I may have found what I'm looking for in a program that truly uses literature to study LA skills.

[KathyJo]

I got my hard copies of Level1/2 and Level 3. I didn't think that the combined book was that awfully big or hard to handle. It seems fine to me. I'm sure it being divided into 2 volumes will be fine also.

 

Mine is the old version, a 500+ page hardcover, and it's comfortable for me. The new format added 200 pages, but it seemed like it wouldn't be much thicker according to the spine width calculator. I also wanted to keep the cost down, which one book does. I've never liked the 8.5 x 11 size books because I find them difficult to read across the page. 

 

I'm rambling. Anyway, I'm glad you're not unhappy with the size. :-) And now I should probably get off the forum and actually go do something to make that separation between 1 and 2 happen.  :001_rolleyes:

[mathnmusic]

I just want to thank Kathy Jo for this language arts curriculum.  We were using a hodgepodge of stuff, from LLATL (sounds remarkably similar but SO different, doesn't bare comparing IMO) to WWE/FLL, plus separate literature reading list, separate poetry memorization, separate picture study (on the rare days we got to it).  Did I mention it was a hodgepodge?  Nothing went together and it was more work than I could manage to keep up teaching all those different pieces on a regular basis.  This is going to seriously simplify my life!  It pretty much does everything I've been dreaming about...assigns reading of high quality literature, copywork AND GRAMMAR in context based on that reading, poetry, picture study - and even sentence diagramming.  Whoo hoo!  Is it weird to be this excited about a curriculum?  And Kathy Jo has been a dream to work with, so open to feedback and responsive to my questions/needs, beyond my expectations.  All my kids will soon be in LLTL, just gotta get it all printed out.  I've looked through all 3 levels and they look fantastic...gentle but thorough and to the point.  Thank you so much, Kathy Jo!  I think we might be with you for the long haul.

[KathyJo]

Nothing went together and it was more work than I could manage to keep up teaching all those different pieces on a regular basis.  This is going to seriously simplify my life! 

 

This is why I wrote it, because it simplified MY life. :-) I was trying to piece together stuff for Nikki, but I couldn't seem to keep up with all of it, and the idea of doing it again and again for the others as they got older made me want to cry. Writing repeatable lessons just made sense. For ME, it made sense; y'all should just keep buying my stuff.  :lol:

 

Thank you for the kind words. It's gratifying to hear that people like my curricula.

[FO4UR]

I've been looking through Level 3, and am highly impressed. We are going to start in January.  

 

 

I've been writing my own, piecing things together too.  This will simplify things.  I'm going to put my (dyslexic) 10yo and my (advanced) 8yo in Level 3 together.  

 

 

ETA:  The teacher's book PDF pulls up nicely on my Kindle.  *Love*

[KathyJo]

ETA:  The teacher's book PDF pulls up nicely on my Kindle.  *Love*

 

The smaller size makes it nice. 8.5 x 11 PDFs are hard to read on a small screen, but the 6 x 9 size is a definite advantage for mini-tablets and ereaders. My 7yos even does his Reading Lessons Through Literature reading from my Kindle Fire, and it's worked out far better than I expected it to.

[lorisuewho]

This is why I wrote it, because it simplified MY life. :-) y'all should just keep buying my stuff.  :lol:

Seeing as you are writing what I was already doing and simplifying my life, you can probably count on it!

[Hunter]

"Could my life really be this easy next year?"

That was my first thought. Could it be this easy?

 

I spilled tea all over the last hardcopy book I was still using, and was on the look out for an eBook for teaching Spalding style reading/spelling.

 

Kathy Jo gifted me the language books as well as the reading books and some others too. WooHoo! This has been a really BAD month in other ways, but I have been SO blessed with eBooks! :D

 

I like how the language lessons are based on literature, but the more archaic and difficult passages are simplified and modernized. I've never seen this before, and like that. In the past, I've always shied away from literature based grammar curricula because they were so inefficient. My OCD just goes into overdrive and I want to pull my hair out by the roots, when I try to use them.

 

Unlike the phonograms, I had stuff that was good enough for language, but it was all so scattered. I was trying to write out a schedule and just had notes and notes and notes. Can it be this simple? All in a file that is nicely formatted with no lag and crashes. And is modernized when necessary. And doesn't trigger my OCD.

 

Well, I'm about to find out of it can be this easy. I'll be interested to see what others think over the next few months.

 

This is the first time I read this thread. I didn't even click on it before because I'm so prejudiced against literature based grammar. But this looks good.

[Hunter]

Yes, the books display beautifully on my iPad Mini!

[Hunter]

What are others doing about choosing a hand/font?

 

My first choice in choosing a hand, is that students will eventually be able to write it on unlined cheap computer/copy paper and that it is legible when written teeny tiny. My students live eventful lives, and that is usually the only paper they have, and not always much of it. I know that isn't a priority for others here, though. Also, I need to worry about LD lefties, as I have a statistically surprising amount of them.

