A P.S. teacher told me today

[Jean in Newcastle]

that by having my ds16 finish the textbook, I was being legalistic.  She told me that p.s. teachers don't teach the whole textbook, which I knew from personal experience.  Then she told me that at her school they rarely got past the first three chapters, which seemed a bit extreme to me.  All that though is really beside the point for me because I don't feel like I have to do what they do in a p.s. classroom.  But then she told me that if I insisted on ds' finishing his textbook that I was legalistic!  That left me dumbfounded.  Is this some sort of "by homeschooling, you're making us look bad" thing?  

[BakersDozen]

We finish textbooks so I guess we're legalistic. I like to think of us as focused, thorough and "staying the course". Now we don't do every problem/assignment in every textbook but I'd say we do 95% of a text and I feel good about that.

 

I've had many homeschooling moms challenge me on this and point out that public schools don't finish the texts. That leaves me more determined than ever to not do what public schools do - to finish the race well.

[wingedradical]

Can you name the school district so that none of us will be tempted to send our kids there?  :huh:

 

I do believe it is true that many textbooks aren't finished - but 3 chapters? 

 

Like many things in this country, perhaps the school system doesn't need new regulations - teachers (and students) just need to follow the ones now in place?

[swellmomma]

Well than I am legalistic too.  We may skip problems or the occasional lab etc but on the whole we use a text book cover to cover even if it means carrying it forward into the next school year.  I consider that I good thing about homeschooling.  I know schools often don't finish them, but I had always heard it they don't do that last 3-4 chapters, not that they only did that many total.  Or in things like science textbooks they jump around from chapter to chapter skipping one here and one there

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can you name the school district so that none of us will be tempted to send our kids there?  :huh:

 

 

I looked up her school district on Greatschools.org.  They only get a 4 out of 10.  

 

 

[Erin]

Well, insisting on finishing a book might indeed be legalistic...  ;)

However, 3 chapters??  I can't believe shame didn't keep her quiet!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, insisting on finishing a book might indeed be legalistic...   ;)

However, 3 chapters??  I can't believe shame didn't keep her quiet!

 

She made a point of talking about how in history they never got past the Romans in chapter 3 so she was talking about history at that point.  But then she made a generalization that none of the other classes went farther in the books either.  I don't know how accurate her information is, though, for all the classes, let alone the entire school district.  Though as I said up thread, the school district only scores a 4 out of 10 so they must have pretty poor test scores since I think that is what the rating is based on.  

[Erin]

i was curious how our school rated, since you'd mentioned Greatschools...  

Everything I found had a five-star scale.  What are you seeing that was 10?  The general review?

[Jean in Newcastle]

i was curious how our school rated, since you'd mentioned Greatschools...  

Everything I found had a five-star scale.  What are you seeing that was 10?  The general review?

It said "District Rating" with a number in a blue box.  I actually don't know what specific school she teaches at.  

[Candid]

That's the Ancient Romans in what I assume is a year long western civilization class that should at the minimum make it to the 20th century? That would not be my source for educational information. Man o man. 

[Saddlemomma]

I can tie that one....

 

I had our teacher evaluator come a couple of weeks ago to evaluate dd's work last year and give us the recommendation we needed to proceed into 5th grade.  When she walked in, she already had the recommendation letter printed and signed, and she put it face down on our table.  I didn't say anything, and we proceeded to review dd's work.

 

After the review, I asked her if there were any holes we had to fill.  She stated we were fine, and that she was impressed at the amount and quality of the work we had finished.  I then asked about writing (who doesn't) as we really didn't have any formal writing curriculum last year.  She looked me straight in the eye and told me...."Saddlemomma, your dd writes better than most of the 5th graders I see coming into my class.  Look, she's already using quotes and putting expression into her writing.  Most of the kids I see can't do that coming into 5th.  Stop worrying."  

