ps eye opener...I had no idea

[Bensmom]

I have a good friend who teaches third grade in public school. My son is now a third grader and I thought it would be nice to ask what she is working on in her classroom and see how that compares to what we do to make sure I am covering all the bases. Last night she brought over her lesson plans and books for me to peruse over the weekend. Ummmm, things have changed a lot since I was in the ps classroom! When I was in third grade, we spent the morning in art, science, music, and gym (about 50 min. each with a dedicated teacher for each subject). The afternoon was for homeroom which covered spelling, reading, math, and social studies. My friend's third grade class has a thirty minute period once a week where they will do either social studies or science, alternating each week. That is one hour of each a month! They have math each morning from 8:25-10:20 and spend all afternoon on language arts (journaling, reading, spelling, vocabulary, and grammar). Music, art, and gym occur once a week with a dedicated teacher (as opposed to homeroom teacher). I had no idea.

 

Our church is working to start an after school tutoring program for 4-5th graders to have additional math help. Several other churches in our community are already sponsoring an elementary school. I can't imagine these children doing two hours of math in class every day and still needing assistance, but they say that test scores are at an all time low.:sad:

 

I say all of this not to trash our local schools. I know many ps teachers who are wonderful people and care about their students. I am just in shock and am very concerned for America's future now knowing more about the education of a small, middle class community.:confused:

[NanceXToo]

Because standardized tests focus on math and language arts, not social studies and science.

 

If you want to make sure you're covering all the bases, don't look to public schools. They're only covering standardized testing for the most part. Just keep doing what you're doing and following your kid's interests as much as possible. I'm sure you are already providing a well rounded education, something even the best public school teachers are no longer permitted to do. Sad.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I had a similar experience last year. In one of the highest-testing school systems around here, third graders get 15 minutes of science and thirty minutes of social studies per week (both on Fridays). They alternate art and music outside the classroom, one hour per week.

 

And that's a 'good' school.

 

My little boy gets science, history, art, and music every single day, and he still has time to be ahead of grade level in math and English. Homeschooling is such a privilege!

[BatmansWife]

What I'm most amazed at is that you can remember this:

 

When I was in third grade, we spent the morning in art, science, music, and gym (about 50 min. each with a dedicated teacher for each subject). The afternoon was for homeroom which covered spelling, reading, math, and social studies.

 

:D

 

That was nice of her to lend you her lesson plans and books for the weekend. Did she get to look overy your lesson plans and books to compare?? I just wonder what she would think.....hopefully she'd be impressed and jealous. :lol:

[Annie G]

They spend nearly two hours a day on math? That's not typical of schools where I live.

[regentrude]

What you describe is not typical for public elementary schools.

Our local elementary ps teaches science and social studies daily (my children attended the school)

[elfgivas]

What you describe is not typical for public elementary schools.

Our local elementary ps teaches science and social studies daily (my children attended the school)

 

i'm puzzled (genuinely).

 

it sounds as if you are saying your one elementary school is typical,

and op's one elementary school is atypical.

 

but they are each just one.....'

 

my hunch is that lower scoring schools would put more emphasis on math and language arts, whereas higher scoring schools might stick with a more traditional approach.... but that's all it is, a hunch.

 

http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/features/affirmingmozart09202000.html

 

is a link to a study on how studying the arts may effect other academic areas (math, language arts, etc). they are careful not to draw causal relationships, but do observe that students who study the arts generally have higher test scores.

 

its fascinating stuff!

ann

[Perry]

Our local elementary schools spend an outrageous amount of time on math. The curriculum stinks. They could get it done in half the time with better results if they'd use a decent curriculum.

 

PS math is the main reason we started homeschooling.

[elfgivas]

i'm intrigued....

 

i found this at this website

http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com/2011/05/are-schools-teaching-too-much-math-and.html

 

Here's what the Center for Education Policy said a few years ago:

“In 2005-06, as shown in table 4-C, our survey found that 71% of districts reported reducing instructional time in elementary schools for one or more subjects in order to make more time for reading and/or math. On average, districts in our survey spent about an hour and a half on reading and a little over an hour on math. Urban districts, however, spent significantly more time on reading than suburban and rural districts: 113 minutes or almost two hours†(p. 95).

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

i'm intrigued....

 

i found this at this website

http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com/2011/05/are-schools-teaching-too-much-math-and.html

 

Here's what the Center for Education Policy said a few years ago:

“In 2005-06, as shown in table 4-C, our survey found that 71% of districts reported reducing instructional time in elementary schools for one or more subjects in order to make more time for reading and/or math. On average, districts in our survey spent about an hour and a half on reading and a little over an hour on math. Urban districts, however, spent significantly more time on reading than suburban and rural districts: 113 minutes or almost two hours†(p. 95).

 

 

 

Hmmm. 71% is less typical? I like studies. They give some information to compare anecdotal information against.

[KJB]

What you describe does not describe the whole picture.

 

While they may spend a lot of time on subjects like math or language arts, they integrate. A lot. In fact, the whole drive in modern teacher education programs is for new teachers to understand *how* to integrate.

 

So while they may teach two hour "Language Arts" lessons, they are reading and analyzing non-fiction in the social sciences. And while they may spend a lot of time on "Math", they often mix in Science and other subjects.

 

How well they integrate depends on the classroom, but I respect the philosophy and effort good teachers expend to make it happen.

 

Somewhere around 5th grade and up teachers begin to specialize and subjects become clearly segregated again.

Edited November 12, 2011 by KJB

[wapiti]

Our local elementary schools spend an outrageous amount of time on math. The curriculum stinks. They could get it done in half the time with better results if they'd use a decent curriculum.

 

PS math is the main reason we started homeschooling.

 

This, exactly. I wouldn't mind them spending lots of time on math if the kids were actually learning something.

 

For us, for elementary-age, math and LA have a clear priority over history and science to the extent that there is a time conflict (which there shouldn't be). Math is the main reason I started hs-ing my oldest as well, and it will be the reason I end up pulling the other ones out. (I'm currently in freak-out mode over facing the fact that I may end up hs-ing all my kids for middle school because I can't find a single middle school, public or private, to fit my kids' needs, particularly for math :glare:. We live in an area with a lot of school choice, but too often the choices are all the same.)

[momma2three]

That sums up what my school days were like in 3rd. It was mostly ELA and about an hour per day of math. We had art, music, and gym once per week each (I think 30 minutes for each). We didn't do any social studies or science until 4th and even then it was very minimal.

 

That's my memory, too. I remember we started switching teachers for social studies and science in 4th grade, but before that it was language arts and math pretty much all day, except for one period a day when we either had gym (2x per week), art, music, or health. I don't know how long those periods were, but I would be really surprised if they were more than 40 minutes.

 

My school did level tracking starting in kindergarten, so language arts took most of the day because the teacher would work with each reading group one at a time. The other two groups would sit at our desks and do independent work during that time.

 

As someone else said, this isn't the whole picture: science and social studies were integrated into language arts. I remember in 3rd grade having to do a book report on a historical figure, for example. Our readers covered both fiction and non-fiction.

[flyingiguana]

Our local elementary schools spend an outrageous amount of time on math. The curriculum stinks. They could get it done in half the time with better results if they'd use a decent curriculum.

 

PS math is the main reason we started homeschooling.

 

To this day, my college age daughter thanks me for pulling her out of elementary school. She could NOT understand the math at school. Although she understood it fine at home.

 

She's now majoring in physics.

[Element]

Our local elementary schools spend an outrageous amount of time on math. The curriculum stinks. They could get it done in half the time with better results if they'd use a decent curriculum.

 

PS math is the main reason we started homeschooling.

 

That is our situation too. Our district doesn't use a pre-packaged curriculum for math or language arts (or district is only PreK-8, I should specify.) They have a set of "I Can Do It"'s for both math and language arts and they just encourage the teacher to use whatever worksheets or other materials they can get their hands on. Sure, it sounds great: Teachers have the freedom to choose how to teach the material. However, what you end up with is a lottery. My ds had a wonderful language arts teacher in 1st, and lousy language arts teachers in K and 2. They didn't do subtraction until 2nd (The "I Can Do It's" are based around the old Illinois Learning Standards, not the Common Core). The third grade class he would have been in actually has math textbooks (Harcourt) but the teacher told me they don't use them. The fifth grade class my neighbor is in uses Everyday Math... it's a mess. It's just all over the place. Students basically get taught a different math method every year.

 

So, yes, my dd (in 1st grade ps) does "math" everyday for 90-120 minutes, but it is all just enchantedlearning worksheet printouts. IMHO, you can spend two hours a day on math but it's pretty much worthless if you don't have an instruction plan.

 

I don't want to ps bash- I really don't- but my district is making it very hard for me to avoid doing so.

[scrapbookbuzz]

There is a theory that exposure to all kinds of music, but especially classical and baroque, really help with math skills and spatial reasoning. Perhaps the lack of exposure on a regular basis is what is contributing to those low math scores?

 

Anyway, I knew that about public schools. The seemingly "unnecessary" classes/programs are the ones to be cut first. And, as a previous poster stated, standardized tests cater to math and language arts. Many, many teachers I know of are told to "teach to the test".

[Perry]

There is a theory that exposure to all kinds of music, but especially classical and baroque, really help with math skills and spatial reasoning. Perhaps the lack of exposure on a regular basis is what is contributing to those low math scores?

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with the kids' brains. Once they start afterschooling or homeschooling, go to Kumon, receive tutoring, etc. they do just fine.

 

Of course there are individual kids who will struggle no matter what. But in general, the problem is the curriculum.

[Renee in NC]

What you describe is not typical for public elementary schools.

Our local elementary ps teaches science and social studies daily (my children attended the school)

 

:iagree:

 

It depends on the district. The school my dc went to in FL had science and social studies daily. They also had either art, music, or PE daily - they would spend a week going to art daily, then the next week was music, then PE, etc. They had a 30 minute recess everyday after lunch.

[NicAnn]

What you describe is not typical for public elementary schools.

Our local elementary ps teaches science and social studies daily (my children attended the school)

 

It's typical for my area, unfortunately. When my brother was in Elementary last year in another state, it was there too. I think it's spreading and becoming the norm. Science is 2x a week, and "electives" (music, gym, art) rotate every Friday...so they get each on only once a month.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

In my area, it certainly is typical. I have heard of better schools in other states, for sure, but our local schools don't have much time for history, science, music, or art.

[ondreeuh]

Well, every school can do it differently.

 

My kids' elementary school had a 90-minute block each morning for language arts. This included reading groups, spelling, writing, read alouds, etc. They switched activities often enough that the kids stayed engaged. Math was next, and I believe it was for about an hour. The kids didn't get much math homework. After lunch and recess, they did a "special" - library, computers, PE, or music, rotating through them. The rest of the afternoon was spent on either science or social studies. Their school seemed to do more SS, and they did lots of hands-on activities.

 

Our current school has a short day (5.5 hours). Language arts is the first 90 minutes. For the primary kids, grammar is done via Daily Language Review on the whiteboard with the whole (multigrade) class. Then they split up into reading groups and spend at least an hour discussing their literature and doing activities about literary elements. They do spelling out of individual workbooks, and the writing instruction is differentiated for the differing abilities. Then they do about 90 minutes of math. Sometimes they do activities (and take the lesson home for homework), and sometimes they use classtime for working on their lesson. Then they break for an hour's lunch - the kids walk home so they get some exercise. After lunch, they have a 90 minute block for either social studies or science. They rotate between complete units, and do two units of science for every unit of social studies because there are more science standards than SS ones. They do more writing instruction and write about their science or SS. After SS/Sci, they have 30 minutes of PE every day, and after that they have a flex time that is spent on individual projects, typing, and individualized instruction. They always have either assigned literature or assigned "free reading" for homework. I do extra spelling, writing, and math with my son.

[The Governess]

While reading this, I was thinking of how far along we would be in our math curriculum if I had the time to spend two hours every day on math!

[bettyandbob]

Every district is different. In my state there is standardized testing in math, reading, writing, social studies and science. At the elementary where my youngest ds attends (he's in a sp ed program, but participates in a regular class) reading, math, writing, social studies and science occur everyday. There is an hour block every day for PE (2x/wk), art (1x/wk), music (2x/wk). There is also a 1 hour library block weekly--the librarian reads to the class or has some lesson and then there is time to explore and check 1 or 2 books (older grades get 2)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Here's what I want to know:

 

When I look at Indiana's Academic Standards for third grade, I see this.

 

THE NATURE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY GRADE 3

 

Students, working collaboratively, carry out investigations. They question, observe, and make accurate

measurements. Students increase their use of tools, record data in journals, and communicate results

through chart, graph, written, and verbal forms.

The Scientific View of the World

3.1.1 Recognize and explain that when a scientific investigation is repeated, a similar result is expected.

Scientific Inquiry

3.1.2 Participate in different types of guided scientific investigations, such as observing objects and events

and collecting specimens for analysis.

3.1.3 Keep and report records of investigations and observations* using tools, such as journals, charts,

graphs, and computers.

3.1.4 Discuss the results of investigations and consider the explanations of others.

* observation: gaining information through the use of one or more of the senses, such as sight, smell, etc.

The Scientific Enterprise

3.1.5 Demonstrate the ability to work cooperatively while respecting the ideas of others and communicating

one’s own conclusions about findings.

Technology and Science

3.1.6 Give examples of how tools, such as automobiles, computers, and electric motors, have affected the

way we live.

3.1.7 Recognize that and explain how an invention can be used in different ways, such as a radio being used

to get information and for entertainment.

3.1.8 Describe how discarded products contribute to the problem of waste disposal and that recycling can

help solve this problem.

Standard 2

Scientific Thinking

Students use a variety of skills and techniques when attempting to answer questions and solve problems.

They describe their observations accurately and clearly, using numbers, words, and sketches, and are able

to communicate their thinking to others.

Computation and Estimation

3.2.1 Add and subtract whole numbers* mentally, on paper, and with a calculator.

* whole number: 0, 1, 2, 3, etc.

Manipulation and Observation

3.2.2 Measure and mix dry and liquid materials in prescribed amounts, following reasonable safety

precautions.

3.2.3 Keep a notebook that describes observations and is understandable weeks or months later.

3.2.4 Appropriately use simple tools, such as clamps, rulers, scissors, hand lenses, and other technology,

such as calculators and computers, to help solve problems.

3.2.5 Construct something used for performing a task out of paper, cardboard, wood, plastic, metal,

or existing objects.

Communication Skills

3.2.6 Make sketches and write descriptions to aid in explaining procedures or ideas.

Critical Response Skills

3.2.7 Ask “How do you know?†in appropriate situations and attempt reasonable answers when others

ask the same question.

Standard 3

The Physical Setting

Students observe changes of Earth and the sky. They continue to explore the concepts of energy*

and motion*.

The Universe

3.3.1 Observe and describe the apparent motion of the sun and moon over a time span of one day.

3.3.2 Observe and describe that there are more stars in the sky than anyone can easily count,

but they are not scattered evenly.

3.3.3 Observe and describe that the sun can be seen only in the daytime.

3.3.4 Observe and describe that the moon looks a little different every day, but looks the same

again about every four weeks.

* energy: what is needed to make things move

* motion: the change in position of an object in a certain amount of time

Earth and the Processes That Shape It

3.3.5 Give examples of how change, such as weather patterns, is a continual process occurring on Earth.

3.3.6 Describe ways human beings protect themselves from adverse weather conditions.

3.3.7 Identify and explain some effects human activities have on weather.

Matter* and Energy

3.3.8 Investigate and describe how moving air and water can be used to run machines like windmills

and waterwheels.

* matter: anything that has mass* and takes up space

* mass: a measure of how much matter is in an object

Forces of Nature

3.3.9 Demonstrate that things that make sound do so by vibrating, such as vocal cords and musical

instruments.

Standard 4

The Living Environment

Students learn about an increasing variety of organisms. They use appropriate tools and identify similarities

and differences among them. Students explore how organisms satisfy their needs in typical environments.

Diversity of Life

3.4.1 Demonstrate that a great variety of living things can be sorted into groups in many ways using various

features, such as how they look, where they live, and how they act, to decide which things belong to

which group.

3.4.2 Explain that features used for grouping depend on the purpose of the grouping.

3.4.3 Observe that and describe how offspring are very much, but not exactly, like their parents

and like one another.

The Living Environment (continued)

Interdependence of Life and Evolution

3.4.4 Describe that almost all kinds of animals’ food can be traced back to plants.

3.4.5 Give examples of some kinds of organisms that have completely disappeared and explain

how these organisms were similar to some organisms living today.

Human Identity

3.4.6 Explain that people need water, food, air, waste removal, and a particular range of temperatures,

just as other animals do.

3.4.7 Explain that eating a variety of healthful foods and getting enough exercise and rest help people

stay healthy.

3.4.8 Explain that some things people take into their bodies from the environment can hurt them

and give examples of such things.

3.4.9 Explain that some diseases are caused by germs and some are not. Note that diseases caused

by germs may be spread to other people. Also understand that washing hands with soap and water

reduces the number of germs that can get into the body or that can be passed on to other people.

Standard 5

The Mathematical World

Students apply mathematics in scientific contexts. Students make more precise and varied measurements

when gathering data. Based upon collected data, they pose questions and solve problems. Students use

numbers to record data and construct graphs and tables to communicate their findings.

Numbers

3.5.1 Select and use appropriate measuring units, such as centimeters (cm) and meters (m), grams (g)

and kilograms (kg), and degrees Celsius (°C).

3.5.2 Observe that and describe how some measurements are likely to be slightly different, even if what

is being measured stays the same.

Shapes and Symbolic Relationships

3.5.3 Construct tables and graphs to show how values of one quantity are related to values of another.

3.5.4 Illustrate that if 0 and 1 are located on a line, any other number can be depicted as a position

on the line.

Reasoning and Uncertainty

3.5.5 Explain that one way to make sense of something is to think of how it relates to something

more familiar.

Standard 6

Common Themes

Students work with an increasing variety of systems and begin to modify parts in systems and models

and notice the changes that result. They question why change occurs.

Systems

3.6.1 Investigate how and describe that when parts are put together, they can do things that they could

not do by themselves.

3.6.2 Investigate how and describe that something may not work if some of its parts are missing.

Models and Scale

3.6.3 Explain how a model of something is different from the real thing but can be used to learn something

about the real thing.

Constancy and Change

3.6.4 Take, record, and display counts and simple measurements of things over time, such as plant

or student growth.

3.6.5 Observe that and describe how some changes are very slow and some are very fast and that

some of these changes may be hard to see and/or record.

 

**********************************************************

Tibbie Dunbar's question of the day: How exactly do they do this in 15 minutes per week?

 

I would really, really love to link you all to the homepages of local third grade teachers. They clearly state that science is scheduled for 15 to 20 minutes every Friday. I won't link them, because then I'll basically be posting where I live, but I've seen this for myself!

 

Could a PP be on the right track? Are they using Science and History as study topics for their overarching goals in Math and English? Are the other subjects tucked into English? If so, why call it just English?

[snowbeltmom]

How many hours a day did you attend? Did you have a recess or two in addition to lunch?

As a kid, my ps had recess in the morning, at lunch, and again in the afternoon. Our day began at 9:00 a.m. and ended at 3:30 p.m.

In contrast, my dd's first grade p.s. had 30 minutes for both lunch and recess combined. The day began at 8:15 a.m. and ended at 3:15. They had science once a week. The horrid math program helped to give me the courage to begin homeschooling...I figured I couldn't possibly do worse than what the ps was doing.:D

[Jean in Newcastle]

Here's what I want to know:

 

When I look at Indiana's Academic Standards for third grade, I see this.

 

THE NATURE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY GRADE 3

 

Students, working collaboratively, carry out investigations. They question, observe, and make accurate

measurements. Students increase their use of tools, record data in journals, and communicate results

through chart, graph, written, and verbal forms.

The Scientific View of the World

3.1.1 Recognize and explain that when a scientific investigation is repeated, a similar result is expected.

Scientific Inquiry

3.1.2 Participate in different types of guided scientific investigations, such as observing objects and events

and collecting specimens for analysis.

3.1.3 Keep and report records of investigations and observations* using tools, such as journals, charts,

graphs, and computers.

3.1.4 Discuss the results of investigations and consider the explanations of others.

* observation: gaining information through the use of one or more of the senses, such as sight, smell, etc.

The Scientific Enterprise

3.1.5 Demonstrate the ability to work cooperatively while respecting the ideas of others and communicating

one’s own conclusions about findings.

Technology and Science

3.1.6 Give examples of how tools, such as automobiles, computers, and electric motors, have affected the

way we live.

3.1.7 Recognize that and explain how an invention can be used in different ways, such as a radio being used

to get information and for entertainment.

3.1.8 Describe how discarded products contribute to the problem of waste disposal and that recycling can

help solve this problem.

Standard 2

Scientific Thinking

Students use a variety of skills and techniques when attempting to answer questions and solve problems.

They describe their observations accurately and clearly, using numbers, words, and sketches, and are able

to communicate their thinking to others.

Computation and Estimation

3.2.1 Add and subtract whole numbers* mentally, on paper, and with a calculator.

* whole number: 0, 1, 2, 3, etc.

Manipulation and Observation

3.2.2 Measure and mix dry and liquid materials in prescribed amounts, following reasonable safety

precautions.

3.2.3 Keep a notebook that describes observations and is understandable weeks or months later.

3.2.4 Appropriately use simple tools, such as clamps, rulers, scissors, hand lenses, and other technology,

such as calculators and computers, to help solve problems.

3.2.5 Construct something used for performing a task out of paper, cardboard, wood, plastic, metal,

or existing objects.

Communication Skills

3.2.6 Make sketches and write descriptions to aid in explaining procedures or ideas.

Critical Response Skills

3.2.7 Ask “How do you know?” in appropriate situations and attempt reasonable answers when others

ask the same question.

Standard 3

The Physical Setting

Students observe changes of Earth and the sky. They continue to explore the concepts of energy*

and motion*.

The Universe

3.3.1 Observe and describe the apparent motion of the sun and moon over a time span of one day.

3.3.2 Observe and describe that there are more stars in the sky than anyone can easily count,

but they are not scattered evenly.

3.3.3 Observe and describe that the sun can be seen only in the daytime.

3.3.4 Observe and describe that the moon looks a little different every day, but looks the same

again about every four weeks.

* energy: what is needed to make things move

* motion: the change in position of an object in a certain amount of time

Earth and the Processes That Shape It

3.3.5 Give examples of how change, such as weather patterns, is a continual process occurring on Earth.

3.3.6 Describe ways human beings protect themselves from adverse weather conditions.

3.3.7 Identify and explain some effects human activities have on weather.

Matter* and Energy

3.3.8 Investigate and describe how moving air and water can be used to run machines like windmills

and waterwheels.

* matter: anything that has mass* and takes up space

* mass: a measure of how much matter is in an object

Forces of Nature

3.3.9 Demonstrate that things that make sound do so by vibrating, such as vocal cords and musical

instruments.

Standard 4

The Living Environment

Students learn about an increasing variety of organisms. They use appropriate tools and identify similarities

and differences among them. Students explore how organisms satisfy their needs in typical environments.

Diversity of Life

3.4.1 Demonstrate that a great variety of living things can be sorted into groups in many ways using various

features, such as how they look, where they live, and how they act, to decide which things belong to

which group.

3.4.2 Explain that features used for grouping depend on the purpose of the grouping.

3.4.3 Observe that and describe how offspring are very much, but not exactly, like their parents

and like one another.

The Living Environment (continued)

Interdependence of Life and Evolution

3.4.4 Describe that almost all kinds of animals’ food can be traced back to plants.

3.4.5 Give examples of some kinds of organisms that have completely disappeared and explain

how these organisms were similar to some organisms living today.

Human Identity

3.4.6 Explain that people need water, food, air, waste removal, and a particular range of temperatures,

just as other animals do.

3.4.7 Explain that eating a variety of healthful foods and getting enough exercise and rest help people

stay healthy.

3.4.8 Explain that some things people take into their bodies from the environment can hurt them

and give examples of such things.

3.4.9 Explain that some diseases are caused by germs and some are not. Note that diseases caused

by germs may be spread to other people. Also understand that washing hands with soap and water

reduces the number of germs that can get into the body or that can be passed on to other people.

Standard 5

The Mathematical World

Students apply mathematics in scientific contexts. Students make more precise and varied measurements

when gathering data. Based upon collected data, they pose questions and solve problems. Students use

numbers to record data and construct graphs and tables to communicate their findings.

Numbers

3.5.1 Select and use appropriate measuring units, such as centimeters (cm) and meters (m), grams (g)

and kilograms (kg), and degrees Celsius (°C).

3.5.2 Observe that and describe how some measurements are likely to be slightly different, even if what

is being measured stays the same.

Shapes and Symbolic Relationships

3.5.3 Construct tables and graphs to show how values of one quantity are related to values of another.

3.5.4 Illustrate that if 0 and 1 are located on a line, any other number can be depicted as a position

on the line.

Reasoning and Uncertainty

3.5.5 Explain that one way to make sense of something is to think of how it relates to something

more familiar.

Standard 6

Common Themes

Students work with an increasing variety of systems and begin to modify parts in systems and models

and notice the changes that result. They question why change occurs.

Systems

3.6.1 Investigate how and describe that when parts are put together, they can do things that they could

not do by themselves.

3.6.2 Investigate how and describe that something may not work if some of its parts are missing.

Models and Scale

3.6.3 Explain how a model of something is different from the real thing but can be used to learn something

about the real thing.

Constancy and Change

3.6.4 Take, record, and display counts and simple measurements of things over time, such as plant

or student growth.

3.6.5 Observe that and describe how some changes are very slow and some are very fast and that

some of these changes may be hard to see and/or record.

 

**********************************************************

Tibbie Dunbar's question of the day: How exactly do they do this in 15 minutes per week?

 

I would really, really love to link you all to the homepages of local third grade teachers. They clearly state that science is scheduled for 15 to 20 minutes every Friday. I won't link them, because then I'll basically be posting where I live, but I've seen this for myself!

 

Could a PP be on the right track? Are they using Science and History as study topics for their overarching goals in Math and English? Are the other subjects tucked into English? If so, why call it just English?

 

It's dependent on what they count as applying toward these objectives. We have a children's museum near us that has little signs pointing out the state objectives met by each of the interactive exhibits. By floating little balls down a "stream" and damming certain areas, you meet these standards: Science 1.1.2 Motion of Objects; 1.1.4 Forms of Energy; 1.2.1 Structure of Physical Earth/Space & Living Systems; 1.2.2 Energy Transfer & Transformations; 2.1.2 Planning and Conducting Safe Investigations; 3.1.2 Designing and Testing Solutions;1.3.2 Forces to Explain Motion

 

It doesn't matter that the kids are left with no actual guidance for actually coming to any workable scientific conclusions. They've met the state standards just by taking the kids there for a field trip.

[Leav97]

The schedules for our local school are on-line. This a typical 2nd grade class schedule"

 

55 min math

15 break

1:35 reading

45 min Lunch and Recess

1:05 Language Arts

10 min break

30 Science or History

30 Art, Music or PE

[Rhonda in TX]

I overheard a 4th grade teacher say that her students had been begging for social studies and science. This was February and they hadn't done ANY all year. She said she was taking pity on them and doing a week of social studies and a week of science. And yes, it was because of standardized testing. They don't test social studies or science in 4th grade. (It wasn't the teacher's fault. She was doing the best she could with what was required of her.)

[Pamela H in Texas]

How well they integrate depends on the classroom

Yes. In our public schools, ELA and Math are THE subjects. The kids go to a special daily, each day a different one. PE is daily for the youngest children. Recess is 15minutes once a day. That test makes it where preK and Kindy kids are evaluated multiple times throughout the school year, pushed in reading and math, etc. YUCK. But our classroom teacher really does integrate subjects very well. This is extra good for my stbad because we are doing much higher level lang arts and math at home. She is definitely still learning in that classroom though she is over a year ahead of her classmates academically. And she is learning things that I probably wouldn't teach. Of course, she'd learn DIFFERENT things here. We'd do a full WTM curriculum if she were home. Of course, "full WTM" really starts in first grade.

 

Anyway, just saying I'm happy with this particular teacher. Unfortunately, my neighbor's boy is in the room across the hall and the story isn't the same though the team supposedly does the same thing in each classroom. I think the real issue there is that it is the first year teaching this young of student so she may come around as she figures it out. But obviously I'm glad MY kid isn't in her classroom. I will be ASKING if all my littles can go through our current teacher's classroom. My main reason is because she really does BELIEVE in being respectful of different beliefs. Cultural diversity wasn't just a class she took!

[Bensmom]

What I'm most amazed at is that you can remember this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not so ancient that I can't remember third grade. (The fact that I can't remember last week is irrelative:tongue_smilie:) I only remember because it was a big deal to be old enough to start "platooning." And my science teacher was my one of my favorite teachers. I can't remember recess though. I'm not sure how many we had or how long they were...I'm thinking maybe two recesses.

[mycalling]

I don't know about 3rd grade but here in 4th they did a unit on a Science topic twice during the year and Social Studies was entirely homework, which rarely occurred, and answers to questions in the worktext were never checked.

 

They did one added subject per day: Music, Art, Library, Computer Lab, and one other I can't remember. Each for one hour.

 

2/3s of the school failed to pass the end-of-grade (material from the grade below theirs) standardized testing...but don't worry, they were then tutored mainly by fellow students and received up to 2 more attempts.:001_huh:

[gardenmom5]

(snip). I can't imagine these children doing two hours of math in class every day and still needing assistance, but they say that test scores are at an all time low.:sad:

I'm in a good district. when dd's middle school math teacher said "we don't care if they get the answer correct or not . . . " a friends husband responded - I'm an engineer, if the math is wrong, the plane will crash.

 

so, i'm in a good district, and the math curriculum positively sucks. it's a curriculum some parents have sued their school district for using. (one math prof father was horrified to find out what his son had been being taught in "math".)

[MrsMe]

Our local elementary schools spend an outrageous amount of time on math. The curriculum stinks. They could get it done in half the time with better results if they'd use a decent curriculum.

 

PS math is the main reason we started homeschooling.

 

That's because it's too long. Kid's "check out" after about 45 min. Someone needs to tell these people, longer isn't better.

 

My neighbor's 10 yr old dd brought home fraction homework. It was a page FULL of fractions. They went over it in class, but the sheet was given for homework, reducing, making equal fractions. 12pt type...full page...probably 8-10 problems across. She said her dd didn't understand how to do them. (neither did her mom), but the dd wasn't allowed to take home the book where it showed directions. So I suppose if you're the one who gets it instantly in class, then remembers it that night, you win. If not, you're screwed. That mom asked me where to get info on fractions.

Edited November 12, 2011 by alilac

[Farrar]

I tutor afterschool sometimes at a free tutoring center where kids from different schools come. It's an urban area so there are lots of different schools - charters, ps schools you choose, ps schools you get stuck with... all within walking distance so the kids all come. Here's what I've learned. THERE IS NO NORMAL ANYMORE. From one time to the next, I had second graders at different schools. Both were working on math. One had a huge math homework packet for the whole week with elapsed time problems, three-digit addition, and other stuff that I think of as being second grade math, but maybe on the slightly higher end of things (as in, second half of the year stuff). It was all pretty random too - clearly a very spiral curriculum. The other kid had a single, tiny sheet with greater than less than problems that only went up to the number 10. No, really.

[Perry]

That's because it's too long. Kid's "check out" after about 45 min. Someone needs to tell these people, longer isn't better.

If they are using "reform" math curricula, it would still suck even if they only did it for 45 minutes.

 

By Paul Clopton

 

Fuzzy Math refers to the many newer mathematics programs that reflect current fads in mathematics education and are generally inadequate for effective learning. The word "fuzzy" connotes "warm and fuzzy" or "fuzzy" thinking, and does not refer to advanced topics like fuzzy logic.

Fuzzy Math programs emphasize process over content and even correct answers, and are deficient in mathematical depth and breadth. Fuzzy Math takes many forms, but here are some of the more common varieties:

 

 

• No textbook - Publishers are selling instructional materials including overheads, software, dice, spinners, and building blocks instead of textbooks, which have clear explanations, worked-out examples, and practice problems.

• MTV - Characterized by lots of color and pictures that often have no relationship to mathematics and do not contribute to learning, parents are right to worry that students cannot hear the mathematics amid all of the noise.

• PC - These math programs often include politically correct lessons, such as writing essays about how to save trees or whales. Grades may be based on political correctness, not math skills and knowledge.

• Discover-It-Yourself - Based on the notion that children learn what they discover on their own, this approach avoids giving direct instruction to students. Learning takes longer this way, so less material is covered, and great demands are placed on teachers and their mathematical knowledge.

• Guesswork - Many of these programs promote guessing (rather than knowing) and devote considerable time to this process. Students are encouraged to work on problems they have no idea how to solve and are discouraged from practicing methods that lead to mastery.

• Anti-Algorithm - Textbooks promoting this method may discuss many ways to multiply but fail to cover the traditional method. They often encourage the use of calculators and pay little attention to manual computation.

• Project and Investigation - Students spend a great deal of time addressing non-mathematical aspects of working on projects. A group of four students may spend a week on a project that actually requires just one student to solve a few simple problems.

• Group Learning and Group Testing - In groups, the faster students often do the work and the slower ones go along for the ride. Group learning and group testing help to equalize grades and enable failing students to pass their classes anyway.

• Integrated Content — Some argue that mathematical subjects, such as algebra and geometry, should not be taught in isolation, but should be integrated with other subjects. In practice, the mathematical development becomes so mixed up that it is impossible to determine what children should be learning at any given time. Accountability becomes impractical, and achievement suffers.

• Write About It - Based on the assumption that students should be able to explain their math, precious time is spent writing essays with very little math content. In some cases, most of the math involves figuring out margins and spacing on the word processor.

 

If fuzzy math has invaded your world, first determine what your children should be learning. See the grade level standards for math in California or visit www.mathematicallycorrect.com on the internet. Next, look for less fuzzy materials your children can use both at home and at school to meet those goals. Stay involved with your children's math and monitor their progress toward the goal for each grade level. This is no easy task, but it is the only way to ensure real success.

 

Tons of information out there about fuzzy math.

NYC HOLD

How Not to Teach Math

Illinois Loop

[eternalknot]

My nephews attend the school my kids would attend, if I enrolled them. For the past 20 years, our school district has always been ranked in the top five in the state, most typically it fluctuates between positions two and three; it's the type of community people seek out, and pay a premium to live in.

 

In elementary school, social studies and science are optional, so experiences will vary from school to school and even from year to year. These classes are run strictly on a parent volunteer basis. (As a homeschooler this doesn't bother me, but I know parents who prefer these classes were taught by "real" teachers.) By middle school they're cramming to make up for lost time. My nephews are all in the accelerated academic program, and they go from 0 to 60 in the first semester; basics that they should have been given a basic familiarity with in elementary school up through more grade-appropriate studies. It's overwhelming for them. Not just for my nephews, it's a common complain amongst caregivers that first year of middle school. They get it, though. They get caught up and their enthusiasm seems high. That's to say, it hasn't proven to be any huge disadvantage in our school district, anyhow.

 

That said, we do a very informal social studies and science at our homeschool as well. My philosophy has nothing to do with testing, obviously!, and while testing is understandably the popular scapegoat for lack of both subjects in public schools ... maybe there's more to it, in some cases.

[creekland]

 

• Discover-It-Yourself - Based on the notion that children learn what they discover on their own, this approach avoids giving direct instruction to students. Learning takes longer this way, so less material is covered, and great demands are placed on teachers and their mathematical knowledge.
  
• Guesswork - Many of these programs promote guessing (rather than knowing) and devote considerable time to this process. Students are encouraged to work on problems they have no idea how to solve and are discouraged from practicing methods that lead to mastery.
  
• Anti-Algorithm - Textbooks promoting this method may discuss many ways to multiply but fail to cover the traditional method. They often encourage the use of calculators and pay little attention to manual computation.
  
• Group Learning and Group Testing - In groups, the faster students often do the work and the slower ones go along for the ride. Group learning and group testing help to equalize grades and enable failing students to pass their classes anyway.

I have no connection any longer with our elementary school, so can't tell you what is going on there, but our ps in general uses this type of math all the way through high school. The parts of the math I REALLY dislike I quoted above.

 

 

Discover it yourself is horrible, because most kids don't start off discovering it correctly. The brain learns sequentially with the first neuron being the most important. If that neuron heads in the wrong direction it takes a ton of other neurons to redirect it. The later neurons are more likely to get hazy with non-use, so, days, weeks, or years later, the student remembers doing something, has the wrong idea pop up, then can't remember if it was right or wrong - often ending up with the wrong method. Take slope for example (how steep a line is). Most students left to their own method will think the x is over the y (x/y) when in reality it's y/x (rise over run). This is such a basic foundation to algebra and kids are really foundering with it up to senior year if they get it wrong to begin with. Getting it wrong is more common than getting it right.

 

 

 

Guesswork - absolutely horrid! They intentionally spend time teaching "Guess and Check" when it would be so much shorter just to teach the method correctly in the first place. Then go back to the issue with "Discover it yourself." So, now, in our "need to pass the state test" classes we're teaching kids to the test by showing them how to plug in possible answers (from multiple choice) to see if they work. I detest doing that, but we have no other option. Trying to go back and teach real alg is impossible to do at that point in the student's life (with such a short time frame). Kids also prefer guessing and checking at this point in time. We have more kids than ever before in history in our lowest level math classes. I wonder why...

 

 

 

Anti-algorithm - yes, calculators are all the rage. I've had kids in Alg 2 classes who wouldn't multiply 4x2 or 3x100 without their crutch. Our math has a method of factoring that not only confuses the majority of the kids, but it also takes 3 or 4 times as long as the traditional "foil" method. I was shown the "new way" and was never impressed and won't use it myself as a math sub. I have been known to teach kids foil. The vast majority are appreciative and wonder why they had to do it the "new" way in the first place. I made sure my own youngest (who insisted on returning to ps) knew foil and double checked that he wouldn't be punished for using that over the book's method. Sometimes kids can be punished for using a real method even if it's quicker, more understandable to them, and gets the correct answer.

 

 

Group learning/testing - this allows everyone to pass as they can all depend on the few who know the material. One can pass just via homework completion and group tests (which we used to call cheating in my day...). While there are individual tests, the questions are incredibly easy. Even with that, scores tend to be very low. However, since the other grades bring the student up, they pass. The problem is... the student doesn't KNOW the material. They have no foundation and math builds upon itself. They go from Alg 1 to Geom to Alg 2 to Pre-Calc (all successfully) and then still fail our state test (which should be easy for them at that point). Many, many, many tell me they feel like they never learned a thing - and most didn't. They feel they can't do math. Most probably could have - if they'd had access to a real math course.

 

 

 

In our school they offer College Algebra as a top level math course. This is the only class to use a "real" (IMO) book. It's also sort of misnamed to call it College Algebra because the material is pretty much the exact same as a "traditional" Pre-Calculus book I have (two different ones actually). While it can be college credit at some colleges or in some majors, others actually don't give credit and consider it a remedial class. Nonetheless, it's very useful as it's the only class to truly teach Algebra that is offered at our school. Some kids have told me this class alone improved their math SAT score more than 100 points. However, it moves through a lot of stuff at a college pace and about half the kids in it right now are floundering (remember, only the top kids make it to this class). It's frustrating.

 

 

And one last tidbit? The teacher who teaches this class told me this year has been the worst for "knowledge" in this class. She's not sure why it is that way, but it is. I went ahead and counted backwards. This is the first year of students who have gone through the "new" math in its entirety. Other years had both Alg 1 and Alg 2 or just Alg 1 with a more traditional book. This teacher "loves" the new math (is a book representative to boot - selling it to other schools) and can't see the forest because of the trees IMO. No, it can't be the math curriculum. It has to be the students... for some reason, only a few are good at math this year.

 

 

 

We pulled our kids from ps when they switched math. I have no regrets. My youngest insists on being back at ps. We supplement the math. I can't imagine doing otherwise. He'd be as lost as the rest of them - then would think he can't do math and would get very low scores on college entrance tests.

 

 

For those who know the correlations, our school averages right around 500 for the SAT math and the scores have been heading downward. Our top kids mostly hope to reach 600. (Top score is 800 and most top kids would want to be in the 700 range.)

 

 

That said, 500 is only slightly below the national average, so our school appears to be right in the norm. There are probably plenty of others out there like us.

[ktgrok]

What you describe is not typical for public elementary schools.

Our local elementary ps teaches science and social studies daily (my children attended the school)

 

My son's school was similar to the one the OP mentioned. Actually, two different schools. They did social studies for 20 minutes once a week, if there was time. Science was also once a week. No art at all, ever. One period a day alternated between music, library, guidance, PE, and computers, with PE twice a week.