 

Italic manuscript and cursive may not be my favorite, but Italic is doable, for my needs. The slant is minor (helpful for lefties and on unlined paper), and the ascenders and descenders are shorter than some other hands (easier to read when tiny). It has it pluses. And these books present a doable and efficient plan for Italic.

 

The WHOLE and BIG picture is more important than the parts. I want to streamline and not supplement and tweak anymore than necessary.

 

I'm just curious what others are choosing for a hand.

 

Are you printing workbooks pages, or just using them as a guide to quickly make your own homemade/handwritten page? Or copying the copywork from a screen?

[FO4UR]

What are others doing about choosing a hand/font?

 

My first choice in choosing a hand, is that students will eventually be able to write it on unlined cheap computer/copy paper and that it is legible when written teeny tiny. My students live eventful lives, and that is usually the only paper they have, and not always much of it. I know that isn't a priority for others here, though. Also, I need to worry about LD lefties, as I have a statistically surprising amount of them.

 

Italic manuscript and cursive may not be my favorite, but Italic is doable, for my needs. The slant is minor (helpful for lefties and on unlined paper), and the ascenders and descenders are shorter than some other hands (easier to read when tiny). It has it pluses. And these books present a doable and efficient plan for Italic.

 

The WHOLE and BIG picture is more important than the parts. I want to streamline and not supplement and tweak anymore than necessary.

 

I'm just curious what others are choosing for a hand.

 

Are you printing workbooks pages, or just using them as a guide to quickly make your own homemade/handwritten page? Or copying the copywork from a screen?

 

 

 

I'm going to just print off the wb pages.  I own Startwrite, and usually use Modern Cursive or Modern Manuscript on that.  However, I am keeping things simple.  My 10yo and 8yo are pretty set in their handwriting muscle memory so it's not a big deal to me.  

[lorisuewho]

I have educational fontware, and I thought I was going to make up my own pages. After getting my hard copy of the LLTL books and realizing how easy everything was going to be, I thought, "Why stop there? Just buy the workbook downloads and make your life CRAZY easy!!"

 

But I don't know whether to do it in manuscript or cursive. I think it is easier to analyze and study sentences in manuscript, but I would love for my them to practice their cursive.

[Hunter]

Does anyone know which Italic hand the italic is. I'm in the middle of downloading the workbooks and having problems with a full disk, and can't scan the files at the same time. I've got tech mess here.

 

Yup, I could do crazy easy, couldn't I. That's what I'm thinking. The students I would most likely be using the reading workbook handwritng pages with, are most likely to be tutored at a women's center where I know the staff will print these pages for us. And I could practise the hand enough that I could create the handmade sheets when I couldn't print.

 

I'm thinking of going for crazy easy. I haven't taught intensive handwriting to anyone for the past couple months and everyone has reverted pretty much back to whatever mess they were already doing during the break. So continuity is not a problem now. If I'm going to make a change, now is the time.

 

In the grace year thread someone--was it Kathy Jo--talked about skipping the things that take a lot of time but don't produce fruit. My obsessive instruction of handwriting hasn't produced long term fruit, despite the short term appearance of success and student enthusiasm.

[KathyJo]

Does anyone know which Italic hand the italic is. I'm in the middle of downloading the workbooks and having problems with a full disk, and can't scan the files at the same time. I've got tech mess here.

 

It's the Getty-Dubay style font from Educational Fontware. I heart Educational Fontware.

 

In the grace year thread someone--was it Kathy Jo--talked about skipping the things that take a lot of time but don't produce fruit. My obsessive instruction of handwriting hasn't produced long term fruit, despite the short term appearance of success and student enthusiasm.

 

Yep, 'twas I. 

 

I'll confess to being disappointed to hear that obsessive instruction of handwriting hasn't produced long term fruit. We were doing italic, but I currently have my three younger boys learning Peterson style cursive. It's an effort to try to get them focused on the rhythm instead of just forming the letters, but we're still in the beginning.

 

My oldest son STILL hates handwriting, but I think he's now too old for ME to fix. He'll have to find a reason to care. He has a neat hand, he just hates it. He can print and write cursive italic, and I'm going to make him practice reading his brothers' cursive writing to make sure that's not an issue.

My second son doesn't whine and has a neat hand, so I'm not too concerned.

My third son has beautiful handwriting while he's learning, and then it gets sloppier by the day. Sometimes I worry that this one is smarter than me, and I think he thinks so, too.

My little guy has a very neat hand, and he tries very hard.

My plan is to start Baby Girl on cursive from the beginning. 

 

Questions of handwriting are tricky. I've tried the most popular handwriting styles out there over the last decade plus, and wish I'd known then what I know now.  :001_rolleyes:

[KathyJo]

But I don't know whether to do it in manuscript or cursive. I think it is easier to analyze and study sentences in manuscript, but I would love for my them to practice their cursive.

