6packofun Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm just linkin' it, but feel free to discuss. :D http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/created-to-be-his-help-meet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Something that has seemed to mark the women I know who have followed this view of submission is that they are very angry and judgmental women. I wonder if there is a correlation, that they are so miserable they cannot help but lash out at everyone else. I liked the review and I am not normally a Challies fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I just posted about it, too! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Something that has seemed to mark the women I know who have followed this view of submission is that they are very angry and judgmental women. I wonder if there is a correlation, that they are so miserable they cannot help but lash out at everyone else. I liked the review and I am not normally a Challies fan. They are also very lonely and can't seem to keep friends that don't follow this idea. I tried to read this just to read it and it was just so out of the realm in my mind it had to go back to the library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Wow. Won't be reading that book on marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6wishes Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Good review. I like to read Tim's reviews, and someone else who linked to this is Wendy Alsup. She writes a great blog called Practical Theology for Women-http://www.theologyforwomen.org/. She also has a Facebook page with the same title, and actually has a gospel based viewpoint of women's roles etc...I would much rather focus on this then the way the Pearls look at anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna in North CA Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 This book has has received SO much attention. I can't really figure out why. I read it. Some parts were ok...a lot were wonky. It's a self-help book, and the perspective of one woman. Its astounding to me how people can take a book such as this and make it law. You would think that Oprah wrote it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa R. Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Good review. I'm not familiar with Challies, but he did a good job reviewing the book. I just can't imagine someone with common sense could read this review and still defend the Pearls. I also liked what one of the comments said. Paraphrasing, it said that that when people hold one of these extreme views, they don't do so in isolation. In other words, if they hold a wacky view in one area, chances are they hold wacky views in several areas. Based on my experience, I've seen this to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks for that link. Looks like a blog I would read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVA Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm a Challies fan and agree with his review. The Pearls are OUT THERE ! Is their way of thinking really THAT prevelant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kricau Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I have read that book myself. And while I agree with the basic idea: "wives are to help (submit to) their husbands". I also agree with this review. She is harsh in her judgment of other women. And does not give good counsel. If it was written by another women it would have been a great book. I can't wait for his follow up review tomorrow. * Also, their book "How to Train Up a Child" Made me want to cry for all those poor little two year olds out there that are being raised that way :( Edited July 16, 2012 by kricau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Its astounding to me how people can take a book such as this and make it law. You would think that Oprah wrote it.... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I have read that book myself. And while I agree with the basic idea: "wives are to help (submit to) their husbands". I also agree with this review. She is harsh in her judgment of other women. And does not give good counsel. If it was written by another women it would have been a great book. I can't wait for his follow up review tomorrow. I have read this book as well. However, I think this reviewer is exceedingly biased in his presentation. He quotes all the very worst things he found that Debbie wrote, yet merely outlines some areas in which she presented information of which he approved. I don't like that kind of reviewing. I prefer a more balanced approach. I agree with someone upthread who said that Debbie Pearl is very "unpolished". She definitely is, but I read her as blunt and plainspoken, instead of harsh and insulting (though granted, the "hillbilly" reference is pretty offensive no matter who you are, but it isn't related to the substance of her information). I'm sure personality plays a role in this, as I'm able to separate the factual information from the tone in which it is being presented. She has some good things to say that are honest and truthful evaluations, and some things with which I would not agree no matter how she presented it...like many authors. This reviewer had an ax to grind and presented it in a very skewed way. I'm unfamiliar with this person, so I will try to read the next one and see if I still read it the same way. By the way, I'm a strong personality and have several degrees, so it isn't as if I am a weak, uneducated woman who cannot analyze information and who defers to her husband all of the time. He's just as likely, and actually probably more likely to defer to me, particularly in areas of my strengths. Debbie's perspective has value, in the final analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveOaksAcademy Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I have read this book as well. However, I think this reviewer is exceedingly biased in his presentation. He quotes all the very worst things he found that Debbie wrote, yet merely outlines some areas in which she presented information of which he approved. . The problem, though, is that even if he chose the very worst things he found that Debbie wrote, those things are so bad that I would run from her advice. There are enough absolutely insane quotes out there from books by the Pearls that I don't think a person need take and read all of their writing to form the opinion that they are way off and not Godly counsel, even if they do throw in a few good nuggets. I really worry about new Christians, new wives, new moms, women in abusive relationships, women looking for a quick fix to be the Christ-like woman they desire to be. It's dangerous territory!!! I've not read the helpmeet book. If I could get my hands on it for free, I may try to read it in order to see what all the hubbub is about...I sure wouldn't spend money on their books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyK Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I have read this book, it sits on my shelf at this moment. I have such mixed feelings about it, because it truly changed my marriage for the better. It changed me for the better, yet.. I also agree with so much of what the reviewer claims. She does seem so angry and resentful towards the women that I think she's aiming to help. I guess it might just have been what I needed at the time, but at this point in my life, I see it totally differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I also liked what one of the comments said. Paraphrasing, it said that that when people hold one of these extreme views, they don't do so in isolation. In other words, if they hold a wacky view in one area, chances are they hold wacky views in several areas. Based on my experience, I've seen this to be true. Sorry, but this made me laugh. I imagined all the people I know who think I have wacky views on education because I homeschool. I imagine them whispering to each other, "She breastfed a toddler AND used cloth diapers too!":lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I tried to read that book (a library copy since I won't spend money that benefits the Pearl's) and I thought it was garbage before I even got through the introduction. I had dh read some of it to see if I was being biased, but he agreed with me. The stuff about winning back a cheating husband using feminine wiles does nothing but empower the husband and cheapen the wife. I lived that marriage, and I know that cheating is an issue of the cheating spouse, not the non-cheating spouse. It sickens me that young wives are reading that book and think it's biblically and emotionally sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 FiveOaksAcademy: I really worry about new Christians, new wives, new moms, women in abusive relationships, women looking for a quick fix to be the Christ-like woman they desire to be. It's dangerous territory!!! Well, I don't worry about this, as I believe that women are highly intelligent and intuitive, and, as a Christian, I believe they will be led to good counsel for whatever thing they need. I believe in the ability to discern truth from error, especially the more solidly grounded in God's Word that one is. People make mistakes but most people fix them pretty quickly. I don't agree that it is "dangerous" any more than I agree that the First Amendment is "dangerous". I've not read the helpmeet book. If I could get my hands on it for free, I may try to read it in order to see what all the hubbub is about...I sure wouldn't spend money on their books. I have, as well as other sorts of advice books over the years, some good, and some bad. The goal is to glean the wisdom from each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 LizzyBee: I tried to read that book (a library copy since I won't spend money that benefits the Pearl's) and I thought it was garbage before I even got through the introduction. I had dh read some of it to see if I was being biased, but he agreed with me. Ok. Not surprising your husband agreed with you. Don't most husbands agree with their wives (smart ones, anyway!). ;) The stuff about winning back a cheating husband using feminine wiles does nothing but empower the husband and cheapen the wife. Well, that's one way to look at it. It may turn out that way in any given marriage. Or....if the problem was lack of interest in the husband (and we don't know about any given marriage), it might make a difference. Who knows? It is practical advice for simply one more avenue to attempt, if this is the issue. It may work or not. It doesn't "cheapen" the wife, if it accomplishes her goal of turning over a new leaf with her husband. And it doesn't empower the husband either. He is already going to lose in so many ways if he is having an affair. Both win if the marriage can be put back together. I lived that marriage, and I know that cheating is an issue of the cheating spouse, not the non-cheating spouse. I'm sorry, and I agree that the problem is solely on the head of the cheating spouse. However, what is the goal here? If the goal is to repair the marriage, and any given change might do it, what is the harm in trying that change. It might not work, but then you have the knowledge of knowing that every possible avenue has been explored before breaking up a marriage, which will always affect the kids far into adulthood. It sickens me that young wives are reading that book and think it's biblically and emotionally sound. I guess I give them more credit than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girl Power Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 The problem, though, is that even if he chose the very worst things he found that Debbie wrote, those things are so bad that I would run from her advice. There are enough absolutely insane quotes out there from books by the Pearls that I don't think a person need take and read all of their writing to form the opinion that they are way off and not Godly counsel, even if they do throw in a few good nuggets. I really worry about new Christians, new wives, new moms, women in abusive relationships, women looking for a quick fix to be the Christ-like woman they desire to be. It's dangerous territory!!! I've not read the helpmeet book. If I could get my hands on it for free, I may try to read it in order to see what all the hubbub is about...I sure wouldn't spend money on their books. I agree. Her advice on wifely roles can be harmful to women just as their advice on childrearing can be harmful to children. Sorry, I can't separate any tiny gems of advice from the rest of the pile of garbage she spews. Beck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveOaksAcademy Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Well, I don't worry about this, as I believe that women are highly intelligent and intuitive, and, as a Christian, I believe they will be led to good counsel for whatever thing they need. I believe in the ability to discern truth from error, especially the more solidly grounded in God's Word that one is. People make mistakes but most people fix them pretty quickly. I don't agree that it is "dangerous" any more than I agree that the First Amendment is "dangerous". I have, as well as other sorts of advice books over the years, some good, and some bad. The goal is to glean the wisdom from each. For wise people, it is the goal. I know of many women who grab onto a teaching and think it is their easy way to being Christlike, if they just follow xyz. Just because I know the susceptibility of many women to swallow false teaching does not mean I don't believe they are intelligent. I believe, like Christ warns, that there will be wolves in sheeps' clothing and that people ARE able to be deceived...our very nature makes us prey to that or the NT wouldn't be so full of warnings!! It is those very women who don't "get" the relationship, walking with Christ, learning from His Word as we walk with Him, that they don't always need to have THE perfect response to situations they come against. They think some guru is going to fix them, when Christ and His grace is the only answer!! I stand by my opinion that it is "dangerous" just as many of the books that are put out by people in the homeschool community in regards to parenting, marriage, etc. Edited July 16, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I tried to read it but couldn't get past the "men are leaders" just because they have the correct plumbing. As for the Pearls I think they are psychotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I tried to read it but couldn't get past the "men are leaders" just because they have the correct plumbing. As for the Pearls I think they are psychotic. Tell us how you really feel :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leanna Tomlinson Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think it's a good review. I always thought the book spoke volumes about what kind of man Mrs. Pearl was married to. I just couldn't relate because my husband is kind, generous, and sweet. The way she would describe men made me think she didn't know any true Christian men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I agree. Her advice on wifely roles can be harmful to women just as their advice on childrearing can be harmful to children. Sorry, I can't separate any tiny gems of advice from the rest of the pile of garbage she spews. Beck My grandma's advice on child rearing or cooking or anything else could have been harmful. But I still would accept what good advice would be there. I've had multiple teachers, contractors, doctors, attorneys, exercise coaches, insurance salesmen, and various other people who've passed through my life who have had only "tiny gems of advice", though obviously, the ones I stick with, have had larger gems (but not perfect) of advice. Everyone - EVERYONE - is a mixture of good and not so good. Writers are no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read the review. I rid my house of all Pearl materials the day I watched their marriage videos. Mr. Pearl is a control freak with serious anti-equality issues with women. You really see it the most in their marriage video. I thought I'd give the book mentioned a try, but I got so tired of the same insinuation that no matter what, submission and not saying a word will win out every time. I do not want any part of a relationship like that. In fact, I have come to a point (after 13 years) of believing that our marriage works best if there is no head. I continue to serve, be a helper, etc., but I expect the same in return and have a new-found freedom to let my husband know my needs and expectations. I expect my husband to respect everything I have to bring to the table. I have homeschooled for 13 years, I am the accountant for our business, I take care of all financial details, I run the household, and I am a strong intelligent capable woman. I need someone who isn't threatened by that but respects it. I should be able to say, when asked what could improve our marriage, "If he would fix the screen door that I have asked him to fix numerous times" without being told I am a controlling ungrateful woman. Like I said, watch the video. Meanwhile, women whose husbands are addicted to p!rn are admonished that they should put lingerie on and draw the husband away from it. No. I am not that sort of woman, and I don't want to be. If I had that problem, I would tell my husband he has one chance to choose . That's it. I refuse to have relations with a man I don't respect. When I feel my husband has started to neglect my emotional needs, I tell him. I also remind him that the bedroom only works if I feel loved. Yes, I am woman; hear me -- not roar, but be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well, I don't worry about this, as I believe that women are highly intelligent and intuitive, and, as a Christian, I believe they will be led to good counsel for whatever thing they need. I believe in the ability to discern truth from error, especially the more solidly grounded in God's Word that one is. People make mistakes but most people fix them pretty quickly. I don't agree that it is "dangerous" any more than I agree that the First Amendment is "dangerous". I have, as well as other sorts of advice books over the years, some good, and some bad. The goal is to glean the wisdom from each. Trust me, you have not met many of the women I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 My grandma's advice on child rearing or cooking or anything else could have been harmful. But I still would accept what good advice would be there. I've had multiple teachers, contractors, doctors, attorneys, exercise coaches, insurance salesmen, and various other people who've passed through my life who have had only "tiny gems of advice", though obviously, the ones I stick with, have had larger gems (but not perfect) of advice. Everyone - EVERYONE - is a mixture of good and not so good. Writers are no different. There comes a point when the advice is discredited. Some really horrific people have some good ideas as well, but I'm not going to look to them for marriage or any other advice. Their advice is dangerous for women and families. Perhaps you are a strong women and able to sort the good from the bad, unfortunately plenty are not and there is other information out there without resorting to supporting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read the review. I rid my house of all Pearl materials the day I watched their marriage videos. Mr. Pearl is a control freak with serious anti-equality issues with women. You really see it the most in their marriage video. I thought I'd give the book mentioned a try, but I got so tired of the same insinuation that no matter what, submission and not saying a word will win out every time. I do not want any part of a relationship like that. In fact, I have come to a point (after 13 years) of believing that our marriage works best if there is no head. I continue to serve, be a helper, etc., but I expect the same in return and have a new-found freedom to let my husband know my needs and expectations. I expect my husband to respect everything I have to bring to the table. I have homeschooled for 13 years, I am the accountant for our business, I take care of all financial details, I run the household, and I am a strong intelligent capable woman. I need someone who isn't threatened by that but respects it. I should be able to say, when asked what could improve our marriage, "If he would fix the screen door that I have asked him to fix numerous times" without being told I am a controlling ungrateful woman. Like I said, watch the video. Meanwhile, women whose husbands are addicted to p!rn are admonished that they should put lingerie on and draw the husband away from it. No. I am not that sort of woman, and I don't want to be. If I had that problem, I would tell my husband he has one chance to choose . That's it. I refuse to have relations with a man I don't respect. When I feel my husband has started to neglect my emotional needs, I tell him. I also remind him that the bedroom only works if I feel loved. Yes, I am woman; hear me -- not roar, but be heard. :hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 nestof3: In fact, I have come to a point (after 13 years) of believing that our marriage works best if there is no head. I continue to serve, be a helper, etc., but I expect the same in return and have a new-found freedom to let my husband know my needs and expectations. I expect my husband to respect everything I have to bring to the table. I have homeschooled for 13 years, I am the accountant for our business, I take care of all financial details, I run the household, and I am a strong intelligent capable woman. I need someone who isn't threatened by that but respects it. See, I have always had a marriage of total equality like this, so I can't conceive of ever having to gain a "new found freedom". I guess this is why their materials is not threatening to me, and maybe I assume others are like me. I should be able to say, when asked what could improve our marriage, "If he would fix the screen door that I have asked him to fix numerous times" without being told I am a controlling ungrateful woman. Like I said, watch the video. Really? A woman who asks her husband to fix the screen door is called a controlling, ungrateful woman in the video? I haven't seen it. Or are they actually saying that a woman who complains about this as is it is really significant, when it is actually a rather small problem in the scheme of things (when he could be a terrorist, a murderer, a rapist, a wife-beater, etc), is being controlling and ungrateful in the scheme of things. Meanwhile, women whose husbands are addicted to p!rn are admonished that they should put lingerie on and draw the husband away from it. I think it was more than that, by a long shot. I believe I remember something about getting rid of or password protecting internet access so that it takes both husband and wife to turn it on, as I recall, though I could be confusing it with something else I read. No. I am not that sort of woman, and I don't want to be. If I had that problem, I would tell my husband he has one chance to choose . That's it. I refuse to have relations with a man I don't respect. When I feel my husband has started to neglect my emotional needs, I tell him. I also remind him that the bedroom only works if I feel loved. Well, of course. All that is a given, in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 When I was in ministry I led a young women's group and we went through this book. It was before they had the one for young women. Oh, how I regret what I led those young women into. Most of them I have stayed in contact with and they have witnessed, first hand, the change in my beliefs. Most I have been able to have very healing discussions with. But, a couple weeks ago, right before the 4th, I was blindsided by a very painful message from one of these dear girls. She has not taken my change (maturing) well. :glare: To put it gently, I am forsaking everything I ever taught her, I am unstable, double minded, and in jeopardy of leading my children astray and wishing there was millstone hung around my neck. I was able to respond kindly to her, but I did take the opportunity to say I did have serious regrets about what I taught her in regards to that Helpmeet book. She has not responded, and I really do not think she will, as she married into the family that purchased the books for me in the first place. The whole situation is very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Really? A woman who asks her husband to fix the screen door is called a controlling, ungrateful woman in the video? I haven't seen it. Or are they actually saying that a woman who complains about this as is it is really significant, when it is actually a rather small problem in the scheme of things (when he could be a terrorist, a murderer, a rapist, a wife-beater, etc), is being controlling and ungrateful in the scheme of things. I think a discussion can often use a Devil's Advocate so we aren't standing around agreeing with each other. However, To one woman she says that if her husband sexually handles their children, that woman must call the authorities (wise!), but then she tells her that she ought to bring the children to visit their father in prison three to four times a year (potentially extremely unwise depending on the situation!). Not only this, but she tells the wife that is she does this, it will certainly win her husband to the Lord so once he is released, they can get on with life. is in the book, so I do not think your suggested meanings apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 This reviewer had an ax to grind and presented it in a very skewed way. I'm unfamiliar with this person, so I will try to read the next one and see if I still read it the same way. Just because someone strongly disagrees with someone's point of view doesn't mean they have an "ax to grind". Naturally he made some allegations about Debbi Pearl (being a harsh, angry, bitter woman) and he quoted from the parts of the book that supported those allegations. Why would he quote extensively from the parts he agreed with? Well, I don't worry about this, as I believe that women are highly intelligent and intuitive, and, as a Christian, I believe they will be led to good counsel for whatever thing they need. I believe in the ability to discern truth from error, especially the more solidly grounded in God's Word that one is. People make mistakes but most people fix them pretty quickly. I don't agree that it is "dangerous" any more than I agree that the First Amendment is "dangerous". I have, as well as other sorts of advice books over the years, some good, and some bad. The goal is to glean the wisdom from each. Unfortunately, there are people who get trapped into a way of thinking. The Pearls and other people like that have a very rigid worldview about the correct way to raise your children or how your marriage needs to look. They give advice based on this, promising dire results if their advice isn't followed. And you notice how their solution to all problems seems to be the same? All marriage problems can be solved with submission. All child rearing problems can be solved with beatings. No one could accuse them of subtlety. Sometimes people are simply convinced of bad advice. I've seen it first hand, with intelligent people who have the best of intentions. You're lucky if you've never seen this happen. I'm not suggesting a book burning or anything, and I do believe in freedom of speech, even for creeps like the Pearls, but people should be speaking against their harmful advice at every single opportunity. I tried to read it but couldn't get past the "men are leaders" just because they have the correct plumbing. As for the Pearls I think they are psychotic. :iagree: :) When I was in ministry I led a young women's group and we went through this book. It was before they had the one for young women. Oh, how I regret what I led those young women into. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read the review. I rid my house of all Pearl materials the day I watched their marriage videos. Mr. Pearl is a control freak with serious anti-equality issues with women. You really see it the most in their marriage video. I thought I'd give the book mentioned a try, but I got so tired of the same insinuation that no matter what, submission and not saying a word will win out every time. I do not want any part of a relationship like that. In fact, I have come to a point (after 13 years) of believing that our marriage works best if there is no head. I continue to serve, be a helper, etc., but I expect the same in return and have a new-found freedom to let my husband know my needs and expectations. I expect my husband to respect everything I have to bring to the table. I have homeschooled for 13 years, I am the accountant for our business, I take care of all financial details, I run the household, and I am a strong intelligent capable woman. I need someone who isn't threatened by that but respects it. I should be able to say, when asked what could improve our marriage, "If he would fix the screen door that I have asked him to fix numerous times" without being told I am a controlling ungrateful woman. Like I said, watch the video. Meanwhile, women whose husbands are addicted to p!rn are admonished that they should put lingerie on and draw the husband away from it. No. I am not that sort of woman, and I don't want to be. If I had that problem, I would tell my husband he has one chance to choose . That's it. I refuse to have relations with a man I don't respect. When I feel my husband has started to neglect my emotional needs, I tell him. I also remind him that the bedroom only works if I feel loved. Yes, I am woman; hear me -- not roar, but be heard. Yes, Dawn, you are a strong, intelligent, and capable woman, worthy of your dh's love and respect. :hurray::hurray::hurray::grouphug: I am sorry. Little gems of wisdom are just that - little. I won't wade through piles of toxic waste for "little" anything. I also have minimal faith that intelligent women will know which little "nugget" to pick out from Pearl's books. New wives, new mothers, wives in abusive or rocky marriages can be extremely vulnerable. When you want to be a "perfect" mother or you desperately want to be a good Christian wife in a failing marriage, desperation and insecurity can lead you to follow the advice of people whose life philosophy would make you run screaming in the other direction on a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 When you want to be a "perfect" mother or you desperately want to be a good Christian wife in a failing marriage, desperation and insecurity can lead you to follow the advice of people whose life philosophy would make you run screaming in the other direction on a good day. So true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read the review. I rid my house of all Pearl materials the day I watched their marriage videos. Mr. Pearl is a control freak with serious anti-equality issues with women. You really see it the most in their marriage video. I thought I'd give the book mentioned a try, but I got so tired of the same insinuation that no matter what, submission and not saying a word will win out every time. I do not want any part of a relationship like that. In fact, I have come to a point (after 13 years) of believing that our marriage works best if there is no head. I continue to serve, be a helper, etc., but I expect the same in return and have a new-found freedom to let my husband know my needs and expectations. I expect my husband to respect everything I have to bring to the table. I have homeschooled for 13 years, I am the accountant for our business, I take care of all financial details, I run the household, and I am a strong intelligent capable woman. I need someone who isn't threatened by that but respects it. I should be able to say, when asked what could improve our marriage, "If he would fix the screen door that I have asked him to fix numerous times" without being told I am a controlling ungrateful woman. Like I said, watch the video. Meanwhile, women whose husbands are addicted to p!rn are admonished that they should put lingerie on and draw the husband away from it. No. I am not that sort of woman, and I don't want to be. If I had that problem, I would tell my husband he has one chance to choose . That's it. I refuse to have relations with a man I don't respect. When I feel my husband has started to neglect my emotional needs, I tell him. I also remind him that the bedroom only works if I feel loved. Yes, I am woman; hear me -- not roar, but be heard. Dawn this is one of the best posts I've read in a while! Thank you for expressing yourself so well....and helping me to articulate my own feelings on all of this. I believe in a Biblical model for marriage but most of what you see out there in self -help books is so far removed from what "I" believe that model should be that I wince when I read most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Yes, this is an accurate portrayl of the videos. My dh and i watched them together and decided to toss them together. They asked men and women from the audience what their spouses could do to make them feel loved. Every response from a woman was criticized by Mr. Pearl. We have never had a Pearlish marriage, but we spent years under similar teaching, and I have read many if the books trying to apply the principles. I rarely meet men who read the books, so women tend to be the ones trying to do the applying. Men talk of being stronger leaders so often but rarely stronger servants. See, I have always had a marriage of total equality like this, so I can't conceive of ever having to gain a "new found freedom". I guess this is why their materials is not threatening to me, and maybe I assume others are like me. Really? A woman who asks her husband to fix the screen door is called a controlling, ungrateful woman in the video? I haven't seen it. Or are they actually saying that a woman who complains about this as is it is really significant, when it is actually a rather small problem in the scheme of things (when he could be a terrorist, a murderer, a rapist, a wife-beater, etc), is being controlling and ungrateful in the scheme of things. I think it was more than that, by a long shot. I believe I remember something about getting rid of or password protecting internet access so that it takes both husband and wife to turn it on, as I recall, though I could be confusing it with something else I read. Well, of course. All that is a given, in my mind. Edited July 16, 2012 by nestof3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'll be back -- have to eat dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Sis: I think a discussion can often use a Devil's Advocate so we aren't standing around agreeing with each other. Ha. Well, that's what I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 However, is in the book, so I do not think your suggested meanings apply I had to go back to reread what you had quoted, since it didn't appear. You quoted the reviewer, not the book. I'd like to see what the book actually says on that, but have no idea where it is, among the several thousand stuffed into this house. I don't know what would happen in that situation. Maybe the guy would reoffend forever. I do remember Pearl talking about that any offender who is serious about changing will put himself under authority and under very tight restrictions with several levels, so I'd like to see what she had actually said about that. I'm sure no one would suggest that a woman simply let an offender move right back in. In fact, I'm sure he insists upon separation, but simply not divorce, as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 This reviewer had an ax to grind and presented it in a very skewed way. Tim Challies is one of the most thorough, thoughtful reviewers I've come across. Even when I disagree with him, I would never describe him this way, and I think it's clear you aren't familiar with his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Yes, this is an accurate portrayl of the videos. My dh and i watched them together and decided to toss them together. They asked men and women from the audience what their spouses could do to make them feel loved. Every response from a woman was criticized by Mr. Pearl. We have never had a Pearlish marriage, but we spent years under similar teaching, and I have read many if the books trying to apply the principles. I rarely meet men who read the books, so women tend to be the ones trying to do the applying. Men talk of being stronger leaders so often but rarely stronger servants. Yeah. You have to marry a strong servant in the first place and you have to observe the character of the spouse you are choosing very closely. Whatever annoys you while dating will drive you insane later on. Perhaps they leave that part out. I don't know. But many marriages are in trouble because people let attraction blind them to what actually makes a good spouse. Granted, I didn't get married until 2 weeks from 30 years old, so I guess I have an advantage in that area that others who married young did not have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Yeah. You have to marry a strong servant in the first place and you have to observe the character of the spouse you are choosing very closely. Whatever annoys you while dating will drive you insane later on. Perhaps they leave that part out. I don't know. But many marriages are in trouble because people let attraction blind them to what actually makes a good spouse. Granted, I didn't get married until 2 weeks from 30 years old, so I guess I have an advantage in that area that others who married young did not have. My aunt had no idea when she married her husband when she was in her 40's that he would spent $16,000 on Internet p$rn (from inheritance money). This is a man who cries when telling the Christmas story when he has us family around. He also buys stuff and tells her to pay for it. He stopped working which forced her to go back to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Yeah. You have to marry a strong servant in the first place and you have to observe the character of the spouse you are choosing very closely. Whatever annoys you while dating will drive you insane later on. Perhaps they leave that part out. I don't know. But many marriages are in trouble because people let attraction blind them to what actually makes a good spouse. Granted, I didn't get married until 2 weeks from 30 years old, so I guess I have an advantage in that area that others who married young did not have. So, those who can't or won't have this type of marriage don't have true servant's hearts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 My aunt had no idea when she married her husband when she was in her 40's that he would spent $16,000 on Internet p$rn (from inheritance money). This is a man who cries when telling the Christmas story when he has us family around. He also buys stuff and tells her to pay for it. He stopped working which forced her to go back to work. I'm sure she didn't, but was there any hint of trouble that she ignored, looking back. Most people say there were absolute red flags of character issues that they overlooked because they were so in love. Hindsight, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 So, those who can't or won't have this type of marriage don't have true servant's hearts? I don't understand your question. The true servant's heart should belong to the man, especially, though it is even better when it is both, of course. The Christian man is required to serve his family, and love his wife the way Christ loved the Church. Pretty high standard to reach for there, and certainly should be a consideration in choosing a spouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Tim Challies is one of the most thorough, thoughtful reviewers I've come across. Even when I disagree with him, I would never describe him this way, and I think it's clear you aren't familiar with his work. You are right. Not familiar with his work. I simply took his words here on face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well I give Challies credit for even wasting 5 minutes to give that piece literary drivel a review. I thought he was pretty nice about it, really. Not only is it absolute literary garbage, it is also theological garbage. It is just garbage. Someone gave it to me once. I used it to line the cat litter box. :D . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girl Power Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well I give Challies credit for even wasting 5 minutes to give that piece literary drivel a review. I thought he was pretty nice about it, really. Not only is it absolute literary garbage, it is also theological garbage. It is just garbage. Someone gave it to me once. I used it to line the cat litter box. :D . :D:D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Well I give Challies credit for even wasting 5 minutes to give that piece literary drivel a review. I thought he was pretty nice about it, really. Not only is it absolute literary garbage, it is also theological garbage. It is just garbage. Someone gave it to me once. I used it to line the cat litter box. :D . :iagree: I really like Challies and respect his ideas and reviews. I don't always agree with him, either, but I certainly respect him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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