"Womb Tombs" - The Most Ridiculous Thing I've Heard All Month

[SproutMamaK]

 

Fix my ignorance - but what does that mean? I've never read a Margaret Atwood novel, so I don't know who she is and how it fits in?

 

In addition to what the others said, she places a great deal of emphasis on what men will allow women to do and not to do. Women aren't allowed to read, not even basic letter (they are all covered) because that promotes independent thinking. Women aren't allowed to speak to each other outside of approved religious subjects, because they might give each support in something that would defy authority. They aren't allowed to show any skin because that would be inappropriate. That have to wear identifying colours so that the men know exactly how they're supposed to feel about this 'brand' of woman. They are not allowed to do anything outside of the roles that the men have assigned to their designated class.

 

It's not a fun read, persay, but certainly a thought-provoking one. Definitely not one for when you just want to cuddle up with a hot chocolate and feel happy for a while, lol.

[PachiSusan]

In addition to what the others said, she places a great deal of emphasis on what men will allow women to do and not to do. Women aren't allowed to read, not even basic letter (they are all covered) because that promotes independent thinking. Women aren't allowed to speak to each other outside of approved religious subjects, because they might give each support in something that would defy authority. They aren't allowed to show any skin because that would be inappropriate. That have to wear identifying colours so that the men know exactly how they're supposed to feel about this 'brand' of woman. They are not allowed to do anything outside of the roles that the men have assigned to their designated class.

 

It's not a fun read, persay, but certainly a thought-provoking one. Definitely not one for when you just want to cuddle up with a hot chocolate and feel happy for a while, lol.

 

Scarlet letter comes to mind as well. UGH. Our society is quite the judgmental ones, eh? :crying:

[elizabeth]

Methinks he doth protest too much. I have seen this too many times. Those who run about discussing and focusing on sexual matters have a few skeletons in their "closet."

[Word Nerd]

 

 

This makes a lot of sense. For education oriented homeschool parents, homeschooling is more likely to be a means to an end. For folks like this Kevin dude, homeschooling is part of an paradigm and an orthodoxy of the "right" way to live and believe, the expansion of which they make their life's work. So they are going to put more energy into building their movement with big community, public events.

 

Exactly. They don't even call the summer conference a homeschooling conference anymore. It's the Rocky Mountain Super Conference on the Family. The focus is vision, family discipleship, home education, worldview, and parenting.

 

[PachiSusan]

This thread is sort of disheartening me. Can anyone bolster me up a bit? I am home schooling partly because of a religious world view issue, but I'm not out to change anyone else's world view. I want to have places where I can go be with like minded people, but I don't want ALL homeschooling to be just like mine. Where do you find such places of support if all the whackadoodles have been slowly taking over the Christian home schooling groups?

[misty.warden]

This thread is sort of disheartening me. Can anyone bolster me up a bit? I am home schooling partly because of a religious world view issue, but I'm not out to change anyone else's world view. I want to have places where I can go be with like minded people, but I don't want ALL homeschooling to be just like mine. Where do you find such places of support if all the whackadoodles have been slowly taking over the Christian home schooling groups?

 

When you find out, pm me so I can come too? Most homeschooling groups in my area are either radical unschooling fringe whackadoodles or the conservative religious Borg.

[Guest inoubliable]

This thread is sort of disheartening me. Can anyone bolster me up a bit? I am home schooling partly because of a religious world view issue, but I'm not out to change anyone else's world view. I want to have places where I can go be with like minded people, but I don't want ALL homeschooling to be just like mine. Where do you find such places of support if all the whackadoodles have been slowly taking over the Christian home schooling groups?

 

Um, here?

[Susan Wise Bauer]

 

This makes a lot of sense. For education oriented homeschool parents, homeschooling is more likely to be a means to an end. For folks like this Kevin dude, homeschooling is part of an paradigm and an orthodoxy of the "right" way to live and believe, the expansion of which they make their life's work. So they are going to put more energy into building their movement with big community, public events. Me? I am not part of a movement. I just want a happy, well educated kid who is spared what he would likely face in a big school setting.

