More specific OE/YE poll

[Mrs Mungo]

Poll coming, wait for it!

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Other, because I'm non-Christian, but don't know and don't think it matters. I believe in the evolutionary process of living things, but don't rule out a creating force.

[FairyMom]

"Old earth, evolution but there is a God or creator"

[Renee in NC]

Christian, but do not know and do not think it matters

 

It's something I use to wrestle with, but finally decided it really didn't matter. We're here, so why waste time arguing about how we got here?

[pdalley]

Christian, I don't think it matters.

 

I believe God made the world. It matters not to me if He did it in a literal 7 days or via evolution. I believe He did it. I think YE/OE is yet another thing for Christians to get divisive about. My kids are learning about both creationism and evolution.

[Mandy in TN]

Voted Other

 

I am culturally Christian and decidedly old-earth, but unsure if the current theory of evolution as presented in basic high school texts is the answer to how life emerged. Whatever the scientific mechanism for the beginning of our universe and/or the beginning of life on planet earth, I don't believe that scientific mechanism rules out a Creator.

 

Mandy

[creekland]

I voted. I'm a Christian and I don't think it matters, but I voted the way I personally believe it was more likely to have happened.

 

I teach my boys many different beliefs because they are going to run into people believing differently in their lives and I want them to be knowledgeable from several sides - not just one. They will decide which way they believe for themselves (if they care). Of course, they also know the reasons WHY I believe what I believe. ;)

 

But overall, I don't think whether one gets into heaven or not is based upon what one believes about the beginning and I try to pass this on too.

[Margo out of lurking]

Christian, but do not know and do not think it matters

 

It's something I use to wrestle with, but finally decided it really didn't matter. We're here, so why waste time arguing about how we got here?

 

Yes, I wanted to choose two. I believe YE, micro, God, but I also believe it doesn't matter. It's just another tool satan uses to divide. It's quite successful . . .:glare: (and no, I'm not referring to this poll, lol!).

[MSNative]

I voted. I'm a Christian and I don't think it matters, but I voted the way I personally believe it was more likely to have happened.

 

I teach my boys many different beliefs because they are going to run into people believing differently in their lives and I want them to be knowledgeable from several sides - not just one. They will decide which way they believe for themselves (if they care). Of course, they also know the reasons WHY I believe what I believe. ;)

 

But overall, I don't think whether one gets into heaven or not is based upon what one believes about the beginning and I try to pass this on too.

 

:iagree: Excellent post.

[8circles]

I voted YE micro not macro etc but didn't read enough of the poll. That's what my opinion would be but I admit that I could be wrong. I really don't know nor does it matter.

[Parrothead]

Old earth and theistic evolution.

[Bluegoat]

I said old earth, evolution, creator. I am as sure as possible about the creator bit, and i think the scientific explanation in a general sense is a very good one. I fully expect that it will be improved over time, and of course it could be totally wrong. People have made some pretty awsom mistakes historically about what the evidence points too.

 

I do not think this is a salvation issue, unless it makes a person behave uncharitably. I think if people use it to try and exclude people from being Christian they absolutely are responsible for that.

 

I don't think I would say it doesn't matter. I think wonder in creation is a beautiful thing and part of our purpose here. I also think that dividing theology and science as having different objects is theologically incoherent and even dangerous.

[ChandlerMom]

nit-pick: creationism is not just a christian phenomenon -- the belief in a YE creation is shared by some fundamentalist muslims as well (esp in Turkey). I don't know if any jewish groups also believe in a YE creation, but all 3 groups share roots.

[annandatje]

I selected the first option. Slow gradual change over eons is more intuitively logical possible explanation to me than a supernatural being creating the world. Like another poster said, I seldom ever think about it although it can be quite the controversial topic.