 

Then I told her that when I first started homeschooling, the goal was to just get dd through elementary school and then put her into PS for HS.  This teacher, again, looked me square in the eye and said...."Don't ever put her into public school!  Keep doing what you're doing."  She said that most teachers don't see the success stories of homeschooling; they mostly see the failures (she was specifically talking about our area in northern Maine).  That's why PS teachers here are not proponents of homeschooling.  However, she feels dd is getting a much better eduction through homeschooling.

 

After she left, I picked up the letter and read it.  Within it she stated..."I have found her work to be done in an above average manner.  DD would appear to be very adequately prepared for fifth grade."

 

We have had this teacher evaluate us since dd stared Kindergarten.  So she's very familiar with our style and methods.  However, she indicated that things have gotten so ridiculous with the ps system, that she is seriously contemplating retiring (she's been a teacher for over 30 years).  Thankfully, she did tell me that if she retires, she will retain her certification and will be able to continue evaluating dd's work for us.  Thank goodness!

 

I am more determined than ever to continue with homeschooling through HS!

 

 

"Legalistic" and "Overachiever" are two words which really bug me.  Usually, when used pejoratively, they strike me as sour grapes.

[justamouse]

Just the first three chapters? 

 

 

Well with that philosophy, why even start? 

[Ellie]

I looked up her school district on Greatschools.org.  They only get a 4 out of 10.  

 

Well, there you go.

[swimmermom3]

Jean, teachers that really know their material often do not use an entire textbook. If you are an AP European History teacher, your students will skip the early chapters in the text and pick up somewhere roughly around 1400-1450 because that is what is covered on the test. If you are using Foerster's Algebra and Trig book, you stop somewhere around Chapter 12 (if I remember right) and pick up the PreCalculus book because the same materials are covered. Math and science texts often have later chapters on advanced topics that may not be part of a standard course, but are there for more challenge.

 

I think finishing the textbook becomes legalistic if you are more focused on that goal than mastery of the material.

[Julie of KY]

I use textbooks to meet my goals. For some goals, it may require doing the entire text, while others goals are met my using portions of texts.

I wouldn't presume to say that a child has covered algebra if they can't do what is in an algebra book, but I think a credit of history may focus on things not in a text if enough hours are spent on the subject.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean, teachers that really know their material often do not use an entire textbook. If you are an AP European History teacher, your students will skip the early chapters in the text and pick up somewhere roughly around 1400-1450 because that is what is covered on the test. If you are using Foerster's Algebra and Trig book, you stop somewhere around Chapter 12 (if I remember right) and pick up the PreCalculus book because the same materials are covered. Math and science texts often have later chapters on advanced topics that may not be part of a standard course, but are there for more challenge.

 

I think finishing the textbook becomes legalistic if you are more focused on that goal than mastery of the material.

Oh, I agree with you.  But I can tell you that this was not the kind of teaching this teacher was talking about.  The reason it even came up was because she was assuring me that even if I cut corners I would still be doing a lot better than public school.  (Which was a bit of a surreal conversation to be having with a public school teacher!)  

[Erin]

 

 

(Which was a bit of a surreal conversation to be having with a public school teacher!)  

Why?
I know a LOT of public school teachers who support homeschooling...

[mom2bee]

Hooray for being "legalistic"!!!

[DarlaS]

Is this some sort of "by homeschooling, you're making us look bad" thing?

That's my impression.

 

 

 

I do believe it is true that many textbooks aren't finished - but 3 chapters?

Sounds like my high school biology class. Never did a single lab either despite the room being very well set up for them.

 

 

 

I looked up her school district on Greatschools.org.  They only get a 4 out of 10.

 

Well, there ya go.

 

 

"Legalistic" and "Overachiever" are two words which really bug me.  Usually, when used pejoratively, they strike me as sour grapes.

Yep! Also, I think she has learned a fun new word and wants to use it.

