What to do with a 6 y/o who complains...

[momsuz123]

every. single. day. about. every. single. subject? My middle child is 6.5 y/o, in first grade. It is our first year hsing. She hated ps, hated it. She says she wants to hs, and never wants to go back to ps. She is actually making really nice progress in hs. Just last night, I was jumping for joy and telling her how proud I was of her when she read a challenging book by herself. I have scaled way back on what I have her do. Really now, my goal with her is to focus on reading, phonics, and math. The 3 r's minus not much writing. She would prefer to just play all day and never school. What do I do? Do I try and find a different private school and send her? My older one, loves school in general. She is doing excellent in hs and even accelerating her growth of learning. But my middle one, ugh. Like I said, she is making good progress at home, much better than if she was in ps. What if she grows to dislike me so much one day because I am her teacher and she hates everything about school? I have tried rewards, etc. Nothing works. I give her choices, everything. Nothing works.

Any advice? If I scale back anymore on her, we might as well call it preschool. I never yell at her, am very positive, but I do tell her my expectations when she tries to be ultra defiant and doesn't want to do anything.

[Beth in SW WA]

If you were to ask my dds what happens if they whine they will answer, "If we whine, moan or complain about our work then Mom will double it."

 

If my kids so much as sigh, grumble or give any negativity about our school work they get their work doubled. It's that simple. A teacher at school would not (or should not) tolerate complaining. This isn't a democracy.

[momsuz123]

Sorry, it's not always that simple. My son just wouldn't do the extra work. And it wouldn't matter what I threatened or did about it. He is a tough nut to crack...that's for sure.

 

Mine is the same way, she would just keep refusing to do anything. The other problem that I am having is that I have a small window to really crunch down and get work done - when my little guy, who just turned three is being happy and playing more independently. So, when she is in her "I don't want to do anything mood" and he is actually being good, I lose that window. Then after much work on my part, she starts doing some school with me, but then my little guy needs mommy time, or has decided to turn my house upside down to get attention. Also, I love the idea of giving more work, but she is pretty dependent still so I may have trouble finding the right work for her...but I am going to start working on that. Maybe taking away playtime, etc?

[ezrabean2005]

What is your child's "currency"? If it's free time, play time, TV time, early bed time - use it. It doesn't sound like you are asking too much of her academically. In my house, those would be gone until the work was done as requested. I do my job teaching and the kids need to their job by learning / completing the work.

[TracyP]

IDK if this will work for you but my 6yo must do his work IMMEDIATELY after finishing breakfast or I lose him. I clear his dishes, wipe the table and he starts. We work together (or I lose him) for about an hour (more than that and I lose him - see a pattern here:)) and then he is free to play until later in the morning when we do history/science as a group. I make these "concessions", but I do not tolerate whining. Increased work load is the threatened consequence for ANY complaining, although I haven't had to actually do it.

[Farrar]

Maybe set up a "gripe time" when she can complain to her heart's content for a set amount of time to your full attention (maybe just 10-15 minutes) but come down harsher when she does it in the middle of lessons or at other times. Tell her to lock it up for later, or put it on her "gripe list" or something.

 

I don't think that would work for all kids, but I think some kids just need to unload and can't figure out how to do it.

[momsuz123]

What is your child's "currency"? If it's free time, play time, TV time, early bed time - use it. It doesn't sound like you are asking too much of her academically. In my house, those would be gone until the work was done as requested. I do my job teaching and the kids need to their job by learning / completing the work.

 

 

Good idea, I need to start thinking/working on this. She loves her play time, bummer for her if she starts losing that. Each child is so different. I just am struggling finding how to motivate this child.

[caedmyn]

I don't know if this would work for you, but I've had good success motivating my very sloooow almost 6 YO with a timer. I set the timer for what I think is a reasonable amount of time to finish the job/project/paper/etc and if she beats it, she gets to tally the remaining minutes on a little chart to use for computer time (Starfall or Spanish games). That's the only way she can earn computer time.

 

So maybe you could use something similar with whatever motivates your DD? If she's focused on getting something done quickly she's not going to be complaining about it.

[southernm]

I had the same issue. My ds6 kept saying he wanted to go back to ps because he got more breaks and it was easier. We had many conversations about why that wasn't true and I think he finally gets it. Also, OPGTR and spelling were causing him huge frustrations. I switched him to ETC. He seems to be much happier with this approach. I feel like some of the small curriculum changes I've made have paid off in huge dividends.

[Doran5]

Not in HS yet, but have issues with chores. Not sure of your religious views, but there is a scripture about do everything without complaint. You could make her write it 3 times for every complaint.

