Immunization rant and is there anything I can do?

[Mynyel]

So... we went to California for a visit with my family.

 

Less than a week into the two week visit, ds3 was running around in the front yard and stepped on a straight pin. It went through his foot.

 

Well we couldn't get it out (we didn't know which way it went in, as it was at an angle) so I went to the local emergency room there.

 

They took it out. They mentioned he won't need a tetanus shot because at his age he has been inoculated for it. I told them we haven't done immunizations so he will need a tetanus. I knew he would need one as it was a puncture wound and it was in his foot about 3 hours before it was taken out.

 

I repeatedly told them I knew he would need a *tetanus* shot. *Tetanus*.

 

Well they gave me a yellow immunization card and I stuck it in my purse. I didn't think anything of it. I knew he had received the tetanus so I figured that was what the card was for.

 

Imagine my surprise when I get home and empty my purse and look at it and it was DTaP!! *NOT* just tetanus. I am not happy. To put it mildly. Why did they do that? I didn't want DTaP. I wanted tetanus only. They did *NOT* tell me it would be DTaP. I feel lied to and taken advantage of.

 

Do I have any recourse?

[staceyobu]

I not sure if you can get just tetanus. For some reason I'm thinking they only make dt and dtap shots. They still should have told you that, though.

 

Edit... Ok, I was right and wrong. You can get just tetanus, but I think it's only approved for kids over 7 years. He could have been given a DT shot, though. I'm wondering if they only stock dtap..,

Edited March 21, 2012 by staceyobu

[SonshineLearner]

They would have had to use a booster Tetanus, I think... As most people get the Tetanus shot with other vaccines.... When we did Tetanus, it was a difficult shot to get with JUST Tetanus....

[sparkygirl]

There is a tetanus only vaccine for children under 7, it is a special order vaccine as most hospitals and clinics are now carrying only Tdap particularly in California due to the high incidences of pertussis. You should have had to sign an informed consent document stating the exact vaccine your child was given. If you did not sign this informed consent for Tdap and it was still administered to your child then yes you would have a course of action to pursue.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Gently, I think, since your position on vaccinations is not "the norm," that it would have been your place to inform them that you didn't want the rest of what normally accompanies the tetanus. Clearly, it didn't occur to you, as I'm sure your position didn't occur to them. Assumptions on both sides, but I do feel that the fault is yours, as an advocate for your particular needs/wishes for your kid. Sorry. Hope your child is fine. :grouphug:

[NicAnn]

I'm sorry you were not listened to. That is such a hard thing to deal with, especially in relation to your child's health!

 

First (haven't researched since dd was a baby)- if I remember correctly the tetanus only vaccine is not common and many places just don't carry it. You should have been told that, clearly, by whomever was treating your son. And they could have given you the choice or Tetanus/diphtheria, as many people object specifically to the Pertussis component of the vax. I'm sorry they didn't tell you that and that you were basically lied to.

 

Second--

 

Do I have any recourse?

 

Not much, unfortunately. Do you have a vax exemption already in place? Basically all you can do is file a complaint (which I would do for sure) with the hospital. You can cause as much noise as you want, but do not expect anything. :(

[Mynyel]

There is a tetanus only vaccine for children under 7, it is a special order vaccine as most hospitals and clinics are now carrying only Tdap particularly in California due to the high incidences of pertussis. You should have had to sign an informed consent document stating the exact vaccine your child was given. If you did not sign this informed consent for Tdap and it was still administered to your child then yes you would have a course of action to pursue.

 

 

Should I have received a copy of this document? I don't remember. I have the discharge papers but no documentation on the immunization other than the yellow card.

[Aelwydd]

They probably thought they were giving you what you wanted--a tetanus shot, that just happens to be bundled with something else. A lot of offices and health care facilities don't necessarily carry tetanus-only vaccines for that age. Why would they, when most folks just get the DtaP?

 

They should have mentioned it though, because there are a lot kids who have a bad reaction to the pertussis vaccine.

 

I'm not surprised they just gave the shot and sent you on your way. I have a mighty poor opinion of most ER professionals, for my own reasons.

