punishment for 3 year old?

[Guest IdahoMtnMom]

Backstory - we have a 10 month old puppy named Willow. Willow eats anything and everything. Twice now, she has consumed leashes... not to mention stuffed animals in their entirely, blocks... you name it, she ingests it...

 

Willow got spayed last week and is on "kennel" rest for 10 days. I take her out 2x a day for a light walk, to feed her, and potty her. The kids were tormenting her relentlessly on Saturday and both got timeouts. Yesterday, I caught DD3 trying to put blocks in the kennel. I talked to her and gave her a time out.

 

Tonight, I went to get Willow to let her out and I noticed her leash has been pushed through the grates in the kennel door. I opened the door and sure enough, she has chewed the huge metal hook that goes on to her collar off and I didn't see it anywhere. I frantically asked the kids who put it in there and DD3 pipes up and said "I did mommy."

 

I did find the hook in the kennel (thank goodness because I would have needed to get her the vet as it was too big to pass through and I don't have the $ right now) but DD3 was just laughing when I explained Willow could have gone to Heaven and that she disobeyed me and such. SO I took all the money out of her piggy bank (a little over $7) and told her SHE has to buy Willow a new leash with the money. She cried a bit and then apologized to Willow.

 

Now my dad says that I was WAY TOO HARD ON HER and that at 3, she doesn't understand taking her money away. My mom agreed with my dad... AM I being too hard? It took her 3 months to save that up... but on the other hand, I must have told her 20 times (not joke) in 5 days to leave Willow alone.

Edited October 25, 2011 by IdahoMtnMom
typos

[Renee in NC]

I agree with your parents - she is 3. She doesn't need to be punished or have to pay for a new leash. I would keep her closer and under more supervision, though, to keep her *and* the dog safe.

 

ETA: Just to clarify - I don't condone the disobedience, but I think that with very young children it is more of an "in the moment" thing, so longer term consequences don't make sense.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Renee in FL

[abbeyej]

I don't think you were too hard on her -- but my concern would be that most 3yos don't have much attachment to money and wouldn't be much swayed by that... *But* if your 3yo cares about her money and this is how you can reach her and convince her you're serious, I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with it either. I would take her to the store and have her pass over the money to pay for the leash.

[LaxMom]

Three year olds don't have a long view or cause & effect yet. From a three year old perspective, Willow is feeling unwell and could use some toys to entertain her.

 

Disobeying? Yes. I would punish for that. Every time. For endangering the dog and destroying the leash by offering things to her in the cage? No. She's not going to get the connection. I doubt very much that telling her Willow could "go to heaven" equates with pain and death. She's three. I assume her concept of heaven would be positive.

[Hedgehog]

I think there is a certain stage - maybe somewhere between 2 and 8yo, depending on the child, when we have to recognise that although they don't necessarily understand the consequences of what they are doing, we still need to get across to them that what they are doing is wrong/dangerous/whatever. A child has to start that learning process somewhere, somehow.

 

You know your own child best, so you will know their "currency" - the thing that will really make an impact, that line which they will not cross because the immediate consequences to them are big enough to prevent them from doing whatever it is they shouldn't be doing.

 

I suppose a good question to ask would be, what will I do if DD does this (or something similar) again? IMO, consistency and follow-through are very important at this age; she needs to see that this action will get punished, every time. A dog's health - if not its life - are at stake; that would be serious enough for me to make this a hill to die on, and I don't have too many of those.

 

HTH.

[WishboneDawn]

I don't thin you were too hard but I don't think you've found an effective way to curb the behaviour in a 3 year old.

 

I think the only sure fire way to keep the 3 year old from putting stuff in with the puppy is to either supervise or put the puppy in a different room. You can institute whatever punishment you choose but at 3 a child is still ruled too much by impulse to give much weight to possible consequences.

 

Frankly, I likely would NOT have punished the child because I think I would have recognized the above and realized the one that was really at fault, who really failed to ensure the puppy's safety, was me. :)

[Chris in VA]

I think you weren't too hard on her. I agree with getting her to hand her $ over. She made a mistake, and now she gets to make restitution. Yes, she's young, but she didn't listen to you, and that's the consequence. I'm ok with that.

 

I do think, tho, that you need to put your ddog somewhere else, or put something over the cage that will prevent little fingers from "feeding" things in. OR, just keep those little fingers very, very, very close to you.

 

I'm sorry, it's hard.

[Mergath]

Honestly, I wouldn't keep any leashes where a child that young had access to them in the first place. For most three year olds that I know, it would only be a matter of time before you found the kid with it wrapped around his or her neck, pretending to be a puppy.

[Pretty in Pink]

Three year olds don't have a firm grasp of death, heaven, etc. I think that most of them do not understand concepts of money or the connection between sticking the dog leash in the kennel and Mommy taking their money a few hours later to buy a new leash.

 

I don't know that I would say your punishment was too harsh but I don't think it will be very effective. I think the better thing to do would be to scold her and then make sure that all leashes are placed out of her reach in the future.

[justamouse]

You were too hard on her. There is no way a three year old is going to get the concept of death and how her doing that was going to hurt the dog--for all you know, in her head, she knew the dog loved them and she thought she was doing something nice for the dog because she felt bad for it being sick.

 

You really need to talk to her now, because I bet she's going to be really confused. I did something nice for the dog=mommy got mad and took my $ away. :confused: (not that she understands the value of the $ she saved, either)

 

And I agree with the PPs I would have blamed myself for keeping the leash where she could have gotten it.

[AK_Mom4]

I don't think you were too harsh. It's probably appropriate that she make restitution for what she destroyed. But, I doubt taking her $$ will prevent her from stuffing something else into the kennel or whatever else impulsive thing crosses her mind.

 

What WOULD help with the impulsivity would be curtailing her freedom. Make her stay right next to you all day. When she tries to move out of arm's reach, tell her "no, you have to stay with Mommy because I can't trust you to not put things in Willow's cage". Over and over and over. If she is anything like my kiddos, she will rebel and howl and carry on, but the lesson will get thru to her by the end of the day.

 

Plus, with her in arms reach all day, she won't be able to bother the dog.

[phathui5]

I think that it's unrealistic to expect a three year old to remember to ignore the dog.

[Renee in NC]

What WOULD help with the impulsivity would be curtailing her freedom. Make her stay right next to you all day. When she tries to move out of arm's reach, tell her "no, you have to stay with Mommy because I can't trust you to not put things in Willow's cage". Over and over and over. If she is anything like my kiddos, she will rebel and howl and carry on, but the lesson will get thru to her by the end of the day.

 

Plus, with her in arms reach all day, she won't be able to bother the dog.

 

:iagree: This is how I handle similar things, even with the older ones.

[AnnaM]

I think you weren't too hard on her. I agree with getting her to hand her $ over. She made a mistake, and now she gets to make restitution. Yes, she's young, but she didn't listen to you, and that's the consequence. I'm ok with that.

 

I do think, tho, that you need to put your ddog somewhere else, or put something over the cage that will prevent little fingers from "feeding" things in. OR, just keep those little fingers very, very, very close to you.

:iagree: to a extent with this.

 

I dont think we give kids enough credit. I know my three year old might not comprehend the money/death thing (so I would have maybe found a different consequence) but he most certainly understands when mommy tells him no and he does it anyways that trouble is coming.

[regentrude]

I don't thin you were too hard but I don't think you've found an effective way to curb the behaviour in a 3 year old.

 

I think the only sure fire way to keep the 3 year old from putting stuff in with the puppy is to either supervise or put the puppy in a different room. You can institute whatever punishment you choose but at 3 a child is still ruled too much by impulse to give much weight to possible consequences.

 

Frankly, I likely would NOT have punished the child because I think I would have recognized the above and realized the one that was really at fault, who really failed to ensure the puppy's safety, was me. :)

 

:iagree:

A 3 year old is too young to be around animals unsupervised.

[Jilly]

I think that it's unrealistic to expect a three year old to remember to ignore the dog.

 

:iagree:

[Joker]

There is no way I would have expected either of my dds at three yrs old to ignore a dog. If they knew doggie was sick and doggie was held hostage inside a crate, there is no telling what they might have done. I wouldn't have punished by taking money but would have had a stern talk. In the end I would have realized it was my fault for not supervising kiddos enough and not making sure doggie was safe from little people.

[Haiku]

AM I being too hard?

 

Yes. She's three. Perhaps she needs to obey you better, but really she has no concept of how her actions affect the dog, and punishing a three year old seems fruitless. Maybe she needs more supervision.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

"no, you have to stay with Mommy because I can't trust you to not put things in Willow's cage".

 

Ouch. Really? Tell a three year old she's untrustworthy?

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

I am hoping you're kidding.

 

She's 3. Three. III. Trois. Gimel.

[rocketgirl]

You are the only one who can know, in my opinion, because when you punish and have consequences, you have to make them meaningful, at that moment, to your child (because it changes!). One parent might say, take away tv, but if your child doesn't watch tv that wouldn't matter right? If money is meaningful to your child, then yes take that away. You are the one who knows what is meaningful, trust yourself.

 

My 'then' 7 year old scraped/gouged lines in our dining table one day. A metal spring was left there from some toy & she used it to draw lines for whatever 7 year old reason she had, not in anger, or disobedience. But they are permanent, we can't really undo them without sanding the entire table top, re staining it, etc. So its pretty permanent. Money is her "thing". So I told her she would not receive the money she had earned that week for doing her jobs and that she would have to do her jobs the following week too without dollars. Those dollars would not even begin to pay for the actual repair, but it was her "thing" and struck a chord. Making it two weeks I felt was appropriate because she was old enough & learned that this wasn't a quick fix. Although after that day when we dealt with the situation, we didn't go on and on about it, remind her of it, etc because kids need quick consequences, they may be long lasting, but they don't have to feel horrible for weeks either.

 

If money is your child's "thing" then that was totally appropriate because consequences have to be meaningful.

Edited October 25, 2011 by rocketgirl

[Joanne]

I don't think 3 year olds need punishment.

 

The juxtaposition of pets and 3 year old are often a recipe for disaster. 3 year old understand "no", but their impulse control is, by definition and design, limited.

 

Here is a repost of something I wrote when I moderated a discipline forum about children and pets. It's not always popular, but it's true.

 

Children and pets often seem like a natural. At least in theory. We think they will be great friends. We think it's a good way to build care skills and responsibility. They are cuddly, fun, and great companions.

 

But children and pets are often a very challenging mix. Introducing a young, needy pet to a young, needy family is often unfair to everyone involved. There are many cases where even the best and most consistently applied Grace Based Discipline techniques fail to adequately address pet issues. This is not a failure of GBD; punitive parenting also fails to address pet issues.

 

It's a situation of lack of maturity, combined with lack of impulse control. At the same time, animals create a wild, intense interest and children often cannot stop themselves even though they cognitively know better. And, played with roughly, animals will be animals.

 

I don't want to be entirely discouraging. Some children do not hyperfocus on animals and intuitvely treat them with kindness and respect. But some do not and those that do not, I've not found a remedy for except for time and maturity. If I had to put an age on it, I would not recommend introducing a pet until children are school age.

 

If you already have a pet or feel strongly about getting one, there are some ideas.

 

Role play. Teach the child about animal care, respect, and boundaries using stuffed animals and have the child practice.

 

Make respectfully interacting with the pet a condition of the pet being in your company. Remove the pet from the area as soon as those conditions are violated.

 

Remind, practice and remind again.

 

Structure your lives so that the pet gets protected while your child builds the impulse control.

 

If you don't have a pet, but plan on getting one, chose carefully. Choose a family friendly pet that works for the ages of your children and lifestyle.

 

Remember that puppies take time and energy and your children may develop a love/hate relationship in response to that.

 

Pets can be a wonderful addition to your family. Or an incredible challenge.

[Mergath]

I don't think 3 year olds need punishment.

 

The juxtaposition of pets and 3 year old are often a recipe for disaster. 3 year old understand "no", but their impulse control is, by definition and design, limited.

 

 

:iagree: No matter how many times I tell my dd that she shouldn't sprint towards every strange dog she sees, screaming her head off and waving her arms in the air, she does it every time she sees a dog.

 

Also, I think my cat is several inches flatter than she was before dd became mobile.

[Guest IdahoMtnMom]

The leash should not have been left where she could get it. I agree. They had never thought to take it down before so I didn't think abou it. Normally it's on a hook in the garage... I had it in because she needs to go out at night since her surgery.

 

DD does understand death and sickness... sadly, too much so for a child her age.

 

Money is her "thing"... just pennies. she has no concept of value yet.

 

Willow kennel is in MY room in my walk in closet (pretty large 12x11). DD cannot reach the door handles. DS opened the door for her or I left it open. I thought I had put her out of the way so that the kids would not think about where she was. Willow is a good dog for the kids. I do not think that animals and kids don't mix. Quite the opposite. There has been no issues between Willow and the kids and they love her and she loves them.

 

I probably did overreact. I just get frustrated with DD because she knows what "no" means and disobeys anyone anytime... with a smirk on her face. Time outs don't work. Taking toys away doesn't work. Not letting her do fun stuff with her doesn't work. I keep saying with her it's like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay.

[justamouse]

I just get frustrated with DD because she knows what "no" means and disobeys anyone anytime... with a smirk on her face. Time outs don't work. Taking toys away doesn't work. Not letting her do fun stuff with her doesn't work. I keep saying with her it's like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay.

 

They don't work because she's three-and she thinks it's a game yet. Don't bother doing it-she's not developmentally ready for any consequences like that. Just because you think she understands No doesn't mean she really does, it's a sometimes thing at that age-you can't count on it and you can't punish them into making them understand No all the time. You have to be patient until she gets older.

 

She may have an idea bout the pennies because she sees the value YOU place on the pennies -that doesn't mean she actually understands paying for the leash.

 

:grouphug:

[Forget-Me-Not]

I think the only sure fire way to keep the 3 year old from putting stuff in with the puppy is to either supervise or put the puppy in a different room. You can institute whatever punishment you choose but at 3 a child is still ruled too much by impulse to give much weight to possible consequences.

 

Frankly, I likely would NOT have punished the child because I think I would have recognized the above and realized the one that was really at fault, who really failed to ensure the puppy's safety, was me. :)

 

:iagree: Really, I can't agree with this enough

[Catwoman]

Also, I think my cat is several inches flatter than she was before dd became mobile.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Catwoman]

I probably did overreact. I just get frustrated with DD because she knows what "no" means and disobeys anyone anytime... with a smirk on her face. Time outs don't work. Taking toys away doesn't work. Not letting her do fun stuff with her doesn't work. I keep saying with her it's like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay.

 

Don't beat yourself up over it. We all overreact sometimes. :grouphug:

[carlychan]

Money would mean nothing to my 3 and 4 year olds. I know my littles know what the word "no" means because they lie if asked if they did it! That tells me they understand "no."

 

I would probably give them a short time out and put the dog somewhere they could not reach her. At this young age they just need more supervision. I don't think long talks about the dog going to heaven or something similar would have any effect whatsoever. They are not little adults.

 

My littles are constantly doing things I tell them not to (pouring water on the floor, throwing balls in the house, etc.). That is why I am going to totally steal this line: I keep saying with her it's like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay. :lol:

[texasmama]

You were too hard on her. There is no way a three year old is going to get the concept of death and how her doing that was going to hurt the dog--for all you know, in her head, she knew the dog loved them and she thought she was doing something nice for the dog because she felt bad for it being sick.

 

You really need to talk to her now, because I bet she's going to be really confused. I did something nice for the dog=mommy got mad and took my $ away. :confused: (not that she understands the value of the $ she saved, either)

 

And I agree with the PPs I would have blamed myself for keeping the leash where she could have gotten it.

 

:iagree: A three year old needs more supervision around a pet, IMO, so neither of them get hurt.

[Guest submarines]

Totally developmentally inappropriate, hence too harsh and also ineffective.

 

:grouphug: It is a frustrating situation for all involved.

[LittleIzumi]

They don't work because she's three-and she thinks it's a game yet. Don't bother doing it-she's not developmentally ready for any consequences like that. Just because you think she understands No doesn't mean she really does, it's a sometimes thing at that age-you can't count on it and you can't punish them into making them understand No all the time. You have to be patient until she gets older.

 

She may have an idea bout the pennies because she sees the value YOU place on the pennies -that doesn't mean she actually understands paying for the leash.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I have that child too. It is quite a real game to her. She won't really understand for a while.

[WishboneDawn]

I probably did overreact. I just get frustrated with DD because she knows what "no" means and disobeys anyone anytime... with a smirk on her face. Time outs don't work. Taking toys away doesn't work. Not letting her do fun stuff with her doesn't work. I keep saying with her it's like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay.

 

That's 3. :D

 

I'd just pick one method like time outs and stick with it even if it doesn't seem to be working. Eventually, when she's a little more mature it will and in the meantime you've given yourself some training in consistency. :)

[ChrissySC]

I tend to agree ... not much you can do to punish a 3 yo. I have a hard enough time convincing my 4 yo that needs to sit in time out for throwing a ball in the house! I am slowly teaching some consequence, but at 3 ..... no way could we have gone there. We had to be short and to the point and very, very exact. You would have been done with stating not to do it ever again.

 

We call this "terrible two plus one".

[fairfarmhand]

I would not take money out of the bank, but she would be helping with chores to earn money to pay for a new leash. Then she figures out that $$$$=work=new leash

[Tammyla]

:iagree: She is 3; as the adult...you're responsible.

 

You were too hard on her. There is no way a three year old is going to get the concept of death and how her doing that was going to hurt the dog--for all you know, in her head, she knew the dog loved them and she thought she was doing something nice for the dog because she felt bad for it being sick.

 

You really need to talk to her now, because I bet she's going to be really confused. I did something nice for the dog=mommy got mad and took my $ away. :confused: (not that she understands the value of the $ she saved, either)

 

And I agree with the PPs I would have blamed myself for keeping the leash where she could have gotten it.

[Joanne]

The leash should not have been left where she could get it. I agree. They had never thought to take it down before so I didn't think abou it. Normally it's on a hook in the garage... I had it in because she needs to go out at night since her surgery.

 

DD does understand death and sickness... sadly, too much so for a child her age.

 

Money is her "thing"... just pennies. she has no concept of value yet.

 

Willow kennel is in MY room in my walk in closet (pretty large 12x11). DD cannot reach the door handles. DS opened the door for her or I left it open. I thought I had put her out of the way so that the kids would not think about where she was. Willow is a good dog for the kids. I do not think that animals and kids don't mix. Quite the opposite. There has been no issues between Willow and the kids and they love her and she loves them.

 

I probably did overreact. I just get frustrated with DD because she knows what "no" means and disobeys anyone anytime... with a smirk on her face. Time outs don't work. Taking toys away doesn't work. Not letting her do fun stuff with her doesn't work. I keep saying with her it's like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay.

 

 

Understanding "no" from a definitional standpoint does not make them more mature. 3 year olds are immature. They are interested and distracted by so much. Trying to find their "currency" is an adversarial perspective.

 

At 3, you can spank time out take away privileges. Or you can wait and they will grow and mature at the same rate. I am not advocating passive or permissive parenting but a simple get off your butt policy is all that is needed at 3.

[fairfarmhand]

I would not take money out of the bank, but she would be helping with chores to earn money to pay for a new leash. Then she figures out that $$$$=work=new leash

to clarify, it also somewhat depends on the kid. My oldest dd was working to earn money for goodies at 3 and fully understood the concept, while my youngest who is currently 3 would not get it at all.

[Lady Florida.]

They don't work because she's three-and she thinks it's a game yet. Don't bother doing it-she's not developmentally ready for any consequences like that. Just because you think she understands No doesn't mean she really does, it's a sometimes thing at that age-you can't count on it and you can't punish them into making them understand No all the time. You have to be patient until she gets older.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

Understanding "no" from a definitional standpoint does not make them more mature. 3 year olds are immature. They are interested and distracted by so much. Trying to find their "currency" is an adversarial perspective.

 

At 3, you can spank time out take away privileges. Or you can wait and they will grow and mature at the same rate. I am not advocating passive or permissive parenting but a simple get off your butt policy is all that is needed at 3.

 

:iagree:with the above. As others have pointed out, she's 3. She's only three. She needs supervision, redirection, and instruction. Repeatedly. Yes, you will get tired and frustrated, but it's what she needs. Punishing a three year old is pointless.

[MelissaMinNC]

:grouphug: When my dd was 3, I often thought that only one of us was going to survive till her 4th birthday. I never knew which one of us it would be. Happily, we both made it - she turned 10 a couple of weeks ago, and is (almost always) much more delightful than she was at 3.