jenbrdsly Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Full disclaimer: I'm a former public school teacher, current Afterschooler, and a Peace hill Press devotee. I'm not just writing this because VP is direct competitors for Susan Wise Bauer and Jessie Wise, whose homeschooling philosophies and opinions I deeply respect. But are the owners of Veritas Press CRAZY?????" Did anyone else find their Christmas greeting bizarre? I thought it showed an appalling lack of professional judgment to represent an education company by holding a gun. I have a bit of a rant about it on my blog. I'll be sticking with SOTW, and anything else the WTM recommends, thank you very much! Edited December 27, 2011 by jenbrdsly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 :blink: Er... that was... interesting. Between the look on his wife's face and the shotgun, it felt through most of the video like she really, really didn't want to be there and he was, shall we say, ensuring her compliance. Weird. But I guess they know their target demographic. Maybe next year they can cradle a baby Jesus wrapped in an American flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Full disclaimer: I'm a former public school teacher, current Afterschooler, and a Peace hill Press devotee. I'm not just writing this because VP is direct competitors for Susan Wise Bauer and Jessie Wise, whose homeschooling philosophies and opinions I deeply respect. But are the owners of Veritas Press CRAZY?????" Did anyone else find their Christmas greeting bizarre? I thought it showed an appalling lack of professional judgment to represent an education company by holding a gun. I have a bit of a rant about it on my blog. I'll be sticking with SOTW, and anything else the WTM recommends, thank you very much! I'm not seeing what the problem is. Who cares if it isn't professional? It sounds like they were going for personal, homey, friendly. It felt a bit awkward like they were trying a bit too hard, but that's it. Oh, you are freaking out about the gun. LOL. Not sure what to say to that, as I just left my FB page where my cousin's child had patches of deer blood smeared on his face for his picture with his first kill. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'm not anti-hunting, nor am I against the 2nd amendment. I just think that guns and schools (or even homeschool catalogues) do NOT go together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 It seemed a little too staged and unnatural, especially the way he was holding the gun; but I don't see the problem. I have some of their products and I love them. I also grew up with hunters and my dad had guns locked away in our house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I want to give his wife a hug. She looked like she's going through a lot right now :( :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'm not anti-hunting, nor am I against the 2nd amendment. I just think that guns and schools (or even homeschool catalogues) do NOT go together. We aren't schools - we are homeschoolers. Most of us homeschoolers go out of our way to be as little like schools as we possibly can :D Many of us are homeschooling because we dislike many/most things about our local government run schools - so it's isn't an argument you are likely to win amongst homeschoolers using the "schools and ---- don't go together" (whatever your "-----" happens to be; religion, guns, or any marriage of the two). For what it's worth, I won't use them because we're Catholic and VP is very... not. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I think they know their customer base. Christmas, family, deals on homeschool curriculum, and guns...yep. This video will probably not be a problem for them. Did you know that nobody gets hurt and nothing gets killed (as a general rule) in skeet shooting? Clay Pigeon Shooting--Wikipedia I'm not a VP customer or fan, but I have no problem with the video. I don't agree with you that it's disturbing, crazy, chilling, offensive, or bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'm not anti-hunting, nor am I against the 2nd amendment. I just think that guns and schools (or even homeschool catalogues) do NOT go together. I think they were just trying be very family oriented, they picked something they were going to do as a family, that may be important to them, and use it for a joke in there message. Cheesy?? Yes, but not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I adore Veritas Press products, but that was just weird. I don't object to guns at all and I don't see why they needed a gun in their holiday greeting. Strange stuff. Edited December 27, 2011 by LibertyH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 No problem here with the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I want to give his wife a hug. She looked like she's going through a lot right now :( :grouphug: She's probably just like me. I'd die if I had to do something like that. Just let me hide in the background PLEASE. That's all I see. A bit of social awkwardness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 It seems strange to send a greeting message to anyone but your enemy while holding a weapon. I don't understand what the purpose of it is. It is so large as to be unlikely that he just happened to be holding it when he started the recording. I would be equally puzzled if she were holding a flag or an apple pie or a giant pencil. It just seems over the top. However, maybe their target audience finds it appealing, a sense that they are one of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 She's probably just like me. I'd die if I had to do something like that. Just let me hide in the background PLEASE. That's all I see. A bit of social awkwardness. I was thinking that, too. I was thinking, "She's going to hate that she was nervously stroking that dog while she talked." Because I would have done that, and then felt like it looked dumb. And, like ol' Marlin, there, my husband would have thrown it up on the internet anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIS0320 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'm not anti-hunting, nor am I against the 2nd amendment. I just think that guns and schools (or even homeschool catalogues) do NOT go together. I agree. Even more, what place does a gun have in a Christmas greeting vid? It's just weird. It is the over-emphasis on it being purposely chosen to be IN the video that is so weird, I'd have no issue if it were hanging over a fireplace or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Sorry, but I think you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. If you watch the whole video, he says the gun was Laurie's grandfather's and the sons want to shoot it for the first time. He also said they're hoping to shoot their Christmas dinner. I don't like all VP's philosophies/curriculum, but I have used them and are going to use them starting in Jan along with SOTW. I don't like hunting, or guns. However, my father and my husband's father are both hunter safety instructors and avid hunters. More than once my in-laws have had a hunting picture as their Christmas card. It just depends on your likes and personalities I guess. Blessings! Dorinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I thought it was pretty lame. Kind of like in the 70's when everyone was trying just a little too hard to be hip and/or folksy. Plus it just strikes me funny that anyone would film an advertising video on Christmas Eve. But whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Eh . . . To each their own. I thought it was a bit corny, but that's it. And to answer your question, no, I do not think VP gives homeschoolers a bad name. I can see you have idealogical differences with VP, though. I use and appreciate their products. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'm not a VP customer or fan, but I have no problem with the video. I don't agree with you that it's disturbing, crazy, chilling, offensive, or bizarre. What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleWMN Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. The wife wasn't silent. She talked. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. If you'll delete your post, I'll delete this quoting of it. We have Islamic friends on this board who might be very offended by what you've said here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. LOL. Seriously? Frankly, the only thing I see as bizarre is this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. So . . . do you think the gun was meant to coerce submission:confused: Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'm not anti-hunting, nor am I against the 2nd amendment. I just think that guns and schools (or even homeschool catalogues) do NOT go together. Well, considering that we used to have an annual clay pigeon shooting contest at Grandma's house at Thanksgiving, I don't see the problem :D. Have you considered that your offense at the greeting might give public school teachers a bad name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Well, considering that we used to have an annual clay pigeon shooting contest at Grandma's house at Thanksgiving, I don't see the problem :D. Have you considered that your offense at the greeting might give public school teachers a bad name? :D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 LOL. Seriously? Frankly, the only thing I see as bizarre is this thread. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. That is incredibly offensive and rude. Shame on you for even comparing the two. If you feel homeschools and schools should so closely compare, what are doing on a board of generally dedicated afterschoolers and homeschoolers - most of whom are very tolerant of the diversity on this board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 LOL. Seriously? Frankly, the only thing I see as bizarre is this thread. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Hoping for a quiet end to this thread. A bit weird of a holiday greeting, but clay pigeons..... are clay :) That's all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 A guy holding a gun in a homeschool Christmas video isn't any weirder than having a pro-slavery "paleo-Confederate" Minister write your materials on Slavery and Slave Narratives. These are some very (very) bizarre folks :001_huh: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 This was a very blatant phallic symbol. I mean .... the way he was holding it!:lol: (disclaimer: I have not, to my memory, called anything else a phallic symbol since the early 90s.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 If you'll delete your post, I'll delete this quoting of it. We have Islamic friends on this board who might be very offended by what you've said here. I have friends who follow Islam too, and I recently spent a week with my six year old reading Muslim Child so that he could have a better understanding about that religion. Last summer we also read a children's version of The Ramayana, The Bhagavad Gita, and A Child's Garden of Torah. I am teaching my children to have respect and knowledge of all religions including our own (United Methodist). I am sorry if I offended anyone who follows Islam, for that was not my intent. My point was that VP teaches from a conservative Protestant perspective, and people are rushing to their defense for featuring a gun in their message. Would the same be true if they were teaching from a conservative Islamic perspective? I don't think that guns should be associated with schools, nor should they be associated with religion. I also don't think that guns should be associated with teaching from a religious perspective --- any religious perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 My point was that VP teaches from a conservative Protestant perspective, and people are rushing to their defense for featuring a gun in their message. Would the same be true if they were teaching from a conservative Islamic perspective? I understood your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 He also said they're hoping to shoot their Christmas dinner. That part was a joke--he said they were going to shoot clay pigeons & then said he hoped they got enough for dinner, LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I understood your point. I understood it, too. And I thought it was an interesting question. But then, I'm known around these parts for being the crazy, liberal, pacifist one. So, I'm sure no one would be surprised to hear that I, too, found the gun at the very least off-putting. I will admit to looking over the Veritas catalogue every few months and considering using some of their products. I likely won't be able to do that again without remembering the image of that man holding a weapon. Do I think it's "wrong?" No. But I do think it shows a certain amount of poor judgement. (Or perhaps they do know their audience.