[NicAnn]

Oh, and for the future- get an exemption. Whatever is allowed in your state, and one that you've written and signed stating why you don't want child X getting whatever vaccines. Keep it with you in your purse and don't be afraid to wave it around at the drs office/emergency room. Some people need to be told very firmly.

[sbgrace]

If it actually occurred to them to do tetanus only (I think it probably didn't) I'm betting they didn't have a tetanus only vax. I don't think they are easy to get/readily accessible. I'm also not sure what age they can be used and know they have mercury. You probably actually wanted tetanus immune globulin though I've never heard of anyone getting that for injury (though it would be more appropriate maybe if you didn't mind the contents/I would mind as it's a human blood product with the risks associated with that).

 

 

Anyway I can see why you're upset. If it helps you feel at all better there are some positives. The tetanus only has thimerosal for sure I believe. He may have gotten a thimerosal free dpt if that's one of your concerns. Also, he has some pertussis protection now. It's one disease he might well get and it's not one I'd want to deal with. When my son had to get tetanus (and got dpt as well though with my knowledge) after an injury that's what I told myself anyway! My son did have a reaction to that shot (skin).

Edited March 21, 2012 by sbgrace

[SonshineLearner]

Gently, I think, since your position on vaccinations is not "the norm," that it would have been your place to inform them that you didn't want the rest of what normally accompanies the tetanus. Clearly, it didn't occur to you, as I'm sure your position didn't occur to them. Assumptions on both sides, but I do feel that the fault is yours, as an advocate for your particular needs/wishes for your kid. Sorry. Hope your child is fine. :grouphug:

 

I don't believe this to be true, in most places at least. You have to specifically sign for the vaccines your child is given. If the sheet says "tetanus" and you were given another shot, that's not the fault of the parents.... but rather the DR or Nurse. I did hear one thing and sign another... at an appt once... and that was my fault as I initialed for it.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

First off I am sorry they did that!!!!

 

Secondly it makes me sick how Dr.'s are brainwashed as well as R.N.'s and Health Dept. workers ( especially) to vaccinate every child to prevent terrible diseases.

 

Now I know I am no expert, but hear this: My first 2 had every shot under the sun... my ds had terrible reactions and possible brain damage from having so many at one time ( 3 shots in each leg was the worst ) and I was so young and naive, but still asked questions and did not get any information I was looking for.

 

Fast forward to 3rd child, who got Hep b in the hospital and no more! My Postmaster who is in our Food co-op brought me some books to read and they helped me along with a book by a regular Pediatrician that my RN sister loaned me, to choose to put off and at least spread out some of the vaccines and refusing some.

 

Our Pediatrician was great to listen and respected our decisions. ( My dear father was also diagnosed with CLL and told to not be around anyone who had been vaccinated recently)

So, he was going to spread them out.... Then he up and moved!!! Oh they told us he would get a replacement within a few months.... 10 years later there is not a Pediatrician close by or any in the nearest big town ( with many) who take any new patients!!!!

 

My ds who had all those shots, stepped on a concrete block wall on our new residence and it had rusted metal all along the side of it. He had a big gash, and blood pouring out. My dad took him to ER ( only place open on the weekend) and I assumed they gave him a Tetanus shot only. Now I have no idea what they gave him, and it had been a few years since he had any vaccines so I was for the Tetanus shot.

 

Here is the kicker: About 2 years ago, the same ds who had all his shots and an extra ??Tetanus shot got very ill, lethargic and lost 10 lbs. in a few days, could not swallow and complained of his throat swelling, and when I looked inside his tonsils wer completely Grey and very swollen. I had my dh take him to the Dr. and he said he might have mono and did a test, prescribed antibiotics and he took them. My Merck Manual for children listed Diptheria as the disease he had many of the symptoms for. Including chest pains, swollen lymph glands and the GREY throat.

 

I feel very sure he had Diptheria and the mono test was negative.

 

How did this happen with all of those vaccines?

 

Could be the same way the only vaccinated ones got Pertussis as small children, and then the same ds was lighting big Fireworks on the Fourth a few years ago, and developed a hacking cough. It started keeping him and everyone up at night, so I had my dh take him to the same Dr. and he said he had allergies and prescribed allergy medicine!!! I knew this was not so, and guess what?????????? We ALL developed PERTUSSIS!!!!!! I had a baby at the time I was nursing and he scared me the worst. We called that Dr. and he called us ALL in RX antibiotics, ( I did appreciate it) but lamented the initial misdiagnosis again!!

