Do you think it's "fair" to force conversion on children?

[AimeeM]

A conversion of faith, that is.

Say you married a man as a Baptist or Catholic. You had children together, raised them for years in that same faith. Suddenly, you (or you AND the hubby) decide to convert to a completely different faith.

 

Is it fair to force children to convert also?

 

I hear it often from converts on all ends; they converted (usually hubby too, in the context I'm referring to); their children now are expected to attend the church they (the parent) attends. No "if", "ands", or "buts".

 

I guess I don't find it fair in the least. My daughter is firmly Catholic. While she questions her faith at times (she is certainly in the logic stage, lol), she loves The Church and the we way we live our faith. At the age of 10, it seems horribly unfair to require her to change the way she believes, just to suit me, but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I'd love to hear from those who have done this. No judgments, though I might ask questions :D

 

I'm sincerely curious. I just don't understand it.

 

(By the way - I'm not converting :D. Just a question)

[Joanne]

You use the word "converting." I reserve that word for different FAITHS such as Christian to Jewish, or Jewish to Muslim.

 

Are you speaking specifically of making changes between Christian denominations?

[AimeeM]

You use the word "converting." I reserve that word for different FAITHS such as Christian to Jewish, or Jewish to Muslim.

 

Are you speaking specifically of making changes between Christian denominations?

Perhaps only denominations with major differences; but in general I mean a major change like Christian to Islam.

 

I do, however, know that the switch from a faith like Baptist to Orthodox can be incredibly difficult and there are major differences.

[AimeeM]

You use the word "converting." I reserve that word for different FAITHS such as Christian to Jewish, or Jewish to Muslim.

 

Are you speaking specifically of making changes between Christian denominations?

I will also point out that while you may view conversion as something between different religions, most refer to it when stating they are "converting to Catholicism", or something of the like, from a protestant denomination.

[Rosie_0801]

If you believe there is only one right and true path and anyone veering from that will burn for all eternity, not forcing conversion would be an awful thing to do.

 

Rosie

[Ester Maria]

This is one of those cases where it is not a question of good vs. bad, but rather choosing between several "bad" options / optimizing the situation. Obviously, if a family embraces a new faith as a family, that typically brings about some lifestyle changes too and sometimes the "evil" done by making a change in a child's life is lesser than an "evil" of having incompatible lifestyles and philosophies within the same household. For younger children, it would seem natural to me that parents who wish to raise them in a faith would "move" their kids along their own personal journey as they move forward - with kids ultimately, as always, making their own choices.

 

With teens it does get problematic and it typically takes a lot of diplomacy as to how to handle it.

 

I know people who have become significantly more religious than they were before and if we were to do the same, we would probably require all the lifestlye changes from our children too, barring children who are of the age of majority or near it, because it would simply be incompatible with our life, parenting and worldview philosophies to have in our household people who sort of "undermine" it in sense of not adhering to the same behavioral norms; we may compromise some, though, but specifically agree upon it. Is it "fair"? No, not really. But then again, the sole act of having a child is not really "fair" either because you are going to decide on very many things in that little person's life along the way. Changing schools is also not "fair" to the child, nor is moving to another country, nor... the word "fair" sort of loses the meaning here, if you get what I mean. It is just what it is - children are raised in certain homes with certain behaviors and standards, in certain life / living situations, and that is what it is; they go with their parents when they are small and start slowly making their own choices later. I cannot imagine being sincerely convinced of something and NOT including my small children (yes, 10 still qualifies as small; it is mid-upper high school where I start having serious dilemmas) - it would be hypocritical and intellectually dishonest. I also cannot imagine encouraging a child to continue with what I consider a falsehood. It would be akin to spiritual neglect, actually.

 

Also, for the sake of peace in the family, I find that it is MUCH better to have members of the household roughly on the same level observance-wise and basic standards-wise. Obviously, the children may rebel, but they may rebel to the faith they grew up with from birth too, and it is normal; I would treat it the same way I would treat that and require the same amount of adherence to the religious norms I would require anyway. Except with older children, with a very explicit agreement on not "sabotaging" our parenting efforts (because faith would tie into the general parenting too) with the younger children.

 

Obviously, I am assuming cases of fundamental changes, rather than changes of "aesthetical" nature. I honestly cannot imagine how would they NOT actively include their children into that change.

 

Just my $.02.

