SKL Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Could it be perhaps that enthusiastic, committed parents, Tiger Moms, simply want to give their dc the education of their own dreams? :bigear: Interesting question, to me, because I was just thinking about this yesterday. Am I becoming a tiger mom / hothousing my kids? I see opportunities that fit my kid, and if I can swing them without taking away too much play time and family time, I sign them up. If I listed them out, most people would probably roll their eyes. But it feels right to me. How do I decide how much is too much? I think one key is to make sure the kids have multpile daily opportunities for unstructured play. Another key is that they get a healthy amount of exercise; and then there's interaction with other kids. Add in time to acquire self-help skills, time to deal appropriately with discipline problems, and plenty of sleep. Oh, and not beating the child into particpation. We are OK on all of these. Granted, we don't do TV, but I think my kids will survive that. Athough I have in the past been one of those who would roll their eyes at my kids' list of activities, I really don't care at this point what others think. They don't have responsibility for getting my kids ready for their future. I do. And lest this appear to be a hijack, I think it's relevant to the giftedness issue, because frankly, my dd needs the stimulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The age matters too. When you get a preschooler who can converse easily and is developmentally ahead, well into pretend and imagination and is reading and adding without any instruction, but put him in a class and expect him to play with a child who is still gesturing, is in parallel play and can't recognize the need to toilet much less remember the teacher's name (she'll be called "teacher" the entire year), the social difficulty is not because the PG child is 'on the spectrum'. ---- This was essentially why we intially had my DD tested. Her daycare teacher was insistent that she HAD to be "on spectrum" because of her behaviors in class. The results were "Nope, this is what an extremely gifted toddler looks/acts like when stuck in a room full of neurotypical toddlers". At 6, DD can play with just about anyone (and usually has a circle of 3-4 kids that she's fairly close to everywhere she goes)-but the actual meeting of the minds only happens with a few kids, usually several years older than she is, and some adults (she says her best friend at Science class is the teacher, for example). Her current BFF is a 12 yr old who is also extremely gifted-and who I suspect is willing to spend time with a 6 yr old more because she KNOWS firsthand just how lonely it is to be out of sync with kids your age and want someone who thinks the way you do than that DD is really her peer. There's also a 15 yr old who is GT identified who has done the same thing, for, I suspect, the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't want to put words into Crimson Wife's mouth, but I know her in real life and she is 100% in support of teaching to kids at their own level and helping them succeed. She is also an awesome mother and friend. In her neck of the woods there are people who have their French speaking au pair take their three year old to Kumon classes every day, and then to a $15,000 uber-fancy preschool in the attempts to crank out kids who are can get into elite colleges like their parents someday. That type of "hothousing" is definitely more about reliving parental guilt about working 90hr weeks, then about helping children have meaningful childhoods. Another type of hothousing is described in the Tiger Mom book, where the author pulls her daughters out of their private school during PE, Lunch, and Recess so that they can have extra practice time with their violin and piano tutors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 ----This was essentially why we intially had my DD tested. Her daycare teacher was insistent that she HAD to be "on spectrum" because of her behaviors in class. The results were "Nope, this is what an extremely gifted toddler looks/acts like when stuck in a room full of neurotypical toddlers". Your experience is interesting to me because it is similar to what happened to us. Ds's preschool teacher insisted he must be on the spectrum so we had him tested and the Neurodevelopmental specialist said "No, he just hasn't found Lego friends who can keep up with him yet." That said, ds does have some fine/gross motor issues and over-excitabilities and may be dyslexic, so I think we are going to pursue a full Neuro-psych eval to see exactly what we are dealing with here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm thinking I may be "on the spectrum". :tongue_smilie: I guess I must be too. Imagine proclaiming to like a movie you had never seen! I'm appaled that people think that is appropriate behaviour. How very sad for that poor girl. I hope she is given the opportunity to learn to love herself as she is and her experiences as they actually are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 CW, I'm curious. Based on this comment above (and in other threads) you seem to be noticeably negative regarding 'hothousing' and I would love