Jump to content

Menu

SOCIAL GROUP: The Dark Side for REFORMED Christians


Heather in Neverland
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok, so until the real social groups get back up and running, we can use this thread to talk about all things reformed.

 

Feel free to bring up anything that is on your mind and heart.

 

For me, a question I have is: do you go to a church you love? And related to that, would you go to a church whose doctrine you didn't agree with if it was the only church available? Or would you rather worship at home?

 

My situation is this: I live on a fairly small island with a limited number of churches ALL of which are heavily charismatic and heavily prosperity gospel. Seriously. Even the Catholic Church here is charismatic.

 

Dh and I are definitely not charismatic and think the prosperity gospel is an abomination. But our only other choice is to not go to church at all and just worship at home.

 

WWYD?

 

Feel free to give an opinion or ask a different question of your own. Or whatever. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 215
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think I'd worship at home. Maybe your family can find some sermons online to listen to and you could sing some hymns or something. Is there a way you could be involved in a church that way?

 

For us were not completely happy with our church at the moment. It seems to be going in a direction we don't fully agree with. Problem is there isn't a closer church to us in the same denomination. We could go to a different denomination but our heritage is tied so much into our church that I feel we'd be giving up a piece of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the ONLY church available was teaching health/wealth gospel, then it doesn't fall into cosideration at all from a reformed perspective. There would be NO teaching. If there were other churches, even 1 ,that were armenian but taught the bible (conditions: once saved, always saved; triune god; bible is absolute; sola fide; etc), that could be worked around with teaching at home. Obviously, you wouldn't be able to join. Also, you need the fellowship. We drive an hour to go to church so we can be with like-minded people and hear good teaching. Some other friends, go farther (think 2 hours) but only go two times a month. This has worked out well for them, and the reformed church they attend has embraced them. The rest of the month, they home-church. It's not their ideal, but it works. Church at home, in my opion, would be a last option, but it could also be the beginning of something for your little island town.

 

One thing we do in the winter, when we miss a good bit, is have the sermons sent to us. This hepls our family. Also, we have discovered several really good reformed pastors on sermonaudio that can fill this gap.

 

Another thing, ministry opportunities happen everywhere, not just in the church, so that would be something to seek out.

 

As far as loving our church - well this is the first time in 15 years that I can answer YES. We moved here almost 4 years ago and had a hard time finding Reformed AND Evangelical minded (this is important to us after having been several places that weren't). So, we feel very blessed. Prior to that, we kept in touch with several churches over the US that we tend to like the people/pastor and they, over time, have become our "extended-family". I have also found that my best friends/mentors have come from other places. One in TX, one in AL, one in ID, and I'm in MO. So, pretty spread out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Churchless here. We have tried a few churches over the past years that we had to drive over an hour to, and found that the distance prevented any true fellowship. All we were really getting out of it was the sermon, and we can get that at home via internet. We have a ton of churches all around us, but every single one, even the Presbyterian ones, are Arminian and liberal, if not charismatic. We would rather not go at all than attend where we do not believe the Bible is being preached. Thankfully, we have retained a few good friends from some of our former churches, who we are still in contact with. It would be such a blessing to have a church family, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do have a church we love. We're in the OPC and the teaching is solid and fellowship sweet. We drive about 30 minutes (which is average drive for here).

 

I don't know what we'd do if we lived somewhere with no good choices for worship. We definitely believe in the importance of gathering with the saints for worship and hearing from God during that time. Are there no other non-prosperity gospel people in your school? Where do they church? It's a Christian school for missionaries, right?

 

Our church's sermons are available on Sermon Audio.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We just moved here 4 months ago and have fallen in love with the church we are attending. It's Reformed Episcopal/ Anglican Confession, and it is just beautiful! The irony is that we have been attending PCAs for the last 14 years and now live in the "hotbed" of the PCA (near it's flagship seminary), and we could not find a single PCA congregation where we felt at home.

 

Worshipping with a local body of believers is very important to us, so we would work very hard to find a church where we could worship. That said, we have been in the situation where we joined a church that we thought would be a great place for us to worship, serve, and grow and later realized that it was a HUGE mistake and now had a conflict about upholding our membership vows or leaving. We have not joined the church we are currently attending simply because we want to take it slowly so we are not faced with a similar circumstance here. (I don't forsee a problem here, but then again I did not forsee in at the other two congregations we had a problem at previously.)

