I may have found what I'm looking for in a program that truly uses literature to study LA skills.

[Soror]

Well, I just purchased the first level, along w/ the free art book that goes along with it.  The art pages have color copies of the pictures used and coloring pages as well, which I know my dd is just going to love.  I'm planning on starting tomorrow when we start back after our Thanksgiving break here.  I'm very excited to use this as seems to include all the parts that we enjoyed about FLL without all the mind numbing repetition and couples with it the writing work as well.  We did enjoy the writing exercises in WWE but I do really like the idea of doing it alongside reading full books instead of just excerpts.  I had thought about pulling out passages myself but right now that is not realistic.  

 

You ladies that have used the program need to get busy writing some reviews, Kathy has an Amazon store as well and fwiw the previews on Amazon are much better than on Lulu.

[Heathermomster]

I went to Amazon this morning and ordered level three.  I used the coupon code "bookdeal" and received 30% off the book.  I don't know how long the 30% book discount will last.

[Guest Rachel+2]

Hi Kathy, I have sent you an email but as I am in Australia and it is 9.30am in the morning Tuesday I am not sure if this will still be in your time frame of one day for the sale.  Hope so!!

[KathyJo]

Hi Kathy, I have sent you an email but as I am in Australia and it is 9.30am in the morning Tuesday I am not sure if this will still be in your time frame of one day for the sale.  Hope so!!

 

It is. :-) I would have honored it anyway. I responded to your email.

[KathyJo]

Oh, I disagree with your husband. I think you've been lovely to deal with. You helped me a ton in making my selections. :)

 

Thank you. :-) I told him you said so, and blew him a raspberry.

[Guest Rachel+2]

Thanks for your response to my email and I tried to reply but now my email is playing up and won't send emails!!  Could you please send me an email explaining how I pay you through pay pal?  I have a pay pal account but have only ever paid for things through company headers that take you straight to the payment page at paypal.  Thanks in advance.  Rachel

[HejKatt]

Can someone compare this to WWE? I have WWE sitting on my shelf waiting to be used come January, but I am liking the idea of this. They sound very, very similar, only LLTL includes fuller passages???

We use both. DS is in Year 2 of WWE and about half-way of LLTL.  

 

LLTL gives a rich introduction to literature with its book and poetry selection. With LLTL, DS doesn't want me to stop reading when I've done the assigned reading for the lesson and he picks up the book outside schoolwork so he can find out what happens next. It's extended my children's stamina for read-alouds, and we have had lively wonderful discussions about the book being used.

 

WWE gives a solid guide to narration with its guided questions. We use the PDF Workbook so there are passages to practice on between lessons. As a PP said, WWE doesn't introduce grammar, but assumes you have another source, e.g. FLL so it has assignments like "Find a passage with linking verbs and point those out to the student". LLTL does introduce some grammatical concepts but those come later in the book so you wouldn't be able to use them lock-step. 

 

So I think LLTL+WWE makes a fine combination. I would add a grammar supplement if we needed to follow a standard/CC scope and sequence, but even so they work well together - the former gives breadth, the latter to help a student understand deeper. 

[KathyJo]

I wanted to point out that a separate writing program is not actually necessary, though of course some people will want to, particularly if they have a different attitude towards teaching writing than I do. 

 

Here's how LLTL teaches writing. LLTL starts writing very slowly. Level 1 actually begins with the child drawing a picture from the fable, and then telling the instructor about the picture. The second half of Level 1 and Level 2 have standard narrations. These begin with very short Aesop's fables. A parent might prompt a child for "what happened next," but they shouldn't need to do this much because the stories are so short. I follow a more CM approach here, believing that it's better that the child be allowed to tell back the story without a lot of questions and discussion.

 

Starting in Level 4, different types of narrations will be introduced: condensed, amplified, slant, etc. There are also descriptive writing exercises that focus on imitation. I think this is where LLTL is different from most writing instruction. Instead of telling the child how to write a descriptive passage, he imitates one. To me, this is the better way. The upper levels were probably born the day I watched my second son become frustrated with a writing assignment that told him how to write a description instead of showing him a model to imitate. So the instruction is there, it's just different. There are also playing with sentences exercises (re-writing sentences) and beginning literary analysis type questions. These are oral in Level 4, and written in 5 and 6. 