[TCB]

I've only got one example to share, but my dd did Spanish 1 at the local High School last year and they only covered about 3 chapters. Because of this I'm not sure what to do this year. DD wants to continue studying Spanish and become proficient but doesn't want to continue at the school ( she did 2 classes at school last year and the rest at home) because it went so slowly and she feels like she could make more progress at home. However, when I looked at the BJU Spanish curric. the school did not cover anywhere near the Span. 1 material in the BJU book - yet she got a high school credit for it. I will need to buy both the 1 and 2 books in order for her to continue at home and that will be quite expensive.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why?

I know a LOT of public school teachers who support homeschooling...

So do I.  But most don't try to persuade me to change my teaching style to match theirs.  Or tell me that I should cut corners because otherwise I will be legalistic.  

[shawthorne44]

I remember being shocked when I took AP American History (back in the dark ages) when we finished the book. 
I remember in Texas History we spent 3 months on the meandering Spaniards.  Three weeks on the Alamo.  Three days on the Civil War. 

In world history, we never got past late 19th century.  The ONLY thing you needed to know about the 20th century was that the Italians fought with us in one WW and against us in the other.  That was because they were required to ask a question on the final exam about WWI and WWII, but combining was allowed.  Since the 20th century was so unimportant :confused1: , only one question was needed.

 

[FaithManor]

This year, the most advanced geometry class made it through 5 chapters. There were 9 chapters of new material, really needed to be taught material. The rest of the classes only made it through 3 or 4. But, they'll all receive their full credit for completing high school geometry. Sigh....meanwhile, my kids are doing all of the new material that is not overlap into the next year...I swear, my kids are not geniuses, but the local PS makes them appear that way because the standards are so low.

 

The biology book had around 30 chapters. They are required to cover 23, so the teacher gets through at most 10 chapters of any real learning, and then for the rest of the year, does a "memorize these definitions" vocabulary list for each of the remaining chapters. The kids take a "matching" quiz on each list. No labs, no projects, no actually reading of the text beyond chapter 10...meanwhile my kids, due to my legalism, work 10 times harder for the same credit. Maybe I'm just an educational snob, but it sure would be nice if the school down the road actually had a standard or two slightly above "totally illiterate, unemployable!"

 

As my dad puts it, "The diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed one!"

 

The contrast is the school district 48 minutes from here that has a high school ranked in the top 500 in the nation and whose kids work hard for their diploma and colleges stand in line to get their graduates.

 

I weep for my community.

 

3 chapters - I'd have to see the textbook, but in most cases, this should be bizarrely unacceptable.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

The contrast is the school district 48 minutes from here that has a high school ranked in the top 500 in the nation and whose kids work hard for their diploma and colleges stand in line to get their graduates.

 

 

That's the thing.  This woman's school district (which is about 40 min. south of us) got a score of 4 out of 10.

Our school district gets a score of 5 out of 10.  Better than hers but not by much.

But if we lived less than a mile west of our current location we would be in a district that gets a score of 9 out of 10.  And if we lived less than a mile north of our current location we would be in another district that gets a score of 9 out of 10.  Where you live makes a huge difference even though the neighborhoods and houses in each of these districts look pretty much the same.  

[PeterPan]

I have a friend who teaches high school english, and she's very frustrated at how unprepared her kids are when they come into class. By that point, they've come into say an AP class needing so much remedial work that they *can't* get through the proper level of work.  I imagine the same could happen in math.

[PeterPan]

I've only got one example to share, but my dd did Spanish 1 at the local High School last year and they only covered about 3 chapters. Because of this I'm not sure what to do this year. DD wants to continue studying Spanish and become proficient but doesn't want to continue at the school ( she did 2 classes at school last year and the rest at home) because it went so slowly and she feels like she could make more progress at home. However, when I looked at the BJU Spanish curric. the school did not cover anywhere near the Span. 1 material in the BJU book - yet she got a high school credit for it. I will need to buy both the 1 and 2 books in order for her to continue at home and that will be quite expensive.

