ACLU and children's "right to literacy" in Michigan-- your thoughts?

[Scuff]

We need to correct a myth here. Michigan does not spend $12,000.00 per head to educate kids. Now, if you live in Traverse City, or Petoskey, or Charlevoix, or Grosse Pointe, or other neighborhoods with property values of such high caliber, then yeah, your school district is going to get that kind of money.

 

But, the bulk of funding is based on property taxes on residential and commercial properties with commercial paying A LOT. So, take a look at this neighborhood...half the buildings ought to be buldozed, there probably isn't a property in the whole dang area that's worth more than $50,000.00 and there are an awful lot of properties that the township will never collect any tax on at all! I mean, you can't draw blood from a turnip (as the old saying goes), and while they can put liens on these places for back taxes, it isn't as though they'll get a dime for them when they go up for auction. The drug trade and violence related to it is so intense in Highland Park who is going to buy it? Seriously, I'm not. You're not. Nobody is! The schools get very little in that area because there is very little to be collected in taxes. Fill out your income tax in Michigan, what do you do, you have to indicate your school district. How many people live in that area and have no income except public assistance? Who is paying taxes into the infrastructure, it sure as h&ll ain't the drug dealers, pimps, car thieves, and slum lords.

 

These kids do not have ANY of the tools for educational success when they arrive at school. Many of them can never be successful on a standardized test because the subject material is stacked against them. They live in the Detroit, they've never been to the zoo, they've never been outside the neighborhood, and they have no idea about a huge array of "assumed kids this age know this stuff because they've been exposed to lots of reading and of course mom and dad read to them when they were little and have books and pictures and maps and internet and......in the house" information asked about in the reading comprehension stories. Oh, now they could tell you the exact process to remove hub-caps off a Buick LaSabre stopped at a red light by some poor soul that got lost in the city and didn't know that in this neighborhood stop lights, stop signs, and yields could get you killed so YOU DO NOT STOP....forget the law, stay safe! Hey, these kids are street savvy....smarter than you or I and very adaptable. We wouldn't last a day in their world. But tests that talk about nice houses, decent food, playgrounds, gardens, museums, mom and dad taking you to the beach...what's a beach????? f If they hadn't skipped half the school days that year to take care of the baby while mom turned tricks to get grocery money, or clean up after alcoholic dad, then maybe they'd have heard what a beach was! Most of the content is beyond them, it's a fantasy. Some of them actually can read the stupid tests, they just have no intention of jumping that hoop. They do not connect anything about sitting there and taking some timed test with any hope of life being any different so they do not give a rat's rear about it. Many of these kids will just get up and leave the room...sure, you sitting there in your nice safe house in your nice safe neighborhood with your nice safe neighbor kids may think...."Oh, that incompetant, uncaring teacher, she should stop him." Yeah, you go for that and see how well it turns out for you. I'm surprised that this district can find ANYONE who will even take a contract to teach there.

 

You and I and NO ONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD would be likely to be any more successful teaching these kids. We can't even begin to comprehend the horror that is there everyday lives and why they don't give a d*mn about school nor do their parents. Good luck, may the force be with you, I know how this will turn out and I don't need a crystal ball to see it coming. We'd all be MISERABLE failures by everyone else's standards. We'd be the incompetants that an ignorant bunch of lawyers want to sue for failure to do our jobs.

 

This battle can't be won in school. That has to happen at a grass roots level from the ground up and it's going to take the communities around Highland Park, the city of Detroit, and the state getting it's act together and tackling the true problems - poverty, violence, drugs, generational violence and illiteracy, and LACK OF HOPE THAT ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER. Then, just maybe, solve some of that mess, and the kids and their parents will care about whether or not their kid can read some ridiculous poem that means absolutely nothing to them...then maybe, just maybe they will care about a standardized test because they might connect the dots between point and A and point Z where Z ends with gainful employment and a chance to pursue "the American Dream". Until then, they have NO incentive to cooperate with the system.

 

Faith

 

 

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16552

 

They get plenty of money. They've missmanaged it. As one who lives in a city that's in recievership, I've seen firsthand that throwing more money at the problem doesn't solve it. (Our city actually re-elected a mayor who was being investigated by the FBI (and is now in prison) for his stealing from the city)

 

I don't know the answer. Part of the problem is the poverty/innercity mindset/society. Part of it is teachers and parents and administration. Par of it is setting national standards that take none of the local or personal issues into consideration. The whole thins is messed up and kids are the ones who suffer.

 

ETA- I'm not really disagreeing with your assesment of the culture these kids live in. One semester n college, I tried to teach phonics to children in New Orleans. I was totally in over my head. I had 3rd & 4th graders who didn't even know the alphabet. How can you possibly teacha group of 30 kids anything when they are that far behind already?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Scuff

[melmichigan]

Highland Park receives over $4,000 more per student than my local school district would if I sent them to school. In March they were given the equivalent of an additional $8,000 per student in hardship money. I can't remember what they were given last year. That just emphasizes how badly the money they were given was mismanaged. I don't think throwing more money at them will help at this point.

 

Part of the problem is the poverty/innercity mindset/society. Part of it is teachers and parents and administration. Par of it is setting national standards that take none of the local or personal issues into consideration.

 

:iagree:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This has been a fascinating thread. Thanks especially to those who live in the area and those who have been public school teachers.

 

I'm afraid I'm always going to be of two minds on this.

 

In the first place, once upon a time our schools managed to teach the 3R's to children of illiterate immigrants who worked around the clock. What was the secret? What can't we do now, that we used to do, to teach the children of uneducated people? Isn't that what school is for, to teach a child the necessary info and skills that he can't learn at home?

 

On the other hand, we must acknowledge that some people are trapped. Hungry, terrified, despairing people have a really hard time concentrating on math. That should be obvious to anyone. And poor people can't choose private school, and not everybody can or should homeschool. As long as we have horrible places to live, we will have generation after generation of uneducated people. Poverty and ignorance have always gone hand in hand, and always will. A school can't be that much of an oasis unless children are boarding there.

 

There's just so much that I don't understand about how we got here. I don't live in a place like Highlands Park, but I do live in a place where I can see two sides of life anytime I want. If I drive 20 minutes west, I can find beautiful, manicured lawns, well-kept town centers, and excellent schools. If I drive 20 minutes north, east, or south, I can drive into places where the schools just stink and the kids aren't safe walking home from them. Nor are they safe at home when they get there. Bad neighborhoods. Bad schools.