 

In a nut shell, my intention for LLTL is for it to be gentle but thorough. I believe that a little instruction through imitation goes a long way, and that narration, both oral and written, is a valuable tool.

[mom@shiloh]

It's been nice to get out of my kitchen tonight after non-stop feeding people for the last several days and see that this discussion has continued with lots of new information.  I'm thinking this may be what I've been looking for in LA, and solves my dilemma for 3rd and possibly 4th grade.  Thanks.  I am a bit hesitant to jump into a different program though without knowing if I can continue it next year.  No pressure, but any hints as to when the next level will be available?  Ok, so maybe a little pressure....

[Soror]

I went to Amazon this morning and ordered level three.  I used the coupon code "bookdeal" and received 30% off the book.  I don't know how long the 30% book discount will last.

I think from what I read that this is only good for 1 time fwiw.  I ordered another book this weekend and used this deal and when I tried it again today it said it wasn't valid.

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

I went to Amazon this morning and ordered level three.  I used the coupon code "bookdeal" and received 30% off the book.  I don't know how long the 30% book discount will last.

 

Thanks! I just ordered it now with that code.  :001_smile:

[KathyJo]

It's been nice to get out of my kitchen tonight after non-stop feeding people for the last several days and see that this discussion has continued with lots of new information.  I'm thinking this may be what I've been looking for in LA, and solves my dilemma for 3rd and possibly 4th grade.  Thanks.  I am a bit hesitant to jump into a different program though without knowing if I can continue it next year.  No pressure, but any hints as to when the next level will be available?  Ok, so maybe a little pressure....

 

Lord willing, Level 4 will be out next September. I'm actually writing 5 first because we need it, but my focus for publishing will be Level 4. I also need it for next September, so there's an extra prod. :-) 

 

My hope is actually to have both 4 and 5 out next fall, but I'm not sure if I can write AND proof both of them in that amount of time. And the answer keys. :001_rolleyes:  I was so tired of diagramming sentences after finishing Level 3. 

[mom@shiloh]

Thank you.  Just ordered levels 1, 2, and 3.  I will wait patiently for level 4 and 5.

[mathnmusic]

Thank you, Kathy Jo.  I sent you an email, hope it's not too late to get my order in.

 

[lluv]

Awesome find, thank you!  I think my son will love this!  I just found a 30% off code on the web for lulu.com.  I'm using it on the .pdf files! 

 

COUPON:  LULUVIP72398

Expires: Tomorrow, 12/5

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

LULU is having a Sale now... I had to search under Kathy Jo Devore to find these books and these codes both worked!

 

FREESHIP 

HOLIDAY25

 

Enter codes separately and they both work.

http://gifts.lulu.com/   Good through 12/6

 

 

NEWEST code: decktheshelf is on the site now for 30% off!

 

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I ordered  Language Lessons: Level 1 & 2, and Level 3 in print! The codes did work together on LULU

 

 

 I really want the Reader books but am not familiar enough with the method they are based on.

  ** Orton phonogram reading program organized around the stories in The Elson Readers-

 

Is anyone using them that can tell me more? I have 2 ready to go ahead and learn, while 1 dd has struggled with several methods.  Earobics 1 helped her go forward.  

Thanks for any input!

 

I will try to ask the Author tomorrow, 

[justkeepswimming]

Thank you for starting this thread! I just ordered this for one of my kids - it looks perfect!

[mom@shiloh]

Fyi,

 

I ordered levels 1&2 and 3 from Amazon and they arrived yesterday.  I think that we will be happy with the program, however the size of the books was a bit of a surprise.  They aren't  full size books.  Instead of being the typical 8.5 x11 size of a regular workbook, they are 6 x 9" .  Because they are very thick books, I feel that this makes them difficult to use.  The size was probably listed at Amazon, but I didn't check it and just assumed they were going to be larger.  I think that I will send them back and order the pdf version at Lulu instead.  

