Homeschooling and teen sleep schedules

[momma2three]

We only have little kids, but DH and I were talking about our long-term homeschooling prospects the other day, and he brought up all the research about how teens have unique circadian rhythms, where they often literally can't fall asleep until the wee hours of the morning, and then need to sleep late.  We both remember going through periods like this, and how awful it was to lie in bed until 2am, and then have to wake up 4 hours later to get to school.

 

He was wondering if the ability to sleep in played any part in the reasons high school parents have to homeschool, and if it actually worked.  Some of the public high schools around here are pushing back their start time, and seeing test scores rise and teachers say that behavioral issues are down, homework and test scores are up (classroom tests, not standardized tests), classroom interaction is much better (especially during first period, which used to be at 7:20 and I think is now at 8:10), and all the kids just seem happier and more productive.

 

There's so much research out there these days about how important sleep is during all phases of childhood, particularly adolescence... maybe this seems crazy, but it seems like a homeschool schedule, where you can let your child sleep until 9 or 10am and then still get in a full day of schoolwork, would result in both immediate learning gains and long-term health benefits.  But I know that so many homeschooled teens also participate in clubs, sports, classes, and so on, so maybe it's all a wash and they have to get up early anyway?

 

Anyway, I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone actually in the trenches has any thoughts on the matter, and if it influences how you run your day.

 

[Ellie]

I'm not a researcher and I don't play one on television. :D But I think there could be overemphasis on the importance of sleeping late because of body rhythms. I mean, think about the history of the world. How is it that young people have had to get up with, well, everyone else so that they could do what needed to be done (especially in agrarian societies). IDK. I think there could be something to it, but then I have to ask...which schools start as early as 7:20??? I never went to school that early in my entire life. :blink:

 

I had regular bedtimes for my dc, and I let them dc sleep until they woke up, but they never slept later than 8 a.m. I didn't even try to get Official School started until 9ish. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

I've been homeschooling for 12 years, one now in college, one homeschooling high school.  My kids' sleep schedules would never play a part in our decision to homeschool.  However, homeschooling gave us the flexibility to work with their sleeping.  My oldest was a very easy kid to parent. The only disagreement we had was that she liked to stay up until 3 or 4 in the morning.  I finally relented when she was 16 or so, mostly because she was able to discuss it reasonably, convince me, and not let the change affect her school work or any other aspect of our lives. She would often sleep until noon, but she was always ready/able to get up earlier if necessary.

 

After dd left for school, my younger ds thought he'd also like to stay up late.  I have discouraged it for him, however, because he is already at home alone with her gone, and it seems best to me that he be on a schedule more in sync with me and dh.  He also easily adjusted to going to be a little earlier and getting up timely, so I figured his body is sleeping pretty naturally anyway.

 

Whatever the case, for my kids, we've tried to avoid morning activities over the years (exception is online classes) because I've kept mornings free for schoolwork. It's worked for us. Everyone's schooling experience and other activities, how it works in their family, etc. will vary.

[Hoot]

Honestly, I think more often than not it is about learned behaviors and a desire to assert one's independence and less about something that is inherently unique to teens. 

[MysteryJen]

Honestly, I think more often than not it is about learned behaviors and a desire to assert one's independence and less about something that is inherently unique to teens. 

I am not entirely sure about that. Of my five that are teens, they all started needed more sleep when they were about 13. Especially the boys. It was almost like a switch. One day they were up fairly early and the next day I was dragging them out of bed.

 

I am not saying that they can't or won't get up for jobs, sports or church. They will and they will do it on their own (my dd1 gets up every day at 4:45am). But they do need more sleep. And homeschooling has offered that flexibility for them. 

 

They are much more pleasant people when well rested. :laugh:

[Lolly]

Hsing has definitely changed my dc s schooling hours. Eldest one: I let her know what she needed to do. She usually did it in the middle of the night. Slept most of the day. Twins: had a more regular schedule. One naturally an early bird. The other not so much, but their swim schedule kept her using more normalish hours. Both did usually take a nap after morning practices though.(Had to get up around 4 to make the hour drive to practice in the morning.) Ds, I've tried to put on a fairly normal schedule for my own sake. It doesn't work. He will normally be going sometime between 9 and 12. His stomach eventually gets him up. I don't have much luck doing it myself. He still manages to get his work done.

