I may have found what I'm looking for in a program that truly uses literature to study LA skills.

[mama25angels]

I'm just posting to say that I would love to hear weekly or bi weekly updates from everyone whose posted in this thread, particularly the people using RLTL.  I won't be starting until after the 1st, but i'm so looking forward to using this with my Ds.  I'm actually thinking of going back through it with my older one as well, just to solidify his reading and perhaps work on his spelling (he's a horrible spelle).  I can't wait to get a few months under my belt, because now i'm considering giving up my FLL/ WWE combo and using the earlier levels of LLTL and just killing all the birds with one stone, lol.  Have a Happy Holiday season ladies!!!!!

[fourisenough]

One more question for Kathy Jo: I am planning to buy the print version of LLtL and LRtL as I prefer to have hard copies from which to work. What else do I need for level 1 of each so that I'm not dependent on my computer. I already own the complete collection of Beatrix Potter. Do I need to buy a copy of the Elson Reader Primer?

[Hunter]

Gateway subscription is just Yesterday's Classics books as they are being released, and…well…some stuff that I either don't understand or has been abandoned before it was finished.

 

YC has just added a 2nd package of eBooks with all the books that have been released this year, plus the ones coming out this week. It includes the Comstock book broken up into AO terms, and the Fall and Winter book I want to use. About half the books are AO books.

[Hunter]

One more question for Kathy Jo: I am planning to buy the print version of LLtL and LRtL as I prefer to have hard copies from which to work. What else do I need for level 1 of each so that I'm not dependent on my computer. I already own the complete collection of Beatrix Potter. Do I need to buy a copy of the Elson Reader Primer?

 

The Elson Primer is included in RLtL. It is beautifully formatted and all the multi-letter phonograms are underlined.

[Hunter]

The thing I find hardest about Italic is that the "clock parts" (as they are called in Spalding) are triangles with rounded corners instead of circles. The slant is another issue, too, for my lefties. But at least it's not extreme and if students make the letters vertical they look just fine. 

 

I have learned that all the major handwriting programs have a system of strokes, but that you might have to hunt around to learn the rules of the system, beyond the curriculum you are using. GD (or GB or whatever it is called) doesn't contain the instructions in Penny Gardner and Briem.net, but the explicit instructions in those curricula can be applied to GD.

 

Don Potter's new free handwriting is basically the same set of strokes as Peterson, but simplified, and not so streeeeeeeched out. For  normal children living in normal homes in the western world, that'll work nicely. For my students writing teeny tiny on unlined paper, it's messier than a more compact and less slanted hand.

 

Spalding is a set of strokes too.

 

HWT, just YUCK. My students HATE it. It's easy to UNDERSTAND, but not WRITE.

 

I think the Italic font chosen for RLtL is a VERY logical choice. I have no better suggestion for worksheets. Truly.

 

I know if I give students the choice of using the italic worksheets and using my handmade Spalding ones, they will choose the italic worksheets. And they will be happy with their results as long as I don't go and point out that the letters are supposed to be slanted and that the circles are supposed to be triangles with rounded corners. They will either naturally mimic the computer font, or do something correct enough that comes naturally to them. Once I see what they do naturally, I'll be able to encourage them to do THAT consistently.

 

Now that I have studied enough handwriting systems, I think I could look at almost any student handwriting and create a system based on what they are doing most of the time. Neat handwriting is about having A system. It's not important which system it is.

 

I'm not sure what I am going to do yet, but I think the italic and alternate fonts used are fine choices based on logic and what is currently available on the market. When the day comes that there is a Spalding computer font, THEN I might have a preference for worksheets other than italic.

 

This is another area where I need to stop focusing on the minutiae and look at the big picture. My obsessions with "right" and "best" are only an asset to my students when I keep them in check. If I run wild with them, I accomplish less than a teacher who doesn't know best from worst.

[Hunter]

I'll try to post a list of the literature books later, if someone else doesn't. I really need to go run some more errands. I think each list might be in the introductory sample pages of each samples, right before lesson 1.

[KathyJo]

One more question for Kathy Jo: I am planning to buy the print version of LLtL and LRtL as I prefer to have hard copies from which to work. What else do I need for level 1 of each so that I'm not dependent on my computer. I already own the complete collection of Beatrix Potter. Do I need to buy a copy of the Elson Reader Primer?

 

 

Yes I came here to ask if there is a list of all the books used in lltl, as well!

 

Everything I am seeing says "uses books like The Wizard of Oz..."

 

The Elson Readers are included in RLTL.

