement fund. No emergency fund. You come into $200,000. What do you do?

 

The house you are renting is adequate and your rent is low for your area ($1250 for 4-bedroom home on sizable acreage). You don't love it and you feel ready for a place of your own (you want to paint/decorate, you want to feel "settled"). You plan to be in your current city indefinitely.

 

Do you buy a home or keep renting and invest all of the money?

We all want to help our kids but if you buy a home ( a modest home, good neighborhood, no mortgage) you will be in a position to help your kids through college. Maybe not by handing over 20k a year for tuition but helping with gas/ food / books etc.

 

Your kids can make it through college on their own. I think it is more important to take care of yourself.

[bettyandbob]

1. emergency fund

2. purchase home, down payment should be enough that financing puts the mortgage at the same or less than current rent. If you do a fixed mortgage your monthly payment will not change. A fixed mortgage may or may not be the right mortgage for you, but a stable monthly payment is great for budgeting purposes.

3. Start a retirement plan and redo budget to include a small payment to retirement plan.

 

I will note that dh and I funded dc's educations and made that priority over retirement. At the time our financial situation was different and it didn't look like retirement would be an issue, but it has become one.

 

The reality in your situation is that since your child is 14, you will not be in a position to really save for college. So, I'd make your own retirement a priority over saving for college. I would start immediately getting the 14 yo involved in figuring out how to fund college. Look at how many assets a family may have before no aid is available and where your family falls. Look at what fields interest dc and look at what scholarships are available in those fields. Look at whether merit aid may be something the dc can shoot for.

 

ETA: I live in a very high COL area. If home values are such that you can purchase something that is a decent investment (not blighted neighborhood, expected to increase in value) for less than 200K, I'd go for that first. Then, I'd put aside the amount of my previous rent money every month. First, it would go to emergency fund. Then, it would be invested in retirement plan.

[Scarlett]

If this were our decision, we would:

 

1. Put away $100,000 in the college savings fund. If it earned 5%, that would mean there would be another $5000.00 in a year...that is about how much we would need to contribute to ds's first year at his college of choice if he won a half ride in scholarships, took out one $3500.00 loan, and had a campus job. If we had to dip into the principal, it wouldn't be for much so there would be money growing there for the other two boys.

 

2. Put about $50,000.00 as a down payment on a house.

 

3. Put the other $50,000.00 in retirement accounts, or at least $40,000.00 and put $10,000.00 in a more quickly accessible emergency fund. We would consider using some of the interest from both the retirement and emergency fund to go to Europe for a couple of weeks because we have always wanted to do so.

 

But, this plan would be altered if we had other debt. Credit card debt, signature loans, etc. are such high rates that it is a net loss to invest the funds at lower interest rates while paying some ridiculous rate on the card.

 

For us though, we made our last house payment last month, so the real deal is that we wouldn't need the down payment money listed above and we would put most of it in retirement AND go to Europe.

 

That said, I see no sudden windfall of such a sum of money in our future. I hope you do and that you find a way to have a little bit of fun or get a nice house, or whatever works best for your family!

 

Faith

I disagree......I would not be using half of a windfall like that for an unknown like future education needs. I would want a house to live in before I even considered financing my kids education.

[Pawz4me]

How old are you?  Your DH?

What's the real estate market like in your area?  Are homes currently undervalued?  Overvalued? How readily available are good buys on foreclosures?

What kind of job do you (or your DH have) in terms of stability?  Future employment outlook?

Do you have any current debt?

How many kids do you have?  Ages?  What type of college experience do you envision for them?

 

Also, what do property taxes run in your area?  Homeowner's insurance costs?

[Um_2_4]

I would definitely look for a house, after setting aside at least 3 mos emergency funds (preferably 6). Just remember to include ALL housing costs with that plan: taxes, insurance, etc. in addition to the mortgage payment. Some people get quite surprised when the taxes increase their monthly payment each year or insurance goes up due to claims, etc.

 

College funds, it depends. Can you save ALL your children would need by the time they are ready for college? If you had no savings would your kids qualify for financial aid (grants, not loans)?  Sometimes just a "bit" of savings for college, bumps the kids into a range that they no longer qualify for aid, but maybe loans. But the parents can't help pay for college, so the kids might have been better off without that "bit" in college savings, did that make sense?? I need more coffee this am.

 

I think first I might look at retirement savings before college funds as you can not borrow money for retirement and ,check, but I don't think 401ks are counted when calculating financial aid for college???