to know why. Forgive me if I missed your opinion on this elsewhere. I value your opinions here. I would love to know how accelerating/hothousing is different from old-fashioned teaching the child at his level -- allowing the child to blossom and grow at his/her unique pace -- regardless of age/grade. Are you implying that accelerating one's dc is a result of a parent's desire for a trophy? For external approval? Could it be perhaps that enthusiastic, committed parents, Tiger Moms, simply want to give their dc the education of their own dreams? Is that not our ultimate collective goal here at TWTM forum? We strategically planned the education of our older dc. We knew what we wanted and how to get there, regardless of time or cost. Is that a 'negative' in some circles? :bigear: Here's a real-life example from a few weeks ago. DD is a word nerd and a "natural speller". She has expressed an interest in doing spelling bees (her idea, not mine). A friend at our local support group on a Thursday afternoon asked if DD was planning to enter the regional Macy's/RIF spelling bee that Saturday afternoon. DD wanted to go for it, and spent maybe 2 hours on Friday and 1 more hour on Saturday morning reviewing words in previous Spelling Power lists that had given her difficulty in the past. The Macy's bee was held in the heart of Silicon Valley. I wasn't totally sure what traffic would be like or parking, so I decided to arrive early just to be on the safe side. We stroll in at 1:15 for a 2 P.M. start. I wasn't even sure that there would be anyone there yet to take her registration, but I was flat-out wrong. There were already 47 kids registered for the bee ahead of DD! The final total was 74, which means that close to 2/3 of the kids had arrived more than 45 minutes early. DD and I spent the downtime before the bee doing window shopping, but most of the other moms spent it drilling their kids. The worst of the "tiger moms" in attendance had an older child participating in the bee and a younger child who was not yet old enough (he looked maybe 6 or 7). The mom forced the poor kid to spell every single word given to every single contestant in the entire bee. If the boy got it wrong or simply was unable to give his mom the spelling of the word before the contestant spelled it, the mom was harshly critical to the point where I felt it sometimes bordered on verbal abuse. :thumbdown: This went on for HOURS. Yes, the woman's older child did place higher in the spelling bee than my DD- I don't know the final outcome but she made it through the round where DD got eliminated so she was at least in the top 6. For the girl's sake, I actually hope she did win, because I would hate to think of the awful criticism the mom would give to her if she lost. While this is probably the most egregious example of "hothousing" that I've witnessed, I wish that I could say I was shocked by it. But sadly, I wasn't. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I guess I must be too. Imagine proclaiming to like a movie you had never seen! I'm appaled that people think that is appropriate behaviour. How very sad for that poor girl. I hope she is given the opportunity to learn to love herself as she is and her experiences as they actually are. How is this any different than pretending to like someone's awful new haircut or whatever in order to be polite? Casual chit-chat is superficial by definition- people just want to shoot the breeze not hear the unvarnished truth. The girl had the social savvy to be able to strike up a conversation with someone she didn't know and B.S. her way through it on very little background knowledge. Maybe she has a future in politics! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) In answer to the original question, being gifted absolutely matters. It affects all parts of who a child is - intellectually, socially and emotionally - and how they interact with the world. These are two of my favorite essays on the subject: Is It a Cheetah? By Stephanie S. Tolan A response to the "All children are gifted" comment by Michael Clay Thompson Also, the introductory chapters in any of Kenneth J. Smith's series of books Challenging Units for Gifted Learners do an exceptional job explaining how and why gifted children think differently, with lots of citations to recent research. (Sorry, I don't have time right now to read the whole thread, so I hope I'm not duplicating what others have said.) Edited September 22, 2011 by songsparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Difficulties with adroitly handling casual social interactions doesn't distinguish HG+ kids from MG or below ones. There are plenty of HG+ individuals who are incredibly strong in that arena. It does, however, distinguish between kids who are "on the spectrum" from ones that are not. I'm not sure what you are basing this idea on, but children/adults can have difficulties with social skills and not be anywhere on the spectrum. There are many variables in play especially with children such as introversion/extroversion and experience. I would guess that most HG+ individuals who are incredibly strong in that area are also extroverted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I have issues with "polite, small talk" on an