 

Wow, this is blowing my mind.  Have you already gotten the BJU spanish?  I got it to use with my dd this coming summer (2014) after we do La Clase Divertide this year.  http://www.funclase.com/High-School-Spanish-p/hs.htm   You might check into it.  I think a student would do better with BJU using the videos.  It would be an unusual student who could learn from it independently.  He might still have room to throw you in La Clase.  He has an advanced 1 class that might work, and he uses a college text with lots of online resources.

[CyndiLJ]

Totally not surprised, but deeply saddened.  We are doing our first high school run through with our 9th grader this year, and it is clear we will get the entire book covered, without exception.  We are legalistic, too, I suppose, but I also recall never finishing anything in high school.  Not math, not science, nothing.

 

As I type this I have two kids at 6:45 PM still doing a little work.  We homeschool, and we homeschool HARD.  Priorities are different, I guess.

[fairfarmhand]

I can tie that one....

 

I had our teacher evaluator come a couple of weeks ago to evaluate dd's work last year and give us the recommendation we needed to proceed into 5th grade.  When she walked in, she already had the recommendation letter printed and signed, and she put it face down on our table.  I didn't say anything, and we proceeded to review dd's work.

 

After the review, I asked her if there were any holes we had to fill.  She stated we were fine, and that she was impressed at the amount and quality of the work we had finished.  I then asked about writing (who doesn't) as we really didn't have any formal writing curriculum last year.  She looked me straight in the eye and told me...."Saddlemomma, your dd writes better than most of the 5th graders I see coming into my class.  Look, she's already using quotes and putting expression into her writing.  Most of the kids I see can't do that coming into 5th.  Stop worrying."  

 

Then I told her that when I first started homeschooling, the goal was to just get dd through elementary school and then put her into PS for HS.  This teacher, again, looked me square in the eye and said...."Don't ever put her into public school!  Keep doing what you're doing."  She said that most teachers don't see the success stories of homeschooling; they mostly see the failures (she was specifically talking about our area in northern Maine).  That's why PS teachers here are not proponents of homeschooling.  However, she feels dd is getting a much better eduction through homeschooling.

 

After she left, I picked up the letter and read it.  Within it she stated..."I have found her work to be done in an above average manner.  DD would appear to be very adequately prepared for fifth grade."

 

We have had this teacher evaluate us since dd stared Kindergarten.  So she's very familiar with our style and methods.  However, she indicated that things have gotten so ridiculous with the ps system, that she is seriously contemplating retiring (she's been a teacher for over 30 years).  Thankfully, she did tell me that if she retires, she will retain her certification and will be able to continue evaluating dd's work for us.  Thank goodness!

 

I am more determined than ever to continue with homeschooling through HS!

 

We have many ps teachers in our church. They almost all send their kids to the christian school in our area, and they all believe that I am doing an excellent job academically with my kids.

I think of it as getting my money's worth, LOL. If I paid for the book, we are going to get the most learning possible out of it, in the way that benefits my learner most. That may mean skipping some problems if they feel repetitive (like doing the odd #s in a grammar book or changing the theme of the writing assignment)at my (the teacher's) discretion. But it does mean covering the material with reasonable thoroughness. How can you cover the material in the text if you only go over 3 chapters, for pete's sake?

I feel the same way!

[Jean in Newcastle]

BTW - thinking over the original conversation and then your answers on this thread has made me appreciate the people on this high school board even more.  There have been times when I've totally wanted to slack and just say we did something when we really didn't but you all have encouraged me to stay the course and be honest to my high standards.  Bravo!  

[TCB]

Wow, this is blowing my mind.  Have you already gotten the BJU spanish?  I got it to use with my dd this coming summer (2014) after we do La Clase Divertide this year.  http://www.funclase.com/High-School-Spanish-p/hs.htm   You might check into it.  I think a student would do better with BJU using the videos.  It would be an unusual student who could learn from it independently.  He might still have room to throw you in La Clase.  He has an advanced 1 class that might work, and he uses a college text with lots of online resources.

Thanks for the link. I looked at it and it looked really good and good value, however not in the budget range for this year. I haven't bought the BJU yet, but hope to get most of it used at the used book store when they have their 40% off sale next week. My dh and I both learned Portuguese as children and then French in college for dh and French, German and Spanish in H.S for me. I don't know Spanish well but feel like we have some experience with language learning and also a dnil who is Mexican and who can do some of the conversational stuff. It is crazy the range in what is classed a high school credit. I guess mommy grades validation isn't worth much if doing courses at some schools.

[kerenlynne]

When we moved from Colorado to NM DS was going into 7th grade. I can't say for the 2 1/2 years he stayed in the PS we had any textbooks come home for me to have an idea of what they covered. I kind of think it depended on the teacher as to whether or not they covered the materials in the textbooks-if they used them:) The one thing I do remember is that the middle school math teacher didn't use a math book because she wanted to plan her own material. Fine-but the school didn't have money for making copies so the students had to copy the problems off the board. Made me absolutely crazy-ds is math phobic and it was very difficult to help him with assignments with no book and problems that may or may not have been copied correctly from the board. Not really a surprise that the district was a failing district.

[Candid]

That's the thing.  This woman's school district (which is about 40 min. south of us) got a score of 4 out of 10.

Our school district gets a score of 5 out of 10.  Better than hers but not by much.

But if we lived less than a mile west of our current location we would be in a district that gets a score of 9 out of 10.  And if we lived less than a mile north of our current location we would be in another district that gets a score of 9 out of 10.  Where you live makes a huge difference even though the neighborhoods and houses in each of these districts look pretty much the same.  

 

Do they cost the same? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Do they cost the same? 

The housing prices for the two 9/10 districts and my 5/10 district are comparable overall.  There are good and bad neighborhoods in each district, of course.  The housing prices in this other teacher's 4/10 district is about 55% lower than than the other districts.  Yes, she is in a lower income district with a lot of issues that come with that.  

[flyingiguana]

I wouldn't call it legalistic, but it is rather misguided. Just because all those chapters are in a textbook doesn't mean they should all be covered.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find college faculty that cover every chapter in the textbooks they use. They recognize the textbook as a tool to teach what they feel should be covered. The textbook writers put lots of chapters in so everyone will have the tools they need -- but no one really expects everyone to do every chapter.

 

At the high school level, there may be plenty of chapters at the ends of texts (particularly in math and science) that are only there to fulfill some sort of mandate. They may be written really badly and be just about unusable. They're only there because some state somewhere had a law or some school district mandated a particular topic be "introduced". There may also be a fair bit of this material scattered through the earlier chapters that good teachers will decide to skip. Much of it will show up in later books (in math) where it will be covered in enough depth to actually make it usable.

 

So, no, we've never finished a textbook. I look over the topics and get a sense of what *really* needs to be covered, what it would good to cover, and what it would be nice to know -- and we do those. We ignore everything else. Having been in the college educational system for years, I have an advantage in that I know what sorts of things students will need to know to go on in various areas. I just chuck the rest. It's only there to sell the textbooks.

 

There has been a trend recently to produce "custom" texts for college which only include those chapters the professor intends to cover. This has always struck me as a bit silly. I haven't found them to be significantly cheaper. It does save the student lugging around a big book, but it also means the student won't have that text as a reference in years to come (which may be important if this is their major). However, I think it may help with these issues of students thinking that not completing the text is a sign of a lax professor.

 

As far as only doing 3 chapters of a text, well, I'd have to see the text before making an intelligent comment. Was it a significant part of the text (say 1/2?)? Did this cover everything that course was supposed to cover? Was the text chosen because it was a good text for what the class was supposed to cover, but it had a lot of extraneous material?

 

In high school, I NEVER remember completing a text. But that seemed to be just fine, because we covered everything that the teacher in the next level class expected us to know. And we did fine when we got to college.

 

The big exception to this might be history -- but maybe not. A course might be using a Western Civ text that starts with prehistory, but the stated goal of the class might only be to cover European history from 1400. So they might quickly zip through the early chapters for a bit of background, but not get bogged down there as it is not the focus of the class.

 

That said, there are a lot of ps history classes that cover basically nothing. Even the AP history classes I have taken (and have seen the local schools here teach) don't actually cover any the material past, say, 1900. And yet the AP test will cover that material. So, yes, many schools and teachers do fall down on the job in history. And I have always felt that my history education was a disaster, so it probably would have been good if more had been covered. But my science and math education was just fine, and we never, ever finished a text. Never even got close.

 

Never finished a French text either, but we had finished all the grammar and were reading works of literature somewhere in the 3rd year. I get the feeling schools don't get to that point by French 3 anymore, but it's obviously not from not finishing texts, because we never did either.

[Candid]

The housing prices for the two 9/10 districts and my 5/10 district are comparable overall.  There are good and bad neighborhoods in each district, of course.  The housing prices in this other teacher's 4/10 district is about 55% lower than than the other districts.  Yes, she is in a lower income district with a lot of issues that come with that.  

 

Interesting, where we are better schools get better prices. I can think of one set of side by side neighborhoods where the better district's homes that are similar in size get between 2 and 3 times as much. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Interesting, where we are better schools get better prices. I can think of one set of side by side neighborhoods where the better district's homes that are similar in size get between 2 and 3 times as much.

Where we live it's a combo of house size/age, neighborhood density and character (for example we have 5 community pools with low fees, a good library branch and lots of walking trails), schools, and commute. There are parts of the same good district with lower performing schools and smaller houses that are 50-100k more because of commuting time.

We had a swim meet in one gorgeous neighborhood with a lovely pool and big houses that cost less than in our neighborhood. But the commute was often 2 hours one way (4 hours per day commuting).

[TCB]

It was interesting to read flyingiguana's post and perspective about textbooks. However, unfortunately, I think sometimes covering only part of the textbook is because the course is inferior. In my dd's Spanish course, it wasn't just less chapters but less material. I compared the material they covered with the BJU book and there was a huge difference. Part of the reason for this was that the teacher had to teach several English grammar concepts before she could teach the Spanish grammar. My dd was in 7th gr and this was a class of academically able 7th and 8th gr who are able to go to the high school and do the Spanish 1 course and then continue on to Spanish 2 the next year. The teacher had to spend several weeks going over verb conjugations as some of the kids just did not get the concept. When it came time to cover direct objects my dd almost cried because she thought it was going to be a long, drawn out, boring procedure. We have studied grammar at home, so these were familiar things for dd but I don't think her fellow students had had much exposure.

 

All that to say that sometimes things don't get covered in the class that really should be and yet the credit is still given. Is there no way of checking the quality of a high school credit unless the student takes an external exam? Or does it not matter because the colleges look mostly at the ACT / SAT scores?

[TravelingChris]

Well no wonder they didn't get through any Spanish.  If you have to waste your time trying to teach English verb conjugations instead of Spanish, it would take a lot longer.  When I had a conversation with fellow students in college, we all thought we actually were able to finally understand English verb conguations by having studied a foreign language verb congugations.  English are just about the worst ones to learn.  Spanish are very easy to learn.

[regentrude]

Coming in late:

yes, there are abysmally bad courses where not much material is taught. If a Western Civilization course does not go past the Roman empire, there is something wrong. This said, one can not judge the quality of a course solely by the portion of the textbook that is covered. There may be many reasons why I do not cover the entire book in a course:

• the book may cover a larger amount of material than I plan to teach in a year. For example, we have covered the Western Civilization text over the span of three years of World history; so yes, the year of Ancients, I stopped after the Romans.
• the book may cover material that is presented again in a different class. For example, when I teach my college physics course, I omit several chapters because the material will already have been covered in the students' chemistry courses, and in more detail, since they take higher level chem than phys. Conversely, when we did chemistry at home, we omitted chapters that had been covered in physics. Likewise, I might omit history chapters on arts and literature, because we cover the material otherwise.
• the book may contain so much material that  it is impossible to master everything thoroughly in a school year or semester. This is the case with most textbooks. It is my job as an instructor to choose which are the esssential concepts that must be completely mastered, which material should be read for exposure, and which material can be omitted for the target audience (and what that is will vary, depending on audience)
• the book may do a great job teaching a certain portion of the material, but it may not be the best resource teaching another portion. In this case, I might use only a fraction of the book and choose a different resource for the rest of the material.

So, in these cases, covering the entire book in a school year/semester would not have made my course more rigorous.

Not covering the entire text does not always mean cutting corners. I would encourage you all not to be slaves to a text,  but to approach textbooks critically. The textbooks temselves only constitute a selection of material and by no means the only one.

 

ETA: One last thought and then I shut up: let's also not forget that the level of textbooks varies greatly. A student may learn more in course that covers a third of a rigorous book than in a course that covers a wimpy textbook in its entirety.

[TCB]

Well no wonder they didn't get through any Spanish.  If you have to waste your time trying to teach English verb conjugations instead of Spanish, it would take a lot longer.  When I had a conversation with fellow students in college, we all thought we actually were able to finally understand English verb conguations by having studied a foreign language verb congugations.  English are just about the worst ones to learn.  Spanish are very easy to learn.

I probably wasn't very clear. She was not teaching them how to conjugate English verbs, but merely the concept of conjugating verbs, which the students were not familiar with. I don't know for sure why, but it took a long time for quite a few of them to understand enough to be able to understand the Spanish verb conjugations. These kids were all bright kids but this was an alien concept. My take on it was that grammar seemed an alien concept but I may not be correct.

[Candid]

Where we live it's a combo of house size/age, neighborhood density and character (for example we have 5 community pools with low fees, a good library branch and lots of walking trails), schools, and commute. There are parts of the same good district with lower performing schools and smaller houses that are 50-100k more because of commuting time.

We had a swim meet in one gorgeous neighborhood with a lovely pool and big houses that cost less than in our neighborhood. But the commute was often 2 hours one way (4 hours per day commuting).

 

We don't have commute issues here. And you can definitely see that house size is also a factor as is "prestige." The really nice neighborhoods all have decent schools, but in the best school's surrounds there is a more of a mix hence I can see the actual price difference between its and the next over school's housing. I suspect since the two neighborhoods are both older that the one with cheaper prices is also more run down because of the lack of the good school. 

[chepyl]

We finish the books. We skip a lot of repetition in math because DS does not need it. But we cover every topic to mastery. We finish history, but we use SOTW, you can't really skip and start the next book.....well, you could, but you would be missing a time period.

[TCB]

Just wondering - do you think the redundant chapters etc in textbooks applies the same to homeschool specific texts? I wonder if some of the homeschool texts get rid of the redundant stuff for you and therefore you do need to cover the whole book. Maybe the books mentioned above were regular textbooks, not homeschool specific ones, or adapted to homeschool texts.

[kiana]

Just wondering - do you think the redundant chapters etc in textbooks applies the same to homeschool specific texts? I wonder if some of the homeschool texts get rid of the redundant stuff for you and therefore you do need to cover the whole book. Maybe the books mentioned above were regular textbooks, not homeschool specific ones, or adapted to homeschool texts.

 

Many of them have. For example, Saxon should definitely be covered thoroughly -- with the exception that a student who moves from one book directly to the next without a break may be able to skim through the review at the beginning of the book.

 

When in doubt, ask.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Just wondering - do you think the redundant chapters etc in textbooks applies the same to homeschool specific texts? I wonder if some of the homeschool texts get rid of the redundant stuff for you and therefore you do need to cover the whole book. Maybe the books mentioned above were regular textbooks, not homeschool specific ones, or adapted to homeschool texts.

 

I think that it is much less the case with homeschool specific texts.  At the same time, people use books differently.  For example, some people will start a new Saxon math book by giving the tests and skipping lessons until their kid scores lower than a certain score (for example, less than 90%).  Then they back up 5-10 lessons and start there.  That makes sense because there is a lot of review.

 

On the other hand, there are people who skip half the problems in Saxon mixed practice sets, which is not the way the book is designed to provide review, and in many cases, ends poorly. 

 

I don't think that the public school in question is probably using just 3 chapters because they are covering so much other material from other sources.  There are schools where homework is not assigned because students cannot or will not complete it.  So all reading is done in class.

 

I don't think that skipping a chapter or two is a huge problem, depending on why you do the skipping.  But I think that it's important that we are at least honest with ourselves.  My kids did the first several chapters of a college physics book, before backing up into a high school level text.  I cannot say that we did physics on the same level as a student who used the majority of that college text in a fast paced college setting.  On the flip side, my kids covered half of Wheelock's Latin, a college level text.  But I know that there are families in my own coop who will put down the same Latin I class on their transcript, even though they covered far less.  (Heck, I know what the local, good high school did for Latin and it wasn't as intense.)

 

In the end, I only live with myself and my own family.  I will make sure we complete physics 1work so I can put physics on our transcript without qualms.  I only control my school.  Not all the homeschoolers in town and certainly not the private and public schools.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

that by having my ds16 finish the textbook, I was being legalistic.  She told me that p.s. teachers don't teach the whole textbook, which I knew from personal experience.  Then she told me that at her school they rarely got past the first three chapters, which seemed a bit extreme to me.  All that though is really beside the point for me because I don't feel like I have to do what they do in a p.s. classroom.  But then she told me that if I insisted on ds' finishing his textbook that I was legalistic!  That left me dumbfounded.  Is this some sort of "by homeschooling, you're making us look bad" thing?  

 

One other thought occurs to me.  Is this teacher someone who knows you well, who might know that you're dealing with health issues?  Perhaps this was her way of trying to help you cut yourself some slack.

 

While I'm not a fan of the 3 chapters is good idea, there is a lot of material in many texts that can be skipped, especially in books designed for the public high school and college market, where the users are vast and potentially very different.  I wouldn't expect that a literature anthology be covered from front to back.  Maybe she was trying to point out that not every section has to be mastered in order to have done enough.

[Jean in Newcastle]

RE. chapters in textbooks.  I come here to this board, list the actual text, and ask people knowledgeable in that actual subject which chapters are important and which ones can be skipped.  Once I've done that, I'm going to legalistically finish those chapters.   ;)

 

Also re. my area.  I forgot that my little city is divided in half school district-wise.  So this morning I looked up the data on it based on that information. Half of the city gets one of the 9/10 districts.  The other half (my half) gets the 5/10 district.  The median prices for my entire city is comparable to the housing prices in the entire 9/10 district (which includes another city).  But the median prices for housing in most of the 5/10 district is lower.  In other words, most of the richer people in my city get to go to the nicer school district. What I've seen happen in my particular neighborhood is that people love to live here when children are small and in elementary school because the elementary school is quite good.  They then move ( if they can ) to one of the 9/10 districts right before middle school.  Our middle school is known for gangs etc.  With the exception of my two children, we have no middle/high school students in my immediate neighborhood.  They've all moved away.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

One other thought occurs to me.  Is this teacher someone who knows you well, who might know that you're dealing with health issues?  Perhaps this was her way of trying to help you cut yourself some slack.

 

She does know I have health issues.  And yes, I think that was indeed some of her motivation.  I think also though that she is used to a whole different set of objectives.  She told me once before a long time ago that much of the teacher's energy in her school was on simply getting the teens to come to school instead of skipping.  It wasn't so much her sharing her experience that took me aback as her using the word "legalistic".  But now that I think about it, she tends to be a person that if you don't respond immediately to her advice, she says it again, more forcefully.  

 

But I'm enjoying the general discussion that has developed on textbook content!  

[Jean in Newcastle]

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