[flyingiguana]

Buy a house.  Put a sizable chunk in a retirement fund.  (Not sure how much this could be -- might be limited by year)

 

Don't put anything in the kids' names.  It will ALL count against them for financial aid.

 

Whether to put all the money into the house or just make the downpayment will depend on college plans.  If you think, by income, you'll qualify for lots of aid, put it all in the house.  Then it won't count.  (Stuff in retirement won't count either)

 

However, I suspect you'd have to be making very little money for that to make much difference.  My impression is that income counts more than assets in that game, but I could be wrong.

 

It used to be it made a lot of sense to put it all in the house because interest rates were fairly high on mortgages.  Since they've come down recently, this might not be the best idea.

[beaners]

If this were our decision, we would:

 

1. Put away $100,000 in the college savings fund. If it earned 5%, that would mean there would be another $5000.00 in a year...that is about how much we would need to contribute to ds's first year at his college of choice if he won a half ride in scholarships, took out one $3500.00 loan, and had a campus job. If we had to dip into the principal, it wouldn't be for much so there would be money growing there for the other two boys.

 

 

If you could find me a savings option with no potential loss of principal earning 5%, I'd kiss you.  

 

 

I would sit on the money for at least a year before doing anything, other than perhaps paying off any debt.

[Supertechmom]

I would save out enough to put 20% down on a reasonable house and put at least 6 months in an emergency fund.  The rest would fund our retirement.  I would greatly encourage the kiddos to work hard, learn a lot, get great test scores and let them figure out college.   I paid for mine  3 separate times and am none the worse for it.  The upside is my parents and my hubby's were then able to take care of themselves in retirement and have not been a financial burden.  To me it seems one way or the other. Either you have more than enough income to pay college and provide for your own retirement or you can do only one well.  Pick the one that will be the best help to your kids in the future.  I know we would be in a mess (parents are much older and near end of life span already) if we had to fund them and manage small children. it's hard enough to deal with the physical aspect of caring for the elderly.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

House.  Real estate goes up, and ownership dramatically affects your borrowing power (even counting the ups and downs).

[zoobie]

1. 6 month emergency fund.

2. House down payment (20% or enough to get mortgage)

3. Retirement--but I'd get a financial adviser to tell me what and how, especially to avoid any tax implications, etc.

 

Retirement always before college. I think most financial advisers will tell you that! 

[FaithManor]

 

I disagree......I would not be using half of a windfall like that for an unknown like future education needs. I would want a house to live in before I even considered financing my kids education.

 

 

That's fine. She asked what I would do and everyone else's situation is different. Frankly, in my area of Michigan, the real estate market is a bad place right now to put money. It's going to be another decade before this area recovers and property values keep dropping, not going up. You lose money as soon as you sign on the dotted line. But, that said, it is important for the kids to know that mom and dad's shelter is provided and they won't have to take them in the day they retire from working for pay or have major health issues. I can see where in other parts of the country, real estate investment is probably pretty smart. Around here, well, it's a very, very bad idea unless you can tie up the money for thirty years an not think about it. You can't sell a house for more than pennies right now, and while you can buy low, an awful lot of it is in very bad shape and will require many, many thousands to fix...thousands that won't be recouped through appreciation for like I said, a decade or more.

 

It's totally moot for us anyway because we own our house, no mortgage. We do have three boys headed to college and grad school and a retirement that is fairly well funded and thinking about it from that perspective is why I thought, down payment on something, put away for college. Each family has a different situation.

 

Faith

[Lolly]

1. Pay the taxes on that windfall. Windfalls tend to be taxed VERY heavily.

 

2. Pay off all debt.

 

3. 6 mths cushion/emergency fund

 

4. House--very modest. Houses here are still on the buyer's end of a good deal. Extremely negotiable on prices. But, market is making a bit of a comeback=makes a good investment. Just realize all the expenses you will be having that you do not have as a renter. Don't let yourself be blindsided.

 

5. Retirement.

 

6. Some for kid's college. However, you need to look realistically at what type of aid you will qualify for. Money in the bank in kids' names is a very bad idea. Money in your name they figure you should put almost all to college. So, you need some money saved for college, but not so much that it is huge. This is a really tricky area.

