VENT (warning) - high school graduates

[BakersDozen]

There is a group of families here who all live/school in a similar fashion. I recognize the differences between what they do and what we do and know it is not wrong, just different. I'm struggling to understand how they are about to have their 15-16yo dc with two years of high school work which included two math classes and not one.single.paper.written resulting in "Graduating with Honors". My own dds were with these kids a while back and came home demanding to know why they can't do high school in two years and hey, Mom, don't you know that Algebra 2 is NOT required to graduate so why are you making us? And oh, about those research papers and books like Tale of Two Cities and The Iliad/Odyssey/Aeneid...there is no need to read them much less write papers on them! Quit making noise about AP classes and exams, Mom, because graduating with honors doesn't need any of that! In fact, according to these families, all one needs is a parent handing out two years worth of As, a GED, and the child graduates with honors.

 

Am I missing something here?? My kids are doing 4 full years of high school. They are reading serious books and writing serious papers. They are taking Algebra 2 as well as another math class after that. I don't give an A unless it is truly earned.

 

What these families do should not affect me but the truth is that since their dc are talking to my dc, it is affecting me. Today we finished our Literature co-op and I invited the 15yo girl to join us next year; that's when she told me she is graduating (with Honors) with her GED and going to CC next year. My older 3 dc turned and just stared at me with that questioning look in their eyes after she left.

 

There is a part of me that wishes AZ would have some kind of oversight/accountability with homeschooling.

 

Why am I taking this so personally? :( I guess because I just stayed up until midnight for the third night in a row researching options for AP/CLEP and other ways to make our last 1-2 years really great, and yet it seems for naught when I hear of kids graduating like this and moving on with their life.

 

Thankfully, we have plans this weekend so cannot attend this graduation bash - the one where our family and my dc would be the only ones still slogging through high school and writing papers.

 

Maybe someone here has a family like this and, if so, I am sorry for being so upset. Perhaps I need more information about what is/is not necessary in high school. Perhaps I need to apologize to my dc for making them do the work they have done when it could have been done so much easier/faster.

 

I feel like cr*p.

[PeterPan]

Sounds like she maxed out what her parents could do for her. It's not what we'd do, because we understand that going in on your GED is unnecessary (dual enrollment and holding out for a full diploma) is better. The parents may even recant. Think about it. She gets into cc and doesn't do well because of her poor background, then what happens? But it is true that in some states you have to take an exam (CHSPE, the equivalent of a GED in CA, for instance) to take classes at the cc. Homeschoolers take it, do dual enrollment, and they keep right on calling themselves homeschoolers.

 

In her case, it really sounds like they maxed out what they could do for her. It's not what you might prefer, but maybe it's better that she stay home another 2 years and continue that way? Maybe this way she gets challenged and actually taught. Probably they'll get their bubble burst. But it's really their deal. There are so many paths.

 

As for your kids, well sorry but I'm kind of snide. There are communities where people are hobbits and just need a little Took. They get stuck and never really look beyond to know what's out there that they might reach for. Teach your kids who they are. A GED won't get your kids what they want (most likely), and once they understand that, maybe they can have some perspective. That family made their choice, but your family makes yours. It's a great big world, and you want your education to open doors, not shut them.

[BakersDozen]

In her case, it really sounds like they maxed out what they could do for her.

Oh my goodness...of course. How arrogant and stupid of me to not consider that. Shame on me for not considering that aspect of these families. Sigh...embarrassment takes over. :(

[PeterPan]

Oh my goodness...of course. How arrogant and stupid of me to not consider that. Shame on me for not considering that aspect of these families. Sigh...embarrassment takes over. :(

 

I don't know if you're laughing at me or serious, but yes absolutely that could have happened. When I evaluated transcripts at a university, I had a call from a mom who asked me what she should do because her dd had completed everything there was to do in high school. Oh yeah, lol! People don't skip writing and do minimal math because they know the stuff. They skip it both because they don't know it and they have no PERSPECTIVE to know they need to chase it.

 

And you know, in their family, maybe her work was honors work. They're just saying they're proud of her to the degree they know and understand things. What you see on the boards here is NOT the norm. Hopefully she'll go and do great. She may even come back home for a while and want some help, in which case you, the co-op, etc. are there. ;) That GED was just a formality. She's got the rest of her life to sort out now.

[8filltheheart]

My oldest ds and I had a lot of disagreements over what was appropriate level high school work bc of his friends AND their parents. Their parentswere telling him that I made him do too much work and that I didn't know what constituted high school equivalencies. grrrrrrr!!!!! It did create a lot of friction but I simply stood my ground and told him that my job was to help him achieve his educational/career objectives (chemical engineer) and that in order to succeed, he needed a solid college prep education and that was exactly what he was getting.

 

He called me during the first semester of his freshman yr and simply said,"Mom, I have something I need to tell you. Thank you." That was the total that he said, but I knew exactly what he meant. His friends were struggling with classes, even those at the CC in remedial courses, and some failing almost all of them.

 

Ds graduated with honors from his program with multiple job offers. :)

 

Fwiw, the "with honors" is meaningless on a homeschool transcript. Transcripts need to be supported with course descriptions, test scores. Level of achievement is easily identified by what courses are taken when. Stand firm, mom. You are doing the right thing and the "proof is in the pudding." Unfortunately my ds's friends witness it, but they don't understand why ds is so "lucky." They don't recognize that it isn't luck but hard-worked for achievement.

[Vida Winter]

Why should you care what they do? When graduation time rolls around it will be clear that your children are prepared for college and the other kids will not be prepared. The ACT/SAT and other tests will tell a truer story. Don't apologize for what you do, and don't beat yourself up over it. Keep doing what you know is right for your children. I also wouldn't encourage them to hang around those kids.

[klmama]

Don't worry. Do what you know is best. Try to find a few kids for yours to hang out with whose parents make them work hard.

[Miss Marple]

I can commiserate with you :) We had families of that kind in our co-op. I was accused of pushing too hard, etc. I have friends who graduated their kids at 16 along with my son who actually did 4 years of high school - that kind of made the ceremony weird, IMO. But they are doing what they can do...and if that is heading them out of the house with a GED, well, that's what they can do. It was difficult when my kids were influenced by the "relaxed" homeschoolers. Now that they are older and in college they understand *why* I schooled the way I did. They see the product of the other method and they see the struggle of those kids. I'm pleased to say that several of those kids have taken responsibility for their education and are doing well. They just had a rocky start. I told the boys daily, "well, God gave you to me not to them so you'll just have to do it my way."

[MomatHWTK]

I would probably come down pretty hard on my kids for thinking that they could do what everyone else was doing. I'm not raising other peoples' kids and my children aren't entitled to something just because someone else has it. So basically, I wouldn't take that kind of pouting from my own kids. They could just as easily be complaining about the kids who get to quit public school at 16 and get a GED.

[Calm37]

I have been a little more fortunate than this because my kids have thanked me for requiring more of them than come of their friends are doing. I still wish I could be as rigorous as you! I wanted to be the mom that teaches writing well, but it hasn't happened. Somehow they are learning to write in spite of me.

 

I agree with the other poster that these parents may have given their children all they had to give and need them to move on in their education. The "honors" thing will bring a wake-up call if those kids are really believing they are "all that." LOL

 

I don't understand why your kids want to be like them. Perhaps they need some ownership of their education? Is it time to have a family conversation about educational values?

 

Cathy M.

[Farmgirl70]

Hang in there! You are doing what you believe to be best for your children. Even if they don't see it now, they will thank you in college. It will make their lives so much easier then to be well read, to have experience writing, and to have grappled with thinking a great deal and have been exposed to information.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Am I missing something here?? My kids are doing 4 full years of high school. They are reading serious books and writing serious papers.

If your goal is to prepare your dc for GED and CC, perhaps you are over preparing them. I suspect that you are preparing them for a stronger academic setting, but I could be wrong. (I hope I am not offending anyone who prepared their CC bound dc with 4 full years of high school including reading serious books and writing serious papers).

 

Just because the dc enroll in CC does not mean that they will succeed in CC either.

 

Why am I taking this so personally? :(

Because when a homeschooler graduates a dc "with honors" but no rigorous academics, it reflects poorly on all homeschoolers.

 

:grouphug: The theory is that one day they will thank us, right?

[BakersDozen]

If your goal is to prepare your dc for GED and CC, perhaps you are over preparing them. I suspect that you are preparing them for a stronger academic setting, but I could be wrong. (I hope I am not offending anyone who prepared their CC bound dc with 4 full years of high school including reading serious books and writing serious papers).

Eventually 4-year university will be in order but for right now, CC is the next step. Perhaps that is not ideal, particularly given the academic rigor I'm putting my dc through, but they want to stay local (this mama is not going to argue with them, lol!). I want them to experience AP because 1) I know they can do it and 2) It will be an excellent experience, especially the writing component. They will have to apply for scholarships and having Honors/AP on their transcript will help with that.

 

I sat at the table with 2 of my older dc and said that I hope they do not resent the education I have put on them. My son, the silent one usually, said, "Mom, all I have to do is be around my friends and I realize how much we know and how much they don't." OK, I cried. They are slowly seeing that what they are learning is worth it. I think it is a struggle sometimes for my oldest dd to see her friends living the life they do (CC, part-time jobs, etc.) but that will all come soon enough, she knows.

 

Thanks, ladies. I know I shouldn't personalize this, that my family and our educational decisions are ours alone. It's confusing, sometimes, having so many options and ways of doing things.

[Luanne]

Sounds like she maxed out what her parents could do for her. It's not what we'd do, because we understand that going in on your GED is unnecessary (dual enrollment and holding out for a full diploma) is better. The parents may even recant. Think about it. She gets into cc and doesn't do well because of her poor background, then what happens? But it is true that in some states you have to take an exam (CHSPE, the equivalent of a GED in CA, for instance) to take classes at the cc. Homeschoolers take it, do dual enrollment, and they keep right on calling themselves homeschoolers.

 

In her case, it really sounds like they maxed out what they could do for her. It's not what you might prefer, but maybe it's better that she stay home another 2 years and continue that way? Maybe this way she gets challenged and actually taught. Probably they'll get their bubble burst. But it's really their deal. There are so many paths.

 

As for your kids, well sorry but I'm kind of snide. There are communities where people are hobbits and just need a little Took. They get stuck and never really look beyond to know what's out there that they might reach for. Teach your kids who they are. A GED won't get your kids what they want (most likely), and once they understand that, maybe they can have some perspective. That family made their choice, but your family makes yours. It's a great big world, and you want your education to open doors, not shut them.

 

Sorry, but it sounds to me like you are just trying to make excuses for this family not wanting to actually educate their children. If they are going to do that, they may as well have sent their children to public school.

[regentrude]

Because when a homeschooler graduates a dc "with honors" but no rigorous academics, it reflects poorly on all homeschoolers.

 

This, exactly. That's why this bothers me as well, because it contributes to prejudices about homeschool education, and it might quite possibly be our children who encounter these prejudices from people who have only known this type of homeschooler.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Sorry, but it sounds to me like you are just trying to make excuses for this family not wanting to actually educate their children. If they are going to do that, they may as well have sent their children to public school.

 

 

There are other reasons for not sending kids to ps beyond academics. We have no idea what this family's story is, or why their kids are graduating too early with an inaccurate label of "honors." They may have overcome tremendous difficulties with relationships, learning disabilities, social problems, or something else. They may be very proud that they got as far as they did, and the work and sacrifice involved may have been so tremendous that they feel justified in giving themselves a distinction of honor. Or they may be total slackers. What business is it of ours? The kids are prepared for the GED. That standard is not top flight but it is acceptable for ps students, so why not for them?

 

The only takeaway I'd focus on here, if humanly possible (and, OP, I would also be crying into my Mike's lemonade over elements of this) is to worry about my own kids' perceptions. Why do they envy a low standard? Why do they think it's alright to compare? Are they invested in their own education or not?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If I had any relationship at all with these people I might ask their mother about the "Honors" thing. I wouldn't just nod and smile about that if I knew their children didn't even get past 10th grade math.

[BakersDozen]

If I had any relationship at all with these people I might ask their mother about the "Honors" thing. I wouldn't just nod and smile about that if I knew their children didn't even get past 10th grade math.

Just got an email response from one mom. I sent out a very light-hearted email asking for tips on accelerating school, not doing Algebra 2, graduating with Honors, etc. Nothing offensive, just seeking help and insights.

 

Turns out one girl is running her ignorant mouth off. Her parents prematurely gave her a diploma last year with an Honors designation when they thought she would graduate with Honors (still not sure how they thought she would do that given the courses she took but whatever). The girl has not graduated at all, is working on her GED, and "tested out" of Algebra 2 (meaning she went through the book, took the tests, and if she passed - not sure what a passing grade is but for me it would a "B" or higher - and tested out). So the nonsense about not needing Algebra 2 is just that - nonsense.

 

The only takeaway I'd focus on here, if humanly possible (and, OP, I would also be crying into my Mike's lemonade over elements of this) is to worry about my own kids' perceptions. Why do they envy a low standard? Why do they think it's alright to compare? Are they invested in their own education or not?

Excellent point and one I am pursuing with my kids. Initially, I know they viewed their friends as having the good life. They are now moving toward seeing that their friends are woefully ignorant and have a weak education. I am sure they will continue to see the results of these things as time goes on. It was hard, though, having that comparison of other families. My oldest daughter would like nothing more than to not have to focus so much on academics, even though she is a stellar student.

 

Thank you ALL for your gracious and wonderful responses. What in the world would I do without this board??

[Amominfl]

I get this some with my DS. He wants to be a neurosurgeon and his older brother just came home from China 2 yrs ago. DS2 complains that DS1 doesnt have to do as much. I tell my DS that he wants to go to Los Angeles and his brother wants to go to Atlanta (we live in FL). I explain to him that if I put them on the same path, then they will end up in the same place. I need to tailor their schooling to their desires and capabilities so they end up where they want to go. I think he finally understands now why his brother isn't required to do the same volume/level of work as his older brother.

[PeterPan]

Eventually 4-year university will be in order but for right now, CC is the next step. Perhaps that is not ideal, particularly given the academic rigor I'm putting my dc through, but they want to stay local (this mama is not going to argue with them, lol!).

 

Not that it's any of my business, but I think when you're in a community that *is* pretty homogenous one way and sort of stuck, it's good to bust out and go AWAY, anywhere. Not everyone needs that, but sometimes that's what it takes to see the world is a big place, that some people think differently, and that you can dream bigger. So when you say you're not going to argue with them on staying, I'd actually suggest you consider the opposite. Just a thought. My family is from an area like that.

[Farmgirl70]

One more thought that I've pondered as my kids start college or looking at college...I didn't educate them just to prepare them for college. I want them to engage in learning, to become people who think and read, who are capable and confident. I want them to be exposed broadly. I want them to have interesting experiences. And I want all of this no matter what their plans for after homeschooling are. It's just part of what I want to give them as a parent. So, that motivates me to give them the kind of education that I want for them, whether or not they "need" it to move to their next thing, KWIM?

[wingedradical]

A public school child graduating in Arizona in 2013 must have English 4 credits Math 4 credits Science 3 credits Social Studies 3 credits CTE/Fine Art 1 credit Electives 7 credits Total 22 credits

 

Show your children this and the guidelines for these classes which can be found online.

 

I know arguments can be made that teaching children how to learn and to love learning is more important than feeding them facts, but I suspect these children will have problems. The mother of a friend of my son's had him put 2 years of Spanish on his transcript because he'd worked on Power Glide for two years. I told her that wouldn't do but...the college believed her andput him in an advanced class which he, of course, had to drop. I cringed at that - wondering how that college would view the next homeschooling Spanish claim. The young man in question did graduate, but not without some very hard remedial work (not just in Spanish) and he got so-so grades in a not very difficult major. Was working at Walmart last I heard. /-:

 

I'm not saying they won't make it in college -esp if they start in community college where they take anyone, have remedial courses and teachers who don't expect too much. And the CC experience might prepare them for regular college. But tell your children that you insist on more for them.

 

I wonder - has this young lady taken the GED yet?

[klmama]

One more thought that I've pondered as my kids start college or looking at college...I didn't educate them just to prepare them for college. I want them to engage in learning, to become people who think and read, who are capable and confident. I want them to be exposed broadly. I want them to have interesting experiences. And I want all of this no matter what their plans for after homeschooling are. It's just part of what I want to give them as a parent. So, that motivates me to give them the kind of education that I want for them, whether or not they "need" it to move to their next thing, KWIM?

 

Yes. This.

[chiguirre]

Just to play the devil's advocate here, but what's wrong with attending CC the last two years of "high school"? That's very, very common where I live, not only among hsers but also among public and private school students. There are lots of opportunities for dual credit and the CC credits articulate to our state universities, so it's a good way to get a calculus or physics credit.

 

I agree that the bogus "honors diploma" is lame, but it's probably not legally valid anyway. Other than that piece of puffery, this isn't really an unusual path for a 16yo hs kid to follow.

[BakersDozen]

Quick update: Spent almost two hours on the phone with mom of girl who is running her mouth. Oh my, if you all would breathe some kind of prayer for this woman. Things are bad and not just with school. Her dd is making things so difficult with finishing school, her ds has dropped out and refuses to do anything. It's a mess. And yet the mom is letting her dd "walk" with the other graduates this weekend even though she has not completed her work from a year ago. I am so thankful for my family and my dc tonight. :(

[BakersDozen]

A public school child graduating in Arizona in 2013 must have English 4 credits Math 4 credits Science 3 credits Social Studies 3 credits CTE/Fine Art 1 credit Electives 7 credits Total 22 credits

An issue that has cropped up recently is that the local/state homeschool "authority" (AFHE or something like that) is telling parents that their kids graduate when the parents say they do. If the dc is short a math class, no worries. Don't have all their History? Big deal. It's a bit disconcerting.

 

Not that it's any of my business, but I think when you're in a community that *is* pretty homogenous one way and sort of stuck, it's good to bust out and go AWAY, anywhere. Not everyone needs that, but sometimes that's what it takes to see the world is a big place, that some people think differently, and that you can dream bigger. So when you say you're not going to argue with them on staying, I'd actually suggest you consider the opposite. Just a thought. My family is from an area like that.

I actually appreciate what you posted and have pondered this for the last year or so. The trend here is mainly CC (although Embry Riddle is a possibility as well) and that's about it. I have spoken to my dc at length and our tentative/hopeful plan is that in two years I will have 3 graduates, one of whom will have taken a year at CC. If my next two can gain college credit via CLEP or whatever then we will purchase a home in Flagstaff (north of where we live) and the 3 of them can live there while attending NAU. If they attend NAU as freshmen they must live on campus (new policy) and purchase a meal plan ticket (outrageous price for gross food). If they can transfer there then they can live off-campus. They are at the moment thrilled with this idea, especially as this is where dh and I went to school, our home church is there, etc. Fingers crossed that this works out this way... NAU has two sites in town where my dc could also attend; this might be a better choice than CC.

 

I didn't educate them just to prepare them for college. I want them to engage in learning, to become people who think and read, who are capable and confident. I want them to be exposed broadly. I want them to have interesting experiences. And I want all of this no matter what their plans for after homeschooling are. It's just part of what I want to give them as a parent. So, that motivates me to give them the kind of education that I want for them, whether or not they "need" it to move to their next thing,

Ah, I love this! Thanks!

[creekland]

Eventually 4-year university will be in order but for right now, CC is the next step. Perhaps that is not ideal, particularly given the academic rigor I'm putting my dc through, but they want to stay local (this mama is not going to argue with them, lol!). I want them to experience AP because 1) I know they can do it and 2) It will be an excellent experience, especially the writing component. They will have to apply for scholarships and having Honors/AP on their transcript will help with that.

 

 

If they are in their last two years of high school and test into classes, they can start some cc classes now... It's generally a great experience. They still don't graduate high school until the normal time, but they could get some DE classes - and pending where they go afterward - some college credits.

 

I am glad you got to the bottom of the whole scenario - it does help mentally to know what is going on.

[PeterPan]

Sorry, but it sounds to me like you are just trying to make excuses for this family not wanting to actually educate their children. If they are going to do that, they may as well have sent their children to public school.

 

Actually, it's just graciousness. In the case I mentioned, I *knew* the family. The mom didn't know who she was calling, because she just called the university asking the question. I can separate sincerity from result.

 

If you see enough transcripts, you'll see things that you really can't believe people would do. Sometimes these are very good, sincere people who just got in over their heads, got bad advice, etc. Personally, I like our laws here in Ohio. (testing or portfolio review every year) I think it's idealism to say any homeschooling parent will do a good/adequate job simply because they are a sincere parent.

[Jane in NC]

As a member of this community, I have seen a great variety of paths taken by homeschoolers. Within my geographic community, however, the paths were limited with most families choosing the same curricular materials, dual enrollment at the CC, etc.

 

We chose a different path. Few area homeschoolers had heard of TWTM when we started homeschooling, yet it was easier for me to refer to this book than to describe our personal philosophy of education that incorporated elements from this book. When I sought out other homeschooling parents to ask about AP tests or virtual school experiences, they couldn't understand why my son might even travel this route.

 

It is sometimes lonely on the chosen path.

 

The point though is that you have to do what you need to do for your kid, then smile graciously and use the classic Southern expression "Isn't that nice!" when you hear about the brilliance of the rest of humanity.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I was helping present at a Naval Academy admissions forum this week. I took my high schoolers along. My eldest asked on the drive why they were going. I told him that it was a chance to hear a full admissions brief.

 

But just as valuable was sitting in a room of hard charging students from two states asking about AP courses, cc dual enrollment, calculus, etc. Just seeing dozens of other students also focused on competing for hard to get spots was a good thing.

 

You aren't always in the loop for other families' goals and you cannot control the willful blindness some have on what it takes to get certain goals. You shake your head and move on.

 

(I won't argue over the GED and CC. That might meet their needs. But in my area the courses you describe are not at all honors track. Like Regentrude it irritates me to see that label on something that is so far from honors level. )

[creekland]

 

Actually, it's just graciousness. In the case I mentioned, I *knew* the family. The mom didn't know who she was calling, because she just called the university asking the question. I can separate sincerity from result.

 

If you see enough transcripts, you'll see things that you really can't believe people would do. Sometimes these are very good, sincere people who just got in over their heads, got bad advice, etc. Personally, I like our laws here in Ohio. (testing or portfolio review every year) I think it's idealism to say any homeschooling parent will do a good/adequate job simply because they are a sincere parent.

 

 

:iagree: And this is why I like PA's laws too (evaluater review every year, testing in 3rd, 5th, and 8th). There are way too many who fall through the cracks otherwise and I, personally, think education is a right all kids should have. I'm fine with that education coming at home (obviously!), but I want to be sure there is an education provided at least to a minimum standard. Parents on here are seldom the "norm" from what I see of homeschoolers.

[ereks mom]

I can commiserate with you :) We had families of that kind in our co-op. I was accused of pushing too hard, etc. ...It was difficult when my kids were influenced by the "relaxed" homeschoolers. Now that they are older and in college they understand *why* I schooled the way I did. They see the product of the other method and they see the struggle of those kids.

 

 

Yep, I'm right there with you! We had difficulties too. However, our difficulties came when, rather than being jealous of those "relaxed" homeschoolers, my kids were actually indignant that their friends were "making homeschooling look bad". And when ER went to college, he saw the fruits of that kind of homeschooling. Oh, the stories he would tell!

[8filltheheart]

Personally, I like our laws here in Ohio. (testing or portfolio review every year) I think it's idealism to say any homeschooling parent will do a good/adequate job simply because they are a sincere parent.

:iagree: And this is why I like PA's laws too (evaluater review every year, testing in 3rd, 5th, and 8th). There are way too many who fall through the cracks otherwise and I, personally, think education is a right all kids should have. I'm fine with that education coming at home (obviously!), but I want to be sure there is an education provided at least to a minimum standard. Parents on here are seldom the "norm" from what I see of homeschoolers.

 

I disagree that more oversight equates to better outcomes. If it did, ps outcomes would be phenomenal.....can't have more oversight and control than that. Inequities are going to exist regardless of laws/interventions/oversight. Whether it starts in the home or fails in a school, children exposed to the same material are not going to work at the same level to achieve. What is eventually described by the OP as what is really occurring is not educational neglect. It sounds more rebellion and refusal to work.

 

ETA: I should add that by no means do I like the slack view that many homeschoolers present to the community at large. I simply do not believe regulations will change anything. The attitudes we have experienced are deeply ingrained and laws would not have changed anything. They would have simply continued to follow the lowest parameters required.....which in reality are not very high and they were surpassing those. They were simply not solid college prep materials. But neither are ps's. If ps's were, the stats of high school grads needing remediation would not be as shockingly high as they are.

[G5052]

I was helping present at a Naval Academy admissions forum this week. I took my high schoolers along. My eldest asked on the drive why they were going. I told him that it was a chance to hear a full admissions brief.

 

But just as valuable was sitting in a room of hard charging students from two states asking about AP courses, cc dual enrollment, calculus, etc. Just seeing dozens of other students also focused on competing for hard to get spots was a good thing.

 

I love teens. I truly do. But even mine seem to think that the world is just what they see around them. Dual enrollment is fairly common in our circles, but we're alone when it comes to doing Latin through the AP level, calculus, senior projects, etc. etc. Mine are out of a local program because the vision was too narrow for their capabilities. At one point the negative academic peer pressure was really bad.

 

And so yes, I haul them out to be present anywhere that they can be exposed to the next level of achievement. Not because they have to do that, but I want them to know that they can do that. It is a hard, hard world out there, and I want them to be ready for anything and developing their potential. Knowing how to learn and deal with the complexity of life is very important. DH and I are both actively working in areas that we did *not* study formally. We want ours to be ready for that.

 

And frankly I don't say anything about people's priorities and plans unless they ask. I know plenty of people who are cutting corners with kids who are quite capable. It's sad, but that's the dark underbelly of homeschooling. The public education where I live is just the same. The percentage of graduates requiring remedial English and math at the local community college is staggering. No way would I send one of mine there unless there was absolutely no alternative. The public high schools cut way too many corners and don't expect enough, even in the honors and AP classes.

[8filltheheart]

I love teens. I truly do. But even mine seem to think that the world is just what they see around them.

 

I think this is true of almost all teens. It is why I am so thankful for summer camps. My kids get to see what other really focused, passionate students are like and can share their enthusiasm with others w/o being looked at like they have 2 heads. :p

[Ellie]

But it is true that in some states you have to take an exam (CHSPE, the equivalent of a GED in CA, for instance) to take classes at the cc.

 

Rabbit trail!

 

Are you saying that homeschoolers in CA *must* take the CHSPE in order to attend c.c.?

[JennW in SoCal]

 

Rabbit trail!

 

Are you saying that homeschoolers in CA *must* take the CHSPE in order to attend c.c.?

 

 

 

No. The reference to the CHSPE from Oh Elizabeth was an off-hand comment, and not intended, I'm sure, as a representation of the cold, hard facts.

 

You do not need the CHSPE to take community college classes as high schoolers are allowed, depending on the district, to take one or two courses per semester. If you want to attend the cc full time, however, you would need the CHSPE. Otherwise you would need to present a proof of graduation from high school.

 

The CHSPE, further more, is NOT the same as a GED. Loosely, perhaps, but not really. A student can re-enroll in high school after passing the CHSPE, where as the GED means you are done with high school. And don't you need to be older to take the GED??? The CHSPE is for students who have completed 10th grade who need to work full time or to move on to the cc full time.

 

Most independent homeschoolers I know in So Cal have taken the CHSPE after 10th grade and gone onto the community college. Some then transfer, others, like my ds, treat it like the last part of high school and then apply to college as freshman.

[Jenny in Florida]

You do not need the CHSPE to take community college classes as high schoolers are allowed, depending on the district, to take one or two courses per semester. If you want to attend the cc full time, however, you would need the CHSPE. Otherwise you would need to present a proof of graduation from high school.

 

The CHSPE, further more, is NOT the same as a GED. Loosely, perhaps, but not really. A student can re-enroll in high school after passing the CHSPE, where as the GED means you are done with high school. And don't you need to be older to take the GED??? The CHSPE is for students who have completed 10th grade who need to work full time or to move on to the cc full time.

 

 

 

Please understand my own experience was rougly 100 years ago when I was a teen, but at that point, the rule was that there were several routes into community college:

 

1. Graduate from high school.

2. Dual enroll with permission from your high school.

3. Be 18 years old.

 

Both the GED and the CHSPE are considered legally equivalent to a high school diploma in California and, therefore, fulfill the first requirement listed above.

 

One has to be at least 16 to take the GED, whereas there seems to be no age limit on the CHSPE. I took it at age 15, although I stayed in high school until the end of the semester, which made me 16 by the time I moved over to the community college full time. But I "know" a few moms online whose kids have taken the test younger, including one whose daughter recently did so at age 9 in order to enroll in some community college classes.

[Ellie]

No. The reference to the CHSPE from Oh Elizabeth was an off-hand comment, and not intended, I'm sure, as a representation of the cold, hard facts.

 

You do not need the CHSPE to take community college classes as high schoolers are allowed, depending on the district, to take one or two courses per semester. If you want to attend the cc full time, however, you would need the CHSPE. Otherwise you would need to present a proof of graduation from high school.

 

The CHSPE, further more, is NOT the same as a GED. Loosely, perhaps, but not really. A student can re-enroll in high school after passing the CHSPE, where as the GED means you are done with high school. And don't you need to be older to take the GED??? The CHSPE is for students who have completed 10th grade who need to work full time or to move on to the cc full time.

 

Most independent homeschoolers I know in So Cal have taken the CHSPE after 10th grade and gone onto the community college. Some then transfer, others, like my ds, treat it like the last part of high school and then apply to college as freshman.

 

 

Both of my daughters began taking classes at the c.c. in San Jose when they were 14. Neither took the CHSPE. None of the many hsers I knew then ever took the CHSPE or showed proof of high school graduation, and all were allowed to take as many classes as they could handle. Perhaps the law has changed since then; also, individual c.c. can make up their own rules, apparently; Evergreen Valley College (and San Jose City College) had a category of student called "Student Under 18 Not Enrolled in High School." These students were not considered dual-enrolled; they were college students and earned college credit (and they paid tuition like all other college students). Some of the c.c. in the area, however, did designate homeschoolers as dual-enrolled, and they had to have permission from the principals of their schools. :-) But none of them ever had to have a CHSPE or proof of high school graduation.

 

I believe 18 is the minimum age for the GED (except in special circumstances...and I don't remember what those are, lol, as we never had to deal with it). The CHSPE is equivalent to a high school diploma in California; students have to be either 16 or in the second semester of 10th grade; they don't have to have a reason to take it. ;-)

 

It is also possible that the public high schools have set their own requirements for releasing students from high school attendance to go to c.c. As homeschoolers are private school students, the public high school requirements wouldn't affect them.

[Jenny in Florida]

It is also possible that the public high schools have set their own requirements for releasing students from high school attendance to go to c.c.

 

When I left my public school to enroll at the community college, I needed parental permission to drop out of high school. Again, this was more years ago than I would care to admit. So, I cannot speak to what the laws or rules are now.

[AuntPol]

I totally understand. We've been homeschooling five years. I have not seen any graduates yet who went to a university yet. So far, everyone is going to Community college (though all are graduating at 17/18 with their peer groups -one or two actually a year behind). I don't really see much wrong with it for those families. Most of the kids are good kids and will do well once they get going. It does make it hard when I want to join an academic co-op and my rising 8th grader has done all of their high school options lol. A few I wonder about though as they graduated with less than what my rising 8^th grader has (but I think there are some learning issues involved so I try not to judge).

 

 

 

However, I did meet one mom that totally made me shake my head. She wanted to graduate her daughter after 8^th grade. They don’t really do school. The daughter learns Japanese online and reads some books here and there on Japan and some anime. She is not allowed to read anything that the mom feels is unchristian (linked me and our pastor about the evils of hunger games). She has never written an essay, a research paper, etc. She has not had pre-algebra yet much less algebra. She’s not done any science. The mom’s reason for graduating her is that she works on a 12^th grade level (Based on CAT test –which I tried to explain two years in a row doesn’t mean what she thinks) AND her daughter wants to move to Japan. She thinks if she graduates her, she can get a scholarship and go to Japan now.

[Catwoman]

Not that it's any of my business, but I think when you're in a community that *is* pretty homogenous one way and sort of stuck, it's good to bust out and go AWAY, anywhere. Not everyone needs that, but sometimes that's what it takes to see the world is a big place, that some people think differently, and that you can dream bigger. So when you say you're not going to argue with them on staying, I'd actually suggest you consider the opposite. Just a thought. My family is from an area like that.

 

Did womanintheshoe mention that she lives in a homogenous community, or were you just speaking in general? I didn't get the impression from any of her posts that there was any reason why her kids shouldn't be encouraged to attend the local cc if that's what they would prefer.

 

Not all kids want to go away to college, and most of them seem to do just fine whether or not they live away from home while they pursue their degrees. (Also, not all "university towns" are exactly in cultural meccas. ;) I'm from the NYC area, and some of my friends "went away" to school in small towns with very little diversity... and they seemed happy with their choices.)

 

I think it all depends on the individual kid.

[Ellie]

When I left my public school to enroll at the community college, I needed parental permission to drop out of high school. Again, this was more years ago than I would care to admit. So, I cannot speak to what the laws or rules are now.

 

 

Dropping out of a public school and enrolling in a community college may be different than a homeschooled student enrolling in a community college. Also, the laws and policies vary widely from state to state, and sometimes even within the same state.

[Jenny in Florida]

 

Dropping out of a public school and enrolling in a community college may be different than a homeschooled student enrolling in a community college. Also, the laws and policies vary widely from state to state, and sometimes even within the same state.

 

Well, the CHSPE exists only on California. (It's what the "C" part indicates.) That's where I grew up.

 

I don't claim to have a thorough knowledge of every law or policy regarding homeschool enrollment in community college across the state of California. I was simply sharing my own knowledge/experience, in case it might be helpful or interesting to anyone.

 

Apparently, it isn't.

[Ellie]

Well, the CHSPE exists only on California. (It's what the "C" part indicates.) That's where I grew up.

 

I don't claim to have a thorough knowledge of every law or policy regarding homeschool enrollment in community college across the state of California. I was simply sharing my own knowledge/experience, in case it might be helpful or interesting to anyone.

 

Apparently, it isn't.

 

Yes, I know what the "C" stands for. The test is the California High School Proficiency Exam. :-)

 

And I expanded on your experience by sharing my own. :-)