[OneStepAtATime]

I think it depends on the person.  There may very well be some sort of physiological experience going on during the teen years that means the bulk of them do better waking up later and staying up later, but I think it still depends on the person.  My children were in school for several years.  We started homeschooling last year and I tried to keep them both on the same schedule and starting at the same time and similar to school so they would be in sync with school friends.  It was nerve racking, but we did it.

 

 However, my daughter (12 last year, 13 this year) finally expressed how frustrated she felt that she had to wait to start school.  She was actually waking up by 6am every morning and then having to wait 3 hours to start.  I switched things around so she starts school by 630am, while I'm having tea.  If she has questions, I am there.  She is usually done with most chores and all the tough school stuff by 930, when her brother gets up.  He and I read together while he eats breakfast, and his sister is wrapping up whatever still needs to be done, then his sister goes off to do art projects, practice her music, etc. while I work with him on his school stuff.  We are usually done with everything but science experiments/activities, by noon.  We take a break at lunch, then as a group we do science or a history project or whatever else we need to do together, along with remaining chores, and anything we planned to do away from the house.  

 

Once I let the day flow that way, my daughter was far more motivated and accomplishes task much faster now, and so does my son.  I am a morning person, too, so I understand where she was coming from.  I think faster and more efficiently in the morning and always have, even when I worked late night shifts in broadcast tv.  When my daughter was in school, by the time school actually got started in any meaningful way it was nearly 9am and she was already needing down time.  Now that she is home, she can move through everything challenging when her brain is functioning at its best.  She loves it.  

 

My husband and my son function much better at night.  For my son, he does projects in the evening hours in his own room after everyone has gone to bed because that is when he thinks best.  We do keep it reasonable.  Lights out by 11pm, not 2 or 3 in the morning so he isn't completely out of sync with the rest of the family...

 

In other words, we each have our own rhythm.  We can survive on a schedule that does not take our natural rhythms into account, but we tend to thrive when we CAN follow those rhythms.

 

Is that a reason to homeschool?  I think it could be a contributing factor, but I really don't think it should be the basis for the decision since there is so much involved in homeschooling and there are pros and cons on both sides.  And after all, when kids get to be adults, they may not have a choice in the work schedule they get.  Teaching them to be able to adapt to the schedule that has been handed them is also important....

[elegantlion]

As a reason to homeschool? No. As a benefit? Yes. We've homeschooled since first grade. Ds and I are not morning people. Getting him ready for prek and K was a nightmare. So that first year sleeping was a benefit. We still started by 9. 

 

For teens, I do think proper sleep is important, for adults too. Ds can sleep 9-10 hours on some occasions and then within a week really need 12-13 hours a sleep, usually during a growth spurt. As a pre-teen he'd fall asleep reading during the day during a few growth spurts. 

 

At 16, he's pretty well aware of his best working hours, which are late afternoon and late evening. We go with it. We start school about 1 on most days. Am I concerned he'll never get up for an 8 am job? No. He probably will never willingly take an 8am class. 

 

I don't think it's all conditioning to let kids sleep. I think it's conditioning to think we all need to rise and be productive during the same hours. My dad worked a second shirt job all his career. he rarely got up before 10am. My best working hours are 10am to 2pm, pretty traditional. I also crash completely by 10:30 on most nights. I've been that way since I was a kid. I used to just fall asleep at 10pm even when we were out. I also do best with a biphasic sleep cycle, which means I nap almost every day. 

 

I really think society would be better served by paying attention to our individual productive times and sleep habits. Teens need more sleep. Not everyone is going to work 9 to 5. I do think we can be conditioned to arise when needed. I once worked two jobs, had to be up at 4am and worked until 6pm. I never used an alarm clock. I'm not a morning person and it only took about a week to get used to getting up that early. I'd rather let my teen sleep and be productive on his natural schedule and show him how to condition himself to work a regular schedule when needed, instead of ignoring his natural cycle. 

 

I do tease my son that he'll be late night tech support, but he really does sleep odd hours. I'm more concerned with him working during his productive hours than appearing to have a "normal" schedule. 

