Joy at Home Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't think that video will do anywhere near as much damage to the public opinion of homeschooling as the Jesus Freak documentary did/is doing. I do think that the explanation about the deceased relative who owned the gun and the family activity planned for later would have better placed at the beginning of the video rather the end, but otherwise... meh. I have no issue with guns or gun ownership, and actually just walked in the door after taking my six year-old to the range to use his new BB rifle, and I've never checked out VP's materials so I can't really comment on that. All I know is that they're very much not secular, and so not for us. If the book/books in question really do paint slavery in the light described, well, that's pretty galling. I wasn't in their demographic before, though, so no loss for them, I guess. I'm curious - What is Jesus Freak and why is it causing damage? Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I thought the greeting was bizarre because it sounded more like a promotional video than a Christmas greeting. Yuck! The gun didn't bother me in the slightest, and I don't understand the OP's strong reaction. Oh well, to each her own. Jen used to teach. Teachers live with the aftermath of Columbine and other school shootings (new school policies, etc.) and the fear that it could happen again. Unfortunately, it is a very real danger still. Thus, linking guns with education might be seen through a teacher's eyes as inappropriate. I am guessing that is the reason Jen felt strongly about the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Jen used to teach. Teachers live with the aftermath of Columbine and other school shootings (new school policies, etc.) and the fear that it could happen again. Unfortunately, it is a very real danger still. Thus, linking guns with education might be seen through a teacher's eyes as inappropriate. I am guessing that is the reason Jen felt strongly about the video. This I get. In light of that, I could totally see where it bothered her. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland_Mom Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It is judgmental folks who give Homeschoolers (and anyone) a bad name. I don't mean to take a shot at you personally...just sayin. :iagree::iagree: I have been reading this thread all afternoon and am shocked by some of the judgmental comments that people are spewing! I find many of the comments shared on this thread FAR more offensive than the VP Christmas Video. If you would like to hear Mr. Wilson explain his views on Southern Slavery, watch this and listen to him explain that he is NOT a slavery supporter -- quite the opposite. FWIW, Wikipedia is not always a reliable source. When researching a topic, one should always find additional sources to verify accuracy of information. Veritas Press is largely a publishing company and distributer of educational materials. A huge percentage of the things they sell and recommend are things that MANY other companies and respected homeschoolers promote. Veritas Press certainly does not promote slavery, racism, or violence. IMO, they work hard to provide helpful, excellent educational products for homeschools and private schools. Their Christmas video was a little atypical . . . that's all. So what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 If you would like to hear Mr. Wilson explain his views on Southern Slavery, watch this and listen to him explain that he is NOT a slavery supporter -- quite the opposite. FWIW, Wikipedia is not always a reliable source. When researching a topic, one should always find additional sources to verify accuracy of information. Thank-you. After watching this video and finally understanding what Wilson does actually believe and teach on the subject - including the circumstances behind and purpose of his original pamphlet - this thread has gained, for me, an additional irony that makes it even more disturbing than it already was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama27 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Full disclaimer: I'm a former public school teacher, current Afterschooler, and a Peace hill Press devotee. I'm not just writing this because VP is direct competitors for Susan Wise Bauer and Jessie Wise, whose homeschooling philosophies and opinions I deeply respect. But are the owners of Veritas Press CRAZY?????" Did anyone else find their Christmas greeting bizarre? I thought it showed an appalling lack of professional judgment to represent an education company by holding a gun. I have a bit of a rant about it on my blog. I'll be sticking with SOTW, and anything else the WTM recommends, thank you very much! I think the video is a little cheesy, he doesn't look comfortable with the gun, and I believe I saw another dog wonder around by the tree but I don't think there is anything crazy about it. Most homeschoolers don't seperate the academic part of their lives from the rest of their lives, maybe that's not something you don't understand? No offense intended!! Also, what part of the country is he from? Here, in the south, guns are like hair brushes. In other parts of the country, they aren't so popular. One could ask why the dog was there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm shocked people defend Doug Wilson and Veritas Press. Wilson's pro-slavery position is well-known (Wilson believes slavery is "biblical" and therefore good). Having Wilson write on slavery in homeschool materials is a weird as wielding a gun in a Christmas video. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakimberly Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't do guns. It creeped me out. We don't hunt. It's just not us. Nothing personal, but yeah, kinda creepy to me. And my husband (a public school teacher) said "Holy ****. What are they thinking?" Of course, he's used to attending things like the National Science Teachers Conference and seeing their promo videos there and it is just a different world from homeschool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakimberly Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm shocked people defend Doug Wilson and Veritas Press. Wilson's pro-slavery position is well-known (Wilson believes slavery is "biblical" and therefore good). Having Wilson write on slavery in homeschool materials is a weird as wielding a gun in a Christmas video. Bill If that is true (and I haven't researched it and have no knowledge of it, so I'm just taking your word for it because I tend to agree with you a lot) that is creepy x10. Or 100. I'm thankful we don't have any of their books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 If that is true (and I haven't researched it and have no knowledge of it, so I'm just taking your word for it because I tend to agree with you a lot) that is creepy x10. Or 100. I'm thankful we don't have any of their books. You probably don't want to read such clap-trap, but in case you are interested in reading the very ironically named "Southern Slavey as it Was" here is a link. http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/slavery/southern_slavery_as_it_was.htm Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommybee Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 What I thought was more peculiar was including "Evangelical atheist" Christopher Hitchens in their list of family and friends who'd passed away this year. Uh ... how exactly did he fit in? :001_huh: I didn't watch the video, but on this point: Douglas Wilson and Christopher Hitchens came to be good friends and did a tour where they debated Christianity with each other. There was a documentary they made that was very interesting on how the two of them became friends even with such different views. I would imagine that's why he might have been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleWMN Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I didn't watch the video, but on this point: Douglas Wilson and Christopher Hitchens came to be good friends and did a tour where they debated Christianity with each other. There was a documentary they made that was very interesting on how the two of them became friends even with such different views. I would imagine that's why he might have been mentioned. Oh, that's cool. Thanks for explaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't have any comments on their products or their beliefs, but sending out a Christmas greeting while holding a shotgun is a little weird. Even after he explained it. Just odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Just claiming someone is racist and/or pro-slavery does not make it so. If you really want to know the truth behind the so-called "pro-slavery" booklet, then watch the youtube video that was posted. :iagree: Edited December 29, 2011 by MyLittleBears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 What was the deal with the gun?! The little spiel at the end explaining it did not seem to relate to anything having to do with rest of the vid. But hey, it's America, you want to shoot (hahaha) a youtube Christmas vid while holding a gun, you have the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Please refrain from calling names/attacking other posters if you continue this discussion. Talk about issues and arguments, not each other. Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3peasinapod Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I didn't read through all the pages, but I see no problem with it. We are not hunters ourselves, but I didn't find it awkward at all. I think he was trying to convey some Christmas family traditions, and however they may differ from our own, it's lovely that they are going out to do something that their loved one loved to do. Did I catch that part right, someone close passed away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poke Salad Annie Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't have any comments on their products or their beliefs, but sending out a Christmas greeting while holding a shotgun is a little weird. Even after he explained it. Just odd. I agree. It was very weird for me too. Just don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't have an opinion on the VP folks; I don't know them personally. But many people include a prop in family photos; in a good case, it is something meaningful. In a bad case, it is something the photographer rammed into their hands. The VP folks included a family heirloom prop in their video, something that tells about them personally. Not that unusual, really, and there is nothing unusual or weird about a firearm, in or out of school, as long as it isn't pointed at a human. Actually one of the things I like about homeschooling is no longer worrying about one of my normal, healthy, boys getting in trouble over a complete non-issue such as holding up a finger and pretending he was holding a gun at school. It is something most kids do in the normal course of play (most kids learn to hide it if their parents are hyper about it, but they still do it!). I lived just up the street from Columbine at the time that it happened. I am not insensitive to the problem. But my cousins all also went to a high school where it was normal to bring their hunting rifles with them to school and just check them at the office on their way in or out between classes during deer season :lol:. Guess which group of kids is more knowledgable about gun safety and etiquette? Not the ones who have to pretend they don't exist as if a finger is some kind of lethal weapon that warrants expulsion in our district, even at the kindergarten level. That makes about as much sense as accepting the TSA's security theater as 'necessary.'