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I may have found what I'm looking for in a program that truly uses literature to study LA skills.


5LittleMonkeys

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Tonight I finally took the time to look through RLTL1 and although I thought I would read the teacher portion from the iPad and print out the workbook only, I figured out that - for me- it's more likely to get done if I have it in a physical format. So, I printed what I wanted and now I'm trying to decide if I want to print the workbook or just start tomorrow with a regular notebook. Hmm, .. Choices, choices.

 

LLTL is still going. I'm sort of combining the children in level 2 but what that means here and now is that they all sit for the readings and my six year old narrates the fable and also my seven year old if he hasn't already done a summary narration for WWE that day. For the sake of humanity the boy needs to learn to summarize so he is continuing with WWE for that. I'm pulling his copywork from the LLTL reading, although not the selected sentences because he is up to copying larger portions. He does the brief grammar lesson also. So - that's how I'm smooshing these two programs together to meet my, and DS's, current needs. I haven't thought yet about the plan for next year.

 

And is till haven't decided on handwriting for DD and RLTL.

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Sorry to keep bumping this thread but it was on my mind as I have been re-examining samples and contemplating writing and grammar for next year that LLTL is the only resource out of all the grammar resources I've been looking at that doesn't make me cringe with anticipated agony.

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Sorry to keep bumping this thread but it was on my mind as I have been re-examining samples and contemplating writing and grammar for next year that LLTL is the only resource out of all the grammar resources I've been looking at that doesn't make me cringe with anticipated agony.

I keep coming in to see if anything new has been posted, lol

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I printed out the SOTW schedules from Kathy Jo's website and am trying to put together my 4 year plan for all the things I want to use. I'm just crossing out the headings and adding my own.

 

I'm going to be using the TMs for Grapevine Stick Figuring through the Bible. In the past I haven't found the time keep up with intensive Bible and literature at the same time. I think, sometimes, I'm going to skip some of the literature and apply the grammar lesson to a Bible portion, or maybe even the reading lesson.

 

I just deleted everything I wrote about handwriting. I don't know what I'm doing about that.

 

It's really helping me to have my schedules printed out and trying to put this all together like a jigsaw puzzle. It's forcing me to be realistic about volume, and is helping me to be logical about what needs to come before what.

 

 

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I'm just seeing this now and I like the looks of these.  I'm wondering if I could combine my 1st and 3rd graders in level 1.  My 1st grader is a very advanced reader, he is becoming comfortable w/ the mechanics of writing and is ready for gentle copywork.  My 3rd grader has difficulty w/ writing and is behind in this area.  Level 1 looks easy for him, but he is easily overwhelmed so I think in his case easy is good.  Thoughts?

 

Anything else I need to round out this as a full LA course?  spelling?  Anything else?

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I'm just seeing this now and I like the looks of these. I'm wondering if I could combine my 1st and 3rd graders in level 1. My 1st grader is a very advanced reader, he is becoming comfortable w/ the mechanics of writing and is ready for gentle copywork. My 3rd grader has difficulty w/ writing and is behind in this area. Level 1 looks easy for him, but he is easily overwhelmed so I think in his case easy is good. Thoughts?

 

Anything else I need to round out this as a full LA course? spelling? Anything else?

Reading Lessons through Literature combined with Language Lessons through Literature is a complete language arts curriculum.

 

I think of LLtL level 1 as gifted 1, average 2, remedial 3.

 

I'm using LLtL level 1 and RLtL level 1 with LD adults that are at that mixed up 3rd grade level where they can read some, but are just an uneven mess, that needs to be started over from the beginning.

 

LLtL follows a vintage/Charlotte Mason style order of writing instruction. If you are using LLtL with older remedial students, you might feel the need to add in a little PS style writing to supplement the CM writing. Supplementing wouldn't do any good in the long run, but in the short run might make you more complaint with oversight IF that is an issue.

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LLtL follows a vintage/Charlotte Mason style order of writing instruction. If you are using LLtL with older remedial students, you might feel the need to add in a little PS style writing to supplement the CM writing. Supplementing wouldn't do any good in the long run, but in the short run might make you more complaint with oversight IF that is an issue.

 

Thank you, Hunter. That's a beautifully stated explanation of the "to supplement, or not to supplement" question. I'm probably going to steal it.  :lol:

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I'm just seeing this now and I like the looks of these.  I'm wondering if I could combine my 1st and 3rd graders in level 1.  My 1st grader is a very advanced reader, he is becoming comfortable w/ the mechanics of writing and is ready for gentle copywork.  My 3rd grader has difficulty w/ writing and is behind in this area.  Level 1 looks easy for him, but he is easily overwhelmed so I think in his case easy is good.  Thoughts?

