For those who pushed academics in early elementary...

[JessMcG]

DD (third grade) averages about 6 hours of academic work. It is not unusual for her to spend 1.5 hours working on math (Singapore). I am always concerned that she's doing too much. But then, she is working on worthwhile curriculum. It should serve her well in the future. She is not naturally motivated so there is a struggle to get her to work, but she is bright and "gets" what she is learning. Though she would much rather be reading or playing.

 

Anyway, I would love to hear any wisdom from moms who gave their 2nd graders and up similar workloads (or more). How do you feel about it now that your children are older? Do you wish you had been more laid back? Or are you pleased with the results?

[Susann]

I know I'm not who you're looking for but just wanted to say....

 

Oh my, IMHO, that's a very heavy work load for that age. If she's not naturally motivated as you say, how do you think it will be as she get older? We really enjoyed the younger years up through about 4th grade with lots of reading, fieldtrips, math workbooks, etc. then started in on academics. FWIW, dd did about 6 hours/day in high school. She was a NM winner and is in the top undergraduate engineering school in US. You sound like a consciencious mom & I guess I just gently wanted to say enjoy the early years with your little one there's so much time for academics later.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Susann
additional info

[Meriwether]

Dd8 does about 6 hours many days - sometimes more if we are behind. She is doing 4th grade. We often don't cover everything I'd like.

[catz]

My academically advanced 5th grader does not do 6 hours a day of "core" work. We do so much out of the house I think "counts" as school that isn't necessarily traditional learning that maybe some days we are at 6.

 

Anyway, I'd be worry about burn out. But you know your child and goals best. My kids are avid readers and always test ahead of grade level. And highly resist my agenda. So I chose a lighter workload and pick my priorities carefully and leave more time for them to pick and chose things for them to explore.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Does she do math every day? 1.5 hours a day, 5 days a week sounds like quite a lot. My third grader is doing about 20-40 minutes of math per day, 5 days a week.

[catz]

I think quality is more important than quantity. I notice towards the end of a four hour day I barely have my son's attention anymore so I don't see the point if he isn't "with me" anymore. :D

 

:iagree: When my son was going to school I think it was rare the kids were retaining or getting anything from programming in the afternoon. Seriously. It depends on the kid, but I find that if I can do 1 quality in the morning, it might be better than 3 hours later in the day or if they are distracted. I work my kids hard when we do work, but do it in small doses.

[Dolphin]

We do 6 hours, but only 3 days a week. I have a 4th grader, so we aim for about 20 hours a week. My ds likes good chunks of time for his activities and playing, so we do 3 long days, and 2 short (1 hour) days most weeks. I think he would burn out if it was 5 days a week.

[tntgoodwin]

dd5 only does a few subjects, but she rarely does them all the same day, and we only push her to do as much as she wants until she gets bored. That usually comes out to 2-4 pages in math, or 5-7 lessons in OPGTR. Maybe half a page or 1 page in handwriting. It's going slow, but she is doing well, and her reading is impressing me.

[unsinkable]

Dd8 does about 6 hours many days - sometimes more if we are behind. She is doing 4th grade. We often don't cover everything I'd like.

 

:confused:

 

How can you be "behind" with an 8 yo working 6 hours per day doing 4th gr. work?

 

Typically 4th graders are 9 in the beginning of the year and 10 at the end.

 

:confused:

[regentrude]

I have a hard time getting 6 hours of quality, concentrated academic work from my very academically oriented 14 y/o.

Not all hours are equally valuable. We find that afternoon work is of lesser quality, with less focus, less retention. So for my children, this work load would not have been an effective way of producing results at this age.

[Rosie_0801]

Does she still read and play after her six hours of school?

 

Rosie

[FiveOaksAcademy]

If my 8 year old did 1.5 hours of singapore per day, I think he'd be finished with 6b by the middle of 4th grade. Do you do all the extra books as well? There just isn't 1.5 hours of work to do in a regular Singapore course load, I wouldn't think.?.? Am I missing something?

 

We spend around 4.5 hours per day, get a lot done in that time, and I feel really good about his education. I can recognize when it is time for a break and when things aren't getting through anymore. I think that is a key to knowing if the work is worthwhile anymore. For us, if we did 6 hours worth of work, there would come a point in there where it was just tedious seat work and there was no value in it anymore because he'd be tired, needing to play, needing to run, weary, overwhelmed, etc. Also, for what it's worth, I feel that 6 hours of homeschool time would be worth about a 9-hour day for a non-homeschooler.