 

Level 1 Books:

Beatrix Potter Stories

Just So Stories by Rudyard Kipling

Five Children and It by Edith Nesbit

The Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling

Pinocchio by C. Collodi

The Orange Fairy Book by Andrew Lang (seven stories)

The Velveteen Rabbit by Margery Williams

Five Little Peppers and How They Grew by Margaret Sidney

 

Level 2 Books:

The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum

The Blue Fairy Book by Andrew Lang (13 stories)

Peter Pan by J. M. Barrie

The Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame

Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll

Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There by Lewis Carroll

A Wonder-Book for Girls and Boys by Nathaniel Hawthorne

 

HTH!

[KathyJo]

I'll try to post a list of the literature books later, if someone else doesn't. I really need to go run some more errands. I think each list might be in the introductory sample pages of each samples, right before lesson 1.

 

They are, but I posted them here, too. I need to get this information on my site for easy reference.

[KathyJo]

This is another area where I need to stop focusing on the minutiae and look at the big picture. My obsessions with "right" and "best" are only an asset to my students when I keep them in check. If I run wild with them, I accomplish less than a teacher who doesn't know best from worst.

 

This. I've let go a lot of my control freak tendencies over the past two years, and it's made life so much easier. If one tries to stay a control freak in a half-finished, off-grid house, it will drive one insane.  :lol:

 

I've never been overly concerned with the exact formation of the letters, though. I'm shooting for neat and legible. With the Peterson method, my boys are learning from my handwritten samples, so it's probably closer to Don Potter's samples. I'm also giving them the option for beginning m, n, and y with a round top or a sharp top, etc.

 

Five years ago, I would NEVER have considered teaching handwriting like this, but I like it. 

[Hunter]

I'm just posting to say that I would love to hear weekly or bi weekly updates from everyone whose posted in this thread, particularly the people using RLTL.  I won't be starting until after the 1st, but i'm so looking forward to using this with my Ds.  I'm actually thinking of going back through it with my older one as well, just to solidify his reading and perhaps work on his spelling (he's a horrible spelle).  I can't wait to get a few months under my belt, because now i'm considering giving up my FLL/ WWE combo and using the earlier levels of LLTL and just killing all the birds with one stone, lol.  Have a Happy Holiday season ladies!!!!!

 

mama25angels,

 

I too looked at LLtL only after RLtL, and partly chose it to go along with RLtL for simplicity. I was already using AO for lit/comp/grammar though, not PHP products. For ME, choosing LLtL is the bridge allowing to move BACK towards using more PHP products and TWTM book, not less.

 

PHP is more classical. AO is more CM. LLtL can be a bridge for people wanting to combine these methods.

 

Streamlining and simplifying are good, but where are you going in general? Are your children gifted or normal? What type of college are you looking at? What are you planning for high school? Which LA program will most meet YOUR needs LONG term, as well as your short term ones.

[mama25angels]

mama25angels,

 

I too looked at LLtL only after RLtL, and partly chose it to go along with RLtL for simplicity. I was already using AO for lit/comp/grammar though, not PHP products. For ME, choosing LLtL is the bridge allowing to move BACK towards using more PHP products and TWTM book, not less.

 

PHP is more classical. AO is more CM. LLtL can be a bridge for people wanting to combine these methods.

 

Streamlining and simplifying are good, but where are you going in general? Are your children gifted or normal? What type of college are you looking at? What are you planning for high school? Which LA program will most meet YOUR needs LONG term, as well as your short term ones.

 

Hunter, my kids are so normal it's not even funny! My HS plan is a hybrid of MFW's history cycle and programs, with as little tweaking as possible. I do plan to return to IEW for style for HS, just because I love the program. I'm looking at CC college first and transferring to a university or going to the military. My boys are Army crazy! My long term goal is something that gets done consistently, is simple and preferably all in one place and I feel that LLTL fits that bill. I agree with you though, I do think it will help me work SOTW into our rotation on a more regular basis.

[KathyJo]

I started a Yahoo group. If any of y'all are interested in having a weekly update, talking about programs, etc, please feel free to join us there, or join me on Facebook. You can also PM me here, or send me an email if you have questions specific to me. I'll be popping out again unless someone notifies me that there are questions specifically for me here.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/barefootragamuffins/

 

God bless, and thanks!

[beth83]

I'm just posting to say that I would love to hear weekly or bi weekly updates from everyone whose posted in this thread, particularly the people using RLTL.  I won't be starting until after the 1st, but i'm so looking forward to using this with my Ds.  I'm actually thinking of going back through it with my older one as well, just to solidify his reading and perhaps work on his spelling (he's a horrible spelle).  I can't wait to get a few months under my belt, because now i'm considering giving up my FLL/ WWE combo and using the earlier levels of LLTL and just killing all the birds with one stone, lol.  Have a Happy Holiday season ladies!!!!!

 

We will be starting RLTL in January, as well.  I just joined the yahoo group.  I have been trying to mull through how to implement it in my head.  I know it is pretty open and go, but I have a reader and this program will serve as her spelling curriculum.  I'm just not sure about scheduling.