 

Anything else I need to round out this as a full LA course?  spelling?  Anything else?

 

I would probably combine the two of them. I mentioned earlier, my sister did use Level 1 with 1st and 3rd graders her first year of homeschooling. This year, my niece is in 4th grade, and she skipped Level 2 and went straight to 3. Early grammar programs have so much repetition by necessity that they can be very flexible.

 

Spelling is more of a philosophical question IMO. You can use RLTL for spelling, or wait until they're ready for prepared dictation, which is included in Level 3. LMK if you'd like more of an explanation.

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I would probably combine the two of them. I mentioned earlier, my sister did use Level 3 with 1st and 3rd graders her first year of homeschooling. This year, my niece is in 4th grade, and she skipped two and went straight to 3. Early grammar programs have so much repetition by necessity that they can be very flexible.

 

Spelling is more of a philosophical question IMO. You can use RLTL for spelling, or wait until they're ready for prepared dictation, which is included in Level 3. LMK if you'd like more of an explanation.

 

Thank you for responding.  I bought level 1 and am really excited to start.  I think we are all going to love this.

 

I am currently using R&S spelling w/ my 3rd grader and it's working for him so I am reluctant to switch.  Are there any other LA bits that I need to add or do I have my LA covered?  Am I missing something by not using RLTL?

 

I am interested in hearing more about the prepared dictation in level 3.

 

Thanks so much for popping in here to answer questions, it is most helpful!!

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Thank you for responding.  I bought level 1 and am really excited to start.  I think we are all going to love this.

 

I am currently using R&S spelling w/ my 3rd grader and it's working for him so I am reluctant to switch.  Are there any other LA bits that I need to add or do I have my LA covered?  Am I missing something by not using RLTL?

 

I am interested in hearing more about the prepared dictation in level 3.

 

Thanks so much for popping in here to answer questions, it is most helpful!!

 

If you're happy with R&S spelling, there's no reason to switch. RLTL teaches spelling through phonograms and spelling rules, so it's just a different way of teaching.

 

At this age, my opinion is that no other curricula is necessary. We don't use anything else. Once they're narrating comfortably, have them give regular oral narrations from their reading in all subjects; that's writing preparation. When you get to Level 2, recite the definitions and the lists; that's higher level grammar preparation. People can make Language Arts way more complicated than it has to be. :-) Different goals, different philosophies.

 

Here are previous entries in this thread re: prepared dictation. There are other comments on that page from others as well.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/495070-i-may-have-found-what-im-looking-for-in-a-program-that-truly-uses-literature-to-study-la-skills/page-3?do=findComment&comment=5363396

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/495070-i-may-have-found-what-im-looking-for-in-a-program-that-truly-uses-literature-to-study-la-skills/page-3?do=findComment&comment=5363485

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So if I buy the level 3 pdf do I still need to buy the workbook pdf too?

 

It's purely optional. The exercises and copywork are all listed in the text. For my son, I've printed out the exercise pages, but he does his copywork straight from my Kindle Fire into a comp book. 

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Thank you for responding.  I bought level 1 and am really excited to start.  I think we are all going to love this.

 

I am currently using R&S spelling w/ my 3rd grader and it's working for him so I am reluctant to switch.  Are there any other LA bits that I need to add or do I have my LA covered?  Am I missing something by not using RLTL?

 

I am interested in hearing more about the prepared dictation in level 3.

 

Thanks so much for popping in here to answer questions, it is most helpful!!

 

Rod and Staff is a good spelling program.

 

I choose to teach O-G spelling for 2 reasons. Most of my tutoring students have reading/spelling disorders and it's the most suggested solution. Secondly, I'm fascinated by phonics, so in my own self-education I like to over-analyze phonics.

 

"O-G" spelling programs are considered the "best", but "best" is what is "best" for YOU. Seriously, I do not think O-G is the best or only way to teach spelling. O-G programs can be overcomplicated and take too much time for some families that just don't need them. For other families they are a god-send, and mean the difference between literacy and illiteracy.

 

Rod and Staff spelling was designed to be a good enough curriculum, to squeeze into a packed day, to be used in multigrade classrooms, by untrained teachers.

