ACLU and children's "right to literacy" in Michigan-- your thoughts?

[melmichigan]

Take a look at the Harlem Children's Zone.

http://www.hcz.org/

 

Thank you, I was trying to reference that earlier but couldn't find it.

 

This is what needs to be done on a much broader scale.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I haven't read all of the posts...

 

The school district *receives* a certain amount of money per student. They don't *spend* an equal amount per student. That is an important distinction, first. And the amount isn't set in the state; our local school district gets about $7,000 per student, for example. Michigan passed a law that mandates a more equitable distribution between wealthy and poor districts; it has made little difference. Money is not the answer.

 

My mother was raised in Highland Park. My grandma lived there until she passed. It's a rough area. The schools are not... they are not.... able to "fix" what is going on there.

 

My dh taught in a school in an inner city school sytem for a few years. I see other posters have covered the fact that many kiddos' only food comes from the two meals at school (one poor boy lost 11 lbs over Christmas break!) They also stay up late into the night watching TV or movies, they sometimes aren't allowed in their homes until bedtime, they don't own books, and on and on. Not sure how to phrase this, but there was definite pressure, also, to not excel and betray their race, if that makes sense. Kids "acting smart" were beat up.

 

And then we blame the schools. :confused:

 

I saw a few posts about churches. Yes, research has shown that church programs in inner city schools are incredibly effective. Pastors hold students accountable, teach parents the ins and outs of education, provide tutors, etc. There are other programs, too, providing after-school activities, staffed by volunteers, college students, teachers, etc.

 

Another research-proven effective strategy is highly trained teachers working in these schools. But we're not allowed to talk about whether teachers are "highly trained" or not. :glare: And you can't pay this teacher more than that teacher. And the teacher's colleges aren't teaching the strategies necessary to teach these students: they are teaching the latest, greatest experimental method and ... um... other things. Done well, in four years of college classes, we could turn out some *great* teachers who might be able to battle these students' issues a bit better, but we won't. And it's not like Highland Park gets to hire the pick of teachers, either.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say (really, really agree with some of it), but I differ a bit on the teacher training. The most recent research I saw (study by a Harvard Economics prof - completely blanking on his name) didn't find teacher training mattered as much as accountability for teachers, students, and parents - especially for students. Simply holding teachers accountable will not work without the support network around the students.

My sister is leaving teaching after 14 years. She has a MA in special education, and also holds a law degree. She practiced law until having kids, and then went back to school to finish her MA (her BA was in education) in special ed and went into teaching. She has been highly evaluated, and considered an exemplary teacher, but has become frustrated with those wanting to tie her pay/evaluations to student performance on standardized tests. She taught at a very low income school, and has a great a heart for the kids. But as she pointed out, holding her accountable for a child's test scores when he may not have been fed dinner or breakfast, or was locked out of the house because mom brought a new boyfriend home, or stayed up until 1 watching TV because mom didn't come home puts an expectation on teachers that is simply unrealistic.

 

The Harvard prof I mentioned above made a statement I thought was interesting - we test at our best schools too much, and at our poor performing schools too infrequently. His point was that we waste time on standardized tests in good schools to tell us students are learning (or at least achieving high scores), but then get the results for poor performing schools at the end of the year to tell us what we know - the students aren't learning. He found that charter schools that did frequent school wide skills testing, and then analyzed the results to determine what needed to be covered again immediately, saw a remarkable turn around in student learning.

[Bang!Zoom!]

When a charter is organized, part of the charter system is extensive testing as a built in prerequisite. They work as checkpoints in continuing the terms of the contract.

 

It's not that charters do a "better" job than anyone else in testing schedules, it's more to do that they are required to do it in order to keep the charter.

 

Whatever corporation takes over the Highland area....will have to report with great frequency test results. Testing takes time out of the school day. Teaching testing skills takes time out of the school day. You can see the Catch 22 here.

 

These kids are going to have their days full of testing to meet charter standards.

 

There can be, and is sometimes, an element of smoke and mirrors on this facet of charters. Let's hope for the kids of Highland Park it all stays above board....

[LibraryLover]

Wow, do i have Autocorrect challenges! ;)

 

This area is among the poorest of the poor of the US.

 

Education might not be a constitutional right, but it's not that the ACLU doesn't have good case. A reading of Brown v. Board of Ed very carefully states that schools are essential to the development of good citizens ( which I read as contributing and educated citizens) . Brown v. board Ed says schools are to be held to a *higher* scrutiny than business.

 

We cant really be shocked that this happening in one of the most toxic and poor ares of the US? Given the generational

malnutrition, lead paint, asbestos and other pollutants, you're certainly going to see a significant degree of learning disabilities/challenges. The boy profiled clearly has learning challenges. Writing a d instead if a b? Classic processing/dyslexia issues --which takes serious money to address well.

 

We know that intense ABA services for young children run far past 12k a year.

Edited July 13, 2012 by LibraryLover

[ElizabethB]

I've started a thread with ideas to fix the literacy problem. Anyone motivated to quit fuming and start fixing can join in and hopefully start to do some of the things listed or add in their own ideas or things that they have done. The more the merrier!

[Parrothead]

This area is among the poorest of the poor of the US.

 

Education might not be a constitutional right, but it's not that the ACLU doesn't have good case. A reading of Brown v. Board of Ed very carefully states that schools are essential to the development of good citizens ( which I read as contributing and educated citizens) . Therefore schools are to be held to a higher scrutiny that a business.

 

We're shoeless that one of the most toxic and poor ares of the US is suggesting this way. Give the generational

malnutrition, lead paint, asbestos and other pollutants, you're certainly going to see a significant degree of learning disabilities/challenges. The boy profiled clearly has learning challenges. Writing a d instead if a b? Classic processing/dyslexia issues --which takes serious money to address well.

 

We know that intense ABA services for young children run far past 12k a year.

It could very well be a dyslexia situation or it could be nothing more than the young man has nothing but a 1st grade handwriting ability.

[justamouse]

When a charter is organized, part of the charter system is extensive testing as a built in prerequisite. They work as checkpoints in continuing the terms of the contract.

 

It's not that charters do a "better" job than anyone else in testing schedules, it's more to do that they are required to do it in order to keep the charter.

 

Whatever corporation takes over the Highland area....will have to report with great frequency test results. Testing takes time out of the school day. Teaching testing skills takes time out of the school day. You can see the Catch 22 here.

 

These kids are going to have their days full of testing to meet charter standards.

 

There can be, and is sometimes, an element of smoke and mirrors on this facet of charters. Let's hope for the kids of Highland Park it all stays above board....

 

From what I know of when my son attended a charter, they took no more tests than the regular PS did, and they scored far higher. That was a middle school charter, though.

 

For public school, I don't think we're ever going to get away from some form of testing to qualify effectiveness. I do agree that we have far too much testing at this point, though.

[LibraryLover]

It could very well be a dyslexia situation or it could be nothing more than the young man has nothing but a 1st grade handwriting ability.

 

At age 14, and given the other errors, I would say in all probability it's an issue greater than poor handwriting. I'd be less concerned if the student was 8.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Charter schools are public schools, and have to apply all legislation areas just like a in-district traditional PS would....therefore, the same state testing requirements....

 

BUT

 

The sponsoring institutions/corporation must first have an approved business plan, and I suspect very highly, that constant testing reports are going to be a big deal with Highland Park.

 

Doesn't mean the quality or results of the testing will be valid, it just means data that's required.

 

Many charters have failed this benchmark and it's a real sore point with the administration that does the oversight.

 

Google: charter school testing scandal

 

There's some pretty :001_huh: stuff out there. Once in a while, a whistle-blower will talk about it, here's an example.

 

(I'm pro-charter btw, I do not feel this is the baseline situation for charters..)

 

http://dianeravitch.net/2012/06/15/a-major-charter-school-scandal/

[LibraryLover]

I deleted this and tried again with more clarity.

 

As for money, ABA costs a fortune, and the ABA people with with children in their homes, without the overhead of buildings, maintenance etc

 

Money makes a big difference. When the kids in Newton, MA get a state-of-the-art multimillion dollars high school with labs that rival most colleges, one isn't going to say the money doesn't matter. Healthy well- fed children, with healthy parents, living in a non ( less) toxic environment will give you better better educated children who get more of their special Ed needs met.

We'd be surprised if these children didn't do far better academically.

 

If you look at what the Michigan school district pays per child per year, ad compared to someplace like Newton or Weston, one might be surprised.

 

A private school -- Exeter Academy, for instance, charges 0ver 34k year for a day student. It takes serious money to educate children well. I'm sure lots of families donut on a shoe string, but incant even fund a French Tutor for less than $60/hr.

 

We can build missiles, but we throw pennies at the poorest children in the poorest schools. 12k doesn't go directly to the student and her books. Even when administrators are not abusing the money, there are still thousands that need to go towards salaries, building, maintenance, cooling heating, food etc

 

 

I don't disagree with you, but I also don't think throwing good money after bad will fix this. That's a failed experiment, too. Our 'Abbot' district in Camden NJ hasn't fixed anything, and it's not only wrecking our state economy, but the area has gotten worse. Meanwhile those schools have put on sports fields with all the bells and whistles on TOP of their inner city buildings (Cha-ching!) and they're still the worst schools in the state.

(Abbot districts have tax money funneled to them from more affluent areas of the state, to balance out the funds, so to speak)

 

Poverty of this depth isn't just a lack of $, it's a spiritual deprivation of the most essential kind. I'm not talking about religion here I'm talking about the basic hope to want something out of life other than survival. They have consigned their lives to living, breathing, and existing because they can't see how they can have anything more.

 

And, this is going to be scorned, but the numbers don't lie. AA abort their babies at a 5x the national rate. (Thank you Sanger, you got what you wanted). Modern thought would say, "Of course! Why would they want to bring their children up in such poverty?" but that method of raising their living standard doesn't seem to be working. What it does show is the depth of their lack of hope.

 

It's going to take a long, focused time in the inner cities changing those people to get them to the point where they can make up a cohesive, productive, positive family unit that enables children to thrive. Throwing $ at a school isn't going to fix it. Those schools need to be closed, and those kids need to be able to take vouchers to get into better schools, charter schools, what have you. And not even that will fix it.

 

I think the problem has been we've thrown money at it without rolling our shirt sleeves up.

[Ritsumei]

I think that if the ACLU wants to take this issue on and call the teachers in that school district lazy or incompetant, then they had better spend some time with reality. The children in that school district come from some very, very economically deprived neighborhoods. Every.single.day. is a fight for survival for a lot of those kids. Teen pregnancy rates that would shock many of you, drugs, drugs, drugs, violence in the streets, violence every where, living that would not meet the standards of even basic necessities take incredible amounts of effort to attain, I could go on. Highland Park has been one of the areas that ended up with emergency management in charge due to intense corruption. As one realtor put it, "Those who can't get out of the nasty areas of Detroit, at least take some small pleasure in saying, 'I'm not in Highland Park!' "

 

Sometimes, just surviving one's environment takes all the emotional energy a child has. When that happens, there isn't anything left over to deal with school. In the grand scheme of things, from hungry bellies, drug dealers on the corner, hookers everywhere, gang violence, substance abuse, ...

 

This is so incredibly true. I used to work at a facility for kids with dual diagnosis with mental and emotional handicaps. The stories in those kids' files about curled my hair, but my guess is it's about par for the course in some of these nasty inner city areas. There were a number of them that were borderline on the IQ tests (we required an IQ lower than 70), so in the 65-69 range, and the other staff members and I that worked with those kids were convinced that when you are dealing with abuse/prostitution/no stable life/no food there's just no energy left for school stuff. To this day I think that, for that group, there was nothing wrong with their minds whatsoever, they were just too busy with survival to be able to do well - or even care about - the IQ tests. School is pretty trivial when your mom is your pimp, ya know? (And, no, I didn't make that example up.)

 

Yes, there are a ton of problems with public schools. IMO it's fair to say that the public school experiment is a failure both in terms of our national education, and also in terms of our freedoms. But there's going to be a lot more in play in an area like this than just the public schools. I'm no friend to the public schools - I think it's a failed system, controlled by corrupt unions/government that ought to be gradually abolished. BUT, to blame it all on the schools is SUCH a gross over generalization. And to punish the teachers for it will probably result in driving out one of the few ways some of those kids might be able to escape the area's legacy.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Ritsumei
bad grammar [blush]

[Parrothead]

At age 14, and given the other errors, I would say in all probability it's an issue greater than poor handwriting. I'd be less concerned if the student was 8.

Even considering the environment?

 

That is the whole point of the thread and the article. These kids are being passed from grade to grade with no real learning go on.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Now, these teachers here in NY start at $55K (high enough to purchase a condo or home without a roommate) and are at $80K base in 15 years - that's double the average salary of the children's parents. They have master's degrees, paid for by the district, in many cases. Why are they only responsible for delivering a lesson, and not for the real teaching? Obviously I know the answer, but think about the politics of how they got there. The students aren't even in the equation any more. It's a big money grab that the parents don't get to vote on. We need a far better system of checks and balances.

 

I am finding a starting salary of $37K and an average of salary of $57K.

http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/New-York-teacher-salary

 

In NYC, a BA with no teaching experience is $45K. Based on the cost of living, I don't believe anyone would claim teachers in that city are sitting in the lap of luxury with that salary.

http://schools.nyc.gov/TeachNYC/salary/default.htm

[ChocolateReignRemix]

You are looking at average salaries. That includes part timers.

 

Go to seethroughny.com.

 

I'm talking upstate where I live. NYC is a mess for peoplel who aren't in rent controlled housing. Do remember in NYC that the contract is not for an 8 hr day and it's only for 180 days annually when you do your salary/compensation comparisons to the parents who pay taxes.

 

Please link the data on that site that shows what you are claiming. I am not seeing it.

 

Please keep in mind that teachers work more than the contracted time. I am not sure why you expect professionals with bachelors and masters degrees to be paid less than what teachers currently receive.

[umsami]

I grew up in a suburb of Detroit. As others have said, Highland Park is a really really bad place to grow up. I think the lawsuit has merit. Highland Park has a 10% literacy rate. That's even worse than the 53% literacy rate of Detroit.

 

Still, what is the solution? When we look at our incarceration rates and realize that it costs $50k/year to house an inmate... shouldn't we be spending more on prevention? Not sure where the $12k/student comes from, but according to great schools they spend about $9k/student. Still, if that isn't enough--then yes, they need to find alternatives. As the home life is often so crappy in Highland Park, an extended day program makes sense. They need smaller class sizes, and yes... in many instances...those teachers will have to parent the kids. Maybe the solution is boarding schools, I really don't know. But with only 10% graduating being literate, that's a serious problem which will hound the State of Michigan for years to come.

 

 

To contradict one of the earlier posts, I do believe that literacy and health care are basic rights.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sorry, you'll have to do your own research.

 

I will then just ignore your claim as you haven't put forth anything to substantiate it. I linked a source for the average starting salary. If you want to show that is incorrect, then please link the actual data.

 

The site you linked claims a students per teacher ratio of 12 to 1. Kind of makes it easy to visualize where the money goes, when you know it's 30 students to a classroom for a day and how many hours the teacher isn't present, when the class is being taught by paras.

 

Huh?

 

Please do not put words in my mouth. I do not expect "professionals with bachelors and masters degrees to be paid less than what teachers currently receive". I expect the compensation of all gov't employees to be based on market compensation. We, in this area, are paying well above market. Do you know some place outside of public school that will pay a person $95k for demonstrating to age 4-6 year olds jumping jacks and tag for an hour a day & supervise said children for 4 hrs a day, app 175 days/year, as well as receive several weeks of personal days? Supra-unioniized NY has this availablity. The parents who are not government employees on the other hand, are working full time hours for far less in bennies; those with Master's and PhDs have to go into management or sales to get the kind of compensation an experienced classroom teacher can get now - and they can't levy the district to make up for the shortfall in their retirement investments.

 

Can you cite a specific source where a preschool gym teacher is being paid $95K for working 4 hours/day?

Can you cite where teachers in New York receive "several weeks" of personal days every year?

[stripe]

Highland Park has a 10% literacy rate.

:eek: That is horrifying.

 

Still, what is the solution? When we look at our incarceration rates and realize that it costs $50k/year to house an inmate... shouldn't we be spending more on prevention? ...

To contradict one of the earlier posts, I do believe that literacy and health care are basic rights.

 

I so completely agree with you on both points. It is shocking to me that rarely are prison rates questioned (instead, contracts are made to privatize the running of prisons, which include a gauranteed number of inmates -- scary!). And interesting that prisoners can access health care and education, while others cannot. Time to help keep people OUT of prison with a bit more vigor.

 

I heard this on NPR yesterday. Not exactly about education, but about the idea of becomig more creative in howwe approach issues of getting people out of poverty. It's a pilot project in Oakland, CA where the participants get a stipend to work towards their own goals, and, instead of immediately cutting their benefits as soon as their situation improves (which works as a financial disincentive to try to advance oneself), they are supported as they work on their problems. What I think is really interesting is that they have support groups and track various indicators (like amount of money they've saved and their credit scores). So it's about letting people get the help they want and need, instead of imposing solutions from the top, which may not work or address the problems, and working on long term goals. The group of women profiled, for example, had their health as a goal. I was glad to see something about different ways of approaching the issue than the usual, which often assume poor people are too dumb to know what's good for them.

 

In international programs, for example, as soon as people start getting out of poverty, the family spends their money on healthcare and kids' education. People do know what is important, the vast majority of the time.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Charter schools are public schools, and have to apply all legislation areas just like a in-district traditional PS would....therefore, the same state testing requirements....

 

BUT

 

The sponsoring institutions/corporation must first have an approved business plan, and I suspect very highly, that constant testing reports are going to be a big deal with Highland Park.

 

Doesn't mean the quality or results of the testing will be valid, it just means data that's required.

 

Many charters have failed this benchmark and it's a real sore point with the administration that does the oversight.

 

Google: charter school testing scandal

 

There's some pretty :001_huh: stuff out there. Once in a while, a whistle-blower will talk about it, here's an example.

 

(I'm pro-charter btw, I do not feel this is the baseline situation for charters..)

 

http://dianeravitch.net/2012/06/15/a-major-charter-school-scandal/

 

Many regular public schools have also had testing scandals too. In fact, I suspect it more widespread than reported. As for Diane Ravitch, IMO her opinion is not objective since she seems totally against charters at this point (and ftr I tend to be very liberal).

[Bang!Zoom!]

Diane Ravitch is indeed very anti-charter, her life work has been all about saving the public school system and educational quality within.

[hsmomma]

Very interesting posts everyone. I was happy to read them and see such great conversation and sometimes debate. It looks like many of you really got a bee in your bonnet over it:lol:.

Couldnt help myself...

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Very interesting posts everyone. I was happy to read them and see such great conversation and sometimes debate. It looks like many of you really got a bee in your bonnet over it:lol:.

Couldnt help myself...

 

This is a surprising comment to read on a discussion board. Why else are we here, if not to write interesting posts and participate in great conversations and sometimes debate?

[Bang!Zoom!]

The one background question (well actually 2) that keeps coming up for me here is where is Head Start in Highland Park at? I'm a big fan of that program..

 

The other one, that still remains, is what the ACLU is doing here- the true mechanism of it. I've asked a few people about it, but haven't gotten a definitive answer. I'm still wondering about it. The ACLU declares it's not political in nature nor attached to either side (teachers/unions or state/profit)

 

The ACLU has a short youtube video with an interview with one of the moms of the neighborhood of Highland park with her children on the issue, it's current within the last week or so.

 

 

 

Here's a newscast, short interview from a news station in the area:

 

 

So on the ACLU aspect, I'm totally lost on it. I still think a lot is going to shake out, and the big test is going to be in September.

[Joanne]

Better school, particular curriculum, inclusion of phonics, better teachers, more accountability with funds..............are not solutions for this problem.

 

I have not taught this population, but in my therapy practice, I have a percentage of similar families. The solution isn't phonics :glare:; the REAL solution will take generations. Truly.

 

The problem begins preconception ~ the problem is the culture and dynamic in which this population lives. The reality of "war zone" is so foreign to me that there are times I have to allow their peers to assist with therapeutic response because their world from pre-birth is entirely different than what I know/understand. I do "okay" because I've done much to "get it". I'm guessing that the teachers involved and referenced in the article have also. But when the problem is that a basic education is not valued for generations, when the child in question was conceived by random biology and not intention, when the same child had compromised nutrition pre-natally, and even if they were "lucky" enough to have a non-addicted mother, the very air they breathe is unhealthy. They don't expect their siblings and cousins to live and there are 35 year old grandparents.

 

There are layers upon layers upon layers of challenge and issue here. It's not the parents; it's not the teachers. It's a complete system fail. Trying to fix one part of a completely broken system will not help ~ and it may even hurt.

 

well... there is lots a parents can do that themselves do not have to know how to read. Go to the school talk to the teacher and work out a solution.

Demanding their kid to do extra assignment to keep up. Monitor the kids to finish their homework. Make sure to communicate with the teacher on the progress. If the parents themselves don't stay involved. it is hard to blame the teachers

 

I don't believe uneducated parents is an excuse that they let their kids fall behind. I know quite a few people with uneducated parents went on to be successful because the parents were on them all the time.

 

 

 

People probably gonna throw eggs at me by saying what I am about to say...

 

If that 's the case. Why did they have kids? And why the government allow them to be responsible of the kids if those parents are apparently neglect their children?

 

Jenny,

 

You clearly have no understanding at all of this population. None. Due to your complete lack of understanding, your "answers" are not only simplistic and ineffective, they are also insulting.

[ElizabethB]

Highland Park has a 10% literacy rate. That's even worse than the 53% literacy rate of Detroit.

 

Still, what is the solution? When we look at our incarceration rates and realize that it costs $50k/year to house an inmate... shouldn't we be spending more on prevention?

 

:iagree:

 

10% is horrible. And, even worse than the 30% rate of prisoners. That bodes poorly for their future.

 

I got a chance to meet Michael S. Brunner, the author of "Retarding America: The Imprisonment of Potential" the last time I visited Idaho. It was interesting talking to him. I have owned his book for a while. He now has a website that talks out the link between illiteracy and prison.

 

In his book on page 26, he talks about the Juvenile Justice Literacy Project, which provided phonics instruction to one group of individuals and whole word instruction to another. For the phonics group, "Every dollar invested in reading saved $1.75 as a result of reduced recidivism."

 

He's a big fan of homeschooling, BTW!

Edited July 14, 2012 by ElizabethB

[Bang!Zoom!]

The majority of the housing in Highland park is from the 40-late 50's. Lead is a significant health issue.

 

2.5 percent of all Detroit children tested had elevated blood lead levels.

http://datadrivendetroit.org/web_ftp/Project_Docs/DETKidsDrft_FINAL.pdf

 

When you start looking at the area from a statistical point of view, it's one thing. It's enlightening if you've never seen this sort of thing.

 

I used to work for vendors in grocery stores in the area. That's enough to make you lose your lunch right there.

[VeritasMama]

Better school, particular curriculum, inclusion of phonics, better teachers, more accountability with funds..............are not solutions for this problem.

 

I have not taught this population, but in my therapy practice, I have a percentage of similar families. The solution isn't phonics :glare:; the REAL solution will take generations. Truly.

 

The problem begins preconception ~ the problem is the culture and dynamic in which this population lives. The reality of "war zone" is so foreign to me that there are times I have to allow their peers to assist with therapeutic response because their world from pre-birth is entirely different than what I know/understand. I do "okay" because I've done much to "get it". I'm guessing that the teachers involved and referenced in the article have also. But when the problem is that a basic education is not valued for generations, when the child in question was conceived by random biology and not intention, when the same child had compromised nutrition pre-natally, and even if they were "lucky" enough to have a non-addicted mother, the very air they breathe is unhealthy. They don't expect their siblings and cousins to live and there are 35 year old grandparents.

 

There are layers upon layers upon layers of challenge and issue here. It's not the parents; it's not the teachers. It's a complete system fail. Trying to fix one part of a completely broken system will not help ~ and it may even hurt.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

I agree it is a complete sytem fail, and I agree with what you identify as the cultural problems. But, how do you empower people and change their culture without education? And how can people be truly educated if they can't read? That is why proper phonics instruction should be part of the solution, they can't better their lives if they can't read. I'm almost positive that proper phonics instruction is not in place here, because I haven't seen it in any of the public schools I've been in. Phonics instruction is not a cure all, but it surely must help.

[MommyK]

I haven't been able to make it all the way through this thread, but will mention something that shocked me.

 

We attended a budget crisis meeting that a select number of families were invited to. They tried to handpick families with different criteria to get an overall opinion of the way a drastic change to the multi elementary format might impact different families. We were chosen because we are considered a larger than normal family.

 

Anywho..

 

While sincerely asking for ideas to slice the budget, our Superintendent shared that at this point, the union teachers are required to pay 4% of their income into their pension. The budget, is required to pay 27%. So there's a big ol' chunk of change. Almost a third of the money per pupil goes to pensions. I was blown away.

 

This is not a union bash at all, but it is discouraging. A lot of the administration even states they are uncomfortable with that number, yet they tell us it's law?

 

I found it so discouraging. :(

 

I should add that we are in Michigan.

Edited July 15, 2012 by MommyK
eta..

[Joanne]

 

 

 

I agree it is a complete sytem fail, and I agree with what you identify as the cultural problems. But, how do you empower people and change their culture without education? And how can people be truly educated if they can't read? That is why proper phonics instruction should be part of the solution, they can't better their lives if they can't read. I'm almost positive that proper phonics instruction is not in place here, because I haven't seen it in any of the public schools I've been in. Phonics instruction is not a cure all, but it surely must help.

 

I could offer a few graphic metaphors for it, but basically, offering "phonics" as a solution to this problem doesn't even come to the level of bandaid.

 

Of course the solution will include education, which must include proper reading instruction. But, honestly? These children have had access to adequate reading instruction and education. It isn't a solution for the persons/beings/situation becausing applying education on top of the generations of problems doesn't work.

 

More of what isn't working isn't effective.

[kitten18]

Please be aware that in NY the union does not allow employees to work for free, on their own time.

 

How is that even possible? There is no way a 1st, 2nd, 3rd year teacher (or probably any elementary teacher) could get all their work done during their contract hours.

 

This is a surprising comment to read on a discussion board. Why else are we here, if not to write interesting posts and participate in great conversations and sometimes debate?

I think she was making a joke about "bee in our bonnets" because this is "the hive".;)

 

Better school, particular curriculum, inclusion of phonics, better teachers, more accountability with funds..............are not solutions for this problem.

 

I have not taught this population, but in my therapy practice, I have a percentage of similar families. The solution isn't phonics :glare:; the REAL solution will take generations. Truly.

 

The problem begins preconception ~ the problem is the culture and dynamic in which this population lives. The reality of "war zone" is so foreign to me that there are times I have to allow their peers to assist with therapeutic response because their world from pre-birth is entirely different than what I know/understand. I do "okay" because I've done much to "get it". I'm guessing that the teachers involved and referenced in the article have also. But when the problem is that a basic education is not valued for generations, when the child in question was conceived by random biology and not intention, when the same child had compromised nutrition pre-natally, and even if they were "lucky" enough to have a non-addicted mother, the very air they breathe is unhealthy. They don't expect their siblings and cousins to live and there are 35 year old grandparents.

 

There are layers upon layers upon layers of challenge and issue here. It's not the parents; it's not the teachers. It's a complete system fail. Trying to fix one part of a completely broken system will not help ~ and it may even hurt.

 

 

I completely agree.

[jennynd]

Better school, particular curriculum, inclusion of phonics, better teachers, more accountability with funds..............are not solutions for this problem.

 

I have not taught this population, but in my therapy practice, I have a percentage of similar families. The solution isn't phonics :glare:; the REAL solution will take generations. Truly.

 

The problem begins preconception ~ the problem is the culture and dynamic in which this population lives. The reality of "war zone" is so foreign to me that there are times I have to allow their peers to assist with therapeutic response because their world from pre-birth is entirely different than what I know/understand. I do "okay" because I've done much to "get it". I'm guessing that the teachers involved and referenced in the article have also. But when the problem is that a basic education is not valued for generations, when the child in question was conceived by random biology and not intention, when the same child had compromised nutrition pre-natally, and even if they were "lucky" enough to have a non-addicted mother, the very air they breathe is unhealthy. They don't expect their siblings and cousins to live and there are 35 year old grandparents.

 

There are layers upon layers upon layers of challenge and issue here. It's not the parents; it's not the teachers. It's a complete system fail. Trying to fix one part of a completely broken system will not help ~ and it may even hurt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jenny,

 

You clearly have no understanding at all of this population. None. Due to your complete lack of understanding, your "answers" are not only simplistic and ineffective, they are also insulting.

 

Wow, u keep attract me on similar issue and trying to show your opinion is superior simply because u work with some of this population.

Well.1, we are talking about if the law suit is appropriate. From ur post, you also agree that teacher is not to blame. 2. I do have one of those type as family member.. More than one. U see the situation as an outsider and I see the situation from a famiy member of view. You can only providing them so much. Most of those are not trying to get themselves out the situation. Most of them are finding somebody else to blame. And yes I do know know people also grow up in the project housing, and u know what? One has a PHD from U Of Illinois in mechanical engineering. She try everything to break to cycle. Another friend group up never know where his DAD, his Mom has 4 kids from 4 different Guys, he also has advanced degree and is one of the most upbeat person i ever know.It is up to the people. I don't believe for a Sec those people need "generation" help to get out.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Thank you, kitten18! I totally missed that. LOL

[FaithManor]

What also has not been discussed is that Wayne County officials estimate that 50% of the school population of Highland Park has FAS/FAE and that does not include the number of children born addicted to amphetamines, cocaine, and exposed to heroin in utero. 50% - staggering doesn't even describe that statistic. I got that from our honorary daughter who is completing an internship with Macomb County probation department and has access to LOTS of data that the media is never privvy too. You don't want to know how any juveniles are in the system for crime and you really, really do not want to know how many are waiting for foster homes. The numbers are so high that they are almost unbelievable. She said that in one of their meetings with social workers tracking kids in Macomb that the topic of Wayne County came up and the social workers were unanimous that the state should build orphanages.

 

None of us, regardless of curriculum, would be any more effective no matter what the curriculum. The odds are stacked against us in the most disturbing manner. Add lack of prenatal care and nutrition onto the sustances these children were exposed to pre-birth and the lead problem (2.5% is very, very conservative estimate, a couple of toxicologists from U of M put it at more like 25%), and ongoing nutritional defiencies and the recipe for total, generational disaster has been created.

 

Some areas of Highland Park do not have ambulance service because it is too dangerous to provide...in other areas the medics are paid hazard pay similar to the military for each call they take and they wear bullet proof vests and have police send three to four units - eight officers armed to the teeth - just to make it somewhat safe for fire/rescue/EMS to get in there.

 

The answers are not simple, the solutions will take YEARS to bear any fruit.

 

Faith

[Lisbeth]

I agree. We cannot make people want to pursue a better life, they have to do it themselves. There are many reasons it can be hard as heck, but none of those reasons are an excuse to not do it.

 

I get it. For many of them, their life sucks. Partly through their own stupid choices and partly because they are born into suffering the stupid choices of others such as their own parents or environment.

 

At some point though, we all have the responsibility to quit whining and do what it takes to change things.

 

Insanity is continuing to do what doesn't work while expecting different results.

 

It's really insane to do that and then whine that it is someone else's fault you didn't get a different result.

 

No one has a higher duty to love and provide for those kids than their parents.

 

And I don't blame people for getting out ASAP and not going back. Those type of environments are toxic.

 

:iagree:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

What also has not been discussed is that Wayne County officials estimate that 50% of the school population of Highland Park has FAS/FAE and that does not include the number of children born addicted to amphetamines, cocaine, and exposed to heroin in utero. 50% - staggering doesn't even describe that statistic. I got that from our honorary daughter who is completing an internship with Macomb County probation department and has access to LOTS of data that the media is never privvy too. You don't want to know how any juveniles are in the system for crime and you really, really do not want to know how many are waiting for foster homes. The numbers are so high that they are almost unbelievable. She said that in one of their meetings with social workers tracking kids in Macomb that the topic of Wayne County came up and the social workers were unanimous that the state should build orphanages.

 

None of us, regardless of curriculum, would be any more effective no matter what the curriculum. The odds are stacked against us in the most disturbing manner. Add lack of prenatal care and nutrition onto the sustances these children were exposed to pre-birth and the lead problem (2.5% is very, very conservative estimate, a couple of toxicologists from U of M put it at more like 25%), and ongoing nutritional defiencies and the recipe for total, generational disaster has been created.

 

Some areas of Highland Park do not have ambulance service because it is too dangerous to provide...in other areas the medics are paid hazard pay similar to the military for each call they take and they wear bullet proof vests and have police send three to four units - eight officers armed to the teeth - just to make it somewhat safe for fire/rescue/EMS to get in there.

 

The answers are not simple, the solutions will take YEARS to bear any fruit.

 

Faith

 

Faith, this info about FAS/FAE and drug-addicted infants, combined with Library Lover's posts about lead in homes, added a layer of knowledge that I did not have about some of these educational failures.

 

I started the thread and I've read every post, but I haven't had much more to say, because I know that more money or even more awareness will not fix the situation. I just wonder what we will do as a nation when whole cities are lost to us.

 

What should be done? Who will be the people or groups that actually know what the real solutions are?

[justamouse]

What also has not been discussed is that Wayne County officials estimate that 50% of the school population of Highland Park has FAS/FAE and that does not include the number of children born addicted to amphetamines, cocaine, and exposed to heroin in utero. 50% - staggering doesn't even describe that statistic. I got that from our honorary daughter who is completing an internship with Macomb County probation department and has access to LOTS of data that the media is never privvy too. You don't want to know how any juveniles are in the system for crime and you really, really do not want to know how many are waiting for foster homes. The numbers are so high that they are almost unbelievable. She said that in one of their meetings with social workers tracking kids in Macomb that the topic of Wayne County came up and the social workers were unanimous that the state should build orphanages.

 

None of us, regardless of curriculum, would be any more effective no matter what the curriculum. The odds are stacked against us in the most disturbing manner. Add lack of prenatal care and nutrition onto the sustances these children were exposed to pre-birth and the lead problem (2.5% is very, very conservative estimate, a couple of toxicologists from U of M put it at more like 25%), and ongoing nutritional defiencies and the recipe for total, generational disaster has been created.

 

Some areas of Highland Park do not have ambulance service because it is too dangerous to provide...in other areas the medics are paid hazard pay similar to the military for each call they take and they wear bullet proof vests and have police send three to four units - eight officers armed to the teeth - just to make it somewhat safe for fire/rescue/EMS to get in there.

 

The answers are not simple, the solutions will take YEARS to bear any fruit.

 

Faith

 

 

You know, it sounds crazy, but maybe orphanages (OK, POllyanna me, here) directed by the *best*, most honorable people, might be the best thing for them. They would have a *Culture* around them, and that culture might be strong enough to change their lives.

 

I know they have a bad reputation, and a bad history, but is it possible to change that?

[Bang!Zoom!]

Faith, and that's just the conditions for the babies that make it to live birth.

 

I don't know what the real full-term infant mortality, pregnancy loss, or termination rates could be. I'm absolutely sure it's tragic though.

[angela in ohio]

I haven't been able to make it all the way through this thread, but will mention something that shocked me.

 

We attended a budget crisis meeting that a select number of families were invited to. They tried to handpick families with different criteria to get an overall opinion of the way a drastic change to the multi elementary format might impact different families. We were chosen because we are considered a larger than normal family.

 

Anywho..

 

While sincerely asking for ideas to slice the budget, our Superintendent shared that at this point, the union teachers are required to pay 4% of their income into their pension. The budget, is required to pay 27%. So there's a big ol' chunk of change. Almost a third of the money per pupil goes to pensions. I was blown away.

 

This is not a union bash at all, but it is discouraging. A lot of the administration even states they are uncomfortable with that number, yet they tell us it's law?

 

I found it so discouraging. :(

 

I should add that we are in Michigan.

 

It's not that simple. In Michigan, teachers pay into both Social Security and the state teacher's retirement. So they are paying Social Security. Like many other industries, part of the salary compensation is also retirement benefits. It is not uncommon in many fields for companies to pay those benefits. Yes, school districts do pay part of a teacher's retirement, as well as a portion of Social Security, as with any other employer. Recently, Michigan passed a law aimed at reducing the number of long-term (expensive) teachers in the system; as part of this law, the state now takes 6% of current teacher's salaries to pay for the retirement of those teachers. In addition, each teacher pays a portion of the state retirement as well.

 

Schools are a service industry; of course a large part of their budget goes toward salary and benefits.

 

(Not a teacher's union fan by any stretch, but this isn't really the problem.)

[Meriwether]

You know, it sounds crazy, but maybe orphanages (OK, POllyanna me, here) directed by the *best*, most honorable people, might be the best thing for them. They would have a *Culture* around them, and that culture might be strong enough to change their lives.

 

I know they have a bad reputation, and a bad history, but is it possible to change that?

 

I've often wondered if good orphanages wouldn't be better than some foster situations.

[SKL]

You know, it sounds crazy, but maybe orphanages (OK, POllyanna me, here) directed by the *best*, most honorable people, might be the best thing for them. They would have a *Culture* around them, and that culture might be strong enough to change their lives.

 

I know they have a bad reputation, and a bad history, but is it possible to change that?

 

No. Because the "best, most honorable people" directing them would be selected by the government / politicians. It has never worked. Like someone said above, doing the same thing and expecting different results is insane. Check out the outcomes for children in orphanages in other countries - particularly orphanages filled with kids whose parents' bad choices caused them to have special needs.

 

However, I am extremely skeptical about the earlier-stated 10% literacy statistic. How are they defining literacy? Even in third world countries kids on the street have higher literacy than that.

[angela in ohio]

Some areas of Highland Park do not have ambulance service because it is too dangerous to provide...in other areas the medics are paid hazard pay similar to the military for each call they take and they wear bullet proof vests and have police send three to four units - eight officers armed to the teeth - just to make it somewhat safe for fire/rescue/EMS to get in there.

 

We just drove by (on the expressway) today on the way to a family party, and my mom started talking about Highland Park. I had forgotten, but it was the city that had to take out all of the street lights because they couldn't afford them anymore.

 

I don't think most people have any concept of the desperation in this area.

 

BTW, if anyone is feeling inspired by this conversation to help, I know of a solid organization providing services to students from Detroit: the Youth Development Commission is working hard in the area. We had a number of robotics teams at our last competition from this program, and you could see the hard work the volunteers were putting in. There are other programs, too, but this is the one I know.

[MommyK]

It's not that simple. In Michigan, teachers pay into both Social Security and the state teacher's retirement. So they are paying Social Security. Like many other industries, part of the salary compensation is also retirement benefits. It is not uncommon in many fields for companies to pay those benefits. Yes, school districts do pay part of a teacher's retirement, as well as a portion of Social Security, as with any other employer. Recently, Michigan passed a law aimed at reducing the number of long-term (expensive) teachers in the system; as part of this law, the state now takes 6% of current teacher's salaries to pay for the retirement of those teachers. In addition, each teacher pays a portion of the state retirement as well.

 

Schools are a service industry; of course a large part of their budget goes toward salary and benefits.

 

(Not a teacher's union fan by any stretch, but this isn't really the problem.)

 

My point was that 30% seems excessive, and it's not something that the general population is aware of.. I'm pointing out that when we ask where the money per pupil is going, almost a third is going into the pension. Maybe I'm naive, but is this really reasonable? My husband and I both work, both pay taxes and into social security, but no one pays that kind of money into any pension for either one of our industries.. It just seems uncommon.

 

When our superintendent says "Hey, we need to look at our budget and immediately take 27% off the top, because the state gives it to us, and then takes it back for the pension (retirements etc)" I'm alarmed.

[justamouse]

No. Because the "best, most honorable people" directing them would be selected by the government / politicians. It has never worked. Like someone said above, doing the same thing and expecting different results is insane. Check out the outcomes for children in orphanages in other countries - particularly orphanages filled with kids whose parents' bad choices caused them to have special needs.

 

However, I am extremely skeptical about the earlier-stated 10% literacy statistic. How are they defining literacy? Even in third world countries kids on the street have higher literacy than that.

 

Who says it has to be run by politicians.

 

And if you're refuting her stats, you need to post a link to your own.

[SKL]

Who says it has to be run by politicians.

 

And if you're refuting her stats, you need to post a link to your own.

 

1) How else is it going to be staffed?

 

2) Just look up the World Almanac. Choose any country.

[FaithManor]

Faith, and that's just the conditions for the babies that make it to live birth.

 

I don't know what the real full-term infant mortality, pregnancy loss, or termination rates could be. I'm absolutely sure it's tragic though.

 

 

Yes, the infant mortality rate is very, very hard to determine because in most areas of the U.S. it is tracked through reporting by doctors, midwives, health clinics, etc. Most of these women don't have any prenatal care and a number of infants are born in alleys, cars, in run-down buildings etc. As far as reported termination rates, not nearly as high as you might think. A lot of the teens really think that having a baby will give them someone who to love and who will love them back or at least that is what social services reports.

 

Some more startling statistics, Wayne County did a survey in 2008 of 3000 youngsters in the juvenile justice system all 16 and under, tested them, and found more than 50% were low IQ, a range of 71-80. To add insult to injury, they found children with IQ's as low as 35 in detention wards because there were no foster homes available. These were kids so low functioning that they couldn't even comprehend whatever it was they were accused of, but there was no where else they could be housed. Currently, Wayne County has more than 23,000 youth in detention, house arrest, probation, etc....being tracked through the juvenile courts.

 

I do think, though I am no great fan of the idea, that Michigan will have to build orphanages if this continues. Now, knowing Michigan, they'll hire whatever unfeeling person who will work for $7.50 an hr. for the chance to abuse kids instead of paying a good and decent wage, make it a great job to have, and then when people line up for those jobs, thoroughly vet them, do psychological testing to help eliminate the riff-raff, and put some decent human beings into those positions. It's Michigan so I don't have high hopes that it will be done right. However, as freakishly awful as this sounds, if decent food, a good roof, appropriate clothing for the weather conditions, tutoring, school attendance, and some modicum of medical care is provided, it would still be an improvement by 1000's of percent over their current environments even if no one loves them or cares about them personally and just wants to collect a paycheck for doing the minimum.

 

Can I just brag on a local, juvenile court judge from our county for a minute? She's just the neatest lady in the whole world if you ask me. Now, this is a rural county and relatively stable, very little by way of slum and such, but still substance abuse and abusive parents are to be found and so she deals with 50-75 youth every year that are in trouble with the law. She decided that the single biggest thing that would make a difference in these kids lives, given the homes they came from, was to teach them life skills and self-care. She had no money, not a drop for a program, so she needed to work with some sort of organization that already existed. She approached 4-H about starting a club just for kids that were coming through her courtroom. She joined as a leader, got her baliff involved, her clerk, and a bunch of other adults from the community. The kids began meeting once per month and she started with teaching them about health and hygiene. Then nutrition. Then safety. The moved on to finances. She made sure that the meeting included an element of fun, a healthy snack, and a healthy dose of laughter.

 

These kids have been making trips to the bank and local bank managers have been teaching them job interview skills, how to balance a checkbook, you name it. 4-H'ers that have graduated out and are in college or vo-tech have been enlisted to provide one-one tutoring at the community center. The Master Gardener's program volunteered to help the kids cultivate a community garden and each teen that volunteers will share the profits from the sale of produce at the farmer's market plus take produce home to their family - it's the only garden in the area that isn't subject to the watering ban due to the drought.

 

She's had her first young man ask her if she thought he was smart enough to go to college or to tech school. She told him absolutely he was and she had full confidence that he could do it. He'd be the first person in his family for four generations to have a better than 8th grade education. Most of his family has been functionally illiterate through the decades due to substance abuse problems and domestic violence.

 

She has a ZERO recidivism rate for the kids who were willing to join the club and stick with it. The kids were just clamoring for more, more, more and so they went to bi-monthly meetings, then to weekly, then to turoting one afternoon per week, and club meeting on another afternoon. Eight times per month for a couple of hours. Sixteen hours per month. That is what it has taken for her to change lives - and the program is relatively simple to execute all things considered.

 

I love that judge! She is a hero, or at least that is how I see it.

 

Faith

[justamouse]

1) How else is it going to be staffed?

 

2) Just look up the World Almanac. Choose any country.

 

Think creatively. If we automatically punted everything to the government, nothing would get done. No one said, raise the taxes, we need orphanages! Anyway, the foster system is *already* paying for those kids.

 

No, you brought it to the discussion, it's your responsibility to link.

[justamouse]

Can I just brag on a local, juvenile court judge from our county for a minute? She's just the neatest lady in the whole world if you ask me. Now, this is a rural county and relatively stable, very little by way of slum and such, but still substance abuse and abusive parents are to be found and so she deals with 50-75 youth every year that are in trouble with the law. She decided that the single biggest thing that would make a difference in these kids lives, given the homes they came from, was to teach them life skills and self-care. She had no money, not a drop for a program, so she needed to work with some sort of organization that already existed. She approached 4-H about starting a club just for kids that were coming through her courtroom. She joined as a leader, got her baliff involved, her clerk, and a bunch of other adults from the community. The kids began meeting once per month and she started with teaching them about health and hygiene. Then nutrition. Then safety. The moved on to finances. She made sure that the meeting included an element of fun, a healthy snack, and a healthy dose of laughter.

 

These kids have been making trips to the bank and local bank managers have been teaching them job interview skills, how to balance a checkbook, you name it. 4-H'ers that have graduated out and are in college or vo-tech have been enlisted to provide one-one tutoring at the community center. The Master Gardener's program volunteered to help the kids cultivate a community garden and each teen that volunteers will share the profits from the sale of produce at the farmer's market plus take produce home to their family - it's the only garden in the area that isn't subject to the watering ban due to the drought.

 

She's had her first young man ask her if she thought he was smart enough to go to college or to tech school. She told him absolutely he was and she had full confidence that he could do it. He'd be the first person in his family for four generations to have a better than 8th grade education. Most of his family has been functionally illiterate through the decades due to substance abuse problems and domestic violence.

 

She has a ZERO recidivism rate for the kids who were willing to join the club and stick with it. The kids were just clamoring for more, more, more and so they went to bi-monthly meetings, then to weekly, then to turoting one afternoon per week, and club meeting on another afternoon. Eight times per month for a couple of hours. Sixteen hours per month. That is what it has taken for her to change lives - and the program is relatively simple to execute all things considered.

 

I love that judge! She is a hero, or at least that is how I see it.

 

Faith

 

You should nominate her for CNN heroes. She sounds amazing!

[angela in ohio]

My point was that 30% seems excessive, and it's not something that the general population is aware of.. I'm pointing out that when we ask where the money per pupil is going, almost a third is going into the pension. Maybe I'm naive, but is this really reasonable? My husband and I both work, both pay taxes and into social security, but no one pays that kind of money into any pension for either one of our industries.. It just seems uncommon.

 

When our superintendent says "Hey, we need to look at our budget and immediately take 27% off the top, because the state gives it to us, and then takes it back for the pension (retirements etc)" I'm alarmed.

 

It's not reasonable, and it's also not accurate - that's my point. On average, a school spends about a quarter of its salary and benefit allotment on benefits. So he's saying they spend 120% of their budget on employee expenses? ;) How do they pay for the buidlings and supplies? I think he or you may be mixing his statements up. School districts are required to pay 20-something percent of the *salaries paid* amount to the state for retirement; that's not 20-something percent of their total budget.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Compassion International has an Infant Survival Program where they help both moms and babies. I've been studying up on this after reading about it on Ann Voskamp's blog.

 

The women get lessons on hygiene, homemaking, and parenting, and learn skills to earn an income for themselves and their children.

 

I was looking at the pictures of one of these homes for women and babies in Haiti and wondering what would happen if Compassion International could go to Highland Park.

[SKL]

I do think, though I am no great fan of the idea, that Michigan will have to build orphanages if this continues. Now, knowing Michigan, they'll hire whatever unfeeling person who will work for $7.50 an hr. for the chance to abuse kids instead of paying a good and decent wage, make it a great job to have, and then when people line up for those jobs, thoroughly vet them, do psychological testing to help eliminate the riff-raff, and put some decent human beings into those positions. It's Michigan so I don't have high hopes that it will be done right. However, as freakishly awful as this sounds, if decent food, a good roof, appropriate clothing for the weather conditions, tutoring, school attendance, and some modicum of medical care is provided, it would still be an improvement by 1000's of percent over their current environments even if no one loves them or cares about them personally and just wants to collect a paycheck for doing the minimum.

 

Nope. Even a poorly educated, financially poor, ignorant parent usually loves his individual child, and that's more important than the opportunity to spend one's childhood having a lifestyle prescribed by some expert somewhere.

Besides, these kids do go to school. What's going to be so different about living in an orphanage that they will magically absorb everything they hear in school?

 

Now, I could understand those who are removed from homes due to abuse/neglect being placed in foster homes in better communities, instead of foster homes within the same failing school district (unless studies show kids in foster care there do OK in school).

 

Of course, foster care reform is a whole other difficult subject.

[ElizabethB]

I have worked with these types of children. The children I have worked with are not getting phonics and they can learn. We shouldn't give up on them before we even try.

 

I'm not saying that they don't have other issues that need to be dealt with, I'm just addressing their literacy needs since that's what I've had experience working with. (And literacy was part of the subject of the thread, BTW!) They have a lot of baggage, but that doesn't mean we should set low expectations for them. Many people have questioned my use of the KJV with this type of population, but I've found that when you set your expectations high, many of them can reach them. I teach using Webster up to the 12th grade level for my group classes and my videos/online lessons use the KJV, also 12th grade level.

 

Here are some E. St. Louis facts from Environmental Health News:

 

Of its 27,000 residents, 15 percent are unemployed, almost 44 percent are below the poverty line and the median family income is around $22,000, according to census reports. Its violent crime and murder rates are consistently among the nation’s highest. Eighty-two percent of East St. Louis children depend on food stamps, 28 percent of births are to teen mothers and 22 percent of mothers receive no or inadequate prenatal care, according to the nonprofit group Vision for Children at Risk.

 

The children I tutored in LA who were coming out of homelessness all had single moms. There was a gate and security guard at the entrance for a reason. Most were minorities and a few were ELL.

 

My inner city North Little Rock students were the best off demographically of all 3 groups, and they took longer than the LA children to learn because I had to un-teach the guessing habits from sight words and teach phonics--my LA children knew so little I just had to teach most of them from scratch, which is actually easier and quicker than un-teaching bad habits.

 

I've just getting started with the E. St. Louis children, but they seem similar to the LA children so far. They do not seem to be getting taught phonics at school.

Edited July 16, 2012 by ElizabethB