We have a chore jar( you could make a schoolwork jar). I used a plastic jar and put the "cost of each chore or rule" not done on the jar. The kids each have a set of poker chips(yeah, I know, but that's all I could think of for color coded different amounts) with their names on them, they start out the week with x amount of money(you could do playtime minutes) for every rule broken, chore not done, or complaint made, they have to put their chips in the jar. so at the end of the week, I either owe them or they owe me. Let me tell you, the first week my kids had to pay me, put an end to the problem.

[Ellie]

Why would sending her to another school be a solution? :confused:

 

Some of us might suggest that a little unschooling for awhile might not be a bad thing. I would expect children who are just 6½ to want to do nothing but play. :)

 

It probably would be a good idea to put away the Official School Stuff until after the holidays and just enjoy the moment. Next year (and that means January, lol) you can re-evaluate what you're doing with her to see if it's really suiting her needs. Children don't always have the maturity to figure out why they're unsatisfied about what's happening in their lives, so sometimes they just complain.

[Aurelia]

I would tell her that until she gets her work done with a good attitude, she will sit there doing nothing for the entire day, if necessary, then focus on something else that has nothing to do with her while she sits in isolation. If Ariel starts with a bad attitude, she has one chance to leave the room and return with a better one, and if she won't, she sits in the corner until she is ready to work. If she persists, she loses toys, play time or visits with friends. She tried to challenge me in the beginning, but now she knows I mean business and generally doesn't pout and whine. We all have our bad days, though. We have also had several talks about how bad attitudes make other people feel. One other thing I did once was to turn the tables on her and either refused to do anything she asked or was profoundly negative and whiny about it. It was sort of fun to let my inner toddler out :tongue_smilie: but it was also a good teachable moment because I don't think she really understood what her whining looked like to other people. We talked about it afterwards.

[momsuz123]

Why would sending her to another school be a solution? :confused:

 

Some of us might suggest that a little unschooling for awhile might not be a bad thing. I would expect children who are just 6½ to want to do nothing but play. :)

 

It probably would be a good idea to put away the Official School Stuff until after the holidays and just enjoy the moment. Next year (and that means January, lol) you can re-evaluate what you're doing with her to see if it's really suiting her needs. Children don't always have the maturity to figure out why they're unsatisfied about what's happening in their lives, so sometimes they just complain.

 

I know, I know...sending her to another school is a stupid, ugh excuse. I wouldn't do it. I just hate seeing her hate any school so much. But then, after she complains, and disrupts everyone, she gets to work (with me) and does well. We laugh, get work done, and keep it upbeat. I did just give her a whole week off last week. I will think about everything else you mention. I am, like I said, really backing off on her with school. The main focus is reading, phonics, and some math. Not much at all.

Thanks for all the great advice everyone. I love hsing and wouldn't change it for the world. I really have no intention of putting my kids back in ps. I just am being challenged so much by this one child.

It is so true when someone said the first year you hs, you spend so much of your time learning how to teach your child...then the next year, you get to really teach them.:)

[Beth in SW WA]

Sorry, it's not always that simple. My son just wouldn't do the extra work. And it wouldn't matter what I threatened or did about it. He is a tough nut to crack...that's for sure.

 

What happens when he's 16 and won't listen/respect -- with car keys in his hand? If a child doesn't respect a parent at age 10 what will cause him to obey as a teen when the cost is much higher?

 

Someone here said years ago that the first step in homeschooling is teaching your child to respect the parent. Everything (well, almost everything) after that is cake. :iagree:

[Beth in SW WA]

Right...so I'll just beat the crap out of him.

 

?????

 

I think you just don't understand until you have a child like that.

 

Perhaps I do. :)

 

My kids won't be driving at 16.

 

That's what I said years ago. But with 4 kids to schlep around it sure is nice having a 3rd driver in the house.

 

I have a strong-willed son also, Wendy. I know of what you speak. :)

[jennynd]

Right...so I'll just beat the crap out of him.

 

I think you just don't understand until you have a child like that.

 

My kids won't be driving at 16.

I see what u saying. I have 2 stubborn kids. if I threaten them by doubling the work, there is simply not thing will be done. We always "negotiate" and compromise. Something it will be me and something it will be them. In my mind this process of "challenge authority" is important. I don't want to raise children with no ability to stand out for themselves but just accepting authority.

[BW1426]

Does she only complain about things related to school? My 5.5 yo DD has recently entered a phase where she complains and argues constantly. It is about everything. It is driving me nuts. I haven't figured out a solution yet other than ignoring and saying things like "I'm sorry this is not what you'd hoped it would be, but let's focus and work through it, then we'll be done." It doesn't seem to decrease the griping, but it does send her the message that griping won't get you out of things. She even complains and argues about things that she creates or dictates. I sure do hope it is a short lived phase.