 

RLtL was designed to be an affordable open-and-go version of O-G that ALSO includes a READER. The RLtL curriculum includes the Elson Readers. That may or may not be important to you. I know Ellie, for one, does NOT believe in the need for readers. There are many people that just teach literature with REAL and LIVING books.

 

I use readers. In the past I have taught cursive-first and the reader was essential as a resource for copywork. I am still undecided about dropping the cursive-first. I am literally dreaming about it night. :lol:

 

So if you want a reader as well as literature, and you are not using RLtL for spelling, you might want to choose a reader series. Also for anyone with a pre-reader, the RLtL spelling is the route of teaching phonics/reading, so some type of phonics might need to be added, too.

 

RLtL covers spelling, reading, and phonics. In Rod and Staff terms, that is spelling and the Bible reader/phonics series. RLtL is far cheaper than the whole R&S program. 

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RLtL was designed to be an affordable open-and-go version of O-G that ALSO includes a READER. The RLtL curriculum includes the Elson Readers. That may or may not be important to you. I know Ellie, for one, does NOT believe in the need for readers. There are many people that just teach literature with REAL and LIVING books.

I don't think they're necessary, but I like the Elson Readers. I feel like the controlled vocab combined with spelling lists organized around the readers gives children a chance to practice reading with KNOWN words. I also like all the old folk tales and fables that are included in them. There are other sources for those stories, but with the Elson Readers, I get to present them to brand new readers. And they're more entertaining to read (and listen to) than the list of spelling words. :-)

 

 

I use readers. In the past I have taught cursive-first and the reader was essential as a resource for copywork. I am still undecided about dropping the cursive-first. I am literally dreaming about it night. :lol:

:lol: I hate when that happens. I dreamed about grammar all the time when I was writing Level 3.

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Some decisions are so hard because there isn't a best answer. The pros and cons even out. There is comfort in that there is no wrong answer I guess, but the DECISION itself needs to be made.

 

I have to make a decision about handwriting over the next couple days before I can finish my year 1 Ancients schedule and it's wearing on me. I do have the history, science, and Bible all set, and the art is almost finished.

 

I still have not heard back from Draw and Write through History and I am not pleased! I used the TOCs, but really, there is a part of me that wants to just drop the program at this point. I can be such a short sighted child at times. For anyone else wanting to maybe use the pdfs, just be aware the customer service can be iffy or outright bad; I don't know which one yet.

 

But cursive-first--this is harder to decide than whether or not to drop Latin.

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Just so anyone else doesn't go back and search for the yahoo group like I did here is the link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/barefootragamuffins/

 

 

 

 

Thank you for these. As I was reading, I was thinking, "Links, people!" Lol. But I am behind on this thread. And, yes, I joined the WTM group for these and will join the Yahoo group. Even though I have a child in college and one in high school. Mama25angels knows all about my curriculum illness, lol.

 

And The Doctor quotes in signatures here crack me up. College student dd is a Whovian. :)

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Thank you for these. As I was reading, I was thinking, "Links, people!" Lol. But I am behind on this thread. And, yes, I joined the WTM group for these and will join the Yahoo group. Even though I have a child in college and one in high school. Mama25angels knows all about my curriculum illness, lol.

 

And The Doctor quotes in signatures here crack me up. College student dd is a Whovian. :)

 

Yes, lol!! I can attest to her illness!

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Finally got my Level 1\2 in the mail!  WooHoo!  Yeah, I know I'm like the last one to the party. ;)

 

Don't worry... I have my Level 1 but we're waiting for a friend (who is not on the forum but I'm apparently a pusher  :lol: ) to start, so our girls can do them together.  Their family who were visiting for Christmas have gotten stuck here with all the flights cancelled, so they aren't starting just yet, and we're getting to twiddle our thumbs waiting for the weather everyone else is having to go away.  So I may have gotten to the party sooner, but I'll bet you'll start actually partying sooner :cheers2: .

 

:)

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I'm still figuring how to start LLtL and cursive-first at the same time. I think I'm going to have to move most of 2 weeks of the Orange Fairy Book lessons forward, while I do a too-complicated-to-explain blitzkrieg introduction to cursive. Then start the week 1 Beatrix Potter lessons when the student is ready for copywork.