[myfunnybunch]

Hmm. I'm wondering: Why is she doing Singapore Math for 1.5 hours?

 

I *do* stress academic rigour. I have math-motivated children. But they do not spend that much time on math, even though we double up on math curricula. (We do Singapore and "Fun Math" which is a blend of MEP and math games and puzzles.) Doing 2 math programs, my current third grader spends less than an hour on math daily (plus some time on Khan Academy videos/exercises).

 

My thoughts (and keep in mind that I don't know what applies to you specifically, so I am speaking generally):

 

If it takes her 1.5 hours to go through a single lesson, including instruction time, lesson and challenge problems, I'd say it might be appropriate for a *very motivated* student. For a student who's struggling with motivation, I'd be hesitant to spend this much time. Singapore Math is meant to be done in short chunks. The only way (under usual circumstances) I'd do a 1.5 hour Singapore lesson is if my child was asking to keep going on to the next lesson. In that case, I say, "Have at it!" Otherwise, I'd break lessons into even smaller chunks, half lessons or lesson from the textbook one day, practice in the workbook the next. Your goal really is to keep your child moving forward evenly without frustrating her or burning her out.

 

If it takes 1.5 hours because you're trying to do more than one lesson at a time, it may be time to map out your long-term goals. You really don't want to push through a curriculum so quickly that your child reaches, for example, algebra before her brain has matured enough to do that kind of abstract thinking. Mind, I am not saying that your child is not capable, or that abstract thinking matures at the same age for every child. I am saying that when we're accelerating a child that is not motivated to accelerate, it's time to step back and evaluate our goals. Where do you want your child when she graduates high school? Then work backward: Where will she need to be as a 9th grader? As a 6th grader? Next year?

 

I thought it was really cool that my third grader was doing 5th-6th grade math. Then I realized that my math-motivated guy was indeed going to reach algebra before he was quite ready, based on what I know of him. I looked at my long-range plan, and realized that I didn't need to move him forward so quickly. I started challenging him by studying math deeper and wider, giving him more independent study. I provided math challenges designed to help him think mathematically and let go of his grade level.

 

Cat

[Farrar]

It's the 1.5 hours on a single math program that struck me too. I don't think 6 hours of school is excessive if it's a mix of things - book work, reading, worksheets, projects, art, science experiments, etc. Not what we do, but to each their own. But that seems like a really long time to be at a single thing.

[unsinkable]

It's the 1.5 hours on a single math program that struck me too. I don't think 6 hours of school is excessive if it's a mix of things - book work, reading, worksheets, projects, art, science experiments, etc. Not what we do, but to each their own. But that seems like a really long time to be at a single thing.

 

Yes, if you are counting baking w/mom, "free" reading, nature walks, arts and crafts...then I can see coming up with 6 hours.

 

But formal, sit at a table/desk 'til you're done with this math, grammar, history, etc...no way. Not at 8 years old.

[Meriwether]

:confused:

 

How can you be "behind" with an 8 yo working 6 hours per day doing 4th gr. work?

 

Typically 4th graders are 9 in the beginning of the year and 10 at the end.

 

:confused:

 

Well, she started K at 4 because she begged and pleaded. Since then we've always just done the next level. She is young for 4th grade - she'd even be youngish for 3rd since she has a May birthday. She isn't behind for her age, but in any given week or month we may be behind our goals for that school year. We live far from family. Last year we traveled a week out of every month. I'm hoping to average slightly less this year. A week off every month means some longer days to cover the material. She does a lot of seatwork, but a good chunk of her school day is reading to herself or being read to. Dd isn't gifted but she is quick to pick things up, has a great memory, and enjoys learning. Since she was little she has always seemed older than she is. It really isn't too much for her, and I am willing to cut school short if it isn't going well.

[Alenee]

Yes, I did that with my oldest dd. I decided not to repeat it with my younger two dds and guess what? I'm seeing the same results, academically speaking. My youngest is 7yo and her only formal *seat-work* is spelling (SWR) and copywork. She will not receive a math book for at least another year. Her math (we talk about it ALLLLL the time and use oral calculadders) is right on the same level, if not more advanced than her older sister at the same age, and this has all been done without a program. Kids observe the world around them and pick up on far more when they aren't stuck with their faces in a workbook all day.

 

I see you're talking about your oldest child. Please enjoy her! She won't be 9yo forever. I cannot tell you the sadness I felt when my youngest dd was 5yo. I looked at how small she was and realized all I had missed out on with my oldest because of the amount of work I had her doing at that age. I mourned for quite a while over what I'd missed.

[Amy in NH]

My 9 year old doesn't do 6 hours of work per day. On a very busy day maybe 4. Some days less.

 

I think quality is more important than quantity.

:iagree:

 

IME, young brains need time to assimilate new material. IMO 6 hours per day for early elementary is a recipe for burn out. Slow and steady wins the race.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Amy in NH

[Carrie-txmama2six]

Yes, I did that with my oldest dd. I decided not to repeat it with my younger two dds and guess what? I'm seeing the same results, academically speaking. My youngest is 7yo and her only formal *seat-work* is spelling (SWR) and copywork. She will not receive a math book for at least another year. Her math (we talk about it ALLLLL the time and use oral calculadders) is right on the same level, if not more advanced than her older sister at the same age, and this has all been done without a program. Kids observe the world around them and pick up on far more when they aren't stuck with their faces in a workbook all day.

 

I see you're talking about your oldest child. Please enjoy her! She won't be 9yo forever. I cannot tell you the sadness I felt when my youngest dd was 5yo. I looked at how small she was and realized all I had missed out on with my oldest because of the amount of work I had her doing at that age. I mourned for quite a while over what I'd missed.

 

I agree! I do not know if this is something you can truly understand until you get there though.

[bettyandbob]

I covered a lot of ground with my older 2 in early elementary. They were always a couple of grade levels ahead in most subjects except writing. Oldest was waaay ahead in history and science simply because reading was a preferred leisure activity for him and nonfiction was preferred to any fiction. They were both at least 2 grade levels ahead in math. I used multiple math curricula at once. Multiple history curricula at once. We did real science with labs (I majored in chem). They studied Latin and French. During the years they were home they did not do 1.5 hours of math daily. They did not do 6 hours of work daily. We always had a field trip day/weekly. There was a period where we either had homeschool gymnastics 2x a week or a YMCA homeschool program 2X a week within of our "academic day". We did project days, like acting like a Roman. I know it was all less than 6 hours because one of my dc has always been in school due to special needs--we had to get it all done within the public school schedule. I ended up moving art after school to include my ds with special needs. We packed in content and fun in a short period.

 

I don't say this to brag. I think most of the women on this board pack a lot in and have manage to have fun and enjoy their children.

 

I may have read the OP the wrong way, but it sounds like there's a danger of being a taskmaster most of the time with that schedule. If a homeschool parent is a taskmaster most of the time at that age, what happens in the adolescent years. Sure, there's a lot of learning to get done in the early years, but it's also a great time to just get to know your dc and have them know you so that when they are in high school they are still comfortable talking to you about life.

[myfunnybunch]

I'm seeing the same results, academically speaking.

 

Yes, this. I didn't get to finish my first post, because I had to leave. What I have found is that my younger boys, with far less focused academic time, are progressing at about the same pace. As a matter of fact, a series of short focused lessons seems to get better results over time.

 

Cat

[sgo95]

I agree with the previous posters in wondering about the 1.5 hours for Singapore. I have 3 DD's (5, 7, & 9) each working through one year of Singapore and one other math program each year (i.e., we cover the same grade of work in two programs). They're all "ahead" of their "grade" according to public school ages. Anyway, they usually work for 20 minutes each day on math. If they're distracted, it can take twice as long. But that's enough for them to progress through two math programs a year. Do you mean 1.5 hours of solid work sitting down at the table for math?

 

Also, for all formal sit-down work (including math), we only do around 1.5 hrs each day (writing, handwriting, spelling, math). Other work (history, science, piano, Chinese, etc) is more like reading and talking together and then doing activities (experiments, acting things out, creating things, etc) and takes another 2-3 hrs.

 

I like the advice about enjoying your oldest.

Edited October 24, 2011 by sgo95
killed a kitten

[Embassy]

DD (third grade) averages about 6 hours of academic work. It is not unusual for her to spend 1.5 hours working on math (Singapore). I am always concerned that she's doing too much. But then, she is working on worthwhile curriculum. It should serve her well in the future. She is not naturally motivated so there is a struggle to get her to work, but she is bright and "gets" what she is learning. Though she would much rather be reading or playing.