[Beth in SW WA]

I see what u saying. I have 2 stubborn kids. if I threaten them by doubling the work, there is simply not thing will be done. We always "negotiate" and compromise. Something it will be me and something it will be them. In my mind this process of "challenge authority" is important. I don't want to raise children with no ability to stand out for themselves but just accepting authority.

 

My kids stand out and think for themselves. They are unique individuals and I foster their growing needs and am in tune with nearly everything that goes on in their young lives. BUT -- they know who is in charge. And it's the parents. I don't tolerate disrespect. What's "cute" at age 6 is NOT cute at 16. Trust me. I have worked with teens for years at church and in our community. Average, gifted and below-average, struggling teens. Kids, regardless of IQ, want boundaries. They want to trust the adults in charge. It's innate, imho.

 

I'm not going to tell anyone how to parent. I'm only an expert on my own kids. That is daunting enough. :)

[caedmyn]

What happens when he's 16 and won't listen/respect -- with car keys in his hand? If a child doesn't respect a parent at age 10 what will cause him to obey as a teen when the cost is much higher?

 

 

:iagree: I clearly don't have it all figured out, because he's 3 and he drives me nuts most days, but I completely agree, and I have an EXTREMELY strong-willed child. The sort that makes you shake your head when you hear other parents' "strong-willed child" stories and secretly think, "If that's what they're calling strong-willed, they had it easy!"

[Halcyon]

This was my son in the beginning of the year. I was pretty strict about requiring him to do a certain amount of work, and he soon realized that no amount of whining was going to change that (plus he was put in time out, or received extra chores). He now, for the most part, does his work cheerfully.

 

ETA: I am not saying he never moans. But he doesn't like the consequences for moaning, so he doesn't do it often.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Halcyon

[Halcyon]

My kids stand out and think for themselves. They are unique individuals and I foster their growing needs and am in tune with nearly everything that goes on in their young lives. BUT -- they know who is in charge. And it's the parents. I don't tolerate disrespect. What's "cute" at age 6 is NOT cute at 16. Trust me. I have worked with teens for years at church and in our community. Average, gifted and below-average, struggling teens. Kids, regardless of IQ, want boundaries. They want to trust the adults in charge. It's innate, imho.

 

I'm not going to tell anyone how to parent. I'm only an expert on my own kids. That is daunting enough. :)

 

 

:iagree:. And my kids, particularly my older, are very strong-willed, opinionated children.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Halcyon

[Missouri Okie]

Similar to what ezrabean said, use the currency that works. My now 7 year-old used to be the ultimate complainer. About six months ago, a poster on this board talked about a penny system. I created a derivative of this that HAS WORKED WONDERS.

 

My son's currency is video time.

 

He starts out with 5 pennies in the jar and 5 pennies out. When I call him for school, if he comes without complaining, it's a penny in the jar. If he complains, it's a penny out. The rest of the school progresses the same way. If he's going along with a good attitude, I casually drop a penny in the jar. If he whines, I casually take a penny out without any recriminations. If he has all 10 pennies in the jar at the end of our school time, he gets to play a half-hour of video games. If the jar is not full (which has only happened once), he sits with me for half an hour while his little sister gets to watch TV.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Missouri Okie

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

If you were to ask my dds what happens if they whine they will answer, "If we whine, moan or complain about our work then Mom will double it."

 

If my kids so much as sigh, grumble or give any negativity about our school work they get their work doubled. It's that simple. A teacher at school would not (or should not) tolerate complaining. This isn't a democracy.

 

This is the same thing I do with my young 7yo dd, though I'm not quite that strict about it. The same thing happens if she grumbles about housework.

[Beth in SW WA]

Back to what you originally said. You are saying it is "that simple". It's not that simple. If I say I'll give you more work he won't do more work. So then what happens? I can take the very little he has away. I can send him to bed early. I can tell him to sit there. He won't care all that much if I take stuff away. He won't stay in bed. And he won't sit there.

 

Hmmmm..... Not sure how to respond to this. I'll shut up now since we're dealing with different personalities. Disobedience is not an option here. My kids can be stubborn -- but I am even more so. :)

 

You're doing great, Wendy. Sorry if I offended you or anyone in this thread. (insert peace-offering smiley)

[Farrar]

What happens when he's 16 and won't listen/respect -- with car keys in his hand? If a child doesn't respect a parent at age 10 what will cause him to obey as a teen when the cost is much higher?

 

I agree with this... but I also think there are ways to earn that respect that don't involve strong arming a kid.

 

When my kids get really whiny, I don't give extra work, I send them away. The whine is to get attention. The work means I have to give them MORE attention. The work from before is still there (we have a system where all the schoolwork for the week goes up on a board and gets slowly removed over school time) so they know they still have to do it. When they come back, they're usually a lot more willing to cooperate.

 

I also just have an issue with schoolwork being a punishment. Schoolwork is a requirement because you need to learn. Writing, reading, even math or extra history lessons or something - those are things to take joy in. They're not always fun, but I don't ever want them to be punishments.

 

In our house, you have the right to be annoyed or to complain. You don't have the right to complain relentlessly when things aren't going to change or to whine.

[poetic license]

Right...so I'll just beat the crap out of him.

 

I think you just don't understand until you have a child like that.

 

My kids won't be driving at 16.

 

Wendy, are you sure you don't have my son?

 

:lol: Our issues aren't schoolwork related, but I completely "get" the bit about certain consequences just not working. Sometimes they just.freaking.don't.work. And there are those who insist that as long as the parent sticks it out and "outwills the child" he will be compliant. If only life were so simple. :tongue_smilie:

[Halcyon]

 

I also just have an issue with schoolwork being a punishment. Schoolwork is a requirement because you need to learn. Writing, reading, even math or extra history lessons or something - those are things to take joy in. They're not always fun, but I don't ever want them to be punishments.

 

I agree with this. That said, I have made them complete their work in the evening as homework so I don't have to listen to it anymore :lol: (they don't get my help or companionship in the evening, but need to do their work alone in their room, which they dislike).

[Embassy]

My first year homeschooling I was frustrated because my son didn't like many of the things we were doing for school. He wanted to be off playing. I was given the advice by a former teacher that some kids won't enjoy school. I refused to accept that. I believe children inherently enjoy learning, but school is often viewed as work.

 

Fast forward to today and my former Kindergartener is now in 4th grade and he loves school. Sometimes he tells me at night that he is excited because the next day is a school day. This kid has always loved to learn, but it took me some time to figure out how to connect with that part of him. Figuring out the way he learned was very important. Changing my expectations about how material should be learned was important too. I'm not advocating curriculum hopping, but sometimes a change is necessary. Sometimes you can just change how you use a curriculum.

 

My second son is in 2nd grade and he doesn't love school. He likes it most of the time, but he doesn't look forward to it most days. I'm still working on him. I am observing what connects with him and figuring out how to best teach him.

 

So I guess my advice might be to give your child more school time, but add in things that your child would love to do. Talk positively about school with your kids. I found it to be catchy. I say things like "Yay! Tomorrow is a school day." or "We get to learn about x tomorrow or do x project." You have an advantage with your older child liking school because your older child can echo your positive words and make a greater impression on your younger child.

 

There are some things that have to be done. These things might not be enjoyed, but they should be a small part of the school day.

[lewelma]

The Hive has had this conversation before - positive vs negative reinforcement. You will get advice clearly in these 2 camps.

 

First of all, perhaps you are aware of the 4 levels of frustration and how you can identify them:

attention seeking: makes you feel annoyed

Power struggle: makes you feel angry

Revenge: makes you feel hurt and

Hopelessness: makes you feel despair

 

You want to disengage from these behaviors.

 

Here is my opinion and I am a positive reinforcement type of parent: Do not get into a power struggle with a strong-willed child. All I can say is yuck. You might win the battle but you also could lose the war.

 

Talk to your child about what he needs to accomplish and how you can help him achieve it. First, find some reward that works for him. I am not suggesting a bribe, but something that reflects his effort to change. For my son it was a paper chain that was hung all over our reasonably formal family room for all the world to see. Each ring represented a good attitude for 1 subject each day. After the subject was done, we added the next chain. He got a lacy one for his hardest subject (writing) IF it was done with a good attitude. Getting done with a bad attitude does not get a chain. Make sure in the beginning that a subject is ONLY 5 or 10 minutes to make sure a chain can be earned and the routine begun. Second, reduce your expectations. Do 2 subjects with a good attitude and then move to 3 the following week (or month). Then 4, etc. But give your young child time to adapt to school, and time to work on attitude.

 

This method has worked beyond my wildest hopes with my youngest.

 

Good luck,

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited November 30, 2011 by lewelma

[Farrar]

 

Here is my opinion and I am a positive reinforcement type of parent: Do not get into a power struggle with a strong-willed child. All I can say is yuck. You might win the battle but you also could lose the war.

:iagree:

 

I think a lot of ways you can "win the battle" are things that work best when kids are younger too. They're things you simply can't do when a kid becomes a teenager. One of the best pieces of parenting advice I ever got was that you should think really carefully before employing any parenting strategy that your kids will outgrow. Ideally, you want to parent in ways your kids will grow into.

[Caribbean Queen]

WendyK, Beth posted about what she does in her home. What she does with her kids is not complicated, but simple. She didn't say everyone must do things like her, nor did she guarantee it would work for everyone.

 

If you were to ask my dds what happens if they whine they will answer, "If we whine, moan or complain about our work then Mom will double it."

 

If my kids so much as sigh, grumble or give any negativity about our school work they get their work doubled. It's that simple. A teacher at school would not (or should not) tolerate complaining. This isn't a democracy.

 

See?

[Haiku]

She would prefer to just play all day and never school.

 

Well of course. Play is play and school is work.

 

Too bad, so sad. ;)

 

I would just inform her that school time is from X:00 until X:00, unless she chooses to make it longer by arguing with you. Then just stick with it. It's not negotiable. By dropping a bunch of stuff, you probably showed her that if she argues, she has to do less. By giving her choices, you probably showed her that she has control of the situation. That may work for some kids, but it appears not to be for yours.

 

Arm yourself with a clear, written schedule. Sit down with dd and show her the schedule. Inform her that this will be her school day from now on. Perhaps schedule and incentive for right after school: tv time, computer time, something she looks forward to that she's not allowed to do until school is over. And keep plugging away.

 

Many schooled kids don't like going to school and working, but no one suggests cutting back their school day. It's just what they do.

 

Tara

[laundrycrisis]

If you were to ask my dds what happens if they whine they will answer, "If we whine, moan or complain about our work then Mom will double it."

 

If my kids so much as sigh, grumble or give any negativity about our school work they get their work doubled. It's that simple. A teacher at school would not (or should not) tolerate complaining. This isn't a democracy.

 

IMO this needs to be used carefully. If I reacted this way to my 6 yo DS, he would shut down completely. On the other hand, it's very effective for our 8.5 yo DS !

 

What motivates our 6 yo the most (BTW he has never been to school) is keeping school very short, giving him tasks that he can easily be successful at with a little challenge, but not too much, and large amounts of free time once he has finished his work. He is somewhat immature for his age, a perfectionist, has low confidence, a slight fine motor delay, is very easily frustrated, and explosive (to the point that he has been through one therapist as much as she could help and will probably see another before we are through it.) So I tread very carefully with him. Every success he experiences builds him up, and he is beginning to approach something like confidence. When he complains I say, "Look ! You can do this ! Just get through this one thing and that is all you have to do for that today. " Each day he does three things - math, either in a workbook he asked for or in Dreambox, reading, choosing either Looney Tunes Phonics, Reading Eggs, or his Starfall readers, and practicing writing letters in his workbooks. I consider this his K year because he just turned six two months ago and that is the grade the PS would have put him in. I know this does not sound like a lot of work, but IMO what's important is that he is overcoming what is challenging to him each day, overcoming his own resistance to doing it at all, making progress, and feeling good about it. IMO there is plenty of time for him to progress to doing more work each day. Right now what motivates him is lots of success with challenges that are not overwhelming to him and plenty of time to play.

 

Our 8.5 yo also had to build gradually toward doing a larger amount each day. I have kept in mind that 1:1 work is more intensely focused that doing work in school, and the idea that for the elementary grades, 1 hour per academic year is a good amount of time for focused seatwork. In grade 2 I had a hard time getting him to focus for 2 hours (broken up into 30 minute blocks with breaks in between) but I really pushed for it. This year is grade 3 and he is able to do closer to 4 hours of focused work now and is interested and enjoying it. When he does get in a complaining mood I remind him that he is into "big kid" schoolwork now and complaining is a good way to end up with less free time. Free time is still his biggest motivator so he doesn't want to mess with that.

[ezrabean2005]

Well of course. Play is play and school is work.

 

Too bad, so sad. ;)

 

I would just inform her that school time is from X:00 until X:00, unless she chooses to make it longer by arguing with you. Then just stick with it. It's not negotiable. By dropping a bunch of stuff, you probably showed her that if she argues, she has to do less. By giving her choices, you probably showed her that she has control of the situation. That may work for some kids, but it appears not to be for yours.

 

Arm yourself with a clear, written schedule. Sit down with dd and show her the schedule. Inform her that this will be her school day from now on. Perhaps schedule and incentive for right after school: tv time, computer time, something she looks forward to that she's not allowed to do until school is over. And keep plugging away.

 

Many schooled kids don't like going to school and working, but no one suggests cutting back their school day. It's just what they do.

 

Tara

 

:lol: I didn't know anyone else says that to their kids!

 

I also agree with your advice. If she were in PS, she wouldn't have a choice. She'd lose recess, a privilege, etc. but she'd still need to get the work done.

Edited November 30, 2011 by ezrabean2005

[Haiku]

:lol: I didn't know anyone else says that to their kids!