 

We are in the beginning of our homeschooling journey and I can't believe I am leaving WWE/FLL behind before we even started.  I actually purchased WWE beginning of December and returned it two weeks later once I came across this thread.  I think LLTL will be a much better fit.  I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who taking the leap over to fully using KathyJo's material.

 

Hopefully you will join the group and we can follow along with y'all.

[Coco_Clark]

Since handwriting is coming up so often, what do you all think I should do about this? My 6 year old has sensory and fine motor issues that have made writing very difficult for him to master. We went the HWT route even though it is the ugliest hand imaginable because it was that or ball and stick. He just can't see where he (or the pencil for that matter) is in space.

 

Anyways, his writing is getting better and I will most likely put off cursive for years and years. I may never do cursive with him, honestly.

 

My 4 year old on the other hand has excellent fine motor skills. And he's desperate for school. So desperate in fact that he's conning his brother into teaching him to write. Ack! It's the blind leading the blind in all caps.

 

I've pretty much decided on taking the time to reach him to write, better me than the six year old. And I'd rather avoid HWT. But I don't think cursive-first is realistic at four. Or am I just thinking that because its so ingrained in me that this is hard? What say you? I'm buying LOE foundations and it has handwriting instruction but its labeled "manuscript" or "cursive" :/. I have no idea if either is a good hand.

[Hunter]

I don't know if any of you have seen the SOTW planning sheets at the author's website.

http://www.barefootmeandering.com/planning_pages.html

 

I haven't seen PHP Language Arts in awhile. Last time I looked at it, I decided to do TWTM 1st edition Language Arts as It's what I knew first and it worked, so...I decided to stick with it. I'm sure PHP has some really important Great Books prep focus to it. I'm sure for some families/teachers, it's the best curriculum for them.

 

I think there are some people though that want to do TWTM history, but have different ideas about language arts instruction. Not better ideas, just different ideas.

 

I don't know enough about PHP language arts to compare it to other curriculum, because as I said, I have used the 1st edition plan. I just think people that have been happy with PHP language arts should think twice about starting something new. I think they should be sure about what they are trying to accomplish, and then pick the curriculum that will get them where they want to go.

 

This thread is very active. People are having fun. Some of us are curriculum hoarders and just love reading and trying out new curriculum. I'm really enjoying my self-education studies with the curriculum, and am planning on using it with students, but...I don't want to contribute to anyone being dissatisfied with what they are doing. Especially if it's been working well for them.

[Hunter]

Since handwriting is coming up so often, what do you all think I should do about this? My 6 year old has sensory and fine motor issues that have made writing very difficult for him to master. We went the HWT route even though it is the ugliest hand imaginable because it was that or ball and stick. He just can't see where he (or the pencil for that matter) is in space.

 

Anyways, his writing is getting better and I will most likely put off cursive for years and years. I may never do cursive with him, honestly.

 

My 4 year old on the other hand has excellent fine motor skills. And he's desperate for school. So desperate in fact that he's conning his brother into teaching him to write. Ack! It's the blind leading the blind in all caps.

 

I've pretty much decided on taking the time to reach him to write, better me than the six year old. And I'd rather avoid HWT. But I don't think cursive-first is realistic at four. Or am I just thinking that because its so ingrained in me that this is hard? What say you? I'm buying LOE foundations and it has handwriting instruction but its labeled "manuscript" or "cursive" :/. I have no idea if either is a good hand.

Some people teach 4 year olds all caps, because it's easier for them. Waldorf has 7 year old 1st graders write in all caps for the entire year and don't introduce lowercase until second grade for 8 year olds.

 

I don't know about Foundations, but LOE Essentials doesn't have the same explicit handwriting instruction as Spalding and HWT. It's more of a D'Nealian hand which even though it doesn't look all that different, really has a different system. Don Potter's instructions are a lot like Peterson and are a must read for anyone teaching a slanted traditional hand.

 

I'm doing a lot of thinking about handwriting. I can't give much advice right now.

 

This is as hard for me as dropping LCC (the oldschool method, not the book) grammar--teach Latin first and then English. I still have not entirely adapted to teaching English grammar without even referencing Latin. It feels like teaching with my hands tied behind my back.

 

Now I'm looking at dropping cursive first. I don't know, though. I'm rambling. CoCo_Clark, good luck with the handwriting, whatever you do.

[silver]

LOE Foundations is similar to Peterson cursive in that strokes are taught and the rhythm is focused on. I think LOE is more "ordinary" in how it looks--which could be a plus or minus, depending what you feel about Peterson Cursive. Manuscript is similar to d'nelian, but the tails were dropped since Essentials was published. It still has the slant, though. Instructions for both manuscript and cursive are included in the teacher text. The student book will differ on the handwritting pages (the samples to copy) and on a few of the activities.