 

A regular school schedule would detrimental to ds' education. Could he adjust, sure, and by college I expect he will. If not the community college here has night classes that run until 10:30 - they'd be a good fit. The irregular pattern of growth spurts would also make him function less in a regular school. My ds is going to shorter and smaller than a lot of boys, I can't imagine how tired and foggy some of these guys feel, the ones that have a lot of growing to do. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Honestly, I think more often than not it is about learned behaviors and a desire to assert one's independence and less about something that is inherently unique to teens. 

 

That is not what the research shows.

[Joker]

We won't be homeschooling through high school, but if we did we wouldn't be starting before 9am. That's was our start time when I did home school

through elementary school.

 

The high schools in my district don't start until 9:15am.

[elegantlion]

That is not what the research shows.

 

:iagree:

 

And here is an article that discuss why teens need more sleep. 

 

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/teens-and-sleep

[Hoot]

I am not entirely sure about that. Of my five that are teens, they all started needed more sleep when they were about 13. Especially the boys. It was almost like a switch. One day they were up fairly early and the next day I was dragging them out of bed.

 

I am not saying that they can't or won't get up for jobs, sports or church. They will and they will do it on their own (my dd1 gets up every day at 4:45am). But they do need more sleep. And homeschooling has offered that flexibility for them. 

 

They are much more pleasant people when well rested. :laugh:

 

I don't mean to say that teens don't need more sleep.  It makes sense that they need more sleep given the changes going on in their bodies and the sheer amount of growth that they do.  However, I took the original post to be more about teens going to bed far later and as such, sleeping in later in the morning.  These are two separate issues, in my opinion.  If one needs more sleep, the logical solution, to me, is to first go to bed earlier.  My son is 14 and I noted that he has started needing more sleep within the last year.  He goes to bed earlier than most teens and gets up naturally anywhere between 5 and 7:30 every morning.  When he goes to bed later, and gets up later his mood and mental functions are both negatively impacted.

[BlsdMama]

However, I took the original post to be more about teens going to bed far later and as such, sleeping in later in the morning. These are two separate issues, in my opinion. If one needs more sleep, the logical solution, to me, is to first go to bed earlier.

This.

 

We have a 17yo and a14yo, both of whom are expected to be up and functional by 7:00-7:30. I think we are also impacted by natural light. One is naturally more groggy without sunlight. Travel through the PNW and take note of the coffee carts everywhere. ( For those of you who are from the PNW, the rest of the country cannot picture the sheer number of coffee shops and carts ya'all are accustomed to, lol.)

 

However, it's difficult to differentiate between habit, and suitability. Studies have also shown that the hours before midnight give us the most rested sleep so kid that are staying up late aren't going to wake up wide eyed and bushy tailed. My 14yo who has been growing a lot has needed more sleep. He sometimes takes naps in the afternoon if he's wiped out.

 

We're early to bed, early to rise folks. I'm not naturally this way, but it is something I chose to cultivate. And the way to begin a rising early habit is NOT by getting up early, but by going to bed early. You'd be surprised how you naturally wake up after eight hours of sleep if you went to bed by nine. I thought I was a night owl for years.

[elegantlion]

  When he goes to bed later, and gets up later his mood and mental functions are both negatively impacted.

 

And I notice an opposite affect. If I make my son go to bed earlier and get up earlier (giving the same amount of sleeping hours), he's still unable to function well until late morning. He's also a grumpy bear. We've experimented with a lot of bedtimes, start times, waking times over the years. Allowing him to follow his natural cycle has provided us with more productive working hours compared to anything else. 

[Lolly]

Also, some teens simply cannot go to sleep if they do go to bed earlier. That is true for no matter how long their schedules are adjusted or how hard they attempt to make the switch. Their body clocks are wired to go to sleep later in the evening. It is not just a matter of habit.