[Scarlett]

  

 

That's fine. She asked what I would do and everyone else's situation is different. Frankly, in my area of Michigan, the real estate market is a bad place right now to put money. It's going to be another decade before this area recovers and property values keep dropping, not going up. You lose money as soon as you sign on the dotted line. But, that said, it is important for the kids to know that mom and dad's shelter is provided and they won't have to take them in the day they retire from working for pay or have major health issues. I can see where in other parts of the country, real estate investment is probably pretty smart. Around here, well, it's a very, very bad idea unless you can tie up the money for thirty years an not think about it. You can't sell a house for more than pennies right now, and while you can buy low, an awful lot of it is in very bad shape and will require many, many thousands to fix...thousands that won't be recouped through appreciation for like I said, a decade or more.

 

It's totally moot for us anyway because we own our house, no mortgage. We do have three boys headed to college and grad school and a retirement that is fairly well funded and thinking about it from that perspective is why I thought, down payment on something, put away for college. Each family has a different situation.

 

Faith

True, we each have our opinion.....but she did say they have no plans to leave the area.

[Scarlett]

I would not buy a house in that situation--we've found home ownership expensive, and with kids in their early teens already, it might not be prudent to invest in a big enough house for what might be less than a decade.

 

I'd probably give 2.5-5% to charity, spend 5-10% (maybe on travel for the family and/or a newer vehicle so that the old one might be used to commute to college, or ask the landlord if we can have the house painted if we pay for it), put 20% in savings and the rest in retirement. If there is then an issue with paying for college, we can make a determination about what we can afford to pull from there.

Please explain this line of reasoning to me. She is spending 1150 a month on rent. Are you saying owning a home would cost more than that?

[livetoread]

Home ownership is really expensive. If you want comparable expenses, your house will be much smaller.

 

While I love owning our own house so I can nest, we almost certainly will not recoup the difference we have spent compared to renting a similar house, even after 30 years (and we put down a large down payment and have a smallish 15 year mortgage.) I honestly don't think home ownership is all it's cracked up to be financially.

 

Just property taxes can equal 3-4 months rent every year. Then you have mortgage interest which can equal your principle over the life of your loan, so you end up paying twice over for your house, and upkeep which can be major depending on lots of things. Except for certain areas, homes are not appreciating nearly fast enough to keep up with all that outlay. Not to mention, the 5-6% in value your real estate agent will take when you sell.

 

Having said that, I would still probably buy if you are going to be there awhile like you said, but I'd very carefully figure my true expenses. I'd try and put most of it towards retirement and college, splitting between the two.

[beaners]

Please explain this line of reasoning to me. She is spending 1150 a month on rent. Are you saying owning a home would cost more than that?

 

She did say the rent was low for the area, so it's possible she would pay more when you factor in upkeep and repairs that are currently the homeowner's responsibility.

[brehon]

1. Pay the taxes on that windfall. Windfalls tend to be taxed VERY heavily.

 

2. Pay off all debt.

 

3. 6 mths cushion/emergency fund

 

4. House--very modest. Houses here are still on the buyer's end of a good deal. Extremely negotiable on prices. But, market is making a bit of a comeback=makes a good investment. Just realize all the expenses you will be having that you do not have as a renter. Don't let yourself be blindsided.

 

5. Retirement.

 

6. Some for kid's college. However, you need to look realistically at what type of aid you will qualify for. Money in the bank in kids' names is a very bad idea. Money in your name they figure you should put almost all to college. So, you need some money saved for college, but not so much that it is huge. This is a really tricky area.

This is really good advice. The only thing I'd add is to find and hire a good CFP or investment person to help the hypothetical you navigate the new financial waters.

 

Anyone who receives a windfall of that magnitude *must* prepare for taxes (federal & state, if your state has a state income tax). Pay off all outstanding debt, fund a generous emergency fund, modest house, retirement fund. Kids' higher education would come way down the list for me.

[Scarlett]

She did say the rent was low for the area, so it's possible she would pay more when you factor in upkeep and repairs that are currently the homeowner's responsibility.

I guess she would just have to tell us that but I can't imagine upkeep being more 1150 a month.

[beaners]

I guess she would just have to tell us that but I can't imagine upkeep being more 1150 a month.

 

I thought the other poster was considering the cost you'd pay for the house too in the figure.  Even if you pay cash for the house, you have to take into account what that cost would have been over time compared to rent.  

[Scarlett]

Home ownership is really expensive. If you want comparable expenses, your house will be much smaller.

 

While I love owning our own house so I can nest, we almost certainly will not recoup the difference we have spent compared to renting a similar house, even after 30 years (and we put down a large down payment and have a smallish 15 year mortgage.) I honestly don't think home ownership is all it's cracked up to be financially.