[simka2]

None of my kids 10, 9, 9, 6 were "forced." We did a lot of talking and attended the Protestant and EO church simultaneously. Before we became catechumen's our Priest asked us what the kids thoughts were on becoming Orthodox, he also spoke with the kids directly. By that time they were ready to be baptized the next day. ;)We were catechumen's for almost a year, so they had quite the wait! :D

 

Now, had we been faced with a child who was really struggling with converting I would have done what I could for them...even if that meant attending a different church once or twice a month (me with them, I probably would not force those who wanted to convert to remain in the previous.)

 

Also, if any of my kids had not wanted to be baptized neither I (would have pushed)nor my Priest would have baptized them.

 

Hope that helps!

[*********]

If you believe there is only one right and true path and anyone veering from that will burn for all eternity, not forcing conversion would be an awful thing to do.

 

Rosie

 

Rosie, I would argue that one cannot force a conversion on anyone.

 

Dh and I are Christians. Yes, we teach our boys our beliefs. However, we do not think that means the boys believe, simply because we want them to.

 

We pray they will someday draw near to God as he calls them; that they will repent, believe, and perservere. But we can only do our part in that, which is bringing them up in our faith. Their true salvation is between them and the Lord alone.

 

All that to say, that, HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, if dh and I decided that, for example, we have been wrong, that Christianity is not THE TRUTH, but, say, Judaism was; well then, we'd go about teaching our children our new beliefs. And again, there'd be no way for us to FORCE them to believe/convert.

[Ellie]

Well, so, if you start going to a different church--say, from Southern Baptist to Catholic--are you supposed to leave your minor children at home? Of course you take them with you. You can ask them if they'd like to be Catholic or whatever if they're older, but you have to take the lead. It's your responsibility as a parent.

[AimeeM]

Well, so, if you start going to a different church--say, from Southern Baptist to Catholic--are you supposed to leave your minor children at home? Of course you take them with you. You can ask them if they'd like to be Catholic or whatever if they're older, but you have to take the lead. It's your responsibility as a parent.

Of course you don't leave them at home! Lol - bring them, but do you also take them to the church they were raised in and are comfortable in? If not, isn't that forcing... if only by not allowing them to continue with what they've always known?

 

Also, thank you ladies. Your answers are very helpful. It's just a thought this pregnant ol' hag was pondering while watching late night television :D

[farouk]

If you believe there is only one right and true path and anyone veering from that will burn for all eternity, not forcing conversion would be an awful thing to do.

 

Rosie

 

Rosie:

 

True faith needs to be a matter of the conscience. Teaching matters of faith is one thing; the adult or adolescent's developing conscience is another aspect.

[dangermom]

Of course you don't leave them at home! Lol - bring them, but do you also take them to the church they were raised in and are comfortable in?

 

Yes, I think you do take them to the church they are comfortable in. It's perfectly OK to attend two services every Sunday, or alternate Sundays, or whatever it takes for everyone to feel like they're being respected. I would say "I'd like you to attend my new church because we're a family and we do things together, and I'll do the same with yours--we'll attend as a family and support each other." Mutual support and doing things as a family is, I think, the only way to go.

 

 

I have recently watched a former friend try to force her children to convert to her new church. It's been one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. She thinks that no matter how hard it is on them, it will be worth it because they'll end up in the 'correct' church. I think they're quite likely to end up thinking Christianity and religion are terrible, and I don't think that God smiles when families are torn apart over doctrinal differences. You don't mess with a child's relationship with God like that. As far as I can see, she has severely damaged her children and her relationship with them, for no reason whatsoever. (Her younger children are convinced, though she's told them a lot of lies. Of the older ones, one went where the money was. One is faking for the sake of peace. One clung to his beliefs and got thrown out.)

 

I contrast that with my good friend, whose husband went the 'support each other and go as a family' route. They are happy with each other and have strong relationships with God, even through some very hard times.

 

So yeah, I feel very strongly about this. Don't mess with your child's relationship with God by forcing them to convert. God doesn't force people to convert. You have no right to do that.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dangermom

[farouk]

Similar here. My son was 12 when we decided to talk to the priest about becoming Orthodox. The priest specifically asked my son what he wanted to do, and told him specifically that he was to be treated as an adult in the decision, that he would probably have to come to church with us as he was a minor, but that he need not be baptized against his will. He was all in, except he wanted to go to Easter at our former church, because that was a special day for us. So we did that for a year or two--Pascha from 11:00pm to 4am, then sleep, then 11:30am Easter service back at our old church. Whew.