 

 

My kids are also familiar with the world's tiniest violin (thumb and forefinger) playing "I pity you." ;)

 

Now, before every one gets all het up, these things are said with a big smile, in a joking manner, and everyone knows it means "You're being overly dramatic for nothing." I don't say this to my kids when they are genuinely upset about something.

 

Tara

[Mommy22alyns]

:lol: I didn't know anyone else says that to their kids!

 

I also agree with your advice. If she were in PS, she wouldn't have a choice. She'd lose recess, a privilege, etc. but she'd still need to get the work done.

 

 

That's what happens here too.

[Halcyon]

My kids are also familiar with the world's tiniest violin (thumb and forefinger) playing "I pity you." ;)

 

Tara

 

Hey! We do that!:tongue_smilie:

[Farrar]

I know it's not really very nice, but I have been known to sing that old song, "Everybody hates me, nobody likes me, guess I'll go eat worms..." when my kids get a bad case of the whines.

[Sahamamama]

My kids are also familiar with the world's tiniest violin (thumb and forefinger) playing "I pity you." ;)

 

Now, before every one gets all het up, these things are said with a big smile, in a joking manner, and everyone knows it means "You're being overly dramatic for nothing." I don't say this to my kids when they are genuinely upset about something.

 

Tara

 

I don't do the violin thing here, but I have actually said the words:

 

 

"If you don't get that work done NOW,

without whining,

I know a big, yellow BUS with your name on it."

 

Works here. ;)

 

 

 

[momsuz123]

Thanks all so much! I have had fun reading all of your posts. I am going to try a few ideas - the penny jar is a great idea for her age. I am also a positive reinforcement parent. I love the paper chain link idea. She doesn't have a lot of self confidence, that should help her when she gets to show it off to friends, relatives, etc. Some sort of the little violin is going to have to start in our house too.

She really had a horrible experience in ps, makes me mad, because she loved preschool. Makes me not like ps all the more, because I have to do so much "repair" work with her. I do a lot of high fiving, goofy stuff during the day to get her laughing. She loves the new AAR and I do some goofy stuff with that. We also just started adding OPGTR, and she...hates it. I read some threads on here on how to make OPGTR more fun, I am going to try those, or just utilize some of their ideas, without her seeing the book. All that print I think is a huge turnoff for a child who already doesn't like to read. So yes, looking at the curriculum is a big thing too.

I agree, not to make school too easy on her, it isn't. I am just deciding for awhile to really focus on what she needs the most, and then add in more. She does love science though, I need to figure out how to work that in more.

Thanks for so many ideas. It is funny how you raise your kids all the same (or close to), and they are all so different - makes it more fun I guess.

[happycc]

When you let them...

 

I just tell them "it is what it is"..."too bad so sad"

 

and here is your assignment and if it is not done well -you will do it all over again.

 

And I give them that LOOK!

 

;)

 

I find there are some things that are not negotiable because if we sat and argued over everything..then who is the parent.

 

I learned that the hard way---I was WAY too lenient with the first set and then I tried to change it and boy did they go crazy...

 

Second and third set...too bad I know better.

[5 Hikers]

What is your child's "currency"? If it's free time, play time, TV time, early bed time - use it. It doesn't sound like you are asking too much of her academically. In my house, those would be gone until the work was done as requested. I do my job teaching and the kids need to their job by learning / completing the work.

 

 

:iagree: Every child has a currency! You just got to find it. My oldest used to refuse to do math. He would sit at the table 4-6 hours doing nothing rather than just do his math. He didn't care that I took away free time, outside, video games, or tv. I may get flamed for this, but what worked is taking away meals. I told him he would not eat lunch until his math was done. After 1 day of missing lunch he amazingly finished his math in 45 minutes the next day. Once he realized I was serious, he just started doing it without complaining. Haven't had a problem with school with him in 2 years now!

My middle child loses computer time, it is his best motivator.

[Chris in VA]

OP, what are some of the things she enjoys doing during playtime? Knowing this may help us find you ways of incorporating these likes into school time.

[lindsrae]

My first year homeschooling I was frustrated because my son didn't like many of the things we were doing for school. He wanted to be off playing. I was given the advice by a former teacher that some kids won't enjoy school. I refused to accept that. I believe children inherently enjoy learning, but school is often viewed as work.

 

Fast forward to today and my former Kindergartener is now in 4th grade and he loves school. Sometimes he tells me at night that he is excited because the next day is a school day. This kid has always loved to learn, but it took me some time to figure out how to connect with that part of him. Figuring out the way he learned was very important. Changing my expectations about how material should be learned was important too. I'm not advocating curriculum hopping, but sometimes a change is necessary. Sometimes you can just change how you use a curriculum.

 

My second son is in 2nd grade and he doesn't love school. He likes it most of the time, but he doesn't look forward to it most days. I'm still working on him. I am observing what connects with him and figuring out how to best teach him.

 

So I guess my advice might be to give your child more school time, but add in things that your child would love to do. Talk positively about school with your kids. I found it to be catchy. I say things like "Yay! Tomorrow is a school day." or "We get to learn about x tomorrow or do x project." You have an advantage with your older child liking school because your older child can echo your positive words and make a greater impression on your younger child.

 

There are some things that have to be done. These things might not be enjoyed, but they should be a small part of the school day.

I agree with this.

[momsuz123]

Yeah! Some of your ideas were a huge success. Basically, I just did the penny jar idea. I used colorful puff balls and explained how each child starts the day with 5. They have to earn 5 more to get any play time when school is done. (They still get their "recess", as I need a break from school to play with my little guy) I was very good about explaining that there is no whining allowed, ever. The girls saw how easy it was to lose a puffball if they so much as uttered a whine. But then they saw how easy it was to earn one if they got to work right away, didn't complain, got to the school room right away when it was their turn, etc. At the end of the school day, my 6 y/o realized she only had 9. She knew to play Barbies with her sister (her favorite thing to do), she needed one more. With no complaining, she said, "can I please do some more school or anything to earn another puffball?" Yeah!!! Success. It was good conditioning for me too - to realize I need to come down a little quicker when they do whine, etc. I didn't yell or anything (I gave that up awhile ago - not how I want to raise my children), just spoke very matter of fact. I also added some more "fun things" for my 6 y/o too - she loves math games.

Thanks all, you have all helped me so much. I don't have any close friends that hs (working on that though), it is nice to get ideas from other who "get it".

[SorrelZG]

My first year homeschooling I was frustrated because my son didn't like many of the things we were doing for school. He wanted to be off playing. I was given the advice by a former teacher that some kids won't enjoy school. I refused to accept that. I believe children inherently enjoy learning, but school is often viewed as work.

 

Fast forward to today and my former Kindergartener is now in 4th grade and he loves school. Sometimes he tells me at night that he is excited because the next day is a school day. This kid has always loved to learn, but it took me some time to figure out how to connect with that part of him. Figuring out the way he learned was very important. Changing my expectations about how material should be learned was important too. I'm not advocating curriculum hopping, but sometimes a change is necessary. Sometimes you can just change how you use a curriculum.

 

 

Similar story here. We have plenty of opportunity for practicing respectful obedience with a good attitude - if simple changes can make this particular opportunity easier then I have no reason not to do that. At the start of the year I was pulling teeth almost and we were dreading school daily. It's not like now he's begging to do school but he is enjoying it more and getting more out of it because I found that I could do it in a way that made it easier for him to succeed in cooperating with a good attitude (not that he doesn't have moments but he's light-years from where he was months ago). The kinds of changes I highlighted in the quote above, in my opinion, are an expression of respect for the child and make it easier for the child in fulfilling their duty to respect their parent. That will look different for each parent/child but I believe it should be carefully contemplated before settling into a "simple" zero tolerance approach (which I'm not entirely negating in some form).

[serendipitous journey]

... I haven't read the PPs, so am not up on the thread ...

 

When Button gets complainy, I let him know I'm cracking down, I start by timing out unkind, whiny, or complaining comments and then we stop school for the day. If we stop for the day the usual consequences ensue: it was loss of all his "upstairs" toys (in the living areas, not his bedroom) but lately that's not been so feasible, sometimes he has to be in his room for the time that would have been spent in school; I hear of families that do "no work, no food" but my MIL lives upstairs and this would not go over well ;) even if I were so inclined.

 

We haven't got it all figured out yet, but I am disciplining him toward positive and pleasant speech, by doing my best to enthusiastically notice and appreciate his good attitude and by helping him to stop his negative attitude. If he can't be reasonably happy in his current situation he will not be happy in any life I can imagine for him, and I've told him this gently and explained that we are trying to teach him how to live a happy and good life. I also try to model a good attitude and a great deal of appreciation for the blessings we have, and am very very positive about the things he does correctly in school, very very gentle in correcting mistakes, and I thank him several times a day for the good work he does. -- My actual techniques and consequences are flexible but the goal of a happy, disciplined child is not :).

 

The good news is that he is becoming more appreciative of his life. On average. I think. ;) But he is definitely a child who tends toward whining so the issue prob. won't disappear for years, if ever. Bright side: he's super sweet and empathetic.

 

-- good luck!

 

ETA: we did drop Phonics Pathways b/c he truly hated it (we're doing Reading Pathways, which he enjoys), and when I tried incorporating Singapore Math he hated it too (though the level may have been wrong ...) so I dropped it; now that I've scanned the PPs I have to agree that sometimes a different approach or curriculum is in order ...