[Aspasia]

Can anyone compare this to LLATL (Learning Language Arts Through Literature)? I've been interested in something along these lines for for awhile, but a lot of people say LLATL is a little too light. Is LLTL a little more rigorous?

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

Can anyone compare this to LLATL (Learning Language Arts Through Literature)? I've been interested in something along these lines for for awhile, but a lot of people say LLATL is a little too light. Is LLTL a little more rigorous?

 

I got LLTL in the mail yesterday and I'm kind of in love with it. Level 1 doesn't seem too rigorous, but I think that's the intention. I really like how everything is introduced in increments (narration, copywork).

[Aspasia]

I got LLTL in the mail yesterday and I'm kind of in love with it. Level 1 doesn't seem too rigorous, but I think that's the intention. I really like how everything is introduced in increments (narration, copywork).

I'm definitely fine with lower levels being more gentle. I've just been so drawn to LLATL for it's literature approach, but I'm turned off by the number of people who say it is consistently not rigorous enough, at all levels. I guess I'm wondering if people feel like LLTL is sufficiently rigorous when the time for rigor comes ("sufficiently rigorous" is obviously subjective--just looking for opinions).

[lorisuewho]

I'm using level 1 right now with my first grader. It is a very gentle, but efficient program. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have.

Chelli,

Are you using this in conjunction with CAP W&R?

 

I can't figure out what I want to do next year. I'm debating between this, Rod and Staff, WWE, and jumping into CAP W&R. Right now I'm leaning towards holding off on CAP for another year until my boys are in 3rd and 4th and combining them together. Maybe I can combine the boys together in this (LLTL) for next year 2nd/3rd grade.

[Soror]

I'm not Chelli but fwiw IF you use WR I think 3/4th would be a much better choice than 2/3rd. Depending on your child it could very well be better to do them both separately at 3rd or 4th grade.

[lorisuewho]

I'm not Chelli but fwiw IF you use WR I think 3/4th would be a much better choice than 2/3rd. Depending on your child it could very well be better to do them both separately at 3rd or 4th grade.

I appreciate your opinion. I don't think I would do it next year if I combine. I would just do it with the oldest. But perhaps it would be better to wait an extra year and then combine the boys. I'm not convinced combining always saves me time. But in this case it might.

[Chelli]

Chelli,

Are you using this in conjunction with CAP W&R?

 

I can't figure out what I want to do next year. I'm debating between this, Rod and Staff, WWE, and jumping into CAP W&R. Right now I'm leaning towards holding off on CAP for another year until my boys are in 3rd and 4th and combining them together. Maybe I can combine the boys together in this (LLTL) for next year 2nd/3rd grade.

 

No. I'm using LLTL Level 1 with my first grader and I'm using CAP Fable with my 4th grader. She could have started CAP in 3rd grade, but it wasn't out yet. 

 

If you were wanting to keep the boys together then I would use it when they are in 3rd and 4th. It would be a fun curriculum to do in a group or with others.

 

ETA: It would really depend a lot on my child's writing stamina for when I would start them. My dd could have done it last year, but I know other kids have difficulty with writing paragraphs at a time in 3rd grade.

[Girl Power]

Thanks to this thread I started my two youngest in levels 2 and 3 last week. I really feel like it's just what I was looking for, with its combination of literature, copy/work and dictation, and narration. The grammar starts off gentle but bumps up quickly and is nice and meaty. We haven't done formal grammar so it's perfect for us. I also love that it has copia excercises as well.

 

After trying to get by without it, I finally broke down and bought the student workbooks. I was hoping to just cut and past the grammar exercises in a separate document, but that was a pain, and the books are so convenient to have.

 

All this to say, glad I stumbled across this thread!

 

Beck

[mom@shiloh]

You can get 30% off today at Lulu when you use the code "decktheshelf".  

[BatmansWife]

Lord willing, Level 4 will be out next September. I'm actually writing 5 first because we need it, but my focus for publishing will be Level 4. I also need it for next September, so there's an extra prod. :-) 

 

My hope is actually to have both 4 and 5 out next fall, but I'm not sure if I can write AND proof both of them in that amount of time. And the answer keys. :001_rolleyes:  I was so tired of diagramming sentences after finishing Level 3. 