. I believe a prominent American most of us know once said: There is nothing to fear but fear itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 You probably don't want to read such clap-trap, but in case you are interested in reading the very ironically named "Southern Slavey as it Was" here is a link. http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/slavery/southern_slavery_as_it_was.htm Bill Okay, I read it. What exactly is this guy's relationship to VP? My problem isn't so much with his position (as off as I believe it to be), as much as with the completely sloppy "scholarship" full of huge logical fallacies obviously written by someone not at all familiar with the subject about which he wrote. Besides the utter lack of research/thesis writing skills, I'd say his main problem is that he's grasping desperately to defend slavery because the Bible doesn't condemn it. For those who said Bill or anyone else called him a racist, they didn't. They said he believes in slavery. I watched the video posted also, but that doesn't really address the slavery issue that his writing did. While he did say that the South wasn't entirely blameless in how slavery looked here, he makes it very clear that slavery is Biblical and there is nothing inherently wrong in ownership of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Okay, I read it. What exactly is this guy's relationship to VP? My problem isn't so much with his position (as off as I believe it to be), as much as with the completely sloppy "scholarship" full of huge logical fallacies obviously written by someone not at all familiar with the subject about which he wrote. Besides the utter lack of research/thesis writing skills, I'd say his main problem is that he's grasping desperately to defend slavery because the Bible doesn't condemn it. For those who said Bill or anyone else called him a racist, they didn't. They said he believes in slavery. I watched the video posted also, but that doesn't really address the slavery issue that his writing did. While he did say that the South wasn't entirely blameless in how slavery looked here, he makes it very clear that slavery is Biblical and there is nothing inherently wrong in ownership of people. VP sells some of his books and he is a contributor to the Omnibus program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Wow, that was thoroughly bizarre. I have no problem with him going out with his boys to shoot clay pigeons on Christmas Eve. The joke about shooting enough for dinner was even mildly cute. But why not just pick it up at the last minute as he's explaining where he's off with his boys? Instead of making the ENTIRE THREE MINUTES about, "Here I am holding this BIG GUN"?!?!? It was so wildly incongruous. What did it have to do with Christmas or memories of those lost over the last year or home schooling or anything else? By putting something that really didn't belong there for nearly three minutes, it made the whole video about "how I'm holding this big gun". ?!?!? And while I'd hope it doesn't say anything about home schoolers generally, I do think that it was a stupid, offensive thing to do. I'm a home schooler. I like some of the products VP has to sell. It doesn't mean I share political beliefs with the Detweilers -- and anyone who argues that that wasn't a clear political statement is kidding themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Why is this thread under K-8 curriculum anyway? who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 who cares. At least 40 of us. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Ick, yes, it is a put off. :ack2: Poor taste and judgment, if you ask me.. Edited December 29, 2011 by lovemykids typo, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 LOL. Seriously? Frankly, the only thing I see as bizarre is this thread. I agree! I don't use VP products, but I thought nothing of the gun and his comment about shooting clay pigeons for dinner was funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 and his comment about shooting clay pigeons for dinner was funny! I didn't get that far...:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 weird as wielding a gun in a Christmas video. Bill Nothing weird about holding a family heirloom on a Christmas video at all. It was held, pointed in a safe direction at all times and obviously means a great deal to the family. Had they been holding a tennis racket, Grandma's quilt or just a tool no one would have said anything, but an old shotgun and people start making comments. Skeet is a wonderful wholesome family activity and the shotgun is an essential part of said activity. I simply do not see what the issue is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 There are many things which give homeschoolers a bad name. I don't think this video will be one of them. I thought the most disturbing part was seeing Laurie looking either distraught or uncomfortable. I understand the potential reasons behind her distress, but why send that out to the public? Like someone else said, it seemed like an awkward family video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Wow, that was thoroughly bizarre. I have no problem with him going out with his boys to shoot clay pigeons on Christmas Eve. The joke about shooting enough for dinner was even mildly cute. But why not just pick it up at the last minute as he's explaining where he's off with his boys? Instead of making the ENTIRE THREE MINUTES about, "Here I am holding this BIG GUN"?!?!? It was so wildly incongruous. What did it have to do with Christmas or memories of those lost over the last year or home schooling or anything else? By putting something that really didn't belong there for nearly three minutes, it made the whole video about "how I'm holding this big gun". ?!?!? And while I'd hope it doesn't say anything about home schoolers generally, I do think that it was a stupid, offensive thing to do. I'm a home schooler. I like some of the products VP has to sell. It doesn't mean I share political beliefs with the Detweilers -- and anyone who argues that that wasn't a clear political statement is kidding themselves. The big gun was so in your face, so I felt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The big gun was so in your face, so I felt.. :iagree: I don't have a problem with it, but it's just weird and awkward. Yes, I would find it just as strange if he was holding a golf club. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Let's just say I wouldn't show this to my mainstream friends who already think homeschoolers are a little... off. :D:iagree: I don't think any of us are "freaked out" by the gun, or actually offended. I think it's more that we're confused by its presence. And ftr, I grew up in northern Minnesota in a house with many guns, and was in the Army for a time after high school. I've been around more guns than a lot of people, and I was still confused by it. Not offended, or angry, but genuinely baffled. I think it would have helped if he'd referenced it at the beginning of the video, instead of just sitting there holding it and smiling without a word about it. Then we would have had a bit of context, at least. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 It was weird until I got to the end, and he said they were going to shoot clay pigeons. Maybe they should have mentioned that part earlier. FUN! But I wouldn't eat them for dinner.... The wife did look a bit nervous, but I would too in her position. That is NOT my thing at all, so I would look the same way. They seemed to warm up as the video moved on. I don't think I have any VP products, mainly because the one I want costs too much, and my kids are to young to consider Omnibus. It's odd that if I were a VP customer, I'd be one of "that" group of people... Yup, let's put all people, whom we don't know, in little boxes based on a knee-jerk reaction because of one video made by one company they have bought something(s) from. That's the Christmas spirit. .... (From someone who's been on the receiving end of the "You are obviously this kind of [horrid, lazy, disgusting, mean] person" assumption once to often.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txhomemom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) . Edited December 29, 2011 by txhomemom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Ummm . . . not for this homeschooler. I agree that a gun is a strong statement, but I don't see it as connected to homeschooling or rights in any way. Honestly, the view you're expressing is, I always thought (hoped), a far-fetched stereotype of homeschoolers. It makes me think of this scene from "Mean Girls." :confused: Hm, no, that's not what I was thinking at all, blech! All I meant was...it wasn't necessarily accidental or a faux paux as the OP proposed. I don't think of guns as representing home schooling either. I was trying to say that it makes a strong visual statement that might be taken as a metaphor for standing up for constitutional rights, just as we do the same as homeschoolers, not that guns are a symbol of homeschooling. I could be totally wrong on why they included it--it really could be just because he thought it would be funny or interesting--to grab people's attention. Or just to share a hobby. Whatever the reason--I felt it was purposeful, but even if not, I don't think it gives home schooling a bad name. And I really, really don't think it evokes the bad stereotype that my post somehow brought to mind for you. Edited December 29, 2011 by MerryAtHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Here's the possibility I saw. Christmas is largely celebrated as a time to get together with family and to remember those family members who are no longer with us. The gun is a family heirloom and is a symbolic link with their ancestor. By going out as a family to shoot grandpa's gun they were connecting with their family members who are no longer with them. Hm, I hadn't thought of that, interesting take! That may be the closest thought yet, that would make much more sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Is there no one on this board who is either camera shy or suffers from "stage fright"? I don't think this is an unhappy woman-maybe a shy woman. What I am left wondering is why folks would first assume that she is somehow being repressed or coerced before any other explanation? I really didn't think she was being coerced, it's just that with him holding the gun, the thought crossed my mind in a humorous sort of way that probably doesn't come out when I try to explain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You probably don't want to read such clap-trap, but in case you are interested in reading the very ironically named "Southern Slavey as it Was" here is a link. http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/slavery/southern_slavery_as_it_was.htm Bill Thanks for that. What a fascinating and thought-provoking read! Okay, I read it. What exactly is this guy's relationship to VP? My problem isn't so much with his position (as off as I believe it to be), as much as with the completely sloppy "scholarship" full of huge logical fallacies obviously written by someone not at all familiar with the subject about which he wrote. Besides the utter lack of research/thesis writing skills, I'd say his main problem is that he's grasping desperately to defend slavery because the Bible doesn't condemn it. For those who said Bill or anyone else called him a racist, they didn't. They said he believes in slavery. I watched the video posted also, but that doesn't really address the slavery issue that his writing did. While he did say that the South wasn't entirely blameless in how slavery looked here, he makes it very clear that slavery is Biblical and there is nothing inherently wrong in ownership of people. Exactly. He makes a good point. However, one thing I felt like he glossed over a bit was the problem with the master/slave roles being based on race. Yes slavery is justifiable Biblically, but racially determined slavery is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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