[Teachin'Mine]

In college students choose their class schedules according to what works best for them.  As homeschoolers, there's no reason most of our students can't do the same.  High school is all about prep for college, so allowing them to set up their schedules, including sleep, is good prep for college.  I can't imagine there are many who chose to homeschool exclusively for the flexible sleep schedule, but as has been mentioned, it sure is a benefit.  :D

[Lolly]

In college students choose their class schedules according to what works best for them.  As homeschoolers, there's no reason most of our students can't do the same.  High school is all about prep for college, so allowing them to set up their schedules, including sleep, is good prep for college.  I can't imagine there are many who chose to homeschool exclusively for the flexible sleep schedule, but as has been mentioned, it sure is a benefit.  :D

 

 

My dc are finding that some colleges do not even offer many 8 a.m. classes. Both students and teachers seem to shy away from them, so they have simply stopped offering them. (My early bird was not very happy about that.)

[elegantlion]

My dc are finding that some colleges do not even offer many 8 a.m. classes. Both students and teachers seem to shy away from them, so they have simply stopped offering them. (My early bird was not very happy about that.)

 

My son will be thrilled to hear that. 

[Barbara H]

Sleep deprivation is a real issue for teenagers and yes, homeschooling can help with that.

 

Research: "The study concluded that more than half (55%) of teens who were homeschooled got the optimal amount of sleep per week, compared to just 24.5% of those who attend public and private schools. Conversely, 44.5% of public and private school teens got insufficient sleep during the school week, compared to only 16.3% of homeschooled teens."

 

As far as the late night body rhythms the one caution I see with that is that teenagers also often struggle with screen habits. Anyone who has read anything about insomnia knows screens are a huge issue for many of us. I'm a bit cautious about concluding that any teen who stays up late must have a body that needs to operate that way. With sufficient daytime exercise and no screens beyond early evening, the system may work a little differently.

[regentrude]

In college students choose their class schedules according to what works best for them. 

Just wanted to point out that this is not always possible. Some classes may be only offered at 8am (I teach one of those.), and for some multi-section classes, the 8am section may be the only one with seats left - or the 7pm lab section (which does not work well for a morning person). Students have to make sure to get their requirements in - they can't really be picky about personal preferences.

And many schools simply do not have the luxury of eliminating the 8am time slot because otherwise they would not have enough rooms available for classes.

[regentrude]

As far as the late night body rhythms the one caution I see with that is that teenagers also often struggle with screen habits. Anyone who has read anything about insomnia knows screens are a huge issue for many of us. I'm a bit cautious about concluding that any teen who stays up late must have a body that needs to operate that way. With sufficient daytime exercise and no screens beyond early evening, the system may work a little differently.

 

This. It would be interesting to see studies that are controlled for behavioral factors and see whether teens with no access to evening social activities or electronic media show the same tendencies.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Freshman year I had an 8am class.  Looking back, I think I was nuts, but I was also 18, so there's that.  I'm a firm believer in the changing body rhythms of teens, and there are a few districts who have acted on the research.  Everything DW sees in her district only confirms the data.  We seem to be in a good place now with a day running approximately 9-3, which used to run 8-2.

[Teachin'Mine]

Just wanted to point out that this is not always possible. Some classes may be only offered at 8am (I teach one of those.), and for some multi-section classes, the 8am section may be the only one with seats left - or the 7pm lab section (which does not work well for a morning person). Students have to make sure to get their requirements in - they can't really be picky about personal preferences.

And many schools simply do not have the luxury of eliminating the 8am time slot because otherwise they would not have enough rooms available for classes.

 

True.  Sometimes the student doesn't have a choice, but often they do.  Ideally a college, or at least a community college which has a broad range of students, offers both the 8AM and the 7PM classes, and lots in between.   Large community colleges, which limit classes to a small size, have to offer many sections of the more popular and required courses.  My dd isn't getting up late by any stretch, but she is able to be flexible and have a more relaxed morning than if she had to get up for an 8AM class.  The only downside to this flexibility has been that standardized tests are given so incredibly early and not the ideal time for someone who's used to a later schedule.  

[Lolly]

Sleep deprivation is a real issue for teenagers and yes, homeschooling can help with that.

 

Research: "The study concluded that more than half (55%) of teens who were homeschooled got the optimal amount of sleep per week, compared to just 24.5% of those who attend public and private schools. Conversely, 44.5% of public and private school teens got insufficient sleep during the school week, compared to only 16.3% of homeschooled teens."