For several weeks, we had to have little trash cans all over the house with 6 children and 2 adults coughing and whooping!! We missed the first several weeks of school, and the end of the summer because of this.

 

So, this really makes me question the effectiveness of the vaccines in the first place. Mercury ( thimerisol) and straining through monkey parts were my first real turn offs. And the possible link to autism, SIDS, and other brain damage did not help.

[Mynyel]

About the exemption. I have one for my state. I was in a different state though and told them we don't vax. That is what has me mad. I told them I am not anti-vax, I just don't want them, and know that he will need a tetanus for this purpose.

 

I didn't know that there wasn't a tetanus only vax readily available. They didn't mention that this wasn't tetanus only. Perhaps I am making a mountain out of a mole hill but I was making "informed" decisions based and the info I had. The info I was given wasn't quite complete. I would have chosen a lesser vax had I known.

[KirstenH]

My unvaxed kid is accident-prone, so I've been through this. We ended up doing nothing. A tetanus vaccine injection is pretty much useless after an injury if the child has no prior exposure to the vaccine. It's a series shot that needs time and boosters to build up immunity.

 

If there is a large concern for tetanus (the injury occurred on a farm, for example, and is a DEEP puncture wound that did not bleed much), then what you need is the TIG shot (tetanus immune globulin), which is an anti-toxin made from blood products (and so carries some risks of its own). It's not widely available.

 

You CAN get a tetanus-only vaccine, but it's for adults and children over 7, and again, won't do anything for an injury already received.

[In2why]

The consent form for them to administer the shot includes what is in the shot. It also informs you of the risks. You were probably understandably upset, and didn't realize what you were signing. I can see why you would be upset, but I would bet a dollar to a donut that the Dtap was the only thing they had on hand and your choice would have been either the shot you got or nothing.

 

Pertussis is here in Virginia, and we have had two confirmed cases in our neighborhood, but it is strange the State Health Department has other Counties listed, but not ours. One of the cases is the daughter of my neighbor, who was immunized, and she has caught heck from people who did not immunize for not knowing that she had pertussis before it was diagnosed. We delayed immunization, but I can't imagine being upset with someone else for exposing my child before knowing the diagnosis. That is the risk people take when they don't immunize, or delay.

[NicAnn]

About the exemption. I have one for my state. I was in a different state though and told them we don't vax. That is what has me mad. I told them I am not anti-vax, I just don't want them, and know that he will need a tetanus for this purpose.

 

I didn't know that there wasn't a tetanus only vax readily available. They didn't mention that this wasn't tetanus only. Perhaps I am making a mountain out of a mole hill but I was making "informed" decisions based and the info I had. The info I was given wasn't quite complete. I would have chosen a lesser vax had I known.

 

Bolded-- I don't think you are at all. I've done extensive research, but I can't retain every piece of information. If we had to go to the emergency room today, I'd probably not have remembered there was no tetanus only readily available. That info should have been given to you.

 

Technically, you should be able to walk in there with no knowledge whatsoever and leave with enough to make an informed decision. Sadly, that is not how it's done.

[Butter]

An exemption is for school/daycare so I'm not sure what an exemption would have helped in this situation. He needed a tetanus shot, his mother asked for a tetanus shot. I'd bet they administered the only thing they had on hand for his age that included tetanus. It's unusual for even an ER to have tetanus only (actually, it's diptheria plus tetanus) for a child that age. It is up to the parent to make sure the proper vaccine is administered. And for that reason there is no recourse. As far as the ER is concerned, they did exactly what was asked of them. Most people who say "tetanus shot" don't care if it includes everything else.

 

Last spring my 3 year old stepped on a nail. It just so happened his doctor was supposed to be ordering a DT for him. He has literally just seen the doctor 4 days before it happened. The practice our doctor belongs to refused to order a DT because so few people want it/need it (because of a vaccine reaction, likely to pertussis, that our oldest had, our doctor will not administer anything with the P in it to our kids - he was the doctor when she had her reaction and he doesn't want a repeat). So he said to go to the urgent care. They only had DTaP. They called the ER. They only had DTaP. Our doctor said we had up to 48 hours and he'd find us a DT. He ended up getting it from our county health department. They always have DT on hand and are glad to provide them to doctors when needed. Luckily, we had our doctor behind us working on finding just the DT, but had we not made it VERY clear to the urgent care that Adrian was not to have the pertussis vaccine, they would have administered the DTaP. They even went to get it and I questioned them to be sure it was DT only and that's when they realized they didn't have DT only. It didn't even occur to the doctor there to look for DT only. To him, tetanus shot equaled DTaP. I think that's pretty common.

[Mynyel]

Gently, I think, since your position on vaccinations is not "the norm," that it would have been your place to inform them that you didn't want the rest of what normally accompanies the tetanus. Clearly, it didn't occur to you, as I'm sure your position didn't occur to them. Assumptions on both sides, but I do feel that the fault is yours, as an advocate for your particular needs/wishes for your kid. Sorry. Hope your child is fine. :grouphug:

 

True I understand what you are saying however I told them I didn't vax. You would think they are smart enough (they are doctors and nurses) to figure out.. gee would she want a tri vax if she doesn't vax? Let's ask to make sure.

 

I said tetanus shot repeatedly and was never corrected that it was, in fact, DTaP.

[BatmansWife]

I would be upset too. Before this school year started, I knew my oldest dd needed (was required to get) a tetanus shot before she started her classes at the tech school. Well, I myself ended up getting a tetanus shot a week before dd (my doctor mentioned it every year for years that I was due for a tetanus shot. So, I figure if I was letting dd get one then I should also get mine). I was glad I did....because I told my doctor I wanted just the tetanus. The nurse came in later with the DTaP....I only knew this because I specifically asked what it was (she wouldn't have told me). She said, "Well....we normally just always give this one". She went on to explain why they felt it was better for me.....yadda, yadda, yadda. She said that it was up to me though and whatever I wanted would be fine. I said, I don't want that one....I just want the tetanus. She said she'd have to go and ask my doctor if it was ok. :confused: Of course my doctor said that it was fine. So, the nurse came back in with just tetanus. The next week, I was not able to go with my dd when she needed her tetanus shot. I told her what happened and I told her to specifically ask for just the tetanus and not the DTaP. When she came home she told me she told them, but she didn't know which one she got. They didn't give her any card, so I called. It was the DTaP. I questioned them about this saying my dd asked for just the tetanus and they acked like :confused::confused:. Grrrr.....I was mad. But, it's a done deal. Fast forward to earlier this month. Brought son in for an epipen renewal and told them I needed him to get a tetanus shot (because of his working with his dad I felt it was important.....he's already nearly drilled his finger off twice). Again, I said just the tetanus....nothing else. When the nurse came in, she said, "OK.....this is just tetanus". Again....no card or anything so I'm assuming they told me the truth. So.....yeah, you really gotta be on top of it and ask specifically. Your poor little boy. That pin must have really hurt going that deep!

[Mynyel]

AND :) Had I known that this was the only vax they had I probably would have let them. I don't want my baby getting tetanus.

 

On that note I agree with the pp, that dtap probably won't prevent it much as it is a series. I did think of that too.

 

Again, wondering if it is a mountain out of a mole hill but I think I will get a copy of what I signed and see if I did sign something. Then take it from there. If I didn't sign anything then I will be lodging a complaint!

 

Call a spade a spade people, if you are administering DTaP then *say* DTaP. Don't repeat after me and say tetanus shot.:glare:

[raceNzanesmom]

They automatically give the DTaP around here, even when calling it a tetanus. I doubt it was intentional, it's just how they operate. I know if we ever need one I'll be very specific and ask to see the bottle.

 

FTR, tetanus lives in soil contaminated with manure. Unlikely a tetanus was needed.

 

And, I don't think you're making too big a deal out of it. They were wrong. You'll just never convince them of that. Sorry! :grouphug:

[joannqn]

DTaP is the standard tetanus vaccination. The only other option for your son's age is to get the dT, which is diptheria and tetanus. You need to be clear that you want dT (or Td for older kids/adults) to get it without the pertussis component. You cannot get tetanus by itself.

 

I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted.

[Butter]

On that note I agree with the pp, that dtap probably won't prevent it much as it is a series. I did think of that too.

 

That's not why we do vaccines in a series. We do series to make sure as many kids as possible get immunity. A certain percentage get it from the first shot, a certain percentage more from the second, etc. Most kids actually don't need more than one shot, but the only way to know is by doing a blood test and that's not economical compared to just universally administering the rest of a series. Dr. Sears talks about all that in The Vaccine Book. My kids are vaccinated on a totally different schedule laid out by our doctor and doing the minimum possible shots. For most, they have not needed a second shot to become immune.

[KirstenH]

That's not why we do vaccines in a series. We do series to make sure as many kids as possible get immunity. A certain percentage get it from the first shot, a certain percentage more from the second, etc. Most kids actually don't need more than one shot, but the only way to know is by doing a blood test and that's not economical compared to just universally administering the rest of a series. Dr. Sears talks about all that in The Vaccine Book. My kids are vaccinated on a totally different schedule laid out by our doctor and doing the minimum possible shots. For most, they have not needed a second shot to become immune.

 

Right, but a tetanus vaccine will do nothing if you have already contracted tetanus. In that case, you need the TIG.

[Mynyel]

Right, but a tetanus vaccine will do nothing if you have already contracted tetanus. In that case, you need the TIG.

 

 

Oooooh.... kinda like getting the flu shot after you have the flu? Or picking up the toy after you trip over it? :glare:

[joannqn]

Right, but a tetanus vaccine will do nothing if you have already contracted tetanus. In that case, you need the TIG.

 

:iagree:

 

That's what I was trying to come up with and couldn't remember the name of.

[Butter]

Right, but a tetanus vaccine will do nothing if you have already contracted tetanus. In that case, you need the TIG.

 

Correct. They almost never give TIG anymore, even for potential tetanus exposure, but instead give the tetanus vaccine (when I was in nursing school - not that long ago -late 90s - it was drilled into our heads that if someone had a possible tetanus exposure they need TIG ASAP). It's an interesting thing to think about, really. Makes you wonder how necessary *is* tetanus at all.

[Alice]

They should have given you a VIS sheet. It's a federal law that a VIS sheet be given on any vaccination that is going to be given (well, not every vaccine but on most).http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2027.pdf

 

If you did not receive a VIS sheet and did not sign for the shot I would certainly complain. How much you want to complain or pursue it is up to you and how strongly you feel about the situation.

 

Most doctors and certainly most ERs will not have dT on hand. We have DTaP for younger than 7 and Td/TdaP for older kids. I'm not surprised that to them they heard you say "tetanus" and thought it was obvious that DtaP equaled "tetanus". I'm not excusing it and it certainly was their error and not yours, but I'm not surprised. One time my husband and I had a long misunderstanding over the fact that when I say "Tylenol" I mean anything containing acetaminophen, he was totally confused because we had no Tylenol brand in the house. To me they are one and the same and I knew what I meant so surely he should have also. My mistake in communication as in your case it was the ER's mistake.

 

It does not make sense to give Tetanus to someone who has not had the vaccine at all and has a dirty wound. If there is truly a concern for tetanus, TIG should be given, most docs would also recommend giving a Tetanus vaccine at the same time to ensure longer term immunity. Tetanus is given for dirty wounds in people who have already received at least one tetanus vaccine previously because it is a booster and gives a boost to the immunity that is there.

[Momof3littles]

My unvaxed kid is accident-prone, so I've been through this. We ended up doing nothing. A tetanus vaccine injection is pretty much useless after an injury if the child has no prior exposure to the vaccine. It's a series shot that needs time and boosters to build up immunity.

 

If there is a large concern for tetanus (the injury occurred on a farm, for example, and is a DEEP puncture wound that did not bleed much), then what you need is the TIG shot (tetanus immune globulin), which is an anti-toxin made from blood products (and so carries some risks of its own). It's not widely available.

 

You CAN get a tetanus-only vaccine, but it's for adults and children over 7, and again, won't do anything for an injury already received.

:iagree: At least, that's what I recall reading about TIG, and my impression was that the actual tetanus vaccine isn't particularly effective at that point anyway.

[Whereneverever]

Right, but a tetanus vaccine will do nothing if you have already contracted tetanus. In that case, you need the TIG.

 

:iagree:

[sparkygirl]

Should I have received a copy of this document? I don't remember. I have the discharge papers but no documentation on the immunization other than the yellow card.

 

Yes, you should have been given a copy of the Tdap CDC vaccine paperwork at a minimum. It is required to be provided to patients for all vaccinations.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-dtap.pdf

 

You can request a copy of the medical records from the ED where he was seen to confirm if you did or did not sign consent for the vaccine administration.

[Haiku]

I feel lied to and taken advantage of.

 

Do I have any recourse?

 

I doubt it. DTaP is the standard vaccine. There was no malpractice, and unless you specifically told them NO D/aP, they would have no reason not to use the standard. You can get just a T, but you would have had specifically to request it. It's usually only given to adult who don't need the D/aP.

 

Tara

[mommaduck]

You have to be VERY, VERY specific if you want only T or only DT. The burden is on you to make certain that it is clarified. Asked for, asked right before they give the shot, check the paper work that YOU signed, etc. Sorry. I do understand as we've been in the non-vax/severely delayed vax/selective vax boat ourselves.

[kalanamak]

 

I feel very sure he had Diptheria and the mono test was negative.

 

If you are in the USA it is highly unlikely it was diptheria. That should have been in the Merck as well.

[Haiku]

 

 

How did this happen with all of those vaccines?

 

Are you really asking, or is this a rhetorical question? Do you know how vaccines work to create immunity?

 

We ALL developed PERTUSSIS!!!!!!

 

My son (vaccinated) got pertussis. Although unvaccinated people are at a 90% chance of developing it if they live with someone who has pertussis, the rest of us (vaccinated) didn't get it.

 

I believe vaccines are effective, but they are not 100% effective for 100% of people. Just because they aren't doesn't mean they aren't worth getting. Antibiotics aren't 100% effective 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean they aren't worth it.

 

Tara

[Word Nerd]

Didn't you have to sign the card or other paperwork before the shot was given? That's always been the case for me, and we've had vaccines given at different places. Your signature is granting permission for the vax listed on the card.

Edited March 22, 2012 by WordGirl

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Isn't it true that mother's milk gives the immunity that only she can give, and when her body actually fought off the illness, like only a human body can, is the immunity very powerful?

 

My dh is the youngest of 11 who never went to the Doctor or got a shot until all were adults. Hmmmm......Raised on the FARM

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

IMHO I would be glad he received protection from tetanus but also from pertussis which can be devastating and often takes months recover from coughing fits so hard that many children throw up or turn blue:( Pertussis is becoming a big problem due to lack of vaccination:(

[ocelotmom]

True I understand what you are saying however I told them I didn't vax. You would think they are smart enough (they are doctors and nurses) to figure out.. gee would she want a tri vax if she doesn't vax? Let's ask to make sure.

 

I said tetanus shot repeatedly and was never corrected that it was, in fact, DTaP.

 

In defense of the doctors and nurses being tacitly accused of stupidity....

 

ER docs and nurses don't tend to spend a lot of time trying to delve too far into their patients' minds when not absolutely necessary. This isn't a lack of intelligence, or even a lack of compassion - more a combination of mental self defense and lack of time.

 

The thing is, 99% of the people coming in saying they need a tetanus shot don't care what they get with it, or even consider anything else an added bonus. More protection with less needlesticks. And that's how it's packaged. Expecting someone to infer what you want without explicitly telling them is expecting them to think pretty far outside the box about something that is, for them, extremely routine and low on their radar.

 

I'm a nurse. I'm probably somewhat smarter than the average nurse. I'm also 100% sympathetic with non/selective vaxers and not going to try to sneak one by you for the sake of humanity or some such nonsense. It still wouldn't necessarily cross my mind that the person asking for a tetanus vaccine would want just the tetanus portion. Especially if, for example, I'm worried about my other patient who is not at all stable and really needs to be in the ICU, but there isn't a bed available yet. Or if I'm near the end of a 12 hour overnight shift. Or any other reason that I might provide standard care but not manage to go above and beyond that.

 

On the other hand, there's absolutely no excuse for not giving you the required vaccine information paper and getting proper consent.

[StephanieZ]

The ER is not designed to carry a wide range of vaccines. I am sure they just carry one choice for each need/use, so one pediatric, one adult, etc. Since DTaP covers more bases, they likely have no desire or need to carry Tetanus only. They will make their choices on which to stock based on covering the most bases in the fewest different products, and also in protecting public health. Thus, a combo shot would be the best choice for them.

 

If you are getting a vaccine in the ER, you are at the mercy of the limited choices they have.

 

A private holistic/vaccine minimizing DR might have more options, so if you want limited vaccines, you will want to find a way to plan ahead.

[Lisbeth]

IMHO I would be glad he received protection from tetanus but also from pertussis which can be devastating and often takes months recover from coughing fits so hard that many children throw up or turn blue:( Pertussis is becoming a big problem due to lack of vaccination:(

 

Agreed.

[Momof3littles]

We have had several outbreaks of pertussis in our area. In several of the schools, all of the known individuals with illness were fully vaccinated. In one case there was a non vaccinated teacher (like many adults who aren't fully vaxed for pertussis).

 

There was a recent study out saying immunity may wane in as little as three years.

 

I just wanted to point out that it may not be as simple as blaming those who do not vax. It is clearly a multifactoral issue.

 

No one is getting boosted every 3 years, including vaccinating families. Fully vaccinated individuals can serve as asymptomatic vessels for spreading pertussis too, since the vaccination is against the toxin produced by pertussis.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Momof3littles

[flyingiguana]

We have had several outbreaks of pertussis in our area. In several of the schools, all of the known individuals with illness were fully vaccinated. In one case there was a non vaccinated teacher (like many adults who aren't fully vaxed for pertussis).

 

There was a recent study out saying immunity may wane in as little as three years.

 

I just wanted to point out that it may not be as simple as blaming those who do not vax.

 

No one is getting boosted every 3 years, including vaccinating families.

 

But they're back to vaccinating every 10 years now, with the tetanus booster. This might be enough for the herd immunity to bring the number of cases down, even if the vaccine waned in effectiveness after 3 years. But this is a very short period of effectiveness -- I haven't see it reported elsewhere. Do you have a reference for that?

 

This page gives more info on what's known about how long immunity lasts:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2532581/

The studies they're citing seem to suggest 5-10 years of immunity following the vaccine -- 7-20 years after natural infection.

 

One of the things they point out is that kids who had the full vaccination (or even the infection itself) might just be losing their immunity as they become young adults, or worse, as they become parents. Just when they have an unvaccinated baby in the house, they might be able to bring pertussis home. And most of the deaths from pertussis seem to be in the unvaccinated babies under the age of 6 months.

 

And for those of us beyond the age of 6 months, I can personally attest that this is not a disease you want to get. It can make you sick for up to half a year.

 

 

Edited to add:

And I don't really understand the second sentence of this:

"No one is getting boosted every 3 years, including vaccinating families. Fully vaccinated individuals can serve as asymptomatic vessels for spreading pertussis too, since the vaccination is against the toxin produced by pertussis."

 

Also, even if the immunity only lasted 3 years following the vaccination, there's still going to be a herd immunity effect. On a population level, it would still be worth doing.

Edited March 22, 2012 by flyingiguana

[Haiku]

Isn't it true that mother's milk gives the immunity that only she can give, and when her body actually fought off the illness, like only a human body can, is the immunity very powerful?

 

 

No. Immunity is immunity, and you either are immune or you aren't (like you either are pregnant, or you're not. You can't be kinda pregnant or kinda immune). And it really doesn't matter how you acquire immunity. Your body either mounts an effective immune response, or it doesn't. The immune protection provided through nursing is fleeting, anyway. It generally only lasts for a few months past the end of nursing, because it is not innate immunity. It is only the transfer of antibodies, not the transfer of the ability of the child's body to make antibodies. In order for the body to produce its own antibodies, it must be exposed to the pathogen, not just to the mother's antibodies.

 

When vaccinated, some people develop lifelong immunity, and some don't. It's the same with naturally acquiring diseases. Some people develop a lifelong immunity to the disease, and some don't. Chicken pox is the classic example. It's an old wives' tale that you can only get chicken pox once. Most people only get it once, but some people get it more than once. Immunity can wane from both natural adaptive immunity (getting the disease) and artificial adaptive immunity (getting a vaccine). But the immune response mechanism is the same in both cases.

 

Tara

[mommymilkies]

Here they have a tetanus only shot for people with injuries that you get with no problem (they always offer it when we go!). I would have been mad.

[flyingiguana]

 

My dh is the youngest of 11 who never went to the Doctor or got a shot until all were adults. Hmmmm......Raised on the FARM

 

And of an age when herd immunity was at its peak, due to the rest of the population getting vaccinated? It might not be the farm, the clean living, or anything else -- just that the population he was exposed to were less likely to carry the disease because vaccination was more prevalent. If it wasn't there, he couldn't get it.

 

My dad was raised on a farm too, and none of them were vaccinated because there were no vaccines back then. He got whooping cough and was out of school for a semester. Friends of his DIED from polio. He and my mom were VERY insistent that my kids get vaccinated. I think our society is forgetting what things were like before vaccines. They think they aren't getting these awful diseases because they're living "right" -- breastfeeding and not eating junk food etc. That's how my parents were raised, and they still got these awful diseases.

 

People today often don't realize how much herd immunity is protecting them, even if they don't get vaccinated.

 

And yes, those unvaccinated folks are giving these diseases more of a foothold. Vaccines are not 100 percent effective. That's why herd immunity is so important for ALL of us.

[Scuff]

Mother's milk may not give full immunity, but it does help tremendously. We all got pert last winter, when dd was only a few weeks old. It wasn't anything I'd dvrr want to repeat, and she was a sick baby, but she did well and stayed out if the hospital. She was not nearly as sick as the older kids. I really think nursing played a big part in her still being here today.

[Momof3littles]

But they're back to vaccinating every 10 years now, with the tetanus booster. This might be enough for the herd immunity to bring the number of cases down, even if the vaccine waned in effectiveness after 3 years. But this is a very short period of effectiveness -- I haven't see it reported elsewhere. Do you have a reference for that?

 

This page gives more info on what's known about how long immunity lasts:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2532581/

The studies they're citing seem to suggest 5-10 years of immunity following the vaccine -- 7-20 years after natural infection.

 

One of the things they point out is that kids who had the full vaccination (or even the infection itself) might just be losing their immunity as they become young adults, or worse, as they become parents. Just when they have an unvaccinated baby in the house, they might be able to bring pertussis home. And most of the deaths from pertussis seem to be in the unvaccinated babies under the age of 6 months.

 

And for those of us beyond the age of 6 months, I can personally attest that this is not a disease you want to get. It can make you sick for up to half a year.

 

 

Edited to add:

And I don't really understand the second sentence of this:

"No one is getting boosted every 3 years, including vaccinating families. Fully vaccinated individuals can serve as asymptomatic vessels for spreading pertussis too, since the vaccination is against the toxin produced by pertussis."

 

Also, even if the immunity only lasted 3 years following the vaccination, there's still going to be a herd immunity effect. On a population level, it would still be worth doing.

People who are vaccinated and asymptomatic can still have pertussis in their passages and spread it. Obviously if they don't have a full blown case they are less likely to be hacking and spreading it everywhere, but it can still be spread person to person in asymptomatic individuals since the vaccination is against the toxin, not the pertussis bacteria. Individuals can still have pertussis in their passages or have subclinical infection even if vaccinated, as far as I am aware. That doesn't mean the vaccination doesn't reduce the transmission, but my point is that it is possible for fully vaccinated individuals to be carriers as well.

 

In terms of the report that immunity may wane in as little as three years:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/sep/19/study-whooping-cough-vaccine-fades-3-years/

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/750210

 

Again, that isn't to say that there is no value or that I don't believe the vaccination has no value. But I think blaming outbreaks solely on non vaccinating families is unfair.

[God IS]

Here they have a tetanus only shot for people with injuries that you get with no problem (they always offer it when we go!). I would have been mad.

 

This isn't true everywhere, though. In fact, when my son stepped on a nail--the ER didn't even have a tetanus booster for his sixe(4 at that time) because they assume that all kids that small are vaxed.

[tm_burriss]

It doesn't matter if others think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It is your child and your decision. I would, at the very least, file a complaint with the hospital on as many levels as possible including local and regional managers.