Am I the only one who feels

[Spryte]

No flames here. The whole situation is sad.

[justamouse]

*bigsigh*

 

It doesn't come into play. I've already explained what I meant. Feel free to read the entire thread.

 

 

What I think many of us are reacting to is your automatic idea that because your town is conservative, therefore they are glad of this man's death. That says a lot.

 

Perhaps you want to go back and edit your first post or put an addendum in there. You can't get exasperated with people on the board who are handling the insult with the kindness of bringing this to your attention.

[thebacabunch]

I am not sorry he is dead. I also don't believe that we are past redemption when we die. I believe that only God can judge the intents of our hearts and judge us accordingly. I have been in agony for the parents of the child. I have a kiddo on the spectrum and the thought of the trauma she would go through just being away from home makes me sick. THe thought of somebody that mentally ill stealing an innocent and shooting another innocent is horrifying to me. I feel no joy in his death. I do feel relief.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

What I think many of us are reacting to is your automatic idea that because your town is conservative, therefore they are glad of this mans death. That says a lot.

 

Perhaps you want to go back and edit your first post or put an addendum in there. You can't get exasperated with people on the board who are handling the insult with the kindness of bringing this to your attention.

 

 

That's not what I said, though. And I did clarify in post #20. I didn't bother editing the original comment since it was quoted anyway. I wasn't trying to insult anyone. No one here is from my town anyway, that I'm aware of. And, good grief, I didn't even mean "conservative" in a political way. I meant it in an "eye for an eye" sort of way. Sort of weird that some people's back got put up over taking it in a political tone. I didn't anticipate that. Hence the clarification. Not exasperated, either. Just a little surprised that people are reading the first mention of it and hitting reply without seeing what else was said.

[Mergath]

I don't take joy in anyone's death, even people that have done horrific things. Relief that they won't be able to hurt anyone else? Sure. But not joy in the death itself. Anyone who feels actual joy over the necessity of ending another person's life should take a good, hard look at him or herself.

[Crimson Wife]

To me, it shows that he was beyond redemption.

 

 

No sin is so great that the sinner cannot find redemption through Christ. Just look at some of the greatest saints in history who led horribly wicked lives before God helped them find redemption. Now that's not to say that the criminals shouldn't face punishment here on Earth for what they have done. But at least in prison or a mental institution, they might be able to come to a place where they find spiritual atonement.

[TravelingChris]

Let's say that I am relieved that the situation is resolved and that the child appeared not to be physically hurt. I am a conservative too but I don;t think that glee at death is a particularly political thing.

 

I also think that there is a difference between being happy Osama Bin Laden is dead and this guy being dead. I think a lot of people suspect that this dude was mentally ill- possibly some type of paronoid disorder. That said, he seems to have been a particularly mean mentally ill person. On the other hand, no one has suggested that Osama Bin Laden was mentally ill. People just thought he was evil. This dude here is a little different than the CT killer or the CO killer. In those cases, we don't have any reason to believe that these people were evil- no prior bad behavior, no prior criminal history. So we can believe more in the mentally ill scenario. This guy seems to be a bit of both.

 

But regardless of whether anybody is evil or mentally ill, my hope is always that they repent or get effective treatment depending on the issue. It is never to wish horrendous tortures and punishments and whatnot. So the bloodlust some of you are describing- none of my facebook friends do this- is over the top, IMHO.

[Izzy]

 

 

That's not what I said, though. And I did clarify in post #20. I didn't bother editing the original comment since it was quoted anyway. I wasn't trying to insult anyone. No one here is from my town anyway, that I'm aware of. And, good grief, I didn't even mean "conservative" in a political way. I meant it in an "eye for an eye" sort of way. Sort of weird that some people's back got put up over taking it in a political tone. I didn't anticipate that. Hence the clarification. Not exasperated, either. Just a little surprised that people are reading the first mention of it and hitting reply without seeing what else was said.

 

 

I wouldn't worry about it. The same people making a stink about one sentence would have found something else to pick apart even if you reworded it. It's sort of humorous if you think about it. It's such a minor detail and has nothing to do with the thread itself.

