I don't get the Miley Cyrus debacle from VMA's.

[Janie Grace]

Hah..no.

 

There are some people who get off on dressing up like fuzzy animals and well...you know.   

 

I didn't know that existed either....

This is confusing on so many levels, not the least of which is mechanics. 

[Parrothead]

Hah..no.

 

There are some people who get off on dressing up like fuzzy animals and well...you know.

 

I didn't know that existed either....

Wow. I wouldn't have thought there are enough people who like that sort of thing to make a pair. The world is much more diverse than most people (myself included) realize.

[Parrothead]

This is confusing on so many levels, not the least of which is mechanics.

I imagine the suits have velcro in the appropriate places.

[Snickerdoodle]

Okie dokie then.   lol

[myfunnybunch]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that appears to be exactly what she did. I just don't think she's enough of a performer to pull it off.

 

I agree. 

 

And if she'd really taken the time to focus on substance instead of flash, and doing well what she is talented at instead of "breaking out" and changing her image, we wouldn't have seen whatever that was supposed to be.

 

One must be incredibly self-aware and not take oneself too seriously to pull off that kind of outrageous. I don't think she's taken the time or developed the maturity and chutzpah to be there. I honestly don't think it's her niche, but she doesn't know that (yet? maybe never?).

 

Cat

[trulycrabby]

If Miley had turned out to be an amazing twerking genius, then I would have respected her performance, but she was just so bad in the singing and dancing aspect that all I coukd do was cringe. I didn't watch much of Thicke, but to me it seemed like he was slightly horrified that he was involved in such a train wreck.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

Since I don't have to watch her, and she's not forcefully piped into my TV or my router, and she's breaking any laws, I don't care.  The only reason I'm on this thread is I don't understand why some others who share the same lack of appreciation would even worry about what she does.

I doubt that anyone is actually worried and losing sleep over it except for perhaps her family.  The main reason this act is even in my consciousness is because it was all over the news last night when we turned it on to see what was happening in the world.  

[ErinE]

Well gee...yeah...what is it?!

 

While traveling DH was booked in the same hotel as a furries convention. People dressed as bears were kicked out for very public displays of affection.

[Lady Florida.]

I think there are two types of people who didn't like her performance.

There are those who think, "OMG! That was shocking, scandalous, and won't someone think of the children!" I agree that those people should not be watching the VMA's, because shocking people is part and parcel of that awards show. I don't watch the VMA's anymore because 1) I don't have cable, and 2) I'm old. However, I do sometimes watch snippets or whole performances online in the days that follow. If I was worried about being shocked, I wouldn't even do that. 

The other type thinks the performance was all wrong for Miley Cyrus. We feel embarrassed for her not because she's supposed to be a goody-goody ex-Disney star, but because she doesn't know how to pull it off. She doesn't have the talent or the sex appeal to pull it off, so it ends up looking really awkward. Most of my friends and I fall in this category.
 

 

I do know people discussing the Russian oppression of people in the LBGTQ community, the situation in Syria, climate change, the new health care laws that are beginning to affect most of us, the economic crises across the globe, and many other important news stories. Most of them are the same people who are talking about Miley's performance.  Knowing what's really important doesn't mean we can't also discuss entertainment and entertainers. 

[Word Nerd]

For millions of people, private behavior will inspire public policy, formal and informal, that will continue to rationalize a social, and self-imposed, degree of disgrace for women who have the audacity to enjoy nonconventional sexual practices guilt-free.

Really? How would this minor flap that everyone will forget about in a week lead to all that?

[PeacefulChaos]

I saw this and thought is was pretty funny and accurate.

 

Not for children or the faint of heart.

 

And you probably need to have seen her video first to get this.

 

 

Hysterical.  Especially the first half-two/thirds of it (before 'billy ray').  :lol:

[WishboneDawn]

Just Google furries and fuzzies. It's a complex subculture, not all sexual in nature.

Ha. Not what I thought at all. I was thinking, because they're all bears, that pedobear was the inspiration.