introverted level (I'm not really shy or that would be another level again since introversion doesn't equal shy but both can hinder social interaction) AND on a totally different level that is unrelated. For a small example, the fact that I had to have a discussion with DH to establish why people ask "how are you?" when I've found that most don't seem to really want to know and what I'm supposed to respond with and why and how if it's not really true - has nothing to do with introversion. I don't know that that kind of thing puts me "on the spectrum" but I do know I'm neurotic and I'm trying to embrace my "quirkiness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I have issues with "polite, small talk" on an introverted level (I'm not really shy or that would be another level again since introversion doesn't equal shy but both can hinder social interaction) AND on a totally different level that is unrelated. For a small example, the fact that I had to have a discussion with DH to establish why people ask "how are you?" when I've found that most don't seem to really want to know and what I'm supposed to respond with and why and how if it's not really true - has nothing to do with introversion. I don't know that that kind of thing puts me "on the spectrum" but I do know I'm neurotic and I'm trying to embrace my "quirkiness". I've had conversations about that :D Also, in high school, when people asked "What's up?" I would reply "The opposite direction of gravitational pull." I've been embracing my "quirkiness" for some time now :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How is this any different than pretending to like someone's awful new haircut or whatever in order to be polite? Casual chit-chat is superficial by definition- people just want to shoot the breeze not hear the unvarnished truth. The girl had the social savvy to be able to strike up a conversation with someone she didn't know and B.S. her way through it on very little background knowledge. Maybe she has a future in politics! ;) I wonder though if a girl choosing this approach is also the girl who when she is older will hide her intelligence so boys will like her. Certainly not what I want to teach my daughters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 ----This was essentially why we intially had my DD tested. Her daycare teacher was insistent that she HAD to be "on spectrum" because of her behaviors in class. The results were "Nope, this is what an extremely gifted toddler looks/acts like when stuck in a room full of neurotypical toddlers". My HG+ kids went to preschool and both fit in fine. My youngest was a overly sensitive about some of the social dynamics, but she enjoyed it. I honestly thought all kids dumbed themselves down in a group setting before I knew my oldest was gifted. And all of a sudden it made sense why I never spoke in preschool. I'm sure I would have been tagged with something in my day. Some of my earliest memories were of trying to fit in with groups of peers. My kids when they meet a new child will go systematically through a list of things until they find something they both like. Anyway, all kids are different, GT or no. I sometimes get this sense in some GT groups that my kids must not really be gifted if they get along well socially, and that just isn't the case for them. There are kids that struggle socially that are average learners too. Every child is unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Anyway, all kids are different, GT or no. I sometimes get this sense in some GT groups that my kids must not really be gifted if they get along well socially, and that just isn't the case for them. There are kids that struggle socially that are average learners too. Every child is unique. This is what I've been gleaning from what I've been reading of late. There are just so many differences. I mean, the term applies to a wider range of IQs than "normal" does and with so many possibilities open to them, all the more room for difference. Perhaps for some it really doesn't matter a great deal beyond providing more challenge or opportunity but for others it appears to not be that simple for a myriad of completely different reasons. On the other hand, it doesn't seem entire different from what any parent of a non-developmentally typical (whatever that is) child has to deal with so I'm generally quite confused. :D I am kind of reminded in a parallel sort of way of issue we've had with DS and certain quirks. We greatly respect people at our church and many have far more parenting experience than we do and we have gained priceless amounts of wisdom from them. However, there are certain things that we have tried to get counsel on but have received nothing but blank stares and "Hmm, yeah, I've never had to deal with something like that." After a time, you really begin to feel like an island and meanwhile, you're struggling to find solutions for things for which all the usual formula fail to apply effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Frankly, I don't think this is a giftedness issue per se but rather a 2E issue. It's not the HG+ that's the problem (I know tons of HG+ people who are very adept in social situations) but rather being at least somewhat "on the spectrum". Maybe