 

As far as the late night body rhythms the one caution I see with that is that teenagers also often struggle with screen habits. Anyone who has read anything about insomnia knows screens are a huge issue for many of us. I'm a bit cautious about concluding that any teen who stays up late must have a body that needs to operate that way. With sufficient daytime exercise and no screens beyond early evening, the system may work a little differently.

The tendency for teens to want to go to bed later and sleep in predates screens. It definitely predates the computer habits of recent times.

[KathyBC]

I'm not a researcher and I don't play one on television. :D But I think there could be overemphasis on the importance of sleeping late because of body rhythms. I mean, think about the history of the world. How is it that young people have had to get up with, well, everyone else so that they could do what needed to be done (especially in agrarian societies). IDK. I think there could be something to it, but then I have to ask...which schools start as early as 7:20??? I never went to school that early in my entire life. :blink:

 

I had regular bedtimes for my dc, and I let them dc sleep until they woke up, but they never slept later than 8 a.m. I didn't even try to get Official School started until 9ish. 

 

My oldest has to be at the bus stop at 7:30 a.m. And he's one of the later kids. School starts at 8:20.

[KathyBC]

And after all, when kids get to be adults, they may not have a choice in the work schedule they get.  Teaching them to be able to adapt to the schedule that has been handed them is also important....

 

Eh. I know a few truck drivers who routinely get up before 2 a.m. I don't think anyone made them 'practice' for adulthood during their teens. I think the need to eat will probably be motivation enough for our kids to put up with whatever work schedule they end up getting.

[Julie in MN]

I found it worthwhile to evaluate sleep needs periodically.  I think there were months of growth and months that were more stable.

 

Homeschoolers don't have 45 minute bus rides or lots of other time-wasters, so we usually schooled around 9:30-3:30, with listening activities during lunch, up until about 11th grade when college courses brought their own schedules (calculus at 7:35 this year, and it wasn't a difficult transition for my youngest).

 

then I have to ask...which schools start as early as 7:20??? I never went to school that early in my entire life. :blink:

 

My grandson's K-6 school starts at 7:45; his bus picks him up at 7, as he's early on the route.  Over the years, this was brought down from a start time closer to 9 (which my kids enjoyed) due to the influence of daycare, because it was better to get kids in school when they were up anyways, and freshly alert. 

 

In our district, we tried to pass a later start for high schoolers but it was parents who objected.  They wanted their kids to have time for sports and jobs.  However, there was a need to accommodate a "zero hour" for those wanting to take 7 credits (such as band & choir students), so there had to be early and earlier.  The neighboring school district has more of those kids - zero hour there is at 7:25.

 

Julie

[KathyBC]

 

My grandson's K-6 school starts at 7:45; his bus picks him up at 7, as he's early on the route.  Over the years, this was brought down from a start time closer to 9 (which my kids enjoyed) due to the influence of daycare, because it was better to get kids in school when they were up anyways, and freshly alert. 

 

This was my impression as well - school's start earlier so parents can get to work on time.

[elegantlion]

High school in our town starts at 7:45. The elementary school bus comes by at 7am, I don't know what time they start. I am in a small town, so it's not a long commute either. 

[Lolly]

My oldest has to be at the bus stop at 7:30 a.m. And he's one of the later kids. School starts at 8:20.

 

The bus comes through our neighborhood between 6:15 and 6:30. My niece and nephew are picked up in another state at a similar time each morning. I can't imagine having a kid ready to go at that point in the morning! School here starts at 8. Niece and nephew start at 8 and 8:20 (one school is K-3/the other 4-6).

[Teachin'Mine]

Many school districts use one bus fleet for all the students in K through 12, so the pick-up and drop off times have to be staggered.   Many districts schedule the high school students for the first shift as it's often dark outside still at the time they're picked up, and they don't want the elementary kids on the streets in the dark.  I remember reading about a school district which changed to picking up the teens after they dropped off the elementary students and they noticed a huge improvement in the teens.  I don't remember if the improvement was seen in attendance, behavior, academic, or what.  I would imagine they were a lot less tired during the day. Unless if there's an outside class, work, extra-curricular or family schedule which has to be taken into consideration, I can't imagine why we wouldn't allow our teen to keep a schedule that works for her.  There's a big difference between being up at 7AM or so and having to be on a school bus at 7AM.   When internships, work, or an early class require earlier hours, that's what an alarm clock is made for.

[OneStepAtATime]

Eh. I know a few truck drivers who routinely get up before 2 a.m. I don't think anyone made them 'practice' for adulthood during their teens. I think the need to eat will probably be motivation enough for our kids to put up with whatever work schedule they end up getting.

Agreed.  But there is a homeschooling family in our area that never set a single schedule.  When their eldest went into the workforce out of highschool, he got quite a shock when he had to do shifts that didn't work with his normal pattern of sleeping and schooling, etc.  It really, really didn't work out very well and he was pretty resentful of his parents for not preparing him better.  He was also pretty resentful of his boss for not catering to him.  

 

I was just pointing out that working within our normal body rhythms has worked great for my family, but I also think that helping kids, especially teens, to see that sometimes schedules aren't going to be just about when they work best is also an important life skill, IMHO.

[KathyBC]

I have to wonder what the child's wage-earning parent did for a living. Did he live in a bubble? When did he see his relatives/neighbours/friend's parents going to work? I suspect his resentment towards both his parents and his boss can be laid right at his own doorstep. But hey, I wasn't there, what do I know.

 

 

ETA: I was public and private-schooled and I really hated working night shifts for a short time in my twenties. Can't say I blamed anyone else over it, though.

[Mom22ns]

The need for sleep was one of the reasons that my competitive gymnast wanted to homeschool. She went straight from school to gym and got home from the gym at 8:00. All she had time to do was eat, shower and go to bed. We knew that as she got older and the homework load got heavier, that something was going to have to give. 

 

That said, we don't start school late. Ds starts at 6:00-6:30 am and dd starts at 7:30-8:00. That same heavy extra-curricular involvement means they need to be done by early afternoon and high school takes us 6-8 hours a day.

 

As far as research, sleep needs and rhythms, so far neither of my kids have changed the sleep patterns or needs as teens. I didn't either. I think it is a combination of nature and nurture at work like most things.

[TechWife]

 I think there could be something to it, but then I have to ask...which schools start as early as 7:20??? I never went to school that early in my entire life. :blink:

 

 

The public high school here starts at 7:25. The high school bus comes through our neighborhood at 6:30. 

[Mom22ns]

In our district the schools 5th-12th grades stagger start from 7:25-7:35. K-4 starts at 8:30.

 

ETA: The high school bus picks up for our road at 6:10. 

[Finnella]

I'm not a researcher and I don't play one on television. :D But I think there could be overemphasis on the importance of sleeping late because of body rhythms. I mean, think about the history of the world. How is it that young people have had to get up with, well, everyone else so that they could do what needed to be done (especially in agrarian societies). IDK. I think there could be something to it, but then I have to ask...which schools start as early as 7:20??? I never went to school that early in my entire life. :blink:

 

I had regular bedtimes for my dc, and I let them dc sleep until they woke up, but they never slept later than 8 a.m. I didn't even try to get Official School started until 9ish. 

 

I didn't, but the public high schools in my district start that early. With busing added in, my older son had to be on a bus by 6 AM. In our district's case, it's all because of bus schedules, so the same bus can make at least three trips. The two years my older boy did this were awful, but the school board recently discontinued an experiment which allowed two high schools to start later.

 

I have my younger son, age 14, up at 8 AM. He doesn't like it, but he's got a much better deal than his older brother did.

[katilac]

It's a benefit for us, but not a reason we home school (the overall amount of time spent away is a reason, but not the specific times). 

 

The high school closest to us starts at 7.20 and I can't imagine how early some of those poor kids must catch the bus. 

 

We are fairly relaxed about schedules. We prefer an early-ish start, say from 8 to 9, but definitely have periods of time when we start later. It seems to go in cycles for us. 

 

My kids definitely don't like working in the evenings; that's a rarity for us. I don't think the majority of teens do well with a super-late schedule - my personal observations have been that they just don't get nearly as much done as they think they do. Yes, there are exceptions, but most of them are not truly willing to truly give up the majority of their evening hours to do schoolwork.  Knowing their schedules, I can routinely predict which people are going to be complaining about being behind by October or November.

 

Again, it can work, but I think people need to be brutally honest with themselves about whether it is working. 

[rlugbill]

My dd was homeschooled grades 1-7, then went to private school that started at 8:05 in 8th grade, then did homeschool in 9th grade and now is in 10th grade at public hs that starts at 7:20.  There is a big difference in being able to sleep in.  I think that is a big advantage in homeschooling.  I have noticed better behavior if she is well-rested, better able to focus, less likely to get sick, and just a generally better attitude.  We actually let her take the day off school today because she was so tired and needed to sleep in. 

 

And she says that the kids in school who don't do well aren't acting out- they are sleeping in class or not coming to class.  We call them slackers, but I think they are just tired teens.

 

I have read the sleep research and I highly recommend that all parents do so.  I highly recommend 1. having white noise in the child's room, such as a fan. and 2. having something very dark over the windows so the room is totally dark- completely dark and no little lights from clocks or anything on in the room.  Dark and white noise make for a much higher quality sleep.  It's not just the quantity- it's the quality of the sleep.  And don't stay up late, even on weekends- regular bedtime.  And relaxing activities before bedtime- no screen time after 8 pm.

 

It's crazy how early school is for teens.  As parents, our number one priority is our child's health- higher priority than academics, IMHO.  So, sleep should be a priority over school.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I definitely see ( so far) that our kids need more sleep when hormones are raging.  I saw a talk show a few years ago ( during our 2 year Dish episode) and  a panel of Doctors who agreed that Teens and even younger kids need about an extra hour of sleep in the morning.

 

 That being the case, I allowed our first son to sleep in for a few years.

 

I also have a teen who is a BEAR without sleeping in until 10 at least.  

[Tokyomarie]

This. It would be interesting to see studies that are controlled for behavioral factors and see whether teens with no access to evening social activities or electronic media show the same tendencies.

 

I would like to see this, too. When we lived in Japan during our older two children's pre-teen and early teen years, we had limited screen time, the internet wasn't yet such a draw, social media per se did not exist, and children didn't carry cell phones. More importantly, there were NO social activities at night for my kids to attend. Though we ate dinner on the later side, everything that happened after 6pm was geared towards winding down for the night. My girls never struggled in a major way with rising on the earlier side- though we didn't have ultra early rising times.

 

After we moved to the USA, we had to deal with evening activities multiple nights a week, internet use mushroomed, and due to my dh's preferences, TV/Video time mushroomed. Even so, I think perhaps because their systems were conditioned, my girls never fell into the super late rising times.

 

My son, however, has grown up with all of this evening stimulation and at about 9yrs of age began to have difficulty falling asleep at night. He now has a certified delayed sleep phase syndrome disorder. Thankfully, he has gotten to the point where he can get up in the morning if he has to, which is a major improvement over 3 years ago. However, I have often wondered if this would have been a problem had he grown up under conditions closer to what my girls had in their younger years.

[Tokyomarie]

Just wanted to point out that this is not always possible. Some classes may be only offered at 8am (I teach one of those.), and for some multi-section classes, the 8am section may be the only one with seats left - or the 7pm lab section (which does not work well for a morning person). Students have to make sure to get their requirements in - they can't really be picky about personal preferences.

And many schools simply do not have the luxury of eliminating the 8am time slot because otherwise they would not have enough rooms available for classes.

 

It is challenging when the student gets stuck with attending evening classes and then has to turn around and be back at school the next morning for an 8am class. My son's IT classes mostly meet at night (6-10pm). Next semester there are only 2 Calc III sections and one of them conflicts with the IT classes, so guess what? He (and *I* if he doesn't have his license yet or the weather is too snowy) get to deal with getting home at 10:45pm at night and turning around and leaving at 7am so he can get there in time for his 8am class.

 

We had the same schedule last winter. Ds seems to be dealing with it ok. Youth has its advantages. My 50 something body isn't coping with that schedule so well, though!

 

PS: I commuted for my first two years of college. One semester I had that evening lab class with an 8am class the next day. I was SO glad my grandma lived right off campus and I could crash at her apartment on those nights instead of driving 30 minutes back home.