mommymonster Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 My mother is what I would call a tad difficult. To summarize things succinctly: she is under 60, in poor physical health (heart, blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, replaced knees and hips, etc) and mental health (narcissistic, passive aggressive, completely devoid of executive function). She’s also addicted to prescription painkillers and the internet. She is unable to work, and is on disability. She is unable to manage her small disability checks and my siblings and I have sporadically financially assisted her since I was 18. She is divorced, blessedly. Repeatedly, we have “caught†mother asking each of us simultaneously to pay for the same bill (and then she went and purchased “fun†items with the excess money). My siblings and I are all united in dealing with mother, and support each other in our dealings with her (one speaks for all). Each time one of us interacts with mother, we email/text/call the others to make sure that things are OK, etc. It is exhausting but necessary, as she loves to pit one against another. With our extended family (she has siblings and parents still alive), she repeatedly attached herself to one person, isolated them from us (my siblings and I), and then taken money from them. They eventually catch on, and then start talking to us again, and then distance themselves from her. She is always the victim; we are always bad (repeat, repeat, repeat). Well, she currently lives in the same city as Sister4, who is married and has two children under three. Mother has been horrible to her (which was unfortunately not unexpected), and Sister4 has begun the process of distancing herself. Mother has indicated that she is moving out of Sister4’s house at the end of the week, but has nowhere to go and is “likely moving out of state." To be very honest, Mother has run through every family member, and there is no one left for her to latch onto. She realizes she is in trouble, and is now reaching out to me again in the past two days. Our conversation today was gut-wrenching, in that she truly does not understand why it is so difficult for us to deal with her (she has the mental capacity of a 12 year old, per one psych test). She is in the “poor me†stage and keeps asking why Sister4 (and all of her children) avoid her. She just wants to have “great relationships with all her children†but can’t understand why it doesn’t work out. At this point, she has no one. She cannot live on her own, but refuses to live in a group home or even assisted living. She cannot live with any of my other siblings due to various life circumstances, and the fact that she is verbally abusive and, well, crazy. Even if I could put up with the drama, my youngest child has health issues such that it isn’t safe for them to be in the same room. The problem is, I don’t know what to do with her. She says she wants to take care of herself, but she is incompetent to do so. She lives half-way across the country. Sadly, I just don't want to have to deal with her any longer. I am wondering what I should do, quite frankly. Do I, as a daughter, have an obligation to try to do something, solely because she gave me life? Do I try to send money once a month and just pretend that’s enough? My husband is opposed to that option, which I respect. Does a person have a moral obligation to help someone that they are related to, simply due to a genetic/blood relationship? I apologize. This is long, and rambling, and probably discloses too much information. I’m just at the end of my problem solving abilities and am interested in what the Hive might, in its collective wisdom, have to throw out. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 She cannot live on her own, but refuses to live in a group home or even assisted living. Do I, as a daughter, have an obligation to try to do something, solely because she gave me life? :grouphug: Many of your mother's problems may all go back to her drug addition - much of her manipulation sounds typical of a drug addict. You (as in you and your siblings) can honor her by finding a rehab program, group home or assisted living facility and letting her know in no uncertain terms those are her options. Unless you can legally prove (which states make extremely difficult) she is a danger to herself, you can't force her to accept any of those choices. sometimes the more compassionate thing is to let her fall - and let her know you will help her find a rehab/group home/assisted living when she's ready to go to one - but she has to ask or at least be willing. and living with her children is NOT an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree. And, I really respect you and your sibs for being able to present a united front and work together as you deal with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 :grouphug: I have not been exactly where you are standing, but I have watched my family navigate the mine field that is my paternal grandmother. And I watch in increasing horror my father follow in her footsteps with a little substance abuse thrown in just for fun. Your first duty is to your immediate family, which is your spouse and children. Do not allow yourself to be guilt-ed into something that is detrimental to you or them. I believe that we should honor our parents and other elders when ever possible; sometimes that means doing what they would want if they were mentally/emotionally healthy enough to make good decisions. When I deal with my dad I often stop and ask myself what he would want if I was dealing with him and not the drug of the day. When this method fails, I do what will allow me to sleep at night. If her decision making has been shown by testing to be so impaired, would it be possible to obtain a POA that would allow you and your siblings to have her placed in a group home? Barring that, pp advice would be completely appropriate. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Two quotes come to mind: "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten." "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." It sounds like she's playing you all. It's okay to step out of the game. She won't have any reason to change if someone keeps rescuing her. I'm sorry you have to deal with her. Reading threads like these makes me glad for stable parents, and make their flaws seem pretty minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 These two things stand out to me as an obvious direction for MY response if it were MY family member, of which I have plenty of nuts that have fallen from the family tree. (she has the mental capacity of a 12 year old, per one psych test). She says she wants to take care of herself, but she is incompetent to do so As per these two things, yes, *I* would feel I must figure out a way to care for my parent. Maybe this is all due to so much damage from over drug use that it can't change even if she stopped the drugs. Maybe she turned to drugs to self medicate mental problems that have always been present. Idk. If she truly is not mentally competent to care for herself, then I could not in good conscious fail to at least try to step in legally. What that would look like is something I don't know. It would depend on what, if any options, I felt I could legally avail myself of. If I truly had no viable legal options, then I guess the question would be moot, tho I'd still feel guilty the rest of my life. That's just who I am. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It sounds to me like she's trying to play you, and get you to invite her to move in with you. I'm glad to hear you're not falling for it. If you're exhausted, take a step back from her -- either temporarily or permanently; it's your choice. Let her do whatever she wants to do, and hopefully when she hits bottom, she'll get some help. You can't force her to help herself, and you can't make her change her ways. It sounds like she is a person who will drain the life out of everyone around her, and if you're not up to the task (I wouldn't be,) I don't think there is any shame in that. If she'd always been Mother of the Year or even Halfway Decent Mom, and had recently become ill or disabled, I would give you completely different advice, but it sounds like your mom is her own worst enemy, and you can't fix that for her. And whatever you do, don't give her money. And do everything you can to stop her from driving wedges between you and your sisters. I'm sorry to sound mean and cold, but after a certain point, I think it's OK to walk away from toxic people and toxic relationships. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It sounds to me like she's trying to play you, and get you to invite her to move in with you. I'm glad to hear you're not falling for it. If you're exhausted, take a step back from her -- either temporarily or permanently; it's your choice. Let her do whatever she wants to do, and hopefully when she hits bottom, she'll get some help. You can't force her to help herself, and you can't make her change her ways. It sounds like she is a person who will drain the life out of everyone around her, and if you're not up to the task (I wouldn't be,) I don't think there is any shame in that. If she'd always been Mother of the Year or even Halfway Decent Mom, and had recently become ill or disabled, I would give you completely different advice, but it sounds like your mom is her own worst enemy, and you can't fix that for her. And whatever you do, don't give her money. And do everything you can to stop her from driving wedges between you and your sisters. I'm sorry to sound mean and cold, but after a certain point, I think it's OK to walk away from toxic people and toxic relationships. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: :iagree: and :grouphug: I am sorry you have to deal with this. I do think that the advice given about all family members banding together and giving her her options of rehab/group home/assisted living and nothing else is wise. Get together with your siblings and type out a script that each and every one of you says when she calls. No one deviates from the script. Perhaps it'll get through to her if it's coming from all sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 If it comes to getting power of attorney, your family may want to consider a special needs trust that allows SSI/Disability -- but has a trustee controlling the money instead of the disabled person. Hang in there. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 :iagree: and :grouphug: I am sorry you have to deal with this. I do think that the advice given about all family members banding together and giving her her options of rehab/group home/assisted living and nothing else is wise. Get together with your siblings and type out a script that each and every one of you says when she calls. No one deviates from the script. Perhaps it'll get through to her if it's coming from all sides. And be prepared, because she's apt to appear on one of your doorways unannounced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 If I were in this situation and I felt I needed to help, I would only help if I or a sibling could be ade her legal gardian. Then you would have control of her assets and could place her in supervised living situation. However, based on what you've said I don't think the situation would qualify for guardianship. My mother went through the process and was guardian of her sister years ago. The other way is to tell her you will help only if she signs papers giving you control over her assets and agrees to live in a facility you and your siblings choose. You and york siblings need to be together on this. You need to tell all friends and relatives she might seek help from what you are doing. When she doesn't agree and shows up at one of your home you each need to be prepared with a list of local shelters. Some people have to burn everyone and hit rock bottom before they can begin to get help. You can't fix them and giving them things they want just delays the process. Some people spend a long time isolated from family before they start to rebuild themselves. And some people dom't find their way out. You and your siblings need to be clear about what they can offer and not let yourselves be pulled down with your mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 :grouphug: Many of your mother's problems may all go back to her drug addition - much of her manipulation sounds typical of a drug addict. You (as in you and your siblings) can honor her by finding a rehab program, group home or assisted living facility and letting her know in no uncertain terms those are her options. Unless you can legally prove (which states make extremely difficult) she is a danger to herself, you can't force her to accept any of those choices. sometimes the more compassionate thing is to let her fall - and let her know you will help her find a rehab/group home/assisted living when she's ready to go to one - but she has to ask or at least be willing. and living with her children is NOT an option. :iagree: We were in a similar situation at one point in our lives. Tough love is not easy for anyone involved but sometimes it is the only choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in NC Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I am the daughter of a narcissist. I talked to a therapist friend about my guilt and "honor thy father" conflict. She is also the daughter of a preacher and know her bible stuff. She told me that all I am obligated to do is make sure he has a safe place to stay but I need not be a doormat. If you can find a group place or assisted living place and she refuses to utilize it, you should feel no guilt. You get to set the boundaries and the choices. Living with you is not a choice and you must make sure she understands you will help her only in the manner that is healthy for you. Once you set the boundaries and she whines about things, remind her it was her choice to do things the way she did them. Put the ball back in her court and do not let her play you. Hard? Heck, yeah, it is hard. I do it for my kids. They deserve a mother who is not under so much stress. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 No, no, and no! Did I mention NO? Do NOT let someone like that guilt trip or pressure you into doing something bad for YOUR mental, emotional, or physical health, and more importantly bad for your CHILD'S mental, emotional, or physical health. You have no obligation to someone like that. Let her go put herself into (or get put into) a group home or whatever. Shrug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbeccjo Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 first off ((huge hugs)) for having to deal with this in the first place I have a similar mom so maybe my response is biased! lol! but I honestly think that honoring a parent and having to feel obligated to care for them in a situation like this are two different things. In some ways its kind of like blocking a child from their natural consequences v/s allowing them to experience the consequences of their behavior. Especially if there is any sort of addictive or manipulative behavior going on. You reap what you sow, kwim? If a person spends a lifetime reaping discord and poor relationship, they cant expect the people they abused (and yes, it is a kind of abuse) to rush to their aid and help them now! Real love is not always unicorns and butterflies...sometimes real love is confronting someone about inappropriate behaviors and setting some healthy boundaries. You are one of several siblings...the burden should not rest solely on you. Maybe you do need to stretch out of your comfort zone to help her a bit, (sometimes just calling my mother weekly is something I have to gear up mentally for!) but finding a solution that keeps her safe and healthy -even if its not where she wants to be *is* honoring her. Letting her experience the natural consequences of a lifetime of bad choices can be a way of honoring her too as icky as that feels and as regardless of how that looks to people on the outside looking in! (of course at some point this post may have turned into a pep talk to myself as I struggle with similar guilt with my own mom! lol! so ignore if its not applicable!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The deal breaker is how miserably she treats you guys. So no. And I do have a lot of compassion for people with mental health issues. I also believe in helping out family. But if someone treats me like garbage I don't care who they are, I'm not putting up with it. :iagree: I'd offer her the group home option and if she refuses, you all need to walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree.And, I really respect you and your sibs for being able to present a united front and work together as you deal with her. :iagree: and :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The deal breaker is how miserably she treats you guys. So no. And I do have a lot of compassion for people with mental health issues. I also believe in helping out family. But if someone treats me like garbage I don't care who they are, I'm not putting up with it. :iagree: This will not be healthy for your marriage or your children either. You have a responsibility to them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in NC Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Another thought..... My husband forbid my father from my home. That removed the burden of guilt from me and helped me be strong is the face of manipulation. Can you have your husband put his foot down so that you are not the bad guy? I am forever grateful to my husband for taking this burden from my shoulders. "Sorry, dh will not allow you to stay with us. Here is the info for a nice assisted living place. No? Well, I don't know what to tell you. You have to choose between the assisted place and the street. I have no other options." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I would check into it to see if you can legally become her guardian. If so, then I would do it and try to put her some place safe. If you can't, then I would get the information about some place safe she could go and give her that. She can choose her own path. I would give each sibling a copy of the information on a card, so that all would be prepared if she showed up on the doorstep. Even a 12yo has the reasoning capacity to live better than what you are describing. My 12yo friend ran her family household when her father passed away and her mother developed severe mental and physical heath issues. So while that may be an explanation for some of what is happening, it is not an excuse. IMO, your only "obligation" in honoring your mother would be to provide her the option of being housed, clothed, and fed. If she rejects the only workable choice, then she suffers the consequences. (A 12yo could definitely comprehend this.) In this situation, to me, honor takes the form of researching and finding a decent option, informing her of the option and possibly providing transportation for her to get there, and periodically checking to ensure that the chosen option is a good one - that she is indeed being decently housed, clothed, and fed. (You can do this without interacting with her to gather the information.) I am strongly committed to the fact that I don't have to take abuse, physical or verbal, from anyone. I am even less tolerant when it comes to the slightest abuse of my child. If your mother can at some point interact with you in a nonabusive fashion, then I think it would be honoring to do so, to move on from the past. However, if she cannot interact with you in a nonabusive way, then I would decline the interaction. If that meant blocking calls or emails, throwing letters away unopened, etc. then so be it. It would be good for at least one of the siblings to agree to be "on call" so to speak and actually at least open letters or emails, and take calls from her. That person should have a script, such as "Are you healthy? Why are you calling? Is this an emergency?". Otherwise, they should feel as free as any of the other siblings to discontinue the interaction if it violates their boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymonster Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Thanks so much for all of the input. It provides a ton of food for thought. We have tried the assisted/group living route many, many times. We've found some lovely ones, but she always balks at the last minute. I think it is probably part of her "drama" story. We did have a power of attorney for healthcare, but she revoked it. We've also looked into guardianship. Unfortunately, it is pretty expensive even if the guardianship is uncontested. If it is contested, it is cost prohibitive for us. We're at the point where she would contest the guardianship. She has no assets. Really. When she moved in with Sister4, she had the clothes on her back. In any case, I think it's family meeting time, and then we'll see if we can navigate this <again>. I'm so glad that this will never happen to my kids. Never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Lots of good advice given already. My only comment is about you and your siblings giving her money for bills. I would never give the cash to her directly. Instead, I would offer to send a check by handling the bill directly. If it's credit card debt though, that would be too easy for her to just continue charging because she knows someone will pay it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I wish you all the best in this journey. It is incredibly difficult. My MIL has been diagnosed with BPD, and it sounds like your mother is very similar. The united front must stand, no matter what. Nothing else will get through. I agree with everyone else who says that you can present options (living at your home is NOT one of them, and you WILL have to be prepared for her to arrive at your house and expect to be let in; calling the cops needs to be something you will do if necessary) and then walk away. A leopard of this sort will not change its spots. You have my sincere sympathy. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I honestly think that honoring a parent and having to feel obligated to care for them in a situation like this are two different things. Real love is not always unicorns and butterflies...sometimes real love is confronting someone about inappropriate behaviors and setting some healthy boundaries. finding a solution that keeps her safe and healthy -even if its not where she wants to be *is* honoring her. Letting her experience the natural consequences of a lifetime of bad choices can be a way of honoring her too as icky as that feels and as regardless of how that looks to people on the outside looking in! ) :iagree: honoring and obligation are two different things. allowing someone to experience the negative consequences of bad choices is hard, but sometimes MORE compassionate as how else will they learn those are bad choices and maybe they should change? honoring is about making sure her needs are met. Her needs would be met in a rehab/group home/assisted living. it's not what she wants, but her needs are met and that's life. you and your siblings are not obligated to invite into your homes a woman who is seriously dysfunctional and negative influence upon your families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.