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 :blink:Between the look on his wife's face and the shotgun, it felt through most of the video like she really, really didn't want to be there and he was, shall we say, ensuring her compliance. LOL, I did have a mild sense of that same thought! Actually it looked to me like the dog wanted to leave and the wife was kind of detaining it--that distracted me more than the gun! From Jen's Blog: "Can you imagine if your child’s school sent out holiday cards with a picture of the principal holding a rifle in the school office?" See, I take this as not a lack of professional judgment, but rather a deliberate choice, purposefully included in a "home school" video. A gun is one of the strongest statements someone can make to say, "we believe in our rights and will stand up for them." Not just 2nd ammendment rights, but right to home school and any other rights. It was like making a statement to people who specifically DON'T use public school--it's one more way to show that home school is totally different, and it's about different things (freedoms, family time, and so on). It's *because* it was a home school video that the gun can make any semblance of sense that it wouldn't make if it was a public school video. Now, it did strike me as strange that he would hold a gun while talking about all the people that they loved who died this year. And it did strike me as a strange, overall Christmas greeting--I'd probably separate out the gun AND the "sales" from a Christmas Eve greeting, but that's more a stylistic choice on my part. I don't hunt or own a gun, but have lots of friends who do. I'd consider learning how to hunt, gun safety etc... worthy of elective credit--so I don't object to the gun itself, or an educational company using a gun in a promotional video--this just wasn't the time that I'd have personally chosen to use it! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 See, I take this as not a lack of professional judgment, but rather a deliberate choice, purposefully included in a "home school" video. A gun is one of the strongest statements someone can make to say, "we believe in our rights and will stand up for them." Not just 2nd ammendment rights, but right to home school and any other rights. Ummm . . . not for this homeschooler. I agree that a gun is a strong statement, but I don't see it as connected to homeschooling or rights in any way. Honestly, the view you're expressing is, I always thought (hoped), a far-fetched stereotype of homeschoolers. It makes me think of this scene from "Mean Girls." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I read the comments here before watching the video. I have never used any VP products. Here's the possibility I saw. Christmas is largely celebrated as a time to get together with family and to remember those family members who are no longer with us. The gun is a family heirloom and is a symbolic link with their ancestor. By going out as a family to shoot grandpa's gun they were connecting with their family members who are no longer with them. And yeah, I did feel sorry for his wife. She looked like she was seriously distracted by trying to keep the dog on the couch. She looked fine when it was her turn to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I think they know their customer base. Christmas, family, deals on homeschool curriculum, and guns...yep. This video will probably not be a problem for them. Did you know that nobody gets hurt and nothing gets killed (as a general rule) in skeet shooting? Clay Pigeon Shooting--Wikipedia I'm not a VP customer or fan, but I have no problem with the video. I don't agree with you that it's disturbing, crazy, chilling, offensive, or bizarre. I thought the joke about getting enough clay pigeons for dinner was amusing (Clay pigeons are disks made out of pulverized rock. They aren't like Rock Doves, which are a real bird), but that they both looked like they didn't have a lot of on camera time. I thought his wife looked like she was say at the thought of the friends they'd lost during the year and concerned that the dog was going to run away. The suggestion that she's being coerced into being on the video seems odd to me. (Most of the wives of gun owners I know are about the least likely to be coerced women I know.) I've used some of their products happily in the past, but have to resolve some questions before I would be willing to use Omnibus. But going shotgun target shooting is not one of my concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. If the script were the same and he were discussing going down to the local version of Dog and Game and shooting trap with the family? No issue with it at all. He didn't discuss violence against anyone. Not even against birds, since they were headed target shooting. But then I don't have a problem with gun ownership or use within legal restrictions. And I don't think that right only belongs to people who share my ethnic background, or religious or political views, as long as they are acting within the law. There was nothing in the video that suggested the shotgun was for forcing people to use their curriculum or for fending off officials who challenged homeschooling or for using on someone if they got out of line or for forcing religious compliance. That would have been disturbing. But mentioning that they were headed off to the range to have fun. Sound like a good time. Make sure you're back in time to be done cleaning the guns before dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I am a total 2nd amendment rights girl, and we strongly support legal gun ownership, but this was just strange. It reminds me of the father who sits down to talk to his daughter's boyfriend while cleaning his gun. He also mentions RC Sproul Jr.'s recent loss, and other recent deaths while holding it. It may have been a corny joke, but why not wait till the end of the video to bring it out. Dude, that was just uhmm, wierd. This would not be the first time VP has put me off. (for other reasons not related) Edited December 27, 2011 by MyLittleBears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't think most people outside of homeschooling circles know what VP is, so no, I don't think VP gives homeschoolers a bad name. I do know what VP is, and I have always thought the curriculum was weird, but I'm sure other people think what we do is weird, so I don't worry about it. So as a fellow homeschooler, I don't think VP gives homeschoolers a bad name. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I think this was just a badly done Christmas video...no biggie...from their family to ours:D. I really thought this was going to be more of a post on how VP believes that a classical school is WAY better than homeschooling, but since everyone can't have a VP school, they will sell us their stuff....but we could NEVER put out a product as good as theirs. ( This was based on a newsletter they sent out a few years ago...which really ticked me off!). I do use some of their materials, and had for years before their ridiculous newsletter....and I think they produce a very usable, interesting, educational product however, That view of theirs had held me back from buying more of their products....or using their classes again. I guess it just soured my opinion. This video....meh.....no biggie.....Mr. Detweiler just looks silly and his wife looks uncomfortable.....oh well. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 This was a very blatant phallic symbol. I mean .... the way he was holding it!:lol: (disclaimer: I have not, to my memory, called anything else a phallic symbol since the early 90s.) LOL. :D I can see why it might bother someone who teaches in a school (Jen is an afterschooler, btw), but I think it's important to keep in mind intent. In this case, I don't think the man in the video intends to harm anyone or incite violence. I do think it's a poor choice of symbol that the public could use to describe homeschoolers in general. On the travel board I visit, members occasionally criticize or make fun of homeschoolers using examples like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 That reminds me of a bumper sticker popular in New Hampshire-- my wife yes, my dog maybe, my gun never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I do think it's a poor choice of symbol that the public could use to describe homeschoolers in general. On the travel board I visit, members occasionally criticize or make fun of homeschoolers using examples like this. I'm tired of constantly defending homeschooling. Stuff like this doesn't help. One of the reasons why I like SWB and the PHP products is because it seems pretty mainstream. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I still have no idea what someone's religion has to do with their enjoyment of hunting? Nor what it has to do with a woman being nervous on camera. What does religion have to do with any of this?! And the fact that people who enjoy hunting (live or clay pigeons) and for whom huge shotguns are as homey as pumpkin pie AND people who get nervous when sitting silently on camera ALSO happen to homeschool and/or publish homeschool materials doesn't incline me to judge and broad-stroke any subgroup of the country I live in (regardless of their religion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Don't get the gun prop but with the interest the video is generating it might be a clever advertising ploy or a really bad choice. :lol: I don't know much about guns but that one looks really big. Kinda reminded me of 'American Gothic'...only with a huge gun instead of a pitchfork. Maybe he is going for something along these lines: Either way, is comes off looking peculiar IMO. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 What if they were promoting a homeschooling company that taught from a conservative Muslim perspective instead of a conservative Protestant view? Same scenario; silent, nervous looking wife (this time wearing a hijab) sitting next to a husband holding a gun and doing all the talking. Would that make you pause? I would think that would make the national news. I find this post anything but offensive. If the same set up with a man with big gun talking and silent, nervous wife would fly no matter who they were, then it is some universally acceptable thing. I agree; it wouldn't be. I'll propose another: a tall, muscular black man selling his black power curriculum while holding a gun and noting the passing of such dear friends as Kim Jong-Il and Andy Rooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I find this post anything but offensive. If the same set up with a man with big gun talking and silent, nervous wife would fly no matter who they were, then it is some universally acceptable thing. I agree; it wouldn't be. I'll propose another: a tall, muscular black man selling his black power curriculum while holding a gun and noting the passing of such dear friends as Kim Jong-Il and Andy Rooney. :lol::iagree: I'm sorry. That put SUCH a picture in my head. The wife looked beyond nervous. I felt sorry for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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