 

I think it's easier for US to analyze and study sentences in manuscript, because that's how we always did it. However, if our children are seeing the sentences in cursive while they're learning to analyze them, I don't think it will be an issue as long as they're not having trouble with cursive.

 

BTW, and completely OT: I love the sling in your picture. :-) I have a Didymos, but River mostly rides around in the Ergo these days.

[lorisuewho]

BTW, and completely OT: I love the sling in your picture. :-) I have a Didymos, but River mostly rides around in the Ergo these days.

Thank you. I'm exclusively using mei tais these days. My wrapping days are sadly over. The one in my avatar I wove, back when I had free time and did things like weaving. I think it is impressive that you are homeschooling and writing curriculum. I'm fortunate to put dinner on the table each night these days :o)

[KathyJo]

Thank you. I'm exclusively using mei tais these days. My wrapping days are sadly over. The one in my avatar I wove, back when I had free time and did things like weaving. I think it is impressive that you are homeschooling and writing curriculum. I'm fortunate to put dinner on the table each night these days :o)

 

Ha! Ask me how long it's been since I've knitted or woven anything. 

 

We actually have a very simple life. We're on an off-grid farm. I try to limit my computer time to business purposes, though I do tend to get sucked into threads here if I'm not careful. My boys help do washing, cleaning, and cooking. River is old enough to not want constant attention now. All of these things give me extra time in small ways, more than I had when they were all younger. And right now, I'm only writing a few lessons a week, to keep up with the children who are doing Level 5 while it's being written. 

 

I also have an obsessive personality type. Come spring, when I stop cursing the cold weather, I start looking for a project, and I'll spend insane amounts of time working on it. My family lets me get it out of my system (mostly) without complaining, and then I go back to my normal pace until it strikes again. I probably have some sort of disorder.  B)

[lorisuewho]

Love it!

[Hunter]

I think handwriting might pay off if there are no breaks, and it's carried out for YEARS. My group is unstable if nothing else :lol:

 

And the ones that would benefit the most, by the most intensive work and perfectly chosen hand, are the ones most likely to take lots of breaks.

 

They like learning cursive. Most of them never learned this milestone activity, It's heady for them to see a neatly written cursive page, after believing that was never a possible goal for them. I had one lady start crying when she saw what she did. It was a happy soggy huggy moment for us. But I helped her fill out a housing application not too long ago, and there was no evidence we had ever studied handwriting.

 

The moment counts, yes. That experience was important at the time. And I guess there is the long time fruit of understanding that if she sat down with me again, that with some work she could do it again, and hope is a powerful thing.

 

But if I'm going to decide to complicate things, I need to know that all the distraction and extra work, is not going to put us further backwards than if we spent that time on something that will produce fruit.

 

Your point about fruit really caught my attention. It was a lightbulb moment.

 

I used Italic with my 2E kid back in the 90s. It was THE suggestion for LD kids. I didn't work so well for him at all. But I think he would have done BETTER if I had taught italic explicitly by stroke, instead of by copying and inferring. And I didn't spend the time on handwriting that I should have, because we were too quick to move onto the rigorous and the abstract and the rare and the minutiae. I got all sorts of pats on the back. My kid was like a trained dog doing tricks others kids his age couldn't do. WOOHOO! I was a good teacher, right? In hindsight, I'm not so impressed with the tricks I taught him.

 

I don't think italic is the BEST hand for LD students, but I'm not so sure the most fruit in GENERAL is produced by using the BEST hand, if it requires all sorts of tweaking.

 

Thanks, for letting me know the exact font you used. if I decide to adopt this hand/font, I want to seriously study the hand, in ways I did not know to do back in the 90s.

 

And for non LD students, but just ones that got lost in the system early, italic looks beautiful in nature journals with special pens. It's something very artsy and soothing to study. The italic has some opportunities that the Spalding hand doesn't.

[bethanyjoy]

Is this a complete LA program? Would I need to add anything? My daughter is in 2nd grade, if that matters.

 

Thanks,

Bethany

[KathyJo]

I think handwriting might pay off if there are no breaks, and it's carried out for YEARS. My group is unstable if nothing else :lol:

We're working on the idea of "slow but steady." Lately, we start our day with 10 to 15 minutes of cursive practice. We do the big arm motions, finger trace the letters, then practice writing. I'm trying to incorporate what we're learning into my own writing when I add to my commonplace book. At this point, it's actually made my handwriting look worse than my best, slow and careful hand.  :001_rolleyes: I'm counting on the method improving speed and legibility in time.

 

 

I used Italic with my 2E kid back in the 90s. It was THE suggestion for LD kids. I didn't work so well for him at all. But I think he would have done BETTER if I had taught italic explicitly by stroke, instead of by copying and inferring. And I didn't spend the time on handwriting that I should have, because we were too quick to move onto the rigorous and the abstract and the rare and the minutiae. I got all sorts of pats on the back. My kid was like a trained dog doing tricks others kids his age couldn't do. WOOHOO! I was a good teacher, right? In hindsight, I'm not so impressed with the tricks I taught him.