not enough for a formal diagnosis of Asperger's, but enough to cause difficulties with the kid equivalent of cocktail party chatter. Having been in gifted classes from middle school onwards and seen all kinds of permutations, I'd say that limited social skills in typical settings don't always mean ASD. I think a more telling indicator (as suggested in "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis") is: how does the child behave among other children of similar ability? For HG/PG children, becoming socially adept enough to blend in with normal or MG age peers isn't necessarily going to happen in the normal childhood ways. Unless they're exceptionally social by nature, I suspect that it's more likely to have to be a learned and deliberate skill. I think motivation and family support have a lot to do with whether or not this happens. Some parents' values tend to lean heavily toward idealism and being true to oneself, or toward intellectual achievement in a specialized field. For these parents, if their HG/PG child has social difficulties with more typical children, they're likely to see the situation itself as the problem. Their solutions might be along the lines of encouraging the child to find satisfaction in solitary or family pursuits, or searching for other HG/PG children to form a peer group. OTOH, other parents are more social and pragmatic in their outlook. They might emphasize "playing the game" and getting on in the world -- or, more altruistically, putting others' feelings first and trying to make them feel at ease. In a past thread (which I can't find), Ester Maria talked about how she does this with her children. I found her insights to be very interesting, because my parents were much more in the former category, and I ended up with the belief that it was somehow insincere to deliberately practice and cultivate one's social skills. As a result, I'm very much able to get along socially in certain settings, but completely useless in others. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Ok, after reading this thread, I think I need to get my dd12 tested. Where do I do that? I called my Dr and they said to go to the school. Should I go tot he school in a non reporting state? Thank you for your honestly in these posts, they really helped me pinpoint stuff that's been bothering me with Ds12. Apart from my MIL thinking 'something is wrong with him'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 We've done a lot of work with DS on looking at things from the other child's point of view, being a good friend and a good host and 'playing the game' in group situations, and he's got pretty good at it now. But he still plays with his same age peers a bit like an older brother, or polite adult - friendly, engaged, having fun, but not quite one of them. Put him with his intellectual peers, however, and he sparks, chatters, they are full of ideas and theories and it's obvious that in those other interactions he's holding back somewhat. I've also noticed that in interactions with his age peers he is more prone to tears of minor injuries or upsets, whereas in a group of HG kids he'll brush it off and carry on. I think he needs to learn to interact with all sorts of people, but I know that as an adult there are other adults whom I metaphorically 'square my shoulders' when I have to spend time with them because I know I'm going to have to nod and smile and play the social game and slow the language and ideas down, and there are other people I can talk hard with, debate, discuss and share ideas... I'd like him to have those opportunities too. It matters - it's not all that he is, nor is it the most important thing, but it is part of what makes him who he is and can't be ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) I agree that being able to make small talk isn't an adequate substitute for having a group of intellectual peers. But at the same time, I think it's important to get along with all kinds of people. At the extreme, I once knew a PG teenager who wouldn't even talk to most of the other students in his gifted class because he thought they wouldn't get his jokes (which weren't particularly complicated). His only friends were at his PG summer camp. Anyway, I found the post from Ester Maria. NB, it took her children several years to learn to do this. If I'm not mistaken, Grover, your son is still very little. It sounds as if he's doing just fine. :) Edited September 24, 2011 by Eleanor apparently I'm not doing fine at proofreading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 If I'm not mistaken, Grover, your son is still very little. It sounds as if he's doing just fine. :) yes, he's still little, and we're happy with where he's at just now... he's made it a whole afternoon without shouting at his sister ;) baby steps :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Grover, it will come. At age 2, we had teachers convinced my DD was autistic because she "couldn't" play with other kids. At age 4, she was able to do so, for fairly short periods, provided I made sure there was a common bond (that was the age where we'd go to the bookstore and read those little cheapy tv-tie in books about every TV show the kids her age were watching, so she'd know the characters, because as long as she had that background, she'd be OK). Now, at almost 7, she can generally be civil to just about anyone and find a way to make it work, but absolutely has preferences as far as who she wants to be around. For example, yesterday we had a homeschool group activity, and at various times DD and her 12 yr old friend were happily discussing Greek Mythology and comparing it to Egyptian mythology, she was stacking blocks with a 1 1/2 yr old baby and telling him the names of the colors in English and Spanish, and she and another 6 yr old girl were using the squares on the carpet to make a board game using their bodies as pieces. Three levels of play, with three kids who were capable of playing at different levels. But it's still hard for her to play "down". Being with a child at her level, or an adult, who she can talk to and really interact and dive in with energizes her. Playing with a child her age exhausts her, as does "babysitting"-and I suspect that it's because, to her, playing with a 6 yr old isn't a big step away from "babysitting" the 1 yr old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I'm not sure what you are basing this idea on, but children/adults can have difficulties with social skills and not be anywhere on the spectrum. There are many variables in play especially with children such as introversion/extroversion and experience. I would guess that most HG+ individuals who are incredibly strong in that area are also extroverted. I'm not talking about introversion/extroversion. I was specifically referring to Jenny in FL's comment about not understanding the point of superficial interaction. An introvert might feel shy in large groups (that's me!) but have no difficulty doing it one-on-one with a familiar person. I've been doing a lot of reading on Asperger's and High Functioning Autism in regards to my youngest child because it's not clear whether she's just developmentally delayed or whether she's "on the spectrum". I just take major issue that having difficulties engaging in "small talk" with non-gifted peers is inherent to being HG+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) I just take major issue that having difficulties engaging in "small talk" with non-gifted peers is inherent to being HG+. It's not universal, but from what I've seen and read about in gifted literature, it's very common with HG children, and even more so with those who are EG/PG. (Cf. books and articles by the Webbs, the Eides, Miraca Gross, etc.) I think it's a stretch to assume that these children all have ASD, however mild. Unless we're defining the term so broadly that everyone who isn't a natural extrovert and social butterfly is considered to be "somewhere on the spectrum." In which case, there are entire cultures in our world where pretty much everyone would qualify. ;) (ETA: No Small Talk Please, We're Finnish) My sense is that it's probably an environmental thing in many cases, and it's possible that parents' attitudes might be a contributing factor. Even in this thread, we've seen some very different ideas about the relative value of "being true to oneself" vs. "fitting in," and about whether or not it's a good thing for children to develop skills with the latter goal in mind. One person's idea of a success seems to be very close to another person's idea of a human tragedy. Edited September 25, 2011 by Eleanor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealedger Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Unfortunately I have experienced this too. It probably goes without saying that this is just part of the package. I have been very frustrated and discouraged when there was a program that was ideally suited for DS. I quietly requested that he be allowed to participate. I was informed that I was undermining the authority of the director, and that he would remain with his peers. I was also informed that ALL parents believe their children deserve special treatment, and if accommodations were made for DS, then the door would be open for all the other parents to request changes, etc. I simply had requested he be placed in the appropriate program for his level of development. Silly me. We moved, and now live in an area that recognizes gifted children and now we have a plethora of resources and support available to us. It has been akin to leaving behind a desert and arriving at an oasis! I would have benefitted from an on line support group...for encouragement and ideas. Until we moved here my DS was content, but I was concerned about his developing an attitude of arrogance from his perception of himself, and I have also found that without the appropriate level of challenge and stimulation he has become complacient and lazy, instead of striving for excellence and developing a heart to serve which is what I was striving for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in MI Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It does matter in a lot of little ways that have been difficult for us. It's frustrating that I have no one to talk to in real life about my son's giftedness - not so I can brag about him - but to get advice & find out about opportunities. Also it is hard for ds to find intellectual peers, so he feels different & his self-esteem suffers. The few he has found have been girls & that's tough too, especially now that he's older. He blends in fine with other boys his age - he's just as silly & likes to play - but there is something missing for him. In some ways he is rough and tumble all boy, but he also has a sensitivity that he can't find in other boys. He also has a strong set of values & a strong sense of justice & it's hard to find an environment with shared values, or, if the values are shared, where they are for the most part consistently practiced. I don't bring it up with other parents because in the past I have been met with a blank stare or it's been clear they thought I was bragging. Or my kid is "too sensitive", etc. I think my son is underestimated a lot because he is playful & youthful looking & acting. He doesn't fit the sterotype of a gifted child. I don't think even he knows how gifted he is. In any case, the big frustration for me in not being able to talk about it with others, is the difficulty I've always had finding good advice and counsel. I've only had one friend who understands & her son is older and profoundly gifted in math. (Mine is not profoundly gifted & his gifts lie more in reading & language). Her daughter is more like my son. But she is so busy we dont' get to talk anymore anyway. I feel I am really doing a terrible job of providing opportunities for my son & giving him the education he needs, but I have no one in my circle I can talk to about it. Meaning they would just be kindly reassuring, not understanding what I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 We've done a lot of work with DS on looking at things from the other child's point of view, being a good friend and a good host and 'playing the game' in group situations, and he's got pretty good at it now. But he still plays with his same age peers a bit like an older brother, or polite adult - friendly, engaged, having fun, but not quite one of them. Put him with his intellectual peers, however, and he sparks, chatters, they are full of ideas and theories and it's obvious that in those other interactions he's holding back somewhat. Exactly. As I think I said somewhere else, my kids are perfectly capable of "getting along" with others their own ages. However, it is often more like an adult humoring a child than it is meaningful interaction. Not always, of course. Sometimes, having a common interest is enough to carry on a real conversation, but I can speak from personal experience about how frustrating and tiring it is to constantly be on guard not to say too much or use too many longer words. After too many of those kinds of conversations, I usually have to go home and hide for a while, because I'm exhausted. It's not that I -- or my kids -- "can't" do those things. It's just not especially enjoyable and not something we seek out left to our own devices. However, with kids with whom they click, both of mine are extremely social and bubbly. They have close friends and wide circles of acquaintances and tend to be well-liked. It's just all about finding the right kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Exactly. As I think I said somewhere else, my kids are perfectly capable of "getting along" with others their own ages. However, it is often more like an adult humoring a child than it is meaningful interaction. Not always, of course. Sometimes, having a common interest is enough to carry on a real conversation, but I can speak from personal experience about how frustrating and tiring it is to constantly be on guard not to say too much or use too many longer words. After too many of those kinds of conversations, I usually have to go home and hide for a while, because I'm exhausted. It's not that I -- or my kids -- "can't" do those things. It's just not especially enjoyable and not something we seek out left to our own devices. However, with kids with whom they click, both of mine are extremely social and bubbly. They have close friends and wide circles of acquaintances and tend to be well-liked. It's just all about finding the right kids. And where does one find these kids? :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphina Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 And where does one find these kids? :lurk5: My oldest was very anti-social when he was younger, but now that he is in high school he has blossomed. He is still socially young for his age and it doesn't help that he is one of the youngest in his classes and always has been. I've found though now that he is in high school it's easier for him to find kids like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minuway Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Of course it matters - but I'm not going to be talking about my kids being gifted to random people (except maybe on the internet). It truly matters even into adulthood. My dh is exceptionally gifted and still has issues that a lot of gifted kids (including some of our kids) deal with. They don't just go away. I tested moderately gifted and still have the issues with finding friends I really connect with. Really intense people are just not normal, and they will naturally be on the fringes in a lot of ways. Its important to accept this and move on. But