Edited December 2, 2011 by serendipitous journey
more info.

[MerryAtHope]

What would you do if she complained about every single chore she had to do, or brushing her teeth, or cleaning her room?

 

What would you do if she flat out said no?

 

This age is the prime time for kids to get more sophisticated in how they say no--complaining and arguing are often the new language of "no," because they know "no" won't be acceptable. But they might get somewhere with complaining or arguing.

 

I like school to be enjoyable, and I always told my kids I wanted it to be that. But part of that is their attitude--they can choose whether or not to do something with a good attitude, even if they'd rather be playing. I don't complain every time I have to cook their food or wash their clothes, and they wouldn't like it if I did--so they shouldn't complain about their chores or their school either.

 

Don't be afraid of her hating you & hating school. Discern if there are legitimate reasons, and try to help with those, but also let her be responsible for her own attitude. If you're responsible for her happiness, you'll never find something she won't complain about.

 

Also think of it in terms of "legitimate" complaints, or just complaining because she'd rather play. Does she have plenty of time to play? Then it's probably not legitimate. Is there a reason she doesn't like it? One time we struggled through a math program I loved & I finally got another program & showed my then just 7 yo. He looked at the new one and told me that the writers of the old one didn't want children to understand math. His complaint was legitimate--the old curriculum didn't fit his learning style and frustrated him unnecessarily (it wasn't just "math" or just not wanting to work, etc...). If you can ascertain whether there are legitimate issues vs. just thinking if she complains enough you'll let her play, you'll be well on your way to helping her.

 

Merry :-)

Edited December 3, 2011 by MerryAtHope

[MerryAtHope]

I agree with this... but I also think there are ways to earn that respect that don't involve strong arming a kid.

 

Yes. I think it's not so much about controlling the child as it is learning how to get both of you on the same team.

 

When my kids get really whiny, I don't give extra work, I send them away. The whine is to get attention.

 

Yes. Although in certain situations I have given more chores to a whiny child, most of the time I sent a whiner to their room to think and/or pray. When they were ready to cooperate, they had to come back, ask forgiveness for the wrong action (not the feeling, but the action), and then we'd work it through, role-play other possible responses (what DO you want them to do when frustrated etc... or, what will help THEM when they are frustrated?), and then try again together.

 

 

Here is my opinion and I am a positive reinforcement type of parent: Do not get into a power struggle with a strong-willed child. All I can say is yuck. You might win the battle but you also could lose the war.

 

Yes! And....it's too easy to think of parenting as battling with our children. If we can shift our thinking to...battling FOR our child, suddenly we are not antagonists. It's not me trying to get my child to do something. It's realizing we have a common goal and how can we both work together towards that goal. You may have to help the child realize there is a common goal--or you might have to work to find it. When my ds was 7 & the issue was math, I started an allowance. Math is important because he wants to understand money and be able to save and spend and budget for things--and it's important all his life. Now we have a common goal, and math is no longer a "punishment" or something mom does to the child. He's invested in education now, even if he still doesn't love it.

 

When he was 5th grade and it was writing...he knew enough to know he'd need to be able to write sometimes, but he still hated it. The common goal? He wants writing to be easy. I want it to be easy for him. To get to easy will take some practice and some work.

 

Talk to your child about what he needs to accomplish and how you can help him achieve it.

 

Yes. Teamwork. Sometimes we approach chores or education like throwing a child into a pool and expecting them to swim while we stand and watch--even though they haven't done it before. Or we yell a few instructions--and while we don't realize it, it's an incredibly frustrating, antagonistic relationship we're creating, and the tasks seem impossible, and it's no wonder they fight and complain and push back.

 

So then we have to find different methods and different ways...how can we all work together? How can build bridges so that we're not on opposite sides? How can we create a relationship here?

 

I really like something that IEW pushes--give as much help as they need. So often we're afraid to help, afraid they'll never learn to do it on their own, so we use the sink or swim approach. Sometimes we need to figure out what working together would look like and how to get there with a child who seemingly has no goals together with us! It's not easy, but bit by bit we can get there. I do think relationship and figuring out how not to be antagonists is key.

 

Merry :-)

[warneral]

Reward good behavior. If you are against tangible rewards, consider just positively pointing out when she has good behavior. Lots of "I'm proud of your attitude today" and "great work figuring out this problem!". Every once in a while I'll surprise them with a little treat, but verbal positive reinfocement can be even more rewarding for a kid! Best wishes. I would really work on the attitude now in whatever way might work best for her.

 

This all assumes it is work that she is ABLE to do at her stage in development.