 

The gulf might as well be the Grand Canyon. As I said, my city is no Highlands Park, but I still can't fathom a person from Suburbia declaring that the children in Cityville have a civil right to be educated without acknowledging that the gangs, violence, and poverty might be serious contributors to the ignorance. You can't just drop a good school on people and think that will fix it all. You can't get all the children out of there and into good places, either.

 

To me some of the reasons for this today are poor curricula choices by the powers to be, lack of ability grouping, social promotion, and low expectations. Differentiation is a failure IMHO!! I have read of schools over the past 50 years or so choosing reading curricula that does not teach phonics strongly or at all in some cases. Reading strategies are over-emphasized which is a mistake too. I have heard of schools where spelling and grammar are not taught or if they are taught, then they are taught only in an inadequate manner. I also think dropping cursive has an impact on dumbing things down since IMO practicing cursive helps the students to focus and think better. Cursive coupled with copy work can also re-enforce spelling, grammar, and content.

 

I do not blame teachers per se but I do think that administrators and education schools who came up with fuzzy reading, fuzzy math, reliance on calculators, etc. are to blame. I think more education schools should emphasize content and direct instruction. I also think parents need to parent and encourage education. OTOH I cannot imagine how a kid gets out of school being unable to read. Reading should should be the primo goal IMO and focused on almost exclusively until a child gets it. Without reading it is hard to succeed in other subject areas.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Highland Park receives over $4,000 more per student than my local school district would if I sent them to school. In March they were given the equivalent of an additional $8,000 per student in hardship money. I can't remember what they were given last year. That just emphasizes how badly the money they were given was mismanaged. I don't think throwing more money at them will help at this point.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

:iagree:I tend to agree since schools all over are already spending oodles of money which I think is often wasted to a degree.

[Parrothead]

We need to correct a myth here. Michigan does not spend $12,000.00 per head to educate kids. Now, if you live in Traverse City, or Petoskey, or Charlevoix, or Grosse Pointe, or other neighborhoods with property values of such high caliber, then yeah, your school district is going to get that kind of money.

 

But, the bulk of funding is based on property taxes on residential and commercial properties with commercial paying A LOT. So, take a look at this neighborhood...half the buildings ought to be buldozed, there probably isn't a property in the whole dang area that's worth more than $50,000.00 and there are an awful lot of properties that the township will never collect any tax on at all! I mean, you can't draw blood from a turnip (as the old saying goes), and while they can put liens on these places for back taxes, it isn't as though they'll get a dime for them when they go up for auction. The drug trade and violence related to it is so intense in Highland Park who is going to buy it? Seriously, I'm not. You're not. Nobody is! The schools get very little in that area because there is very little to be collected in taxes. Fill out your income tax in Michigan, what do you do, you have to indicate your school district. How many people live in that area and have no income except public assistance? Who is paying taxes into the infrastructure, it sure as h&ll ain't the drug dealers, pimps, car thieves, and slum lords.

 

These kids do not have ANY of the tools for educational success when they arrive at school. Many of them can never be successful on a standardized test because the subject material is stacked against them. They live in the Detroit, they've never been to the zoo, they've never been outside the neighborhood, and they have no idea about a huge array of "assumed kids this age know this stuff because they've been exposed to lots of reading and of course mom and dad read to them when they were little and have books and pictures and maps and internet and......in the house" information asked about in the reading comprehension stories. Oh, now they could tell you the exact process to remove hub-caps off a Buick LaSabre stopped at a red light by some poor soul that got lost in the city and didn't know that in this neighborhood stop lights, stop signs, and yields could get you killed so YOU DO NOT STOP....forget the law, stay safe! Hey, these kids are street savvy....smarter than you or I and very adaptable. We wouldn't last a day in their world. But tests that talk about nice houses, decent food, playgrounds, gardens, museums, mom and dad taking you to the beach...what's a beach????? f If they hadn't skipped half the school days that year to take care of the baby while mom turned tricks to get grocery money, or clean up after alcoholic dad, then maybe they'd have heard what a beach was! Most of the content is beyond them, it's a fantasy. Some of them actually can read the stupid tests, they just have no intention of jumping that hoop. They do not connect anything about sitting there and taking some timed test with any hope of life being any different so they do not give a rat's rear about it. Many of these kids will just get up and leave the room...sure, you sitting there in your nice safe house in your nice safe neighborhood with your nice safe neighbor kids may think...."Oh, that incompetant, uncaring teacher, she should stop him." Yeah, you go for that and see how well it turns out for you. I'm surprised that this district can find ANYONE who will even take a contract to teach there.

 

You and I and NO ONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD would be likely to be any more successful teaching these kids. We can't even begin to comprehend the horror that is there everyday lives and why they don't give a d*mn about school nor do their parents. Good luck, may the force be with you, I know how this will turn out and I don't need a crystal ball to see it coming. We'd all be MISERABLE failures by everyone else's standards. We'd be the incompetants that an ignorant bunch of lawyers want to sue for failure to do our jobs.

 

This battle can't be won in school. That has to happen at a grass roots level from the ground up and it's going to take the communities around Highland Park, the city of Detroit, and the state getting it's act together and tackling the true problems - poverty, violence, drugs, generational violence and illiteracy, and LACK OF HOPE THAT ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER. Then, just maybe, solve some of that mess, and the kids and their parents will care about whether or not their kid can read some ridiculous poem that means absolutely nothing to them...then maybe, just maybe they will care about a standardized test because they might connect the dots between point and A and point Z where Z ends with gainful employment and a chance to pursue "the American Dream". Until then, they have NO incentive to cooperate with the system.

 

Faith

:iagree:I'm sitting here reading all the replies and realizing that this is a total failure from the top down. Highland Park and places like it need so much more than competent teachers and caring parents. The whole system is broken - from local and state government to civil services to education to... just everything.

[Parrothead]

I understand that, but then, how can they blame the school if they didn't do their job as parents??

Chances are they parents are just trying to survive themselves. That is all the "adults" know. In areas like this the average K'er belongs to a 16- or 17- year old single mother who may or may not know who the father is. Her mother very possibly is in her late 20s or very early 30s and is either addicted or turning tricks or dying of addiction or turning tricks.

 

For areas like this (and there are plenty of them in this country) the "job of the parents" is a fantasy.

[Parrothead]

I agree. We cannot make people want to pursue a better life, they have to do it themselves. There are many reasons it can be hard as heck, but none of those reasons are an excuse to not do it.

 

I get it. For many of them, their life sucks. Partly through their own stupid choices and partly because they are born into suffering the stupid choices of others such as their own parents or environment.

 

At some point though, we all have the responsibility to quit whining and do what it takes to change things.

 

Insanity is continuing to do what doesn't work while expecting different results.

 

It's really insane to do that and then whine that it is someone else's fault you didn't get a different result.

 

No one has a higher duty to love and provide for those kids than their parents.

 

And I don't blame people for getting out ASAP and not going back. Those type of environments are toxic.

But when there is no hope of getting out what is left. Survival in the only environment they know.

 

Who is going to go to bat for these people if not some organization like the ACLU? The ACLU is not my favorite organization by any means, but I'm glad someone at a national level is trying to take a stand for these souls.

[Caroline]

I wrote a long reply, but really, it was just what Faith said. These kids live in a war zone.

[Parrothead]

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16552

 

They get plenty of money. They've missmanaged it. As one who lives in a city that's in recievership, I've seen firsthand that throwing more money at the problem doesn't solve it. (Our city actually re-elected a mayor who was being investigated by the FBI (and is now in prison) for his stealing from the city)

 

I don't know the answer. Part of the problem is the poverty/innercity mindset/society. Part of it is teachers and parents and administration. Par of it is setting national standards that take none of the local or personal issues into consideration. The whole thins is messed up and kids are the ones who suffer.

 

ETA- I'm not really disagreeing with your assesment of the culture these kids live in. One semester n college, I tried to teach phonics to children in New Orleans. I was totally in over my head. I had 3rd & 4th graders who didn't even know the alphabet. How can you possibly teacha group of 30 kids anything when they are that far behind already?

By starting at the beginning and teaching them the alphabet. With that kind of attitude is it a wonder that inner city kids feel helpless and hopeless?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

We need to correct a myth here. Michigan does not spend $12,000.00 per head to educate kids. Now, if you live in Traverse City, or Petoskey, or Charlevoix, or Grosse Pointe, or other neighborhoods with property values of such high caliber, then yeah, your school district is going to get that kind of money.

 

But, the bulk of funding is based on property taxes on residential and commercial properties with commercial paying A LOT. So, take a look at this neighborhood...half the buildings ought to be buldozed, there probably isn't a property in the whole dang area that's worth more than $50,000.00 and there are an awful lot of properties that the township will never collect any tax on at all! I mean, you can't draw blood from a turnip (as the old saying goes), and while they can put liens on these places for back taxes, it isn't as though they'll get a dime for them when they go up for auction. The drug trade and violence related to it is so intense in Highland Park who is going to buy it? Seriously, I'm not. You're not. Nobody is! The schools get very little in that area because there is very little to be collected in taxes. Fill out your income tax in Michigan, what do you do, you have to indicate your school district. How many people live in that area and have no income except public assistance? Who is paying taxes into the infrastructure, it sure as h&ll ain't the drug dealers, pimps, car thieves, and slum lords.

 

These kids do not have ANY of the tools for educational success when they arrive at school. Many of them can never be successful on a standardized test because the subject material is stacked against them. They live in the Detroit, they've never been to the zoo, they've never been outside the neighborhood, and they have no idea about a huge array of "assumed kids this age know this stuff because they've been exposed to lots of reading and of course mom and dad read to them when they were little and have books and pictures and maps and internet and......in the house" information asked about in the reading comprehension stories. Oh, now they could tell you the exact process to remove hub-caps off a Buick LaSabre stopped at a red light by some poor soul that got lost in the city and didn't know that in this neighborhood stop lights, stop signs, and yields could get you killed so YOU DO NOT STOP....forget the law, stay safe! Hey, these kids are street savvy....smarter than you or I and very adaptable. We wouldn't last a day in their world. But tests that talk about nice houses, decent food, playgrounds, gardens, museums, mom and dad taking you to the beach...what's a beach????? f If they hadn't skipped half the school days that year to take care of the baby while mom turned tricks to get grocery money, or clean up after alcoholic dad, then maybe they'd have heard what a beach was! Most of the content is beyond them, it's a fantasy. Some of them actually can read the stupid tests, they just have no intention of jumping that hoop. They do not connect anything about sitting there and taking some timed test with any hope of life being any different so they do not give a rat's rear about it. Many of these kids will just get up and leave the room...sure, you sitting there in your nice safe house in your nice safe neighborhood with your nice safe neighbor kids may think...."Oh, that incompetant, uncaring teacher, she should stop him." Yeah, you go for that and see how well it turns out for you. I'm surprised that this district can find ANYONE who will even take a contract to teach there.

 

You and I and NO ONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD would be likely to be any more successful teaching these kids. We can't even begin to comprehend the horror that is there everyday lives and why they don't give a d*mn about school nor do their parents. Good luck, may the force be with you, I know how this will turn out and I don't need a crystal ball to see it coming. We'd all be MISERABLE failures by everyone else's standards. We'd be the incompetants that an ignorant bunch of lawyers want to sue for failure to do our jobs.

 

This battle can't be won in school. That has to happen at a grass roots level from the ground up and it's going to take the communities around Highland Park, the city of Detroit, and the state getting it's act together and tackling the true problems - poverty, violence, drugs, generational violence and illiteracy, and LACK OF HOPE THAT ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER. Then, just maybe, solve some of that mess, and the kids and their parents will care about whether or not their kid can read some ridiculous poem that means absolutely nothing to them...then maybe, just maybe they will care about a standardized test because they might connect the dots between point and A and point Z where Z ends with gainful employment and a chance to pursue "the American Dream". Until then, they have NO incentive to cooperate with the system.

 

Faith

 

:iagree:I also agree with this and that grassroots action is needed. OTOH I do not think our educational practices help at all:( I realize though that even with great educational practices that some kids will be unreachable due to horrific family conditions. I do agree with Bill Cosby about black grass roots action is needed.

[amey311]

A friend and I were talking about this basic idea the other day. It may be an element of "Waiting for Superman" since she had just seen it (but I haven't yet). She talked about how in some of these profoundly struggling areas with high drop out rates, they're basically becoming self-perpetuating islands.

 

I learn some basic academics, but drop out at 15 when I get pregnant.

My daughter learns some, and I can help her a little, but she also drops out at 15.

Her daughter learns less (and has even less help at home with a mom with several young children and a grandparent who might be some help, but she's also busy parenting and trying to work to feed what is possibly an extended family all living at home).

 

Now that's 3 generations who have dropped out, and probably haven't moved far from the same school district.

 

Add in other factors like being in "Food deserts" and it's easier to see how quickly things can change for the worse.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By starting at the beginning and teaching them the alphabet. With that kind of attitude is it a wonder that inner city kids feel helpless and hopeless?

 

Right but I think it is complicated by the fact that we do not have ability grouped classes and instead rely on differentiation to work. Second, our schools usually practice social promotion which is a dis-service. Third, lousy reading curricula that does not teach phonics properly are often used.

[ElizabethB]

Maybe the answer is sending in missionaries, but the leaders of the churches would need to get behind it.

 

:iagree:

 

There are people who are doing things, but more needs to be done. I worked with Hope Gardens, a mission of the Union Rescue Mission of Los Angeles. They provided 1 year of housing and education and a safe place for formerly homeless moms in the LA area. They had security and a gate guard to make sure the families stayed safe.

 

I am just getting started with helping Christian Activity Center, an organization that provides a safe place, sports, education, and health care for children in the E. St. Louis area.

 

These kids can learn.

 

Actually, my LA children learned faster than the middle class children I had previously worked with since:

 

 

1. I had discovered Webster's Speller just before starting to work with them

 

2. They didn't have any sight word guessing habits to overcome.

 

So, they had been in and out of schools and many of them were starting with a blank slate. With syllables, you can teach a few sounds at a time and build them up to 2+ syllable words very quickly.

 

I have to go get some things done, but will start a thread later for people who want to do something to fix the literacy portion of the problem...our nonprofit can donate a set of our DVDs to the first 10 groups or individuals willing to set up before and after grade level tests and have them played in inner city churches or other groups working with disadvantaged children or adults. Also, 70% of prisoners can't read if anyone is interested in using them in prison ministry.

Edited July 13, 2012 by ElizabethB

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

They should. Unfortunately, based on current outcomes, it seems that many don’t.

 

It doesn't actually take much money to fix the problem. If every teacher used Blend Phonics as it was meant to be taught without sight words, the failure rate for reading would most likely be around 5%. With Webster's Speller, 1 - 3%, but it would take some training first, Blend Phonics is easier to use and understand. You can print both of these programs out for free and teach from a white board or chalk board and be more effective than the expensive programs that are being used in schools today.

 

If these good, inexpensive methods were used up front, there would be more money available to assess and remediate the few failures that happened.

 

I don't blame teachers or parents or the children.

 

I think the Education Schools are to blame. If a standard course of education to become a teacher included a foreign language and a basic understanding of phonics and the linguistic structure of the English language, teachers would understand why and how to teach phonics.

 

The Education Schools should also teach the how and why of math, but that's a whole other thread...

 

:iagree:Amen:D

[Lovin Learnin]

By starting at the beginning and teaching them the alphabet. With that kind of attitude is it a wonder that inner city kids feel helpless and hopeless?

 

:iagree: We have given up on these children before we have even given them a chance. It's not all about ensuring homework gets done. What homework? There is a reason colleges take into account where you went to school when making admissions decisions. Universities regularly decline enrollment to top students from substandard schools. So even when the kid is doing right, going to school regularly and getting good grades (and you can assume there is a loving parent or two at home supporting them), they still don't cut the mustard because the level of instruction doesn't come close to that in more affluent schools. The best students are often years behind. Where's the motivation to make it out of the hood when the best students struggle to get out. And truthfully, if you can't get out, you can't return to help affect change.

 

Let's undereducate a child and then blame them for not ensuring a better education for their own children. Wow.

[QueenCat]

On the other hand, we must acknowledge that some people are trapped. Hungry, terrified, despairing people have a really hard time concentrating on math. That should be obvious to anyone. And poor people can't choose private school, and not everybody can or should homeschool. As long as we have horrible places to live, we will have generation after generation of uneducated people. Poverty and ignorance have always gone hand in hand, and always will. A school can't be that much of an oasis unless children are boarding there.

 

 

:iagree:So very true. It's scary how different life is WITHIN the United States. We do not need to travel to Africa to see scary situations. It's a vicious cycle that has taken decades to build.

[stripe]

Take a look at the Harlem Children's Zone.

http://www.hcz.org/

 

:iagree:So very true. It's scary how different life is WITHIN the United States. We do not need to travel to Africa to see scary situations. It's a vicious cycle that has taken decades to build.

 

Most African children consider it an honor to wear their school uniform, and are treated as special in their community when wearing it. Teachers are respected, and parents do not want their children to miss out on an education. Plenty of parents in poor countries work exceedingly hard to send their children to school.

[Tarreymere]

I used to think I lived in a developed country, but now every year that passes brings more evidence that I do not. This is what a post-industrial nation in denial looks like as it decays. We don't need an apocalypse, we seem to be doing just fine destroying ourselves without one. Illiterate, nearly feral children a norm in a major US city and we can't figure out how to fix that but we can still send money and soldiers overseas to 'fix' other countries. Who is supposed to come and 'fix' us?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Rainefox

[QueenCat]

Most African children consider it an honor to wear their school uniform, and are treated as special in their community when wearing it. Teachers are respected, and parents do not want their children to miss out on an education. Plenty of parents in poor countries work exceedingly hard to send their children to school.

 

I actually do know that.... Africa is a big continent, I should have been more specific.

[Caroline]

I used to think I lived in a developed country, but now every year that passes brings more evidence that I do not. This is what a post-industrial nation in denial looks like as it decays. We don't need an apocalypse, we seem to be doing just fine destroying ourselves without one. Illiterate, nearly feral children a norm in a major US city and we can't figure out how to fix that but we can still send money and soldiers overseas to 'fix' other countries. Who is supposed to come and 'fix' us?

 

I think it has never not been the norm for us to have children living in these conditions. It is growing right now, but we have always had children living in these conditions. We just ignored them in the past.

 

I am by no stretch of the imagination a fan of NCLB. However, I do think it has brought to our attention that we are failing these children in a huge way. Even in good schools, poor and minority children are not getting the education they need. I teach at what can only be called a failing school. However, we have a much higher percent of minorities and economically disadvantaged kids passing and graduating and going to college than the great schools. Even with. Using these kids out of the poverty to the rich schools, they don't succeed, and most end up back in the failing schools. Why? Because we want to teach these kids. The ones that want to learn get 5s on AP exams, graduate in four years, and are successful in college.

 

But it is hard to want to learn when you live in survival mode. And that is how these kids live.

 

ETA: I don't teach in as bad of conditions as is being discussed here. I do have some kids who do live like that. I do teach at a school with close to 100% free lunch. But, it isn't as bad as what we are talking about.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Caroline

[jennynd]

Chances are they parents are just trying to survive themselves. That is all the "adults" know. In areas like this the average K'er belongs to a 16- or 17- year old single mother who may or may not know who the father is. Her mother very possibly is in her late 20s or very early 30s and is either addicted or turning tricks or dying of addiction or turning tricks.

 

For areas like this (and there are plenty of them in this country) the "job of the parents" is a fantasy.

 

 

People probably gonna throw eggs at me by saying what I am about to say...

 

If that 's the case. Why did they have kids? And why the government allow them to be responsible of the kids if those parents are apparently neglect their children?

[stripe]

I actually do know that.... Africa is a big continent, I should have been more specific.

 

I wasn't really trying to inform you, just thinking about it. When or how does education stop being seen as a way out and become irrelevant?

 

It's very presumptuous to make this about teen pregnancy or single motherhood, or whatever, as if teen moms don't care, and therefore we shouldn't either -- it is normal for teen moms to care about their kids, and as a society, we definitely need to worry about each and every child, even more so for the ones whose parents are not strong or helpful. I think examples of positive and productive outreach and education to the moms -- including encouraging them to go back to school and participate in their education -- would be helpful. That's why I suggested looking at the Harlem Children's Zone. I think many teen moms are receptive to help, but rarely does anyone offering tangible help on some of these issues, like life guidance, budgeting, cooking/diet, and so forth.

[VeritasMama]

I mentioned this in my other post, but I'll make a point here since no one picked up on it. Here is a link to demographics for teachers in the US in 2011

http://www.ncei.com/Profile_Teachers_US_2011.pdf

 

84 percent were women. 84 percent were white. They don't list economics, but I'm guessing they are mostly middle class or higher. You throw them into inner city and they don't have a clue how to relate or teach. That isn't how they have been prepared.

 

I went to college 12 years ago, and though I was not in an "inner city" type of environment, the issues facing what you would consider "inner city" were well addressed in my classes.

 

Those who go to work for an inner city school do have some idea what they are getting into, they are usually on a mission. They may not be able to anticipate how difficult it will be, but they are not as naive as your post implies.

 

As ElizabethB's previous posts have explained, all children can be taught to read adequately, if not fluently, with intensive phonics instruction, no matter what their situation is. This is the type of instruction homeschoolers often take for granted, as they don't realize just how many schools use really terrible language arts curriculum, and many teachers haven't been exposed to any other methods other than "whole language."

 

When we covered phonics in college, it was basically whole language instruction with a few spelling rules thrown in and called "phonics." It wasn't until I started working at a private school that implemented an intensive phonics program (Recipe for Reading, based on Orton- Gillingham) that I truly learned about phonics and could identify the differences between the two approaches. The kids at our school all excelled, even the ones who had been previously diagnosed with dyslexia. Once these kids start reading fluently and independently, they take off in all other areas. When kids enjoy reading and feel successful, they will be eager for more learning.

 

The 3 R's can be taught to anyone, you just need the appropriate methods, which are not being used in these schools. Parents need to demand this type of education in the first place. However, the system makes it hard for parents to challenge the curriculum being used, they have removed parental control over what is taught. The whole system really is broken.

 

ETA: These types of socio-economic problems are not only confined to the inner cities anymore. I lived in a small town (about 2500 people, mostly white) where the high school was a failing school. The drop out rate was very high, kids being expelled for drugs every month, and a community of parents who really didn't value education in the first place. The drug use in that county was a real problem, mostly presription drug abuse and meth. So many of these "white women" you are talking about have seen the challenges outside the inner city as well.

Edited July 13, 2012 by VeritasMama

[QueenCat]

I wasn't really trying to inform you, just thinking about it. When or how does education stop being seen as a way out and become irrelevant?

 

It's very presumptuous to make this about teen pregnancy or single motherhood, or whatever, as if teen moms don't care, and therefore we shouldn't either -- it is normal for teen moms to care about their kids, and as a society, we definitely need to worry about each and every child, even more so for the ones whose parents are not strong or helpful. I think examples of positive and productive outreach and education to the moms -- including encouraging them to go back to school and participate in their education -- would be helpful. That's why I suggested looking at the Harlem Children's Zone. I think many teen moms are receptive to help, but rarely does anyone offering tangible help on some of these issues, like life guidance, budgeting, cooking/diet, and so forth.

 

I do get what your saying... the real issue is how to broaden programs like they use in HCZ (I have seen info on this before) to other areas, since it is working. I have yet to a see a teen mom that I personally know have an "I don't care" attitude. Their views might not be the same as mine, but they do care about their kids. They might not know "how" to handle the world they live in though, and that, I think, is a big part of the problem, which HCZ seems to address.

[QueenCat]

I think it has never not been the norm for us to have children living in these conditions. It is growing right now, but we have always had children living in these conditions. We just ignored them in the past.

 

It took me leaving the "utopic" city you and I both graduated from high school in to learn how different things are in different places in our country, or even our state, since my first move after high school was to St. Mary's College, a different environment (but nothing like the inner city of Detroit), just two hours away from where I grew up. And then I headed to Atlanta... where I started to really grow up and learn more about our world.

[Scuff]

By starting at the beginning and teaching them the alphabet. With that kind of attitude is it a wonder that inner city kids feel helpless and hopeless?

 

 

 

I'm not saying it's impossible. And that's what we did- returned to the alphabet. But we were a mission with an after school program, not teachers of a school. So we had less kids to work with and didn't have to follow national standards. I can't imagine how difficult it must be as a classroom teacher trying to teach a science curriculum to 4th graders who don't know the alphabet. Not said as an excuse, just with compassion.

[Catherine]

when their parents can't or won't do it.

 

My parents did not advocate for me when I was growing up. Neither did my husband's. I suspect very few parents in that situation have the wherewithal, persistence, time, and confidence, to do such a thing. If they did, then why don't we see them? If it's as simple as getting scholarship to the "best private school in town" then why does 99% of the population there not do that? You are missing the other factors with your simplistic assessment of a complicated and deeply entrenched problem.

 

Perhaps the ACLU is misguided in its attempt to improve the desperate situation of these kids, but I'd hardly consider it wrong to try.

[Parrothead]

People probably gonna throw eggs at me by saying what I am about to say...

 

If that 's the case. Why did they have kids? And why the government allow them to be responsible of the kids if those parents are apparently neglect their children?

Betcha most of the kids weren't planned. Or if they were planned it was to enable to mother to get more welfare money. These are the types places generational welfare exists.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Parrothead

[Bang!Zoom!]

By September, Parker is going to pass a charter corporation to take over these four schools. Budget problem is "solved." Ya, go Synder! :glare:

 

The control of the money is going to be taken away from the local school boards there.

 

This whole pattern is going to spread through the region of Detroit. Highland Park is just the first on the block.

 

God help the new teachers going in. They are going to be asked to to do it on less money.

 

California has a similar program in place for failing PS districts, but it's parent initiated- this one is State initiated with some big corporations ready to pounce in place.

 

There's going to be some big money moving around in there come September.

[SKL]

As long as I have a legal duty to pay taxes that fund the public schools, the public schools have a duty to provide my kid a basic education IMO.

 

Now if they can prove my kid's faulty wiring is the problem, that might change things. There are some people who cannot learn to read.

 

If a school system insists it is not responsible for results after taking all that money and having physical custody of kids 7 hours per day, the schools need to be closed or sold to private companies. Parents can use the saved $12,000 per year to buy their kids a few books and do the job themselves. (I've taught all kinds of kids to read without a "reading curriculum" or teaching degree, or janitor or lunch lady, or principal or superintendent. But that $12,000 would have come in handy when I needed to pay for ophthalmology, vision therapy, and so on.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

But SKL, people who can't read, write, or figure cannot homeschool their children. It wouldn't do a lick of good to give them a stack of books and $12,000.

[SKL]

But SKL, people who can't read, write, or figure cannot homeschool their children. It wouldn't do a lick of good to give them a stack of books and $12,000.

 

But they could pay tuition and send them to a halfway decent school - on a lot less.

 

Besides, I don't buy into the "parents have no way or motive to help" mentality. That is probably true for a small minority only. Of course poor parents want their kids to learn in school. And how can we fault parents for assuming that their kid is actually learning something while sitting in school for 35 hours per week, surrounded by books and being talked at by college-educated folk? A normal child would have to be physically prevented from learning the basics in that environment. But if you take away compulsory brick-and-mortar school and put the burden on the parents, they'd find someone to teach or they'd teach themselves. Heck, even a small library of DVDs would get the basics into most kids. I know of a guy (minority race in a ghetto) whose 4yo learned to read by watching movies with the subtitles turned on. You can buy a portable DVD player (or laptop computer) and borrow DVDs from the library for a lot less than $12,000. Shoot.

 

But of course, most parents would send their kids to a private school or figure out how to homeschool. Just like most parents manage to feed their kids even though they may not be educated chef-nutritionists.

 

Yes, a few kids might be worse off, but wouldn't the community as a whole be better off? And there could be targeted solutions for the few kids who needed them.

 

I actually don't believe the public schools should all be dismantled, but I think there should be a real threat of it to enforce accountability by school leadership and personnel.

[labst60]

"I am a former teacher.

 

Reading instruction is not a civil right, just as health care is not a civil right. It is a service provided by a professional in an exchange of goods, your child recieves instruction the teacher recieves a wage.

 

It is the parents responsibility to educate their child, just as it is their responsibility to provide adequate care. It is not the responsibility of the government. Whether they choose to send their child to public school, private school, or homeschool, it is still the responsibility of the parent, it is still a choice. The method chosen by the parent may fail, but it is up to the parent to rectify the situation. If the schools are not teaching the children appropriately, the parents need to step in and make the necessary reforms. They need to either push the school to make the necessary changes, or they need to teach the child to read themselves.

 

The problem is too much government control, parents have been content to hand over the care and education of their children to the so called experts. The willingness of parents to give up their parental responsibilities in order to recieve free education for their children is to blame, as government control in schools always has the same result. I'm not saying public schools are bad, I am saying public schools where the parents and local community have given up control are bad. In many districts, parents have little if any control over the curriculum, and even less control over school policies. That is why so many parents resort to suing the school district, it is often the only avenue available to them to have the problems addressed, as administrators often stonewall them. Most of the parents are simply too lazy to take an interest, they prefer to let the experts worry about it for them, and that makes it possible for the parents who do care to be treated in this manner.

 

Until public schools have to operate like the private sector, that is until they have to cater to the whims and desires of their customers, you won't see results. As long as they are guaranteed students, guaranteed jobs, and guaranteed funding, there will be no real changes in these failing school districts. School vouchers are not a silver bullet by any means, but they could go a long way to creating some of the circumstances I have described. So, why are school vouchers and charter schools so villified? Unions.

 

I would also like to add that there are also wonderful public schools with wonderful teachers out there, and there are communities where the parents are heavily involved. I'm simply addressing the districts where this is not the case and where the system is obviously broken.

 

I also realize I am preaching to the choir here, just needed to rant. All my teacher friends were outraged by Waiting for Superman, but I thought it was pretty much right on the money. "

 

I am not a former teacher - but other than that - I couldn't agree more with every single point. It is the PARENT'S (imo, God-given) RESPONSIBILITY to ensure their children get an education. Public schools are one avenue - if that isn't workign for your child, you need to assess your options and make changes where necessary - even if it is mom and child working 2 hours every night - basic literacy can be achieved in most students.

[Caroline]

 

Just like most parents manage to feed their kids even though they may not be educated chef-nutritionists.

 

 

 

No, these kids do NOT get properly fed. They are almost all on free (not reduced) lunch. The two meals they get at school a day during the school year are all the food they get. We send kids home with backpacks of food for the weekends because otherwise they don't eat. Period.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By September, Parker is going to pass a charter corporation to take over these four schools. Budget problem is "solved." Ya, go Synder! :glare:

 

The control of the money is going to be taken away from the local school boards there.

 

This whole pattern is going to spread through the region of Detroit. Highland Park is just the first on the block.

 

God help the new teachers going in. They are going to be asked to to do it on less money.

 

California has a similar program in place for failing PS districts, but it's parent initiated- this one is State initiated with some big corporations ready to pounce in place.

 

There's going to be some big money moving around in there come September.

 

I do not know all of the particulars but where I live there are tons of failing schools and charters are the only godsend here just about. It seems to me sometimes the local school boards fail miserably so to me it seems a good thing to get someone else to manage the schools as long as their are reasonable regulations in place.

Edited July 13, 2012 by priscilla

[SKL]

No, these kids do NOT get properly fed. They are almost all on free (not reduced) lunch. The two meals they get at school a day during the school year are all the food they get. We send kids home with backpacks of food for the weekends because otherwise they don't eat. Period.

 

I'll bet they managed to get fed before the free breakfast, lunch, and backpack era.

 

With half of America on food stamps and kids not getting fed, I guess it goes without saying that this is a criminal matter, not an educational one.

[LibraryLover]

nm politics

Edited July 13, 2012 by LibraryLover

[justamouse]

I do not know all of the particulars but where I live there are tons of failing schools and charters are the only godsend here just about. It seems to me sometimes the local school boards fail miserably so I to me it seems a good thing to get someone else to manage the schools as long as their are reasonable regulations in place.

 

Same has happened around here. Some really bad schools ended up emptying out because their parents sent them to charters.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I do not know all of the particulars but where I live there are tons of failing schools and charters are the only godsend here just about. It seems to me sometimes the local school boards fail miserably so I to me it seems a good thing to get someone else to manage the schools as long as their are reasonable regulations in place.

 

 

I checked the relationships of Parker and the lawyers. It's going to be like the fourth of July for malfeasance. That's one big machine she's up against, but...the local par for course doesn't hold the pen that signs the contracts.

 

The kids are the ones that are going to be the flotsam in all this.

 

Absolutely heartbreaking, but it's a ray of hope.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

To say that is a 'poverty-striken' area is an understadment,to say the least. Generational poverty, poor food supply, toxic homes, lead paint, parents who experienced the same, andon and on. We're created this. We are a nation who looks away, runs away, and leaves the poorest to fend for themselves. Food stamps for peanut butter and Lucky Charms isn't going to change this.

 

We also blame parents who proably have learnng challenges themselves, and born of parents breathing in asbestos and lead paint, and god knows what else.

 

As a nation, we allowed this to happen. When some of us complain, we get the boot strap lecture, the 'why shold my taxes pay for people who 'won't work", and the inevitable arguments about how poor people buy steak and birthday cake with their food stamps.

 

Povertry = toxins = malnutrition= generational congnitive delays=despair and substance abuse. Then we act suprised at the outcome?

 

I'm trying to find a minute to study Johnson's war on poverty. I think we may be looking at the end result of that plan, but I don't know enough about it yet.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Tibbie, that area has little to do with Johnson, but it has everything to do with the collapse of the auto industry, same as Flint.

 

The houses you see in Highland Park were not constructed or owned by highly educated people of the 50's. Those were general factory workers with very general educations, and it's a safe bet to say that they were not tipping the scales on literacy themselves nor was it a priority. A strong back was a priority.

 

Major, major broad brush here, take it for what it's worth, but when you get digging into the metro area, you'll hear study after study project that over half of Detroit is functionally illiterate.

[stripe]

No, these kids do NOT get properly fed. They are almost all on free (not reduced) lunch. The two meals they get at school a day during the school year are all the food they get. We send kids home with backpacks of food for the weekends because otherwise they don't eat. Period.

 

In my experience almost no one knows how to eat, much less cook, reasonably nutritious meals anymore.

 

I do not think it's because people get foodstamps. At all. People don't know. This includes middle class people. It's just that poor people can't afford to eat out, or if they do (dollar menu), it's really unhealthy.

 

This is an(other) area where immigrants have a huge advantage : They know how to cook cheap, nutritious food from scratch.

 

I saw a survey that 28% of Americans don't know how to cook, but I think it's way higher. More than half of people say they know less about cooking than their mothers or grandmas.

 

Did you know that lower income people hold organic food in higher esteem than the wealthy do? A lot of poor people want to eat fresh produce but have really limited options, especially when it's expensive.

[rlugbill]

For some reason, legally, you can't sue schools for educational malpractice. There is no such thing in this country. You can sue a doctor, lawyer, or other professional for malpractice, but not a school or teacher.

 

And, we have publicly funded, free education in this country. The government has a near monopoly on education, except for the private and parochial schools and homeschoolers.

 

This sort of situation without any real accountability on the part of the schools, either to the courts or to the parents has created the public school system we have in this country. Particularly in low-income areas, our schools are often worse than schools in developing countries.

 

Of course, there is an upside to this for us homeschoolers. Because it creates conditions where homeschooling is becoming more popular. Taiwan and Japan don't have so many homeschoolers and it may be partly because parents there don't feel that they have to flee their local school.

 

If you lived in inner-city Detroit, it would be almost child neglect to send your child to those schools. So, I can understand why parents in those types of places would want to sue someone. If you put your kids in those schools, there is a high likelihood they will come out as criminals or drug addicts with few prospects in life.

 

And those parents don't have the money to move to a better school system. Middle class people can move to a better district, but if you are poor, you don't have that choice. You are stuck, unless you homeschool or you can get your child into a charter school.

 

Rather than suing, however, I would like to see more of those inner-city parents homeschool their children. They might be struggling to get by, and need to work, but they might have a relative who could homeschool their children so they wouldn't have to go to the inner-city schools. This could make a huge difference in their children's lives.

[Caroline]

I didn't say foodstamps cause people not to cook. I said the kids we are discussing don't eat when they go home. They don't.

 

In my experience almost no one knows how to eat, much less cook, reasonably nutritious meals anymore.

 

I do not think it's because people get foodstamps. At all. People don't know. This includes middle class people. It's just that poor people can't afford to eat out, or if they do (dollar menu), it's really unhealthy.

 

This is an(other) area where immigrants have a huge advantage : They know how to cook cheap, nutritious food from scratch.

 

I saw a survey that 28% of Americans don't know how to cook, but I think it's way higher. More than half of people say they know less about cooking than their mothers or grandmas.

 

Did you know that lower income people hold organic food in higher esteem than the wealthy do? A lot of poor people want to eat fresh produce but have really limited options, especially when it's expensive.

[Mama Geek]

You know instead of sitting here talking about it why not send this organization some money or volunteer your time? This site is for Detroit but they have places all over the US as well.

 

http://proliteracydetroit.org/

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I didn't say foodstamps cause people not to cook. I said the kids we are discussing don't eat when they go home. They don't.

 

To me, I do not think Stripe is saying food stamps cause people to not be able to cook. I think is more of the American culture today in general does not know how to make a lot of food from scratch:( FTR, I am all for food stamps and social safety nets as well as for pulling one's self up by the bootstraps:)

[justamouse]

To say that is a 'poverty-striken' area is an understadment,to say the least. Generational poverty, poor food supply, toxic homes, lead paint, parents who experienced the same, andon and on. We're created this. We are a nation who looks away, runs away, and leaves the poorest to fend for themselves. Food stamps for peanut butter and Lucky Charms isn't going to change this.

 

We also blame parents who proably have learnng challenges themselves, and born of parents breathing in asbestos and lead paint, and god knows what else.

 

As a nation, we allowed this to happen. When some of us complain, we get the boot strap lecture, the 'why shold my taxes pay for people who 'won't work", and the inevitable arguments about how poor people buy steak and birthday cake with their food stamps.

 

Povertry = toxins = malnutrition= generational congnitive delays=despair and substance abuse. Then we act suprised at the outcome?

 

 

I don't disagree with you, but I also don't think throwing good money after bad will fix this. That's a failed experiment, too. Our 'Abbot' district in Camden NJ hasn't fixed anything, and it's not only wrecking our state economy, but the area has gotten worse. Meanwhile those schools have put on sports fields with all the bells and whistles on TOP of their inner city buildings (Cha-ching!) and they're still the worst schools in the state.

(Abbot districts have tax money funneled to them from more affluent areas of the state, to balance out the funds, so to speak)

 

Poverty of this depth isn't just a lack of $, it's a spiritual deprivation of the most essential kind. I'm not talking about religion here I'm talking about the basic hope to want something out of life other than survival. They have consigned their lives to living, breathing, and existing because they can't see how they can have anything more.

 

And, this is going to be scorned, but the numbers don't lie. AA abort their babies at a 5x the national rate. (Thank you Sanger, you got what you wanted). Modern thought would say, "Of course! Why would they want to bring their children up in such poverty?" but that method of raising their living standard doesn't seem to be working. What it does show is the depth of their lack of hope.

 

It's going to take a long, focused time in the inner cities changing those people to get them to the point where they can make up a cohesive, productive, positive family unit that enables children to thrive. Throwing $ at a school isn't going to fix it. Those schools need to be closed, and those kids need to be able to take vouchers to get into better schools, charter schools, what have you. And not even that will fix it.

 

I think the problem has been we've thrown money at it without rolling our shirt sleeves up.

Edited July 13, 2012 by justamouse

[Bang!Zoom!]

That organization reaches into Urban Detroit and Hamtramack as well.

 

My bff, her husband, when he went to do any work in Hamtramack...he received what equates to "combat pay" scale on the job due to the threat there. Folks in the union had the right to decline to work in the area it's so violent.

 

From the Literacy site, some stats (a little dated really, 1998)

 

The Scope of Functional Illiteracy in Detroit, Highland Park, and Hamtramck, Michigan Adult literacy estimates, complied by the National Institute for Literacy in 1998, for Detroit , Highland Park , and Hamtramck , defined illiteracy rates, among adults as follows: Detroit 47%, Highland Park , 56%, Hamtramck 38%. The social and economic impact of illiteracy in these cities is staggering.

 

I have no idea what scale they used to define "functionally illiterate" for the study, but it would be interesting to know what percent were identified as purely illiterate.

 

The mixture of ethnic groups (which is HUGE) there feed into this also if they are weighting this on the English language as well.

[angela in ohio]

I haven't read all of the posts...

 

The school district *receives* a certain amount of money per student. They don't *spend* an equal amount per student. That is an important distinction, first. And the amount isn't set in the state; our local school district gets about $7,000 per student, for example. Michigan passed a law that mandates a more equitable distribution between wealthy and poor districts; it has made little difference. Money is not the answer.

 

My mother was raised in Highland Park. My grandma lived there until she passed. It's a rough area. The schools are not... they are not.... able to "fix" what is going on there.

 

My dh taught in a school in an inner city school sytem for a few years. I see other posters have covered the fact that many kiddos' only food comes from the two meals at school (one poor boy lost 11 lbs over Christmas break!) They also stay up late into the night watching TV or movies, they sometimes aren't allowed in their homes until bedtime, they don't own books, and on and on. Not sure how to phrase this, but there was definite pressure, also, to not excel and betray their race, if that makes sense. Kids "acting smart" were beat up.

 

And then we blame the schools. :confused:

 

I saw a few posts about churches. Yes, research has shown that church programs in inner city schools are incredibly effective. Pastors hold students accountable, teach parents the ins and outs of education, provide tutors, etc. There are other programs, too, providing after-school activities, staffed by volunteers, college students, teachers, etc.

 

Another research-proven effective strategy is highly trained teachers working in these schools. But we're not allowed to talk about whether teachers are "highly trained" or not. :glare: And you can't pay this teacher more than that teacher. And the teacher's colleges aren't teaching the strategies necessary to teach these students: they are teaching the latest, greatest experimental method and ... um... other things. Done well, in four years of college classes, we could turn out some *great* teachers who might be able to battle these students' issues a bit better, but we won't. And it's not like Highland Park gets to hire the pick of teachers, either.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

In my experience almost no one knows how to eat, much less cook, reasonably nutritious meals anymore.

 

I do not think it's because people get foodstamps. At all. People don't know. This includes middle class people. It's just that poor people can't afford to eat out, or if they do (dollar menu), it's really unhealthy.

 

This is an(other) area where immigrants have a huge advantage : They know how to cook cheap, nutritious food from scratch.

 

I saw a survey that 28% of Americans don't know how to cook, but I think it's way higher. More than half of people say they know less about cooking than their mothers or grandmas.

 

Did you know that lower income people hold organic food in higher esteem than the wealthy do? A lot of poor people want to eat fresh produce but have really limited options, especially when it's expensive.

 

Correct, and those on food stamps in inner cities have few options for fresh produce, and even those willing to cook healthier simply don't have access to what they need in the "food deserts".