[Sarah0000]

Popping back in for a moment.  :seeya:

 

 

Hey, Sarah. I think I get what you're asking here. You want to take the written lesson in LLTL, and basically do it while y'all are reading, when the actual sample sentences appear in the book, instead of reading the lesson from LLTL afterwards. Is that correct?

 

Level 1 mostly points out punctuation and capitalization, so you definitely could with it.

 

For Level 2, I think you could much of the time, maybe even most of the time, but not all of the time. I did not make any special effort to keep the sample text in LLTL in the same order that you'll find it in the book. Also, for some lessons, I was not able to find an example in that exact chapter of the book, so I got the example from a previous chapter. But I think you could much of the time. 

 

Levels 3 and up would have the same issues as Level 2. In addition, since 3 begins diagramming, I think that would be too much of an interruption to the reading.

 

Re: RLTL, no, I don't believe it would be possible to use it, or really any phonogram based program, in that fashion. The focus is on analyzing the words, and like the diagramming, I think that would be too much of an interruption to the reading. In addition, the spelling lists in RLTL are padded with words from the Ayres list, so not all of the spelling words appear in the stories. 

 

I hope this helps. I'm popping back out now, so please PM me if you have further questions that perhaps I should attempt to answer.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I mean! Thanks for clarifying my jumbled thoughts. I hope you all don't mind a follow up question since it seems like this thread has turned into a LA discussion. I've read so much about how phonogram based reading methods are preferable and to limit the amount of sight words your child learns. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH AN EARLY READER? I thought maybe since RLTL uses literature and is a gentle yet phonogram based method it might work with a very young reader doing it completely organically, but it sounds like not. DS is only 25 months and has started reading entire pages, all sight words. I've been illustrating sounding out so maybe he's doing that in his head, but I don't think so. He's memorized all the initial phonograms and I've decided to introduce the digraphs. I just don't want him to rely on sight words but I'm not sure what else I could be doing. Is it OK to just let him do his own thing, then when he reaches the normal age for starting a reading program to start something like RLTL? BTW, I had no plans to start curriculums or anything structured until first grade a la CM, but my little guy has different plans it seems. Now I'm a bit lost.

 

[FO4UR]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean! Thanks for clarifying my jumbled thoughts. I hope you all don't mind a follow up question since it seems like this thread has turned into a LA discussion. I've read so much about how phonogram based reading methods are preferable and to limit the amount of sight words your child learns. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH AN EARLY READER? I thought maybe since RLTL uses literature and is a gentle yet phonogram based method it might work with a very young reader doing it completely organically, but it sounds like not. DS is only 25 months and has started reading entire pages, all sight words. I've been illustrating sounding out so maybe he's doing that in his head, but I don't think so. He's memorized all the initial phonograms and I've decided to introduce the digraphs. I just don't want him to rely on sight words but I'm not sure what else I could be doing. Is it OK to just let him do his own thing, then when he reaches the normal age for starting a reading program to start something like RLTL? BTW, I had no plans to start curriculums or anything structured until first grade a la CM, but my little guy has different plans it seems. Now I'm a bit lost.

 

 

 

If he's reading at 25mo, you have a gifted little one on your hands, and the rules to the game change. I encourage you to ask some parents who have btdt with a gifted dc.  Go with your gut.  If lessons are enjoyable and are not taking the place of age appropriate play, then do it. But, just b/c he's an early reader doesn't mean he's developmentally ready for school lessons.  If he's bright enough to figure out reading at 25mo, he's bright enough to figure out phonetics in a similarly gentle and spontaneous manner. 

 

 

My dd was reading at 3yo.  I just let her go.  She eaves dropped in on her brothers phonetic reading/spelling lessons, but other than that I didn't start her on formal school work until she either reached the age for it or demanded it.  (She played school with ETC workbooks and her dolls from age 3-6.)  

[Hunter]

Everyone reads from memory. It's important also to know how to sound out NEW words, but we read from memory.

 

Many people use phonogram instruction to teach SPELLING. You little one doesn't have the hand eye coordination to write yet.

 

I taught myself to read at 4. First I memorized words and then I figured out some basic phonics by working backwards and then applied those rules to new words. With instruction I could have read more faster, but there was no rush. It was so frustrating to be so ignored and neglected though.

 

I knew to never ask for more than one new word at a time. If I just asked for one, it was quicker and easier to give me that one word than to say, "no". I remember sitting on the couch with my book, trying to decode it and being afraid to ask for another word, because it was too soon after the previous one.

 

Memory is fine, especially for young gifted children.

 

You can also use RLtL or any other phonogram curriculum to teach YOURSELF, and then teach your son like you have been.

