PSA for Kindle users: books become unavailable

[regentrude]

Kindle users beware. Two weeks ago, I bought some kindle books for DD for her birthday. When she attempted to download them today, she was informed that the books are no longer available in the US. A chat with amazon's customer service revealed that, had she downloaded them immediately, she would have received the books. So, do not think that books you bought or gave as gifts may still be available a short time later. Download immediately.

I am quite displeased that they had not bothered to inform me - after all, they are sending loads of emails all.the.time.

[nmoira]

Gah! How is that being resolved? Is your money being refunded?

[QuirkyKapers]

Thanks for letting us know! I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem not to download immediately.

[ErinE]

Thank you for letting us know. I purchase Kindle books often, and wouldn't think that I must download immediately. I hope you get your funds back.

[regentrude]

Gah! How is that being resolved? Is your money being refunded?

 

 

Yes, I will receive a refund.

I am still miffed because DD was really looking forward to those books (and we are planning a road trip, so she needs something to read on her kindle)

I will purchase them in paperback now, but NOT from amazon.

[Reflections]

Oh, you have got to be kidding me!!! Oh, for &*@#!$%^&!

 

What about the "cloud"??

[regentrude]

What about the "cloud"??

 

 

If I understand it correctly, the publisher has removed permission for kindle download - so even if they are in the cloud, I am not allowed to access them.

[Reflections]

 

If I understand it correctly, the publisher has removed permission for kindle download - so even if they are in the cloud, I am not allowed to access them.

 

 

 

At the risk of sounding redundant: Oh for crying out loud!!

 

 

Well, thank you for being the canary in that goldmine! I'm glad you got your money back.

[Butter]

That's annoying. But it is not Amazon's fault. It is the publisher's choice to do that. Complain to them.

[Dahliarw]

Wow, didn't know that could happen. I have to imagine it is highly rare since I've never heard of it. And yes, it is a publisher's issue. They are the ones that give and revoke digital rights, not Amazon. I'm glad they are refunding your money. I've always had excellent customer service from Amazon!

[Pawz4me]

I've heard of it happening a few times with various publishers. As already said, it's a publisher issue, not an Amazon issue.

[regentrude]

That's annoying. But it is not Amazon's fault. It is the publisher's choice to do that. Complain to them.

 

 

Oh, I will complain to them.

But I disagree about amazon not being at fault. They are negotiating conditions with the publishers. Retroactively revoking download permission for a purchase that has already taken place is not ok. They are tracking every little move you make on their site and thus certainly have the capability of tracking these things. And no notification is absolutely not acceptable.

[Pippen]

I've heard it happening (understandably) when people have listed unauthorized versions of books on kindle.

[justamouse]

Yeah, I've heard of that and I have to say, the shine has worn off my kindle penny.

[nmoira]

I've heard of it happening a few times with various publishers. As already said, it's a publisher issue, not an Amazon issue.

 

 

This makes me insanely angry... like when I'd put the UK Edition of the Harry Potter e-books in my shopping cart at Pottermore, only to be told at checkout that I couldn't purchase them in my region. (We'd bought the Canadian editions of the physical books, as they have the UK text). I didn't purchase the @* US e-editions because I don't want the @* US e-editions. I'll leave it to your imagination what my next step was, but please remember that I'd had my credit card in hand, ready to purchase.

 

I just don't get why there can't be some "gentlemen's agreement" between rights holders that you can purchase any e-book edition you like, but perhaps with a *small* premium that goes to your local rights holder should you purchase an out-of-region edition. After all, I can purchase any physical edition I like and have it sent to me. This is a big worry I have with e-books.

[Serenade]

Another Amazon weirdness....

 

I bought 3 Kindle downloads last week. I was assessed tax on one of them, but not the others. Normally Amazon does not directly collect the tax for NC, and I was surprised, especially because there is no way to see the actual total before you click "buy." I had a few e-mail back and forths with them, and eventually they said to call, that it was too difficult to resolve through e-mail. LOL. But it turned out to be a publisher issue, too, that the download apparently went directly through the publisher, and not through Amazon, and the publisher assessed the tax. It was Harper Collins, by the way.