 

Myself, I griped about going to church when I was about 12, and my dad said, "Too bad. Get in the car." By 14, I owned my faith. But I started attending a different church when I was 15. The pastor renounced his faith, but not his position as pastor, and my parents stayed to fight it out. I wanted out and they let me go to a different denomination with my piano teacher. Five years later, we were all together again in a third denomination! I probably would have followed this pattern with my son had it been necessary. He might end up going to a different Orthodox parish when he can drive, for while he loves our parish and its people, it is small and there are very few youth, and he is lonely. There is a parish nearby with a more active youth program, and I think that if he wants to go there, that is OK.

 

Patty Joanna:

 

"The pastor renounced his faith, but not his position as pastor"

 

What dishonesty! Talk about the blind leaders of the blind (as it says in the Bible), who claim to lead people in faith while renouncing it!

 

Why should people even listen to people like this? If the leaders are this way, I can easily read my Bible at home instead.

[Lovedtodeath]

My daughter is not forced at all. In fact, no one in my household regularly attends a church right now, but she was invited by a neighbor to attend church with her and she chose to go, and bugged me to take her back.

 

Of course I cannot force her to choose Christ either, but she has seen and heard things and has asked questions and said some beautiful things. She already loves Him.

[farouk]

My daughter is not forced at all. In fact, no one in my household regularly attends a church right now, but she was invited by a neighbor to attend church with her and she chose to go, and bugged me to take her back.

 

Of course I cannot force her to choose Christ either, but she has seen and heard things and has asked questions and said some beautiful things. She already loves Him.

 

Lovedtodeath:

 

Sounds like you have had a good relationship with your daughter in this way.

[Ellie]

Of course you don't leave them at home! Lol - bring them, but do you also take them to the church they were raised in and are comfortable in? If not, isn't that forcing... if only by not allowing them to continue with what they've always known?

 

Also, thank you ladies. Your answers are very helpful. It's just a thought this pregnant ol' hag was pondering while watching late night television :D

You can think of it that way if you want, but I would not make multiple trips on a Sunday to take every family member to a different church. My minor children will come with me wherever I go. When they are old enough to drive, they can choose where they will attend. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

Right now our plan is that I have a church I was drawn to that we attend on Sunday and I take DD to the church she likes on Wednesday. If we regularly attend anywhere, we also plan to visit other churches once a month or so.

[farouk]

Right now our plan is that I have a church I was drawn to that we attend on Sunday and I take DD to the church she likes on Wednesday.

 

Lovedtodeath:

 

Well, this is great. It good to go together, I think. Also, supplementing it with reading well known Scripture passages at home helps, too.

[KungFuPanda]

I don't think it's less fair than teaching your children that The One True Way just happens to be the faith that is most practiced in their town and also just happens to be the faith they were fortune enough to be born into. I don't think it's fair to teach kids that salvation is dependent upon geography. At least if they've gone through a conversion they will understand the value of truly examining your own beliefs.

 

I also don't think that converting from Christianity to Christianity is a big, shocking deal. Yes, there will be significant changes (or else, why convert) but you are not really giving up your faith.

Edited January 6, 2012 by KungFuPanda

[AimeeM]

You can think of it that way if you want, but I would not make multiple trips on a Sunday to take every family member to a different church. My minor children will come with me wherever I go. When they are old enough to drive, they can choose where they will attend. :)

Fair enough.

If the child is able to hitch a ride with friends?

[Lovedtodeath]

Aimee, how do you think it would affect your daughter if you made her go to a different church? I am so non-denominational that I just don't understand. PM me if you want.

Lovedtodeath:

 

Well, this is great. It good to go together, I think. Also, supplementing it with reading well known Scripture passages at home helps, too.

Thanks! Yes of course, we started out at home, not knowing if we would ever be open to anything else. I just bought her a new Children's Bible, (The ESV Grow) as the KJV she was given was too difficult, and I bought her some bible story books that she just loves.

[AimeeM]

I don't think it's less fair than teaching your children that The One True Way just happens to be the faith that is most practiced in their town and also just happens to be the faith they were fortune enough to be born into. I don't think it's fair to teach kids that salvation is dependent upon geography. At least if they've gone through a conversion they will understand the value of truly examining your own beliefs.

 

I also don't think that converting from Christianity to Christianity is a big, shocking deal. Yes, there will be significant changes (or else, why convert) but you are not really giving up your faith.[/quote]

For some denominations perhaps not a huge deal; but there are several I think would bring a big shock to a child not on board. BJU Baptist to Catholic or to Mormon as an example (just because those are local churches to me, so that's what I'm calling up, lol).