Multiple children spaced out like ours are give me a chance for a "do over."  :laugh: 

 

 

Thanks, for letting me know the exact font you used. if I decide to adopt this hand/font, I want to seriously study the hand, in ways I did not know to do back in the 90s.

Is there a font at Educational Fontware that's closer to what you prefer?

[KathyJo]

Is this a complete LA program? Would I need to add anything? My daughter is in 2nd grade, if that matters.

 

Thanks,

Bethany

 

No, you would not have to add anything to it. It includes books to read, grammar exercises, copywork, and writing through imitation. I wanted it to cover everything, but without taking over one's entire day. Please let me know if I can answer any specific questions. 

[krismoose]

Is this a complete LA program? Would I need to add anything? My daughter is in 2nd grade, if that matters.

 

Thanks,

Bethany

It is complete, in that it includes copy work, narration, grammar, spelling through prepared dictation, and imitation of excellent writing. It is very reflective of Charlotte Mason's philosophy in this area. You can find more details here:

http://www.barefootmeandering.com/lltl.html

 

I'm using a separate spelling program at this time because I've found my ds, who is allergic to writing, needs to interact more with words he is learning to spell. But prepared dictation works well for many others. HTH :)

[KathyJo]

It is complete, in that it includes copy work, narration, grammar, spelling through prepared dictation, and imitation of excellent writing. It is very reflective of Charlotte Mason's philosophy in this area. You can find more details here:

http://www.barefootmeandering.com/lltl.html

 

I'm using a separate spelling program at this time because I've found my ds, who is allergic to writing, needs to interact more with words he is learning to spell. But prepared dictation works well for many others. HTH :)

 

The spelling journal helps with this. It's a free download in my Lulu store, and children can use it to analyze any problem words in the dictation passage. That's what we do. My third son in particular would get very little out of prepared dictation otherwise.

[Hunter]

I have a couple unexpected moments before I have to go out.

 

There is just no computer font like Spalding. Cursive First is the closest but just not the same. HWT is the only vertical font, but students hate it and for good reason. It might be easy to EXPLAIN, but it is NOT easy to WRITE. It's awkward and tiring. And it's ugly.

 

DNL ad DNR are an interesting combination. If slant is going to be taught, it's useful to also offer a left slant for lefties that automatically left slant. But for MY group that writes on unlined paper, all slanted writing produces an upward drift in lines, that they ALL notice I don't have. I find that an adoption of a vertical hand immediately produces less upward line drift.

 

I don't see anything better than italic even for my group. If there ever is a true Spalding computer font, preferably with the ability to use manuscript for the uppercase alongside cursive lowercase, I'd recommend that in a hot second.

 

The italic is as good or better than all the other option, I believe in general, for LD students in general, and for my unique crew.

 

My recommendation is to just offer italic. You are offering a full multiyear curriculum that does not need to be supplemented. It's hard when only one font is offered for an incomplete curricula that needs to be combined with other curricula with a different font. You are as complete as Abeka and Bob Jones. You are free to just offer one font, like they do.

 

Italic is good, in my opinion. I don't think anything else already on the market will produce more fruit. There is lots of room on the market for better fonts. But with what we HAVE, Italic is good.

[krismoose]

The spelling journal helps with this. It's a free download in my Lulu store, and children can use it to analyze any problem words in the dictation passage. That's what we do. My third son in particular would get very little out of prepared dictation otherwise.

Thanks, that looks great! When ds matures enough to analyze and correct his errors without melting down, I would like to use this approach. For now he does better with very concrete assignments, including some worksheets, where he knows exactly what he needs to complete, iykwim. In his mind, he'd be getting surprise work because he wouldn't know his errors ahead of time. :D I'm excited to start LLTL3 in January, btw!

[KathyJo]

Thanks, that looks great! When ds matures enough to analyze and correct his errors without melting down, I would like to use this approach. For now he does better with very concrete assignments, including some worksheets, where he knows exactly what he needs to complete, iykwim. In his mind, he'd be getting surprise work because he wouldn't know his errors ahead of time. :D I'm excited to start LLTL3 in January, btw!

 

LOL Yeah, I get it. Prepared dictation relies on a certain level of maturity. I hope y'all like it!

[mathnmusic]

How do you get the LLTL pdf's onto the ipad?  We were just gifted with an ipad mini and it'd be great if we could figure out how to get the pdf's onto it.  I've downloaded the books onto my computer but don't know where to go from here.

 

Thanks so much in advance for any help!

[Hunter]

Install dropbox on your computer and on your iPad. Drag the files into the dropbox folder on your computer. Then open the dropbox app on your iPad and you will see the files there.