[Aelwydd]

On this, you and I agree. Interestingly, much of the U.S. is hopelessly tuned into this... soap opera? ...falling star? ...Schadenfreude? CNN's top stories revolve around Miley Cyrus, above the wildfires in Yosemite threatening the water supply of the city of San Francisco, above what's going on in Syria, above the hostile oppression of LGBTQ by law in Russia. The fact is, this is news across the country. People are talking about it, and what they're talking about is Miley Cyrus acting like a slut in public, Miley Cyrus threatens American values of decency and innocence, Miley Cyrus must be depressed, surely no one in their right minds would hire a choreographer to create that piece.

 

For you and I it may be The End, but for millions of girls across the country, their mothers are redoubling their efforts to prevent any potential loss of innocence in their little girls, little girls who should maintain a childlike interpretation of the world until they are 18, at which time they should be fully capable if ignoring the dark, evil world and exist within the safety of the wagon circle of approved people. For millions of people, private behavior will inspire public policy, formal and informal, that will continue to rationalize a social, and self-imposed, degree of disgrace for women who have the audacity to enjoy nonconventional sexual practices guilt-free. The fact that millions of people  feel justified in stepping in as a parental figure and reprimand the moral implications of the behavior of a woman doing her job contributes to the kind of culture that addresses women as constantly in need of supervision and authority. Good on Miley Cyrus for sticking her tongue out at that, I say.

 

Very well said.  Thank you for putting into words the "ick" feeling I couldn't quite tease out into conscious thought.

 

[MommaOfalotta]

I haven't read the other replies but:

 

It was a publicity stunt, which evidently worked seeing as how EVERYONE I KNOW (and all over the press) is talking about it.

 

It was disgusting and I was pretty embarrassed. She made a hot fool out of herself.

 

I think she was trying to show the world she isn't Hannah Montana anymore. We get it, Miley. But I think she was trying way too hard, and it showed.

 

It was just a hot mess.

 

This is why we don't have cable. I had to youtube it just to see what all of the fuss was about. I've been shocked by performances in the past and no one seemed to care about those... Like Adam Lambert a couple of years ago? That was on a family channel.. maybe CBS or ABC, can't remember.

 

ETA: The foam hand. That was the worst of it. I just think of that as being totally immature and overdone. Like... stop, Miley. Just.. stop. I feel like the ONLY point of her performance was to shock the audience and there wasn't any other thought or planning involved. She just went out on stage and did anything she could think of doing that was extremely sexual. Which resulted in her doing the same thing over and over. The "twerking" and the tongue, and the foam hand. She tried too hard. I was embarrassed for her.

[ErinE]

The other type thinks the performance was all wrong for Miley Cyrus. We feel embarrassed for her not because she's supposed to be a goody-goody ex-Disney star, but because she doesn't know how to pull it off. She doesn't have the talent or the sex appeal to pull it off, so it ends up looking really awkward. Most of my friends and I fall in this category.

 

The ladies from Alabama State who danced with Drake were far more talented and s*xy than Miley. Miley was awkward; the Stingettes were beautiful. I'd much rather have seen the whole performance with just the Stingettes and no Miley (or teddy bears). I felt the same way when Madonna danced with Southern University during the Super Bowl. Their talent upstaged Madonna and made the pop star look dated. No skin color has the claim to particular dance movements, but many dancers from HBCs have a style that doesn't get showcased often and I wish they weren't used to prop up bad performances.

[WishboneDawn]

On this, you and I agree. Interestingly, much of the U.S. is hopelessly tuned into this... soap opera? ...falling star? ...Schadenfreude? CNN's top stories revolve around Miley Cyrus, above the wildfires in Yosemite threatening the water supply of the city of San Francisco, above what's going on in Syria, above the hostile oppression of LGBTQ by law in Russia. The fact is, this is news across the country. People are talking about it, and what they're talking about is Miley Cyrus acting like a slut in public, Miley Cyrus threatens American values of decency and innocence, Miley Cyrus must be depressed, surely no one in their right minds would hire a choreographer to create that piece.

 

For you and I it may be The End, but for millions of girls across the country, their mothers are redoubling their efforts to prevent any potential loss of innocence in their little girls, little girls who should maintain a childlike interpretation of the world until they are 18, at which time they should be fully capable if ignoring the dark, evil world and exist within the safety of the wagon circle of approved people. For millions of people, private behavior will inspire public policy, formal and informal, that will continue to rationalize a social, and self-imposed, degree of disgrace for women who have the audacity to enjoy nonconventional sexual practices guilt-free. The fact that millions of people feel justified in stepping in as a parental figure and reprimand the moral implications of the behavior of a woman doing her job contributes to the kind of culture that addresses women as constantly in need of supervision and authority. Good on Miley Cyrus for sticking her tongue out at that, I say.

I think a lot of us actually didn't think she was doing her job. Her singing was shaky, her dancing was a train wreck and what could have been an interesting and provocactive act fell flat because of it.

 

If the bears were meant to be versions of pedo bear and this was an act by a former child star AND she performed it like a seasoned and talented performer should be able to, then it really might have sparked some interesting discussion

[Catwoman]

Perosnally, I was more disgusted with Robin Thicke. :(

I don't like him either. He is not sexy, but he thinks he is.

 

I don't find Robin Thicke to be attractive, either. It's less about his looks than it is about his arrogance. i have seen a few interviews with him, and all he talks about is how great he is in bed and how he gives his wife so many org*sms in one night that they number in the double digits. :rolleyes:

 

So right away I started wondering what Academy Award-winning actress he was married to... ;)

 

But I have to say that I rarely even glanced at his face in his performance at the VMAs because I was too busy thinking about how incredibly tragic his outfit was. :svengo:

[Joanne]

I don't think that is what nmoira was saying.... But anyhow I basically agree.  If MTV generally shocks and offends you why in heck would you expect anything else from that show?  They have been doing that for years.

 

I might have been shocked and offended without the nuttiness.  LOL

 

I guess stuff like that is my guilty pleasure.  I love seeing what these crazy performers come up with.

 

MTV does not typicall shock or offend me. Miley's performance did not, either.

 

It was a poor performance. She brings nothing to the table (voice, dance, energy) that can salvage or transcend a cheap (in every context) and poorly informed, poorly executed stunt.

[Lady Florida.]

I don't find Robin Thicke to be attractive, either. It's less about his looks than it is about his arrogance. i have seen a few interviews with him, and all he talks about is how great he is in bed and how he gives his wife so many org*sms in one night that they number in the double digits. :rolleyes:

First I thought,

 

So right away I started wondering what Academy Award-winning actress he was married to... ;)

But then I read this and went,   :smilielol5:

[sparrow]

I thought the teddy bears were an allusion to pedophilia. Am I wrong?

 

I didn't know anything about Robin Thicke other than his song Blurred Lines, which I didn't even know all the lyrics to, but found myself humming along to in the car several times. Anyway, apparently there is some controversy as to whether the song is about date rape.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/08/08/is-blurred-lines-a-rapey-song/

 

 

I saw the word "rapey" in the URL and was thinking to myself, "Gosh, I really don't like that word at ALL."  I didn't realize that was basically what the article was about!

 

So, yeah, I don't consider myself any "wave" of feminist, but I really do not like the term "rapey" and hope it goes away. Soon.

[Erin]

I just feel this overwhelming sense of sadness. 

 

That poor kid needs a dad to love her enough to say, "Sweetheart, don't act like that in public.  You deserve more than what you're advertising for..."   :(

Usually, there's only one reason a young woman ever acts like this and that's because she's not secure enough in herself without being trampy.   And I really hate to see this young woman, who has an ear of millions, demonstrating that it's OK...

[myfunnybunch]

 

For you and I it may be The End, but for millions of girls across the country, their mothers are redoubling their efforts to prevent any potential loss of innocence in their little girls, little girls who should maintain a childlike interpretation of the world until they are 18, at which time they should be fully capable if ignoring the dark, evil world and exist within the safety of the wagon circle of approved people. For millions of people, private behavior will inspire public policy, formal and informal, that will continue to rationalize a social, and self-imposed, degree of disgrace for women who have the audacity to enjoy nonconventional sexual practices guilt-free. The fact that millions of people  feel justified in stepping in as a parental figure and reprimand the moral implications of the behavior of a woman doing her job contributes to the kind of culture that addresses women as constantly in need of supervision and authority. Good on Miley Cyrus for sticking her tongue out at that, I say.

 

I would agree with much of this if there had been anything remotely sensual about that performance.