[Dory]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean! Thanks for clarifying my jumbled thoughts. I hope you all don't mind a follow up question since it seems like this thread has turned into a LA discussion. I've read so much about how phonogram based reading methods are preferable and to limit the amount of sight words your child learns. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH AN EARLY READER? I thought maybe since RLTL uses literature and is a gentle yet phonogram based method it might work with a very young reader doing it completely organically, but it sounds like not. DS is only 25 months and has started reading entire pages, all sight words. I've been illustrating sounding out so maybe he's doing that in his head, but I don't think so. He's memorized all the initial phonograms and I've decided to introduce the digraphs. I just don't want him to rely on sight words but I'm not sure what else I could be doing. Is it OK to just let him do his own thing, then when he reaches the normal age for starting a reading program to start something like RLTL? BTW, I had no plans to start curriculums or anything structured until first grade a la CM, but my little guy has different plans it seems. Now I'm a bit lost.

 

 

Go with your gut. My youngest was reading at 2 as well. I started tucking games into his days that helped him learn a few rules. About once a week he would play with AAS with my older two. It doesn't take very much with those type of kids to tuck those rules in there. You don't have to do formal school, just point things out and let him play with a few things. Be prepared to start a little early with some things though. For those active minds, it's torture not to be given information and they will dig up stuff on their own if you don't give them anything. I used to hide in my closet to read my moms textbooks because my mom was wanting to be more gentle with her approach to schooling with us in the early years and I was craving more. I learned things that weren't really age appropriate because I was digging without any direction. Plans change, it's ok to change your approach if the kid doesn't fit it. My youngest is 6 now and is in grade 3 material, not because I have pushed him with anything, but because I hand him information (usually in living books) and read stuff to him and do a page here and there, when he acts like he is wanting more. He is just now hitting the age where I am expecting a little more structure from him. By the time he's 8 I will expect him to have structure to his school day and be developing a good work ethic with his studies, up until now, it's just been play for him.

[Sarah0000]

Everyone reads from memory. It's important also to know how to sound out NEW words, but we read from memory.

 

Many people use phonogram instruction to teach SPELLING. You little one doesn't have the hand eye coordination to write yet.

 

I taught myself to read at 4. First I memorized words and then I figured out some basic phonics by working backwards and then applied those rules to new words. With instruction I could have read more faster, but there was no rush. It was so frustrating to be so ignored and neglected though.

 

I knew to never ask for more than one new word at a time. If I just asked for one, it was quicker and easier to give me that one word than to say, "no". I remember sitting on the couch with my book, trying to decode it and being afraid to ask for another word, because it was too soon after the previous one.

 

Memory is fine, especially for young gifted children.

 

You can also use RLtL or any other phonogram curriculum to teach YOURSELF, and then teach your son like you have been.

 

He started writing letters a couple months ago, spontaneously and to my surprise. Now I'm just trying to follow behind him showing him the correct way whenever he chooses to write letters. Like he'll write a lowercase g starting at the bottom so I just show him to start in the middle. But we play around with spelling with letter tiles not with writing.

 

Thanks for the responses. It looks like I'll need to do some research on how to guide gifted children instead of following the usual methods.

[FO4UR]

He started writing letters a couple months ago, spontaneously and to my surprise. Now I'm just trying to follow behind him showing him the correct way whenever he chooses to write letters. Like he'll write a lowercase g starting at the bottom so I just show him to start in the middle. But we play around with spelling with letter tiles not with writing.

 

Thanks for the responses. It looks like I'll need to do some research on how to guide gifted children instead of following the usual methods.

 

 

Sandpaper letters are great for teaching the handwriting strokes.  My littles would give me their little pointer finger and I would trace their finger round the sandpaper as I said the sound.  

[Hunter]

Gifted can be different, sometimes. It does help to talk to other parents with gifted children.

[thefragile7393]

Darn it why didn't I find these earlier LOL???  Well maybe with DD if I am still hs'ing then.

 

Question..at what grade or age would you start the Georgraphy course?

[5LittleMonkeys]

I'm using the Level 1 Reading Lessons with my 2nd grader who is already reading.  I have not used an Orton Gillingham approach before, so I wanted to start from the beginning.  So far, it's going nicely.  I can't say how it would have worked for us if my son wasn't already reading, but I'm wanting to go back and cement the phonograms for the sake of his spelling, and because I think he still stumbles sometimes on some of the more advanced phonograms.  I think this seems like it will work well for that, provided my son is the type who does well with learning spelling in this way.

 

 

 

 

Hey all!  OP here and I have a question regarding the Reading Lessons for kand, or anyone else using that program with a student already reading (KathyJo can answer too...I just don't want to drag her away from her work :) ).  

 

How do you determine which level to start with?  I guess I'm confused by the TOC and sample pages in the different levels.  Each level seems to teach all 75 phonograms, starting with the alphabet.  However, on the BRC website it's clearly stated that each level contains different levels of the Elson Readers which makes me think that the phonograms are separated into the 3 levels, each with advancing difficulty. Did I mention that I'm confused?