[milovany]

When we converted from evangelicalism to Eastern Orthodoxy, our seven kids ranged in age from a year old up to 16. We had spent almost a year in the process of deciding. (We do use the word converted because it was an almost 180 degree turn -- for us -- within Christianity).

 

When we first started inquiring into Orthodoxy, we were willing to give our oldest (a son, 15 at the time) freedom to choose whether or not he would attend with us. We had been attending the church we were in at the time for about three years and he'd formed some relationships there with adult men who he cared for and who mentored him to a degree. Our house was just 6 blocks or so from that church, so he could have walked if that was what it came to.

 

We didn't feel the same about the next two to four kids (13, 11, 9 and 7 at the time); had they not been interested, we'd have had to talk some things out and see where we stood. In all likelihood, we would have gone forward with Orthodoxy, taking them with us, and trusting that we'd stay respectful and open to talking, answering questions, etc. but we wouldn't have taken them to a different church at that point.

 

As for the younger two (1 and 3), they really didn't have a say in the matter ;). They just followed along of course.

 

When it came to the actual conversion (baptism), most would have had a say in the matter, especially the older 4-5 kids. The two youngers were baptized like small children/infants are -- they just were. (I sometimes say I have five "convert" children and two "cradles.") The last two won't remember anything different.

 

In the end, in our case, any thought about doing different things for different kids was all for naught. They were all thrilled with the conversion and happily took part. We were baptized two years ago this Monday.

 

Good questions!

Edited January 6, 2012 by milovaný

[farouk]

Thanks! Yes of course, we started out at home, not knowing if we would ever be open to anything else. I just bought her a new Children's Bible, (The ESV Grow) as the KJV she was given was too difficult, and I bought her some bible story books that she just loves.

 

Lovedtodeath (great screen name, btw):

 

ESV is a pretty trustworthy version, a little more modern in language than King James. Actually, the King James is memorable and trustworthy, too, as a translation, although for those who are unfamiliar with it, it can seen a bit obscure in places. You know, for serious study, a more formal version can be good, although to get the preliminary gist of a narrative or account of happenings, a more modern, even paraphrased, edition can have its uses, I think.

[Lovedtodeath]

Lovedtodeath (great screen name, btw):

 

ESV is a pretty trustworthy version, a little more modern in language than King James. Actually, the King James is memorable and trustworthy, too, as a translation, although for those who are unfamiliar with it, it can seen a bit obscure in places. You know, for serious study, a more formal version can be good, although to get the preliminary gist of a narrative or account of happenings, a more modern, even paraphrased, edition can have its uses, I think.

The Living Bible (paraphrased) is what brought me to Christ. :D I would love a kid's version of that. I had to choose between the NIRV and the ESV at the store.

 

I use the NKJV, the New American Bible, the Amplified, and the NASB for Study.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[farouk]

The Living Bible (paraphrased) is what brought me to Christ. :D

 

Lovedtodeath:

 

I remember when Dr Ken Taylor died.

 

Actually other versions are preferred by me, but a paraphrase can be a useful introduction, even though its phrasing isn't exact.

[AimeeM]

I think it would affect her negatively, given that (in our area at least, I cannot speak for other areas) even the non denominational churches are heavily protestant. There are significant differences between the way we worship and the way most of the more southern protestant churches worship. The entire culture of worship is very different.

 

She is a child who would over think it. She would assume that we had lied to her or misrepresented the truth if we were to just say "hey, we were wrong before, even though we told you we were right, but now we're right". Frankly, I think it would cause trust issues and I'm not sure how it doesn't in the families I've seen (and I've seen it negatively affect the children in the situation I mentioned). However, in those situations, the child was not allowed to continue their own faith, in the way they had always known.

Aimee, how do you think it would affect your daughter if you made her go to a different church? I am so non-denominational that I just don't understand. PM me if you want.

Thanks! Yes of course, we started out at home, not knowing if we would ever be open to anything else. I just bought her a new Children's Bible, (The ESV Grow) as the KJV she was given was too difficult, and I bought her some bible story books that she just loves.

[MyLittleWonders]

This is what is happening in our family right now. I am converting to Catholicism; dh is not (he is of no religion/denomination). We used to be members of an evangelical/non-denominational church for quite a few years before we left. Our oldest is the only one who really remembers and misses it (mostly because Sunday school was "fun" and one of his friends went there too).

 

As a family, we attend Mass. If for some reason dh stays home, the boys are welcome to stay with him (if he stays home, he tends to keep the baby home anyway). Usually ds#1 will come with me for one-on-one time. But, if dh wants to come to Mass, or we are going because it is Advent or Christmastime, we all go. They do not stay home alone.