 

Now, I don't have so much of a problem with the tax being assessed, but I do have a problem with not being able to see my total charge until AFTER I purchase the item. That's ridiculous. No where have I ever bought an item on the internet and not known what my total was before I clicked "buy," unless there was a note that tax would be determined, and even that has only happened a handful of times. Apparently it is impossible to bypass 1-click, so that one could actually see the purchase summary before buying. The guy I talked to at Amazon was very nice, agreed that this was a problem, and told me that his "team" was working on it. I'll be surprised, however, if this issue is ever resolved. I guess I could totally remove my CC from my Prime account, but then that would make ordering other things more troublesome.

[MtnMama]

I'm in NC and I always have to pay tax on Kindle books. I thought everyone was taxed for those.

[mrs.m]

We've had this happen with a Nook e-book. It's not just Amazon... It's the publishers and their stupidity about e-books. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

[kiwik]

I find the not being able to purchase some kindle books annoying. It is an eBook for heavens sake, I should be able to purchase it from any source that is selling a legal copy.

[elegantlion]

. I guess I could totally remove my CC from my Prime account, but then that would make ordering other things more troublesome.

 

 

You can take your CC off your one-click settings. I don't use one-click that often, so I don't know what happens if the one click CC is not listed.

[Lady Florida.]

That's annoying. But it is not Amazon's fault. It is the publisher's choice to do that. Complain to them.

 

We've had this happen with a Nook e-book. It's not just Amazon... It's the publishers and their stupidity about e-books. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

 

:iagree: Publishers have been foolish when it comes to e-books. Amazon, B&N, Sony, and other makers of e-readers don't have the clout one might think they do.

 

You can take your CC off your one-click settings. I don't use one-click that often, so I don't know what happens if the one click CC is not listed.

 

 

I thought a CC and one-click is required for e-books. I could be thinking of Instant Video, but don't have time to look it up right now.

[Serenade]

I'm in NC and I always have to pay tax on Kindle books. I thought everyone was taxed for those.

 

I've bought about 10 books and was never charged tax, except for the book noted above. It was this one from Harper Collins.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008LUWYSW/ref=oh_d__o02_details_o02__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Serenade]

I thought a CC and one-click is required for e-books. I could be thinking of Instant Video, but don't have time to look it up right now.

 

That's what I was told. Or at least that's what I understood. The guy at Amazon said that it can't be changed. If there is a way to remove it only for one-click, please share Elegantlion. That would solve my problem.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Oh, I will complain to them.

But I disagree about amazon not being at fault. They are negotiating conditions with the publishers. Retroactively revoking download permission for a purchase that has already taken place is not ok. They are tracking every little move you make on their site and thus certainly have the capability of tracking these things. And no notification is absolutely not acceptable.

 

Yep. I have a question though. Since space on a Kindle is limited, we have had to manage space by removing some books to add new ones. I am curious about whether books that have been removed are able to be put back on, if the publisher has rescinded download rights in the meantime. I am with justamouse though. I do not like e-anything, really. Give me a hard copy any day, at this point. I have no trust that electronic resources will ever actually belong to me. I like to own what I buy.

[mrs.m]

Yep. I have a question though. Since space on a Kindle is limited, we have had to manage space by removing some books to add new ones. I am curious about whether books that have been removed are able to be put back on, if the publisher has rescinded download rights in the meantime. I am with justamouse though. I do not like e-anything, really. Give me a hard copy any day, at this point. I have no trust that electronic resources will ever actually belong to me. I like to own what I buy.

 

This problem is easily solved by downloading the Kindle book directly to a file on your PC. You can transfer it via USB at a later time and the usage rights will remain intact. Make sure you back-up your PC so you won't lose them in a crash.

 

The issue above is that it is not available through the cloud. I don't think we should entirely rely on Amazon to store our digital library as that is risky.

[weddell]

I love Amazon, but I'm a big believer in backing up ebooks. Several books that I have bought have later been marked "not available in US" after the fact, but I've always been able to download them anyway. I wonder why you weren't able to? Maybe because mine had been downloaded before and yours hadn't?

 

Anyway, I download all ebooks to my computer and keep a backup. That way if I delete them off my kindle I still have a copy without relying on Amazon. I keep everything organized in Calibre (book database program). If you want to go one step further, you can remove the DRM (although it isn't strictly legal...) I'm not interested in "stealing" or illegally downloading ebooks. I'm happy to pay for the content I read, but I do think I should have the ability to read the content I have paid for on whatever device I choose.

http://calibre-ebook.com/

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2012/06/15/how-add-kindle-drm-removal-plugin-calibre/

[Pawz4me]

I bought 3 Kindle downloads last week. I was assessed tax on one of them, but not the others. Normally Amazon does not directly collect the tax for NC, and I was surprised, especially because there is no way to see the actual total before you click "buy.".

 

I'm in NC, and whether or not tax is assessed depends on the publisher. Taxes have been collected on books from some publishers for a long while now. I've never cared enough to pay attention to which ones. It's a minor irritation to me that you can't tell before one clicking. But I just assume tax is going to be charged on all book purchases (probably will be fairly soon), and if it's not then I'm pleasantly surprised.

[stripe]

Oh, I will complain to them.

But I disagree about amazon not being at fault. They are negotiating conditions with the publishers. Retroactively revoking download permission for a purchase that has already taken place is not ok. They are tracking every little move you make on their site and thus certainly have the capability of tracking these things. And no notification is absolutely not acceptable.

 

They have done this in the past, to both individuals (e.g. Linn Nygaard, who had her Kindle wiped and account deleted) and groups (the 2009 mass delete of Orwell books). So clearly downloading is not even enough!

[Lizzie in Ma]

For this and other reasons, I use Calibre to keep all my books in and plug ins to remove drm immediately.

I bought them, I keep them. Period. Also, I use it to convert Kindle to epub for my kids ereaders and without removing drm, you can't do that either.

I'm sorry she didn't get her books.

[Butter]

They have done this in the past, to both individuals (e.g. Linn Nygaard, who had her Kindle wiped and account deleted) and groups (the 2009 mass delete of Orwell books). So clearly downloading is not even enough!

 

 

The Nygaard case was not all it seemed at first. She actually did break some rules (intentional or not I don't know). They let her have her books back even though, technically, she was at fault. Also, try as they might, no one could find anyone else who had a similar thing happen to them so there was some question as to whether the "facts" (which were only provided by the woman herself) were completely accurate. The deleting of 1984 and Animal Farm was because they were sold by a third-party seller who had no rights to sell them. The actual publisher pulled rank and Amazon had to do as they said. Publishers have a lot of power. Amazon said after the whole to do that they would not do a mass deleting again, but would work harder to be sure the seller has the rights to sell. Downloading is enough... if you download them *to your own computer* as a back-up.

[elegantlion]

That's what I was told. Or at least that's what I understood. The guy at Amazon said that it can't be changed. If there is a way to remove it only for one-click, please share Elegantlion. That would solve my problem.

 

 

If you go under your account, settings, 1-click settings, you will see your CC attached to 1-click under the address listed as "setting and payment method preferences". You can remove it. Like I said, I don't order that much via 1-click and I'm not sure what happens when you try to purchase without a CC listed. The one time I did, I had a gift card balance so it drew from that.

[stripe]

I know the Nygaard case was fishy, but the point is, it is possible for Amazon to delete everything and close an account. Which is just not the case if you, say, own a physical book. I am not sure about other devices, or what control is possible on say free out of copyright stuff from a third party wensite?

 

Downloading is enough... if you download them *to your own computer* as a back-up.

 

That was my point, downloading to another device. Downloading onto the kindle is not enough.

Can it be deleted again off the kindle if a deleted item is replaced from a computer copy? Or do you need to strip DRM or whatever?

[Alessandra]

 

This problem is easily solved by downloading the Kindle book directly to a file on your PC. You can transfer it via USB at a later time and the usage rights will remain intact. Make sure you back-up your PC so you won't lose them in a crash.

 

The issue above is that it is not available through the cloud. I don't think we should entirely rely on Amazon to store our digital library as that is risky.

 

I love Amazon, but I'm a big believer in backing up ebooks. Several books that I have bought have later been marked "not available in US" after the fact, but I've always been able to download them anyway. I wonder why you weren't able to? Maybe because mine had been downloaded before and yours hadn't?

 

Anyway, I download all ebooks to my computer and keep a backup. That way if I delete them off my kindle I still have a copy without relying on Amazon. I keep everything organized in Calibre (book database program). If you want to go one step further, you can remove the DRM (although it isn't strictly legal...) I'm not interested in "stealing" or illegally downloading ebooks. I'm happy to pay for the content I read, but I do think I should have the ability to read the content I have paid for on whatever device I choose.

http://calibre-ebook.com/

http://www.the-digit...plugin-calibre/

 

For this and other reasons, I use Calibre to keep all my books in and plug ins to remove drm immediately.

I bought them, I keep them. Period. Also, I use it to convert Kindle to epub for my kids ereaders and without removing drm, you can't do that either.

I'm sorry she didn't get her books.

 

I know the Nygaard case was fishy, but the point is, it is possible for Amazon to delete everything and close an account. Which is just not the case if you, say, own a physical book. I am not sure about other devices, or what control is possible on say free out of copyright stuff from a third party wensite?

 

 

That was my point, downloading to another device. Downloading onto the kindle is not enough.

Can it be deleted again off the kindle if a deleted item is replaced from a computer copy? Or do you need to strip DRM or whatever?

 

 

Could one or more of you tech-savvy people explain this in baby steps for ebook klutzes (= me).

1. Books are on my Kindle already -- what should I do?

2. Buying new books -- it sounds as though I should not download to Kindle?

 

Thanks!

[Swimtaxi234]

I am still miffed because DD was really looking forward to those books (and we are planning a road trip, so she needs something to read on her kindle)

 

You could download books from your local library. As long as you find WiFi along the way, you can download more as she needs them. Spend a little time looking for books to borrow while you are still at home to make it easier while you are on the road (BTDT).

[Mom-ninja.]

Alessandra, I'm with you. All this is making my head dizzy and ache.

[mrs.m]

Could one or more of you tech-savvy people explain this in baby steps for ebook klutzes (= me).

1. Books are on my Kindle already -- what should I do?

2. Buying new books -- it sounds as though I should not download to Kindle?

 

Thanks!

 

Go to "My kindle" under account settings at Amazon.com. There you will see a list of every book you bought and can use the drop down menu, "Actions" to download it to your PC. Put them in a file that you either burn to CD or have another place that it backs up to. This is just so if your computer crashes and Amazon pulls the plug, you have everything.

 

No, new books should download to your Kindle. Then you can read them. ;) The download to the PC would only be for back-up purposes.

[mrs.m]

That was my point, downloading to another device. Downloading onto the kindle is not enough.

Can it be deleted again off the kindle if a deleted item is replaced from a computer copy? Or do you need to strip DRM or whatever?

 

I think you will probably need to strip the DRM unless you load via USB and don't allow the kindle to access wifi (the is only if the book comes up available).

 

I'm in agreement that this is something you paid for have a right to. They aren't holding up their end of the bargain, which Amazon/BN at the very least should automaticly refund for unavailable books we have purchased. I haven't stipped DRM yet. I don't like how it the books appear on Kindle on the the stripped books load via USB.

[three4me]

Does Calibre automatically download and save ebooks? And what is DRM and how do you strip it?

[Serenade]

 

If you go under your account, settings, 1-click settings, you will see your CC attached to 1-click under the address listed as "setting and payment method preferences". You can remove it. Like I said, I don't order that much via 1-click and I'm not sure what happens when you try to purchase without a CC listed. The one time I did, I had a gift card balance so it drew from that.

 

 

I'm going to try this. Thanks so much! I just want to see how much I'm charged before I pay.

[Serenade]

I'm in NC, and whether or not tax is assessed depends on the publisher. Taxes have been collected on books from some publishers for a long while now. I've never cared enough to pay attention to which ones. It's a minor irritation to me that you can't tell before one clicking. But I just assume tax is going to be charged on all book purchases (probably will be fairly soon), and if it's not then I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

 

I guess I think it's poor business practice for the customer not to see the total before clicking "buy."

[stripe]

Does Calibre automatically download and save ebooks? And what is DRM and how do you strip it?

I use Calibre for non-DRM books on a non-Kindle, so I don't know how useful my information is, but I have to add the book to my Calibre book, and I've never stripped DRM from anything, but apparently it can deal with some of these issues with Kindle

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/drm-be-damned-how-to-protect-your-amazon-e-books-from-being-deleted/

[Serenade]

 

 

I'm going to try this. Thanks so much! I just want to see how much I'm charged before I pay.

 

Ugh. I tried it, but when I removed the info for my 1-click default, it removed my cc info for regular purchases, too. Anyhow, I've been playing around with it before I add my cc info back, and if I try to buy an e-book through 1-click now, it takes me to a separate page to choose my address and payment, rather than automatically confirm the purchase. Which is good. Sort of. I do get an order total, but I'm not sure if it's valid, because even when I add a Harper Collins book, it still doesn't show the tax. I'm guessing that based on my previous Harper Collins purchase, the tax would be added to my purchase after I buy, even though it still doesn't show it at the point of order. Which is a bummer. I just find this very, very weird.

[weddell]

Does Calibre automatically download and save ebooks? And what is DRM and how do you strip it?

 

No, calibre is just a database. You download books that you acquire from various sources. They can be paid sites like amazon, free sites like project Gutenberg or manybooks, or independent publishers, etc. After you download your books, you click the add button in calibre and it copies your book into a folder structure and adds it to your book database. You can add information like series, author, genre, and others. Then when you are looking for a certain book or type of book, you just type your search in calibre and it searches your personal library. It's like making your own library catalog with ebooks that you have acquired.

 

Calibre can also convert ebook file types. So if I have a free ePub book that I got from somewhere, I can use calibre to convert it to a mobi file that my kindle can read. I can then use calibre to send the ebook to my kindle either wirelessly or through USB.

 

DRM is digital rights management. It's the "lock" on each ebook that makes the book only open on the ebook reader that it was purchased for. For example I can download a kindle book from amazon to my computer. If I want to read it on my kindle, I can just plug my kindle into my computer with the USB cord and drag the file over. The ebook can then be opened and read. But if I plug in my husband's kindle and drag the same ebook file over, his kindle won't be able to open the file because it is "locked" to my kindle with DRM.

 

Calibre can't remove DRM on its own. But some people have written plugin add-ons to calibre that will remove the DRM and make the file open on any kindle. What this also means is that you can convert the file from a kindle file to an ePub (the other major ebook file type) and read it on any other reader or vice versa (ePub to kindle). Once you have removed the DRM, the ebook file is yours to do what you want without restrictions. You have to download and install these plugins yourself.

 

Not all ebooks have DRM, but the majority that you buy on amazon or bn do.

 

Does that help? One of the links I gave above has pretty good step by step instructions on how to set it all up.

[weddell]

 

I'm in agreement that this is something you paid for have a right to. They aren't holding up their end of the bargain, which Amazon/BN at the very least should automaticly refund for unavailable books we have purchased. I haven't stipped DRM yet. I don't like how it the books appear on Kindle on the the stripped books load via USB.

 

If you strip the DRM on a kindle book, it looks exactly the same on your kindle as before. It doesn't change the book at all, just unattaches it from your kindle serial number.

[mrs.m]

Mine loses the book coverart in the conversion. Yes, the content is otherwise the same. But, I'm new enough at the process that I probably have a setting incorrect.

[Alessandra]

Go to "My kindle" under account settings at Amazon.com. There you will see a list of every book you bought and can use the drop down menu, "Actions" to download it to your PC. Put them in a file that you either burn to CD or have another place that it backs up to. This is just so if your computer crashes and Amazon pulls the plug, you have everything.

 

No, new books should download to your Kindle. Then you can read them. ;) The download to the PC would only be for back-up purposes.

 

I went to Your Account, Digital Content, Manage Your Kindle.

Then I get a list of my books, but the only Actions are the following:

 

Read Now

Deliver to my...

Download & Transfer via USB

Clear furthest page

Delete

Loan

 

The 'Deliver to...' and 'Download...' options only let me deliver/download to my kindle or my iPad. There is no options to back up or download to my computer.

 

Am I doing something wrong? All the books were originally delivered to my Kindle.

[Mrs Mungo]

This problem is easily solved by downloading the Kindle book directly to a file on your PC. You can transfer it via USB at a later time and the usage rights will remain intact. Make sure you back-up your PC so you won't lose them in a crash.

 

I agree. I do this for my Nook. I use Calibre to download, manage and store all of my ebooks, including free books I download from Project Gutenberg and elsewhere. Third party software is the best way to handle this, IMO, because they are never going to erase your books. ETA: I convert them to epub before saving to Calibre. They look exactly the same.

[Peach]

I went to Your Account, Digital Content, Manage Your Kindle.

Then I get a list of my books, but the only Actions are the following:

 

Read Now

Deliver to my...

Download & Transfer via USB

Clear furthest page

Delete

Loan

 

The 'Deliver to...' and 'Download...' options only let me deliver/download to my kindle or my iPad. There is no options to back up or download to my computer.

 

Am I doing something wrong? All the books were originally delivered to my Kindle.

 

 

 

Go to Amazon and download the Kindle for PC software. Once it's installed, open it under Tools on the menu bar go to options, then registration. It will connect to your account, then when you go to your library on the Amazon site, under Deliver To... you should see Kindle For PC listed.

[mrs.m]

I went to Your Account, Digital Content, Manage Your Kindle.

Then I get a list of my books, but the only Actions are the following:

 

Read Now

Deliver to my...

Download & Transfer via USB

Clear furthest page

Delete

Loan

 

The 'Deliver to...' and 'Download...' options only let me deliver/download to my kindle or my iPad. There is no options to back up or download to my computer.

 

Am I doing something wrong? All the books were originally delivered to my Kindle.

 

 

The download & transfer via USB should download directly to the PC just as any other files downloads BUT you have to tell it which Kindle you will want to transfer it to. It downloads to your PC though so that you can use USB in the future to transfer.

[Alessandra]

 

 

Go to Amazon and download the Kindle for PC software. Once it's installed, open it under Tools on the menu bar go to options, then registration. It will connect to your account, then when you go to your library on the Amazon site, under Deliver To... you should see Kindle For PC listed.

 

 

The download & transfer via USB should download directly to the PC just as any other files downloads BUT you have to tell it which Kindle you will want to transfer it to. It downloads to your PC though so that you can use USB in the future to transfer.

 

 

Thank you -- you are both so helpful!

 

I went to the Kindle for PC page:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=200450200#download

 

Now I see what is going on -- the app is for WINDOWS computers, and I have a MAC.

 

Good news -- maybe I am not completely incompetent.

 

Bad news -- Amazon prefers Windows over Mac.