I would never get into a conversation with almost anyone about how anyone in my family is gifted. I don't see what purpose it would serve, and it could too easily be misconstrued as us being arrogant. If pressed, I just say x child is "working above grade level in that area." The only people I've gone into detail with the OE issues are grandparents who stay with the kids when we're out of town, so they can have a better understanding when a kid has a bizarre response to something. Recognizing giftedness and understanding the intensity of a gifted child is incredibly helpful in dealing with them compassionately. Hothousing is a completely different thing - taking a bright or talented child and trying to beat them into a mold that will reflect well on the parent for selfish reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 And where does one find these kids? :lurk5: Both of mine have had good luck at our church. We're Unitarian Universalists, a denomination that seems to have more than its share of bright kids and folks who value education. All of my son's closest friends are from his involvement there. Each of mine also found a kid or two in homeschool groups, when we were still participating in those. And my daughter founds lots of peers during her years in the early entrance college program. It doesn't look like most of those relationships will turn out to be the enduring kind, but it was good for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Difficulties with adroitly handling casual social interactions doesn't distinguish HG+ kids from MG or below ones. There are plenty of HG+ individuals who are incredibly strong in that arena. It does, however, distinguish between kids who are "on the spectrum" from ones that are not. Here's an example: a couple years ago, I witnessed a PG girl befriending some random child she met on the playground. The other girl asked the PG girl what her favorite movie was. The PG girl replied Camp Rock with the Jonas Brothers, which had recently aired on the Disney Channel but was not yet out on DVD. She proceeded to engage in a fairly lengthy conversation about the movie. Surprised at this, since I knew the girl's family did not have cable/satellite, I asked the girl how she knew so much about Camp Rock. Had she watched it at someone else's house? Turns out the answer was no. The girl had simply seen t-shirts with the Camp Rock logo at Target, and while the family was in the checkout line looked at brief article in Tiger Beat or one of the other 'tween fan magazines. She gathered enough information from this article to effectively fake her way through a casual conversation with a peer. I *strongly* disagree with you. I have a 9 y.o. dd who is *definitely no where near the spectrum* who has been in a situation like the girl in your story. She was asked about her favorite music. Now, dd is not PG, but she has been identified as gifted. She is passionate about music, especially classical music. So, dd said she liked Bach. The other child had probably never even heard of Bach. You can imagine the response. Dd didn't get involved with this child. She had no desire to talk about Justin Bieber. Zero. The whole discussion was like kid-repellent for dd. My child has no social issues. She just likes to keep it real. Maybe it's a personality thing? Maybe she is different enough from the typical kid her age on the playground that it's not that much fun to try to relate to them. I'm guessing it's a cost-benefit analysis... and from her point of view the interaction ain't worth the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I *strongly* disagree with you. I have a 9 y.o. dd who is *definitely no where near the spectrum* who has been in a situation like the girl in your story. She was asked about her favorite music. Now, dd is not PG, but she has been identified as gifted. She is passionate about music, especially classical music. So, dd said she liked Bach. The other child had probably never even heard of Bach. You can imagine the response. Dd didn't get involved with this child. She had no desire to talk about Justin Bieber. Zero. The whole discussion was like kid-repellent for dd. That explains why I was one of the few girls at school in middle school who didn't like NKOTB. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetic license Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Really intense people are just not normal, and they will naturally be on the fringes in a lot of ways. Its important to accept this and move on. . especially really intense women... <sigh> ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 She is passionate about music, especially classical music. So, dd said she liked Bach. The other child had probably never even heard of Bach. You can imagine the response. Dd didn't get involved with this child. She had no desire to talk about Justin Bieber. Zero. The whole discussion was like kid-repellent for dd. My child has no social issues. She just likes to keep it real. Maybe it's a personality thing? Maybe she is different enough from the typical kid her age on the playground that it's not that much fun to try to relate to them. I'm guessing it's a cost-benefit analysis... and from her point of view the interaction ain't