 

Because I know that I am very susceptible to pride, I would be wary of worshipping at home where there was not someone else to keep me in check in my reading and studying of the Scriptures. (Besides my husband who loves me and wants to see me happy.) Dh and I discussed what we would do if we ever felt like we were in a place where there were no existing congregations where we could join and decided that we would only do so if there were at least one other (preferably two other) families/ individuals who would join us so that we could be kept honest in our confession, learning, and worship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I attended a Presbyterian church (PCA) for 25 years and we made the decision to leave when the preaching became unbiblical. For the past 2.5 years we have attended a Missionary Baptist church where we are the only non-African Americans. It is a very different worship experience. The PCA is often referred to as the "frozen chosen" and the Missionary Baptist church we go to has a Charismatic bent.

 

Pros for the MB church: the kids can take communion, usher, sing in the choir.

 

Cons: very loud, lots of screaming, people run around and fall on the floor.

 

I actually quit attending over a year ago because the loudness and the chaos would trigger panic attacks. It got where I just could not relax and worship. My dh checked into at least 25 other churches near us and had issues with all the others, so finding another church just doesn't seem doable. I don't want to isolate our boys too much by having family church at home.

 

Our solution for now will be to attend the Wednesday night service together as a family and then I'll listen to a service on the radio on Sundays. Not an ideal solution.

 

As far as your situation goes, it sounds like it might be too difficult for you to sit under that teaching week in and week out. I'd probably opt for church at home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope nobody minds if I post so I can get the star by the thread title so I don't have to keep trying to find the last post I read. Thanks.

You can still get to the first unread post even if you don't post in the thread by clicking on the black dot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've been PCA for the past 13 years until last year. I grew up Baptist and attended a charismatic church in college. To answer the op's question. Prosperity gospel bothers me, but charismatic is less bothersome. We worshipped at home when we lived in Asia after our ex-pat group took issue with my husbands reformed slant sermons (he's an ordained minister although no longer PCA.) They were mostly Baptist. We attended a PCA church here, but we left after some unfriendly encounters by some very proud elders. I think pride is a risk in highly liturgical settings where the view is that something has to be done just the way they prescribe it for it to be biblical. My kids were asking a question during communion, and we were questioned whether or not our kids were taking communion in the fear of the Lord by a person in leadership with no children. We are also in a transition where we feel women should have more freedom in the church. Currently we attend a mega chuch. I don't agree with everything, but it's a compromise for now. It's been a rough year because I have not found any friends in either setting. Not that church is about friends, but a byproduct is fellowship among believers. I hope you are able to find something or start something that fits your family's need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church). Until about 4 years ago we had an awesome pastor who was really strong on Reformed Theology and he taught our church a lot. We had a lot of good doctrine, I learned so much from this man, it was amazing. He brought our church through separation from the PCUSA (our family wasn't attending at that time), joining the EPC and did so much for our church. Well, while he had some amazing strengths, he had some pretty devestating weaknesses and 4 years ago he confessed to an affair, amongst other things, resigned his position, resigned his ordination, blah, blah, blah. It was a horrible time in our church, we weren't really sure we were going to make it. But we did. And we got a wonderful new pastor. He is a wonderful man, he is exactly what our church needs. However, he is not very strongly Reformed. At all. But, we do love our church and will continue to attend. And continue to remind people of the Doctrines of Grace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I jump in here even if I'm not totally Reformed? We attend a Calvary Chapel that teaches through the bible verse by verse, but I think I lean a bit to the Reformed side and I loved to here more about it. Your situation sounds tough. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. Do you know any other families who woul have a similar view that you could start a home church with?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not Reformed here, but I have a suggestion; I hope that's OK. I promise to give objective advice. :D What if you and your family took a little time off of church attendance and in it's place study the topic of "going to church?" You could tackle it like any important subject: read the words of the "greats" on the subject, what did they say about why we go to church, what does the Bible say about why we go to church, were there "greats" in your tradition who didn't have a church of their persuasion, if so what did they do? It might be fun to study the act of going to church, and you might also get a better picture of why Christians do it and maybe the result will help you with deciding what venue would be best in your situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks ladies for all the suggestions. We are still praying about it. Right now we watch sermons online (thank goodness for technology). This area of Asia is absolutely saturated with a charismatic/prosperity gospel way of worshipping. Because the population is heavily Chinese, and because the Chinese here already accept "spirits" as part of life, they focus solely on the Holy Spirit and fairly well ignore the other two members of the trinity! Also, "prosperity" is a mainstay in their culture, especially right now as Chinese New Year approaches. All they talk about is prosperity and how to get it. So it is natural that a doctrine that appeals to their already-held beliefs of spirits and prosperity would be easily assimilated.

 

Dh and I are quite firmly cessationists and we don't believe in women pastors (also a big issue here). So going to those churches is not possible. But it is hard.

 

My next related question is: do you ever feel like solid doctrine in churches is becoming harder and harder to find? Even the people I work with who don't like the churches here just shrug their shoulders at the whole thing and go to the nearest church. They think my dh and I are overly concerned with doctrinal correctness and should just go to any church as long as we go. But our opinion is that DOCTRINE MATTERS. But it seems so many churches are shying away from standing for truth.

 

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe doctrine matters as long as it doesn't become an idol for lack of a better word. Doctrines are made by man. Humans who don't have the whole picture. I am Reformed for the most part, but I also believe those who are native to different cultures than the Europeon model of church are not neccessarily wrong. God is bigger than my understanding, and I personally make allowances for human frailty. I personally am not a cessationist, but it's not my main focus. I haven't found a church yet that fit all of my understanding of scripture and doctrine and put it into practice. If you have very set in stone views in a very different cultural region, you may have to start your own home church for your flavor of doctrine. We lived in Ch!na; I completely understand what you are saying about your options in that region of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My next related question is: do you ever feel like solid doctrine in churches is becoming harder and harder to find? Even the people I work with who don't like the churches here just shrug their shoulders at the whole thing and go to the nearest church. They think my dh and I are overly concerned with doctrinal correctness and should just go to any church as long as we go. But our opinion is that DOCTRINE MATTERS. But it seems so many churches are shying away from standing for truth.

I think this is true in many churches, but not all. There are still many excellent churches. ;) I would not be ok with a prosperity gospel church at all, so I get what you are saying. It is probably even harder for you because of where you live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, a question I have is: do you go to a church you love? And related to that, would you go to a church whose doctrine you didn't agree with if it was the only church available? Or would you rather worship at home?

 

My situation is this: I live on a fairly small island with a limited number of churches ALL of which are heavily charismatic and heavily prosperity gospel. Seriously. Even the Catholic Church here is charismatic.

 

Dh and I are definitely not charismatic and think the prosperity gospel is an abomination. But our only other choice is to not go to church at all and just worship at home.

 

WWYD?

 

Feel free to give an opinion or ask a different question of your own. Or whatever. :)

 

We are members of a PCA church. For the most part, we agree doctrinally with church doctrine. I could and have worshiped with believers of other Christian denominations. In fact, I was raised more "Baptist" than anything else. But I would keep my family home rather than go to a church that taught prosperity gospel. I'd order recorded sermons, or stream them off the internet and set up a special schedule for Sunday worship at home. You are in a difficult spot, but I'd stay home. Perhaps there are others would join you in your home?

 

As for my church, I do really like the pastor and his family, as well as the other church members/families. They are down to earth, honest, and full of life. I do LOVE the youth at our church and see they are very much in love with their Creator and Savior. Our music is a mix of hymns and contemporary music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My next related question is: do you ever feel like solid doctrine in churches is becoming harder and harder to find? Even the people I work with who don't like the churches here just shrug their shoulders at the whole thing and go to the nearest church. They think my dh and I are overly concerned with doctrinal correctness and should just go to any church as long as we go. But our opinion is that DOCTRINE MATTERS. But it seems so many churches are shying away from standing for truth.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Yes, doctrine DOES matter. You are right to care and make careful choices based on what scripture teaches. Yes, there does seem to be a trend away from taking the Bible seriously. What an empty, useless way to spend a day - at "church" where no one really stands firmly on the truth of the Bible. I don't want to join a "feel good" club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are reformed and love our church. We agree that doctrine matters, and we would worship at home in your situation. Not only would we not want to worship in a manner we did not agree with (speaking specifically about the examples you gave), we also would not want our children being confused by teachings that did not align with our beliefs.

 

I think it would be exhausting to try to counter all that they would be learning during the services.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in. We're reformed Baptist. Right now we're meeting in a small house church. It's small but we have high hopes for it. We're pretty picky about where we go to church. If we didn't feel like a church taught truth we would not go there. Even if we could pick through what wasn't true our kids probably wouldn't be able to. I don't want to take them somewhere truth should be taught and have them hear false teaching.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yes, doctrine DOES matter. You are right to care and make careful choices based on what scripture teaches. Yes, there does seem to be a trend away from taking the Bible seriously. What an empty, useless way to spend a day - at "church" where no one really stands firmly on the truth of the Bible. I don't want to join a "feel good" club.

We agree that doctrine matters, and we would worship at home in your situation. Not only would we not want to worship in a manner we did not agree with (speaking specifically about the examples you gave), we also would not want our children being confused by teachings that did not align with our beliefs.

 

I think it would be exhausting to try to counter all that they would be learning during the services.

We're pretty picky about where we go to church. If we didn't feel like a church taught truth we would not go there. Even if we could pick through what wasn't true our kids probably wouldn't be able to. I don't want to take them somewhere truth should be taught and have them hear false teaching.

 

This is EXACTLY how we feel and why we have been worshipping at home. I miss being part of a fellowship terribly (although we do get quite a bit working at a christian school). And then there are all of those who try to make us feel guilty for not "going to church". But i honestly don't want to spend Sunday afternoon undoing much of what my kids were taught on Sunday morning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to interrupt, but what exactly do reformed Christians believe.

 

I don't know if I am one or not! :leaving:

 

"Reformed" is a term that is used to describe, on a larger scale, those that hold to the doctrines of grace... otherwise known as Calvinism: http://www.gotquesti...s-of-grace.html

 

Calvinism is primarily concerned with soteriology.

 

"Reformed" on a more narrow scale refers to those who follow all or most of Reformed Theology: http://www.gotquesti...d-theology.html

 

So you can have reformed baptists (which is what we are) who believe in the doctrines of grace but don't do infant baptism (we are also dispensational whereas strict reformed theology is covenantal).

 

What those of the reformed persuasion have in common typically are salvation by grace alone, the authority and sufficiency of Scripture, and complete sovereignty of God.

 

HTH!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are in a similar situation herre in China. We go to a church that has many different types of beliefs, but, for the most part, is more fundamentalist than we are. While we like a lot of the people at the church and enjoy the fellowship, we also have to "undo" some of the things our daughter hears at the church. While the church isn't really into the prosperity gospel so much, there is a clearly taught idea that, if you are "right" with God, he will shower blessings on you, and, that if you are facing major struggles, you clearly have something wrong spiritually. I wouldn't want to attend a church that focused solely on the Holy Spirit, but I feel our church now does not focus enough on things of the Spirit. It borders on being a church that focuses on works more than grace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would probably home church in your situation because the church situation you are describing would be hard on a weekly basis. Since you already seem familiar with the local churches I would probably(if not done at your school) attend a service for special days like Easter and Christmas. That is more because I enjoy the social element of group worship. If you are uncomfortable don't. Also good family discussion about what we don't agree with in a new church can be fascinating -- my children from a young age have spotted amazing things when sevices are discussed. They have been listening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prayer request...

 

After our discussion here, I was talking to another couple from work whom I know are also reformed. In fact, to my knowledge, there are 3 families at my school including ours that are reformed.

 

Anyways, two things came out of the conversation:

 

-Rumor has it a small reformed church has started up on the other side of the island, about 40 minutes from here. So we are going to call and talk to the pastor and then possibly go check it out together.

 

-We also discussed the possibility of starting a home church with our three families.

 

Please pray that one of these options works out. I feel very encouraged at the possibilities!!!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This sounds great, Heather. Praying that God will lead you to the best solution for your family.

 

Prayer request...

 

After our discussion here, I was talking to another couple from work whom I know are also reformed. In fact, to my knowledge, there are 3 families at my school including ours that are reformed.

 

Anyways, two things came out of the conversation:

 

-Rumor has it a small reformed church has started up on the other side of the island, about 40 minutes from here. So we are going to call and talk to the pastor and then possibly go check it out together.

 

-We also discussed the possibility of starting a home church with our three families.

 

Please pray that one of these options works out. I feel very encouraged at the possibilities!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heather, I'm so glad you've had some possibilities open up! I'll be praying that one (or maybe a combination) works out for your family and the other families you mentioned.

 

As to your question: yes, doctrine matters. A great deal. It is why my dh and I had struggles with a couple of churches we had joined in the past. On paper, their doctrine was sound. In one-on-one discussions with leadership, their doctrine was sound. From the pulpit, the doctrine was sound (for the most part.... one church tended to softball the doctrine from the pulpit when a new pastor took over, so that was a HUGE problem for us). However, both of these churches suffered in their praxis of their stated belief; what they said they believed and what they did didn't always match in our opinion. This is why we will never rush into church membership again- because while we think membership and dedication to a local body of believers is extremely important, we want to be more intimate with a congregation's doctrinal beliefs through their preaching, teaching, and practice before making a promise to uphold that church's purity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do any of you lovely lady have any book suggestions? When we get our tax refund I want to get myself a few to read. I'm thinking non fiction having to do with parenting, homeschooling, faith, or any combination of. What have you read lately that has inspired you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

-Rumor has it a small reformed church has started up on the other side of the island, about 40 minutes from here. So we are going to call and talk to the pastor and then possibly go check it out together.

 

-We also discussed the possibility of starting a home church with our three families.

 

Please pray that one of these options works out. I feel very encouraged at the possibilities!!!

 

That is wonderful! I will pray for something fruitful to come from this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do any of you lovely lady have any book suggestions? When we get our tax refund I want to get myself a few to read. I'm thinking non fiction having to do with parenting, homeschooling, faith, or any combination of. What have you read lately that has inspired you?

 

 

 

Shepherding a Child's Heart by Ted Tripp

 

Pleasing People by Lou Priolo

 

The Fear of God: A Forgotten Doctrine by Arnold L. Frank

 

Don't Make Me Count to Three by Ginger Plowman

 

Creative Counterpart by Linda Dillow

 

The Excellent Wife: A Biblical Perspective by Martha Peace

 

 

 

Other favorites:

 

Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics by Liping Ma

 

Uncovering the Logic of English by Denise Eide

 

The Well-Trained Mind by SWB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do have a church we love. We're in the OPC and the teaching is solid and fellowship sweet. We drive about 30 minutes (which is average drive for here).

 

I don't know what we'd do if we lived somewhere with no good choices for worship. We definitely believe in the importance of gathering with the saints for worship and hearing from God during that time. Are there no other non-prosperity gospel people in your school? Where do they church? It's a Christian school for missionaries, right?

 

Our church's sermons are available on Sermon Audio.

 

We are also OPC. We helped plant our church in our area. We drive about 30 minutes as well and have driven further to church before. www.wolfriverchurch.org

 

I just want you to know that you are in my prayers Heather.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Praying something comes of your housechurch or the one that's 40 minutes away.

 

I would lean towards staying at home and listening to online sermons as a family in that case (Mars Hill, etc), but I'm sure DH would rather go to a church that was the least objectionable and discuss at home what we disagree with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do any of you lovely lady have any book suggestions? When we get our tax refund I want to get myself a few to read. I'm thinking non fiction having to do with parenting, homeschooling, faith, or any combination of. What have you read lately that has inspired you?

 

 

Favorite parenting book: Family Driven Faith: Doing What it Takes to Raise Sons and Daughters Who Walk with God by Voddie Bauchum

 

Homeschooling: The Well-Trained Mind of course!

 

Faith: Oh goodness. There are lots of them. Here are a few really great ones I have read recently...

Desiring God by John Piper

The Hole in our Holiness by Kevin DeYoung

The Holiness of God by RC Sproul

How Should We Then Live by Francis Shaeffer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Favorite parenting book: Family Driven Faith: Doing What it Takes to Raise Sons and Daughters Who Walk with God by Voddie Bauchum

 

Homeschooling: The Well-Trained Mind of course!

 

Faith: Oh goodness. There are lots of them. Here are a few really great ones I have read recently...

Desiring God by John Piper

The Hole in our Holiness by Kevin DeYoung

The Holiness of God by RC Sproul

How Should We Then Live by Francis Shaeffer

 

Thanks! I love Voddie, and we actually own that book but I haven't read it. ;)

Which one of the bottom four is your favorite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: I spoke with an elder from the church today and here is what I know:

 

Service is Sunday at 9:30

No female pastors

Expository preaching

Not charismatic

Reformed doctrine

About 10 families or so (around 40-50 people)

FIC (family integrated church)

 

This man is actually the parent of two students at my school and he is going to meet us at the school on Sunday so we can follow him (driving directions here are pretty dicey!).

 

I am cautiously optimistic. All those answers were just what we wanted to hear. This MIGHT be the one!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do any of you lovely lady have any book suggestions? When we get our tax refund I want to get myself a few to read. I'm thinking non fiction having to do with parenting, homeschooling, faith, or any combination of. What have you read lately that has inspired you?

 

 

"The Cross Centered Life" by CJ Mahaney

"The Valley of Vision" (collection of Puritan prayers) edited by A.G. Bennett (this I've had for a long time, but return to it over and over!)

I haven't gotten this yet, but I have "The Complete Works of E.M. Bounds on Prayer" on my wish list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Amazon book wishlist is getting long. ;) I will have to come back and make you ladies help me choose.

Is anyone else memorizing or studying any particular part of scripture? I'm joining in with Ann Voskamp memorizing Romans 1,8,and 12. I found some online podcast from John MacArthur about Romans that I started listening to this week. I think John Piper has a Romans study too that I might check out next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...