 

Also, did I miss where it was stated how long each level would take a dc to work through?  Is each considered a year long program?  

[Mama2two]

Is the Language Lesson through Literature Level 3 workbook not an amazon?  If it is can someone link it b/c i can't find it.

[mom@shiloh]

I can't find it over there either.  I bought mine at Lulu.  http://www.lulu.com/shop/kathy-jo-devore/workbook-level-3-language-lessons-through-literature/ebook/product-21151787.html

 

Check for special prices.  When I bought it, there was 30% off using "decktheshelf"  but there may be a different offer now.  

[Hunter]

Hey all! OP here and I have a question regarding the Reading Lessons for kand, or anyone else using that program with a student already reading (KathyJo can answer too...I just don't want to drag her away from her work :) ).

 

How do you determine which level to start with? I guess I'm confused by the TOC and sample pages in the different levels. Each level seems to teach all 75 phonograms, starting with the alphabet. However, on the BRC website it's clearly stated that each level contains different levels of the Elson Readers which makes me think that the phonograms are separated into the 3 levels, each with advancing difficulty. Did I mention that I'm confused?

 

Also, did I miss where it was stated how long each level would take a dc to work through? Is each considered a year long program?

With most Spalding type curricula, the student tests into the Ayres list. All the most common phonograms are taught at all levels, and the rarer ones are not introduced until later in the list.

 

I personally start all students at the beginning of the Ayres list. I personally use these curricula more for spelling than reading, and use the reading/copying/whatever to reinforce the spelling. I will be glossing/skipping over the early readers with some students, but will be starting all students in book 1.

[Mama2two]

I can't find it over there either.  I bought mine at Lulu.  http://www.lulu.com/shop/kathy-jo-devore/workbook-level-3-language-lessons-through-literature/ebook/product-21151787.html

 

Check for special prices.  When I bought it, there was 30% off using "decktheshelf"  but there may be a different offer now.  

 

Thank you!

 

[silver]

I can tell you about RLTL level 2, as that's what I have. It does look like all basic phonograms are included in all levels. You start by teaching the single letter ones. Then you start the spelling lists while continuing to teach the phonograms. If you're starting on level 2 (skipping level 1), you may want to teach beyond the first 26 phonograms, because the very first spelling list in level 2 uses some multi-letter phonograms.

There are 46 spelling lists in level 2. I haven't counted all of them, but it looks like they each have 10 words. If you use the suggestions of number of words per week for K-2 that is in the book, level 2 would take a Ker about a year or more. A 1st grader would finish in about 2/3 of a year. A 2nd grader would take about 1/3 of a year.

I'm starting with level 2 because my son knows his phonograms and we've done dictation with word markings before. He'll miss the words from the first level (I don't think they're repeated), but the idea behind O-G based programs is that they learn the rules through the repetition of using and applying them over  and over during the spelling lists. Some spelling programs teach spelling through memorization of words, so the specific words taught are important. This one teaches through phonograms and rules, teaching students how to apply the rules to words when spelling.

If using RLTL primarily for reading or if you've never used a phonogram based program, I'd start with level 1, as the multi-letter phonograms are underlined in the reader there, so it will help a child to begin to recognize them within words. If you'd be using it for spelling, which level would probably depend on what you've used with your child in the past. Again, if they've never done a spelling or reading program with phonograms, I'd start with level 1. If they have and they're reading fluently, then you could start with level 2 if you wanted, or you could start with level 1 to give more practice.

[SEGway]

Is the Language Lesson through Literature Level 3 workbook not an amazon?  If it is can someone link it b/c i can't find it.

I bought it on Amazon last week.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Language-Lessons-Through-Literature-Level/dp/1492109592/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387752132&sr=8-1&keywords=language+lessons+through+literature+3

 

HTH,

Sarah

[mom@shiloh]

True, the workbooks are completely optional.  I just bought it to make my life easier.

[Hunter]

Even when I don't USE workbooks, LOOKING at them helps me plan and teach with more confidence. I only don't need them when I have them. :lol:

[SEGway]

I missed the part about looking for the workbook. As was already pointed out, my link was just for the textbook. (Scrolling and scanning quickly is fun and helpful. Except when it's not.  :glare: ) Sorry!

[fourisenough]

I really like the idea of a first year language program that develops the skills of narration, poem memorization, oral composition, and copywork, but does NOT teach parts of speech.  I used and really found much good in FLL 1 with my older girls, but I'd love to NOT have to edit on the fly/skip all the sections regarding parts of speech; I just find parts of speech abstract-enough that it is best saved until 2nd grade or later.