 

Very, very well put.

 

SWB

[LarlaB]

 

This makes a lot of sense. For education oriented homeschool parents, homeschooling is more likely to be a means to an end. For folks like this Kevin dude, homeschooling is part of an paradigm and an orthodoxy of the "right" way to live and believe, the expansion of which they make their life's work. So they are going to put more energy into building their movement with big community, public events. Me? I am not part of a movement. I just want a happy, well educated kid who is spared what he would likely face in a big school setting.

 

You should put that on a coffee mug...

[PachiSusan]

 

Um, here?

 

LOL - well yes, here. I'm talking more about actual conventions and places/people IRL I can hang around with as well though. :)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This thread is sort of disheartening me. Can anyone bolster me up a bit? I am home schooling partly because of a religious world view issue, but I'm not out to change anyone else's world view. I want to have places where I can go be with like minded people, but I don't want ALL homeschooling to be just like mine. Where do you find such places of support if all the whackadoodles have been slowly taking over the Christian home schooling groups?

 

Agreeing with the others! This is the place. Welcome home.

[PachiSusan]

Agreeing with the others! This is the place. Welcome home.

 

Aw, thanks. :grouphug:

[Mommy22alyns]

 

LOL - well yes, here. I'm talking more about actual conventions and places/people IRL I can hang around with as well though. :)

 

 

When you find that, let me know too! I'm put off by most conventions because of the, um, "lifestyle" aspect. I missed the SWB ship, but next time she sails, I'm there.

 

But yes, this is the best online place. :thumbup1:

[JumpyTheFrog]

I do think schools play a part, but I'm not talking about abolishing the schools - I'm talking about destroying the Department of Education and starting over. There is a need for schools and I don't want to force everyone into home education,

 

That's the difference. Lots of people, religious or not, would like to return control of schools to the states or towns, and do away with the Dept. of Education. People like Kevin Swanson want ALL schools closed. Every woman is supposed to marry young and be quiverful in their paradigm. Then she will homeschool all her kids, no matter the circumstances. Families where both parents have to work to survive that can't afford private schools will be out of luck. It would be like the third world where so many kids go without educations because their parents are poor, which dooms following generations to a cycle of poverty.

 

Families with special ed kids would be even more out of luck.

[PachiSusan]

 

 

When you find that, let me know too! I'm put off by most conventions because of the, um, "lifestyle" aspect. I missed the SWB ship, but next time she sails, I'm there.

 

But yes, this is the best online place. :thumbup1:

 

I think HiC is pretty cool too! ;)

 

But seriously, it's really hard to feel at home and I've only been here actively a few weeks and I can already feel that it's a great place to be.

[PachiSusan]

That's the difference. Lots of people, religious or not, would like to return control of schools to the states or towns, and do away with the Dept. of Education. People like Kevin Swanson want ALL schools closed. Every woman is supposed to marry young and be quiverful in their paradigm. Then she will homeschool all her kids, no matter the circumstances. Families where both parents have to survive that can't afford private schools will be out of luck. It would be like the third world where so many kids go without educations because their parents are poor, which dooms following generations to a cycle of poverty.

 

Families with special ed kids would be even more out of luck.

 

I absolutely categorically do not want all schools closed. I guess in reality though, they would have to for awhile to deconstruct them and make them anew. Rats.

[Jane in NC]

That's the difference. Lots of people, religious or not, would like to return control of schools to the states or towns, and do away with the Dept. of Education. People like Kevin Swanson want ALL schools closed. Every woman is supposed to marry young and be quiverful in their paradigm. Then she will homeschool all her kids, no matter the circumstances. Families where both parents have to survive that can't afford private schools will be out of luck. It would be like the third world where so many kids go without educations because their parents are poor, which dooms following generations to a cycle of poverty.