 

Anyway, I would love to hear any wisdom from moms who gave their 2nd graders and up similar workloads (or more). How do you feel about it now that your children are older? Do you wish you had been more laid back? Or are you pleased with the results?

 

My oldest is only in 4th grade, but we had about 6 hour days in 3rd grade. Our seatwork time wasn't close to 6 hours though. We spent a lot of time on electives. Our schooltime is mostly collaborative learning or teacher-intensive.

[mo2]

It's the 1.5 hours on a single math program that struck me too. I don't think 6 hours of school is excessive if it's a mix of things - book work, reading, worksheets, projects, art, science experiments, etc. Not what we do, but to each their own. But that seems like a really long time to be at a single thing.

 

Is she doing the math all in one sitting? We often do 1.5 hours of math a day but split it into two smaller chunks. And, is she actually *working* on the math that whole time, or is she a dawdler?

[joannqn]

You've got me wondering what you could possibly be doing for 6 hours a day.

 

My 5th and 7th graders only do 4 hours most days. That doesn't count reading, because they do that on their own time. It does count everything other subject, though.

[Guest submarines]

I agree! I do not know if this is something you can truly understand until you get there though.

 

:iagree: I can't believe how mature DD seemed to me at 5, and even 3, and how much work I thought she should have been doing. I remind myself daily that even at 9 she is still a child! It is only in comparison with my younger children that I was able to look at childhood in a more balanced way.

[jplain]

My 8yo 3rd grader has ~4 hours of work a day. About an hour of that is math, which she loves.

Three or four days a week we also have a 1.5 or 2 hour homeschooler activity or playgroup. I feel like our days are plenty long!

Lately I've been thinking about how to make sure she has more time for pleasure reading and other play....

[Pamela H in Texas]

*I* can see doing six hours, assuming some are more or less structured than others.

 

In 2009, I had my friend's son for Kindy and into 1st grade after he was kicked out of Kindergarten (after being moved to a special classroom first). He simply NEEDED to be engaged, structured, etc in order to function appropriately. We did multiple programs for the 3Rs, not just one. So for math, he did Horizon's and MUS as well as quarter mile math and a program on the computer. Just for example. He did a very comprehensive WTM type first grade plus the fact that I added a lot in. We included the Presidential Physical Challenge, a daily walk/bike/scooter or two, and Brain Gym exercises. And lunch was included. So 8am to 2pm was easy! We also had a little time before and after that we did various things which still were learning because he was six. Wii Fit, Game of LIFE, dominoes, butterfly garden, etc. And his mom did "homework" with him also.

 

Do I think he'd be burnt out by 4th grade with that schedule? No. Different kids have different needs. We mixed it up with more fun and more serious, more strict and more laid back, more play and more push. But this kid needed structure. And he started at a more structured private school and has excelled since :)

 

Now, if you are doing strict academics that require a very high focus level, sitting still, etc? I do think that could be problematic. But simply having an academically focused day does not seem problematic in the least to me.

 

As for the question of whether I'd do it again? If I had a child who needed that level of structure, absolutely without a doubt. Now, I have a very interesting belief regarding "being a kid" and "strong basics" regardless. We just try to keep the balance right for each individual child.

Edited October 24, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[Donna]

I started homeschooling with a very structured, "school-at-home" approach with my boys. They were academically ahead of peers and did the work but they just didn't seem to be self-motivated or love learning. Sure, they learned everything I taught them and did well on testing but there just seemed to be something lacking. We did lots of projects and field trips. They loved those things but they did not love to do their seat work or ask to learn anything on their own. It was like once school was over, all they wanted was to play.

 

By the time my youngest came along, I had done a ton of reading on learning especially in the early years. I eased up on the school-at-home approach and made everything more hands on and fun for everyone. I started homeschooling my youngest in a more child-led way and gradually added in the academic subjects as she got older. She is way ahead of where her brothers were academically at the same ages. She loves to learn and is completely self-motivated. She knows what she wants to learn, loves to have input into subjects, and finds things that interest her to go off on tangents. She spends a large part of every day in an academically focused way...we alternate periods of learning with instrument practices and she is busy from 8:30am until 3pm when her brothers get home and often does more practice and/or school in the evenings after free time while I cook dinner. It isn't all sitting in a chair and doing work...much of her time is spent with me reading and learning together and the rest is child directed using the materials I have for her.

 

It is a completely different experience. We have so much fun learning. I feel more like a guide to her than a task-master. Even the most difficult subjects are fun for her and she looks forward to doing school every day.

 

I don't know if I can blame the teaching style completely for the differences in my children...part of it just may be their personalities but if I had another child, I'd follow the second approach. When I eased up with the boys, they found their love of learning and seemed to learn more so I do think the teaching/schooling style did play a large part though.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Donna

[The Governess]

My 2nd grader (doing mostly 3rd grade work) gets in about 5.5 hours a day. My kindergartener, about 3. This includes independent reading and some of our read-alouds. They both love school and are thriving with the schedule. We have fun. If we didn't, I would make some changes.

[Meriwether]

You've got me wondering what you could possibly be doing for 6 hours a day.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you were addressing the OP. But this is what my daughter does...

 

Our opening bit... prayer, song, Bible story (Ds5's Bible but the older two choose to listen), Daily Language Review, Balance Math sheet, possibly exercise or memory work (20-25 min)

 

Reading - 1 or 2 chapters of a literature book (this takes 30-45 min)

 

Math - Watch Dive CD (she often asks to do typing while at the computer so add 15-20 mins) completes one lesson of Saxon 6/5. This takes about 1 hour.

 

English - 15-20 mins on average, but sometimes 30 minutes

 

Latin - 30 - 45 mins

 

Bible - 20 mins

 

History - projects, read-alouds, worksheets at least 60 minutes

 

Science - 45-60 minutes, reading and experiments

 

Art or Writing - 30+ minutes

 

Spelling and Penmanship - 15 minutes

 

 

She has two different spots where she does seatwork. She moves between the couch and cd player as well. She probably has three hours worth of seatwork; the rest of her work consists of projects, reading, chanting, etc.

 

She will also read from her book basket or from her library books for about 2 hours before bed. She loves mysteries, but she also checks out books on fevers, deer hunting, voting, theater, Shakespeare for kids, dinosaurs, going to school during the Civil War (she checked out one for the North and one for the South so she could compare and contrast).

 

She also spends hours each day just being a kid. She loves visiting people. She loves coop. She has never liked toys very much, but she loves games. She loves running around outside for hours at a time. She plays with the boys and the baby. She helps me in the kitchen. She is a happy, healthy kid. Schoolwork isn't depriving her of her childhood. It isn't putting a strain on our relationship, either. I fully expect to continue to have an open, loving relationship with her into her teens even though she does six hours of school per day instead of four.

[JessMcG]

Hi everyone, OP here. Wish I could have got back sooner. Thank you for all your replies. To clarify...

 

For Singapore we use the Mental Math as drill, go through a lesson in the TB then do the WB, do a couple of pages in IP (1/2 a year behind, and 1 page in CWP (1/2 year behind). 1.5 hours is not unusual (and generally caused by dawdling) but 1 hr is more like it.

 

The other workbook that we do is CLE LA which she enjoys. Then there's copying charts for Essentials (grammar memory program, not so fun).

 

The rest of the 6 hrs includes history (online and she loves it), science (Apologia elementary which is read aloud/activities/projects but she could do without it), IEW (she enjoys), Classical Conversations memory work (oral, done as a family, she's happy to be a part of the co-op), and fiddle/piano (she resists until she gets into it, dh is a musician and it's a big part of his family culture). SO... it's structured, but a good variety.

 

Anyway, I would still LOVE to hear from mom's with older children (middle school and up) who have btdt.

[dhudson]

I have a 9th grader and twin 5th/6th graders. I have always been very academically oriented but in elementary years I kept the workload to about 4 hours.

 

In middle school we push it to 5+ hours and in high school my oldest does 6+.

 

In addition to core subjects ( math, la, history, science, Bible) my twins take both Latin and Spanish. They read through a classic a week and take piano. I still keep the lessons short. Math (Singapore, LOF once a week and drill) still only take 30 to 45 min. I think you can do a lot of subjects but keep them short and interesting with lots of hands on.

 

I want them to still enjoy learning, which is one of our core goals. If your daughter is not enjoying then I think you need to cut back. Does she have time for other interests? Coloring or crafts or cooking or playing outside, whatever. These are important and I personally think think those 11 under need to be done by early afternoon to still have time to be kids.

 

My kids are very academic but they also have time to dream and play and create and build crazy things on the backyard. Sometimes, there is more learning involved in play than there is in structured time.

 

You may also need to cut back as your younger ones get older and need school time as well.

 

Just my opinion. ;)