Tragic accident....

[BatmansWife]

This family (a widow with 12 kids who used to homeschool) lives a few hours from us, so it's on the news a lot right now. Just tragic. I have real mixed emotions about this because.....I feel very sorry for this family.....but, I just do.not understand what they were thinking?? :confused: A 17-year old driving with a 16-year old in the passenger seat (the only 2 of 18 buckled up). They said this souped-up rv, pulling a fully loaded trailer, was over 80 feet long. Also, I don't understand how they could think that it's a good idea to load 18 people (mostly kids) in an rv....go on a big trip from MN to TX....and.not.buckle.up. :eek:

Gosh....what that poor 17-year old boy will have to live with for the rest of his life. :crying:

I don't know. I'm so sad for these people....yet I'm mad too. I just don't understand the.......dare I say it?.....stupidity. I hope I don't get flamed for saying that about these poor people. :sad:

[besroma]

That is so incredibly sad.

[StaceyinLA]

I have to agree with you though; it is just plain ignorant not to use seat belts. I would not allow my kids to travel in a vehicle that didn't have them. Terribly sad!

[gardening momma]

:001_huh: A teenager with a provisional license (heck, any teen, no matter what kind of license) should not be driving a vehicle like that with passengers, and especially without direct [experienced] adult supervision. Inexperienced driver, huge vehicle...no.

[Joker]

I think it's a horrible accident and we shouldn't now be discussing what they might have done wrong. My younger brother (20 yrs old) was killed in a car accident because he was sleeping in the back seat of truck and not buckled in. My dad, who was driving and was buckled, died as well. The other vehicle ran a stop sign, so I don't really know if the seatbelt would have mattered all that much. I do know I would not have done very well with others deciding what he should have done and discussing it. What we were dealing with was hard enough without all of that. I feel so much for what this family is going through and they're in my prayers.

[kalanamak]

That is so incredibly sad.

 

Ekk, what a disaster.

 

Why is homeschooling necessary to be mentioned? Why not mention they have great baritone voices?

[BatmansWife]

I have to agree with you though; it is just plain ignorant not to use seat belts. I would not allow my kids to travel in a vehicle that didn't have them. Terribly sad!

 

Looking at the ages, some should have been in carseats too.

I think it's a horrible accident and we shouldn't now be discussing what they might have done wrong. My younger brother (20 yrs old) was killed in a car accident because he was sleeping in the back seat of truck and not buckled in. My dad, who was driving and was buckled, died as well. The other vehicle ran a stop sign, so I don't really know if the seatbelt would have mattered all that much. I do know I would not have done very well with others deciding what he should have done and discussing it. What we were dealing with was hard enough without all of that. I feel so much for what this family is going through and they're in my prayers.

 

I'm very sorry for the loss of your father and brother. :grouphug: I'm sorry if this post caused you any sadness. I just think it's so tragic that things that seem like they should be common sense were ignored and 5 people are dead because of it, 3 of them children. And, possibly more will die since some are in critical condition.

[jessicamcc]

Oh, how incredibly sad! And they had already lost their father in 2006. I can't imagining losing a child; my heart just aches for the mom.

[Joker]

Looking at the ages, some should have been in carseats too.

 

 

 

I'm very sorry for the loss of your father and brother. :grouphug: I'm sorry if this post caused you any sadness. I just think it's so tragic that things that seem like they should be common sense were ignored and 5 people are dead because of it, 3 of them children. And, possibly more will die since some are in critical condition.

 

 

What you deem 'common sense' they may not. It does no one any good to second guess and lay guilt at this point. States have different laws about seat belts, car seats, and the type of vehicle they are necessary in. Those that were of an age to be in car seats were ok, according to the article linked. I just don't get why we feel it's ok to discuss and place guilt in these types of situations. It's horrible and this family doesn't deserve recriminations. At least, I don't think they do. I'm sure the surviving family members are placing enough guilt on themselves without strangers adding to it.

[Rtcrmine]

First off that is so incredibly sad. I can't even imagine the pain they must be experiencing. Second I agree with Horton. I'm sure they would give anything to go back in time, But now is not a time to point out what they already know was a mistake.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

What you deem 'common sense' they may not. It does no one any good to second guess and lay guilt at this point. States have different laws about seat belts, car seats, and the type of vehicle they are necessary in. Those that were of an age to be in car seats were ok, according to the article linked. I just don't get why we feel it's ok to discuss and place guilt in these types of situations. It's horrible and this family doesn't deserve recriminations. At least, I don't think they do. I'm sure the surviving family members are placing enough guilt on themselves without strangers adding to it.