 

Just property taxes can equal 3-4 months rent every year. Then you have mortgage interest which can equal your principle over the life of your loan, so you end up paying twice over for your house, and upkeep which can be major depending on lots of things. Except for certain areas, homes are not appreciating nearly fast enough to keep up with all that outlay. Not to mention, the 5-6% in value your real estate agent will take when you sell.

 

Having said that, I would still probably buy if you are going to be there awhile like you said, but I'd very carefully figure my true expenses. I'd try and put most of it towards retirement and college, splitting between the two.

If the rent is only 1150, even factoring in that it is a good price for the area, surely she could find a decent house, a modest house that she could have paid off completely. Now if she co es back and says that $150k will only buy a shack in that area then I might change my mind. But having a home paid for is a wonderful feeling of security ( and true, nothing is secure in this world). When dh was sick last year I don't know what we would have done if we had a mortgage.

[Scarlett]

I thought the other poster was considering the cost you'd pay for the house too in the figure. Even if you pay cash for the house, you have to take into account what that cost would have been over time compared to rent.

I am sorry....I must be dense, but I don't understand this. ?

[Janie Grace]

Okay, some more info. The $200K is what we'll recoup when we sell a home we own in another part of the state. We put a large inheritance towards the mortgage a while back, and have been renting it out (which pays our mortgage but hasn't yielded gains on top of that).

 

We did talk to a financial planner (just an initial meeting) and it seemed that his take is "don't necessarily buy a house, keep renting since you have a sweet deal." But it is hard for me not to suspect that's partly because he'll make more $ if we make a series of investments with him. Of course the realtor that I've mentioned this to said "buy a house" -- partly because she's hoping she'll be our realtor and get a cut. It's hard for me to navigate who is actually advising from a neutral position and what prevailing wisdom would say.

We pay $1250 in rent. I just looked at a $300,000 house. With a 20% down payment at current rates, our monthly payment would be $1100 or something like that. So, it is doable. But yes, a $300K house would be a step down from what we have in terms of land/location. I feel willing to do that, but I'm not sure the rest of the family would be on board...

 

ETA: It's not an unexpected windfall, so we won't be tithing on it or paying taxes on it. We already did that when we received it.

[Janie Grace]

If the rent is only 1150, even factoring in that it is a good price for the area, surely she could find a decent house, a modest house that she could have paid off completely. Now if she co es back and says that $150k will only buy a shack in that area then I might change my mind. But having a home paid for is a wonderful feeling of security ( and true, nothing is secure in this world). When dh was sick last year I don't know what we would have done if we had a mortgage.

Oh, $150K is definitely not enough to buy a house here. 

[Scarlett]

Oh, $150K is definitely not enough to buy a house here.

Wow. Well, you do have a good price on your rental then! I saw your post above with the numbers on a 300k house. Would expenses beyond the mortgage be high?

[LucyStoner]

It would depend on my age and health and housing prices in my area.

[Janie Grace]

Wow. Well, you do have a good price on your rental then! I saw your post above with the numbers on a 300k house. Would expenses beyond the mortgage be high?

Not sure how much taxes are. I guess upkeep would depend on age/condition of the house.

[Janie Grace]

It would depend on my age and health.

Late 30s, good health. 

[Scarlett]

Okay, some more info. The $200K is what we'll recoup when we sell a home we own in another part of the state. We put a large inheritance towards the mortgage a while back, and have been renting it out (which pays our mortgage but hasn't yielded gains on top of that).

 

We did talk to a financial planner (just an initial meeting) and it seemed that his take is "don't necessarily buy a house, keep renting since you have a sweet deal." But it is hard for me not to suspect that's partly because he'll make more $ if we make a series of investments with him. Of course the realtor that I've mentioned this to said "buy a house" -- partly because she's hoping she'll be our realtor and get a cut. It's hard for me to navigate who is actually advising from a neutral position and what prevailing wisdom would say.

We pay $1250 in rent. I just looked at a $300,000 house. With a 20% down payment at current rates, our monthly payment would be $1100 or something like that. So, it is doable. But yes, a $300K house would be a step down from what we have in terms of land/location. I feel willing to do that, but I'm not sure the rest of the family would be on board...

 

ETA: It's not an unexpected windfall, so we won't be tithing on it or paying taxes on it. We already did that when we received it.

Were you basing that on 15 year?

[beaners]

I am sorry....I must be dense, but I don't understand this. ?

 

It sounded like your post said, "Well, the house is paid off so there's no monthly bill for that.  Repairs alone can't be more than the old rent every month."

 

I was saying that you need to account for the amount you've spent to buy the house when you're deciding if it makes more financial sense to buy or continue renting. Even if you don't have a monthly mortgage now, you might end up having paid more over the long run.

[Janie Grace]

Were you basing that on 15 year?

No, 30. With a 20, it's $1400-ish, on a 15 it was $1600 and change. 

[Scarlett]

No, 30. With a 20, it's $1400-ish, on a 15 it was $1600 and change.

I just calculated 15 year 5% with 50% down and it came up with $1500

[Scarlett]

It sounded like your post said, "Well, the house is paid off so there's no monthly bill for that. Repairs alone can't be more than the old rent every month."

 

I was saying that you need to account for the amount you've spent to buy the house when you're deciding if it makes more financial sense to buy or continue renting. Even if you don't have a monthly mortgage now, you might end up having paid more over the long run.

1250 for 30 years is 450k at which time they own nothing.

[LucyStoner]

I'd probably buy a house if it is important to you to own a house. Personally though a house over time and not riding a bubble usually averages out to gain just a little more than inflation before selling costs. If you lived where that was enough for a house outright, again I would be tempted to buy a house. I wouldn't buy a house though if I wasn't sure that was where we'd be long term and I wouldn't buy a house that I would have a large mortgage on. You can always invest it wisely for a year or two and buy later on.

[prairiewindmomma]

I would put aside 6 months of living expenses into emergency savings and put the rest into retirement. If you are in your late 30s and you have nothing put aside (and presumably aren't able to save now because you havent been), then you need to get a nest egg going in growth funds, period.

 

You have a good deal on rent now. I am worried about you getting into a home and then wondering how to deal with the major expenses that come up....roof, siding, hvac, window replacement, etc. The 3% of the home's value a year for upkeep has proven true for us.

[mytwomonkeys]

Buy a house. Add to our a savings. And put some away for college too. Where I live, I could do all 3! :)

[prairiewindmomma]

I need to add to my above....the only way I'd feel differently is if you'd take a capital gains hit....then I'd buy. I forget what the current tax provisions are for rollover, but I would buy modestly (and I would use a different agent).

[Scarlett]

Scarlett,

 

Home ownership costs more than renting even if you own the house free and clear. For instance, we pay 5,000 in property tax every year. Typically house insurance is more expensive than house insurance. We pay 1,800 a year for insurance. I'm thinking that rental insurance might be a couple hundred a year or so.. Since our house has been paid off, we've replaced the roof and the water heaters. Also with rentals, other people take care of your yard. If you own the house, you have to buy the mower and other things to take care of the house. Those are the kind of things that cost over the mortgage and the things people forget about when all that they look at is the monthly mortgage payment. So many times renting may be more cost efficient.

 

Does that help?

LOL sorry if I gave the impression I don't know about home ownership. I've owned 3 homes in 25 years and 2 husbands. I have my current home paid off.

 

If I was in my late 30s I wouldn't take on a mortgage longer than 15 years.

[mytwomonkeys]

LOL sorry if I gave the impression I don't know about home ownership. I've owned 3 homes in 25 years and 2 husbands. I have my current home paid off.

 

If I was in my late 30s I wouldn't take on a mortgage longer than 15 years.

Yep. I'm 42 and have owned 4 houses. I know all about new roofs, HVAC, privacy fencing, new flooring, windows, faulty water heaters, etc. I would still buy over renting. :)

[beaners]

1250 for 30 years is 450k at which time they own nothing.

 

But they have been living in a house of a certain size for those years.  It sounds like it would cost considerably more to purchase an equivalent home.  *shrug* I was just pointing out that all the costs need to be considered.

[Scarlett]

Yep. I'm 42 and have owned 4 houses. I know all about new roofs, HVAC, privacy fencing, new flooring, windows, faulty water heaters, etc. I would still buy over renting. :)

Me too. But I do have to remember that some parts of the country the housing market is wonky. I would not buy in some places....but I probably would not keep living there either.

 

I would look at houses that I could afford...certainly no more than 20-25% of the take home of main breadwinner. And no longer than 15 years. If I couldn't get a decent pace in safe neighborhood for that and if I had a sweet deal on rent, I might keep renting. I wouldn't prefer it though. I like having my own home.

[Scarlett]

But they have been living in a house of a certain size for those years. It sounds like it would cost considerably more to purchase an equivalent home. *shrug* I was just pointing out that all the costs need to be considered.

But I wouldn't look for an equivalent home. I would look for what I could afford.