 

I am beginning to teach them at home about the Catholic faith; we read the Bible, saint stories, and will start some type of catechism study at home. My hope would be that they choose to receive the sacraments. But, at least with the boys, we feel they are old enough to make that choice on their own. (The baby will more than likely baptized and raised as if we were/I was always Catholic.) We still need to speak with the priest and hopefully have the priest speak also with the boys. (Heck, dh needs to speak with him too as the idea of baptism before the age of choosing it for oneself is foreign to him and I am no where able to explain it adequately.)

 

So, yes, once we left our old church, our boys stopped attending too. Now that I am converting to Catholicism, the boys are expected to attend Mass when we go as a family, and they will also be educated in the faith at home. They will be given the opportunity to enter the Church if they wish, but will not be forced.

[AimeeM]

Lol - babies and Mass don't mix very well do they?

I will say this much, Autumn was envious that her friend got to go to Sunday school and she didn't, so I let Autumn attend Sunday School with her friend at her friend's church. Her friend is very traditionally Episcopal, so I've yet to see anything that contradicts our beliefs as Catholics (as is taught in Sunday School classes anyway). Her friend is also allowed to attend Mass with us.

With our son's medical considerations it is difficult to always make it to Mass, so we chose a Catholic curriculum for several core subjects.

Two birds, one stone ;)

This is what is happening in our family right now. I am converting to Catholicism; dh is not (he is of no religion/denomination). We used to be members of an evangelical/non-denominational church for quite a few years before we left. Our oldest is the only one who really remembers and misses it (mostly because Sunday school was "fun" and one of his friends went there too).

 

As a family, we attend Mass. If for some reason dh stays home, the boys are welcome to stay with him (if he stays home, he tends to keep the baby home anyway). Usually ds#1 will come with me for one-on-one time. But, if dh wants to come to Mass, or we are going because it is Advent or Christmastime, we all go. They do not stay home alone.

 

I am beginning to teach them at home about the Catholic faith; we read the Bible, saint stories, and will start some type of catechism study at home. My hope would be that they choose to receive the sacraments. But, at least with the boys, we feel they are old enough to make that choice on their own. (The baby will more than likely baptized and raised as if we were/I was always Catholic.) We still need to speak with the priest and hopefully have the priest speak also with the boys. (Heck, dh needs to speak with him too as the idea of baptism before the age of choosing it for oneself is foreign to him and I am no where able to explain it adequately.)

 

So, yes, once we left our old church, our boys stopped attending too. Now that I am converting to Catholicism, the boys are expected to attend Mass when we go as a family, and they will also be educated in the faith at home. They will be given the opportunity to enter the Church if they wish, but will not be forced.

[MyLittleWonders]

Lol - babies and Mass don't mix very well do they?

I will say this much, Autumn was envious that her friend got to go to Sunday school and she didn't, so I let Autumn attend Sunday School with her friend at her friend's church. Her friend is very traditionally Episcopal, so I've yet to see anything that contradicts our beliefs as Catholics (as is taught in Sunday School classes anyway). Her friend is also allowed to attend Mass with us.

With our son's medical considerations it is difficult to always make it to Mass, so we chose a Catholic curriculum for several core subjects.

Two birds, one stone ;)

Nope they don't mix! :lol: And, to top it off, she only wants me during Mass. ;) But, we make it work somehow.

[gardenmom5]

A conversion of faith, that is.

Say you married a man as a Baptist or Catholic. You had children together, raised them for years in that same faith. Suddenly, you (or you AND the hubby) decide to convert to a completely different faith.

 

Is it fair to force children to convert also?

 

I hear it often from converts on all ends; they converted (usually hubby too, in the context I'm referring to); their children now are expected to attend the church they (the parent) attends. No "if", "ands", or "buts".

 

I guess I don't find it fair in the least. My daughter is firmly Catholic. While she questions her faith at times (she is certainly in the logic stage, lol), she loves The Church and the we way we live our faith. At the age of 10, it seems horribly unfair to require her to change the way she believes, just to suit me, but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I'd love to hear from those who have done this. No judgments, though I might ask questions :D

 

I'm sincerely curious. I just don't understand it.