 

Per my quick scan of the TOC this afternoon, the concepts taught in the first grade level of FLL include: names (first, middle, last), addresses, telephone numbers, family relationships, days of the week, months of the year, seasons, holidays, initials, abbreviations, titles of respect, written dates, beginning capitalization/ending punctuation, sentence definition, and types of sentences. 

 

Can anyone, who already owns a copy, confirm whether LLtL teaches each of these concepts?  The TOC covers what poem, fable and read-aloud is used with each lesson, but I didn't see where the list of language topics taught was detailed (if it was).  I love the integrated read-alouds, poetry, and fables.  I'm nearly sold on it.  I just want to make sure it covers (approximately) the same concepts.

 

Thanks in advance!

[KathyJo]

I really like the idea of a first year language program that develops the skills of narration, poem memorization, oral composition, and copywork, but does NOT teach parts of speech.  I used and really found much good in FLL 1 with my older girls, but I'd love to NOT have to edit on the fly/skip all the sections regarding parts of speech; I just find parts of speech abstract-enough that it is best saved until 2nd grade or later.

 

Per my quick scan of the TOC this afternoon, the concepts taught in the first grade level of FLL include: names (first, middle, last), addresses, telephone numbers, family relationships, days of the week, months of the year, seasons, holidays, initials, abbreviations, titles of respect, written dates, beginning capitalization/ending punctuation, sentence definition, and types of sentences. 

 

Can anyone, who already owns a copy, confirm whether LLtL teaches each of these concepts?  The TOC covers what poem, fable and read-aloud is used with each lesson, but I didn't see where the list of language topics taught was detailed (if it was).  I love the integrated read-alouds, poetry, and fables.  I'm nearly sold on it.  I just want to make sure it covers (approximately) the same concepts.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I'm responding to a PM request to answer this. I thought I should do it here in the thread in case others are wondering. :-)

 

Level 1 includes punctuation and capitalization, abbreviations, titles of respect, vowels, contractions, days of the week, the four seasons, and months of the year.

 

Level 2 includes the types of sentences, address, phone numbers, and initials.

 

HTH!

[KathyJo]

I missed this before. I have a reply from Kathy about this that I can share later today when I'm at my computer, as well as sharing my experience so far. Thank you again for starting this thread, as this was just the right thing at the right time for us.

 

If you don't get a chance to, I'll try in a bit. I have to go do dishes now.  :tongue_smilie:

[KathyJo]

Hey all!  OP here and I have a question regarding the Reading Lessons for kand, or anyone else using that program with a student already reading (KathyJo can answer too...I just don't want to drag her away from her work :) ).  

 

How do you determine which level to start with?  I guess I'm confused by the TOC and sample pages in the different levels.  Each level seems to teach all 75 phonograms, starting with the alphabet.  However, on the BRC website it's clearly stated that each level contains different levels of the Elson Readers which makes me think that the phonograms are separated into the 3 levels, each with advancing difficulty. Did I mention that I'm confused?

 

Also, did I miss where it was stated how long each level would take a dc to work through?  Is each considered a year long program?  

 

You can start at any level. However, Level 1 teaches all 75 phonograms, so Levels 2 and 3 do assume that you already know all of the phonograms.  

 

Basically, my recommendation is to start at Level 1. The program is built on practice and repetition, and you'll get the most of that by starting at the beginning. However, if you've already been doing another program that includes phonograms and analyzing spelling words with markings, Level 2 might be a better fit.

 

How long you spend in each level will depend on how many words you do each week, which will depend on your preferences and how old your child is. A seven year old second grader could complete all three levels, 1,720 words, in a year if he's doing 50 words per week. Level 1 has 480 words, which will take 32-48 weeks at 10-15 words per week.

 

Does that clear everything up?

[gerka528]

Can anyone give me some advice for my 1st and 2nd graders?  After looking at the levels they fit neatly into levels 1 and 2.  Should I do the read alouds from both levels, or just pick 1?  Which one?  It looks like a great program, but I'm not sure how to combine to make it work for us.  I really like the idea of reading the entire story, but not sure we will have time for both levels, plus it may be boring for my 1st grader to hear all of the stories again next year in level 2 if she hears me reading them to her sister this year.  Thank you for guidance!

[KathyJo]

Can anyone give me some advice for my 1st and 2nd graders?  After looking at the levels they fit neatly into levels 1 and 2.  Should I do the read alouds from both levels, or just pick 1?  Which one?  It looks like a great program, but I'm not sure how to combine to make it work for us.  I really like the idea of reading the entire story, but not sure we will have time for both levels, plus it may be boring for my 1st grader to hear all of the stories again next year in level 2 if she hears me reading them to her sister this year.  Thank you for guidance!

 

I would probably start them both in Level 1. My second grader is in Level 1, and my fourth grader is in Level 3, and I like the way this works for us.

