Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I dunno, if before the kids just played upstairs and the adults were downstairs playing Bunco, why is this suddenly a problem? Did the kids cause problems before? That's what I was wondering. The whole situation sounds unnecessarily convoluted to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 JoAnn, after reading your most recent post, the couple sounds incredibly flaky. And the whole "not paying your dd while paying another kid" is a real weasel deal. They really are a nice family. They volunteer themselves and their home for a lot. Their daughter just gets lumped into that as well. They are generous with gifts as well. I don't know if the paying the teen but not the girls was their idea or the other moms. I think this whole thing is a lack of proper planning, making assumptions that they don't think twice about because of their own family philosophy and a huge miscommunication, especially knowing how poorly they communicate to begin with...and I don't think they intend to communicate so poorly. They just do, even with things that are just between them and involve no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Yeah if the kids are completely disruptive I can see that, but before it seemed to work. What do the adults want to do that requires the kids to be out of the house? maybe I don't really want to know... :leaving: :leaving: I'm right there with you!!! :scared: Is "bunco night" some sort of code for "adult entertainment?" ;) And why am I always the last one to know? :sneaky2: (Just kidding, JoAnn!!! :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I agree with everyone else. I'd just bow out on behalf of the whole family - or if your DH still chooses to attend, then at least on behalf of you and your children. Since you are not going anyway because you have a previous commitment with your DS, there is no reason to pay for babysitting for your other children. If you can't take the youngers with you to your DS's commitment, then your DD naturally has a previous commitment of watching YOUR kids, for free OR you can give her the 20 bucks and know that she has not been taken advantage of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saraha Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It sounds like a well intentioned idea that got out of hand and then it went, "well, how about this? No? How about this?" and as new components were added (teenage babysitter) old ideas were just added to. I doubt anyone is out to cheat any kid, or take someone's husband, it just sounds like seat of the pants planning by someone not very good at it. Maybe what needs to happen is you sit out this one and if you really like playing bunco with this group, initiate a conversation at the next get together to involve everyone who would attend and work out some kind of arrangement. Or send a message around when it is time to play again saying that your daughter is staying at home with your kids, but you have a name for a sitter if anyone needs one. Then there is no mistake about what YOU are planning on doing with your kids, and everyone else can plan accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 They really are a nice family. They volunteer themselves and their home for a lot. Their daughter just gets lumped into that as well. They are generous with gifts as well. I don't know if the paying the teen but not the girls was their idea or the other moms. I think this whole thing is a lack of proper planning, making assumptions that they don't think twice about because of their own family philosophy and a huge miscommunication, especially knowing how poorly they communicate to begin with...and I don't think they intend to communicate so poorly. They just do, even with things that are just between them and involve no one else. That's exactly what I meant when I said I thought they sounded incredibly flaky. :) I know you like them and want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they have totally messed this whole thing up. Having a few couples over for the evening isn't exactly rocket science, but this particular couple doesn't seem to be able to manage it. That's why I think they're flaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I agree that it sounds like things got out of hand and needlessly complicated. But it still makes no sense why she would expect you to pay $20 for babysitting when you weren't planning on going anyway and the only reason your DD was possibly going was to help them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I agree with everyone else. I'd just bow out on behalf of the whole family - or if your DH still chooses to attend, then at least on behalf of you and your children. Since you are not going anyway because you have a previous commitment with your DS, there is no reason to pay for babysitting for your other children. If you can't take the youngers with you to your DS's commitment, then your DD naturally has a previous commitment of watching YOUR kids, for free OR you can give her the 20 bucks and know that she has not been taken advantage of. This is where I am leaning. I just need to get DH completely on board; he still wants to clarify. He asked me to write up an explanation of what has occurred and our thoughts on it. I can't take my younger kids with me. We'll be sitting in a small planetarium for three hours while the kids practice and finalize an astronomy presentation, and then another hour to hour and a half while the kids give their presentation to the public. I can't see an active 6 year old and a 3 year old sitting quietly and still for five hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Nope. As the "2nd" babysitter, your 13yo should be paid at least half of what the 15yo is getting paid. She isn't going for fun, she would be working. If they really want her there, tell them the rate is $10 per family. Otherwise, go do other things and don't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Nope. DH can go if he loves bunco, but dd13 just can't make it. Sorry. No further explanation needed. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 This is where I am leaning. I just need to get DH completely on board; he still wants to clarify. He asked me to write up an explanation of what has occurred and our thoughts on it. I can't take my younger kids with me. We'll be sitting in a small planetarium for three hours while the kids practice and finalize an astronomy presentation, and then another hour to hour and a half while the kids give their presentation to the public. I can't see an active 6 year old and a 3 year old sitting quietly and still for five hours. Seriously? :confused: Why are you going to so much trouble about this? It's one night. It's nobody's birthday, wedding, or funeral. Why is bunco night worth this kind of aggravation and effort? It seems to me that the solution is simple. You take your older ds where he needs to go and your dh stays home with the younger kids -- or vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I wouldn't agree to anything that required a flowchart or a spreadsheet to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I wouldn't agree to anything that required a flowchart or a spreadsheet to figure out. Exactly. I don't understand why this is such a big deal. Just say no. Done. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Aw come on, I like flow charts and spread sheets. You people are no fun at all. Yeah, but you forgot to mention the part about how you would do the explanatory spreadsheet about the whole bunco night thing, and then put it in a big heavy binder so you could whack your dh over the head with it for even asking you to do something so ridiculous. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 No you have it all wrong. I'd make a dart board out of it. Or I'd line the cat box with it. I'm practical like that. Ok seriously, no disrespect meant to the OP. I think I'd just say no sorry I can't do it that night, maybe another night. Same here. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 This is where I am leaning. I just need to get DH completely on board; he still wants to clarify. He asked me to write up an explanation of what has occurred and our thoughts on it. I can't take my younger kids with me. We'll be sitting in a small planetarium for three hours while the kids practice and finalize an astronomy presentation, and then another hour to hour and a half while the kids give their presentation to the public. I can't see an active 6 year old and a 3 year old sitting quietly and still for five hours. sounds to me like your 13yo already has a prior engagement and is not available to babysit for the bunco party. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I wouldn't agree to anything that required a flowchart or a spreadsheet to figure out. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I wasn't clear. DH was going without me, and agreed to DD being one of three babysitters. The new information is that the 16 year old is actually 15 years old and we have to pay her $20, while no mention of the original two girls getting paid was made. No. Just no. Not fair at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 No. Just no. Not fair at all. :iagree: This is what I mean by being taken advantage of. If babysitters are getting paid, they ALL get paid. All or none, IMO. As for written clarification: "I feel more comfortable having my DD watch her own siblings in our own home. Thank you for the invitation - maybe next time." ETA: The problem doesn't sound like it's a communication problem. It definitely sounds like a manipulation problem. You said no, so they went to your DH. I am still strongly advocating that none of the children go and the decision lies with your DH as to whether he'd like to go, or not, without him volunteering your DD to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 When I rsvp'd no (with an explanation that I needed to take DS to his prior obligation), it through a wrench into their plans. The host couple have obvious problems with communication between the two of them. It isn't unusual for them to both contact someone about an issue and then not communicate with each other about it. Things get confused a lot. We've teased them about their lack of communication on several occasions. To add in them trying to communicate between four families, and it is a recipe for disaster. Plus, it is their MO to volunteer their daughter for things. They see it as a Christian service opportunity for her. The bolded is where I am basing my manipulation vs. communication comparison. Manipulation does not = evil. Good Christian people or not, they are still trying to manipulate the situation to their advantage by going to your DH with the "solution" (your DD "helping" to babysit) after you've already told them no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The bolded is where I am basing my manipulation vs. communication comparison. Manipulation does not = evil. Good Christian people or not, they are still trying to manipulate the situation to their advantage by going to your DH with the "solution" (your DD "helping" to babysit) after you've already told them no. :iagree: I'm still somewhat confused about why JoAnn seems to be defending these people, despite the fact that they are behaving so poorly. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 They really are a nice family. They volunteer themselves and their home for a lot. Their daughter just gets lumped into that as well. They are generous with gifts as well. I have friends like this too. I am sure your friends are really nice and that it is hard to read that they seem manipulative and suspicious to others. My friends who are like this have three daughter who volunteered (perhaps unwillingly?) to babysit all the time. Just figure out what your family really wants to do. If dh wants to go without you, maybe it will be a nice time. if your dd wants to watch your kids at home, great. If she would rather do the group sit thing, fine. Talk to your friend about the money if that is an issue for you. I would rather eat nails then play bunco, but if is nice they are trying to put something together and invited you over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowing Brook Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Sounds confusing when things that are supposed to be fun get confusing I bow out. I have enough day to day confusion without adding something that is supposed to be fun be confusing that I just skip it. Confusing fun is never fun. Have I confused anyone yet? Op I am not making fun of you or your situation. I just would not go or allow my dd to go if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I think y'all are making too much of this - it's not that awkward, you just need to give them a straightforward reply. By no means would I say dd is busy or such; why go through this again? Because you will, if you give them an excuse. "That's not going to work for us. DD can watch our kids at home for free, so it doesn't make any sense for to bring them and pay $20 for a sitter." or, if you won't actually let dd babysit her sibs: "No thanks, we're not interested in that setup. Honestly, I would not let my dd volunteer to babysit and then also pay $20 to a different sitter." Some people would preface with "I'm sorry," but I figure I have no reason to be sorry, I'm not doing anything wrong or mean. And when people do outrageous stuff, I also figure that, if they can have the cajones to ask, I can certainly have the cajones to say no. It's no big. Just politely say what you have to say. I can't imagine too many people are going to be irate about it. "Can you imagine the nerve of her, refusing to pay for a babysitter whilst her daughter babysits for free? How dare she!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well, DH wrote everyone to clarify and make sure there are no misunderstandings, and to say that we didn't think it was fair for the girls to not get compensated for their work if the older teen was getting compensated. He even offered an alternative solution that would include an adult (himself) watching the kids at our house and the girls splitting any "donation" from the parents equally. The response he got back sealed it for DH; they are no longer going. We have now been told that there might have been a slight misunderstanding. That the intent was to pay $10 per child (we have $20 per family in writing) and that we wouldn't be paying for our DD because she would be just hanging out with their daughter with no responsibility to watch the kids (again we have it in writing that they wanted the girls to babysit). They said they originally were going to have their own kids just stay home, but then thought they would have more fun hanging out with friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You guys are handling it well. Your friends are not. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yeah, but you forgot to mention the part about how you would do the explanatory spreadsheet about the whole bunco night thing, and then put it in a big heavy binder so you could whack your dh over the head with it for even asking you to do something so ridiculous. ;) :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well, DH wrote everyone to clarify and make sure there are no misunderstandings, and to say that we didn't think it was fair for the girls to not get compensated for their work if the older teen was getting compensated. He even offered an alternative solution that would include an adult (himself) watching the kids at our house and the girls splitting any "donation" from the parents equally. The response he got back sealed it for DH; they are no longer going. We have now been told that there might have been a slight misunderstanding. That the intent was to pay $10 per child (we have $20 per family in writing) and that we wouldn't be paying for our DD because she would be just hanging out with their daughter with no responsibility to watch the kids (again we have it in writing that they wanted the girls to babysit). They said they originally were going to have their own kids just stay home, but then thought they would have more fun hanging out with friends. Oh yikes! These people.do.not.have.their.acts.together! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 If your dh insists on going solo (nuts!): "Dear ___ and ___ I'm so sorry to have to miss Bunco night! As I mentioned last week, I have to take __ to an event all evening. However, dh does want to go, and is looking forward to it! Dd13 will be at home that night to babysit the other kids for us. As I am sure you understand, we save our very small babysitting budget for rare and precious date-nights, so we need her at home that night to allow dh to join the bunco fun, Have fun!! I hope we can both make it next time! XOXOXO, Me" If dh comes to his senses: " Dear ____ and ____, We're so sorry to miss the bunco fun, but because of our other kid-commitments that night, and our need to save our tiny babysitting budget for the rare anniversary/birthday dinner date night, we will all have to miss the fun this time! Keep us on the list for next time. We're always thrilled to join the fun, and when it isn't a family night, we can always leave our kids at home since dd13 is old enough to babysit them on occasion (and for free!) Have fun!! XOXO, Me and dh" Either of these approaches makes clear that you will NOT be paying for babysitting ever again, since you have already paid your dues by raising a child who is mature enough to sit for her siblings! Putting the $$ issue on the table allows them to offer to pay your 13yo in the future and/or to make plans that in some other way do NOT ask you to pay for babysitting. FWIW, this sounds totally bonkers to me. I'd have bailed several e-mails ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'm glad your dh stood up for clarity, what a confusing communication, all for a game night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I was typing while you posted the most recent update. Given the update, I would definitely just say, NO, probably something along the lines of above, but for all of you. And, in the future, I'd be really cautious about getting tied up in their crazy plans! Keep it simple if you want to stay close with these folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well, DH wrote everyone to clarify and make sure there are no misunderstandings, and to say that we didn't think it was fair for the girls to not get compensated for their work if the older teen was getting compensated. He even offered an alternative solution that would include an adult (himself) watching the kids at our house and the girls splitting any "donation" from the parents equally. The response he got back sealed it for DH; they are no longer going. We have now been told that there might have been a slight misunderstanding. That the intent was to pay $10 per child (we have $20 per family in writing) and that we wouldn't be paying for our DD because she would be just hanging out with their daughter with no responsibility to watch the kids (again we have it in writing that they wanted the girls to babysit). They said they originally were going to have their own kids just stay home, but then thought they would have more fun hanging out with friends. I'm glad they aren't going to go. This is WAY too much drama for a casual get-together. And FWIW, I know you think these people are lovely, but they flat-out lied to you. In writing, no less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 And FWIW, I know you think these people are lovely, but they flat-out lied to you. In writing, no less! Yeah, that is really bugging me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I find the separate invitation to you and your DH strange. plus the fact that the wife rang you and the husband rang your Dh to ask about the babysitting separately. What are they trying to do, start family fights? try to catch people out with inconsistent replies? Sounds like a Facebook invitation, where you select the people you are including. In that situation, it's not strange to check off both names on the possible list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well, DH wrote everyone to clarify and make sure there are no misunderstandings, and to say that we didn't think it was fair for the girls to not get compensated for their work if the older teen was getting compensated. He even offered an alternative solution that would include an adult (himself) watching the kids at our house and the girls splitting any "donation" from the parents equally. The response he got back sealed it for DH; they are no longer going. We have now been told that there might have been a slight misunderstanding. That the intent was to pay $10 per child (we have $20 per family in writing) and that we wouldn't be paying for our DD because she would be just hanging out with their daughter with no responsibility to watch the kids (again we have it in writing that they wanted the girls to babysit). They said they originally were going to have their own kids just stay home, but then thought they would have more fun hanging out with friends. That was tough. I'm sorry. I hope this settles down and you can resume your normal activities together. I'm not so sure they were out to be mean but definitely kept changing their ideas midstream without thinking everything through very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 We have now been told that there might have been a slight misunderstanding. And FWIW, I know you think these people are lovely, but they flat-out lied to you. In writing, no less! Just finished reading the whole thread and I'm rolling my eyes at the suggestion that there might have been a *slight* misunderstanding. Like Cat says--they lied. How awful! I'm just glad you all have decided to decline completely. What a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yeah, that is really bugging me. I'm sorry, JoAnn. I know you like them and wanted to believe the best about them. :( In the overall scheme of life, these weren't earthshattering lies, but whenever you catch someone in a lie, it makes it hard to trust them in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Joannqn, this would be a good time for your email to break down! Have a good time with your son at his presentation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 you rsvp'd you're not going. just tell them your dd can't make it, she has obligations of which your dh was not aware. If she's not babysitting your kids, you don't have to pay the babysitter squat. though, if you want to have some fun . . . you can pretend you didn't understand that all of the money is supposedly going to this girl and ask what the breakdown for payment to all three babysitters is - after all, everyone is now supposed to pay, and I would expect all three of them will be being paid (with a firm voice and hard stare.) I like how you think, gardenmom. I entertain myself upon occasion with this type of "fun". Yes, I'd leave my own kids home with my teen, and just go. I wouldn't offer my teen's free services while another girl would be getting paid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Sounds like a Facebook invitation, where you select the people you are including. In that situation, it's not strange to check off both names on the possible list. thanks for explaining. I am not on facebook and didn't know it works like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 DH thinks that it was doomed from the beginning. That they had thought to have the girls babysit, but after we expressed our discomfort about DD babysitting in that situation, that they changed plans and forgot to tell us about it. These people have the worst communication I've ever seen. There have been times when I was on the phone with the wife about something when the husband calls us about the same thing. And they were both at home, so you'd think they'd know what the other is doing. It has happened more than once. Or another time, the wife called to arrange to pick up their daughter from my house a little late, while the husband was already on his way to pick their daughter up himself. And this called/pick up happened within 5 minutes of them talking to each other about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Glad to hear this is somewhat resolved. What a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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