worth the price. This made me laugh. The first CD my daughter begged me to buy for her was a Mozart collection. She was about five, and it was the first music she owned. Don't get me wrong: Over the years, she liked some kid-type music, too. But she pretty much skipped the teeny-bopper/pop idol phase. And, yes, I think you're right about the cost-benefit thing. My kids, like many highly and profoundly gifted kids, have always had rich inner lives. They have many interests and strong imaginations and often preferred to spend time alone enjoying those interests than trying to engage with someone with whom they didn't share much. I would argue that most adults make the same calculations. How many people do you know how would voluntarily choose to spend social time hanging out with folks who didn't share their interests in books, movies, music, philosophy and who didn't even understand their vocabulary? It's not that adults "can't," but that most of us do not choose to spend our time that way. I honestly don't understand the contemporary need to pathologize these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I remember when I was in middle school, and I was apparently the only girl who wasn't insane over certain blonde-haired, baby-faced, high-pitched pop singers. I was the only one who wasn't gleefully singing "da doo ron ron ron, da doo ron ron" at the 6th grade class picnic. I am not the sort of person who can fake it. For many, many years, I assumed I was just immature and hadn't reached that "he's soooo cute" stage yet (since I was accelerated a year). And I thought maybe my intellect got old before my social awareness could catch up, or something. (On the other hand, I had a crush on my 2nd grade teacher when the other girls were fussing over toys I considered babyish.) I had plenty of interests, but da doo ron ron and babyfaced rock stars just didn't do it for me. Now I begin to understand why. In high school, I graduated early, so for many of my classes, I was two years younger than the rest. Those were the classes where I felt like I fit in. Again, I'm only now beginning to understand why. My kids also like stuff the average kid doesn't like. We went to see Elton John, and afterwards I started playing his greatest hits CD in my car. My girls said, "why is this kind of music harder to sing than the Phantom of the Opera?" (But they are up to the challenge, and have a lot of it memorized now, LOL.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I remember when I was in middle school, and I was apparently the only girl who wasn't insane over certain blonde-haired, baby-faced, high-pitched pop singers. I was the only one who wasn't gleefully singing "da doo ron ron ron, da doo ron ron" at the 6th grade class picnic. I am not the sort of person who can fake it. I'd have been in the corner with you. My first crush was the conductor Michael Tilson Thomas (took me years to figure out why my mother smirked a little when I said I was going to marry him someday). That pretty well cemented my weirdo status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just have to share my excitement. A human being at the school system returned my call! I've only been trying since August. (Granted, I took a few breaks to get other stuff done.) Unfortunately, he mostly gave me another number to call, as he has no power over my kid's acceleration (district boundary stuff). BUT, he was understanding and encouraging. Maybe there's hope after all. He said if the "right people" say they "don't ever do that," instead of telling me the local procedure for acceleration, then I should call the state department of education and push at that level! So there must be some obligation on their part. I stopped pushing for early KG and am now just focused on getting her in 1st grade next fall. Maybe they will like that better since it will save them money. Or will they net more money if she goes to KG? I don't know! So not to totally hijack the thread, but my kid so needs to be with older peers - to hopefully avoid some of the issues mentioned above. (She's already complaining nobody will play with her, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Your instincts about a funding tie-in may be correct. Special needs students (including g/t) can sometimes cause additional funding or support certain jobs within the system. They can be more financial lucrative than an average student due to the support channels associated with their programs. Whether or not that is the case in your school & district really depends on other factors, but it is a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 All over. They seem to have magnets for each other. Join clubs, go out for activities. Well, maybe I need to move to your area, because we aren't finding much. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Well, maybe I need to move to your area, because we aren't finding much. :confused: :iagree: I was going to say the same thing. Location definitely matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 :iagree:I was going to say the same thing. Location definitely matters. Yeah, that's been our experience, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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