[hsmom2011]

n/m

[jenL]

Christian, but do not know and do not think it matters

 

It's something I use to wrestle with, but finally decided it really didn't matter. We're here, so why waste time arguing about how we got here?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Iucounu]

This is a great poll. Especially in the wake of the Penn State scandal, which may have been directly caused by belief in evolution, should we explode out the evolution-belief options to indicate the presence or absence of a moral compass?

[SailorMom]

I had to vote "Old earth, Evolution, with a God" - even though there was also the non-Christian belief vote as well.

My view isn't Christian - but it is the one I voted on :)

[Mrs Mungo]

This is a great poll. Especially in the wake of the Penn State scandal, which may have been directly caused by belief in evolution, should we explode out the evolution-belief options to indicate the presence or absence of a moral compass?

 

Since I am an old-earth, evolution-believing Christian who argued *against* the perspective that atheists have no moral compass in that thread (and just argued against Genty's theory in another thread) that was a pretty crappy remark on your part. But, I guess jerkiness knows no religious bounds.

[Iucounu]

Nothing is aimed at anyone in particular and certainly not you, Mrs. Mungo. I'm just interested in finding out some useful demographic info, and would ask the same question if anyone else created this poll.

[Mrs Mungo]

Nothing is aimed at anyone in particular and certainly not you, Mrs. Mungo. I'm just interested in finding out some useful demographic info, and would ask the same question if anyone else created this poll.

 

You claim to be an atheist and you actually believe that some atheists lack a moral compass? Or you are trying to prove a point of some kind that has nothing to do with this thread?

[Spy Car]

I have never in my life (save on this forum) heard the position of those who accept the scientific consensus that the earth is (roughly) 4.5 billion years old being described as "Old Earth."

 

It is as weird to me to vote for an "Old Earth" option as it would be to vote for a "Round Earth" option.

 

Bill

[Jen in PA]

I have never in my life (save on this forum) heard the position of those who accept the scientific consensus that the earth is (roughly) 4.5 billion years old being described as "Old Earth."

 

It is as weird to me to vote for an "Old Earth" option as it would be to vote for a "Round Earth" option.

 

Bill

 

I thought the same thing when I first saw the poll, but I figured it made things easier to keep the phrasing consistent.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have never in my life (save on this forum) heard the position of those who accept the scientific consensus that the earth is (roughly) 4.5 billion years old being described as "Old Earth."

 

You've obviously never lived in the South...or attended a homeschool conference. ;)

 

It is as weird to me to vote for an "Old Earth" option as it would be to vote for a "Round Earth" option.

 

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

[Mrs Mungo]

I thought the same thing when I first saw the poll, but I figured it made things easier to keep the phrasing consistent.

 

The intent was more to keep the phrasing...neutral would be the best word.

[Jen in PA]

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

 

:lol:

[BarbecueMom]

Old earth... Not sure beyond that. Though I used to believe that nothing existed and life was some sort of a mirage. Then "The Matrix" came out and confused me back into believing in a reality.

[Parrothead]

nit-pick: creationism is not just a christian phenomenon -- the belief in a YE creation is shared by some fundamentalist muslims as well (esp in Turkey). I don't know if any jewish groups also believe in a YE creation, but all 3 groups share roots.

Yes, I know a Jewish family that believes YE.

[Virg]

This one was easier to answer :001_smile:

[Spy Car]

You've obviously never lived in the South...or attended a homeschool conference. ;)

 

 

Mercifully true :D

 

Unless "Southern" California counts :tongue_smilie:

 

The intent was more to keep the phrasing...neutral would be the best word.

 

And "Old Earth" isn't a loaded expression???!!! :confused:

 

Bill

[Mrs Mungo]

And "Old Earth" isn't a loaded expression???!!! :confused:

 

I am not sure how to make them more neutral and still discuss the religious perspective.

 

There was already a poll on whether you believed the earth was around 4.5 billion years old or around 6,000 years old; people voted almost 2:1 in favor of 4.5 billion years old.

[go_go_gadget]

Old Earth, evolution, possibly designed/directed/conceived-and-then-left-alone by a creator of some sort, which may or may not resemble our idea of what such a concept might be like.

[Parrothead]

 

 

 

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

You gotta love the flat earthers. :D

[Georgiana Daniels]

I'm waiting to see if someone votes Young Earth/no God :001_huh:

[Spy Car]

I am not sure how to make them more neutral and still discuss the religious perspective.

 

There was already a poll on whether you believed the earth was around 4.5 billion years old or around 6,000 years old; people voted almost 2:1 in favor of 4.5 billion years old.

 

Simple. Substitute "Roughly 4.5 Billion year old" for "Old."

 

Then you would have have neutral and descriptively accurate terminology.

 

Bill

[DianeW88]

I am creationist, but I have no idea how old the earth is, nor do I think it has anything at all to do with salvation. I do not believe that the word "day" in the Bible means a literal 24 hour period. I think it's just a handy-dandy word to indicate "a unit of time". Whether that unit is a week, 10,000 years or 10 billion years isn't a biggie to me.

 

And as an LDS person (who's often an outsider in these types of things, because YE vs. OE is not even mentioned in our church), I don't understand why this seems to be so important in certain evangelical denominations. Why does it matter how long it took to create the earth or how it was accomplished? :001_huh: And I'm not being snarky...I sincerely don't get it. Especially in light of the huge kerfluffle that happened with the homeschool conferences this past summer....why is this particular point so heavily debated and so important in certain Christian circles?

[Rivka]

You've obviously never lived in the South...or attended a homeschool conference. ;)

 

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

 

Speaking of which, does anyone know of a curriculum that presents the evidence for and against both sides of this controversy? Or at least one that remains silent on the topic so that parents can present what they believe?

[Spy Car]

Speaking of which, does anyone know of a curriculum that presents the evidence for and against both sides of this controversy? Or at least one that remains silent on the topic so that parents can present what they believe?

 

:lol:

 

Bill

[Bluegoat]

I have never in my life (save on this forum) heard the position of those who accept the scientific consensus that the earth is (roughly) 4.5 billion years old being described as "Old Earth."

 

It is as weird to me to vote for an "Old Earth" option as it would be to vote for a "Round Earth" option.

 

Bill

 

It is weird language to me as well. It is, I think, essentially from the fundamentalist side - anyone who believes in a billions of year old universe believes in an "old Earth" not a young one.

[Bluegoat]

I am creationist, but I have no idea how old the earth is, nor do I think it has anything at all to do with salvation. I do not believe that the word "day" in the Bible means a literal 24 hour period. I think it's just a handy-dandy word to indicate "a unit of time". Whether that unit is a week, 10,000 years or 10 billion years isn't a biggie to me.

 

And as an LDS person (who's often an outsider in these types of things, because YE vs. OE is not even mentioned in our church), I don't understand why this seems to be so important in certain evangelical denominations. Why does it matter how long it took to create the earth or how it was accomplished? :001_huh: And I'm not being snarky...I sincerely don't get it. Especially in light of the huge kerfluffle that happened with the homeschool conferences this past summer....why is this particular point so heavily debated and so important in certain Christian circles?

 

Yes, it is because if you are attached to a literalist view of all Scripture being required for salvation, you can't accept anything other than a view that rejects current scientific thoughts on the matter.

[KrissiK]

I am a Christian. I believe that God completely created the Earth and in a sense, I think it matters what you believe. However, I have not taken a position on YE or OE. First, I admit, I have not studied enough. Secondly, I think there's evidence for both and I don't believe I can dogmatically say, "I believe it is this...." I think I'm about 60% old earth and 40% young earth.

[Truscifi]

OE, evolution, don't know if there is a god or creator, don't particularly care as it does not inform my present actions in any meaningful way. (Though it is interesting and can be fu to debate with someone who won't get their panties in a wad about it.)

 

ETA - I voted other.

[DianeW88]

Yes, it is because if you are attached to a literalist view of all Scripture being required for salvation, you can't accept anything other than a view that rejects current scientific thoughts on the matter.

 

Oh, ok...I've never heard it expressed that way before. So, it is essential within your denomination to believe that every word of the Bible is to be taken literally in order to achieve salvation? Again, not being snarky, I just sincerely want to understand this viewpoint, since people are very stringent about it and I feel quite ignorant on the matter.

[Alenee]

Yes, I wanted to choose two. I believe YE, micro, God, but I also believe it doesn't matter. It's just another tool satan uses to divide. It's quite successful . . .:glare: (and no, I'm not referring to this poll, lol!).

 

See, Mrs. Mungo! This post is exactly why I only gave five options in my poll including an "other" option...as explained in my last post on my poll. :)

 

and to the quote, yes I'm sure Satan does use it to divide but God can also use it to teach and by that I mean, people having a healthy discussion to understand why people think and feel the way they do.

[Bluegoat]

Oh, ok...I've never heard it expressed that way before. So, it is essential within your denomination to believe that every word of the Bible is to be taken literally in order to achieve salvation? Again, not being snarky, I just sincerely want to understand this viewpoint, since people are very stringent about it and I feel quite ignorant on the matter.

 

Oh I don't think you are being snarky. I'm not a Biblical literalist though myself.

 

I'm not sure that all think that literalism is a salvation issue. It often seems to me that they don't consider that there is really any other possibility than a literal reading. Christian fundamentalism really comes out of the modern period, and it actually has a very similar "factual" approach to things as science does science. A statement means what it says and says what it means. That is just the basic understanding of reading anything that is brought to reading Scripture.

[dangermom]

I clicked the Old earth/evolution/there is a creator option. I wouldn't actually call it Old Earth if you asked me because that seems to me to bring up a whole lot of political creationism stuff I don't know anything about, but I think the earth is as old as the evidence says it is. I have no issue with evolution, and I believe in God and that he created the earth. I'm LDS and we don't really care that much about the whole creationism/evolution thing; we don't think of it as an issue that has much to do with salvation.

[MeaganS]

I'm LDS and we don't really care that much about the whole creationism/evolution thing; we don't think of it as an issue that has much to do with salvation.

:iagree:

 

Although, you might have a way to go to convince that lady in my Relief Society a few weeks ago. Apparently she was "shocked" BYU teaches evolution? And thought it was appropriate to bring up in a lesson that had nothing to do with it? :lol:

[HRAAB]

Old earth, evolution, God if I have to answer.

 

I really don't worry about it. Whatever, old earth, young earth, evolution, no evolution. It's an awesome world, awesome creation, and an awesome God. However God did it is just fine with me. The only non-negotiable being God.

[DianeW88]

:iagree:

 

Although, you might have a way to go to convince that lady in my Relief Society a few weeks ago. Apparently she was "shocked" BYU teaches evolution? And thought it was appropriate to bring up in a lesson that had nothing to do with it? :lol:

 

Well, there is always one. :glare: At least she didn't bring it up in Sacrament meeting. A sweet sister informed us all last Fast Sunday that anyone who drinks Diet Coke or even darkens the door of a Starbucks (even if it is only for the key lime cake or a hot chocolate), won't make it into the Celestial Kingdom. Guess that leaves my bishop, stake president and half the state of Utah out. :lol:

[DianeW88]

Oh I don't think you are being snarky. I'm not a Biblical literalist though myself.

 

I'm not sure that all think that literalism is a salvation issue. It often seems to me that they don't consider that there is really any other possibility than a literal reading. Christian fundamentalism really comes out of the modern period, and it actually has a very similar "factual" approach to things as science does science. A statement means what it says and says what it means. That is just the basic understanding of reading anything that is brought to reading Scripture.

 

Ok, well that does help me to understand the level of passion people feel about it then. Thanks! :)