Just how wrong does a "pyschic" have to be to be "wrong"? - Sylvia Browne

[nmoira]

I was listening to a podcast this morning that made mention of Amanda Berry's mother, Louwana having consulted psychic Sylvia Browne on the Montel Williams show about her daugher's disappearance. Browne told her Amanda was dead, and Louana gave up hope, ceasing searching for her daughter even though the FBI was still active on the case, and her family characterized her death as having been from a broken heart about a year later. It makes me see red, especially since a member of Berry's family this week assured Browne that she not only didn't blame her, but that Browne was "right" about some aspects of the case.

 

Excerpt from here.

Sherry Cole, Amanda Berry's cousin, reached out to Browne Wednesday morning to offer her love and support, according to Browne's public relations rep. Cole reportedly wanted to let Browne know that Browne had been accurate in her description of the perpetrators at the time.

 

“Our family in no way blames Sylvia. This doesn’t change anything. We still love her and believe in her," said Cole in a statement forwarded to HuffPost by Brown's rep

 

Here are a few articles, and lots of statistics on psychic predictions:

 

Sylvia Browne: fans lash out at 'psychic' over false Ohio abduction prediction

Investigative Intuition: Do psychics ever solve crimes? Why do police consult them?

Sylvia Browne's Failed Amanda Berry Prediction Returns To Haunt Her

 

And an older (and fascinating) profile by Jon Ronson:

Sylvia Browne: is she for real?

[stripe]

People watch those experts on Sunday morning talk shows, too, and they've been shown to rarely be right in their predictions. I have no idea what the appeal is. I see no reason why they are better qualified than I am to give their opinion. I quote some guy to my husband recently; he was some tech expert, and he was genuinely shocked people weren't buying mini-tablets on top of iPads AND smart phones (not to mention any laptop or other computer or e-readers). Really? It never occurred to him that not everyone wants to pay for three or more small internet-connecting devices to drag around with them?

[Kathryn]

I think she's despicable.

[unsinkable]

I enjoy this blog about Statement Analysis and what he has to say about psychics:

 

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2013/05/sylvia-brown-fraud-revealed.html

 

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2012/12/revisiting-psychics-and-missing-children.html

 

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2012/10/investigative-percentages.html

 

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2012/12/psychic-sued-for-police-hoax-massacre.html

[unsinkable]

This is good info, too, on how they work:

 

http://www.skepdic.com/coldread.html

 

http://www.skeptic.com/downloads/10_Easy_Psychic_Lessons.pdf

 

And look for Penn Gillette debunks cold reads on YouTube.

[Orthodox6]

Psychics = quackery (at best) OR = demonic (at worst)

[Jeannie in NJ]

I think they are all flim-flam artists. No one should tell a parent their child is dead unless they have absolute proof. I truly believe people can die from extreme broken hearts. I never believed in broken hearts until my mother was killed (20 years ago) and my heart was in such pain it was horrible. Obviously I survived but my actual heart was hurting, there is no better way to explain it.

[unfrumpable.]

Well, this brings to mind a certain South Park episode. Plus an episode of L&O: SVU with Martin Short. Martin Short plays the psychic helping the police and also ends up being the serial killer (IIRC). It was a good episode.

 

As for me personally, the only psychic I'll trust is Shawn Spencer. :lol:

[Elizabeth in MN]

IMO, there are real psychics. They don't charge money for services, though. I gave up on Sylvia Brown when she said Gore would win the 2000 election over Bush.

[WishboneDawn]

IMO, there are real psychics. They don't charge money for services, though. I gave up on Sylvia Brown when she said Gore would win the 2000 election over Bush.

 

I think there may be talented cold readers out there who aren't quite aware of how they pick out the information they do. I think there's a lot of selection bias and hopeful memories in people who deal with psychics. But for me to believe in psychics anymore (as I did when I was younger) there would have to be proof. There has never been proof of any sort. There have only ever been people exposed as hot and/or cold readers (or just complete jerks).

 

It's an extraordinary claim. I demand overwhelming evidence.

 

[annandatje]

Any of us here could make guesses about events that transpired over course of tragic long term kidnapping and be accurate in part. None of us, self-proclaimed psychics included, can provide long term consistently reliable information about people or events unknown to us. People who want to fully believe in seers will practice positive confirmation bias; they will seize upon hits and minimize the misses. As another poster stated, most of it is talented cold reading done by people with sharp intuition. Someone mentioned the South Park episode; strangely one of my adult children had an experience just like the SP episode; my child was the one who was demonstrating how cold reading worked to a gullible friend. Actually he is quite good at it because he has a sharply honed intuition for a young person.

[annandatje]

double post

[Jan in SC]

 

 

As for me personally, the only psychic I'll trust is Shawn Spencer. :lol:

 

I was going to post the exact same thing!!!

[Mrs Mungo]

Actually he is quite good at it because he has a sharply honed intuition for a young person.

 

 

What does this mean? What does it mean to have sharp intuition? How is it different from being psychic?

[SarahW]

What does this mean? What does it mean to have sharp intuition? How is it different from being psychic?

 

 

From one of the articles the op posted:

 

Famous sceptics such as James Randi say Sylvia is not a silly, deluded person who believes herself to be psychic. They say she's a callous fraud. She's just a good cold reader.

Cold reading is the stage art of convincing a stranger you know more about them than you actually do. Good cold readers are brilliant observers. They make high-probability guesses about their subject based on their clothes, race, age, etc. They quickly pick up on signals as to whether or not their guesses are in the right direction, and alter their spiel accordingly. Of course, cold reading is easiest to spot when the psychic does it badly. This morning, Colette, Sylvia's co-psychic, seemed to be cold reading badly.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

From one of the articles the op posted:

 

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I know what cold reading is. Your quote in no way answered my question about what it means to have sharp intuition. ETA: I believe in intuition. Even the Penn Jillette interview talks about the woman they used having a lot of empathy. I agree that these things can look like psychic ability. I am still not sure how one "proves" intuition or empathy either. I am pondering it.

[SarahW]

Oh, because the person you were responding to seemed to be relating an instance of cold reading.

[goldberry]

Exploiting the pain and yearning of someone who has lost a loved one is the lowest form of low.

 

FWIW, I do know someone who is deeply intuitive/empathetic/however you want to phrase it. She is nothing like the people I see that put themselves out there to say "hey look at me..." I have known two people like that actually, and they are among the most humble people I've known.

 

ETA, both also deplored the term psychic and would never have applied it to themselves.

[Tap]

What does this mean? What does it mean to have sharp intuition? How is it different from being psychic?

To me....(not op) having intuition is attaching a feeling to an event/person/happenstance. As opposed to, a person who believes themselves to be psychic, feels that their interpretation of event is the true way things occurred. ie a person who uses trusts their intuition may say something like 'I don't like the feeling I get when I am around Mike, he gives me the creeps by the way he looks at my little sister'. Someone who claims to be psychic my say 'I have a psychic sense/vision/dead person telling me (etc) that Mike has hurt little girls. We need to stay away from him." Feeling vs Fact.

[unfrumpable.]

So, is intuition just unconsciously picking up on the same signals that cold reader consciously picks up on?

[unfrumpable.]

I was going to post the exact same thing!!!

 

 

Great minds and all that. :) I love your avatar saying!

[Tap]

My sister works as an intuitive counselor, and is paid to function like a psychic by her clients. She uses a plain deck of card to guide her 'sessions'. When I was in my 30s she used to do readings for me. She was about average for getting things right, but often got major things wrong also. It was fun entertainment, but I never really bought the whole bit. Her disclaimer for this is that future events can changed by 'willful' actions, so the path she sees on Tues may be changed by an action I take on Wednesday. I felt that her abilities were more 'wishful thinking' on her part than true ability. She has someone she respected telling her she was special. She wanted to be special, and by labeling herself as psychic, she was special. She is good at intuition, having gut feeling about events, but when she started presenting those feelings as facts, I started believing her less and less. (sorry, enter key not working- new paragraph) One time I took a trip with her, and her bff who was a very well regarded psychic. (She is the on who 'taught' my sister to give a reading). The bff was paid several hundred per session and booked months in advance. One day, we were all in the car, and they started telling me that I also had very strong psychic abilities and should start doing readings too. They were telling me that my abilities may be even stronger than themselves, and what a waste it was that I wasn't using them. They went on an on about it. LOLOLOLO That was the last day I ever took a think they had to say seriously. I have no psychic ability. I do have strong intuitions about people. I am sometimes right, key word, sometimes. Just because my feelings are strong about something, doesn't mean that it is correct. I suspect my sister is like me. Maybe she doesn't realize that it is just watching for the lies people tell, or that it is the way someone carries themselves that gives us the little clues, but the clues are there. It just takes the right person to look for them and to actually see them.

[gardenmom5]

I have no idea what the appeal is.

 

some people just want to know what is coming around the corner. they want "spoilers" so to speak. they don't want to deal in unknowns.

when I was 13 - the "church" (I use that term VERY loosely) my parents attended had a palm reader at a halloween carnival. she had many negatives to say. (I was told I would marry and divorce multiple times. It really stuck with me. I'm still on dh 1.0) As I grew older, I came to understand just how much damage these people can do, especially to those who are very naive.

[Tap]

So, is intuition just unconsciously picking up on the same signals that cold reader consciously picks up on?

Yes, and no. A cold reader is more likely to use generalizations. I will use myself for short example. A cold reader would see that I do not have a wedding ring, no a suntan line, no crease from one. Since I am in my 40s, and have a poochy belly that screams "I have had kids", a cold reader will likely assume I have kids but have been divorced for several years (long enough for my ring to have been long gone). An intuitive person may notice that I am not looking at the yummy man that just walked by, am a comfortable size 8 (not trying to be on the 'market', but still take care of myself). He may see that I say 'we went to the mountains' or 'we went to dinner' and put it together that I have a 'we' in my life. When I mention the kids father I call him 'Richard' not, 'my Ex' or 'sperm donor'. He may also notice that all of the kids have the same 'Richard' in their lives. (Richard and the kids went sailing etc ) By putting these clues together, the intuitive may 'feel' that I am married to the father of my kids. It doesn't mean that either is correct. It is just a guess on both of their parts. There could also be cross over between the two, as in the intuitive may also not that I have zero jewelry on, so maybe I just don't wear a ring. Or the Cold reader may notice my 'we' statements and assume I am dating someone.

[albeto]

So, is intuition just unconsciously picking up on the same signals that cold reader consciously picks up on?

 

I think this is it. Our brains pick up on all kinds of cues, access memories, make predictions based on a quick analysis of facts, and contributes umpteen other factors when thinking, but we're not aware of many (most?) of them happening. I suspect the concept of intuition is really the concept of making an accurate prediction when the many variables we would use to make that prediction simply aren't on our conscious radar. When events confirm these predictions, we assume we knew "somehow" when in fact we knew by the complex process of higher order thinking skills. All those predictions that are never confirmed are forgotten in a sea of a bazillion other things that require our attention.

[Annie Laurie]

Didn't she also tell Shawn Hornbeck's family that he was dead, and then he was later found alive?

[stripe]

IMO, there are real psychics. They don't charge money for services, though. I gave up on Sylvia Brown when she said Gore would win the 2000 election over Bush.

 

Oh, goodness, I had no idea she had attempted to become a political expert too. Sheesh.

[Lilaclady]

Wow just wow

[BarbecueMom]

Didn't she also tell Shawn Hornbeck's family that he was dead, and then he was later found alive?

 

 

Yes, she did. I grew up very close to where he was abducted, and I don't know of anyone that thought he was still alive. Everyone thought he had been hit by a car or stumbled upon a meth lab and killed. I think if she'd claimed he was alive, everyone really would have thought she was a nut.

[unfrumpable.]

I think this is it. Our brains pick up on all kinds of cues, access memories, make predictions based on a quick analysis of facts, and contributes umpteen other factors when thinking, but we're not aware of many (most?) of them happening. I suspect the concept of intuition is really the concept of making an accurate prediction when the many variables we would use to make that prediction simply aren't on our conscious radar. When events confirm these predictions, we assume we knew "somehow" when in fact we knew by the complex process of higher order thinking skills. All those predictions that are never confirmed are forgotten in a sea of a bazillion other things that require our attention.

 

 

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. :)

[KungFuPanda]

Maybe to a person who has trouble reading or connecting to other people, a well-developed sense of empathy seems like a super power? My husband just isn't all that interested in people and I swear that he thinks some of the normal, easy things I pick up about them is some sort of female voodoo.

[Mrs Mungo]

Maybe to a person who has trouble reading or connecting to other people, a well-developed sense of empathy seems like a super power? My husband just isn't all that interested in people and I swear that he thinks some of the normal, easy things I pick up about them is some sort of female voodoo.

 

And this is sort of what I mean. I think there are a lot of things we pick up, both consciously and unconsciously. Those gut feelings all put together could look a lot like being "psychic." There are things I have experienced and people close to me have experienced that are unexplained by what we think of as the normal way of knowing things. Is that what some people might describe as psychic? Again, just pondering the question.

[Laurie4b]

It is shocking that someone would tell a parent whether their child was or wasn't alive: some have false hope; others may give up searching for a child who is still out there. It is incredibly cruel.

[Audrey]

I wish people would stop saying Sylvia Browne is just a good cold reader... because she isn't. She's actually not very good at it at all. If you ever saw a really good, slick cold reader, you'd know just how 'meh' at it Sylvia is. But, she's written books, and been on tv, so she's got cred.

 

Insert Barnum's quote here.

 

Sylvia doesn't work for free, you know.

[albeto]

And this is sort of what I mean. I think there are a lot of things we pick up, both consciously and unconsciously. Those gut feelings all put together could look a lot like being "psychic." There are things I have experienced and people close to me have experienced that are unexplained by what we think of as the normal way of knowing things. Is that what some people might describe as psychic? Again, just pondering the question.

 

I think this describes a lot of systems of trying to understand things, from psychic/ESP to applied kinesiology to mainstream religion. The brain takes in a tremendous amount if information, both externally and internally, and responds to countless stimuli simultaneously.