WWYD? Family issues(long. sorry.)

[MedicMom]

I need more wisdom from the board...

 

My SIL(husband's sister) is in her thirties, single, childless, and set in her ways about how children should act. She is a high school teacher, so you would think that she'd have some clue as to developmental appropriateness, but she really doesn't seem to when it comes to small children. She is constantly scolding, correcting, and attempting to discipline my two-year-old and other small kids, including my nieces and nephews on my side. This happens even in front of the parents. My in-laws and my parents are close and my in-laws honorary grandparents to my nieces and nephews, so they are usually present at the birthday parties and other gatherings on my family's side. I'm thrilled my kids have such a large, loving family and everyone gets along so well, but...

 

Yesterday was my nephew's second birthday(my sister's son). My MIL and SIL were there at the party. We had three two-year-old boys(my son and my two nephews) and my 3-year-old niece(the birthday's boys older sister). I will be honest--my sister's kids have some behavioral issues. My sister left her abusive husband a year and half ago and has since remarried, but both kids show the effects of a chaotic homelife, all the rapid changes, and my niece has definite aggression issues. My sister is working with a child therapist, but they have a long way to go. Anyway, my SIL spent the entire party scolding my son and my niece and nephews over things that I didn't find important--such as my two-year-old and his two-year-old cousins eating birthday cake with their hands instead of forks, my nephew not saying "please," my niece trying to help her brother open presents. The parents were all present, but my SIL still kept scolding the kids. My sister was too polite to say anything except to quietly distract her kids elsewhere.

The final straw came on the playground. My son was hesitant in going down a slide and my niece was behind him. She grew impatient and pushed him down the slide. My SIL was standing there and yelled at my niece, threatning her with time outs and such. My son was crying so I was trying to comfort him, and my niece's step-dad was right there, trying to handle the situation with my niece himself. I finally stepped in and asked my SIL to stop and let my sister's husband handle it. My SIL walked away and soon left the party. She isn't responding to my texts or anything now, which is unusual. SIL and I were good friends long before I married my husband, and we've always hung out and things together. I know she is offended, but I really felt I needed to step in at that point.

 

My husband says SIL has always been like this--scolding and disciplining other people's children--and has always had very high expectations for young kids. I have previously asked him to talk to her about scolding/disciplining our son right in front of us, but he just says it won't change.

 

What do you think? Should I talk to her about it and nicely ask that she refrain from correcting my children when I am present? Let it go and just step in when necessary for both my son and niece and nephews? She is a very loving aunt and great SIL--and we have been friends a long time--, she just seems to be clueless when it comes to appropriate expectations for young kids.

[Murphy101]

Not only would I not apologize for telling her to back off, I think you were downright gracious about it compared to what I would have told her.

[melissad2]

Not only would I not apologize for telling her to back off, I think you were downright gracious about it compared to what I would have told her.

 

:iagree:

[SKL]

I would not say anything further until you see if she learned anything from her mistake and your correction of it.

 

If she ever has kids, this behavior will most likely stop very quickly. If not, at least you know it's only sometimes and that the kids will eventually grow too old for her nagging. Since it's only words, I would not make a big deal out of it other than to intercept like you did if it gets ridiculous.

[renmew]

Until the last year or so, my younger and childless sister was similar. Her fiance has a son, and co-parenting him has taken a lot of the focus off my kids. I actually did have to talk to her directly, and ask that when I was present to NOT scold my children. Unless there was immediate real danger, then please leave the job to me, their mother, even if we disagreed on what was appropriate to scold at.

 

For example, my kids are very polite and say "thank you" without being reminded more than 90% of the time. Sometimes they forget, usually when they are crazy excited; it's rare, but it happens. I will usually wait for them to do it on their own. If it was a really big thing, and I see that they've forgotten, I will pull them aside quietly and remind them. No big deal, right? She, on the other hand, will take take the item away and scold them loudly for not saying thank you within literally 5 seconds of the nice deed.

 

My favorite telling her off was when she loudly sighed when seeing my living room one day recently. I said, yes, the single full time working mother of three young children has a messing living room today. Let's proclaim it from the rooftops. Her house only has one child in it 3 days a week, so I told her it was apples and oranges and to keep her feelings to herself.

 

Don't feel bad about being straightforward with her, not nasty, just honest.

[Murphy101]

If she hadn't been threatening with punishments and simply said a smiling polite, "hey use your fork buddy!" I would probably not say anything and not feel much more than mildly irritated.

 

But I would get ticked off if she was telling my kids she was going to punish them. In fact, I would say right then right in front of her, "No, she won't because she isn't your mom or dad and has no business patenting other people's kids."

 

It would likely be said in the kind of tone that makes my kids decide they want no part of the bear attack about to ensue so they all go play quietly elsewhere.

[SKL]

If she hadn't been threatening with punishments and simply said a smiling polite, "hey use your fork buddy!" I would probably not say anything and not feel much more than mildly irritated.

 

But I would get ticked off if she was telling my kids she was going to punish them. In fact, I would say right then right in front of her, "No, she won't because she isn't your mom or dad and has no business patenting other people's kids."

 

It would likely be said in the kind of tone that makes my kids decide they want no part of the bear attack about to ensue so they all go play quietly elsewhere.

 

:lol: I have people who will contradict me (the mom) by saying that my kids don't need to do what I tell them. I tell them off roundly in front of my kids, because I think it's important for my kids to know who's the boss of them. I did try a few times to talk to these offenders out of the kids' earshot, but it didn't work, so too bad for them. If my kids have less respect for them as a result, it's their own doing.

[swellmomma]

Not only would I not apologize for telling her to back off, I think you were downright gracious about it compared to what I would have told her.

 

:iagree: It would have never made it to the slide incident before I was not to graciously telling her to back the heck off and allow the parents to actually, you know, parent.

[swellmomma]

:lol: I have people who will contradict me (the mom) by saying that my kids don't need to do what I tell them. I tell them off roundly in front of my kids, because I think it's important for my kids to know who's the boss of them. I did try a few times to talk to these offenders out of the kids' earshot, but it didn't work, so too bad for them. If my kids have less respect for them as a result, it's their own doing.

 

:iagree:yup. As well as the pp with the opposite, I will not allow other people to punish them. My mom once told my ds then 2 she would spank him if he misbehaved again, I looked her in the eye and said not unless you want to meet up with your head next week.

 

It's one thing for a loving aunt or gramma etc to remind a child of a desired or dangerous behaviour. Heck I do that with random kids. Gently remind to be careful, etc. Often even with stranger's children doing something dangerous at the park or something it seldom takes more than looking them in the face and shaking my head.( I am also the woman at the park calling every little child dear, asking if they are okay if hurt, talking with them and pushing swings.) But it is another thing entirely to be yelling at the threatening the children, especially ones so young. Heck I would expect to be knocked out if I tried a stunt like that.

 

Let's face it the only perfect parents are those without kids. It seems the older childless women are the worst for this behaviour.

[MedicMom]

If she hadn't been threatening with punishments and simply said a smiling polite, "hey use your fork buddy!" I would probably not say anything and not feel much more than mildly irritated.

 

But I would get ticked off if she was telling my kids she was going to punish them. In fact, I would say right then right in front of her, "No, she won't because she isn't your mom or dad and has no business patenting other people's kids."

 

It would likely be said in the kind of tone that makes my kids decide they want no part of the bear attack about to ensue so they all go play quietly elsewhere.

 

 

This is really what I want to say. But I keep trying to remember that she is (a) my kid's aunt and my husband's sister and (b) we really have been good friends a long time. I never saw this side of her till I had kids, though. I don't want to alienate her, but she needs to stop scolding my son over silly things that don't matter(he's TWO. OF COURSE he's not going to eat cake with a fork when he can use his hands and make a mess! It was a picnic and I own a bathtub, so I didn't care). I am trying to walk a tightrope here between being Mama Bear and remembering that she is my husband's sister.

 

I do think being childless is a lot of it. She is convinced she'll never marry, so she keeps trying to do a lot of the mom stuff with my kids. It's okay to a point, but really, in the end, I'm mom.

[Murphy101]

I don't understand at all why her being your sil makes a lick of difference.

And no, she wouldn't get to parent vicariously through my kids either.

She has two options:

Be doting aunt

Or

Not.

 

3rd parent is NOT an option on the table.

[MedicMom]

I don't understand at all why her being your sil makes a lick of difference.

And no, she wouldn't get to parent vicariously through my kids either.

She has two options:

Be doting aunt

Or

Not.

 

3rd parent is NOT an option on the table.

 

 

My husband is close to his family. I am trying to respect his desire not to completely offend and alienate his sister, which is going to require careful handling of this situation--and not my usual fly-off-the-handle and say exactly what I think. :001_smile: He truly feels that the best way to handle the situation is to step in when it gets out of hand, but you put it best--she is trying to act like a third parent, in more ways than this. I need that to stop.

[Murphy101]

I would just be clear and direct. Because I don't know any other way to be. ;)

I'm not sure I understand your dh either. I would hope he is close to you as well and wouldn't want to see you alienated either, and her behavior would alienate me. If I didn't feel I could stop it, I wouldn't want to be around her.

 

"dear sil, I love you and know you mean well, but *I* am their mother and will do the parenting."

[TXBeth]

I would talk to her but couch it in the form of an apology. "I'm sorry for being so abrupt in the heat of the moment. I should have approached you earlier and let you know that we really aren't comfortable with you scolding the kids when we are available to handle the situation. It wasn't fair for me to spring it on you in the middle of a conflict. We really appreciate how much you care for DS, and we want you to feel free to love on him and play with him while we handle the discipline."

[Harriet Vane]

I think your dh needs to tell her to knock it off. Better to tell her now, while the kids are young than to let this continue to build. She will alienate not only all the mamas but all her beloved nieces and nephews as well.

 

Also would hate to see those poor kids from the unhappy home feel unwelcome and unloved with family. I have BTDT with some young cousins that I mothered through their mother's terminal illness. If the kids' training is suffering and their home is unhappy and chaotic, then they really, really need the family to just love on them and to keep the corrections sweet.

Edited July 4, 2012 by strider

[Harriet Vane]

I would talk to her but couch it in the form of an apology. "I'm sorry for being so abrupt in the heat of the moment. I should have approached you earlier and let you know that we really aren't comfortable with you scolding the kids when we are available to handle the situation. It wasn't fair for me to spring it on you in the middle of a conflict. We really appreciate how much you care for DS, and we want you to feel free to love on him and play with him while we handle the discipline."

 

Well said.

[Soror]

If she hadn't been threatening with punishments and simply said a smiling polite, "hey use your fork buddy!" I would probably not say anything and not feel much more than mildly irritated.

 

But I would get ticked off if she was telling my kids she was going to punish them. In fact, I would say right then right in front of her, "No, she won't because she isn't your mom or dad and has no business patenting other people's kids."

 

It would likely be said in the kind of tone that makes my kids decide they want no part of the bear attack about to ensue so they all go play quietly elsewhere.

 

:iagree: I have a mil that does this and I have said in earshot that I'm the parent and such and such will or won't happen. I do let some things go but she can be really over the top sometimes.

 

That is as much as I can muster in politeness on that situation. If she gets real over the top then we don't visit for awhile.

[Galatea]

My husband is close to his family. I am trying to respect his desire not to completely offend and alienate his sister, which is going to require careful handling of this situation--and not my usual fly-off-the-handle and say exactly what I think. :001_smile: He truly feels that the best way to handle the situation is to step in when it gets out of hand, but you put it best--she is trying to act like a third parent, in more ways than this. I need that to stop.

 

You can't be the only one giving and bending in a relationship, or there is no relationship to protect anyway. If she can't handle being told it's not her business/job, then she doesn't care. She may not immediately like it, but she will get over it if she values the relationship. If she doesn't get over it, does she really value the relationship with you, her own brother, or her own nephew?

[Snickerdoodle]

You can't be the only one giving and bending in a relationship, or there is no relationship to protect anyway.

 

:iagree:

 

Why do you feel bad for having boundaries?

[Jean in Newcastle]

You stepped up and said what needed to be said. She's the one who is offended and acting poorly as a result. I don't see any reason to be trying to chase her down to apologize for something that you did which was not wrong, or to appease her when she's the one who is having a temper tantrum. My opinion is to just leave it be.

[Joanne]

I not discuss the specifics of this or any past situation with he I would r. I would, when it comes up, I would not debate but state clearly she is not welcome to maonage, discipline or organize the kids at all. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[MedicMom]

:iagree:

 

Why do you feel bad for having boundaries?

 

 

I don't. I just want to make sure I say things right and don't make the situation worse. I think I should have explained that I am often...um...less than diplomatic? My husband's concern is that I will go talk to her, get mad, and make the situation worse. It is, honestly, a fair observation.

 

I can't figure out how to quote twice in a post, but I think Joanne is headed where my DH is...not to bring this particular situation up, but whenever SIL starts parenting my children in front of us, to politely ask her to stop and remind her that we are their parents. Again, and again, and again.

[Galatea]

I don't. I just want to make sure I say things right and don't make the situation worse. I think I should have explained that I am often...um...less than diplomatic? My husband's concern is that I will go talk to her, get mad, and make the situation worse. It is, honestly, a fair observation.

 

I can't figure out how to quote twice in a post, but I think Joanne is headed where my DH is...not to bring this particular situation up, but whenever SIL starts parenting my children in front of us, to politely ask her to stop and remind her that we are their parents. Again, and again, and again.

 

If your husband is worried about the way you handle it (and I am like you, I get mad easy, so I understand), then he really needs to be the one to talk to her. If it is important to you, and he knows that it is an issue, then he needs to man up and talk to her. If she cares about him, she will concede.

 

Personally, I would hate to have to stop and remind her over and over and over. And honestly, that is a perfect recipe for you getting angry and being more forceful than you really intend to be in the heat of the moment. If you do get "less than diplomatic", why would he want to encourage a relationship where that is almost inevitable? That's why a calm, rational discussion away from a bad moment is such a good idea.

[Candid]

I think your dh needs to tell her to knock it off. Better to tell her now, while the kids are young than to let this continue to build. She will alienate not only all the mamas but all her beloved nieces and nephews as well.

 

Also would hate to see those poor kids from the unhappy home feel unwelcome and unloved with family. I have BTDT with some young cousins that I mothered through their mother's terminal illness. If the kids' training is suffering and their home is unhappy and chaotic, then they really, really need the family to just love on them and to keep the corrections sweet.

 

:iagree:

 

I will say that if you went beyond what you've typed here and said something about her then you should apologize, but if you just told her to let their step dad handle it that was fine. It might have been better if the step dad or your sister had said that to her quietly and calmly, but it's hard at family gatherings where everything is happening quickly.

 

However, I think it would also be wise not to invite his family to your family gatherings for a while either. She obviously has a thing about this and keeping the families separate will mostly work. If it was your child's party then fine, but why a woman who is totally unrelated to these children needs to come to their party is not at all clear to me. Just don't talk up these your family only events with his family so they feel left out and it should work.

[Mimm]

Not only would I not apologize for telling her to back off, I think you were downright gracious about it compared to what I would have told her.

 

:iagree: Something needs to be said and if that means she doesn't come hang out with the family when there are small children around, then maybe that'll make for more peaceful family gatherings. There is no way in the world I would allow someone else to gripe at my children around me.

[Mandy in TN]

I would not chase her down to apologize. Leave it be.

 

However, for arguments sake I will take the other side. Now, I really would react if a stranger was trying to parenting my child, but family is different. I even have some close friends that fall into the family-is-different group. Sometimes, it is along the lines of their house their rules and sometimes it is a matter of back-up.

 

My mom has different rules than I have and her doting-anything-goes-rules hold for her home. Whatever she says goes. She buys toys and things that I wouldn't and lets them eat anything they want anywhere they want. She is also more formal about appropriate clothing. In her house, we follow her rules. (Yes, I include myself in that statement.) She doesn't like loud talk especially in public. When we are with her, we try to fall in line. She is free to call them out if they misbehave. The tons of sweets and sodas have bit her in the butt on occassion. Sometimes kids who are sugared-up have a hard time looking snazzy and keeping quiet. :001_smile:

 

I have a dear friend who is free to discipline my kids anytime especially in her home, but frankly I am fine with it anywhere. I feel this way mostly because she knows where I stand, four eyes are better than two, and I don't mind back-up.

 

However, I only see these lovely women a few times a year. I wish I had back-up mommies more often. With my big boys we all lived close and it was nice. From this point of view, it may be more important that you retain your back-up by being clear about being on the same page. If she says something about forks and you don't care, with a smile just say something like, "We are going to have a messy hand meal and hose down children later." Say it immediately and be inclusive with the we and maybe a wink. Also, away from the kids let her know that you're glad she's got your back. At that point there is no need to remind her that some things will be your call as the parent, because you already took care of that.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Kathryn]

I would talk to her but couch it in the form of an apology. "I'm sorry for being so abrupt in the heat of the moment. I should have approached you earlier and let you know that we really aren't comfortable with you scolding the kids when we are available to handle the situation. It wasn't fair for me to spring it on you in the middle of a conflict. We really appreciate how much you care for DS, and we want you to feel free to love on him and play with him while we handle the discipline."

 

If your husband is worried about the way you handle it (and I am like you, I get mad easy, so I understand), then he really needs to be the one to talk to her. If it is important to you, and he knows that it is an issue, then he needs to man up and talk to her. If she cares about him, she will concede.

 

Personally, I would hate to have to stop and remind her over and over and over. And honestly, that is a perfect recipe for you getting angry and being more forceful than you really intend to be in the heat of the moment. If you do get "less than diplomatic", why would he want to encourage a relationship where that is almost inevitable? That's why a calm, rational discussion away from a bad moment is such a good idea.

 

I agree with both of these. I think it needs to be addressed head-on, not each time it happens. I'd try to be diplomatic about it, though in my family, DH would be the one addressing it.

[PrincessMommy]

:iagree: It would have never made it to the slide incident before I was not to graciously telling her to back the heck off and allow the parents to actually, you know, parent.

 

:iagree: I think I would have stepped in a bit sooner, but I think you did a good job. I wouldn't say anything more unless this type of behavior happens again. She is WAY out of line correcting and threatening punishment.

[Little Nyssa]

I would try to do some matchmaking and get her married! She's not going to understand until she has kids of her own. I know I didn't. :blushing:

[catz]

I would try to do some matchmaking and get her married! She's not going to understand until she has kids of her own. I know I didn't. :blushing:

 

:lol: It's people like that where I hope they have a nice set of triplet boys to start their families. :D That's a really tough situation. I think I'd definitely encourage your DH to be the bad guy about it.

[Catwoman]

Not only would I not apologize for telling her to back off, I think you were downright gracious about it compared to what I would have told her.

 

:iagree:

 

Yes. This.

 

Also, why hasn't anyone ever said anything to her in the past? Why would you ever allow someone else to discipline your child????? :confused:

 

Forget about apologizing. It sounds like she is the one who owes you and the other kids' parents an apology for the way she treated all of the children.

 

Why should she be permitted to discipline the children? This makes no sense to me at all.

[Lisbeth]

QUOTE=Galatea;4071027]You can't be the only one giving and bending in a relationship, or there is no relationship to protect anyway. If she can't handle being told it's not her business/job, then she doesn't care. She may not immediately like it, but she will get over it if she values the relationship. If she doesn't get over it, does she really value the relationship with you, her own brother, or her own nephew?

 

Immediate fam comes first (that one is for DH.) The tyranny of fam! I would just rip that bandaid off. Let her pout..you did NADA wrong! I would tell her smooches, but no more parenting my kids. It lends to less frustration in the long run if I am clear, firm and direct about my boundaries. I am a firm believer in it. It also weeds out the passive aggressive types in my life. More peace for me! I wouldnt apologize or send any more msgs to her.

[swellmomma]

I would try to do some matchmaking and get her married! She's not going to understand until she has kids of her own. I know I didn't. :blushing:

 

That's because the only people who have all the answers about parenting have never been parents.

[black_midori]

I don't understand - she isn't actually disciplining the kids, hitting them, or sending them to time outs, she is just telling them what is and isn't appropriate behavior - and about things that I think we would all agree is NOT appropriate behavior & shouldn't be condoned. Eating with your hands stuff that is fork food? Not shoving other kids down the slide when they aren't ready? Not saying please? Aren't these ALL things that she probably has heard YOU say to the kids a ton of times? I know I've said them a ton of times, and I am comfortable enforcing those things with my friend's kids as well as having them enforce them with mine. Aren't we all trying to teach them good behavior? Doesn't it reinforce good behavior to have multiple people who care about a child remind them?

 

Now, I wouldn't appreciate the yelling certainly (although one persons yell is another person's stern talk). And she definitely had better not lay a hand on the kids. And she doesn't, in this situation, have the authority to send them to time outs. But she is a member of your family who cares about your kids and a consistent guest at your gatherings, not some complete stranger who randomly decides to enforce good behavior.

[swellmomma]

I don't understand - she isn't actually disciplining the kids, hitting them, or sending them to time outs, she is just telling them what is and isn't appropriate behavior - and about things that I think we would all agree is NOT appropriate behavior & shouldn't be condoned. Eating with your hands stuff that is fork food? Not shoving other kids down the slide when they aren't ready? Not saying please? Aren't these ALL things that she probably has heard YOU say to the kids a ton of times? I know I've said them a ton of times, and I am comfortable enforcing those things with my friend's kids as well as having them enforce them with mine. Aren't we all trying to teach them good behavior? Doesn't it reinforce good behavior to have multiple people who care about a child remind them?

 

Now, I wouldn't appreciate the yelling certainly (although one persons yell is another person's stern talk). And she definitely had better not lay a hand on the kids. And she doesn't, in this situation, have the authority to send them to time outs. But she is a member of your family who cares about your kids and a consistent guest at your gatherings, not some complete stranger who randomly decides to enforce good behavior.

 

I disagree, from what I am understanding of the OP A) the children's parents are right there dealing with the situations as they arise, and from the sounds of it she jumps in and ultimately ends up interupting the parent and taking over. and B) she is raising her voice and threatening punishment to children that she is not in charge of. And in the case of 1 set of those kids, this woman has no relation to them, she is the OP's SIL and is scolding the children of the OP OTHER ILs, there is no relationship there for her to be doing such a thing at the best of times imo.

 

It's not like she said at the slide "uh oh, we don't push on slides" she threatened the child with time out with yelling at her. Or the please, how hard is it is to politely prompt a toddler to say please without ripping the item away and making demands. Or using their hands at the table, that's what toddlers do. EVen if it grossed her out, she could have gentle said "suzy, where's your fork hun?" or "silly boy, we use forks not our fingers, that's too messy" NOne of those things would upset me from anyone. This woman did not approach things with these kids like that at all.

 

This woman is expecting toddlers to be making the right choices all the time and then getting angry at them when they don't. Even if it was sternness and not yelling. THey HAVE attentive parents that were already reminding them. These were not neglected children whom are never taught proper behaviour. They are toddlers just learning these things and only their parents should be the ones addressing it.

[black_midori]

It's not like she said at the slide "uh oh, we don't push on slides" she threatened the child with time out with yelling at her. Or the please, how hard is it is to politely prompt a toddler to say please without ripping the item away and making demands. Or using their hands at the table, that's what toddlers do. EVen if it grossed her out, she could have gentle said "suzy, where's your fork hun?" or "silly boy, we use forks not our fingers, that's too messy" NOne of those things would upset me from anyone. This woman did not approach things with these kids like that at all.

 

I guess maybe that's true... I can only compare to experiences I've had, and in those it is more of the polite type corrections that you say in the paragraph above. Even if the parents are there, we do this amongst my friends - Mom might be busy with another child, distracted, or just too tired from a long day to deal with it any more.

[Snickerdoodle]

Anyway, my SIL spent the entire party scolding my son and my niece and nephews over things that I didn't find important-

I took this from the OP to mean that she was nitpicking which I would find very irritating.

 

Honestly, kids just don't act perfectly all the time and you have to know when to pick your battles. Micromanaging never leads anywhere positive, imo.

[Joanne]

I don't understand - she isn't actually disciplining the kids, hitting them, or sending them to time outs, she is just telling them what is and isn't appropriate behavior - and about things that I think we would all agree is NOT appropriate behavior & shouldn't be condoned.

 

That IS discipline and I do not want or allow others that role especially when I am present.

[AmyontheFarm]

Not only would I not apologize for telling her to back off, I think you were downright gracious about it compared to what I would have told her.

:iagree:

[myfunnybunch]

It's okay to a point, but really, in the end, I'm mom.

 

I think a polite discussion along this line is in order.

 

I also think, as a non-parent, she's just not sensitive to those boundaries that we learn gradually as parents about where the boundaries are when correcting others' children. While reading your post, I found myself wondering if she's overapplying an "it takes a village" philosophy and isn't understanding that she's overstepping her bounds.

 

As a teacher, she's probably used to being around and correcting "other people's kids" all day and has some pretty strong opinions about how those "other people's kids" have been disciplined. I am not defending her in the least, btw. Nitpicking at little ones, yelling at another person's child, and trying to correct while the parent is intervening is inappropriate, and you were absolutely right to step in.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[MedicMom]

I think after talking to my husband tonight and reading these posts I (finally) hit on what was so irritating to me--my SIL is telling my son he can't do something after I've told him he can, such as eat the cake with his hands. My sisters and I had told our two-year-olds they could eat the cake with their hands(it was a picnic and we don't mind messes), and then SIL came over and starting scolding them for not using forks. She continued even after I explained we had already given them permission to make a mess. And with the slide incident, my BIL was dealing with the child already. Yelling at her and telling her she needed to go sit at the picnic table was really, really irritating to me. Yes, my BIL was more lenient than I would have been(all he did was tell her she shouldn't push and to say sorry), but it's his stepdaughter that he is raising, and I am not one to interfere with someone else's parenting.

 

I am all about reinforcing good behavior. And often my siblings are more lenient with their kids than I would be, and yeah, it annoys me, but I try to stay out of my sibling's parenting choices as none of them are neglectful or abusive. I just wish my SIL would extend that courtesy to me, even though she doesn't approve of some of our parenting decisions(like letting my son play in mud, or eat cake with his hands in a specific situation, or stay up late occasionally; all things she has corrected him for after hearing me tell him that he could).

 

After talking to DH tonight about this issue, he said he will try to nicely bring it up and just kind of say, hey, sis, we love having you around our kids and appreciate how much you love them, and we know you sometimes think we let them do things that they shouldn't but we would appreciate it if you let us make those decisions. He also said she has always been "bossy"(but that is little brother speaking...) and other parents over the years have asked her not to correct their children, and she stops for a little while but goes right back at it. DH says she has always had extremely high expectations for how children behave, and that he thinks it will all change if she has kids of her own. I know that I knew a lot more about child raising before I had children...

[Galatea]

I think after talking to my husband tonight and reading these posts I (finally) hit on what was so irritating to me--my SIL is telling my son he can't do something after I've told him he can, such as eat the cake with his hands. My sisters and I had told our two-year-olds they could eat the cake with their hands(it was a picnic and we don't mind messes), and then SIL came over and starting scolding them for not using forks. She continued even after I explained we had already given them permission to make a mess. And with the slide incident, my BIL was dealing with the child already. Yelling at her and telling her she needed to go sit at the picnic table was really, really irritating to me. Yes, my BIL was more lenient than I would have been(all he did was tell her she shouldn't push and to say sorry), but it's his stepdaughter that he is raising, and I am not one to interfere with someone else's parenting.

 

I am all about reinforcing good behavior. And often my siblings are more lenient with their kids than I would be, and yeah, it annoys me, but I try to stay out of my sibling's parenting choices as none of them are neglectful or abusive. I just wish my SIL would extend that courtesy to me, even though she doesn't approve of some of our parenting decisions(like letting my son play in mud, or eat cake with his hands in a specific situation, or stay up late occasionally; all things she has corrected him for after hearing me tell him that he could).

 

After talking to DH tonight about this issue, he said he will try to nicely bring it up and just kind of say, hey, sis, we love having you around our kids and appreciate how much you love them, and we know you sometimes think we let them do things that they shouldn't but we would appreciate it if you let us make those decisions. He also said she has always been "bossy"(but that is little brother speaking...) and other parents over the years have asked her not to correct their children, and she stops for a little while but goes right back at it. DH says she has always had extremely high expectations for how children behave, and that he thinks it will all change if she has kids of her own. I know that I knew a lot more about child raising before I had children...

 

It's really good that you guys have talked about this together. And it's good that he's going to address it with her. She is seriously overstepping though, so of course he wants to be nice, but remind him to be firm as well. If other parents have actually asked her before this not to correct their children, then it's not just a family thing, it's her thinking she knows better than anyone else, and she can think that all she wants, but it's just not right to act on it.

 

I hope the talk goes well and you have less stress over this.

[Catwoman]

It's really good that you guys have talked about this together. And it's good that he's going to address it with her. She is seriously overstepping though, so of course he wants to be nice, but remind him to be firm as well. If other parents have actually asked her before this not to correct their children, then it's not just a family thing, it's her thinking she knows better than anyone else, and she can think that all she wants, but it's just not right to act on it.

 

I hope the talk goes well and you have less stress over this.

 

:iagree:

 

Personally, I was annoyed with her before I read in your follow-up post that others have spoken with her about the same behavior. Now I just think she's nervy, bossy, and incredibly obnoxious.

 

I am amazed that you and other family members have let her get away with being such a meddling witch.

 

I'm sure she has her good points, but I would also be incredibly offended at her lack of courtesy toward all of the parents involved, as she is treating you and your relatives very disrespectfully. I would absolutely never tolerate her comments about and toward my child, and I would call her on it every single time -- and believe me, I would only be nice about it on the first few occasions. After that, all bets would be off.

[Laurie4b]

Sorry, I'm not buying the "she hasn't had her own kids yet" explanation because she has done this repeatedly with different people's kids and has been told to stop and keeps doing it. That's not ignorance; it's arrogance. She is a serial disrespector of boundaries. It would be consistent with her behavior to say it sounds like there is a bit of power tripping involved. It won't take long before your kids dislike her.

 

I agree with your plan to have dh ask her to stop before it happens again. But I would be dogged about not letting it happen.

 

Just be very black and white because she's not going to deal well in gray. She doesn't correct your kids. At all. Even a little bit. She may intervene to save them from harm. She may say nice things to them and love on them,etc. but she is never to correct them. " Scolding" is very inappropriate from anyone other than a parent. As a parent, I know that when I scold , it's not usually productive.

 

And if she's punishing you for correcting her--oh the irony! Let her pout.

[justLisa]

She sounds totally obnoxious. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

[CatholicMom]

I need more wisdom from the board...

 

My SIL(husband's sister) is in her thirties, single, childless, and set in her ways about how children should act. She is a high school teacher, so you would think that she'd have some clue as to developmental appropriateness, but she really doesn't seem to when it comes to small children. She is constantly scolding, correcting, and attempting to discipline my two-year-old and other small kids, including my nieces and nephews on my side. This happens even in front of the parents. My in-laws and my parents are close and my in-laws honorary grandparents to my nieces and nephews, so they are usually present at the birthday parties and other gatherings on my family's side. I'm thrilled my kids have such a large, loving family and everyone gets along so well, but...

 

Yesterday was my nephew's second birthday(my sister's son). My MIL and SIL were there at the party. We had three two-year-old boys(my son and my two nephews) and my 3-year-old niece(the birthday's boys older sister). I will be honest--my sister's kids have some behavioral issues. My sister left her abusive husband a year and half ago and has since remarried, but both kids show the effects of a chaotic homelife, all the rapid changes, and my niece has definite aggression issues. My sister is working with a child therapist, but they have a long way to go. Anyway, my SIL spent the entire party scolding my son and my niece and nephews over things that I didn't find important--such as my two-year-old and his two-year-old cousins eating birthday cake with their hands instead of forks, my nephew not saying "please," my niece trying to help her brother open presents. The parents were all present, but my SIL still kept scolding the kids. My sister was too polite to say anything except to quietly distract her kids elsewhere.

The final straw came on the playground. My son was hesitant in going down a slide and my niece was behind him. She grew impatient and pushed him down the slide. My SIL was standing there and yelled at my niece, threatning her with time outs and such. My son was crying so I was trying to comfort him, and my niece's step-dad was right there, trying to handle the situation with my niece himself. I finally stepped in and asked my SIL to stop and let my sister's husband handle it. My SIL walked away and soon left the party. She isn't responding to my texts or anything now, which is unusual. SIL and I were good friends long before I married my husband, and we've always hung out and things together. I know she is offended, but I really felt I needed to step in at that point.

 

My husband says SIL has always been like this--scolding and disciplining other people's children--and has always had very high expectations for young kids. I have previously asked him to talk to her about scolding/disciplining our son right in front of us, but he just says it won't change.

 

What do you think? Should I talk to her about it and nicely ask that she refrain from correcting my children when I am present? Let it go and just step in when necessary for both my son and niece and nephews? She is a very loving aunt and great SIL--and we have been friends a long time--, she just seems to be clueless when it comes to appropriate expectations for young kids.

 

Oh man. This sounds like my dh and his SIL. She is 7 yrs older than him and has always been "bossy" (she has said so herself), taking care of the other siblings and such when they were kids. But I always tell him, that's fine, but we are all adults now and it has zero bearing on whether it's OK for her to "parent" my kids. I think she has chilled out somewhat (thank goodness!) and she tended to be more lenient than we would... but same kind of thing. She would tell my kids they didn't have to eat the rest of their food before they had ice cream when I just told them they *did* have to eat before they got ice cream, etc. Wow. Same kind of person... Overbearing. It is so obnoxious AND belittling to you as a parent.

 

I didn't read what everyone else said, but I would definitely talk to her and maybe you shouldn't speak on the other parent's behalf, but I would say that as for your kids, disciplining and scolding is off-limits. Find a nice way to say it, but make sure you are clear because someone this overbearing doesn't take a clue very easily. You are the mom and the fact is it doesn't matter whether you are making mistakes or not (say, letting your kids do something that's not really great). It's not her call. And that's what she needs to understand.

 

We all know what it's like to see someone doing something with their kids that we think is absurd. The decision then is whether to over-step your bounds and say something about it when it's not your kid and not your business, or keep your mouth shut because you're not the mom (or dad).

 

Ugh. I despise bossiness.

 

My personal rule of thumb is that I don't say anything about someone else's kids' behavior problems or whatever else unless it is legitimately hurting me or my kids. But always address the parent and let them deal with their own kid unless you, or your kids, or your stuff is in imminent danger and mom can't deal with it right then (because she's in the other room or something). Otherwise, scolding someone else's kid is way over the line.

Edited July 5, 2012 by TaraJo29

[Catwoman]

Sorry, I'm not buying the "she hasn't had her own kids yet" explanation because she has done this repeatedly with different people's kids and has been told to stop and keeps doing it. That's not ignorance; it's arrogance. She is a serial disrespector of boundaries. It would be consistent with her behavior to say it sounds like there is a bit of power tripping involved. It won't take long before your kids dislike her.

 

I agree with your plan to have dh ask her to stop before it happens again. But I would be dogged about not letting it happen.

 

Just be very black and white because she's not going to deal well in gray. She doesn't correct your kids. At all. Even a little bit. She may intervene to save them from harm. She may say nice things to them and love on them,etc. but she is never to correct them. " Scolding" is very inappropriate from anyone other than a parent. As a parent, I know that when I scold , it's not usually productive.

 

And if she's punishing you for correcting her--oh the irony! Let her pout.

 

She sounds totally obnoxious. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

I don't understand why you, your dh, and apparently your other relatives are at all concerned about hurting her feelings, while it's obvious she doesn't care at all about the feelings of you or your children.

[Kirch]

I think after talking to my husband tonight and reading these posts I (finally) hit on what was so irritating to me--my SIL is telling my son he can't do something after I've told him he can, such as eat the cake with his hands. My sisters and I had told our two-year-olds they could eat the cake with their hands(it was a picnic and we don't mind messes), and then SIL came over and starting scolding them for not using forks. She continued even after I explained we had already given them permission to make a mess. And with the slide incident, my BIL was dealing with the child already. Yelling at her and telling her she needed to go sit at the picnic table was really, really irritating to me. Yes, my BIL was more lenient than I would have been(all he did was tell her she shouldn't push and to say sorry), but it's his stepdaughter that he is raising, and I am not one to interfere with someone else's parenting.

 

I am all about reinforcing good behavior. And often my siblings are more lenient with their kids than I would be, and yeah, it annoys me, but I try to stay out of my sibling's parenting choices as none of them are neglectful or abusive. I just wish my SIL would extend that courtesy to me, even though she doesn't approve of some of our parenting decisions(like letting my son play in mud, or eat cake with his hands in a specific situation, or stay up late occasionally; all things she has corrected him for after hearing me tell him that he could).

 

After talking to DH tonight about this issue, he said he will try to nicely bring it up and just kind of say, hey, sis, we love having you around our kids and appreciate how much you love them, and we know you sometimes think we let them do things that they shouldn't but we would appreciate it if you let us make those decisions. He also said she has always been "bossy"(but that is little brother speaking...) and other parents over the years have asked her not to correct their children, and she stops for a little while but goes right back at it. DH says she has always had extremely high expectations for how children behave, and that he thinks it will all change if she has kids of her own. I know that I knew a lot more about child raising before I had children...

 

This makes me twitch just reading about it! You're definitely going to have to stand your ground and intervene for your kids' sakes. I would be hopping mad if someone corrected my child for something I said he could do, especially if she continued after I let her know that he had my permission! That would earn an immediate interruption, with me getting between her and my kid and telling her to back off. I'd try to be nice if I could ...

[kitten18]

She sounds totally obnoxious. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

Ugh. I completely agree.

[elfgivas]

this is not a "higher expectations" problem.

this is not a parenting or kids/no kids problem.

 

this is a boundaries problem.

 

many people have differing levels of expectation, and don't negatively discipline other people's children, or mow their lawn, or clean their bathroom.

 

they quietly observe, and pass the bean dip.

 

fwiw,

ann