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Aime, you are not the last one to the party. I am. ;) I just hopped on the LLTL/RLTL train but am still waffling. Love what I see, but having a tough time justifying purchasing new curriculum when I have so.blasted.much here already. But this season of my life calls for EASY.  Open and go. No learning curve. And LLTL/RLTL seems to fit that bill perfectly. Sigh. Make up my mind for me?  :P

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My son is 12 so over what the target age is for level 3 I would expect. However I did buy it for him because nothing else is working. It has been like this for every subject we have ever done. Nothing worked until it did basically then he just seems to take off. Example math- he was so so so far behind the beginning of last year he was barely adding. We finally tried math u see he has jumped a TON!!! He went through beta, gamma and is now in the middle of delta. He is severe ADHD but he also has tourettes so he can't take many meds and the ones they tried seemed to make it so bad. Violent outbursts, crying fits, and the muscle tics that were so HORRIFYING people would stare in public. Needless to say he has been on a roller coaster forever it seems. This last year we stopped all meds and started watching diet and the changes are amazing!!!

 

He is now doing great. Now his issue is reading and grammar mostly. He just can't seem to grasp it or hold it for very long. So if you guys have any other advice on reading that would be great too. He can read he is just terribly slow and forgets the rules for the sounds and such. I am hoping to get through level 3 by summer maybe and help him start catching up because he asks all the time why he can't do what other kids do.

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My son is 12 so over what the target age is for level 3 I would expect. However I did buy it for him because nothing else is working. It has been like this for every subject we have ever done. Nothing worked until it did basically then he just seems to take off. Example math- he was so so so far behind the beginning of last year he was barely adding. We finally tried math u see he has jumped a TON!!! He went through beta, gamma and is now in the middle of delta. He is severe ADHD but he also has tourettes so he can't take many meds and the ones they tried seemed to make it so bad. Violent outbursts, crying fits, and the muscle tics that were so HORRIFYING people would stare in public. Needless to say he has been on a roller coaster forever it seems. This last year we stopped all meds and started watching diet and the changes are amazing!!!

 

He is now doing great. Now his issue is reading and grammar mostly. He just can't seem to grasp it or hold it for very long. So if you guys have any other advice on reading that would be great too. He can read he is just terribly slow and forgets the rules for the sounds and such. I am hoping to get through level 3 by summer maybe and help him start catching up because he asks all the time why he can't do what other kids do.

What are you using or reading instruction or phonics?

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Okay, I didn't read ALL of this thread, so hoping it's okay to ask questions here...

 

Would this be for us?  I am in GREAT NEED of simplifying our EVERYTHING with the little ones I have around.  At one time I did have more time than money, and I *love* to do my own thang', but now I do have more money than time (although not much money)Ă¢â‚¬Â¦  This is the reason I even allowed myself the luxury of looking here. :tongue_smilie:

 

My girls are in 1st & 2nd grade, and I have a DS 4.5 yo *just about* ready to read.  For language we're doing copy work in whatever it is I've scrapped together: Bible verses, hymns, sentences from their literature, poems, or out of the FLL books.  We've dabbled in grammar using FLL 1&2 (although I have not considered it a "must do" each day).  DD2 is flying through R&S spelling.  She's mostly a natural speller I think, but she loves to "do school". ;)  And I feel better to check that box.  I have sitting on my shelf WRTR 4th ed, with phonogram cards, and intended to use it for DD2 (I did not) so I thought I'd try it with DS.  I like it. My girls are excellent readers and love to read anything they can.  The reason this appeals to me is that it's all done for me, and it looks enjoyable.  I must mention that we have used (and still have higher levels of) WWE, but it just wasn't satisfying to me or my girls.  I didn't like that we were reading only portions of the literature.  (And I couldn't manage reading the entirety of all of those books.  Although that is what we like to do.  Read a book and discuss it.)  I just didn't like the feel of the discussion with the very specific questions.  My girls are good at retelling.  My oldest, however, dislikes being quizzed.  And I didn't like it either.  But I wanted to like it though.  I mostly strive to use what I have or make what I have work.  Right now, I don't have the luxury of time to tweak and make things on my ownĂ¢â‚¬Â¦. :(

 

ETA: With this program am I at a great disadvantage if I don't have an e-reader device?  (I don't have a kindle or iPhone or anything.)  We normally check out all our reading selections at the library or purchase ones we really want to have at home.

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I just see the Table of Contents and then the pages that describe the different types of lessons, but not an actual lesson.  Am I missing it?

 

Once you click Look Inside you have to click Surprise Me in the left sidebar to see an actual lesson.

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Did ya get it?!!

 

I really really need to remember to do a review of this after we've used it a while. I think it should//will really get going once there are more samples and reviews readily available! It's really fantastic.

 

I need to do a review as well. My dd6 is enjoying LLTL 1 so much! It's her favorite part of the day. 

 

I need to figure out where she would place in RTL once she finishes LOE Foundations.

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I'm starting my 6 year old (Who did LOE foundations as well as most of OPGTR) in Part Two of Level 1. The words are review, but we can just go faster. I can see others just starting in Level 2 is the kid really, really, truly has it all down cold. And don't have a little brother coming up that would need Level 1, any way :)

 

Thanks for the info.

 

From the samples I was leaning toward starting in Level 2.

 

And we have the little brother issue as well.  ;)

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Okay, I didn't read ALL of this thread, so hoping it's okay to ask questions here...

 

Would this be for us?  I am in GREAT NEED of simplifying our EVERYTHING with the little ones I have around.  At one time I did have more time than money, and I *love* to do my own thang', but now I do have more money than time (although not much money)Ă¢â‚¬Â¦  This is the reason I even allowed myself the luxury of looking here. :tongue_smilie:

 

My girls are in 1st & 2nd grade, and I have a DS 4.5 yo *just about* ready to read.  For language we're doing copy work in whatever it is I've scrapped together: Bible verses, hymns, sentences from their literature, poems, or out of the FLL books.  We've dabbled in grammar using FLL 1&2 (although I have not considered it a "must do" each day).  DD2 is flying through R&S spelling.  She's mostly a natural speller I think, but she loves to "do school". ;)  And I feel better to check that box.  I have sitting on my shelf WRTR 4th ed, with phonogram cards, and intended to use it for DD2 (I did not) so I thought I'd try it with DS.  I like it. My girls are excellent readers and love to read anything they can.  The reason this appeals to me is that it's all done for me, and it looks enjoyable.  I must mention that we have used (and still have higher levels of) WWE, but it just wasn't satisfying to me or my girls.  I didn't like that we were reading only portions of the literature.  (And I couldn't manage reading the entirety of all of those books.  Although that is what we like to do.  Read a book and discuss it.)  I just didn't like the feel of the discussion with the very specific questions.  My girls are good at retelling.  My oldest, however, dislikes being quizzed.  And I didn't like it either.  But I wanted to like it though.  I mostly strive to use what I have or make what I have work.  Right now, I don't have the luxury of time to tweak and make things on my ownĂ¢â‚¬Â¦. :(

 

ETA: With this program am I at a great disadvantage if I don't have an e-reader device?  (I don't have a kindle or iPhone or anything.)  We normally check out all our reading selections at the library or purchase ones we really want to have at home.

 

I would guess that this would work well for you.  We used FLL 1/2 and WWE when my eldest was younger, and didn't like those specific questions either.  Mostly we skipped them :) and I'd watch for my dd's summaries to cover the important points.  If she didn't, we'd just have a conversation about it.  Then we switched to a Charlotte Mason style which really emphasized narration, and it did what I'd been wanting FLL/WWE to do.  We also had the same issue of wanting to read the whole story instead of the WWE snippets.  And it is *definitely* simplifying our language arts/poetry/picture study work.

 

I bought the PDF version of the books, and while we do have e-reader capabilities, I'm mostly reading it off of my computer.  Someone else mentioned that you can buy a paper copy, which is what a friend is doing, but I thought I'd share the computer option. :)

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My son is 12 so over what the target age is for level 3 I would expect. However I did buy it for him because nothing else is working. It has been like this for every subject we have ever done. Nothing worked until it did basically then he just seems to take off. Example math- he was so so so far behind the beginning of last year he was barely adding. We finally tried math u see he has jumped a TON!!! He went through beta, gamma and is now in the middle of delta. He is severe ADHD but he also has tourettes so he can't take many meds and the ones they tried seemed to make it so bad. Violent outbursts, crying fits, and the muscle tics that were so HORRIFYING people would stare in public. Needless to say he has been on a roller coaster forever it seems. This last year we stopped all meds and started watching diet and the changes are amazing!!!

 

He is now doing great. Now his issue is reading and grammar mostly. He just can't seem to grasp it or hold it for very long. So if you guys have any other advice on reading that would be great too. He can read he is just terribly slow and forgets the rules for the sounds and such. I am hoping to get through level 3 by summer maybe and help him start catching up because he asks all the time why he can't do what other kids do.

 

I'm starting my average LD adults in level 1, so...

 

The adults I focus on are at about 3rd grade level with gaps, and of course all sorts of strengths far above that. But I need to review all of grades 1 and 2, before starting 3rd grade work.

 

I still don't have all my plans put together, but I'm working on it. Are you on the yahoo group?

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