In the Rain Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Okay, I called my agent. He said it would be "detrimental" for me to file another claim at this point since I just had 2 claims. One wasn't even our fault. It was hail damage. Before that we hadn't had any claim in 7 years. My co leader also called her insurance. They told her that the damage wasn't covered. So there it is. I guess I'll be paying myself or living with the damage. If I push her she might pay, but I guess that wouldn't be fair, since its my vehicle. But it makes me so angry to think about because she always thinks her way is better and she wanted the stupid car turned around. I would have been happy to let the scouts carry their junk from where it was. It wasn't that far, and they are middle schoolers. It would have been no big deal. Lesson learned. I'm sorry. That stinks. I would still ask her to cover the deductible. Even if you don't file a claim, she can pay what your deductible would have been, toward the cost of repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 See I assumed most of the time it worked that way. It's like if you rent a car, your own insurance typically covers you. Well I'll only say that if "I" did that I'd pay for it. It's hard to make other people take responsibility though. She was driving your car and damaged it. She is responsible for restoring the car to its previous condition. Yes you should have said no. But that does not make her less liable for damaging your car against a tree. Stay on her. Her insurance may of may not cover it. Most people do not carry coverage that extends to other people's cars. If you go through your insurance company, they will go after her for the damages they pay out if they deem it worth their time. Your rates will likely already by rising because of the 2 claims, that is something you just have to deal with. They will usually give you some consideration for things that are not your fault. I agree with these posts. I would pursue this. She was the one who wrecked your car. Whether or not her insurance will cover it should not be an indicator of responsibility for the cost of repairs. Wow, what a nightmare :( I'm sorry to hear you are dealing with this, and that you are going to be out substantial money. I think if I had been the one who did the damage, I would feel personally responsible and would pay for it. There may not be a legal obligation to do so, but it would seem like the right thing to do. Of course I probably will never want to drive someone's car after reading this, because that would probably be the time I'd have an accident. Just because the friend's insurance won't cover it does not mean that she doesn't have a legal obligation to pay for the damage. You may want to submit the question to a lawyer in your area - you may be able to do so free on the web. You gave her permission to turn your car around, not to damage it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hana Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just because the friend's insurance won't cover it does not mean that she doesn't have a legal obligation to pay for the damage. You may want to submit the question to a lawyer in your area - you may be able to do so free on the web. You gave her permission to turn your car around, not to damage it. This. The "friend" is being rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Even though it was a favor I didn't really want? I didn't want to back the car, she wanted it so it would be easier to unpack. I know my limits and I would have just left the car where it was. She was the one who wanted it turned around. With respect, because I know this is awkward for you..... It was a fairly passive/aggressive statement to her. You weren't clear about your boundaries and preferences. As a result, your truck got damaged. Coming back to add that I think she's handling it poorly, also. I think, it's possible you need help being assertive, at least in this circumstance. Edited October 10, 2012 by Joanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeciecup Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 With respect, because I know this is awkward for you..... It was a fairly passive/aggressive statement to her. You weren't clear about your boundaries and preferences. As a result, your truck got damaged. Coming back to add that I think she's handling it poorly, also. I think, it's possible you need help being assertive, at least in this circumstance. I didn't say it to her. I just told her I couldn't back it in there and told she could move it if she wanted to. She had a lot of experience moving larger vehicles than that in all sorts of situations, so I thought she could handle even though I couldn't. She obviously thought she could do it as well or she wouldn't have tried. After it was done she didn't take credit for the accident, she blamed it on me being short so she couldn't see the tree in the rear view. She apologized but she did say several times it was the fault of the poorly positioned mirror. I don't know why she didn't adjust the mirror. I told her to adjust the seat, but I didn't mention the mirror. She even said she adjusted the seat like I said but didn't adjust the mirror, as if it was my fault for not telling her to adjust the mirror. I wasn't being passive aggressive to her or unassertive. I truly thought she could do what I couldn't because she had past experience. I wouldn't have moved the vehicle myself, but I let her do it because she wanted it moved and thought she could do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labst60 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I wouldn't be SURE that her insurance didn't cover it.... It seems convenient, dont you think, that she says her insurance doesn't cover it and now she thinks she is completely off the hook. You would think her response would be - "Sorry, my insurance won't cover it - what will I owe you for your deductible or can we get an OOP estimate". I may be jaded - but I wouldn't be surprised if she never actually called her agent. Wonder if there is some way your agent can help you verify that info without you actually having to file a claim...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I wouldn't be SURE that her insurance didn't cover it.... It seems convenient, dont you think, that she says her insurance doesn't cover it and now she thinks she is completely off the hook. You would think her response would be - "Sorry, my insurance won't cover it - what will I owe you for your deductible or can we get an OOP estimate". I may be jaded - but I wouldn't be surprised if she never actually called her agent. Wonder if there is some way your agent can help you verify that info without you actually having to file a claim...??? I was wondering the same thing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 In how many ways is she breaking her girl scout promise? :glare: Nothing is the mirror's fault. Mirrors are inanimate objects. :glare::glare: Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If your tree falls on my car, it is considered an act of God. You do not pay unless I have notified you, in a manner that can be proven, that the tree is dangerous/diseased. The insurance company sees it as an act of God. The law in my area does not. I have more than one friend who has had to pay for things damaged by their trees. The insurance company is not the law. The person responsible for the damage should make it right again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 In how many ways is she breaking her girl scout promise? :glare: Nothing is the mirror's fault. Mirrors are inanimate objects. :glare::glare: :lol: so true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I tend to try to avoid confrontation while still getting the outcome that I see as fair. In this situation, I would let her know what your deductible is with the assumption that she'll be paying it. I would follow up by telling her that you understand that finances may be tight, so you'd be willing to let her pay over the course of 2 months. I would say this all with the total assumption that she planned on paying it all along. I'd end it by asking her how she wants to pay for it, all at once or $__ now, $___ Nov 10th? Don't ask her if she's going to cover the expense, speak always as if she definitely will. I would not expect her to pay more than your deductible, though I understand why you don't plan on filing. If she refuses to pay anything, I might try to small claims court it, but I'm not sure if you have legal ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The insurance company sees it as an act of God. The law in my area does not. I have more than one friend who has had to pay for things damaged by their trees. The insurance company is not the law. The person responsible for the damage should make it right again. This must vary by region. Around here, if my tree falls on a neighbor's house, their insurance repairs the house. If my tree was dead, I'm at fault, but if a healthy tree topples it's an act of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyrobynne Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Even if she thought that her insurance would cover it, she still would have had to pay HER deductible. Since at one point, at least, she agreed to get it fixed via her insurance (in theory), if she'll be upfront and tell you what her deductible is, I'd try to see if she'd pay that much (or that much split in half)toward your getting it fixed without filing a claim on your insurance. I think hoping that she'd pay more than the deductible is asking too much, but if you came to her and said, "Hey, the quote at the body shop is X thousand dollars. I really need you to take some responsibility and help me cover the cost of what the deductible would have been," that would make it clear that you are paying lots, she shouldn't blame the inanimate mirror, and like the above poster mentioned, as a Girl Scout leader, it's the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Small Claims Court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeFe Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ugh! Hindsight is 20/20 and that is frustrating! I think that it would have been best for you to move it or refuse to have it moved, knowing that it was important for you not to make any insurance claims. But since she took the responsibility to move it, favor or not, I think she's responsible too. It's unfortunate and awkward for both you. It's not her fault that you are in a situation where you don't want to make a claim but even so you'd have a deductible and she's the one that hit the tree - and then used the mirror excuse. I mean, you'd think she would have moved the mirror to insure she was doing all she could to prevent an accident. I would get an estimate and ask her to split it with you. But she may refuse and then you're stuck with the bill. Then I would tell her she's not a very good girl scout (or backer-upper)! I hope you guys can resolve this. It stinks that this happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I am going to be blunt. You gave her the keys and permission to try to back your van into a difficult spot. It is your van and you gave permission. If you let someone else drive your vehicle, you are taking on the risks and responsibilities of that decision. It is your car so it is your insurance. She shouldn't have attempted to do it, but you gave her the go ahead. You may can see if the scouts have insurance for such a situation. I don't think the blame lies entirely with the other woman. You gave her keys and said go ahead when you knew it would be difficult in your vehicle. I don't think the courts would side with you on this one because you gave full consent in front of witnesses and did not discuss insurance or what would happen should your vehicle be damaged. This was avoidable. You should have told her it was impossible and not given her your keys. This happened to my cousin 2x in 2 weeks when she was trying to sell a car and letting people test drive. Those people were not responsible for damages. She willingly gave them the keys and permission to drive the vehicle. It would be different if she did not have permission to move the vehicle. It all boils down to giving her consent to drive the vehicle and attempt a tricky parking situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The insurance company sees it as an act of God. The law in my area does not. I have more than one friend who has had to pay for things damaged by their trees. The insurance company is not the law. The person responsible for the damage should make it right again. You might want to check the actual law. Just because the friend has paid for the damages done by their trees doesn't mean they legally were required to do so. Or the trees in question may have been known to be diseased/dangerous. Where you live may have different laws than the rest of the country, but most places the law is that a tree falling is an act of God and the owner of the tree is not responsible unless the tree was a known danger. (Everywhere I can find this is the case.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 A few thoughts... 1) My insurance company requires notification within 24 hours of the incident unless one is hospitalized and can't notify. 2) I think it will probably be under your insurance, not hers, because it is your car but that may depend on state law. 2) I'd offer to split the cost since she was driving the car as a favor to you. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abigail4476 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You should have called your insurance company and your agent first thing, even if it was clearly not your fault. We call our agent about everything, even if we just have a tow. Your insurance company does NOT want to pay if they can make someone else pay, so if there's any reason why her company should pay instead, they will go to bat FOR you. Trust me on this. Sometimes they will split responsibility between parties and your insurance company might pay some and hers might pay the rest. If you choose not to involve your insurance company, then I don't agree that she has to cough up the whole amount for the damage. You are supposed to carry insurance for precisely that reason--and if you refuse to allow your insurance to pay for something that is covered, she shouldn't be responsible for your lack of willingness to file a claim. If she wants to split the cost, that's fine. If she doesn't, then I don't think you have much recourse. If I were her and this was damage that your insurance company should cover and you refused to file, I would be pretty upset with you. It isn't her job to keep your insurance from hiking your rates due to past claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 In how many ways is she breaking her girl scout promise? :glare: Nothing is the mirror's fault. Mirrors are inanimate objects. :glare::glare: :iagree: Isn't that part of the driving test to get your license? You get in the vehicle, make sure the mirrors are all adjusted properly, then you can drive. That's just a basic rule of driving a car. Somehow, I don't think a cop would let you get away with, "Oh, the mirror wasn't adjusted properly" if you backed into another vehicle. It would be your fault for not adjusting the mirror like you're supposed to. And wow, that lady shouldn't be driving ambulances or fire trucks if she doesn't even adjust the mirror in a van before backing up. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 OP, here is what I would do now. I'd be direct with a conversation, on the phone or in person: "It is my belief that your driving wrecked my truck and I expect you to pay for it to be fixed." I would not accept/respond to any form of "mirrors" or other deflections and I'd document the conversation factually. I'd get 2-3 estimates for repair. I'd offer them to her. If she did not pay, I would have an attorney draft a letter. If she did not pay, I'd go to small claims court. Now, it's not her fault that you don't want to report it to your insurance. So, as such, you might offer that she pays the equivalent to your deductible or some form of splitting the bill. Edited to add: I still think you weren't direct at the incident and you haven't been direct or assertive since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Generally, the insurance on the car pays first even if someone not on the insurance is driving as long as the person has permission to use the car, which was given. If it is inadequate, the insurance of the driver will kick in. If the person who drove the car made a claim with her insurance company, that insurance company will refuse and say to make a claim with the car's insurance company first. You can check state laws, but that is generally how it works. So if you ask her to pay for damages and she files a claim with her insurance company, that is what will probably happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I have a question... If this was a Girl Scout event, has anyone contacted the office? I know we have a GS insurance policy for actual GS events. I don't know what it covers since I'm not comfortable driving other people's kids but I would contact the office and tell them what happened. Perhaps they can intervene and moderate any disputes at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Okay, I called my agent. He said it would be "detrimental" for me to file another claim at this point since I just had 2 claims. One wasn't even our fault. It was hail damage. Before that we hadn't had any claim in 7 years. My co leader also called her insurance. They told her that the damage wasn't covered. So there it is. I guess I'll be paying myself or living with the damage. If I push her she might pay, but I guess that wouldn't be fair, since its my vehicle. But it makes me so angry to think about because she always thinks her way is better and she wanted the stupid car turned around. I would have been happy to let the scouts carry their junk from where it was. It wasn't that far, and they are middle schoolers. It would have been no big deal. Lesson learned. She should still cover your deductible whether you file or not. Was there not any discussion about this when she told you her insurance wasn't covering it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ummm.... don't call. Absolutely write an email, "Hey Suzie, I'd like to know what your insurance company said when you called about backing into that tree. Could you let me know right away so that it can be fixed?" Thanks for getting back to me! You want a record of her saying she drove it into the tree. Also, call your insurance and let them know you didn't think to call them before, as it was being driven by someone else. Hopefully you're in a state that she has to pay. As far as favor or not, it's not as though you had gotten it into a spot you needing help "unjamming" it from. She was too confident about her driving abilities. Some people are REALLY good about backing into spaces and they can back MY van into way tighter spaces than I can. My husband is one of those people.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Okay, I called my agent. He said it would be "detrimental" for me to file another claim at this point since I just had 2 claims. One wasn't even our fault. It was hail damage. Before that we hadn't had any claim in 7 years. My co leader also called her insurance. They told her that the damage wasn't covered. So there it is. I guess I'll be paying myself or living with the damage. If I push her she might pay, but I guess that wouldn't be fair, since its my vehicle. But it makes me so angry to think about because she always thinks her way is better and she wanted the stupid car turned around. I would have been happy to let the scouts carry their junk from where it was. It wasn't that far, and they are middle schoolers. It would have been no big deal. Lesson learned. So because her insurance won't pay, she doesn't feel any responsibility? That is poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Okay, I called my agent. He said it would be "detrimental" for me to file another claim at this point since I just had 2 claims. One wasn't even our fault. It was hail damage. Before that we hadn't had any claim in 7 years. My co leader also called her insurance. They told her that the damage wasn't covered. So there it is. I guess I'll be paying myself or living with the damage. If I push her she might pay, but I guess that wouldn't be fair, since its my vehicle. But it makes me so angry to think about because she always thinks her way is better and she wanted the stupid car turned around. I would have been happy to let the scouts carry their junk from where it was. It wasn't that far, and they are middle schoolers. It would have been no big deal. Lesson learned. Not this... ask your insurance if she's legally responsible. AND, I wouldn't take her word that she called her insurance. She drove, she's responsible. See what the law is in your state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I would get 2-3 estimates very quickly and then hand them to her as if she would be paying, with no discussion. Just, "Hey, here are the estimates on the van. Look them over," then walk away. If she balks at how much it is and brings up your insurance, I would offer to split the damage or have her pay for the deductible, which ever is more. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm in two minds about this. You let her drive your car. She made a mistake, but she was acting under your permission. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 OP, call your agent and ask about the liability and the legality of who is *legally* required to pay what. Reading through this whole thread, apparently there are 101 different ways to view this and 101 different opinions on who is responsible for what. But a call *from* you to *your* agent should clear up who has to do what. If it is something that your insurance will cover and you choose not to have them cover it, then you will have to take that up with her if she is willing to pay. I don't understand all the confusion. :confused: Talking with *your* agent should answer all questions definitively and without bias. If it is her insurance's responsibility, your insurance will contact her company and get that money. You may still be out the deductible, but then again, your insurance might shift that to her insurance and she might have to pay *her* deductible. Call and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I have a question... If this was a Girl Scout event, has anyone contacted the office? I know we have a GS insurance policy for actual GS events. I don't know what it covers since I'm not comfortable driving other people's kids but I would contact the office and tell them what happened. Perhaps they can intervene and moderate any disputes at the very least. Good thought. Since this happened at an event, their insurance may well cover it. They should certainly want to moderate otherwise this will blow out and they'll lose two leaders. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 She wrecked it, the tree didn't just jump out. She needs to assume some responsibility for that. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.