 

I didn't use this option, so I'm not sure what happens then with THESE files. but often you can just read files right in dropbox and others need to be opened in another app, and often the options of what to do next are clear.

 

If you can't figure it out, I'll go through the process on my iPad and write down exactly what I did.

 

I put my files in iBooks and read them there. iBooks is doing a beautiful job with them. I can tap the color pictures and pinch them to fill the screen.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I'm so glad you all are still talking about this!  I can't wait to start in January with ds. :)  Oh how I wish I'd known about this sooner though...I'd loved to have used this with dd10.

 

This may have been discussed previously and I missed it...Kathy-Jo, what indicators do you look for in a student before starting level 1? I'm looking toward the future for my soon to be K student.

[beth83]

The spelling journal helps with this. It's a free download in my Lulu store, and children can use it to analyze any problem words in the dictation passage. That's what we do. My third son in particular would get very little out of prepared dictation otherwise.

 

This is slightly off topic, but how do you teach spelling?  I'm loving everything else you have offered up, so I'm sure you have wisdom on this topic, as well.  

 

My daughter is reading fluently at this point, although we are starting soon with level 1.  I downloaded your Spelling Journal, and I would love to use it.  Just to make sure I am following, you just approach the spelling rules and phonograms when they come up in the words you are studying for the week?  

 

Am I missing out on something (phonogram/spelling related) if I am not using Reading Lessons Through Literature?  I'm assuming this program actually teaches a child to read, so since we are reading fluently it wouldn't be needed, right?  

[KathyJo]

This may have been discussed previously and I missed it...Kathy-Jo, what indicators do you look for in a student before starting level 1? I'm looking toward the future for my soon to be K student.

 

I think it depends upon whether or not you want to be able to do everything. I think one lady said she's using it with a child who doesn't write well yet, so he's not doing the copywork. I originally recommended it for children who are reading fluently, but I started it with Eli before that point and it's been fine. I still mark the phonograms for him, and put a line between syllables, and then he sounds out each word. Then he copies the sentence.

 

So for us, it's the ability to at least sound out the words, and the ability to do copywork.

[KathyJo]

This is slightly off topic, but how do you teach spelling?  I'm loving everything else you have offered up, so I'm sure you have wisdom on this topic, as well.  

 

My daughter is reading fluently at this point, although we are starting soon with level 1.  I downloaded your Spelling Journal, and I would love to use it.  Just to make sure I am following, you just approach the spelling rules and phonograms when they come up in the words you are studying for the week?  

 

Am I missing out on something (phonogram/spelling related) if I am not using Reading Lessons Through Literature?  I'm assuming this program actually teaches a child to read, so since we are reading fluently it wouldn't be needed, right?  

 

Stupid computer at my response. *sigh* Okay, here I go again.

 

I'm copying this bit about RLTL from another thread: Yes, it can be used for spelling. It works like other Orton phonogram/Spalding type programs. The spelling lists are dictated to the child and marked according to phonograms and spelling rules. Applicable rules are listed alongside the spelling words. In this way, children learn the rules just by repetition. It's by rote at first, but then they start to understand and apply the rules as they continue.

 

If you've learned the phonograms and spelling rules in another program, then no, you're not missing out on anything by not using RLTL. Really, prepared dictation and the spelling journal will work fine with whatever method of analyzing words you want to use. I prefer phonograms and spelling rules because I find this to be the most logical and efficient way to study spelling. 

 

Prepared dictation is all we use after RLTL for studying spelling. It begins with choosing a passage, or using the one recommended in LLTL. The boys choose 2-4 words to analyze, study the passage, and then type it up with me watching for mistakes. It really doesn't take that long. In addition to the words they actually analyzed, they're also practicing writing all the other words in the passage. They get plenty of practice writing the most common words in English since, by definition, those show up constantly. They're writing the words in the context of WRITiNG, which is how they need to be able to use the skill. And they have to hold a thought in their noggins long enough to write it down, an important skill in writing. I think all of these benefits makes prepared dictation a superior way to study spelling, especially when combined with phonograms and spelling rules. 

 

If anyone wants more info on prepared dictation, LMK and I'll copy and paste the description from one of the books.

 

Something strange but true and only slightly OT: My oldest son spells beautifully, but with a British accent. He's read so many British authors over the years that "centre" and "colour" look normal to him. :-) I found a Wikipedia article that explained the differences so he could write American like the rest of us. No one ever mentioned this as a possibe downside to reading fine British literature.  :lol: Oddly enough, it never showed up in his writing until this year.

[Hunter]

I'm using level 1 of RLtL more for spelling and handwriting, than the reading. Reading is...I don't know...much harder to measure. Many students have adapted to LDs PARTIALLY, and are uneven in different areas of reading. I think most of us fail to understand all that is happening with reading. Reading improves when spelling improves for some of my students. Reading improves with all sorts of activities that we do. A rich environment does so many things I don't understand.

 

Reading is one of the many areas that feel like grabbing at smoke to me. So yeah, I USE reading curricula, but especially when I am using a phonogram based reading curriculum, I PLACE students where they are spelling and handwriting, and then adapt from there. Level 1 of RLtL marks all the reading stories, so the readings are another opportunity for the student to think about the phonograms. So if they need to practice reading then they can, but if they are FULLY above that they can reinforce the spelling.

 

And I make sure to provide audio that matches a challenging text, so that students have the opportunity read at the highest level possible and practice their areas of strength.

 

All my students are able to handle a pencil, and are developmentally ready to begin copying phonograms. As for having the attention span to do the work--not always. :lol:

 

I had one student who would jump up and dance for awhile to her iPod, in the middle of lessons. She just couldn't sit through a whole lesson. And she would cry. She could read above what we were doing, but the lessons were still a bit too much. She desperately wanted to be able to write better, and to figure out where the START of her reading problems were, build a stronger foundation, and then systematically work our way forward.

 

I'm not sure if any of this is applicable.

[Hunter]

I did do some of my schooling overseas, but it's the British books that have most mixed up my spelling. I never have studied a comparison list and consider both ways right.

 

Z can be zed or zee, as well. :lol:

 

With a child, that was moving onto certain schools, I might need to take it all more seriously, I guess. So far anyone that counts is usually educated enough to know what's going on and just asks how my spelling got that way.

 

I didn't even know when I was younger that I was mixing up the spellings. Yes, I read books, and yes I studied spelling lists to pass tests in both countries, but I had little understanding of the big picture of what was going on till a doctor pointed out to me that my spelling was partially British.

[KathyJo]

So far anyone that counts is usually educated enough to know what's going on and just asks how my spelling got that way.

 

This is what I figured, so I haven't worried really. But we did find it funny, especially the level of shock my son showed when he learned how to spell "neighbor" in American English. There are a few words, like judgement, where I prefer the British spelling because the American way, judgment, does not follow the rules.

[SEGway]

I would like more info on prepared dictation! (Please. :) )

[KathyJo]

I would like more info on prepared dictation! (Please. :) )

 

Copied and pasted from RLTL. LMK if anything is unclear.

 

-----

 

We practice spelling through prepared dictation. Selections for prepared dictation are included in Language Lessons Through Literature, my grammar program. However, you can do prepared dictation with any text you like.

Dictation should not begin until third or fourth grade, depending on the readiness of the child. A child who has finished Reading Lessons Through Literature but who is not yet ready for dictation could analyze words from his copywork a few times a week instead.

 

In prepared dictation, children type or write a passage after studying it for five to ten minutes. The basic process was described by Charlotte Mason in her book Home Education. We combine the method with analyzing words according to phonograms and spelling rules.

 

I know that dictation can sound like a huge, time consuming exercise, especially with multiple children. It’s not. We do prepared dictation twice a week, on the “off†days from grammar. First, I try to have my boys read through the spelling rules at least once each week, and we make an effort to analyze words that illustrate the different rules. (If they don’t appear naturally through the passages we study, then we occasionally spend some time exploring a rule rather than a passage.) Then, each of my boys studies his passage for about ten minutes. He chooses, sometimes with my help, two or three words to analyze. A passage should not have more than three or four unknown words to be studied, though there’s nothing wrong with analyzing extra words. He adds these to his Spelling Journal, analyzing each word syllable by syllable.

The Spelling Journal organizes words according to phonogram or spelling rule, and it is a free download on my site. The Spelling Journal can help identify problem spelling areas. Also, having children read through their Spelling Journals occasionally can help reinforce lessons from their previous studies. If you prefer to avoid printing out workbooks, then you could use the Spelling Journal as a template for creating a Spelling Journal in a composition book.

 

Dictations may be written or typed. My boys type their dictations. The spelling and grammar checks are turned off in our word processing program, and we increase the font size to 20+ points so that I can read over their shoulders. I read the exercises while each boy takes his turn at the keyboard. I stand behind them so that I can make sure they don’t make any mistakes. When a mistake is made, we correct immediately. After the dictation, we analyze, or re-analyze, the missed word. Most weeks, there are no missed words from any of my boys.

 

Beginners can start with just a sentence or two, while older children can type or write up to several paragraphs. We use a variety of sources, including Aesop’s fables, literature, Bible verses, poetry, and even my children’s free reading choices. It’s important to avoid passages which contain incorrect grammar, which many modern books do. However, I’ve found that dictation goes easier when the child is studying a passage he loves.

[mathnmusic]

So essentially, is prepared dictation dictating a few spelling words that the dc have studied ahead of time and within context of a reading passage?  or are full sentences or passages dictated?  Sorry to not get it, this sounds different than what we've been doing so just want to make sure I understand how to do it.

[Hunter]

This is what I figured, so I haven't worried really. But we did find it funny, especially the level of shock my son showed when he learned how to spell "neighbor" in American English. There are a few words, like judgement, where I prefer the British spelling because the American way, judgment, does not follow the rules.

I should look at a list. Judgement has been a problem for me. It's not showing up here as misspelled, but it often does in other spell checks. I think I studied the spelling when I studied Writing Road to Reading 4th edition and parked myself down long enough to complete my own entire spelling notebook.

 

Judgment/Judgement has left me scratching my head. I still just move along through life mixed. When traveling back and forth overseas my accent would quickly change too, but I had no control or awareness of it. I could notice the similar changes in my brother just a little bit, but not in myself at all.

 

I'm looking forward to completing RLtL myself. Creating my own notebooks cleans up my own spelling. I was never able to spell rhythm before learning phonograms.

[Hunter]

I found a list. No wonder I've been having trouble with rigor/ rigour. It's one of the words that is different. I hate the word, and think it's best left only applied to Hebrew slaves in Egypt, but it comes up more and more at forums now.

 

And plow/plough. I kept spelling plough, and spell checks were marking it wrong and giving no suggestions.

 

Thanks for the idea to look at a list, when I'm feeling baffled about all those red squiggly lines all over my text.

[mom@shiloh]

So essentially, is prepared dictation dictating a few spelling words that the dc have studied ahead of time and within context of a reading passage?  or are full sentences or passages dictated?  Sorry to not get it, this sounds different than what we've been doing so just want to make sure I understand how to do it.

 

Prepared dictation is typically a sentence or two or three (depending on age and ability)  taken directly from a book.  The passage will contain spelling words that a child might need practice on, but they are in context of the sentence and not just a list of words.  When we do prepared dictation, my younger children might first use the passage as copywork.  Then, the next day, we'll discuss certain things about the passage.  Maybe capitalization of proper nouns, or compound words, or commas, whatever.  (Perhaps we'll discuss incomplete sentences such as the one I just used.)  We'll also make note of words that he/she might have difficulty spelling and discuss the "rules" for the correct spelling.  For example, we just talked about using a 'tch' after a short vowel instead of using a 'ch' after a long vowel.  Then, when they feel confident of writing the passage correctly, we'll do the dictation.  Your goal is to have your child so prepared for the dictation that there will be no mistakes by the time they do it.  And, yes, you dictate the full passage to them and have them write it.

 

With my older children, we often skip the copywork part of it and discuss the dictation, taking note of words that might be difficult to spell.

 

hth,

[KathyJo]

I found a list. No wonder I've been having trouble with rigor/ rigour. It's one of the words that is different. I hate the word, and think it's best left only applied to Hebrew slaves in Egypt, but it comes up more and more at forums now.

 

LOL Hunter! I've had to look up "rigor" every time I've typed it, because I thought it had a U. I didn't realize it was an American/British thing that had me confused.

 

My husband added "corpses" to the acceptable ways in which to use the word "rigor." 

 

I'm not a big fan of the word, either, partially because it means vastly different things to different people. 

[KathyJo]

So essentially, is prepared dictation dictating a few spelling words that the dc have studied ahead of time and within context of a reading passage?  or are full sentences or passages dictated?  Sorry to not get it, this sounds different than what we've been doing so just want to make sure I understand how to do it.

 

Keep asking till you get it. :-) It's like mom@shiloh said. The child analyzes unknown words, with help if necessary. Then he studies the passage. Then he types or writes the entire passage.

 

Many people do dictation without preparing first, but that's not teaching, it's testing. I'm not interested in testing.

[SEGway]

Thanks so much, KathyJo, for answering so many questions about your program. I recently got RLtL1, and LLtL1&2 (pdf at Lulu). I actually got them for my second dd who I think would really benefit from the phonogram OG spelling route. (She cooperates with Phonics Pathways some days. But, she really wants to know all the ground rules before she attempts Anything. So, I think a switch/start over would be good for her. However, I could never "get" WRTR well enough to implement helpfully.)

 

After looking through them for a while, however. I wondered if they would work for something more, too. My oldest is a great reader and pretty decent speller, but I would like to back up and solidify phonograms/rules much more coherently for her. We did AAS1-3, and tried HTTS, but they both seem a bit scattershot. She can tell the rule and apply it for the lesson. But, mostly she just "knows" how to spell some words and doesn't others (usually struggling with the more complex, less frequently read ones).

 

So....all that blathering is to say, I want to back up enough with her to be able to use prepared dictation to cement rules. But, I think we should start with RLtL in order to really "get" the OG method (Both student and teacher). She's been skating through RLtL1 as I'm trying to pick up the markings/rules in order to utilize them for the words she would actually benefit from analyzing. Do you think getting RL2 or 3 would teach any more of the system (i.e. markings, specific rules?) If I'm using it as a spelling program for a very fluent reader, would 2 or 3 do a better job of explaining the markings/bringing up rules? Or should we just go fast through 1 and figure out the spelling journal (which I also got through Lulu...it looks great for what I want to do longer term. Thanks!) 

 

Fwiw, I'm planning to switch my oldest over to LLtL (probably 3, maybe 4 if it's out) next year after we finish RS3 which is going relatively well this year.

 

Is this question even making sense? :)

[KathyJo]

So....all that blathering is to say, I want to back up enough with her to be able to use prepared dictation to cement rules. But, I think we should start with RLtL in order to really "get" the OG method (Both student and teacher). She's been skating through RLtL1 as I'm trying to pick up the markings/rules in order to utilize them for the words she would actually benefit from analyzing. Do you think getting RL2 or 3 would teach any more of the system (i.e. markings, specific rules?) If I'm using it as a spelling program for a very fluent reader, would 2 or 3 do a better job of explaining the markings/bringing up rules? Or should we just go fast through 1 and figure out the spelling journal (which I also got through Lulu...it looks great for what I want to do longer term. Thanks!) 

 

Learning the spelling rules in RLTL depends on the repetition of hearing the rule stated with individual words rather than studying the rule and then focusing on words that use that rule. I imagine that either method could work beautifully, depending on the child. But because of the focus on repetition, I feel it's best to go through as many books as possible. The issue is knowing how much of the material they've already covered in another program. 

 

I usually say to start with 1, especially since you already have it. I figured it out once, and an older child doing 40-50 words per week could complete all three levels in 34-43 weeks. Level 1 has 480 words, so at 40 words per week, it would only take 12 weeks to complete. I also think that doing more words leads to the parent becoming more confident about how to analyze the words, something that will help when you come into contact with new words to analyze. The competence and the CONFIDENCE, which is harder for some of us, both come from feeling like you've analyzed so many words you could do it in your sleep. :-D 

 

But if you feel like she already knows and understands everything in Level 1, and she's really not getting anything out of it, you can certainly move on to Level 2. Part of the reason for simple rules only in Level 1 is to keep from overwhelming the beginner, which she's not. The rules get a little more complicated as the word lists do, but the simpler ones are still mentioned, so she'd still be getting them.

 

All of the actual markings are mentioned in Level 1; there's not a lot of them. Level 3 has the most rules mentioned. Any level you start with will give her a basic familiarity with the rules so that using the spelling journal and prepared dictation will be easier. 

 

Did that help at all? 

[Coco_Clark]

I'm curious what others are doing about the program being 3 days a week. In the past we've read our chosen read-aloud daily. Do you use the program daily? Only read three days a week? Read two different read alouds either alternating or doubling up three days per week? We are still in Beatrix Potter, so I simply read something else the other days. But when we get not the chapter books, I wonder if the long breaks will be annoying.

[Hunter]

I've never gotten every subject done every day. A 5 lesson a week curriculum is a curriculum that will fail, for most people. Few people can even keep up with a 5 lesson a week math program, even if they are deciding that is the ONLY subject they will do some days.

 

There are dentist appointments and colds and spring fever and field trips and emergency phonecalls and math lessons that take all day. Why do most of us stress over the math getting done, no matter what, ever since at least the early 1800s?

 

As for stretched out read alouds, I have gotten used to that idea from AO and other CM schedules. I don't know if "used to" is the best way, but it's what I am used to now, so... I wouldn't know what to do with an open and go that did something else.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

We are using level 3 and we do it every day. It is the new favorite part of our day. :) We will be finished sooner but that is okay since we are really looking forward to the new grade level publications. Once we get into books 4 and 5 we will follow the suggested schedule and just continue reading other read aloud books in between. We usually have 2 or 3 going at the same time, anyway ;)

[KathyJo]

I'm curious what others are doing about the program being 3 days a week. In the past we've read our chosen read-aloud daily. Do you use the program daily? Only read three days a week? Read two different read alouds either alternating or doubling up three days per week? We are still in Beatrix Potter, so I simply read something else the other days. But when we get not the chapter books, I wonder if the long breaks will be annoying.

 

Can I answer as a user rather than the author? :-)

 

Like Hunter, I have trouble with programs that expect 5 days a week, 180 days per year. Three days a week is comfortable for me. And yes, we have multiple read alouds going. Right now, I'm reading both the Burgess Bird Book and The Burgess Animal Book to Eli and Joshua; we alternate. We have a geography through lit book. We have a Simon Bloom book that we're reading for science. We're reading Joshua's current LLTL selection aloud, and Eli's is on audio. Sometimes we read several read alouds in a day, and sometimes just one. So we stick to the three-day-a-week schedule, and read other things on the other days.

 

Author hat on: I didn't want the literature in LLTL to take over my day to the point where we never seemed to read anything else.

[Quiver0f10]

I love that it's only 3 days a week. For me, that means it will actually get done. We do other stuff on the other 2 days.