 

Families with special ed kids would be even more out of luck.

But how much control does the Department of Education really have? Whenever I have heard discussions of the success of schools in other countries (like Finland), it is usually mentioned that in the US every state has different standards. (Not that my comment has anything to do with this thread.)

[Lady Florida.]

This guy is just nuts. I know some pretty conservative Christians IRL, but don't know anyone who subscribes to his beliefs. I spent less than *10 minutes* (I hope SWB is not too disappointed that her curriculum was too intellectual for him) at that facebook page, and that was still more than I could take.

 

 

Hahaha. I didn't know that was said on that show! I had to ask my DS12 "what's "great googly moogly" got to do with Phineas and Ferb?". I've never seen the show, but I grew up with my Da saying that phrase all the time! And now DS12 is saying "wow, mom. Way to pay attention to what we watch on TV...".

 

Great googly moogly is in a Frank Zappa song...says the old lady of the forum.

 

HuffPo is smart about their marketing, tho. And the stories that will get reposted by the horrified. Got to admire that, in its own way.

 

SWB

That's why I actually don't count them in my "trusted news source" hand bag. A lot of things to read, not all "news" or "newsworthy".

 

I am one that is very disheartened that news is not news anymore, but opinion and agenda. :(

 

Agreed. I'm about as liberal as one can get, and even I don't consider HuffPo a trustworthy news source.

[PachiSusan]

But how much control does the Department of Education really have? Whenever I have heard discussions of the success of schools in other countries (like Finland), it is usually mentioned that in the US every state has different standards. (Not that my comment has anything to do with this thread.)

 

No Child Left Behind, for one. Common Core. The DofE have a tremendous amount of control over what the states are allowed to offer.

[Jane in NC]

No Child Left Behind, for one. Common Core. The DofE have a tremendous amount of control over what the states are allowed to offer.

Yeah but state education departments still influence content of textbooks. Unfortunately in some cases...

[PachiSusan]

Yeah but state education departments still influence content of textbooks. Unfortunately in some cases...

 

Ha ha I know. Ahem, California is where I am from. I've seen the tripe they put out. UGH.

[Jane in NC]

Ha ha I know. Ahem, California is where I am from. I've seen the tripe they put out. UGH.

I was thinking of Texas...

 

While Leave No Child Untested is certainly problematic, I think we find lots of problematic places to point fingers. Including whatever school system educated the guy mentioned in the first post!

[Guest inoubliable]

Great googly moogly is in a Frank Zappa song...says the old lady of the forum.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. I'm about as liberal as one can get, and even I don't consider HuffPo a trustworthy news source.

 

 

I'm totally calling my Da out on that this weekend!

 

And, aye. Same here. My nametag says Pinko Lib'rul Commie and I don't consider HuffPo a "news" source.

[PachiSusan]

I was thinking of Texas...

 

While Leave No Child Untested is certainly problematic, I think we find lots of problematic places to point fingers. Including whatever school system educated the guy mentioned in the first post!

 

 

LOL - I hear you. I have heard him speak and he may be very well educated, but blinded by his agenda.

[Lynnae]

Yowzers! He was the keynote speaker at the one and only conference I've ever attended. He struck me as passionate about his beliefs, and I didn't agree with everything he said, but I didn't know his beliefs were so out there.

 

Anyway, I've always gotten way more out of these forums than I ever did that one conference. And I don't have to pay a conference fee or rent a hotel room to glean info from the forums. I doubt I'll ever attend another homeschooling conference, but if I do, I'll make sure to do a background check on the keynote speakers first.

 

I'm probably not his target audience anyway. While I am a conservative Christian, I homeschool through *gasp* a public charter school.

[PachiSusan]

Yowzers! He was the keynote speaker at the one and only conference I've ever attended. He struck me as passionate about his beliefs, and I didn't agree with everything he said, but I didn't know his beliefs were so out there.