 

(By the way - I'm not converting :D. Just a question)

 

my parents changed religion when I was growing up - from a reasonably orthodox protestant to an *extremely* liberal congregation (one teens sunday activity was illegal drug use. yes, the adults knew. they didn't care.) of a liberal one (other congregations of this religion we visited, known for being rather liberal in their beliefs, were downright conservative in comparision). words cannot adequately express how much I loathed and despised the place. I eventually started looking at other religions on my own, until I found one I was happy with.

 

I think it would be useful for you and your daughter to discuss your beliefs, and hers, and why they are your beliefs and how/why they make you a better person.

[9763653]

I am currently considering this. My kids are still young, and while I feel that the change is right, the impact it would have on them is certainly a reason to be hesitant. At their age, it is less about faith and more about leaving behind the community, which would not be supportive at all.

 

Hoping to hear more families' experiences on this thread.

[JFSinIL]

Once kids are old enough to question it, they may think "Well, if all this time you told me xxx was the true religion but now you say ggg is, how am I to believe either is true? How do YOU know which is true? And who says YOU are right?"

 

When I was about 8, in religious ed. classes, the nuns (oh, what a give-a-way) told us that our religion was the only real one, and the only way to get to heaven, etc.

Yet I noticed how folks in the "wrong" religions also felt THE SAME WAY. That THEIRS was the "true" religion.

 

So - who was to say one ONE religion was the only ONE. I figured way back then that God was speaking to people in different ways, through different messengers.

 

So I imagine telling a devout child that "Hey, never mind - made a mistake, now THIS will be our family's religion" might cause a problem.

 

I might add - my nieces were raised by a devout Catholic mom from a devout Catholic family (one aunt is a Dominican nun - full habit, grandparents have been to Vatican several times and had friends who worked there...Grandpa was mistaken for Pope John Paul once). My niece's dad, however, was Jewish. So have they grown up thinking their dad has been in the "wrong" faith?

 

PPS - Sussie, my niece's Jewish Grandma, saw BOTH her boys marry Catholic girls. None of her grandkids are Jewish. In fact, one son ended up a Messianic Jew- Jews who believe in Jesus. I just always thought that was kinda rotten for her.

Edited January 6, 2012 by JFSinIL

[Pamela H in Texas]

If you believe there is only one right and true path and anyone veering from that will burn for all eternity, not forcing conversion would be an awful thing to do.

 

Rosie always states things so concisely.

 

Really, if you believe all religions are a path to God and peace, each path being individual, then you wouldn't force conversion other than maybe to some degree for convenience sake (it just *is* easier for everyone to be going the same direction Sunday morning). But if you believe there is a much narrower path that is right, that would be different. For example, some protestant churches don't believe Catholicism is even Christian at all so where they may be tolerant of other protestant churches (and probably not others), they couldn't leave their kids in the Catholic church if they started believing as this protestant denomination does. They would believe it means forever in a torturous hell for their child. Who *would* leave them?

 

Our religion is similar in that we believe there is one narrow path, not a broad path that includes everyone who claims Christianity or many paths so whatever religion would be okay. However, we also don't believe you can force conversion on ANYONE. The individual has to be on board.

 

I really "converted" twice (to Jehovah's Witness). The first time, my kids were extremely young so they just came with me. The second time, they were much older. That time, I wanted them to follow, of course; but I didn't expect instant...ummmm...belief, compliance, lifestyle changes. And I wouldn't have FORCED them because I didn't want to turn them away. So I didn't make ANY rules except in regards to what *I* was willing to do or not do. My daughter still went to the private Christian school for Spanish. My son still played a certain computer game. They could choose to go to Christian meetings or not. They could choose to do a formal Bible study or not.

 

I *did* believe there was a narrow path; but I felt that I needed to reach them with scripture and reasoning and love, not force.

[Melinda in VT]

First, I agree with others that you can't force a conversion, only the outward behavior. We work to create a home environment in which we can all be open about our religious beliefs or lack thereof, even if the kids don't believe the way we want them to. ;-)

 

However, church attendance is something that we decide as parents. Our kids were young when we had a significant denominational change, so they came with us.

 

I don't know how much exposure I would have facilitated with our former denomination, had they been older. For one thing, in my experience, the denominational teachings tend to encourage a lot of judgementalism towards those not of the faith, and especially towards those who leave the faith (which would have been us). So I think it would have undermined our parental authority in our home and with our kids to allow them to continue.

 

Also, we felt strongly that there were some (other) elements of the church that had the potential to be very damaging, and we did not want to continue to expose our kids.

 

I think kids in general understand that people learn and change and grow, if the parents take the time to explain things to them at an age-appropriate level.