 

My sister had three kids all in Level 1 the first year she homeschooled, the oldest of whom was in 3rd grade. The third grader was definitely ready for more, but it was a good transition for them since my niece had never done anything like copywork. This year, she's in fourth grade. My sister skipped Level 2 with her and put her into Level 3 since it's a better fit and she's reading well enough now to do her own reading. I say this to remind you that if you start them together, skipping a level later on to get a better fit for the older child would not be a problem, IF you felt it was necessary.

 

You can use audio books to deal with multiple levels, if you decide to go that route while they're still younger. 

 

HTH!

[gerka528]

Thank you!  I think I am actually leaning towards putting them both in Level 2 since we are half way through 1st and 2nd grade already.  My 1st grader can just start with shorter copy work for now and built up her stamina.  I'm very excited to get started!!

[~Victoria~]

I had been trying to piece together literature, poems, scriptures, pictures for study, and fables to use next year and then found this thread :) I am thinking about getting lltl 1 for the next year but I was wondering about what is done after each reading. I saw that Kathy takes more of a cm approach here (I haven't deeply researched the cm method) but should discussion take place? I have been incorporating wwe 1 techniques this year and feel like talking briefly about passages read is natural (or even doing narrations).

[Hunter]

The AO forum is closed down for the holiday, but they are a good resource for learning about narration. Other than on the special needs forum, they can be a bit rigid, though, about what a narration should be.

 

Rather than a "pure" AO style of narrations, I tend to use the methods in these 2 articles.

 

The 6 Steps of Narration

http://www.childlightusa.org/review/Winter2007_Review.pdf

 

Narration with Speech and Auditory Issues

http://simplycharlottemason.com/2013/09/25/narration-auditory-speech-issues/

[KathyJo]

I had been trying to piece together literature, poems, scriptures, pictures for study, and fables to use next year and then found this thread :) I am thinking about getting lltl 1 for the next year but I was wondering about what is done after each reading. I saw that Kathy takes more of a cm approach here (I haven't deeply researched the cm method) but should discussion take place? I have been incorporating wwe 1 techniques this year and feel like talking briefly about passages read is natural (or even doing narrations).

 

 

If you have a procedure that feels comfortable to you already, I say stick with what's working. :-) You can use LLTL to simplify one area without feeling like it's necessary to do it exactly like I do.

 

For us, we just read the books and do the exercises and copywork. They have other books that I have them narrate.

[FO4UR]

I had been trying to piece together literature, poems, scriptures, pictures for study, and fables to use next year and then found this thread :) I am thinking about getting lltl 1 for the next year but I was wondering about what is done after each reading. I saw that Kathy takes more of a cm approach here (I haven't deeply researched the cm method) but should discussion take place? I have been incorporating wwe 1 techniques this year and feel like talking briefly about passages read is natural (or even doing narrations).

 

WWE techniques are guided narrations with the intention of summarizing and pulling out pertinent information.  CM narrations focus more on the skill of perfect recall, attention to detail.

 

 

CM educators learn how to ask for narrations rather than depending upon scripted "lessons" that tend to act like a quiz rather than a true narration.  

 

 

Personally, I see value in both techniques and I often find a middle ground for the sake of facilitating the school day with several kids + baby.  When I read a book aloud, I usually use a CM narration.  When the child reads the book, I like to ask a *few* guiding questions for narration prompts.  (I do not quiz.  I do not ask for minor details. I ask for major themes, and the kids always include the pertinent details naturally.)

 

I've been writing narration prompts and pulling copywork and studied dictations from the books I assign the kids.  I'm going to use LLTL in addition to what I'm writing, only now I can reduce what I have to write.  I was, honestly, going to write lessons incorporating grammar too when I found Kathy Jo's books.  So we will use LLTL to focus mainly on grammar skills, and my lessons to focus more on independent written narrations and studied dictations. (I go through a process for dication...a lot like CM, but inspired by lessons my dyslexic needs.)  Im' not sure how this will work, as far as weekly scheduling goes.  We will try for LLTL on MWF, and my lessons on T/TH.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/groups/216-lltl-and-rltl-discussion/

 

I started a private Social Group if anyone wants to be added. 

[Mama2two]

I may be missing it, but i can't find the color pictures to download/print for the Level 3 picture study?

Can anyone link it for me?

[KathyJo]

I may be missing it, but i can't find the color pictures to download/print for the Level 3 picture study?

Can anyone link it for me?

 

http://www.lulu.com/shop/kathy-jo-devore/art-level-3-language-lessons-through-literature-pdf/ebook/product-21158689.html

 

:-)

[Mama2two]

http://www.lulu.com/shop/kathy-jo-devore/art-level-3-language-lessons-through-literature-pdf/ebook/product-21158689.html

 

:-)

 

Thank you, not sure how I missed that!