[SKL]

Maybe it's because my town is so conservative then. I was out with the realtor yesterday and we just kept hearing it over and over. In the post office before I met the realtor, in the street as I walked in to the mortgage guy's office, out of the mouth of a neighbor at one of the houses. And then online! Eek! Some of the things being said! It just seemed over the top and cruel, to be honest.

 

I hadn't read about the little boy's mother making that request. I hope that family can find peace soon.

 

 

It might be a local thing to your town (and perhaps some other locations). Where I live, nobody has said a single word about it. Nor have I seen any comment whatsoever on facebook. My personal first reaction was a huge feeling of relief that the little boy was safe. Honestly, I didn't even care what happened to that guy. We don't typically torture prisoners in this country, so whatever happened to him was not likely to upset me. The law enforcement folks who gave the report didn't look all proud of having taken his life. I leave his afterlife to God's judgment.

 

I do understand now that you meant conservative in a religious or old-fashioned sort of way. But I'm not surprised people took it the way they did - and don't be surprised if someone also complains about the "small town" comment.

[Word Nerd]

I wouldn't worry about it. The same people making a stink about one sentence would have found something else to pick apart even if you reworded it. It's sort of humorous if you think about it. It's such a minor detail and has nothing to do with the thread itself.

 

I agree that the whether the OP has a lot of conservatives—whether religious or political—in her area has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread, which is why I replied as I did. If you prefer to believe others and I were "making a stink" in a fit of pique, knock yourself out, but it was in fact simply a statement.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The whole reason that the mentally ill cannot be sentenced with death is because they are unable to give a full and honest confession to cleanse their souls before death. It was something that the RC church brought about.

 

 

 

Um, no.

The mentally ill can be, and often are, executed. Someone who has been found mentally incompetent cannot (in theory) be executed. Your reasoning may be why the Catholic Church fought against executing the mentally ill, but that reasoning has nothing to do with the USSC decisions on the matter.

 

In Panetti v. Quarterman,127 S. Ct. 2842 (2007), the Supreme Court reaffirmed that a defendant can not be executed if he is incompetent at the time of his execution and clarified the Ford standard. Panetti's lawyers argued that Panetti was not given an opportunity to show that he was not competent to be executed. The Texas judge presiding over the case had appointed experts to determine Panetti's competence but did not give Panetti's attorneys the opportunity to present defense experts. The Supreme Court agreed with Panetti and held that he did not receive his due process rights to a fair competency hearing. The Supreme Court also clarified what it means to be competent to be executed and held that a defendant must have a "rational understanding of the reason for the execution."

http://www.aclu.org/capital-punishment/mental-illness-and-death-penalty

[linders]

I'm with you.

 

There are some people out there who are just nasty, selfish people. I don't feel sorry for them, in general. But someone like the hostage-taker? He had some serious emotional issues, and I don't get the sense that he had anyone (family, friends) to help him with those issues.

 

Glad the boy is alive. Sad that that man was so troubled that he would do something like this, and wonder who I saw today - on the street, in a store - who is troubled and has nowhere to turn.

[unsinkable]

 

 

I wouldn't worry about it. The same people making a stink about one sentence would have found something else to pick apart even if you reworded it. It's sort of humorous if you think about it. It's such a minor detail and has nothing to do with the thread itself.

 

 

That is the nature of this board...some posters will pick apart a post and then just hammer away about it, get their board friends to join in and just go on and on until they decide they are done.

 

Then they call for cupcakes and kilts.

 

And sometimes the hammerers become the hammered and they don't like it.

[unsinkable]

I'm with you.

 

There are some people out there who are just nasty, selfish people. I don't feel sorry for them, in general. But someone like the hostage-taker? He had some serious emotional issues, and I don't get the sense that he had anyone (family, friends) to help him with those issues.

 

Glad the boy is alive. Sad that that man was so troubled that he would do something like this, and wonder who I saw today - on the street, in a store - who is troubled and has nowhere to turn.

 

 

Some are just nasty and selfish...nasty and selfish enough to shoot and kill and kidnap and torment.

[PachiSusan]

You are not alone. Sometimes I think our society has turned into the Romans in the coliseum egging on the gladiators to spill blood for us to see... :(

[swellmomma]

mental issues or not, I feel no compassion for someone that harm's a child. mental issues do not excuse that sort of behaviour. Frankly I am glad he is dead and unable to harm that boy or anyone else ever again.

[MooCow]

I believe that every.single.one of us is a child of God and that this man is loved by Him just as much as I am. I'm not saying that it was wrong that he was killed, I am saying that I was shocked at how many people seemed to glory in that fact. "glad they got the SOB!", "Let him rot", "Glad he got what was coming to him". Wow.

 

There is no glory in the fact that some woman's sick son grew up to break her heart by doing unspeakable acts of violence to others. That man was once a little boy who played with toy cars and built forts in the dirt. May the Lord have mercy on his soul.

I recognize that it had to be done, but that fact truly saddens me. No shouting for joy or fist pumps in the air here.

:iagree:

[Susann]

 

*bigsigh*

 

It doesn't come into play. I've already explained what I meant. Feel free to read the entire thread.

*bigsigh* I have read the entire thread. You posted it while I was posting-you might want to go back and edit the original so others don't miss it.

[Word Nerd]

 

 

I also think that there is a difference between being happy Osama Bin Laden is dead and this guy being dead.

 

 

I agree that the two aren't the same situation; I was just reminded of it when reading the thread. When emotions are running hot, we're also more prone to hyperbole and exaggeration and saying things we don't really mean. I doubt that anyone would speak so flippantly about the man's death if they had been responsible for handling the hostage crisis, determining whether lethal force was necessary to rescue the boy, and executing the rescue plan.

[Susann]

delete

[Jenny in Florida]

mental issues or not, I feel no compassion for someone that harm's a child. mental issues do not excuse that sort of behaviour. Frankly I am glad he is dead and unable to harm that boy or anyone else ever again.

 

Yes, your posts on the original thread were in my mind when I wrote my replies here earlier.

 

I'm not sure what good this kind of post does here, though, for those of us who don't share your joy.

[swellmomma]

Yes, your posts on the original thread were in my mind when I wrote my replies here earlier.

 

I'm not sure what good this kind of post does here, though, for those of us who don't share your joy.

 

Big difference between being glad he can no longer harm another and having joy. Do not make presumptions AND I never even posted in the Original threads so what are you even referring to?

[gardenmom5]

mental issues or not, I feel no compassion for someone that harm's a child. mental issues do not excuse that sort of behaviour. Frankly I am glad he is dead and unable to harm that boy or anyone else ever again.

fortunately, in the eternal scheme of things, your judgment that "mental issues do not excuse" doesn't matter. you've obviously never dealt with someone with very serious mental health challenges.

[I.Dup.]

I did not jump for joy or dance with Osama was killed (or Saddam), but I do believe when you're talking about people like Saddam, Osama, or Hitler, that some people are better off dead.

 

ETA: Or maybe it's the rest of the world that is better off without them. They're most likely not better off dead.

[swellmomma]

fortunately, in the eternal scheme of things, your judgment that "mental issues do not excuse" doesn't matter. you've obviously never dealt with someone with very serious mental health challenges.

 

Have you never seen me post about my son? Yeah never dealt with anyone with serious mental issues, that's rather amusing.

[MooCow]

How do we force someone to get help that doesn't want it? How do we determine who is so bad that there should be an intervention against their will? Who gets to determine the criteria? I know many people who want more help for the mentally ill, but there are big problems in getting help for those who don't feel they have a problem or who don't want help. It seems they aren't forced until they hurt someone. I honestly don't know how to change that. This guy seemed to question and dislike most authority so I don't think just offering him services would have done much.

 

Exactly. What if you KNOW someone is mentally ill, refuses their meds, won't go to appts.,

self-medicates instead (ie, drugs, alcohol), commits petty crimes(so far); and the probation dept.,

social services, the courts, all choose to ignore it and really do nothing to help?? They just

pass the buck time and time again between their offices, not listening to family members

who are screaming at the top of their lungs for help for this person,

and choosing the believe the person who is ill, and really good at saying what the

so called people in charge want to hear and playing their little game

because it is easier, and nobody has to do anything or accept responsibility.

 

ok. rant done. sorry.

[DaffodilDreams]

I've been so busy in the evenings lately that I haven't been able to watch the news and I never have it on during the day, so I haven't been following this too closely. However, I did sneak into my AP app yesterday and saw an article on the incident. My initial reaction - voiced to dh - was NOT thank goodness they killed the ---, but wow, it sounds like he had such and such mental illness. I'm just sad about every bit of the situation. Someone up thread mentioned feeling sadness when bin Laden was killed, too. That's how I felt, too. Not because I thought he was a great man (I don't think he was) but because I thought it was horrific to see and hear people glorying in the death of another human. Again, the whole situation was sad. It was sad that while he lived, he was a monster doing evil things; it was sad that he needed to be stopped and the only apparent way to do so was to take his life; it was very sad to see and hear so many people rejoicing in another's death. That's how I feel about the AL incident, too. I guess what I'm trying to say is I just feel regret that things ever come to such a head. I wish the world was such a place that these sorts of thing didn't ever have to happen.

 

You may say I'm a dreamer . . . (Lennon)

[Annie G]

 

I haven't read anything too in depth, but I'm reminded of the Steven Stayner kidnapping. His brother turned out to be a serial killer, and you have to wonder how much affect his brother's kidnapping had on his stability. So because of one kidnapping so many lives are ruined.

 

 

 

I never realized Steven and Cary Stayner were brothers. I know both of those stories but never connected them as related...how could i have missed that? But you're right- the whole topic is so complicated- so many layers of sadness and illness and hurt. I read the link on Cary that you posted- he felt neglected while his parents mourned his brother. I've heard that from people who had a sibling die of cancer, etc...sometimes it makes the left behind sibling strong, determined, and a go-getter, and other times it breaks a person. Who knows how it might affect a kid? Anyway, thanks for the links and the interesting post.

[Meriwether]

 

Didn't say that. I clarified what I meant upthread.

 

Yes, you went from conservative to rural, small town.

[justamouse]

Yes, you went from conservative to rural, small town.

 

Those small town rural folk who grow all the organic veggies, have foodshed alliance dinners and run the farmer's market... :leaving:

[Guest inoubliable]

Yes, you went from conservative to rural, small town.

 

No. I clarified what I was trying to say. I didn't mean "conservative" in a political way.

 

What else do you want from me??

[Guest inoubliable]

 

Those small town rural folk who grow all the organic veggies, have foodshed alliance dinners and run the farmer's market... :leaving:

 

What the h3ll is that supposed to mean??

[Guest inoubliable]

ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

 

Mission for discussion failed!

 

ABORT!

[Meriwether]

 

I do understand now that you meant conservative in a religious or old-fashioned sort of way. But I'm not surprised people took it the way they did - and don't be surprised if someone also complains about the "small town" comment.

 

Ha! That would be me. :laugh: I grew up in a small town and have lived rurally most of my life. I dislike blanket statements about small towns, especially if they are negative.

[Izzy]

I'm really not understanding all of the attacks. So she's in a small conservative town and these people are making remarks. My parents live in Mississippi so I get it. That really happens. What I don't get is the jump between reading KK's comment to I'm conservative so KK called me this type of person?

 

I live in a large liberal city. I'm pretty liberal but don't particularly care for Planned Parenthood. Do most liberals? Yes. Does most of my city? Yes. I'm 100% okay with someone being in a large liberal city and hearing pro-PP comments and attributing it to being in a large liberal city. No big deal. I don't take offense and think that person is calling me pro-PP just because I'm a liberal or live in a big city.

 

This is just bizarre to me.

[Izzy]

 

 

Those small town rural folk who grow all the organic veggies, have foodshed alliance dinners and run the farmer's market... :leaving:

 

Huh? I live in a big city where tons of people grow organic veggies and we have plenty of farmer's markets.

 

I'm so confused right now.

[Izzy]

ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

 

Mission for discussion failed!

 

ABORT!

 

ROFL!! What just happened? I'm so confuzzled right now. lol

[gardenmom5]

Have you never seen me post about my son? Yeah never dealt with anyone with serious mental issues, that's rather amusing.

and yet, you still state that mental health issues aren't an excuse for highly irrational behavior? I was responding to what you said about mental health issues not being an excuse.

[unsinkable]

I'm really not understanding all of the attacks. So she's in a small conservative town and these people are making remarks. My parents live in Mississippi so I get it. That really happens. What I don't get is the jump between reading KK's comment to I'm conservative so KK called me this type of person?

 

I live in a large liberal city. I'm pretty liberal but don't particularly care for Planned Parenthood. Do most liberals? Yes. Does most of my city? Yes. I'm 100% okay with someone being in a large liberal city and hearing pro-PP comments and attributing it to being in a large liberal city. No big deal. I don't take offense and think that person is calling me pro-PP just because I'm a liberal or live in a big city.

 

This is just bizarre to me.

 

 

The following is a joke:

 

I can only decide if you are pro-PP once I know if you are a Girl Scout or not.

[gardenmom5]

Someone up thread mentioned feeling sadness when bin Laden was killed, too. That's how I felt, too. Not because I thought he was a great man (I don't think he was) but because I thought it was horrific to see and hear people glorying in the death of another human. Again, the whole situation was sad.

I was sad he was such a person who needed to be stopped by such extreme measures. but sometimes, it has to be done.

[justamouse]

What the h3ll is that supposed to mean??

 

 

Look, DUMB people said that, period.

 

Not conservatives.

 

Not small town rural folk.

 

Not religious folk.

 

Not old fashioned.

 

Not conservative, old fashioned, religious, rural folk. (see what I mean?)

 

Just plain old ignorant people. Period.

 

Your political leanings were showing with every group you mentioned.

[swellmomma]

and yet, you still state that mental health issues aren't an excuse for highly irrational behavior? I was responding to what you said about mental health issues not being an excuse.

 

And your point is what? I do not believe irrational behaviours should be excused just because of mental illness. Mental illness may explain them, but should not allow the person off the hook. I feel the same way about any mental illness, and if my own son grew up to do such a heinous act I would certainly hope they would stop him at all costs from harming another even if that meant they had to kill him.

[Izzy]

 

 

 

The following is a joke:

 

I can only decide if you are pro-PP once I know if you are a Girl Scout or not.

 

lol! I don't have any girls and I was never interested in Girl Scouts as a kid. Now if I had girls they would have to be Girl Scouts just for the yummy cookies!

[SKL]

Someone up thread mentioned feeling sadness when bin Laden was killed, too. That's how I felt, too. Not because I thought he was a great man (I don't think he was) but because I thought it was horrific to see and hear people glorying in the death of another human. ...

 

 

I honestly think the main reason many Americans were celebrating so loudly over Osama's death was because it was likely to give a political boost to a certain candidate. I mean, yes, we were all glad that Osama was put out of commission (especially since he'd already been condemned and we'd been trying to off him for decades), but that reaction was way over the top and it also made me sad. And I'm no Osama fan whatsoever.

 

So I don't think this recent incident is comparable to Osama at all.

[Guest inoubliable]

Look, DUMB people said that, period.

 

Not conservatives.

 

Not small town rural folk.

 

Not religious folk.

 

Not old fashioned.

 

Not conservative, old fashioned, religious, rural folk. (see what I mean?)

 

Just plain old ignorant people. Period.

 

Your political leanings were showing with every group you mentioned.

 

Seriously? That was my point from the very beginning. Why are there ignorant @sshole people out there saying such horribly violent things? That was it. The entire point of my post.

 

I didn't mention religious or old-fashioned people. I said "conservative". I meant it in a COMPLETELY different way than it was taken. I don't know how else to break that down for you. It wasn't political. I have no idea why you keep going on about it. It was just the first word that came to mind about my town. Right up there with "rural" and "small". Good grief. How you got my political leanings out of some words describing my town is beyond me. It is entirely factual that my town is conservative in almost every aspect. It is rural. And it is small.

 

Right, then. So. Not political. Can we move on now?

[hillfarm]

Look, DUMB people said that, period.

 

Not conservatives.

 

Not small town rural folk.

 

Not religious folk.

 

Not old fashioned.

 

Not conservative, old fashioned, religious, rural folk. (see what I mean?)

 

Just plain old ignorant people. Period.

 

Your political leanings were showing with every group you mentioned.

 

So what? She has every right to lean which ever way she wants. That still doesn't change her original message, that many people were mouthing off in an alarming way over this incident.

 

I have more leanings than 4 people in a game of Twister. And even more opinions and concerns. That doesn't automatically make my concerns invalid. Let's stay on track here, shall we?

[justamouse]

Seriously? That was my point from the very beginning. Why are there ignorant @sshole people out there saying such horribly violent things? That was it. The entire point of my post.

 

I didn't mention religious or old-fashioned people. I said "conservative". I meant it in a COMPLETELY different way than it was taken. I don't know how else to break that down for you. It wasn't political. I have no idea why you keep going on about it. It was just the first word that came to mind about my town. Right up there with "rural" and "small". Good grief. How you got my political leanings out of some words describing my town is beyond me. It is entirely factual that my town is conservative in almost every aspect. It is rural. And it is small.

 

Right, then. So. Not political. Can we move on now?

 

You made it political when you called it conservative, and even IF you meant conservative in a non political way, it was still offensive to all of us who would classify as conservative in any way, or rural and small town. I honestly don't understand why you don't get that? You just showed your true feelings and we called you out of it. You made a Freudian slip.

 

And, I'm willing to bet that these people are just happy that the kid is safe, that if they thought about their reactions at all, they'd realize that they weren't jubilant about the fact that the man was killed, they're just overjoyed that the child is safe. Because let's face it, that was a miracle that he wasn't killed and many of us were fearful of the worst outcome.

[Jenny in Florida]

Big difference between being glad he can no longer harm another and having joy. Do not make presumptions AND I never even posted in the Original threads so what are you even referring to?

 

I apologize. I had you mixed up with clarkacademy, whose avatar has similar coloring and who used wording in her posts in that thread that yours here seemed to me to echo. I sincerely apologize for the mistake.

 

Being glad someone is dead still sounds like "joy" to me.

[MommaOfalotta]

Haven't read the responses and I haven't read the news story so Im going off of my gut reaction to hearing the news. I am sad that it had to come to this.. two are dead. Death is always sad. However, I said before that if the only way to get that child out safely was to kill the man then they needed to get on it. I honestly did not think the boy would survive the encounter. I thought this would be another situation of victim and murderer both dead (which is so often the case, it seems.)

 

Im assuming that the only way to rescue the boy safely was to take this man out. I dont think they would kill this guy if they were able to save the child and safely apprehend the man. So with that being said, I applaud law enforcement for making the decision to save the little boy. That man gave up any obligation that authorities had to keep him safe when he murdered the bus driver and abducted the poor little guy.

 

Is it unfortunate? Yes. Is it sad? Yes. The whole situation is. Am I glad he's dead? If it means the little boy is safe and home with his parents instead of the alternative, then yes.

[SKL]

Anyhoo. The OP was just trying to understand why she's hearing a lot of stuff locally that others on the board are not hearing / not seeing. Just thinking out loud about what characteristics might be present in her town that make those comments more likely to be made in her hearing than in mine. I do not think there is anything wrong with that.

 

We political Conservatives to NOT own the word "conservative."

 

I think this whole thread is about compassion and understanding. Let's all show we're capable of some.