[KingM]

If you believe there is only one right and true path and anyone veering from that will burn for all eternity, not forcing conversion would be an awful thing to do.

Rosie

 

True, but if you don't believe there is only one right and true path and anyone veering from that will burn for all eternity, being forced to convert is also awful.

[PrincessMommy]

A conversion of faith, that is.

Say you married a man as a Baptist or Catholic. You had children together, raised them for years in that same faith. Suddenly, you (or you AND the hubby) decide to convert to a completely different faith.

 

Is it fair to force children to convert also?

 

I hear it often from converts on all ends; they converted (usually hubby too, in the context I'm referring to); their children now are expected to attend the church they (the parent) attends. No "if", "ands", or "buts".

 

I guess I don't find it fair in the least. My daughter is firmly Catholic. While she questions her faith at times (she is certainly in the logic stage, lol), she loves The Church and the we way we live our faith. At the age of 10, it seems horribly unfair to require her to change the way she believes, just to suit me, but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I'd love to hear from those who have done this. No judgments, though I might ask questions :D

 

I'm sincerely curious. I just don't understand it.

 

(By the way - I'm not converting :D. Just a question)

 

I see there are 4 pages of comments already and I don't have time right now to look at them all. However, you did ask the question from those of us who converted to something different, and I can answer that one. I converted from Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy, my husband did not (although he did look briefly). At the time our children ranged in age from 4 to 18. My 4yr old was pretty attached to mama, so it was decided he would come with me regardless... although your statement of "no if, ands or buts" rang a bit harsh. If he had pitched a fit, we certainly would have reconsidered. But, that is the type of parents we are... we're not uber-authoritarian. Our only point was that if it is Sunday, you have to be in church.

 

Anyway, with the other children, we let them decide. My 18 yr old was very, very involved in the Charismatic movement (although at the time we were attending a liturgical Lutheran church, which she disliked - its complicated :001_smile:). DD was even thinking of getting involved with dance worship (or something like that). Anyway, she reluctantly came to one service. Honestly, I think a mentor encouraged her to go with her mom, just to honor me (I really appreciated that person's attitude). But, somewhere in the middle of the service she leaned over to me and said "Mom!! I LOVE this place!!" The rest is history - she's now married to an Orthodox priest.

 

With the other, younger children... 4 of them came to me over the 7-8 months I was in instruction and told me they wanted to become Orthodox too. My next oldest child (son - 15-16 at the time) opted not to become Orthodox, but he wanted to go to church with me and not his dad. We even offered to go with him to visit the church his cousins attend, but he wanted to go with me. He's now in college and very involved in InterVarsity.

 

If my husband had converted with me, we would have held to the same principal that our children had to be part of a church. However, we would not have forced them to become Orthodox. I'm sure my priest would not allow us to force our children to become Orthodox anyway. Of course, the kids would go with us since that would be more convenient than trying to do some form of "short-order church attendance" every Sunday, but that wouldn't mean they would have to become Eastern Orthodox.

 

Just my experience.

[Haiku]

Religion is intensely personal, and people shouldn't try to force their religious views on others.

 

Unless, of course, your beliefs are the right ones. Then you should try to make everyone believe as you do. :p ;) :lol:

 

Tara

[Laurie4b]

When I've seen it happen, the children have converted, too, over time. I've not seen parents "force" conversion, though of course if kids can't drive, they will likely be going to the same place. I think it's logical that when the parents are of such a strong conviction that they convert, that there will strong reasons for it--reasons that may seem compelling to their children as well. After all, parents are very influential in their kids' lives.

[Laurie4b]

You use the word "converting." I reserve that word for different FAITHS such as Christian to Jewish, or Jewish to Muslim.

 

Are you speaking specifically of making changes between Christian denominations?

 

You may have your own personal use of the word, but I've never known anyone who went from Protestant to Catholic who didn't use the word "convert." (I've known several of those.)

[Ellie]

I think it would affect her negatively, given that (in our area at least, I cannot speak for other areas) even the non denominational churches are heavily protestant. There are significant differences between the way we worship and the way most of the more southern protestant churches worship. The entire culture of worship is very different.

Well, of course the non-denominational churches are "heavily protestant." If they're not Catholic or Orthodox, what else are they? :confused:

[Daisy]

Edited original quote because I misunderstood a side convo.

 

Back to original question. I have no problem having children participate in whatever denomination/religion the parents have chosen for as long as they live in their home (attend church, etc.). However, I would not force ANY child of ANY age to "convert" to anything. God does the converting.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Daisy

[AimeeM]

Well, of course the non-denominational churches are "heavily protestant." If they're not Catholic or Orthodox, what else are they? :confused:

Sometimes I think you just like to be argumentative :D

In other words, the churches tend to be ANTI Catholic. Here. BJU land.