 

 

Someone should be held responsible for letting a 17-yr old boy drive a vehicle that he was not legally licensed to drive. I do not blame the young man at all, and my sympathies are with him and what he is going through. The person who put him that situation should expect criticism and likely some criminal charges.

[joannqn]

Very sad.

 

 

One of DH's former bosses liked to take his employees and their families on vacations as a business expense. Once they wanted to rent us all RVs and caravan somewhere. I don't remember where. But given that RVs don't have to have car seats, and their seats aren't designed to properly secure one, we declined. I think they thought we were being overly cautious, but the plan never happened.

[texascamps]

Someone should be held responsible for letting a 17-yr old boy drive a vehicle that he was not legally licensed to drive. I do not blame the young man at all, and my sympathies are with him and what he is going through. The person who put him that situation should expect criticism and likely some criminal charges.

 

 

I do not see how criminal charges would be helpful in any way, except to pad the wallet of the lawyers having to defend the family members. I've never seen litigation or the criminal justice system bring the dead back to life.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I do not see how criminal charges would be helpful in any way, except to pad the wallet of the lawyers having to defend the family members. I've never seen litigation or the criminal justice system bring the dead back to life.

 

So we let someone off because their callous disregard for common sense and the law only killed their family members? I would wager that most reckless drivers who kill someone feel badly after the fact. Should they always be let off as well?

[RanchGirl]

Someone should be held responsible for letting a 17-yr old boy drive a vehicle that he was not legally licensed to drive. I do not blame the young man at all, and my sympathies are with him and what he is going through. The person who put him that situation should expect criticism and likely some criminal charges.

 

That is completely untrue. The article says that he had the required professional driver's license he needed to drive the vehicle; there was a restriction on his license was that passengers must be wearing seat belts. Typical RVs don't have 18 seatbelts, maybe 6-8 at most, but I'm not sure about their converted semi-trailer. I wouldn't ride in an RV without wearing a seatbelt, but I think it is pretty common.

 

They sound like a wonderful family, I'm so sad for their loss. I saw pictures of the crash scene and I am amazed anyone survived at all.

[sbgrace]

He was legally licensed/able to drive that vehicle according to this article. http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/minnesota/license-loophole-allowed-teen-to-drive-rv-apr-2-2012

 

I saw another article sayubg these kids were driving from 10 onward on their property and the 17 year old was an extremely confident and competent driver. This article says tires blew out on five occasions on the way there. http://www.startribune.com/local/145753205.html?page=1&c= Perhaps that happened again and he lost control.

 

It looks like the vehicle didn't have seat belts outside of the front driver/passenger which is legal there too it looks like. Was it a converted semi?

 

I'm sure the family and that poor boy should he survive are going to have a lot of what if things.

 

When I lost a brother in law in a car accident people fished around for or even outright asked what he did wrong (ie, was he wearing his seat belt? was he speeding? and on). I think it's human nature. I agree it can add pain.

 

How incredibly tragic.

Edited April 3, 2012 by sbgrace

[RanchGirl]

So we let someone off because their callous disregard for common sense and the law only killed their family members? I would wager that most reckless drivers who kill someone feel badly after the fact. Should they always be let off as well?

 

I'm sure they regret many things that could have avoided this accident, but we just don't have enough facts at this point to be the judge and jury.

 

I have read that some of their children are homeschooled. They may well read this board in the midst of their grieving. I hope they don't come across this kind of callous disregard for common decency and compassion.

Edited April 3, 2012 by RanchGirl

[A.Balaban]

I don't think RV's normally have any seatbelts except for the front. I've never been in one, so I could be mistaken.

 

Now, I realize I am talking to a board of homeschool moms... but you do realize that students take BUSES to school with no seatbelts, right?

 

We can talk about the inexperienced driver, or the careless mom, but the fact remains this is a terrible tragedy. I will pray for their recovery.

[HiddenJewel]

We can talk about the inexperienced driver, or the careless mom, but the fact remains this is a terrible tragedy. I will pray for their recovery.

 

And we do not know that he was inexperienced. If he is a farm kid he could easily have been driving for 7-10 years prior to this.

 

You make an excellent point about school buses!

[melissad2]

Depends on the RV...we have looked at many and most have seatbelts in the back on the couch and on any recliners that are present. I don't know how they measure up safety wise but I have seen them.

 

I don't know what homeschooling has to do with anything though. It was a tragic accident that never should have happened.

 

Some people seem to be missing that little voice on their heads that says "bad idea, bad idea"...

[DawnM]

How horrible.

[KnitWit]

This is a very sad story.

 

The reports we have seen are not saying it was an RV but actually a customized bus...like the kind that bands and stars tour on.

[Carrie12345]

Guilt and blame may be painful and pointless for the family, but discussing the questionable choices could potentially help another family.

 

I always cringe when I see the Duggars rolling along with questionable safety measures.

[QuirkyKapers]

:sad: Very sad

[Mimm]

Apparently it wasn't required to have seat belts except for the front seats? So when they had the seat belts, they used them... That's a lot of kids, so they probably looked for different vehicles to get around. Though this probably wasn't their normal run to the store type vehicle? I don't know. When my parents had a lot of kids at home they drove an old limo-type bus. The seats faces in and went around the edge and did not have seatbelts. Of course, they weren't letting their 17 year old drive it, but families with lots of kids tend to lean heavily on their oldest children and if this woman was widowed, she probably did so even more. Anyway, all that to say that I wouldn't call them stupid, but that the practicalities of their life (with so many of them) led them to make certain decisions which led to a very tragic ending.

[BatmansWife]

I just think it's so tragic that things that seem like they should be common sense were ignored

 

What you deem 'common sense' they may not. It does no one any good to second guess and lay guilt at this point. States have different laws about seat belts, car seats, and the type of vehicle they are necessary in. Those that were of an age to be in car seats were ok, according to the article linked. I just don't get why we feel it's ok to discuss and place guilt in these types of situations. It's horrible and this family doesn't deserve recriminations. At least, I don't think they do. I'm sure the surviving family members are placing enough guilt on themselves without strangers adding to it.

 

I said it would "seem like they should be common sense"....since I realize that some people don't think that way.

That is completely untrue. The article says that he had the required professional driver's license he needed to drive the vehicle; there was a restriction on his license was that passengers must be wearing seat belts. Typical RVs don't have 18 seatbelts, maybe 6-8 at most, but I'm not sure about their converted semi-trailer. I wouldn't ride in an RV without wearing a seatbelt, but I think it is pretty common.

 

They sound like a wonderful family, I'm so sad for their loss. I saw pictures of the crash scene and I am amazed anyone survived at all.

 

:iagree: I'm amazed that 18 aren't dead.

 

He was legally licensed/able to drive that vehicle according to this article. http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/minnesota/license-loophole-allowed-teen-to-drive-rv-apr-2-2012

 

I saw another article sayubg these kids were driving from 10 onward on their property and the 17 year old was an extremely confident and competent driver. This article says tires blew out on five occasions on the way there. http://www.startribune.com/local/145753205.html?page=1&c= Perhaps that happened again and he lost control.

 

It looks like the vehicle didn't have seat belts outside of the front driver/passenger which is legal there too it looks like. Was it a converted semi?

 

I'm sure the family and that poor boy should he survive are going to have a lot of what if things.

 

When I lost a brother in law in a car accident people fished around for or even outright asked what he did wrong (ie, was he wearing his seat belt? was he speeding? and on). I think it's human nature. I agree it can add pain.

 

How incredibly tragic.

 

There were already 5 tire blowouts? Then again....I don't think a 17-year old should have been behind the wheel...even if he'd been driving farm trucks for years.

Human nature. I think that's true. I think people get afraid of such a thing some day happening to them or people they love. So, they say.....they had a young person behind the wheel driving such a huge rig......ok, I won't ever do that. They weren't wearing seatbelts.....ok, I will always make sure that everyone is buckled up. And, yes....you can still be involved in an accident that kills people even if you have years of driving experience and even if you are buckled up. But....I think this is just the way the mind thinks.

I'm sure they regret many things that could have avoided this accident, but we just don't have enough facts at this point to be the judge and jury.

 

I have read that some of their children are homeschooled. They may well read this board in the midst of their grieving. I hope they don't come across this kind of callous disregard for common decency and compassion.

 

They homeschooled years ago, I don't think they would be checking this board. And, if they do....they'll know how sorry we all feel that this tragedy happened. :grouphug: & :crying: . I really don't see that any of us have a "callous disregard for common decency and compassion". :confused:

[swellmomma]

Depends on the RV...we have looked at many and most have seatbelts in the back on the couch and on any recliners that are present. I don't know how they measure up safety wise but I have seen them.

 

I don't know what homeschooling has to do with anything though. It was a tragic accident that never should have happened.

 

Some people seem to be missing that little voice on their heads that says "bad idea, bad idea"...

 

That might be true if they had bought a conventional RV but the article said it was a converted semi so I doubt they had many installed, though aside from the front seats they must have had some since they used car seats for the littlest ones.

 

I agree with the pp that said it is surprising anyone survived seeing pictures of that accident scene. So tragic.

[BatmansWife]

That might be true if they had bought a conventional RV but the article said it was a converted semi so I doubt they had many installed, though aside from the front seats they must have had some since they used car seats for the littlest ones.

 

I agree with the pp that said it is surprising anyone survived seeing pictures of that accident scene. So tragic.

 

I didn't read that any kids were in carseats. I think the only two buckled up at all were the driver and front passenger.

[gardening momma]

Guilt and blame may be painful and pointless for the family, but discussing the questionable choices could potentially help another family.

:iagree:

 

It doesn't matter how much driving around the farm he did. I doubt he had much experience with an RV/converted semi/tour bus.

 

And I also cringe to think of all those school buses without seatbelts.

[BatmansWife]

:iagree:

 

It doesn't matter how much driving around the farm he did. I doubt he had much experience with an RV/converted semi/tour bus.

 

And I also cringe to think of all those school buses without seatbelts.

 

:iagree:

I don't understand that. And....Greyhound type busses. Last year I went with my dd's on a Greyhound to the MOA. It wasn't until we were in the bus sitting down that I realized there were no seatbelts. It was a really weird feeling for me riding without a seatbelt, let alone knowing my dd's were not buckled up either (you make sure they are buckled in since they were born...it's just a rule). Then, on the way home there was a snow storm....so it was unnerving. I don't know that I would ever do that again.

[dani3boys]

How tragic! They are two hours from me and just ten minutes away from my brother.

Edited April 3, 2012 by dani3boys

[Aelwydd]

What you deem 'common sense' they may not. It does no one any good to second guess and lay guilt at this point. States have different laws about seat belts, car seats, and the type of vehicle they are necessary in. Those that were of an age to be in car seats were ok, according to the article linked. I just don't get why we feel it's ok to discuss and place guilt in these types of situations. It's horrible and this family doesn't deserve recriminations. At least, I don't think they do. I'm sure the surviving family members are placing enough guilt on themselves without strangers adding to it.

 

Trying to guilt others into silence is also wrong. Nobody can learn or take anything away from this if choices that led to an unsafe situation are never examined. That's the foundation of critical thinking. It's very sad for the family that they lost several family members; however, it's not wrong or misplaced for others to investigate and find out what happened.

 

There are many fatalities that happen every year due to someone's poor judgment, or ignorance, or sometimes, just plain negligence. While it's difficult for family members, I don't think that should excuse them from examination to determine if anything criminal happened. Having a 17 year old, on a restricted license, driving that kind of vehicle, would qualify as "illegal" in a large number of states.

[dani3boys]

.

[BatmansWife]

How tragic! They are two hours from me and just ten minutes away from my brother.

 

We are about 2 hours from them too.

 

Trying to guilt others into silence is also wrong. Nobody can learn or take anything away from this if choices that led to an unsafe situation are never examined. That's the foundation of critical thinking. It's very sad for the family that they lost several family members; however, it's not wrong or misplaced for others to investigate and find out what happened.

 

There are many fatalities that happen every year due to someone's poor judgment, or ignorance, or sometimes, just plain negligence. While it's difficult for family members, I don't think that should excuse them from examination to determine if anything criminal happened. Having a 17 year old, on a restricted license, driving that kind of vehicle, would qualify as "illegal" in a large number of states.

 

Well said.

[dani3boys]

We are about 2 hours from them too.

 

 

 

I wonder how close we live to each other? I'm in SE MN.

[catz]

I actually went to high school with some extended members of this family. Friends on FB know them more personally.

 

It's a horrible tragedy and this family gets to live with the consequences of it for the rest of their lives. I don't see the point of 2nd guessing as an outsider. If there was wrongdoing involved, it will come out.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I always cringe when I see the Duggars rolling along with questionable safety measures.

 

Honestly, this was what I was reminded of as soon as I heard about the accident. I had to stop watching the Duggar shows because I couldn't stand to see how unsafe they were when driving and actually, in many other situations.

[Hannah C.]

How horrible.

 

I agree with some previous posters - it's a miracle anyone survived, seeing what the vehicle looked like after the crash. :( Without more details as to how injuries happened, I wonder if seatbelts would have helped or not.

 

It also sounds like MN allows for people to be without seatbelts in cars in most cases, which is very different from TX. If it wasn't for the provision on the 17yo's driver's license, the lack of seatbelts would have been completely legal (with the possible exception of the littles).

[Aelwydd]

How horrible.

 

I agree with some previous posters - it's a miracle anyone survived, seeing what the vehicle looked like after the crash. :( Without more details as to how injuries happened, I wonder if seatbelts would have helped or not.

 

It also sounds like MN allows for people to be without seatbelts in cars in most cases, which is very different from TX. If it wasn't for the provision on the 17yo's driver's license, the lack of seatbelts would have been completely legal (with the possible exception of the littles).

 

The question in my mind isn't whether it was legal in MN for a 17 yo to be driving that vehicle, and with so many unbuckled passengers. The question is whether it is legal in Kansas, where the accident occurred. Just because one state is lax doesn't mean another will be equally forgiving. For example, my nephew can ride around in a car in this state without being in booster seat. In the next state over, he has to be in a booster until he's 8 yo.

 

If we were taking a trip to Florida, and driving through LA to get there, it doesn't matter that in TX it's legal for him to go without a booster. In LA, the laws are different, and we would be accountable for abiding by them.

[Aelwydd]

I actually went to high school with some extended members of this family. Friends on FB know them more personally.

 

It's a horrible tragedy and this family gets to live with the consequences of it for the rest of their lives. I don't see the point of 2nd guessing as an outsider. If there was wrongdoing involved, it will come out.

 

We're not second-guessing, or at least I'm not. I'm discussing what is known, and asking questions about what is not known.

[coffeefreak]

What you deem 'common sense' they may not. It does no one any good to second guess and lay guilt at this point. States have different laws about seat belts, car seats, and the type of vehicle they are necessary in. Those that were of an age to be in car seats were ok, according to the article linked. I just don't get why we feel it's ok to discuss and place guilt in these types of situations. It's horrible and this family doesn't deserve recriminations. At least, I don't think they do. I'm sure the surviving family members are placing enough guilt on themselves without strangers adding to it.

 

:iagree:

Seatbelts don't always save lives, even in RVs.

 

I learned how to haul a trailer, although admittedly not a semi type trailer, at 16. I don't think his age has anything to do with it. Accidents happen. My Grandfather rolled his car once hauling his large camper, and he was in his late 60s. Thankfully, everyone had minor injuries, but the point is, it's always easy for us to judge when we're not called to. It was an accident. Plain and simple.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

:iagree:

Seatbelts don't always save lives, even in RVs.

 

I learned how to haul a trailer, although admittedly not a semi type trailer, at 16. I don't think his age has anything to do with it. Accidents happen. My Grandfather rolled his car once hauling his large camper, and he was in his late 60s. Thankfully, everyone had minor injuries, but the point is, it's always easy for us to judge when we're not called to. It was an accident. Plain and simple.

 

 

Age and training certainly do play a role. A 17-year old really has no business driving a vehicle of that size with that many people in it on the open road, and there is a reason why it is not legal in most states.

It was an accident, but one that was potentially avoidable. Sadly, some family members have paid with their lives, and this young man will be stuck with the guilt. I do not fault him - I fault whomever made the ignorant decision of giving him that much responsibility.

This also didn't occur on private property/the farm. Putting a 17-year old in this position was also needlessly risking the lives of others on the road, and that decision should be questioned and criticized.

[coffeefreak]

Putting a 17-year old in this position was also needlessly risking the lives of others on the road, and that decision should be questioned and criticized.

 

Why? Who named us judge and jury? It's easy to question and criticize when it's not our own family, or someone we know. What about compassion and mercy?

[Princess Peach]

Age and training certainly do play a role. A 17-year old really has no business driving a vehicle of that size with that many people in it on the open road, and there is a reason why it is not legal in most states.

It was an accident, but one that was potentially avoidable. Sadly, some family members have paid with their lives, and this young man will be stuck with the guilt. I do not fault him - I fault whomever made the ignorant decision of giving him that much responsibility.

 

They all are.

 

This also didn't occur on private property/the farm. Putting a 17-year old in this position was also needlessly risking the lives of others on the road, and that decision should be questioned and criticized.

 

To what end?

[Aelwydd]

Why? Who named us judge and jury? It's easy to question and criticize when it's not our own family, or someone we know. What about compassion and mercy?

 

We're a democracy, we ostensibly still have some say in the make-up of our laws. Call me judgmental if you like, but I fully support public discussion of whether it should be legal for young, inexperienced teen drivers to drive semis and large RVs on the same roads on which I'm driving with my family.

 

It's a tragedy what happened to this family, but make no mistake. Had he driven that vehicle across the double yellow lines instead of off the road, and killed others, those victims' families would hardly be expected to just swallow that it's "just an accident" and nobody should judge.

 

I don't ever accept the "just don't judge" argument anyway. It's a non sequitur; just because the victims were contained to the driver's family, does not mean that the choices and situation that led to this tragedy are somehow above investigation or questioning. That reasoning is the antithesis of the reasoned, critical thinking process anyway.

[Aelwydd]

They all are.

 

 

 

To what end?

 

To understand if laws are adequate to protect against poor judgment, and to determine if they should be changed, or if there needs to be better public education. In other words, to work to prevent similar occurrences from happening.

[Princess Peach]

To understand if laws are adequate to protect against poor judgment, and to determine if they should be changed, or if there needs to be better public education. In other words, to work to prevent similar occurrences from happening.

 

Ok, but Chocolate said that the decision [to allow the boy to drive] should be questioned and criticized, not the law that makes it legal.

[Aelwydd]

Ok, but Chocolate said that the decision [to allow the boy to drive] should be questioned and criticized, not the law that makes it legal.

 

I see your point.

 

I have my own opinion about an older adult deeming this to be an acceptable risk, but they are the ones who have to live with that choice. Not me. So, in that sense, I agree with you that it's futile to judge them or to say how foolish, or whatever. Clearly, if they could go back and make a different choice, I'm sure they would. I certainly don't regard the 17 yo driver with anything but compassion.

 

My criticism here though has been solely about the legality of the situation, and how such a situation could be considered "good" for public safety.

[coffeefreak]

We're a democracy, we ostensibly still have some say in the make-up of our laws. Call me judgmental if you like, but I fully support public discussion of whether it should be legal for young, inexperienced teen drivers to drive semis and large RVs on the same roads on which I'm driving with my family.

 

It's a tragedy what happened to this family, but make no mistake. Had he driven that vehicle across the double yellow lines instead of off the road, and killed others, those victims' families would hardly be expected to just swallow that it's "just an accident" and nobody should judge.

 

I don't ever accept the "just don't judge" argument anyway. It's a non sequitur; just because the victims were contained to the driver's family, does not mean that the choices and situation that led to this tragedy are somehow above investigation or questioning. That reasoning is the antithesis of the reasoned, critical thinking process anyway.

 

AH, but the OP was not about the laws and that there should be one. It was about the "stupidity" of the family, and most of the posts since have been along the same vein. You're absolutely right, if he had injured or killed other people outside the family, the talk would be different. That's why we now have no texting laws. If this were a thread discussing that there ought to be a law, I would not have a problem with the discussion. What I have a problem with, is the verbal attack on a family that is still in the hospital, in critical condition, that now has to put the pieces back together after a horrible accident.

 

Start a new thread where we discuss the changes that should be made to the laws, and I'll be on board.

[Aelwydd]

AH, but the OP was not about the laws and that there should be one. It was about the "stupidity" of the family, and most of the posts since have been along the same vein. You're absolutely right, if he had injured or killed other people outside the family, the talk would be different. That's why we now have no texting laws. If this were a thread discussing that there ought to be a law, I would not have a problem with the discussion. What I have a problem with, is the verbal attack on a family that is still in the hospital, in critical condition, that now has to put the pieces back together after a horrible accident.

 

Start a new thread where we discuss the changes that should be made to the laws, and I'll be on board.

 

I don't think the OP ever expressed anything but mixed feelings in her posts, and I don't think she called them "stupid." But, yeah, I get what you're saying about the general sentiment expressed. I don't think it was a particularly wise decision, myself, but hindsight is 20/20 as they say. And nobody can make this family feel worse about it than they already do, nor would I want to try.

 

I just am fairly amazed that MN allows such young drivers to be able to drive such large vehicles. I generally think of those vehicles as being restricted class, and therefore requiring a certain age and/or training beforehand. I think that that state should revisit those regulations in light of this accident.