 

Anyway, I've always gotten way more out of these forums than I ever did that one conference. And I don't have to pay a conference fee or rent a hotel room to glean info from the forums. I doubt I'll ever attend another homeschooling conference, but if I do, I'll make sure to do a background check on the keynote speakers first.

 

I'm probably not his target audience anyway. While I am a conservative Christian, I homeschool through *gasp* a public charter school.

 

 

For SHAME!!!!!!!!!!! :willy_nilly:

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..j/k

[SarahW]

SWB, he does know who you are and claims he used your curriculum for "about 10 minutes." :tongue_smilie:

 

 

He sees the advent of agriculture as antithetical to the Garden of Eden. :bored:

 

Okay!

 

The title of the podcast is The Commonalities, the Genius, and the Paganism. What is "the Paganism"?

 

And I don't like his minority pronunciation of "maturity."

 

I only got 2 minutes in. Sorry.

 

This makes me sad because if that's so then there's a lot of women getting a whole heaping load of guilt dumped on their plates.

 

 

Seriously. Can you even imagine what it would be like if you had used BC for a few years, and then believed what he said? I can't even imagine....ugh. :crying:

 

I found out that a state homeschool convention I was thinking of going to has this guy as their keynote speaker. He has top-of-page bragging rights on the homepage and everything. cr@p! they have a used book sale! I can't go. I just can't. It's not worth my sanity. Even if I skip all the keynotes I'll end up walking around like this all day :cursing:

 

There's a different one later, closer to me. So far none of the speakers look shady. But most of the workshops look like curriculum presentations. grrr...

 

SWB had an interesting blog post about conferences: http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/publicity/one-more-update-about-future-plans/ . I agree. What's with this push towards lifestyle agreement? The last one of those I signed was in college (and I think I broke it). Nobody thinks it's necessary to teach your kid yoga in order to teach them cursive, so why is so much crazy stuff being added on?

 

I know, I know. A sociologist and some research could answer that question quite satisfactorily. But still, it's frustrating.

[TravelingChris]

My mom used the phrase and she was speaking Polish to me. Now I have since learned that she sometimes used French, Italian, German or British phrases within our conversations but it was certainly not from FRank Zappa. I seem to remember her using that phrase when I was little so I expect 1965 or 1966., But, like I said, she used phrases she picked up while living in other countries or speaking other languages. That was all pre 1960, because I think 1960 is when my family moved to the US from London. (I was born here in the USA)

[PachiSusan]

SWB had an interesting blog post about conferences: http://www.susanwise...t-future-plans/

 

The link doesn't work for me.

 

[TravelingChris]

About this fellow, I think he is a fool and not someone I would endorse. He certainly isn't typical of conservative Homeschoolers, whether religiously conservative, educationally conservative or politically conservative. Of course, even though I can agree with the early 20th century Fundamentalist statement, I think he wouldn't agree that I am a conservative Christian since we have women elders in our congregation and women deacons.

 

I wish these fools would stop trying to tie in biology into the abortion debate. I am prolife but all this crazy talk about womb graves, nobody can concieve with a rape, and all such other talk is nuts and not conducive to making anyone change their minds. Learn about biology. Apparently he doesn't understand how birth control pills work. Oh, and I am not a fan of BC pills but not because of being pro-life but for health reasons that don't include things like womb graves but regular risks like migraines and blood clots.

[SarahW]

SWB had an interesting blog post about conferences: http://www.susanwise...t-future-plans/

 

The link doesn't work for me.

 

 

Ugh, sorry. I changed it three times and it still isn't coming up right. Take the "I" off the end.

 

Or try this: http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/publicity/one-more-update-about-future-plans/

[PachiSusan]

About this fellow, I think he is a fool and not someone I would endorse. He certainly isn't typical of conservative Homeschoolers, whether religiously conservative, educationally conservative or politically conservative. Of course, even though I can agree with the early 20th century Fundamentalist statement, I think he wouldn't agree that I am a conservative Christian since we have women elders in our congregation and women deacons.

 

I wish these fools would stop trying to tie in biology into the abortion debate. I am prolife but all this crazy talk about womb graves, nobody can concieve with a rape, and all such other talk is nuts and not conducive to making anyone change their minds. Learn about biology. Apparently he doesn't understand how birth control pills work. Oh, and I am not a fan of BC pills but not because of being pro-life but for health reasons that don't include things like womb graves but regular risks like migraines and blood clots.

 

Actually, I think he DOES know how the BC pill can work (its 3 main actions are is to prevent ovulation, prevent implantation, or thin the lining to make it inhospitable to an embryo growing) , but he's woefully ignorant on female biology after that. Whether a fetus was conceived or not, the next menses would clear out the "womb tomb" anyway.

[PachiSusan]

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Ugh, sorry. I changed it three times and it still isn't coming up right. Take the "I" off the end.

 

Or try this: http://www.susanwise...t-future-plans/

 

That worked. Thank you. Susan is a very wise woman. She's got a great name too! :)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I can't help myself. I have to share this, as it has to do with understanding human reproduction. Last night I was watching A Bit of Fry and Laurie on Netflix, and this is from the first episode:

 

[MommaOfalotta]

This thread is sort of disheartening me. Can anyone bolster me up a bit? I am home schooling partly because of a religious world view issue, but I'm not out to change anyone else's world view. I want to have places where I can go be with like minded people, but I don't want ALL homeschooling to be just like mine. Where do you find such places of support if all the whackadoodles have been slowly taking over the Christian home schooling groups?

 

 

This place is wonderful. I mean.. WONDERFUL!

 

Im also really lucky to be in a Christian co-op. Its shocking that my itty bitty farm town even HAS enough homeschoolers to have a co-op, let alone one thats over 100 kids strong!

 

The co-op is great because when I get those "Ahhh! Why did I think I could do this? Everyone is talking smack... Im making a fool out of myself. I can't do this" moments, I see other moms my age and from my hometown showing me I can. kwim?

 

The thing that bugs me the most is that dd is going GREAT. We are ahead of schedule and loving every minute. You would think that would be more than enough to keep me going but its funny how one negative word from a family member can cause you days of being at war with yourself. My friends dont homeschool, and they dont understand.. but my new friends from co-op do! And WTM! & it helps so much.

 

ETA: Way to get extremely off topic, Kelsey. Sorry, Im prone to outbursts.. :leaving:

[PachiSusan]

I can't help myself. I have to share this, as it has to do with understanding human reproduction. Last night I was watching A Bit of Fry and Laurie on Netflix, and this is from the first episode:

 

 

Oh I love Fry and Laurie!!!!

[MFG]

Am I the only one who, after reading the thread title, did not think of birth control but of the social safety net ("womb to the tomb" care)? I thought the thread might get in trouble for being too political.

[misty.warden]

Am I the only one who, after reading the thread title, did not think of birth control but of the social safety net ("womb to the tomb" care)? I thought the thread might get in trouble for being too political.

 

Never heard of this. At first I thought it might be about a medically induced menopause type device for people who want to "retire" their womb permanently. Doctors are all about catchy names.

[katilac]

Am I the only one who, after reading the thread title, did not think of birth control but of the social safety net ("womb to the tomb" care)? I thought the thread might get in trouble for being too political.

 

No, I've only ever heard it as 'cradle to grave.'

 

Parenthetically, I think I am going to start referring to my period as clearing out the womb tomb.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

Parenthetically, I think I am going to start referring to my period as clearing out the womb tomb.

 

Bwaha!

[TXBeth]

 

 

No, I've only ever heard it as 'cradle to grave.'

 

Parenthetically, I think I am going to start referring to my period as clearing out the womb tomb.

 

It made me think of West Side Story where Tony and Riff are making up and they "womb to tomb, sperm to worm."

[Mrs Mungo]

I think he wouldn't agree that I am a conservative Christian since we have women elders in our congregation and women deacons.

 

This does become a problem, doesn't it? Everyone working with different definitions.

[Caitilin]

 

 

It made me think of West Side Story where Tony and Riff are making up and they "womb to tomb, sperm to worm."

 

 

And "birth to earth" too, don't forget! But yes, that was my first thought too. :)

[Trish]

Well, given the nature of the topic, the fact that it's the weirdest thing you've heard all MONTH makes it slightly creepier than if you had said all week or all year.

[*Lulu*]

I clicked thrugh a few links and read just enough to satisfy myself that he is a wackadoo of the first order. I would llke to poke around more and satisfy myself that I no one I acctually listen to on any subject has a tie to him, but I am too busy fitting the BG (aka "success") into our school to fool with it tonight.

 

I shared a few of Swanson's comments with DH and voiced my irritation. DH said I was one of those over educated women Swanson was warning about and I should learn to obey him. He is lucky I have a good sense of humor and a poor aim.

 

(Seriously, he was still chuckling when he limped out of the room!)

[Alessandra]

I'm coming from this from a different experience. I've known Kevin for a number of years, and yes, he's gotten more and more out there. I don't often go to his keynote address because I get a headache from his yelling. He is a passionate man, who strongly believes in what he preaches, and I respect him for that. We parted ways (I worked at the CHEC booth for years at convention) a number of years ago, when my 2nd dd went to USNA. We haven't spoken since my next one went Army. :laugh: We have friends who have left Kevin's church over his stance on education for women. I was saddened when CHEC went to a "family" convention from a hsing convention a few years back. The current head of CHEC, Mike Chapa, was horrified when I asked what he taught at USAFA as I thought Navy girl might have had him when she was on exchange. CHEC still has some good speakers and a great vendor hall and that's what I go for. If I don't get to do a Tiger Cruise with Navy girl I may go to the GHC in Cincinnati this year. I will miss seeing my friends at CHEC and I've been rethinking my annual donation to them. I do value their work with the law and the hsing intro sessions, but the rest of CHEC has changed... Kevin's always been a bit over the top...

 

 

Margaret -- I always enjoy hearing your perspective. Even though I despise what this Kevin person says and what he stands for, it is good to have a more three dimensional view. So, K wasn't always so radical? I wonder what turns people down the path of so much intolerance; I could understand a child of the Pearl's acting this way. Do you know anything about K's background, childhood, family?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Well, given the nature of the topic, the fact that it's the weirdest thing you've heard all MONTH makes it slightly creepier than if you had said all week or all year.

 

Well, I hear a lot of crazy stuff. I wanted to leave some wiggle room in case later I remember something even more bizarre. (The "wife discipline" someone at my former church is rumored to practice comes to mind.)

[SunnyDays]

I clicked thrugh a few links and read just enough to satisfy myself that he is a wackadoo of the first order. I would llke to poke around more and satisfy myself that I no one I acctually listen to on any subject has a tie to him, but I am too busy fitting the BG (aka "success") into our school to fool with it tonight.

 

I shared a few of Swanson's comments with DH and voiced my irritation. DH said I was one of those over educated women Swanson was warning about and I should learn to obey him. He is lucky I have a good sense of humor and a poor aim.

 

(Seriously, he was still chuckling when he limped out of the room!)

 

Oh yeah... I wonder what *this* guy would say about our friend, the B-Goddess success!! :smilielol5:

 

I just shared this thread and the original quoted statement with DH. He threw out the word "Whackadoodle." He's got the lingo down. ;)

[Impish]

And now I have music in my head.

 

When yer a Jet you're a Jet all the way...

[Impish]