 

My youngest is in 4th now so I figured I missed the boat on this one.  But, if level 5 is available by next fall....that would be awesome!  BTW, I'd be happy to proofread/edit it for you.....that's something I've always wanted to do.  ;)

 

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

LULU is having a Sale now... I had to search under Kathy Jo Devore to find these books and these codes both worked!

 

FREESHIP 

HOLIDAY25

 

Enter codes separately and they both work.

http://gifts.lulu.com/   Good through 12/6

 

 

NEWEST code: decktheshelf is on the site now for 30% off!

DECKTHESHELF IS STILL ON!

[TianXiaXueXiao]

I downloaded book 3 with the 30% off code last week. I'm using it with my fifth grader. Even though the grammar concepts are review, this is working out great as a gentle introduction to a more classical approach to schooling and my daughter is really enjoying the poetry and memory work. We look forward to future grade level publications!

[Meadowlark]

Can anyone tell me how this compares with PLL? I'm considering using it for 2nd grade alongside MFW. Also, if I'm not particularly wanting to teach the 8 parts of speech this early, is this not the program for me? How much of level 2 is the parts of speech? I'm more looking for a language approach....

[KathyJo]

Popping back in...

 

My youngest is in 4th now so I figured I missed the boat on this one.  But, if level 5 is available by next fall....that would be awesome!  BTW, I'd be happy to proofread/edit it for you.....that's something I've always wanted to do.  ;)
 

 

If you're serious about proofing, PM me. We could become really good friends. ;-) 

 

My 4th grader is doing Level 3. It reviews the parts of speech and begins diagramming, so depending on what he already knows, it might still be okay for him.

 

 

Can anyone tell me how this compares with PLL? I'm considering using it for 2nd grade alongside MFW. Also, if I'm not particularly wanting to teach the 8 parts of speech this early, is this not the program for me? How much of level 2 is the parts of speech? I'm more looking for a language approach....

 

I'm not sure how it compares with PLL. Level 1 does not have any grammar, only punctuation and capitalization, and some memory work with days of the week, etc., so you could start there. To use Level 2 without the grammar would mean skipping the actual lessons. You'd be left with the literature reading, the copywork, the narrations, the picture studies, and the poetry and Aesop's fable in each lesson. So, it just depends on what you're wanting.

[KathyJo]

Also, the complaints have been heard.  :blush: Levels 1 & 2 will be separated into two separate print books as soon as I can spend some time on this. The revised version is much bigger than the original, which is all I have in print right now. I didn't realize how much of a difference it would make to people.

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

Also, the complaints have been heard.  :blush: Levels 1 & 2 will be separated into two separate print books as soon as I can spend some time on this. The revised version is much bigger than the original, which is all I have in print right now. I didn't realize how much of a difference it would make to people.

 

I just purchased the 1+2 combo on Amazon. Was it the revised version? 

[KathyJo]

I just purchased the 1+2 combo on Amazon. Was it the revised version? 

 

Yes. The revised version is the only one available for sale now. That's one of the benefits of self-publishing.

[mom@shiloh]

I've used PLL, so even though we're just beginning with LLTL, I can do some comparing.  There are many similarities:  copywork, dictation, narration, picture study, poetry.  One of the first differences that I am noticing is that you actually read the book with LLTL, whereas PLL uses excerpts from books.  Another huge difference would be the length of the lessons.  LLTL lessons seem "just right" to me, whereas the PLL felt like it was just so much and so long and lots of writing.  I felt like my kids' eyes were glazing over when we were about halfway through.  

 

 

[KathyJo]

The question of rigor is one that I find frustrating. It's hard to answer because it seems to mean different things to different people. 
 
LLTL is not hard. I hope no child ever says my programs are hard. I try to teach skills gently. OTOH, they have to learn the skills in order to keep doing the exercises. That's one of the benefits of parsing and diagramming; children don't get to do a unit on direct objects, and then forget all about them again. They have to keep recognizing direct objects when they come across them in all the exercises. They are supposed to continue practicing with the definitions and lists, too. KNOW the information, PRACTICE the information, and do it with real sentences.
 
In grammar, there are only eight parts of speech "and some thingummies like gerunds," as Ellie said recently. :-) I've come round in my thinking; I like covering basic grammar every year. It's like early math: get the facts in early and well, and they'll have the information when they need it for more advanced studies. But it doesn't need to be hard. It just needs to be thorough. That's what I'm shooting for. 

[Aspasia]

The question of rigor is one that I find frustrating. It's hard to answer because it seems to mean different things to different people.

 

LLTL is not hard. I hope no child ever says my programs are hard. I try to teach skills gently. OTOH, they have to learn the skills in order to keep doing the exercises. That's one of the benefits of parsing and diagramming; children don't get to do a unit on direct objects, and then forget all about them again. They have to keep recognizing direct objects when they come across them in all the exercises. They are supposed to continue practicing with the definitions and lists, too. KNOW the information, PRACTICE the information, and do it with real sentences.

 

In grammar, there are only eight parts of speech "and some thingummies like gerunds," as Ellie said recently. :-) I've come round in my thinking; I like covering basic grammar every year. It's like early math: get the facts in early and well, and they'll have the information when they need it for more advanced studies. But it doesn't need to be hard. It just needs to be thorough. That's what I'm shooting for.

I agree. I don't necessarily want things to be hard. I just want them to be effective. Maybe that's the word I should have used instead of rigorous. I've just seen a lot of reviews for LLATL that say it's too light, that their kids didn't really learn much/enough from it, and for me, that would render it ineffective.

 

Anyway, I just bought LLTL the other day and I'm excited to get started on it! I really think it's going to be a great fit for dd. We're giving FLL the boot. (Okay, we gave it the boot awhile ago.)

[KathyJo]

I agree. I don't necessarily want things to be hard. I just want them to be effective. Maybe that's the word I should have used instead of rigorous. I've just seen a lot of reviews for LLATL that say it's too light, that their kids didn't really learn much/enough from it, and for me, that would render it ineffective.

 

Anyway, I just bought LLTL the other day and I'm excited to get started on it! I really think it's going to be a great fit for dd. We're giving FLL the boot. (Okay, we gave it the boot awhile ago.)

 

Yes, I like the word "effective"; it's less loaded. :-) I hope y'all find it so, and enjoy it, too.

[Coco_Clark]

I want to let you know, Kathy Jo, that I am only 7 or 8 lessons in with my son but we both LOVE this program.  Exactly what I was looking for and I have been singing its praises to any other homeschoolers that will listen (bringing it to my homeschool group next week for everyone to look at).  We started it pretty early (mid K) right as he was fluently reading so we might take over a year to finish each "level" but I think the pacing is right-on.  Rigorous but manageable.  

[beth83]

Also, the complaints have been heard.  :blush: Levels 1 & 2 will be separated into two separate print books as soon as I can spend some time on this. The revised version is much bigger than the original, which is all I have in print right now. I didn't realize how much of a difference it would make to people.

 

I first want to thank you for all this hard work you put into these books.  It seems to be a new favorite for many.  I'm excited to get started with it.  I have no clue how you find the time to offer this amazon resource to us all while you homeschool your own children.

 

I don't want to put a rush on you, but any idea when you will offer print versions of 1 and 2 separated?  I am hoping to start after the new year and would love to have them separate.  If they won't be ready, I'm debating about buying the print version and having it separated at Office Max, or just buying the pdfs and printing all those pages myself.

[KathyJo]

I first want to thank you for all this hard work you put into these books.  It seems to be a new favorite for many.  I'm excited to get started with it.  I have no clue how you find the time to offer this amazon resource to us all while you homeschool your own children.

 

I don't want to put a rush on you, but any idea when you will offer print versions of 1 and 2 separated?  I am hoping to start after the new year and would love to have them separate.  If they won't be ready, I'm debating about buying the print version and having it separated at Office Max, or just buying the pdfs and printing all those pages myself.

 

Thank you, Beth. :-) 

 

I will *try* to get that done within the next week. I just need to create new covers for them. When I'm finished, they'll be available immediately through CreateSpace, but it will take about another week for them to be up on Amazon. 

[Meadowlark]

This may be an obvious question, but I'm still not understanding the ins and outs of the program. So, when you say you read the whole piece of literature, rather than an excerpt, does that mean you read chunks of a novel each day, OR is that your read aloud book too? How does that part fit in?

 

Can someone explain to me what a lesson would look like for a 1st grader in regards to time, components, etc? He is advanced so im not sure if id start with level 1 or 2. Im not in a big hurry to teach parts of speech though...looking for a comprehensive approach if that makes sense. I have looked at the samples but I'm not sure I get it. I'm also the one considering PLL, which I've never held in my hands, and still unsure how they differ exactly. Different activities, yes, but how else?

[KathyJo]

This may be an obvious question, but I'm still not understanding the ins and outs of the program. So, when you say you read the whole piece of literature, rather than an excerpt, does that mean you read chunks of a novel each day, OR is that your read aloud book too? How does that part fit in?

 

Can someone explain to me what a lesson would look like for a 1st grader in regards to time, components, etc? He is advanced so im not sure if id start with level 1 or 2. Im not in a big hurry to teach parts of speech though...looking for a comprehensive approach if that makes sense. I have looked at the samples but I'm not sure I get it. I'm also the one considering PLL, which I've never held in my hands, and still unsure how they differ exactly. Different activities, yes, but how else?

 

Each lesson day has a chapter from a piece of children's literature, and this book is read each lesson day until the book is finished.

 

Level 2 begins with The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. So each lesson day until it is finished, one chapter of the book is scheduled. The lesson uses a passage from the book to illustrate the concept presented in the lesson. Lessons include a poem and an Aesop's fable to read, and copywork from the literature, poetry, or the Bible. Levels 2 and up also include a grammar exercise. The last lesson each week is either a picture study or a narration.

 

Each lesson is a few pages, including the poem and fable. My boys are old enough to do the copywork and exercises independently. There's less copywork in Level 1, only a one-line sentence at first. That gradually increases.

 

The samples for all levels of LLTL include the first two weeks worth of lessons, and on Amazon, the sample for PLL includes the first seven lessons. I recommend trying a few lessons from each and see which one you and your son enjoy the most. I'd also recommend reading the TOC for each program and seeing which one seems to meet your particular requirements better. And I'd be happy to answer any further questions.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

I'm not sure what levels 1 & 2 look like but for level 3 one chapter in the book corresponds to one lesson. We read the chapter first and then do the lesson. There is dictionary work, memory work, copy work, dictation, and grammar. Some lessons include oral or written narration. One lesson including the reading takes us 30 minutes tops. I would imagine a little less work is involved for lower levels.

[lorisuewho]

I got my hard copies of Level1/2 and Level 3. I didn't think that the combined book was that awfully big or hard to handle. It seems fine to me. I'm sure it being divided into 2 volumes will be fine also.

 

I looked over it rather thoroughly and all I thought was, "Could my life really be this easy next year?" We do scripture memory, poetry memory, picture study, narration, copywork, and read aloud already. What if this was already pre-planned for me AND it meshed together nicely?!? This will save me a ton of work this summer. I'm pleased as punch with the look of it, and plan to jump in next year with my boys combined to do level 2.

[FO4UR]

These look amazing!

 

 

I've been writing similar for my own dc.  I may try these out.

[Syllieann]

Is there an answer key for the grammar exercises? Or will there be in the higher levels?

[KathyJo]

Is there an answer key for the grammar exercises? Or will there be in the higher levels?

 

Levels 3 and up will have answer keys. Level 1 doesn't have exercises, and with Level 2, I think that the introduction and the discussion are enough, even if the child doesn't find every last verb in a passage. Level 3 begins diagramming, though, so I felt an answer key would be helpful.

 

Edited for grammar because, seriously...  :smilielol5: