If you have a child who is accelerated but hates math...- UPDATE

[Esse Quam Videri]

How much math does he/she do every day? My son just turned 7 (first grade) and absolutely loathes math, though he is really good at it. I think this math hatred began because I am making him do too much everyday. If you have/had a child who is extremely smart but has a very short attention span (and also hates to physically write down math problems) how long is your daily math lesson? I cannot seem to find a happy medium. Also, is it really okay to scribe everything for him? I feel like it's not so I've been making him write some, but honestly even one page in the workbook takes him FOREVER to complete if he is doing it independently. It's not his processing speed- he can mentally do the problems and tell me the answers fairly quickly. But his mind is just elsewhere all the time and he cannot be self-motivated at this point unless it's something he's really interested in (science or history). Anyone relate? I feel like we are moving forward at a snails pace right now. Where do we go from here?

[wapiti]

double post

[wapiti]

I'd do as much orally as necessary to keep from getting bogged down. See if using a white board might liven things up.

 

Are you certain the placement is correct? How about the pace? What if you try to move faster when you know he understands?

 

Could you occasionally add in or substitute something more interesting (e.g., Beast, or interesting math books to read, such as Murderous Maths, etc.)?

 

FWIW, the processing speed measured by, say, the WISC, includes the motor speed of writing (coding subtest). I have a couple kids with significant "processing speed" issues that show up as a handwriting problem on the coding subtest, not a mental math speed problem.

[boscopup]

I wouldn't scribe *everything* for him, but I would scribe some to get him moving more. I'd also double check his placement to make sure he's where he really is. If it's too easy, skip problems and get him to where he really is.

 

I do sometimes scribe for my K'er (doing SM 1B). I will sometimes tell him to do part of it, and then I'll scribe the rest. Just depends on how much there is. You can also trade off him writing and you writing. I used to do that with DS1 when he was doing Math Mammoth.

 

When I have an accelerated student, I try to keep time spent on the subject equivalent to what the average child their age would be doing at grade level, unless they *want* to do more. So a 1st grader in math, I think 15-20 minutes is plenty. DS1 did about 20 minutes a day in 1st grade (and he loves math). Now in 3rd grade, it's more like 30-45... an hour on days that we do CWP at the white board together, but that's split up into two math sessions those days.

 

Is he pencil phobic in general? My oldest was. He's gotten so much better this year. I've gradually boiled him over the last 2 years, and now he can write a fair amount. Physical maturity probably helped a lot too.

[poiema]

I can't help much, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. My just-turned-7 ds hates math, and even though he is fairly accelerated (will be starting 3A next week) I wouldn't really call him good at math. He despises mental math. I will often walk through the mental steps after he solves a problem the long way just to show him how much easier it is. He doesn't care at all. I know exactly what you mean about how it would be different if it was science or history. At least math is going better than it was last year. We finally got over the point where I had to scribe everything for him. BTW, I think it is fine if you have to scribe everything. We turned a corner last year when I started scribing for him while letting him run back and forth across the house shouting out answers. Math went from 2 exhausting hours to 20 fun minutes. He no longer requires this anymore. I still try to keep math period short (usually about 20-30 minutes), but I do occasionaly assign "roomwork" after school if he doesn't finish. I will give him to up to 30 minutes a day of math hand-holding ("stay on task"), but after that he's on his own.

[Laura Corin]

I'd definitely scribe for him if the writing is getting in the way.

 

In general, I didn't expect my sons to work for longer each day than their age-mates (unless they wanted to). They were working at a higher level, but not for a longer period each day. This often meant that material took longer than the textbook manufacturer expected, but that's okay.

 

Laura

[Tracy]

My dd8 is the same way. When she was 5yo, she was saying she hated math. I discovered that she has a huge aversion to worksheets. Although her writing skills have improved immensely, she still loathes worksheets. She doesn't mind using paper or white board to solve problems that we are working on orally, though. I have found that she prefers math in the form of stories and applications. She prefers it to be interactive (between teacher and student). It is also very important that it be the right amount of challenge. It is not unusual for her to complain that something is too easy and then in the same lesson complain that it is too hard.

 

So, to answer your question, there are a myriad of variables that you have to all balance out, all while the planets are perfectly aligned. :laugh:

[serendipitous journey]

Aside from the scribing ideas above, you might try ways to make the child want to work faster. For many things (though not math at the moment) I set a timer for a generous amount of time and when A. finishes neatly and correctly, he gets to play until the timer goes off. Sometimes we break math into little segments, do 1 or two problems, break, then 1 or 2 more; today A. had a micro-break of 2 minutes after every couple of problems (which he likes -- YMMV).

 

You could also let him "opt out" of much work if he does, say, 3 out of the 4 hardest problems correctly. Then he can skip the rest and go play for a bit.

 

There's livingmath.net, too, to tie math to history if you think that would help ...

[Esse Quam Videri]

So many good thoughts and ideas- thank you all. I think I'm going to scribe most of the writing as long as he is doing the *work* independently. If anything, I'll have him work through a few of the more difficult problems on the whiteboard. He doesn't respond to "as soon as you finish you get to..." at all, however he might like the idea of a quick break after every few problems. And I think limiting math to 15-20 minutes a day will help, as will including some fun resources like Beast, Murderous Maths, or livingmath. I'm still not sure about pacing/placement/acceleration though. I just feel so strange about skipping practice problems, even if he can figure them out, because doesn't practice increase speed and cement the concept in long term memory? I don't want him to "get it" and then forget it next week. The comments about "the right difficulty" are literally beyond me... I have no idea if he's working at his potential.

[Tracy]

I'm still not sure about pacing/placement/acceleration though. I just feel so strange about skipping practice problems, even if he can figure them out, because doesn't practice increase speed and cement the concept in long term memory? I don't want him to "get it" and then forget it next week. The comments about "the right difficulty" are literally beyond me... I have no idea if he's working at his potential.

 

Don't worry about missing things in math. Until they get to Algebra, it is all arithmetic--addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, decimals, length, perimeter, area, volume. There is just not a lot they can miss. (Actually I think this is why a lot of young, gifted kids hate math. There is just not that much to it until you are ready for Algebra.) Your dc has many years before he has to consider Algebra. A lot of gifted kids do not get their arithmetic down well until they need it for something else (like Algebra).

 

It is hard to know a child's potential, especially in a subject they don't like. However, it is possible that he doesn't like math because he has not had enough of a challenge. When my 5yo math-hater asked for multiplication, I thought it was ridiculous. But what did I have to lose? I bought a book about multiplication, and we did that for a couple of months. She was much happier. Then I went out of my way to find something that would offer more advanced instruction for younger ages, and then it was even better. Math is still not a favorite, but it has been a long time since she said she hated it.

[2smartones]

I have a radically accelerated math phobe & writing phobe. The math phobia (99%) disappeared when we started Life of Fred. I haven't found a way around the writing phobia yet. LOL! He abbreviates EVERYTHING, and although it annoys me that he tries to get out of doing math stuff, I have to admit that it has tremendously helped his mental math skills. ;)

[serendipitous journey]

.... I'm still not sure about pacing/placement/acceleration though. I just feel so strange about skipping practice problems, even if he can figure them out, because doesn't practice increase speed and cement the concept in long term memory? I don't want him to "get it" and then forget it next week. The comments about "the right difficulty" are literally beyond me... I have no idea if he's working at his potential.

 

to the bolded ... no. pretty much, no.

 

Speed in calculation is a Good Thing. For this you have a short little drill of some sort -- CalcuLadder, MathSprints from Singapore, whatever.

 

However, what will keep the problem-solving concepts in his mind is not more problems today, but using the concepts periodically. This is why Singapore is spiral, and MathUSee has regular review, &c. If the child knows how to do the problems, then doing a bunch of them in a row is just boring, demoralizing and makes math tedious. Encourage accuracy, focus, and hard work by allowing him to "test out" with a subset of problems. Never require 100% for him to test out -- nothing higher than 90% -- because you want him to be comfortable with challenge, with occasional failure, and to be working at a level at which he's still engaged.

 

I rarely assign more than 1/2 the Singapore problems in the workbook or the little sets in the text -- you know, where there are 9-12 little problems all in a blob (this is for my 2nd grader). If the child does them well, then next day you move on. If he doesn't I usually take a break anyhow, and revisit them later or the next day. Usually I cross out the problems in pencil so it's easy to get them back by erasing. ;)

 

The "right difficulty" is when he isn't so bored he dallies all day or doodles all over his page, and not so challenged he regularly bursts into tears. Usually the child is making errors of 10 - 25% as you go if the material is challenging but not impossible. Fewer errors mean he's mastered it already.

 

For Singapore, you can either get the tests or use the reviews to check knowledge. Skip ahead to the next review, give him 1 or 2 of each sort of problem (maybe 1/2 the review) and see if he pretty much knows the concepts. If he gets 80-90% correct, teach any misunderstandings and move on. Perhaps next day sample the next review, until you hit stuff that is too hard. (okay, have to get children out of the tub -- HTH!)

 

ETA: there's a book -- Developing Math Talent -- that goes into this, and some other sources too ...

[Esse Quam Videri]

Don't worry about missing things in math. Until they get to Algebra, it is all arithmetic--addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, decimals, length, perimeter, area, volume. There is just not a lot they can miss. (Actually I think this is why a lot of young, gifted kids hate math. There is just not that much to it until you are ready for Algebra.) Your dc has many years before he has to consider Algebra. A lot of gifted kids do not get their arithmetic down well until they need it for something else (like Algebra).

 

This is a great reminder. Maybe I could present some topics out of traditional order for him, to make things more interesting? I do have MM blue series downloaded and LOF Fractions? I'm also willing to invest in other books if it'll curb his math hatred.

[tabinfl]

If you're not too opposed to additional screen time, we get a LOT more math done on Dreambox.com and some ipad math apps (TeachMe is a fave). My girltwin asks to play Dreambox. My son, who would drag his feet endlessly over workbook pages, zooms through the same material in a "game".

 

We still do handwriting lessons and use writing in other areas, but at this stage I don't want their interest and learning in other subjects to be dragged down by the difficulty with the physical act of writing.

[Esse Quam Videri]

 

to the bolded ... no. pretty much, no.

 

Speed in calculation is a Good Thing. For this you have a short little drill of some sort -- CalcuLadder, MathSprints from Singapore, whatever.

 

However, what will keep the problem-solving concepts in his mind is not more problems today, but using the concepts periodically. This is why Singapore is spiral, and MathUSee has regular review, &c. If the child knows how to do the problems, then doing a bunch of them in a row is just boring, demoralizing and makes math tedious. Encourage accuracy, focus, and hard work by allowing him to "test out" with a subset of problems. Never require 100% for him to test out -- nothing higher than 90% -- because you want him to be comfortable with challenge, with occasional failure, and to be working at a level at which he's still engaged.

 

I rarely assign more than 1/2 the Singapore problems in the workbook or the little sets in the text -- you know, where there are 9-12 little problems all in a blob. If the child does them well, then next day you move on. If he doesn't I usually take a break anyhow, and revisit them later or the next day. Usually I cross out the problems in pencil so it's easy to get them back by erasing. ;)

 

The "right difficulty" is when he isn't so bored he dallies all day or doodles all over his page, and not so challenged he regularly bursts into tears. Usually the child is making errors of 10 - 25% as you go if the material is challenging but not impossible. Fewer errors mean he's mastered it already.

 

For Singapore, you can either get the tests or use the reviews to check knowledge. Skip ahead to the next review, give him 1 or 2 of each sort of problem (maybe 1/2 the review) and see if he pretty much knows the concepts. If he gets 80-90% correct, teach any misunderstandings and move on. Perhaps next day sample the next review, until you hit stuff that is too hard. (okay, have to get children out of the tub -- HTH!)

 

This is so new to me. I hate to admit it, but I am a 100% type of mom, which probably makes it that much worse. I don't discourage him but I do require going back over missed problems to get them correct. Wow, this is definitely enlightening and I'm so glad you gave specifics here. I'm going to change things up... perhaps my expectations are holding him back more than anything.

[poiema]

to the bolded ... no. pretty much, no.

 

Speed in calculation is a Good Thing. For this you have a short little drill of some sort -- CalcuLadder, MathSprints from Singapore, whatever.

 

However, what will keep the problem-solving concepts in his mind is not more problems today, but using the concepts periodically. This is why Singapore is spiral, and MathUSee has regular review, &c. If the child knows how to do the problems, then doing a bunch of them in a row is just boring, demoralizing and makes math tedious. Encourage accuracy, focus, and hard work by allowing him to "test out" with a subset of problems. Never require 100% for him to test out -- nothing higher than 90% -- because you want him to be comfortable with challenge, with occasional failure, and to be working at a level at which he's still engaged.

 

I rarely assign more than 1/2 the Singapore problems in the workbook or the little sets in the text -- you know, where there are 9-12 little problems all in a blob. If the child does them well, then next day you move on. If he doesn't I usually take a break anyhow, and revisit them later or the next day. Usually I cross out the problems in pencil so it's easy to get them back by erasing. ;)

 

The "right difficulty" is when he isn't so bored he dallies all day or doodles all over his page, and not so challenged he regularly bursts into tears. Usually the child is making errors of 10 - 25% as you go if the material is challenging but not impossible. Fewer errors mean he's mastered it already.

 

For Singapore, you can either get the tests or use the reviews to check knowledge. Skip ahead to the next review, give him 1 or 2 of each sort of problem (maybe 1/2 the review) and see if he pretty much knows the concepts. If he gets 80-90% correct, teach any misunderstandings and move on. Perhaps next day sample the next review, until you hit stuff that is too hard. (okay, have to get children out of the tub -- HTH!)

 

ETA: there's a book -- Developing Math Talent -- that goes into this, and some other sources too ...

 

This is so new to me. I hate to admit it, but I am a 100% type of mom, which probably makes it that much worse. I don't discourage him but I do require going back over missed problems to get them correct. Wow, this is definitely enlightening and I'm so glad you gave specifics here. I'm going to change things up... perhaps my expectations are holding him back more than anything.

 

I'm the same way. I assign every problem in the WB and go over any mistakes. But I am..willing to...try..this. :001_unsure:

[serendipitous journey]

This is so new to me. I hate to admit it, but I am a 100% type of mom, which probably makes it that much worse. I don't discourage him but I do require going back over missed problems to get them correct. Wow, this is definitely enlightening and I'm so glad you gave specifics here. I'm going to change things up... perhaps my expectations are holding him back more than anything.

 

I'm the same way. I assign every problem in the WB and go over any mistakes. But I am..willing to...try..this. :001_unsure:

 

 

oh goodness, I didn't mean you shouldn't correct and go over them! I just meant that, from what I've read about these things, you should set the child up for feeling extremely successful when the number of errors is small and not for expecting there to be zero errors.

 

I do correct (I try to do it immediately) and go over the errors. I also try to remember the Suzuki idea of first commenting on what's right with the work, then mentioning the errors.

 

RE doing all the workbook: if it's going well, then it's going well! A. is working very much ahead of grade level so that's part of why I do this. But if the child is hating math, then I think a change of strategy may be in order. A. does not like his math, but he doesn't detest it and there are bits he gets interested in. As long as he sometimes enjoys a curriculum, I am okay with that. When it consistently brings no joy I try to change.

 

Many of these ideas come from the "Developing Math Talent" book -- which is a quick read, not meaty, but useful -- and others from books about differentiated instruction for gifted children. I am sure much of what I said may not suit, or may even be bad advice for you! but perhaps something will be useful.

 

and :grouphug: . Raising & educating these children is not easy!!! (today has been esp. challenging 'round here ...)

[poiema]

oh goodness, I didn't mean you shouldn't correct and go over them! I just meant that, from what I've read about these things, you should set the child up for feeling extremely successful when the number of errors is small and not for expecting there to be zero errors.

 

I do correct (I try to do it immediately) and go over the errors. I also try to remember the Suzuki idea of first commenting on what's right with the work, then mentioning the errors.

 

RE doing all the workbook: if it's going well, then it's going well! A. is working very much ahead of grade level so that's part of why I do this. But if the child is hating math, then I think a change of strategy may be in order. A. does not like his math, but he doesn't detest it and there are bits he gets interested in. As long as he sometimes enjoys a curriculum, I am okay with that. When it consistently brings no joy I try to change.

 

Many of these ideas come from the "Developing Math Talent" book -- which is a quick read, not meaty, but useful -- and others from books about differentiated instruction for gifted children. I am sure much of what I said may not suit, or may even be bad advice for you! but perhaps something will be useful.

 

and :grouphug: . Raising & educating these children is not easy!!! (today has been esp. challenging 'round here ...)

 

Okay good! I like going over any mistakes as soon as he makes them. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes and most of them are just careless ones.

 

My ds says he hates math. I have to correct him because he doesn't hate ALL math. He likes things like geometry, fractions, and capacity. He begged to do those sections and breezed through them so I actually used them as bait to get him through the parts he doesn't like so much.

[Mukmuk]

Not sure if this helps. My son was only doing math for homeschooling up to last year. It was the only thing he wanted to do, and yet he wasn't exactly enamored of it. I distinctly remember actually bribing him to work on math one time (bad idea btw). I'm not sure what happened but around the middle of last year, he fell in love with math. It could be that he took part in a local contest and aced it, but he says he signed up because he was reasonably confident in the first place. Well, one thing begot another, and perhaps they were all confidence building, but he loves it now. So perhaps, some added challenge to the mix of excellent suggestions here?

[Alte Veste Academy]

DS10 used to dawdle over math like nobody's business. Took him forever and he didn't like it at all. He was great at it, a real natural with numbers, so it really killed me. Turns out, the math being too easy and boring made it "too hard." It had to be hard to keep from being too easy. Only when the math was challenging could it capture his full attention. I recommend hitting the major lessons and then going sideways and supplementing out the wazoo. Also, instead of teaching him a math lesson exactly as laid out in the book, maybe pose a problem of that type and see if he can figure out how to solve it for himself. I didn't care if he was accelerated if, in the end, he hated math. There are many threads about supplements and recommendations for kids gifted in math. Definitely search and pursue fun extras to see of you can ignite his spark.

[Greenmama2]

My DD is not quite seven and only one or two years accelerated in math depending on your views on "red-shirting". Back in January when we were finishing up SM2 she was starting to say that she hated it. We switched to Life of Fred and then added in Beast Academy a month ago. Now she loves it more than ever. The problem for us was that I had her treading water. She really was conceptually done with SM2 but I wanted to clear up any gaps. Ugh. Big mistake. I'll try not to do it again, no doubt I will though.

I do scribe, however it's gradually becoming less and less. I keep a close eye on how things are going and I'll offer to scribe for a few excercises. I find switching back and forth between her writing and me writing also helps extend her attention span. Definitely a good thing ;)

[Crimson Wife]

My oldest DD says she "hates" math, and after trying a bunch of things, I've come to the conclusion that she resents actually having to work at it. So many subjects come very easily to her that it's almost like she gets offended that math takes some real effort. :nopity:

[boscopup]

It's not uncommon for gifted kids to need less practice to cement a concept in their brain. Elementary math is very repetitive, and every new concept uses old concepts (multi-digit multiplication uses addition, long division uses subtraction). I skipped a LOT of problems in the first few grades of math with my oldest, and I skipped a lot less starting around 4th grade level when the concepts weren't things he'd already figured out in preschool. :tongue_smilie:

 

It also will depend what program you're using as to whether you can skip a lot of problems. We did MM1-4, and we skipped huge amounts because there were soooooo many problems available. In Singapore, I don't need to skip workbook problems, since there are so few on the page. We do the textbook orally, and I mostly hit the word problems and the harder problems. For the drill sections, I just do a few to make sure he's got it, because usually the workbook will have more drill for him to do. If there is a Practice section in the textbook, he'll do all of those problems on separate paper as intended. I stretch out Reviews over a couple days if needed, and we only pick one - textbook review or workbook review, not both. If the previous chapter was really short and we just did a review last week, we'll skip the review for this chapter and just do the one after the next chapter.

 

Having a gifted-in-math kid has really helped me get over the "do every problem" desire. :lol:

[JennW in SoCal]

I am never sure if my "been there done that and it turned out well" posts are helpful or not, but here I go again :tongue_smilie:

 

Been there done that: I definitely was a scribe when my boys were younger. Can't remember when that changed, but I can tell you that math was done on a white board, with us sprawled on the living room floor, through Algebra I. Geometry was finally the subject that moved both kids to a table and chairs.

 

I mixed it up with several math curricula and with "living math" books, and from games or activities found on the internet. Family Math is a wonderful book that has all kinds of games and activities for teaching all the basic math concepts.

 

And I NEVER assigned all the problems. Sometimes the reason was that it was quickly evident the concept was understood and sometimes it was simply to keep boredom at bay. I often had them correct their own work, too, which was better than my correcting it -- they were keen on figuring out what had gone wrong.

 

And it turned out well Apparently I didn't ruin them with this approach. The youngest is planning on a math minor, if not a double major.

[RoundAbout]

I do math 7 days a week with my son but keep lessons very short - 20 minutes usually. I also alternate days doing our main math program (RS C) and math enrichment topics. Recently DS loved doing tessellations and learning binary which I taught using the Papy minicomputer.

 

It's really tempting to push for more because DS is so talented at math and I love teaching it, but at this age he's not that into sit down school work and that's ok. His peers in public K do very little math and its all counting and very basic addition so I keep that in the back of my mind when I'm tempted to go harder.

[poiema]

Here's what I don't get :confused1: Here I am hearing "skip problems" in the workbook. But in almost every other SM thread people are overwhelmingly recommending adding in CWP, IP, EP, or some other supplement like LOF. What's the point? Seriously, I don't get it. I am trying to figure out what to use to help my seemingly math-phobic child to at least have a solid foundation. If the WB with TB and/or HIG isn't enough already, why would I skip problems? Or if it's already too much practice, why do I need to add to it?

 

Sorry if this is a hijack. Math has me so confused! It's not even math, it's the what-am-I-supposed-to-use-to-teach-math that has me so confused.

 

So, going back to the original OP's situation (bright child that doesn't like math)...What would be a good SM combo? HIG+TB+WB(1/2 the problems)? Or maybe toss out WB altogether and add CWP? Or maybe the FAN Process Skills books I just learned about? I don't think IP or EP books would be right here, but what do I know (not much, that's why I'm asking). ;)

[mathwonk]

When I taught math for elementary teachers we used a great book by Sybilla Beckmann. The subject matter was arithmetic but the focus was on understanding and problem solving. I enjoyed it myself.

 

On the first page it started out with this problem: Suppose there are 20 people at party and each person shakes hands with each other person. How many handshakes occur all together?

 

We spent the whole period discussing how to solve this. It seemed challenging and fun.

 

 

Then when we studied positional notation and borrowing and "regrouping" and so on, I used an example of re arranging money into different denominations. I used British money, so we started off with a large number of pence, and i asked how many pounds and shiilings and pennies they made up.

 

But for a gifted kid, just plodding through a workbook of arithmetic problems is the dullest thing in the world. I LOVE real math, and in the 3rd grade I thoroughly HATED those stupid workbooks they made us fill up, with a passion. I could do all those problems in my head.

 

 

So if there is a person in the family who actually likes math to participate, maybe some time spent teaching some actual math instead of drilling operations would help.

 

Or maybe challenge the child with bigger numbers, or by doing them in his head, like multiplying 2 and 3 digit numbers mentally.

 

Or maybe your text has a competency test you can use to be able to skip some sections.

 

You are asking a good question, because acquiring complete disdain for practical competency is hazardous to the learner. Let us know if any of these ideas helps. We may have the same problem.

[Crimson Wife]

Here's what I don't get :confused1: Here I am hearing "skip problems" in the workbook. But in almost every other SM thread people are overwhelmingly recommending adding in CWP, IP, EP, or some other supplement like LOF. What's the point? Seriously, I don't get it. I am trying to figure out what to use to help my seemingly math-phobic child to at least have a solid foundation. If the WB with TB and/or HIG isn't enough already, why would I skip problems? Or if it's already too much practice, why do I need to add to it?

 

Sorry if this is a hijack. Math has me so confused! It's not even math, it's the what-am-I-supposed-to-use-to-teach-math that has me so confused.

 

With a gifted kid, I would say to skip the PM workbook and do the IP instead. It's hard enough to get my kids to do the textbook practices. They cheer when I bring out the IP instead of the textbook. I'd absolutely have a mutiny on my hands if I required them to do the workbook (which is even easier than the textbook).

 

This applies to the grades 1-6 books only. At the secondary level, the workbook is more like the IP and that's what gets cheers.

[Wheres Toto]

My son is advanced, especially in math, but hates too much repetition, hates when it's "too easy" but also hates it when he has to work too hard at it. He also hates a lot of writing.

 

What works well for him:

I do a lot of the writing for him.

Math Mammoth - it has a good amount of explanation for new topics but not too much. We mix up topics so he's not doing the same thing over and over again. (right now he's about to start Division in 3B, is doing Place Value from 4A or B and Fractions from 4A or B). I don't make him do all the problems on a page if he's getting them right.

 

We also supplement with Beast Academy.

Since he doesn't like drill, he does a couple supplements from Scholastic:

Algebra Readiness Made Easy

Solve the Problem Math Riddles

Logic puzzles

Xtra Math

 

So far it's working well. He does it (mostly) without complaining and he is continuing to advance.

[Dana]

Here's what I don't get :confused1: Here I am hearing "skip problems" in the workbook. But in almost every other SM thread people are overwhelmingly recommending adding in CWP, IP, EP, or some other supplement like LOF. What's the point? Seriously, I don't get it. I am trying to figure out what to use to help my seemingly math-phobic child to at least have a solid foundation. If the WB with TB and/or HIG isn't enough already, why would I skip problems? Or if it's already too much practice, why do I need to add to it?

 

Sorry if this is a hijack. Math has me so confused! It's not even math, it's the what-am-I-supposed-to-use-to-teach-math that has me so confused.

 

So, going back to the original OP's situation (bright child that doesn't like math)...What would be a good SM combo? HIG+TB+WB(1/2 the problems)? Or maybe toss out WB altogether and add CWP? Or maybe the FAN Process Skills books I just learned about? I don't think IP or EP books would be right here, but what do I know (not much, that's why I'm asking). ;)

 

I'm one of the people who uses ALL the books :)

Here's where I'm coming from...

I have an undergrad major in math. I have a MAT degree (Masters of Arts in Teaching) in math... so I studied math and education and got credentialed to teach math. I've taught for 15 years now at the cc (2 different ones). I have taught calculus and precalc and trig, but most of the time I've taught algebra 1 and prealgebra. I've seen so many students make so many mistakes over the years that I'm very attuned to where students will make mistakes and where misconceptions arise and how important notation is.

 

I have likely gone overboard with my son.

 

He is considered "profoundly gifted" according to outside measures, although he doesn't "wow" us the way other kids are described. This is why I didn't post on this thread.

 

I subscribe to the idea of "overlearning". I see students regularly who understand what I teach but then can't do the work on a test. I want to be very certain that my son won't be in that situation. So for me, unless it's really clear that he has mastered a topic (not just has a good grasp of it... but has it absolutely SOLID), he's doing drill until he's at mastery.

 

We've been using Standards since 2nd grade & he's finishing up 5 now. We used the US edition in 1st.

We do the textbook, only skipping problems if he's really got it. I think we did skip some big chunks in 5 with decimals. He does everything in the workbook. I think the workbook is easier than the text. I have used the EP books on occasion when he needed some extra drill at an easy level (mainly in 3 & 4), but I think the tests work better for that (more practice... EP has very few problems and is at the same difficulty as the workbook).

 

We typically do the iExcel (now Process Skills books) soon after the topic from the textbook. Sometimes we do the word problems there before the text word problems. We skip around in CWP on the same level. We've been picking up speed in 5B and doing less in IP.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable not doing the workbook, because that is where I see if my son can write out the work in a way that I'd give credit for the work if he were in my class. I talk with him about math notation being a form of communication and having its own rules, just like English does. I won't let him get away with wriiting an incomplete or ungrammatical math sentence.

 

For instance, in 5B with evaluation, I discussed the importance of showing the in-between step:

"Evaluate 3x for x = 5"

He wrote 15.

I said I wanted to see 3(5) first, then 15.

The reason for this is to get good habits going. When you're evaluating for x = a + 4 in algebra (or for x = x + h), unless you really understand what you're doing & why, many people will make errors. This is why I want to see the substitution.

And with that explanation, I showed him where it appears in calculus in one of my texts.

 

For some students, the drill I insist on would make them miserable. So if a parent says their child can move ahead really rapidly, I don't suggest they add in more books :) On the general board, I do suggest the additional books. I have seen so so so many weak students and I know their mistakes and misconceptions come from not having a SOLID arithmetic foundation.

 

With my son, I could have moved him forward a lot faster...but I don't think he'd have the foundation he does now. I believe if he were in my cc course (prealgebra), he'd be able to pass it within the semester. Now that he's got the foundation, we can build faster. I plan to do some AoPS with him next, but mainly work first with Elements of Mathematics.

[Mukmuk]

 

 

He is considered "profoundly gifted" according to outside measures, although he doesn't "wow" us the way other kids are described. This is why I didn't post on this thread.

 

 

 

Apologies for going off tangent. Same here!! Don't post that much on the accelerated learner forum, I mean. I mostly read silently as I have similar problems, but not so much the wows. :ohmy:

 

{Disclaimer: we're very happy with DS and where he's at. :001_tt1: }

[serendipitous journey]

Here's what I don't get :confused1: Here I am hearing "skip problems" in the workbook. But in almost every other SM thread people are overwhelmingly recommending adding in CWP, IP, EP, or some other supplement like LOF. What's the point? Seriously, I don't get it. I am trying to figure out what to use to help my seemingly math-phobic child to at least have a solid foundation. If the WB with TB and/or HIG isn't enough already, why would I skip problems? Or if it's already too much practice, why do I need to add to it?

 

Sorry if this is a hijack. Math has me so confused! It's not even math, it's the what-am-I-supposed-to-use-to-teach-math that has me so confused.

 

So, going back to the original OP's situation (bright child that doesn't like math)...What would be a good SM combo? HIG+TB+WB(1/2 the problems)? Or maybe toss out WB altogether and add CWP? Or maybe the FAN Process Skills books I just learned about? I don't think IP or EP books would be right here, but what do I know (not much, that's why I'm asking). ;)

 

You've hit on some interesting and important points.

 

First, I'd say that most users of Singapore Math are interested in rigorous maths so they supplement. The CWP, MathSprints, and IP contain material not contained in the textbook and workbook. The Extra Practice contains (I believe) more material of the same type as the textbook and workbook. The Singapore site seems to suggest using one supplement targeted to your learner.

 

If you have an accelerated child/quick learner, you probably want extension activities that require the child to practice mathematical reasoning and to develop complex problem-solving abilities beyond the standard. Then you want material not contained in the textbook and workbook, but material that is more challenging or stretches the child in a different direction. You may skip the standard workbook entirely, or assign just a few problems to make sure the child really has the concept down, in favor of this more challenging material: you are freeing time up for your more challenging practice or your math enrichment (Life of Fred, living math). Or you may skip workbook/textbook problems in order to cover more than one section per day, if that pace suits your learner. Or you may do all the textbook, all the workbook, and CWP and IP too because you care about maths and your child will tolerate this. My son would not do well under that regimen.

 

If your child regularly fails to master concepts with the amount of practice in the SM text and workbook then you want Extra Practice: more problems of the same sort. You may choose to add these in a second learning session or to spend extra days on the practice, essentially giving the child the time she needs to master the material comfortably -- without being burdened with too much at once, or being rushed.

 

In all cases the goal is to have the child consistently engaged, challenged and successfully learning. Some folks, as you can see from above, do all of everything.

 

And our advice is idiosyncratic because our histories are unique! My course is very different to Dana's, above, but we both have goals of thorough foundations and of joy in the subject.

[Dana]

Or you may do all the textbook, all the workbook, and CWP and IP too because you care about maths and your child will tolerate this. My son would not do well under that regimen.

 

If your child regularly fails to master concepts with the amount of practice in the SM text and workbook then you want Extra Practice: more problems of the same sort. You may choose to add these in a second learning session or to spend extra days on the practice, essentially giving the child the time she needs to master the material comfortably -- without being burdened with too much at once, or being rushed.

 

In all cases the goal is to have the child consistently engaged, challenged and successfully learning. Some folks, as you can see from above, do all of everything.

 

And our advice is idiosyncratic because our histories are unique! My course is very different to Dana's, above, but we both have goals of thorough foundations and of joy in the subject.

 

Some really good comments here and more succinctly than I put them :)

 

I have used the Extra Practice books on occasion. This year I got the Test books. They have a multiple choice and an open ended test for each section in each book. Most tests have 10 problems. There's also a chapter test. I've used these when we needed more review because there are more problems than in the EP books. I did not find the EP books to be worth the money. The Tests are at the workbook level or slightly higher.

 

Strongly agree with the quote I put in red. We all find (or try to find) what works best for our children while still meeting our educational goals. (My son is memorizing powers of 2 thanks to MineCraft, but I wouldn't count that as math time!)

[Dmmetler]

Another thing to consider-I would have said that my DD was good at math, but until a year ago, I would have described her as a "Languag-y" kid, not a "Math-y" one. Then, it was like something clicked inside, because almost overnight, at around your son's age, she went from disliking math, and it being like pulling teeth to get her to do a reasonable amount (30 minutes or so daily) to it being the opposite-that she had internalized arithmetic, started coming up with challenging problems on her own she wanted to solve, and wanted more, more, more REAL math. This year, at 7 3/4-8, math jumped to the "OK, do your other work and THEN you can go do math!"-because otherwise she'd happily spend several hours on it and I felt like the wicked witch of the west saying "You spent all morning on math, so now you have to do your other work this afternoon".

 

I truly believe it was a developmental thing, because this was also right about the time when it seemed like her motor skills kicked in and writing went from being a chore to be avoided at all cost to something she'd do on her own.

 

So, my advice-keep doing what you're doing, with a reasonable amount of time for his age, and be aware that next month, or next year, it may all look different!

[poiema]

Here's the thing with my ds. He might be gifted, IDK, I haven't had him tested . He definitely fits some of the criteria, but not in all areas. Motor skills (including writing) are just average, if not below. He is accelerated in math, but not gifted. I am fairly confident that he will not grow up to be a mathematician. Like I've said, he doesn't like math. To be honest, I'm not always confident that he even gets it (at least not the SM way). He doesn't like to use manipulatives and he hates mental math. He would much rather borrow and carry everything. He makes careless mistakes (like in a subtraction problem yesterday, he subtracted the ones and tens and then added the hundreds). He can complete a section fine and then completely forget what to do when it comes back in review. He is finishing up the review from 2B this week and even though he is passing, I can't decide if we should move forward or spend the next few weeks going back over all of it. I would really like to have him practice until he can do it in his sleep, but more practice would not go over well with him. I have been having him do a little of the reviews everyday instead of at the end of a section. I think he would hate EP. I don't think he is mathy enough to benefit from IP or CWP (is it weird that I am genuinely sad that my child does not like word problems?). I am thinking that the Process Skills books might be the best fit. Honestly, part of me is thinking TT might be a better fit than SM, but that's a whole other thread.

[Dana]

He's 7. He's young.

 

When we did long division, my son hated me making him do the problems with manipulatives. We used base 10 blocks. He thought he understood what he was doing but he'd make "careless" mistakes that he then wanted to just correct. I made him use the blocks, tell me where the error was, and then he could write it.

It wasn't a fun week...but his errors now I can feel comfortable saying are "careless" rather than conceptual.

 

He didn't enjoy the word problems...but now he does.

I'd suggest going by time... spend 30 min a day on math. Stop when the time is met. Some days may be only teaching (text work). Some days may be only word problems. I don't think you need to be "mathy" to benefit from CWP or IP.

 

Hope you find a good fit for your son. It's tricky & I know I second guess myself an awful lot!

[Embassy]

Helping my accelerated math kid like math has been a challenge. He wants to go into a career involving lots of math - that has helped. I've shown him information stating how important math is to his future goals (because, you know, it is helpful to hear it from someone else besides mom). I've supplemented with more fun math like Vi Hart videos or living books.

 

In general, this year I have focused on acceleration through Singapore. I was going slow using the textbook, workbook, IP, and CWP last year. My son did fine, but when I had educational testing done I realized he wasn't close to meeting his potential. He would make lots of crazy mistakes and take forever to do problems that shouldn't be too hard. As a result I didn't want to go faster because he wasn't entirely successful where he was. Acceleration using the Singapore textbook (done mostly orally) and CWP has been a very good move for this kid. He was bored. He isn't terribly accelerated, but he is now at a level where he can engage with the material much easier. I sit beside him pretty much his whole math time (1 hour). Sometimes I have him write down and work out the problems from the textbook and other times we do things orally. It was a time consuming choice for me, but I am pleased with how it has gone. Now he usually gets the problems right even though they are harder. :glare:

[poiema]

Another thing to consider-I would have said that my DD was good at math, but until a year ago, I would have described her as a "Languag-y" kid, not a "Math-y" one. Then, it was like something clicked inside, because almost overnight, at around your son's age, she went from disliking math, and it being like pulling teeth to get her to do a reasonable amount (30 minutes or so daily) to it being the opposite-that she had internalized arithmetic, started coming up with challenging problems on her own she wanted to solve, and wanted more, more, more REAL math. This year, at 7 3/4-8, math jumped to the "OK, do your other work and THEN you can go do math!"-because otherwise she'd happily spend several hours on it and I felt like the wicked witch of the west saying "You spent all morning on math, so now you have to do your other work this afternoon".

 

I truly believe it was a developmental thing, because this was also right about the time when it seemed like her motor skills kicked in and writing went from being a chore to be avoided at all cost to something she'd do on her own.

 

So, my advice-keep doing what you're doing, with a reasonable amount of time for his age, and be aware that next month, or next year, it may all look different!

I just read this (after I posted). I really hope this is true for us also. I don't need him to love math, I just don't want him to hate it. At the least, hate it with a good attitude :)

[kohlby]

My middle child, who turned 7 last month, was starting to hate math. It got to the point where it was carrying over to the rest of the day. Her issue is that she's a perfectionist and was used to math being super easy. So when she had to work a little bit, her anxiety got terrible. We were doing Math-U-See and she had finished all of Alpha, all of Beta, and two-thirds of Gamma without any issues during the first grade year and she enjoyed it. But the the stress started. I wanted to pull her out of MUS but that caused more stress - it was important to her that she finish the Gamma book. So, I let her finish it but I started doing Life of Fred once a week. Then we took a week off with only Life of Fred. Then she started Delta with one day a week still just for Life of Fred. I really wanted to switch her only to LoF, but she was insistant that she did MUS since that's what her older brother did at her age. She's back in MUS now and zipping through Delta- stress free. Though I worry about what will happen once we get to long division. LoF helped relax her. We started at the very beginning, in Apples. LoF is still really easy for her - we're only in Cats - but she enjoys it and it's making math fun for her and help balancing MUS.

 

She is a gifted child, but unlike my oldest who thinks outside the box and can come up with his own ways to do problems, she wants to be told how to do it and then replicate it. She's a perfectionist, which is something my oldest doesn't have either. Her answers are rarely wrong - and if there's a chance, I know since I can hear her yelling and see the tears. I actually don't think she's necessarily a "math" child - I think she's more of an extremely trainable child with a great memory.

 

*We don't skip that many problems, though we have skipped worksheets completely. We don't skip any in LoF. In MUS, I have had my child do just the odds or evens before, but normally one worksheet doesn't take too long - though there's been exceptions. My crossing out problems caused tears though and a stressed out child insisting that the problems were there so she HAD to do them. It's worked better to assign one side of a sheet if the problems will take too long. Right now, she can handle two sheets two sides each. But for some sections, like the large multiplication problems, we stuck to one sheet with two sides. When my oldest was in the same grade, we actually had to leave the textbook for a short time since his distraction made the huge mult problems too hard for him. We did math enrichment activities and then tried again, with only one or two big problems a day. He didn't have the same focus at DD - and I'd say he's more gifted in math. She's trainable, but his application and analysis are naturally higher. But he's a boy. And I think that hurt him with the focus at times. But with an accelerated child, it's not a big deal. There's plenty of time to do other things!

[Maela]

oh this really sounds like my daughter (who is only 5.5)! She says things to us all the time that show that she really gets advanced mathematical concepts. It wows us. She enjoys learning new things if we're just talking about it. BUT she does not enjoy sitting down and doing math (Math Mammoth). She didn't used to be this way. Pre-kindergarten she used to do math worksheets for fun - unfortunately, I think I killed her love of math school work when I required too much this year in her K year. I mistakenly assumed that because she was ready for grades 1-2 math levels, she was also ready for grades 1-2 amount of math work each day.

 

then one day I read something similar to what one of the above posters said (bolding mine):

 

When I have an accelerated student, I try to keep time spent on the subject equivalent to what the average child their age would be doing at grade level, unless they *want* to do more. So a 1st grader in math, I think 15-20 minutes is plenty. DS1 did about 20 minutes a day in 1st grade (and he loves math). Now in 3rd grade, it's more like 30-45... an hour on days that we do CWP at the white board together, but that's split up into two math sessions those days.

Then I realized that I'd been expecting too much output from her. So now we do one page of MM a few times a week. Next year, it will move up to one page every day. Earlier this year, I was requiring 2 pages of MM every day. for a five year old. :-( dumb, I know.

[momsuz123]

Wow!! This thread is coming at a perfect time for me. My oldest dd is very strong in math, does a lot of problems in her head, etc. She begs to switch programs as soon as she thinks it is "hard". More like one of you said, "has to try". Thanks for the great ideas.

[Esse Quam Videri]

So I was going to post on a different forum, and then remembered that I'd posted here before... reread all of these thoughts, which was helpful.

 

DS still hates math. I feel like it's getting worse. He's only working about a year ahead in SM, when he could solve these multiplication problems mentally at 4. But for whatever reason, he has ZERO desire to do anything math related. I tried LOF- he thought it was okay to listen to, but when it came to doing the problems, same glazed over look. I tried BA- again, it was okay but no interest. Whether it's difficult or simple, he doesn't care. I feel like he's actually losing his mental math skills. Is there some way to keep his number sense/problem solving healthy and thriving, even while we slug through SM? Is there some way to sneak these things in without them looking like math? I feel like I'm failing him...

 

 

[MamaSprout]

So I was going to post on a different forum, and then remembered that I'd posted here before... reread all of these thoughts, which was helpful.

 

DS still hates math. I feel like it's getting worse. He's only working about a year ahead in SM, when he could solve these multiplication problems mentally at 4. But for whatever reason, he has ZERO desire to do anything math related. I tried LOF- he thought it was okay to listen to, but when it came to doing the problems, same glazed over look. I tried BA- again, it was okay but no interest. Whether it's difficult or simple, he doesn't care. I feel like he's actually losing his mental math skills. Is there some way to keep his number sense/problem solving healthy and thriving, even while we slug through SM? Is there some way to sneak these things in without them looking like math? I feel like I'm failing him...

 

FWIW, I did not read through the rest of the thread yet. I would suggest taking a spin through Knowing Mathematics and add in a "math video" each day. KM will be below his ability, but part of the program's intention is to create confidence, build number sense and fill in holes.

 

We've done that, and it has worked for us. For your math videos, choose fun ones like Vi Hart or MathTacular.

 

Mine could add up grocery prices and do math with negative numbers at 4, but pencil and paper math was a battle every day. When we started KM I told her we were taking a break to do "number phonics". The lessons are short but look like there's a lot there, which is part of what builds the confidence. They can be done independently.

 

We did one lesson a day most days, which she could do in 15 minutes (and did every problem on every page- so she could accomplish a completed workbook). Then a game or logic puzzle, and math videos for the rest of the hour.

 

In the book, there are instructions for reciting times facts every day. While my dd could skip count anything she needed, until then, I didn't realize that she couldn't go the other way efficiently. We did the reciting everyday for 6 weeks, but at the end she was reciting only the 9's and 12's and it took about 2 minutes. That was a major hole filled. I thought her head would explode the first time, though.

 

Towards the end of the book she became excited to move on to a different book, and volunteered to do 2 lessons a day while I was working with other students.

 

She had finished 4th and some 5th grade math at the time, so we did the green book, which takes 14 weeks as written. I would suggest probably gold or blue, which I think takes 10 or 12 weeks. If nothing else, that's 10 weeks where you are not battling each other.

 

http://www.eduplace.com/intervention/knowingmath/

 

Good Luck.

[boscopup]

Hmmm... Have you tried doing the problems at the white board instead of the workbook? Or sitting with him and alternating who does the problem ("Buddy Math")? I find that my kids enjoy math more if there is discussion involved.

 

Since I last posted, math in my home has changed. I've actually gone more the route of Dana, having my kids do more drill and such. ;) My oldest is doing prealgebra in 4th grade, but he was starting to not enjoy math as much. When I noticed him losing elementary skills, I changed things up. He is now doing CLE Math 500 (which is below is current level - it's ALL review and very easy for him) as "math practice" each morning. This takes about 15 minutes to do the speed drill and the lesson. This is teaching him to pay attention and not make silly mistakes, and it's also teaching him to show his work, label units, things like that. CLE is big on the math communication side of things, as Dana mentioned she teaches to her son. This has been a big benefit to my son, and I'm finding that he enjoys doing this math - it's spiral, so the types of problems are different throughout the lesson. And it's easy, so he's not having to think that hard (it's easy because it's below his working level - he finished Singapore 5B this past spring). Then in the afternoon, he sometimes does Dolciani Prealgebra (all the odd problems - yes, that is drill and kill). He finds Dolciani pretty easy, but the topics are sometimes new-ish. So that makes them a little more fun. Other times, he does AoPS Prealgebra, which is hard. I have him do AoPS at the white board. That makes everything more fun. I sit there with the answer key to check his answer after he completes a problem, but he mostly does the work on his own with very little socratic questioning from me. Just yesterday, he finished a chapter review, and I was amazed at how little help he need... because we had drilled so much with Dolciani before doing the rest of this chapter. :D Dolciani didn't go anywhere near the types of problems AoPS was giving, but with the comfort of a solid foundation in working with the basics of exponents, using the principles in AoPS became much easier. He basically flew through the review problems and was happy the whole time! :D He's loving math again. I don't think he would have been able to do this in 1st grade though... at that point, he had little stamina for much math or drill. It worked for him to skip things in the early grades, and start drilling later on.

 

My middle son is not doing multiple programs. He is in 1st grade and doing CLE 200 level. We do the speed drills and flash cards, and then he can fairly quickly do a lesson. He's done with math in 20 minutes, and he's enjoying himself again. I think the different problems each lesson are helping him stay interested. He's good at math, but he needs more spiral review than his big brother at this age. So we're going slower and not adding in challenging supplements right now, but we'll get to that later. I do plan to have him use CWP 2 this year, and we could also do some IP 2. But for now, we're just doing plain old CLE, and he likes it and is learning new things. Anything that isn't "conceptual enough" for me, I add the conceptual part to it. I've taught this before, so I know what I'm doing. We pull out manipulatives as needed, etc. His math facts are getting so strong that he no longer makes silly math fact errors, and he can now beat the speed drills. When we first started, he could do about half the problems in the 2 minutes allotted. Now he does all of them with 20 seconds to spare! It's made him more confident and able to focus more on the "why" of the math we're learning. He's not having to figure out basic stuff that should be automatic. This is working well for him. And the spiral is going better than mastery was. When we were in the middle of Singapore 1B money section, I gave the placement test for CLE, and he missed all the money problems. :lol: He had not remembered the different coin values. The instruction in Singapore was not long enough or repetitious enough to get it thoroughly ingrained. I pulled out MM1B money section and had him go through that. That gave him more practice and got him pretty good with money. He still had trouble remembering coin names though. Then we started the CLE 200, and he's doing money problems at least 2-3 times per week. He's now remembering the coin values (the math itself of adding the coins together isn't a problem - he's got that nailed).

 

So the focus in math in my homeschool has shifted toward more drilling to automaticity of the basics, while still delving into the deeper conceptual topics, and I ask "why" or "how did you get there" a lot. ;) When CLE asks DS2 to circle the shapes that are polygons in a list of shapes. I will also say, "So why aren't these other shapes polygons?" He has to point out his reasoning and explain what makes the other shapes not a polygon. That discussion makes math more interesting than just handing them a workbook page to complete.

[acurtis75]

I didn't see this thread originally because it was during a post-baby school break. I have a little btdt experience in this area. Dd8 hated math until recently. I think part of it is age & stamina. Part of it is something just clicking (like dmmetler mentioned)..and part of it is after we slogged through long division we started accelerating more rapidly.

 

When we got to portions of multi-digit multiplication and division dd struggled with the stamina to write things down correctly. I wrote for her some, turned lined paper sideways to help her keep columns straight, had her work some problems on the white board and others on the ipad screen. During that time we started supplementing a lot. Beast academy, life of Fred, cwp, living math books, a few math game workbooks, iPad apps to drill math facts, etc.

 

I also decided to stop making her do every problem on every worksheet. For tougher lessons we would do a couple of worksheets and then test. For easier lessons she would have a choice to do one worksheet and then test and move forward. Because we use mus and there is systematic review on the tests I was comfortable that she wasn't forgetting things she already learned.

 

Now that we have made it to curriculum that is less basic arithmetic and more challenging problem solving work she enjoys math and is asking for extra time to spend on it. I posted about this recently. She asked to do extra honors problems in her mus pre-algebra book and is enjoying the alcumus website.

[Esse Quam Videri]

As far as his instructional level, I do think he's where he needs to be even though his mathematical understanding is higher. He's such a strange student. Sometimes he just gets the answer right away. Sometimes I'm shocked by how quick he gets mental math questions- in isolation. Not every question. Not every day. Sometimes his mental processing is quicker than mine. Other times, even when I am scribing and we are talking through it, his focus is just not there and he can barely get through 5 questions, let alone the page. It's gotten to the point where we are only doing a lesson a day, stretching out longer lessons and reviews to two days- and for Singapore, that's a really small amount of work. But anything longer than 5-10 minutes and I lose him completely.

 

We do use the white board, and I do take turns scribing for him, because the writing definitely gets in the way. But it's not just the writing. It's the mental effort as much as the physical effort. He just doesn't want to think through the problems.

 

The funny thing is, he doesn't have a short attention span for our "content" subjects. And he loves memorization in context. When we studied U. S. History his Pre-K year, he knew all of the Revolutionary War battles, where and when they took place, even though we never did them as memory work. Then it was animals- he knows all kinds of facts about which species are endangered, critically endangered, near threatened, how many are left in the wild- all from his free reading. We finally decided to study zoology formally this year since that's all he was doing anyway. We're also doing World Geography and he can easily name many countries on a blank map, and we've barely worked on it. I know this is typical of boys (and girls) at that age, but just trying to give some background. That is where his interest ends- history, science, and geography- and only certain areas within each subject.

 

So, although he has the ability for critical thinking, it's like he's mentally lazy and memorizing things helps him to feel smart without having to think? LOL, I don't know. He definitely won't memorize any of his math facts.

 

Maybe if I had the time to create math questions that all involved endangered animals, he would race through arithmetic.  

 

I'm going to try the math videos, and I'm also going to try some of the other programs suggested. Perhaps he would like a different approach or at least a change of pace. But he's not an algorithm kid, and definitely enjoys mental, conceptual math more than written, which is why I really do want to continue SM.

 

I know that eventually his stamina will increase and math won't be so bad. But in the meantime, I feel like I'm stifling rather than fostering his math ability, which is obviously opposite my goals as an educator.
 

[JennW in SoCal]

 

So, although he has the ability for critical thinking, it's like he's mentally lazy and memorizing things helps him to feel smart without having to think? LOL, I don't know. He definitely won't memorize any of his math facts.

 

Maybe if I had the time to create math questions that all involved endangered animals, he would race through arithmetic.  

 

 

I had a kid very much like yours.  He was always good at math concepts yet always, ALWAYS, very uneven in his skills.  Never did memorize all his math facts.  Counted on his fingers, probably still does!  It drove me crazy.  He was also very good at things that interested him, able to hyper-focus, to memorize and recall random facts.  

 

He tested as 2E -- gifted but struggling with a few learning issues including ADHD.  He got through high school algebra by taking ritalin.  It was prescription that allowed him to only take what he needed when he needed it, so he took it just before we did math or before he had to take tests.  He said at the time that algebra was actually fun when we he was on the ritalin because the drug allowed him to be free from expending so much energy on focusing and instead could appreciate (and do) the math itself.  It became interesting instead of being frustrating.

 

Now, this is not to say your ds is also ADHD or has learning issues.  Just tuck it away in the back of your mind in case anything else presents itself as a problem.  In the meantime have some fun with math while tackling the skills bit by bit each day.   Try adding in some games or fun workbooks from Critical Thinking Press or Prufrock Press.  

[SierraNevada]

MofBethany - Wow, you couldn't have described our own situation more perfectly. So I am also happily reading the comments and trying to change tracks myself. The only difference is our boy is younger (5.5) and we only started officially homeschooling this year. I already feel like I have killed his love for math. I am also a 100% type of mom - at least when it comes to completing a curriculum. Our situation was that we began using the program ixl this year. It is a program that drives perfectionism and has too much repetition for one kid (especially gifted). The requirement to get thirty-two problems of the exact same type of problem, over and over again until you reach 100 was enticing to a box-checker off-er like myself, but drained the passion for my son. But for me, I wanted to finish, since we had paid for it, and at first, he really did like it. But as the problems became more repetitive and tedious to write down, he balked more and more. He still loved math, but only in his own way, and not at all while I was making him do his schooling. He still liked to read Murderous Maths, and other maths books. The thing that confuses me is that he says he wants to finish the grade level in order to earn all the little "rewards". But the handful of skills we have left (things he is already competent in) he wants to finish theoretically, but has major melt downs, attention problems, etc, while he is doing them. I have seen the attention problems bloom, as the repetition and tediousness of the work has increased. I sense that he needs to have more interesting math, not just adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing over and over again, in all it's forms. He is pretty fluent in all his math facts (we thank Big Brainz for that), so that is not the issue. Handwriting is his biggest hold-up, but when he can write large, on the white board, he makes way fewer mistakes. I have decided to just drop ixl, (with less than 10% to finish), give him a final 3rd grade test, to make sure he has it down and move into a different curriculum -  maybe even just winging a bunch of the curriculum myself. We are going to start reading some Life of Fred together, order the 4A Monster Academy (wish they only came out faster) and try to really back off the repetitiveness. I am also going to order some Penrose books, allow myself, and teach him, that it is okay to not do every single problem. We just got the Singapore program, and we will work through the more interesting CWP, and I might try Aleks. Anyway, that is my new plan. I think that fact that I was so rigid, and encouraged the mentality of doing every skill to 100% no matter what caused that problem. It is hard when you see your child has so much math talent, to not get carried away and want to make sure it is a solid, and thorough. I have a lot of learning to do myself, but mostly I need to make it more fun. Accelerated kids, still like stuff presented to them in the same manner as age mates, and might not be ready for the dryer presentation of their actual ability level. So it is our job to still make math be fun! Good luck, I am still struggling with this myself. 

[Esse Quam Videri]

So yesterday we were reviewing place value, and he wanted to go up to trillions and talk about decimal places (sister is learning decimals right now). I humored him and he actually stayed relatively engaged for 20 minutes! I'm feeling hopeful! Maybe give LOF another shot?

[mathwonk]

have you tried introducing him to an actual mathematician? i.e.someone who both loves and knows a lot about math?