 

There wasn't. It was clumsy. A couple times she looked like she'd forgotten what she was supposed to be doing with that foam finger, then "Oh yeah!" remembered at the last second. It made the performance awkward and weird, rather than shocking and outrageous. The performance simply wasn't convincing or authentic. 

 

If anything, that kind of performance causes more harm than good, because it was so reminiscent of a young girl publicly trying on "nonconventional" behaviors because it's expected by others, not because it's something authentic for her. There's no freedom or art in that.

 

Besides, I hardly think these millions of girls mothers' are redoubling their efforts to keep them safe in reaction to this video. The folks who are that concerned about their daughters' wagon circle safety aren't watching the VMA in the first place, and the hullabaloo over the video is just reconfirming their already-existing beliefs and practices.

 

Cat

[regentrude]

Pure genius from a PR POV.

I do not even HAVE a TV. I do not like pop music. I have never watched Hannah Montana. I have no clue what her music sounds like.

But thanks to all the public outrage on forums and facebook, I now know the name Miley Cyrus.

They could not have planned it better - the last one crawling out from under a rock just now will have heard her name.

 

Btw, I don't get the outrage. It would never occur to me that my daughter should have a pop star as her role model.

 

And I find it remarkable how much coverage a performance of some singer gets in media and in people's minds, when there are much more significant issues they could be worrying about... war with Syria, for example.

[cathmom]

This was my feeling also. It was just sad and embarrassing how badly she danced and acted. It reminded me of an SNL skit.

I bet SNL is going to have fun with this. Or are they still in reruns or whatever?

 

Hey I admit I couldn't look away.  LOL

 

I was like what the....

That was my thought as well, I just watched, thinking, "What the..."

 

Why did the whole thing look so, well, cheap? The costumes, the foam finger, the teddy bears, it looked so amateurish. Was it supposed to?  And, really, was it supposed to be sexy somehow? Because none of it was. 

 

Sign me,

Baffled and Spent Way Too Much Time Thinking About This

 

Oh, and Key of Awesome is hysterical! You should all watch the parody of Bruno Mars' Grenade by them.

[Joanne]

I just feel this overwhelming sense of sadness.

 

That poor kid needs a dad to love her enough to say, "Sweetheart, don't act like that in public. You deserve more than what you're advertising for..." :(

Usually, there's only one reason a young woman ever acts like this and that's because she's not secure enough in herself without being trampy. And I really hate to see this young woman, who has an ear of millions, demonstrating that it's OK...

She's an adult. Her father has been reported as sad and worried about her choices in the past.

 

I am neutral about her Dad but the assumptions in the quoted paragraph are inaccurate. Millions of young adults make egregious choices regardless of parenting style.

[Joanne]

I just feel this overwhelming sense of sadness.

 

That poor kid needs a dad to love her enough to say, "Sweetheart, don't act like that in public. You deserve more than what you're advertising for..." :(

Usually, there's only one reason a young woman ever acts like this and that's because she's not secure enough in herself without being trampy. And I really hate to see this young woman, who has an ear of millions, demonstrating that it's OK...

She's an adult. Her father has been reported as sad and worried about her choices in the past.

 

I am neutral about her Dad but the assumptions in the quoted paragraph are inaccurate. Millions of young adults make egregious choices regardless of parenting style.

[Rebel Yell]

Her first costume looked like Chuck E Cheese!!! Maybe she saved up tickets!

 

:huh:  :glare:  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

 

Oh my goodness- they really need a "puddle" smiley for ""peeing my pants laughing.

[Rebel Yell]

This was my feeling also. It was just sad and embarrassing how badly she danced and acted. It reminded me of an SNL skit.

 

:lurk5:  Gotta make sure I watch SNL this week....  better strap on a depends- I'll probably embarrass myself laughing.

 

On second thought, what can they possibly do to make it worse than it was? :leaving:

 

[albeto.]

If anything, that kind of performance causes more harm than good, because it was so reminiscent of a young girl publicly trying on "nonconventional" behaviors because it's expected by others, not because it's something authentic for her. There's no freedom or art in that.

 

From where do you get this impression? Do other women's sexual moves and similar lack of voice synthesizer give you the same idea? What about her supposedly wholesome background? Or is it because you "know" Miley Cyrus as a sweet, innocent, twelve year old Hannah Montana, and this image of her is awkward and uncomfortable? If it's because seeing this girl gyrate her hips on stage against props, then I'd suggest it's not because the performance was sub-par, but because the performance was bursting with sexual imagery, and the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why. So we rationalize it: She's depressed, she's rebelling, she's trying too hard, she's didn't give a quality performance, etc. etc, etc. Any of these things could be, of course, but in the course of the comments that have swept the internet, I think it's mostly repulsion at seeing the image of a wholesome girl juxtaposed against the image of a sexually assertive woman, and that dichotomy plays tricks on our brains. 

[I.Dup.]

Don't feel too bad for Billy Rae. He's not living off of Achy Breaky Heart money.

 

I guess you're right. Do you mean he's still making money off of her? Or that he did when she was younger in the HM phase?

 

Still, I sympathize as a parent. I would be devastated if my child felt the need to act that way.

 

Albeto, you've got interesting points. But what you described as bad IS something I'm trying to do with my kids. LOL...I do want to shelter them and protect them from the "evils" of the world. I'm not sitting in the corner in a fetal position, shielding them from the sunlight outside, but I've experienced enough of life to know all the promises and fun often leave one way worse off then when they started. I DO feel it's my job to protect and shelter my kids, as emotionally disturbing and provoking as those words have become. :confused1:

[Catwoman]

From where do you get this impression? Do other women's sexual moves and similar lack of voice synthesizer give you the same idea? What about her supposedly wholesome background? Or is it because you "know" Miley Cyrus as a sweet, innocent, twelve year old Hannah Montana, and this image of her is awkward and uncomfortable? If it's because seeing this girl gyrate her hips on stage against props, then I'd suggest it's not because the performance was sub-par, but because the performance was bursting with sexual imagery, and the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why. So we rationalize it: She's depressed, she's rebelling, she's trying too hard, she's didn't give a quality performance, etc. etc, etc. Any of these things could be, of course, but in the course of the comments that have swept the internet, I think it's mostly repulsion at seeing the image of a wholesome girl juxtaposed against the image of a sexually assertive woman, and that dichotomy plays tricks on our brains.

I don't think most people have viewed Miley Cyrus as being "wholesome" for several years now.

 

I also think that many people would have thought she was grown up and sexy if she had actually come across that way. She didn't come across as "sexually assertive;" she came across as silly, clownish, cartoonish, and amateurish -- and I'm pretty sure that's not the image she was trying to project.

 

I really think you're attaching way too much meaning to this, and I also think you may be giving Miley Cyrus credit for brain power she does not possess.

[Catwoman]

OK, I'm on my iPad so I can't post the link, but everyone here has to stop what they're doing right now and go look at the "Under the Dome and Breaking Bad: Dean Norris" thread.

 

Unsinkable posted a clip there of Hank and Marie's reaction to Miley's performance.

[albeto.]

I just feel this overwhelming sense of sadness.

 

Can you flesh that out a bit more? What makes you sad? Why does the sadness of this event overwhelm you?

 

That poor kid needs a dad to love her enough to say, "Sweetheart, don't act like that in public.  You deserve more than what you're advertising for..."   :(

Usually, there's only one reason a young woman ever acts like this and that's because she's not secure enough in herself without being trampy.   And I really hate to see this young woman, who has an ear of millions, demonstrating that it's OK...

 

The implication that her father doesn't love her "enough," or hasn't tried to advise her against these kinds of public displays is unfounded. What she's "advertising" is her service as an entertainer. If she has any business savvy, she'll cater her service to the demands of the industry.

 

But I'm curious, why do you think her display of confidence and aggressiveness is indicative of insecurity? In your opinion, is this universal of all people who feel confident in the aggressive, sexual role?

[I.Dup.]

the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why.

 

You mean at seeing people having sex out in public? Or acting it out? Are you saying we should be comfortable with that?

 

What if there is something in us, not something imposed on us but there intrinsically, that knows it's wrong?

 

 

I don't think most people have viewed Miley Cyrus as being "wholesome" for several years now.

 

I also think that many people would have thought she was grown up and sexy if she had actually come across that way. She didn't come across as "sexually assertive;" she came across as silly, clownish, cartoonish, and amateurish -- and I'm pretty sure that's not the image she was trying to project.

 

I really think you're attaching way too much meaning to this, and I also think you may be giving Miley Cyrus credit for brain power she does not possess.

 

I agree. It was awkward and uncomfortable to watch. Sometimes people being sexy or dancing in a sexual manner is beautiful to watch. This wasn't one of those cases.

[myfunnybunch]

From where do you get this impression? Do other women's sexual moves and similar lack of voice synthesizer give you the same idea? What about her supposedly wholesome background? Or is it because you "know" Miley Cyrus as a sweet, innocent, twelve year old Hannah Montana, and this image of her is awkward and uncomfortable? If it's because seeing this girl gyrate her hips on stage against props, then I'd suggest it's not because the performance was sub-par, but because the performance was bursting with sexual imagery, and the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why. So we rationalize it: She's depressed, she's rebelling, she's trying too hard, she's didn't give a quality performance, etc. etc, etc. Any of these things could be, of course, but in the course of the comments that have swept the internet, I think it's mostly repulsion at seeing the image of a wholesome girl juxtaposed against the image of a sexually assertive woman, and that dichotomy plays tricks on our brains. 

 

Hmm. No, that's not what I saw. I wasn't uncomfortable. I wasn't horrified. You're imposing something onto my perspective that isn't there. Let me be very clear: My perspective has nothing to do with discomfort with sexuality, or puritan culture, or sex behind closed doors, or young women growing into sensual sexual beings. I don't care about that. I am only discussing the quality of the performance.

 

The performance didn't seem authentic to me.

 

Period. I'm not rationalizing anything.

 

I have no problem with performers and sexual moves or sexual assertiveness in women. For example, I think of Madonna as challenging, provocative, brilliant. I don't much care for Lady Gaga, mostly, but she is brilliant at what she does. I believe Miley Cyrus should be able to be sensual and grown-up as a performer. FWIW, I did see her as Hannah Montana, and thought she was kind of nauseating as a sweet innocent Disney girl, which felt to me as inauthentic as last night's performance. That's what's informing my perspective. For me, this issue is about the damage caused by the focus on image above authenticity as a performer. I can't imagine growing up with such intense constant pressure to be what everyone else wants to see.

 

Cat

[nmoira]

From where do you get this impression? Do other women's sexual moves and similar lack of voice synthesizer give you the same idea? What about her supposedly wholesome background? Or is it because you "know" Miley Cyrus as a sweet, innocent, twelve year old Hannah Montana, and this image of her is awkward and uncomfortable? If it's because seeing this girl gyrate her hips on stage against props, then I'd suggest it's not because the performance was sub-par, but because the performance was bursting with sexual imagery, and the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why. So we rationalize it: She's depressed, she's rebelling, she's trying too hard, she's didn't give a quality performance, etc. etc, etc. Any of these things could be, of course, but in the course of the comments that have swept the internet, I think it's mostly repulsion at seeing the image of a wholesome girl juxtaposed against the image of a sexually assertive woman, and that dichotomy plays tricks on our brains.

Having (thankfully) missed the whole Disney Miley era, I can only compare her with performers with whom I am familiar, and I am far from in touch with today's pop. I usually watch the big VMA productions after the fact because I appreciate the work that goes into them and enjoy a bit of spectacle. It's usually not music I particularly enjoy in the absence of the spectacle. I'd love to see a Miley Cyrus take control of her career and be the next Madonna or Beyoncé because I admire the heck out of sheer forces of will and nature.

 

That said, I'll take the Lion and the Cobra over anything either had to offer because O'Conner's voice is itself a force of nature. But that's apples and oranges. :D

[myfunnybunch]

oops. sorry!

[albeto.]

Albeto, you've got interesting points. But what you described as bad IS something I'm trying to do with my kids. LOL...I do want to shelter them and protect them from the "evils" of the world. I'm not sitting in the corner in a fetal position, shielding them from the sunlight outside, but I've experienced enough of life to know all the promises and fun often leave one way worse off then when they started. I DO feel it's my job to protect and shelter my kids, as emotionally disturbing and provoking as those words have become. :confused1:

 

You know, I think probably most, if not all of us here can identify with this sentiment. What I find particularly interesting is in how people assume their personal Line Which Must Not Be Crossed is based on some universal Truth. Those who do cross that line are "wrong," rather than simply drawing a different line based on different information and personal experiences. I mean, I want to shelter my kids from those things in society I interpret to be unnecessarily dangerous, and yet I suspect we'd identify some of these dangers quite differently. ;-)

[Parrothead]

While traveling DH was booked in the same hotel as a furries convention. People dressed as bears were kicked out for very public displays of affection.

Thet have a convention? What are dh and I missing?

 

 

No, no. Maybe I don't want to know.

[Scarlett]

OK, I'm on my iPad so I can't post the link, but everyone here has to stop what they're doing right now and go look at the "Under the Dome and Breaking Bad: Dean Norris" thread.

 

Unsinkable posted a clip there of Hank and Marie's reaction to Miley's performance.

 

 

Yes it is very funny if you are a Breaking Bad fan.

 

And the parody posted on this thread earlie is hilarious!

[Scarlett]

Thet have a convention? What are dh and I missing?

 

 

No, no. Maybe I don't want to know.

 

I remember a CSI episode....ick.

[nmoira]

Thet have a convention? What are dh and I missing?

 

 

No, no. Maybe I don't want to know.

There's a con for *everything*.

[Kathryn]

From where do you get this impression? Do other women's sexual moves and similar lack of voice synthesizer give you the same idea? What about her supposedly wholesome background? Or is it because you "know" Miley Cyrus as a sweet, innocent, twelve year old Hannah Montana, and this image of her is awkward and uncomfortable? If it's because seeing this girl gyrate her hips on stage against props, then I'd suggest it's not because the performance was sub-par, but because the performance was bursting with sexual imagery, and the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why. So we rationalize it: She's depressed, she's rebelling, she's trying too hard, she's didn't give a quality performance, etc. etc, etc. Any of these things could be, of course, but in the course of the comments that have swept the internet, I think it's mostly repulsion at seeing the image of a wholesome girl juxtaposed against the image of a sexually assertive woman, and that dichotomy plays tricks on our brains.

Uh, no. I have no clue what "Hannah Montana" is/was besides some Disney show she starred in. The only juxtaposition here is between that performance and those of entertainers who know what they're doing. That wasn't sexually assertive--that was pathetic.

[albeto.]

You mean at seeing people having sex out in public? Or acting it out? Are you saying we should be comfortable with that?

 

Not at all. I'm suggesting a possible variable in the equation that concludes Miley Cyrus' performance to be embarrassing and shameful.

 

What if there is something in us, not something imposed on us but there intrinsically, that knows it's wrong?

 

And what if there are little invisible gremlins that live among our brain neurons, that throw the switch (like on a train track) to determine what we will think and when?

 

In the absence of any indication to support such a hypothesis, it's reasonable to leave it aside and pull it out for the purpose of fictional stories and romantic poetry, not explaining nature.

 

 

I agree. It was awkward and uncomfortable to watch. Sometimes people being sexy or dancing in a sexual manner is beautiful to watch. This wasn't one of those cases.

 

I didn't think it was sexy or beautiful at all. But then, I don't think it was supposed to be. 

[Catwoman]

Thet have a convention? What are dh and I missing?

No, no. Maybe I don't want to know.

I suspect it would be one of those "things you really wish you could un-see."

 

Sort of like the way I'm feeling about the mental images I have in my head of Teddy Ruxpin right now, thanks to Wendy's (oops! I mean ROY'S) earlier post. :ack2:

 

Thanks for nothing, "Roy." :glare:

 

:D :D :D

 

 

.

[nmoira]

Uh, no. I have no clue what "Hannah Montana" is/was besides some Disney show she starred in. The only juxtaposition here is between that performance and those of entertainers who know what they're doing. That wasn't sexually assertive--that was pathetic.

I saw Prince on his Purple Rain tour, and boy, between him and Sheila E, I've never seen an audience so aroused. You know it's on when *you* have to take a breath.

[albeto.]

Hmm. No, that's not what I saw. I wasn't uncomfortable. I wasn't horrified. You're imposing something onto my perspective that isn't there....

 

Okay, thanks for clarifying. If I may ask, do you think when Miley Cyrus first agreed to, and was was rehearsing for this performance, she could have felt it was authentic to her? What kinds of differences would have made it authentic for you?

[PeacefulChaos]

From where do you get this impression? Do other women's sexual moves and similar lack of voice synthesizer give you the same idea? What about her supposedly wholesome background? Or is it because you "know" Miley Cyrus as a sweet, innocent, twelve year old Hannah Montana, and this image of her is awkward and uncomfortable? If it's because seeing this girl gyrate her hips on stage against props, then I'd suggest it's not because the performance was sub-par, but because the performance was bursting with sexual imagery, and the puritan culture of the U.S. isn't too keen on the idea of sex not being kept behind doors, within the context of private, holy matrimony. It puts a kind of defensive block in our brain, it warns us that something is intrinsically "wrong," and so we feel disgust, but we don't know why. So we rationalize it: She's depressed, she's rebelling, she's trying too hard, she's didn't give a quality performance, etc. etc, etc. Any of these things could be, of course, but in the course of the comments that have swept the internet, I think it's mostly repulsion at seeing the image of a wholesome girl juxtaposed against the image of a sexually assertive woman, and that dichotomy plays tricks on our brains. 

 

No, I just didn't like it because the performance wasn't well done.  

Yeah, I found it raunchy, like I said earlier - raunchy in a really bad, amateur, stupid way.  The performance was terrible.  

I don't really care about the whole Hannah Montana thing - I wasn't a fan to begin with, and I don't like fake, overly cheesy 'good girls' either. :)  

In the end, do I care a whole heck of a lot?  Nope.  This sort of thing happens now and again.  I don't think about it other than yesterday when my FB feed had blown up about it (because I did have a lot of friends who were watching the VMAs, apparently! :lol: ) and on this thread.  

I think plenty of female performers can pull of some crazy, artistic, sexy stuff.  Not all of them are my taste, but I can definitely recognize Gaga for what she is - incredibly entertaining and good at what she does.  Same with Madonna.  

Miley is none of that.  

 

Hmm. No, that's not what I saw. I wasn't uncomfortable. I wasn't horrified. You're imposing something onto my perspective that isn't there. Let me be very clear: My perspective has nothing to do with discomfort with sexuality, or puritan culture, or sex behind closed doors, or young women growing into sensual sexual beings. I don't care about that. I am only discussing the quality of the performance.

 

The performance didn't seem authentic to me.

 

Period. I'm not rationalizing anything.

 

I have no problem with performers and sexual moves or sexual assertiveness in women. For example, I think of Madonna as challenging, provocative, brilliant. I don't much care for Lady Gaga, mostly, but she is brilliant at what she does. I believe Miley Cyrus should be able to be sensual and grown-up as a performer. FWIW, I did see her as Hannah Montana, and thought she was kind of nauseating as a sweet innocent Disney girl, which felt to me as inauthentic as last night's performance. That's what's informing my perspective. For me, this issue is about the damage caused by the focus on image above authenticity as a performer. I can't imagine growing up with such intense constant pressure to be what everyone else wants to see.

 

Cat

 

:iagree:

I remember a CSI episode....ick.

Yes!  That's the only reason I was familiar with the concept lol :D

[I.Dup.]

 

And what if there are little invisible gremlins that live among our brain neurons, that throw the switch (like on a train track) to determine what we will think and when?

 

In the absence of any indication to support such a hypothesis, it's reasonable to leave it aside and pull it out for the purpose of fictional stories and romantic poetry, not explaining nature.

 

 

LOL! Okay, okay, relax. :tongue_smilie: 

 

Your theories are just as pie in the sky as mine are. Who determines that the American culture is, in fact, puritan? What proof is there that we would be perfectly fine with sexual imagery and sexually aggressive women (or men, but for the sake of this conversation, women) with no shame at all if our crazily-inhibited culture hadn't restricted us in some way?

[Janie Grace]

 

I didn't think it was sexy or beautiful at all. But then, I don't think it was supposed to be. 

You don't think it was supposed to be sexy? Really?