Also, many people assume that when they say "oh I'm non denominational, you would like our church!", their version of non denominational is conducive with all Christian denominations, and it isn't... as you know.

[Retired]

The Living Bible (paraphrased) is what brought me to Christ. :D I would love a kid's version of that. I had to choose between the NIRV and the ESV at the store.

 

I use the NKJV, the New American Bible, the Amplified, and the NASB for Study.

 

I just had to share. My mother only had a 7th grade education and dyslexia which was not diagnosed. She had to leave home at 16 because of abuse. She was watching a Billy Graham crusade on TV and got interested in god. She then got the The Living Bible the first year in was published in 1971-72. She said it was the only thing she was able to read without problems. It was a Divine intervention. She has now been a Christian for 40 years and God has really healed her and she is able to read anything. She is still slow but considering no teacher and no therapy just the hand of God. Just thought I would share.

 

As for the op I would make my children that are of a age where they can't attend Church alone attend with me at my new Church but not make them join or whatever.

 

I believe in free will and working out your own salvation. I teach my children my beliefs and pray for their salvation. I don't force. I also let them make a decision where they will attend at age 13. I use to drop my oldest at another church then I would attend mine.

 

My dad was all about forcing use into a Christian mode. It sadly lead to all of use to leaving Christianity. I did find my way back. My sister and brother are both still living a very unchristian life

[Joanne]

I have been thinking about this thread. I think my answer is tied to the reality (IMO, anyway) that imposing a faith tradition on children from the start is coercive. By definition. So, imposing a change to the coercion? How significant or "fair" that is varies by situation.

 

I am currently in limbo; "allowing" my family to worship at a place I know is not my spiritual home. I am doing this to keep stability and continuity in their lives since the 4 of them need it profoundly given our recent history and current situation.

[farouk]

Edited original quote because I misunderstood a side convo.

 

Back to original question. I have no problem having children participate in whatever denomination/religion the parents have chosen for as long as they live in their home (attend church, etc.). However, I would not force ANY child of ANY age to "convert" to anything. God does the converting.

 

Daisy:

 

Exactly. The individual's conscience needs to be involved.

 

Reminds me of a guy talking to the 18th century Methodist John Wesley, and he pointed to a drunk and said: He's one of your converts.

 

Wesley replied: He must be one of my converts, you're right, because God sure didn't do it.

[Violet Crown]

You may have your own personal use of the word, but I've never known anyone who went from Protestant to Catholic who didn't use the word "convert." (I've known several of those.)

Part of that is that Protestant-ese and Catholic-ese are a little different. To (most) Protestants I've met, "convert" means to go from being a non-Christian to being a Christian. But Catholics use "convert" more loosely, to mean a change/deepening in faith. Paintings labeled "The Conversion of St. Francis" or "The Conversion of St. Anthony" aren't implying that Francis or Anthony weren't already Christian, just that they had a sudden deepening of faith. Ads in my parish bulletin for retreats will talk about "prayer, meditation, and conversion" -- but the retreat leaders would be quite startled if a non-Christian showed up.

 

Some Catholics are aware of the different nuance of "convert" for Protestants, and people on the RCIA team (for those preparing to enter the Catholic Church) avoid using the word "convert," as they don't wish to imply that the person in RCIA isn't already a Christian. But yeah, the average Joe Catholic will refer to anyone entering the Church as a "convert."

 

Now we just need a dictionary of Protestant- and Catholic-ese. We can start with sanctuary = nave, and altar = sanctuary.

[momofkhm]

You use the word "converting." I reserve that word for different FAITHS such as Christian to Jewish, or Jewish to Muslim.

 

Are you speaking specifically of making changes between Christian denominations?

 

:iagree:

 

I don't make my children join a church as they are children. But I do make them attend church. If we switched denominations, the kids would go to church with us. No ifs ands or buts. But they would not be required to "join" that church.

 

But I also am not dogmatic about denominational differences. I would make sure the new church has the "right" beliefs before we ever attend in the first place.

 

I have my eyes open, I think. My oldest has already told me she will not attend our parish once she is on her own. But it has more to do with people than with teaching - there are few people her age.

[Trish]

Well a forced conversion isn't really a conversion.

[shanvan]

Well a forced conversion isn't really a conversion.

:iagree: