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"Being gifted doesn't really matter"


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Have you come across this sentiment? Any time I've cast about for advice from people who are not in the same place, it seems that this is offered.

 

"Just work a little in advance!" It's not so simple. I feel like I'm speaking gibberish, or something.

 

There are issues with a child who feels socially like their peers don't understand them!

 

I'm frustrate. And discouraged.

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Yes. People are always telling me that it doesn't matter and that my kids should just do the same things as everyone else their age. (Yup, not even a little ahead...the SAME.) Also I've been told plenty of times that "my kid can do that too and they are doing great with the same stuff as everyone else". 1) I know for a fact that most people who say this to me do not have kids that can "do that too" and 2) are my kids the exact same as your kids and thus I should be doing the same things as you? 3) are you really paying enough attention/caring enough to see if your kid is really "doing great" or are you just putting them in gov. daycare? I'm sorry for sounding harsh because I really do love so many PS teachers and parents and I have nothing against them and don't think they are bad parents or don't love their kids....but some people (who have talked to me recently) don't seem to have a brain cell left in them. Their kid filling in an addition workbook with the pictures for the numbers beside the problems is not the same as being able to do addition, much less being able to instantly answer almost any addition problem given like my kid. I do not understand how they can try to tell me it's the same other than they are jealous or embarrassed or something. I'm sorry for my rant, but I do feel better. And remember, I'm only talking about some people (that have been very loud at me and abundant recently)...not all. :-)

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Well, if your child was a foot taller than average, nobody would expect him to wear the same size as everyone his age. But giftedness doesn't look like anything. A lot of times, people who don't know our kids intimately might even think they are slower in some areas. Like when my kid was 3 and she would not do anything she was supposed to during dance recitals. (She had stage fright, but it just looked like foolishness.) Or many kids who are quiet because they are thinking too hard about how they should word their answer. So with most people, they just think I want to believe my kid is more special than she really is.

 

Mostly, I only speak of it to other people who have gifted kids, or people who don't have any kids. The tendency to compare and become defensive is too strong.

 

As for whether giftedness matters - well, it matters as far as setting goals and providing an appropriate learning environment. But playing on the playground together, my hope is for my gifted child to blend right in, certainly not to stand out. Perhaps she gravitates toward older kids, but she still needs to interact appropriately with everyone. She still needs time to play, and freedom to make mistakes, and the opportunity to feel frustrated as well as to find some things easy.

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Well, if your child was a foot taller than average, nobody would expect him to wear the same size as everyone his age. But giftedness doesn't look like anything. A lot of times, people who don't know our kids intimately might even think they are slower in some areas. Like when my kid was 3 and she would not do anything she was supposed to during dance recitals. (She had stage fright, but it just looked like foolishness.) Or many kids who are quiet because they are thinking too hard about how they should word their answer. So with most people, they just think I want to believe my kid is more special than she really is.

 

Mostly, I only speak of it to other people who have gifted kids, or people who don't have any kids. The tendency to compare and become defensive is too strong.

 

As for whether giftedness matters - well, it matters as far as setting goals and providing an appropriate learning environment. But playing on the playground together, my hope is for my gifted child to blend right in, certainly not to stand out. Perhaps she gravitates toward older kids, but she still needs to interact appropriately with everyone. She still needs time to play, and freedom to make mistakes, and the opportunity to feel frustrated as well as to find some things easy.

 

:iagree:

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As for whether giftedness matters - well, it matters as far as setting goals and providing an appropriate learning environment. But playing on the playground together, my hope is for my gifted child to blend right in, certainly not to stand out. Perhaps she gravitates toward older kids, but she still needs to interact appropriately with everyone. She still needs time to play, and freedom to make mistakes, and the opportunity to feel frustrated as well as to find some things easy.

 

:iagree: and :lol:

Today on the playground, Button kept taking breaks from chasing to tell his playmate (a casual acquaintance) True Dog Stories we've been reading. Said playmate defected as soon as a more rambunctious opportunity presented itself. sigh.

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Um, I guess I am the dissenting voice. :001_huh: No, I don't think it matters. Give them material that is appropriate to their level for each subject. Challenge them at all times. Do this with every child regardless of IQ and each child will reach his/her full potential.

 

My ds(11) has tested HG, but although he is 6 years ahead in math and science and literature, he is average or perhaps slightly above average in writing and spelling. My point is "who cares." Just give him material that is appropriate for him. I simply tell parents when it comes up that "he is above grade level" in x, and then keep talking.

 

As for the overexcitablities and the perfectionism and the drive, I consider these quirks. Every child has quirks. The child does not have to be gifted to have some issue you as the parent/teach must deal with. A child is ADD or has disgraphia or OCD or dislexia or anxiety etc. So? You meet the child where he or she is at, regardless of IQ.

 

The best conversation (and most honest) that I have ever had about my son's abilities and related issues has been with a parent of a Downs child. We were both teaching children at the extremes, and the difficulties we had with both parenting and education were very very similar. It really opened my eyes.

 

I believe that parents (especially those with younger children) are so surprised by the skill in their gifted child that they start to see it as totally different than what other parents must deal with. I totally disagree with this idea. Most dedicated parents notice "issues" with each and every child regardless of IQ that must be "dealt" with. These issues take time, research, and effort to "fix."

 

Find the common denominator with other parents. It will make for better relationships and more sharing than trying to differential oneself based on the IQ of your children.

 

Ruth in NZ

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Um, I guess I am the dissenting voice. :001_huh: No, I don't think it matters. Give them material that is appropriate to their level for each subject. Challenge them at all times. Do this with every child regardless of IQ and each child will reach his/her full potential.

 

My ds(11) has tested HG, but although he is 6 years ahead in math and science and literature, he is average or perhaps slightly above average in writing and spelling. My point is "who cares." Just give him material that is appropriate for him. I simply tell parents when it comes up that "he is above grade level" in x, and then keep talking.

 

As for the overexcitablities and the perfectionism and the drive, I consider these quirks. Every child has quirks. The child does not have to be gifted to have some issue you as the parent/teach must deal with. A child is ADD or has disgraphia or OCD or dislexia or anxiety etc. So? You meet the child where he or she is at, regardless of IQ.

 

The best conversation (and most honest) that I have ever had about my son's abilities and related issues has been with a parent of a Downs child. We were both teaching children at the extremes, and the difficulties we had with both parenting and education were very very similar. It really opened my eyes.

 

I believe that parents (especially those with younger children) are so surprised by the skill in their gifted child that they start to see it as totally different than what other parents must deal with. I totally disagree with this idea. Most dedicated parents notice "issues" with each and every child regardless of IQ that must be "dealt" with. These issues take time, research, and effort to "fix."

 

Find the common denominator with other parents. It will make for better relationships and more sharing than trying to differential oneself based on the IQ of your children.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

I have to agree with you. I don't think it matters when speaking with other parents. I never talk about levels of learning or where my kids excel to other parents with whom I am trying to develop a relationship...there are plenty of areas where we can connect without me trying to get another parent to understand how much smarter my kids are than theirs.

 

I work with developmentally delayed children so I see the other side of it all the time and, you know what, compared to what some parents are dealing with, our children's giftedness is a blessing. Try handling the emotions and challenges that go with having a child who will never function higher than a 2-3 month old or a child who needs constant medical care because he is on a ventilator through a trach because the muscles of his face is paralyzed and everyone who looks at the child will always "see" how different he is. I could go on and on but the point is, I'd take the challenges I am dealing with over those any day because some day my children will be an independent adults and I won't have to worry about who will take care of them when I am no longer able to.

 

I agree...every child should be taught at the level that fits them best and challenged appropriately and finding the best choices takes research and energy no matter what level the child. Kids of all intelligence levels have quirks...sensory issues, over-excitabilities, feelings of not being understood (just talk to a bunch of pre-teens).

 

We have boards like this where we can discuss things we need to discuss, get suggestions for appropriate curriculum, and see how other parents who've btdt have handled situations. There are just some things that unless you are dealing with them, you cannot understand and most people don't want to understand because it doesn't matter to them, they have enough in their own lives to deal with and are really only interested in finding common ground. Dealing with the challenges of gifted children will only be important to those who are doing it or have done it (and maybe grandparents :001_smile:).

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Um, I guess I am the dissenting voice. :001_huh: No, I don't think it matters. Give them material that is appropriate to their level for each subject. Challenge them at all times. Do this with every child regardless of IQ and each child will reach his/her full potential.

 

Right here you just said it did matter. I know I'm not saying that my kids are some other type of person. I'm just saying that they should be challenged like other kids and I'm being told they shouldn't...I'm being told they should just do the exact same thing as other kids their age, which is not challenging to them. All kids seem to go through the same stages and a lot of people I know are fine with kids being allowed to go at a slower pace and an average pace, but they are extremely against an increased pace. So it does matter to me only in the sense that my kids be allowed the same things other kids get...to work at their own level when so many people don't want to give them that chance or they won't even believe they really are at that level because it's simply not possible due to age according to them.

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Where I am, people either seem to place too much or too little emphasis on it. There's no happy medium. On the one side, you've got the "tiger moms" hothousing in an attempt to create the perfect little "trophy child". On the other, you've got the "all kids are gifted"/"they all even out in 3rd grade" camp that has resulted in our zoned PS not offering any honors classes until 11th grade :glare:

 

Where's the middle ground?

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Well, if your child was a foot taller than average, nobody would expect him to wear the same size as everyone his age. But giftedness doesn't look like anything. A lot of times, people who don't know our kids intimately might even think they are slower in some areas. Like when my kid was 3 and she would not do anything she was supposed to during dance recitals. (She had stage fright, but it just looked like foolishness.) Or many kids who are quiet because they are thinking too hard about how they should word their answer. So with most people, they just think I want to believe my kid is more special than she really is.

 

Mostly, I only speak of it to other people who have gifted kids, or people who don't have any kids. The tendency to compare and become defensive is too strong.

 

As for whether giftedness matters - well, it matters as far as setting goals and providing an appropriate learning environment. But playing on the playground together, my hope is for my gifted child to blend right in, certainly not to stand out. Perhaps she gravitates toward older kids, but she still needs to interact appropriately with everyone. She still needs time to play, and freedom to make mistakes, and the opportunity to feel frustrated as well as to find some things easy.

 

Um, I guess I am the dissenting voice. :001_huh: No, I don't think it matters. Give them material that is appropriate to their level for each subject. Challenge them at all times. Do this with every child regardless of IQ and each child will reach his/her full potential.

 

My ds(11) has tested HG, but although he is 6 years ahead in math and science and literature, he is average or perhaps slightly above average in writing and spelling. My point is "who cares." Just give him material that is appropriate for him. I simply tell parents when it comes up that "he is above grade level" in x, and then keep talking.

 

As for the overexcitablities and the perfectionism and the drive, I consider these quirks. Every child has quirks. The child does not have to be gifted to have some issue you as the parent/teach must deal with. A child is ADD or has disgraphia or OCD or dislexia or anxiety etc. So? You meet the child where he or she is at, regardless of IQ.

 

The best conversation (and most honest) that I have ever had about my son's abilities and related issues has been with a parent of a Downs child. We were both teaching children at the extremes, and the difficulties we had with both parenting and education were very very similar. It really opened my eyes.

 

I believe that parents (especially those with younger children) are so surprised by the skill in their gifted child that they start to see it as totally different than what other parents must deal with. I totally disagree with this idea. Most dedicated parents notice "issues" with each and every child regardless of IQ that must be "dealt" with. These issues take time, research, and effort to "fix."

 

Find the common denominator with other parents. It will make for better relationships and more sharing than trying to differential oneself based on the IQ of your children.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I think both points of view are valid. It just depends on what you mean by, "Does being gifted matter?"

 

Giftedness matters in that it's a part of who your child is and it should be taken into account as you provide an appropriate education. I know that as parents of gifted children it's easy to react strongly to the phrase, "Giftedness doesn't matter," because we've all heard it used as an excuse to deny our children an appropriate education or as a way to minimize their abilities and accomplishments.

 

But . . .

 

Giftedness doesn't matter in terms of basic, good parenting. All parents love their children and all parents should be trying to meet their children where they are regardless of their abilities. We aren't doing ourselves (or our children) any favors when we pat ourselves on the back as if we have a much harder job and much more challenging children than everyone else on the block. That kind of arrogance pushes people away and can elicit hostility toward our children. As parents we have so much in common with each other.

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Right here you just said it did matter. I know I'm not saying that my kids are some other type of person. I'm just saying that they should be challenged like other kids and I'm being told they shouldn't...I'm being told they should just do the exact same thing as other kids their age, which is not challenging to them. All kids seem to go through the same stages and a lot of people I know are fine with kids being allowed to go at a slower pace and an average pace, but they are extremely against an increased pace. So it does matter to me only in the sense that my kids be allowed the same things other kids get...to work at their own level when so many people don't want to give them that chance or they won't even believe they really are at that level because it's simply not possible due to age according to them.

 

I've experienced this even from the parent of a gifted child who graduated recently. School was always easy for him and he scored highly on the test (SAT?) without studying. For some reason his parent/s strongly believed in keeping his academic progress at the same pace of his maturity level so he was as mature as his age mates so he studied at their level. A year ahead was the limit and that only so long as he didn't exhibit a habit of immaturity or else he would have to repeat the grade (same level work) so as to delay graduation. DH and I strongly disagree with binding these two so firmly together as much as we greatly respect these friends. Our only experience is in being the child, not in parenting.

 

In the discussion about this a disbelief was expressed that a child couldn't handle advanced math early (I don't know that my child is mathematically inclined but I know they are out there and felt inclined to argue for them) and made reference to the developmental stages referred to in neoclassical education - grammar, logic, rhetoric - the idea apparently being that regardless of how smart a child is, their brains all develop at closely the same rate. Thinking back now, and having read more about being gifted, I can recognize many common misconceptions expressed in the conversation and I didn't know enough about it at the time to clarify them.

 

There also was the presumption that acceleration = early graduation = leaving home early so they were timing their child's graduation with when he would be mature enough to handle college and had no interest in exploring other options. It's just not all tied together so tightly in our minds.

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that's why it matters. Our third child after coming home from one of his first chess tournaments said, "Mom, it's just so nice to know people that are like me. " I asked for an explanation and he said that most of the time he adjusts his brain to those around him instead of saying what was really on his mind. He was 12 at the time...no wonder he had always been so quiet.

 

Another time last year, he went to two different programs at the nearby University for students interested in math and science. He was fine talking with the other participants, but he came home completely excited after interacting with the grad students. There were people out there like him doing what they loved and were ok.

 

I think what matters as a parent is to give them the stimulation and acknowledgement that every "whatever age" isn't the same...without making them too proud. There will always be someone smarter, faster, more advanced...etc.

 

Our schooling philosophy was always let them soar with what they are gifted in and let them drag along whatever they struggle with. Our Astrophysicist is dyslexic...I didn't have him do foreign language until he got into UCLA. He sometimes needed help spelling his middle name-why would I put him through the nightmare of a foreign language and ruin his high school GPA?!

 

We love the movie Young Tom Edison with Mickey Rooney. His mom's support when he didn't fit in to school or others' expectations is priceless.

 

Cheryl

Edited by CherylG
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I cannot express how sick I am of hearing those kinds of statements.

 

For a really highly/profoundly gifted kid, it matters everywhere, in everything they do. This isn't about "academic achievement," but about the fact that they are simply different from their age peers.

 

I think part of the problem is that most people are acquainted with giftedness only or primarily through programs in schools, where giftedness is defined as being just a little bit smarter than everyone else. Those kids are what I've heard referred to as "pleasantly gifted." They are smart enough that schoolwork comes easily, but not so different that they have trouble relating to their age peers or being comfortable in their own skins.

 

But many of us are raising kids who don't fit that mold. And it does get awfully frustrating trying to fit your square peg of a kid into a world built for round pegs.

 

A story from my own life:

 

My son is 13. We have been attending the same church since before he was walking, and he considers it his second home. His best friendships were made and are still based there. He volunteers for all kinds of things all over the campus and is well-liked by adults and kids alike.

 

All of his friends are one or more years older. Until this year, we've always been able to keep him in classes and groups with his closest buddies. There is a group of four of them that is very close, both at church and out in the world.

 

This year, because there are more kids in that age group attending, they have split the youth group into "middle" and "high school" groups. My son is of the age that is typically 8th grade, but all of his friends will be in the high school group. When the decision to create two groups was announced last spring, both of us immediately expressed our concern that my son would be separated from his friends. Over the months, we have both been repeatedly assured that this wouldn't be a problem. Especially since he is doing 9th grade at home, he was supposed to be able to go into the high school group with his buddies.

 

Last week, the mom of one of the 8th graders, began agitating for her son to also be allowed to move up to the higher group. He's bright, too, she said. And he would be happier in that group, too.

 

Seeing disaster and chaos looming, the religious education director opted to draw a line in the sand and revoke her promises to my son and to me. She decreed that he would, instead, have to stay in the middle school group.

 

My son was devastated. After nearly a week of increasingly unpleasant e-mails with the RE director and our minister, we were told flat out that there was no room for negotiation. The decision was final.

 

After all, my minister said, "There's more to spirituality than academics."

 

Argh.

 

Clearly this is someone who has never done any reading or research on profoundly gifted kids, because it is well established that they are frequently more mature, both emotionally and spiritually, than their age peers. Even the RE director who made the ruling admitted to me in front of other people that my son belongs in that group. But, ultimately, his welfare was sacrificed because some other parent just didn't get it.

 

The upshot of this is that my son will not participate in RE this year at all and that our relationship with our church has been seriously damaged.

 

But, hey, it's fine. I'm just a pushy parent who doesn't understand that "being gifted doesn't matter."

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I cannot express how sick I am of hearing those kinds of statements.

 

For a really highly/profoundly gifted kid, it matters everywhere, in everything they do. This isn't about "academic achievement," but about the fact that they are simply different from their age peers.

 

I think part of the problem is that most people are acquainted with giftedness only or primarily through programs in schools, where giftedness is defined as being just a little bit smarter than everyone else. Those kids are what I've heard referred to as "pleasantly gifted." They are smart enough that schoolwork comes easily, but not so different that they have trouble relating to their age peers or being comfortable in their own skins.

 

But many of us are raising kids who don't fit that mold. And it does get awfully frustrating trying to fit your square peg of a kid into a world built for round pegs.

 

A story from my own life:

 

My son is 13. We have been attending the same church since before he was walking, and he considers it his second home. His best friendships were made and are still based there. He volunteers for all kinds of things all over the campus and is well-liked by adults and kids alike.

 

All of his friends are one or more years older. Until this year, we've always been able to keep him in classes and groups with his closest buddies. There is a group of four of them that is very close, both at church and out in the world.

 

This year, because there are more kids in that age group attending, they have split the youth group into "middle" and "high school" groups. My son is of the age that is typically 8th grade, but all of his friends will be in the high school group. When the decision to create two groups was announced last spring, both of us immediately expressed our concern that my son would be separated from his friends. Over the months, we have both been repeatedly assured that this wouldn't be a problem. Especially since he is doing 9th grade at home, he was supposed to be able to go into the high school group with his buddies.

 

Last week, the mom of one of the 8th graders, began agitating for her son to also be allowed to move up to the higher group. He's bright, too, she said. And he would be happier in that group, too.

 

Seeing disaster and chaos looming, the religious education director opted to draw a line in the sand and revoke her promises to my son and to me. She decreed that he would, instead, have to stay in the middle school group.

 

My son was devastated. After nearly a week of increasingly unpleasant e-mails with the RE director and our minister, we were told flat out that there was no room for negotiation. The decision was final.

 

After all, my minister said, "There's more to spirituality than academics."

 

Argh.

 

Clearly this is someone who has never done any reading or research on profoundly gifted kids, because it is well established that they are frequently more mature, both emotionally and spiritually, than their age peers. Even the RE director who made the ruling admitted to me in front of other people that my son belongs in that group. But, ultimately, his welfare was sacrificed because some other parent just didn't get it.

 

The upshot of this is that my son will not participate in RE this year at all and that our relationship with our church has been seriously damaged.

 

But, hey, it's fine. I'm just a pushy parent who doesn't understand that "being gifted doesn't matter."

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

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I believe that parents (especially those with younger children) are so surprised by the skill in their gifted child that they start to see it as totally different than what other parents must deal with.

 

I just have to say that this is not my experience.

 

When my kids were younger, I kept trying to pretend that their giftedness didn't or shouldn't matter in many situations.

 

On the playground? Why would it matter, right? Can't you just play with the other kids?

 

Well, mine "could," but to them it was like the way an adult enjoys playing with a child. They were excited by ideas that they other kids weren't interested in at all. Heck, when my daughter was in preschool, her classmates used to complain that they didn't understand the words she used.

 

Even so, I obtained a better understanding of my kids' differences as they got older. Especially my daughter, she just seemed to pull farther and farther ahead over the years. When she was five, she was doing mostly second grade work, about two years ahead. But by the time she was 12, she was finishing high school (about six years ahead of schedule).

 

We're not talking about "skill" here. We're talking about very real differences in the way these kids think and the way they see and interact with the world.

 

So, yeah, for many of them, it absolutely matters.

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:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thank you. It has been a really terrible 10 days.

 

My son isn't sleeping well and is having trouble concentrating on school. Yesterday, he had words with his long-time best friend that I'm sure were born of stress and exhaustion.

 

Honestly, as upset as I am by the actual decision and its consequences for my son at church, what bothers me most is the almost casual way it was announced. It betrays a really shocking lack of respect and compassion for any person, let alone a 13-year-old kid who feels things so deeply.

 

I'm ready to walk away from this church entirely, but my kids both want to try to salvage something. So, we will do what we can.

 

This has been one of the top three most trying emotional episodes of my life, mostly because it's so awful to watch what it's doing to my son.

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Thank you. It has been a really terrible 10 days.

 

My son isn't sleeping well and is having trouble concentrating on school. Yesterday, he had words with his long-time best friend that I'm sure were born of stress and exhaustion.

 

Honestly, as upset as I am by the actual decision and its consequences for my son at church, what bothers me most is the almost casual way it was announced. It betrays a really shocking lack of respect and compassion for any person, let alone a 13-year-old kid who feels things so deeply.

 

I'm ready to walk away from this church entirely, but my kids both want to try to salvage something. So, we will do what we can.

 

This has been one of the top three most trying emotional episodes of my life, mostly because it's so awful to watch what it's doing to my son.

 

I bet- and to have it happen at church, where you should be safe and supported. How awful. :(

 

I'm so sorry.

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:crying:

Where I am, people either seem to place too much or too little emphasis on it. There's no happy medium. On the one side, you've got the "tiger moms" hothousing in an attempt to create the perfect little "trophy child". On the other, you've got the "all kids are gifted"/"they all even out in 3rd grade" camp that has resulted in our zoned PS not offering any honors classes until 11th grade :glare:

 

Where's the middle ground?

 

:iagree:

I use to teach in an area of Northern California where there were no longer any gifted programs because "all children are gifted". One of my most gifted third and fourth graders ran into major discipline/expulsion issues by 8th grade. Plus he was miserable most of the time I knew him. He just didn't fit in. It still makes me sad. So yes, Ă¢â‚¬Å“giftedĂ¢â‚¬ does matter.

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Thank you. It has been a really terrible 10 days.

 

My son isn't sleeping well and is having trouble concentrating on school. Yesterday, he had words with his long-time best friend that I'm sure were born of stress and exhaustion.

 

Honestly, as upset as I am by the actual decision and its consequences for my son at church, what bothers me most is the almost casual way it was announced. It betrays a really shocking lack of respect and compassion for any person, let alone a 13-year-old kid who feels things so deeply.

 

I'm ready to walk away from this church entirely, but my kids both want to try to salvage something. So, we will do what we can.

 

This has been one of the top three most trying emotional episodes of my life, mostly because it's so awful to watch what it's doing to my son.

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“To throw a non-swimmer in the deep end of the pool is inhumane. To demand an Olympic swimmer remain in the shallow end until the rest of the class learns to swim is a ludicrous restraint.Ă¢â‚¬ (Unknown)

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

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My husband and I are both geeks. Our family is a bunch of geeks together.

 

I think as homeschoolers, we have the benefit of this mattering *less*. We choose the academics. We choose the activities. We choose our associations more freely. Most of the kids we know are on a soccer teams. My kids are on robotics teams. It's just "their thing".

 

But no doubt.. it causes issues.

 

I notice it more with my youngest, who is more (I guess) traditionally gifted (as opposed to her sister who has amazing gifts combined with learning disabilities.)

 

I will never forget the day she, at age barely-5, was sitting and coloring with the neighbor girl (nearly 6) one spring day.

 

NG: "I LIKE SNOW."

 

DD: *pregnant pause* "Okaaay.."

 

NG: "Snow is fun!"

 

DD: *pause* "Why are you saying that? It doesn't make any sense. It's not winter. There's no snow here now. How is that related to ANYTHING?"

 

NG: "I just LIKE SNOW! Snow is fun. And it's cold!"

 

DD: "Well yeah... that's OBVIOUS." (noting to myself at that point, must monitor dd's attitude before she graduates to smugness and saying obnoxious things like "No ****, Sherlock.")

 

NG: "I can't wait until it snows again."

 

DD: "That's like..." -pauses as she calculates- "Over two hundred days from now. And it might not even snow next year at all. It doesn't always snow in Alabama. We're too far south."

 

NG: *goes back to coloring*

 

And I just watch DD stare at Neighbor Girl like she's an alien with this angry, perplexed expression on her face.

 

Yeah. So it begins. :lol:

 

But every human being has issues with which they need to learn to cope. C'est la vie.

Edited by zenjenn
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I have been humbled by reading this thread because I see my two oldest children going through some of the same things. I have never had an official "gifted" label stuck to my children, but they are certainly cognitively ahead of their peers and my son would probably be called 2E.

 

I have often forced my kids to "go play with other kids!" because I just couldn't understand their hesitation. Recently, I watched a group of three girls (who were friends with dd6- though a year older) play and scream and have fun in the hotel pool while dd6 sat out on the side to happily read a book. My ds8 is similar and has found a connection with a friend only recently due to our allowing him to ride his bike in the afternoon with this one friend (also older than ds8).

 

I have even watched a friend of mine let her children "skip" grades (in Sunday school and Vacation Bible school only), and thought that it was silly to force that. I have no idea if it was best for her kids, but for me it didn't seem the right thing to do. Maybe I need to reconsider their peer groups and stop pushing them into a place they don't fit. It may be that being gifted DOES matter when it comes to social situations.

 

All this to say: thanks for sharing your situations. It has given me a lot to consider.

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In the discussion about this a disbelief was expressed that a child couldn't handle advanced math early (I don't know that my child is mathematically inclined but I know they are out there and felt inclined to argue for them) and made reference to the developmental stages referred to in neoclassical education - grammar, logic, rhetoric - the idea apparently being that regardless of how smart a child is, their brains all develop at closely the same rate.

 

SWB mentioned this topic in one of her lectures (I can't remember if it was maybe the homeschooling the real child one? Or perhaps it was the writing one... I don't know :lol:). She talked about the grammar, logic, and rhetoric stages, but then she mentioned that there are kids who hit the stages early, and those children are called "gifted". So even she acknowledges that all kids don't hit those stages at certain ages, and that the stages may be hit at different times in different subjects.

 

As far as the church situation goes... I've seen an issue from the other end recently that makes it not very black and white to me. Two boys were moving up to a 4th-5th grade class. Both boys are on the lower end of academic abilities, both having LDs. Two girls who were in 5th grade were thinking they'd move up to the 6th-8th grade class. One girl is very smart - gets every question right, memorizes every Bible verse right away, knows every challenge question, etc. She's good. She should really be in the 6th-8th grade class, and she'd probably be the top kid in that class. The other girl needs to be in the 4th-5th grade class, but the two girls wanted to stay together. Now the problem with moving both girls up... The two boys really needed the smart ones there to challenge them and keep them moving ahead. These two boys do better if there's another child in there raising the bar. And the poor boys were thinking that the girls wanted to be in the other class because they didn't want to be in class with these boys (which was partially true :tongue_smilie:). So it was a sad situation all around. In the end, the girls stayed in the lower class, and the boys are doing better than they would have otherwise. The smarter girl is being given extra challenge. The whole situation was really tough for all parties. It's worked out now, and all are happy. But it really isn't a black and white issue. Sometimes the "lower" kids need the role models of the "upper" kids.

 

Of course, I feel for Jenny's son, and think he should have been in the high school group. It sounds like this wasn't a situation where there would be kids lacking in the younger group.

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For a really highly/profoundly gifted kid, it matters everywhere, in everything they do. This isn't about "academic achieve

 

:grouphug: Jenny that really stinks! It really does.

 

We are fortunate that our current church is flexible so both of my kids are currently happy.

 

I understand the social issues though. DS never wanted to go to church at our previous church. He started complaining at 7 years old about the curriculum being too childish; he actually used that word. Despite being in a group of at least 12 boys his age, he never played with any of them or made any friends because he couldn't relate to them. Now that he finally has friends, they are 11-12 years old (he's 9). He has one boy at church that he talks to that is 10 years old. And our neighbor's 14 year old son who was visiting for the summer hung out with DS while he was here. When I ask him about boys his age, he always says that they act too young.

 

DD doesn't have as much difficulty. She loves babies, toddlers, and older girls. Her friends are 12-13; she's 11. Where my son seems to have no ability to play with age mates, my daughter can get along with anyone; she just prefers older. I get a lot of comments from other moms about how mature she is.

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Jenny, that's awful. I'm so sorry. Does that mean that his friends are all going to be going off to youth cons, and he'll be excluded?

 

He will be excluded from anything the high school group does that does not traditionally include the middle school group.

 

One of the biggest traumas for him is the haunted house. Our high school group has always planned and put on a haunted house during the Halloween party. My son -- who loves Halloween more than most other people love Christmas -- has looked forward for years to being in the high school group so that he can participate. Last year, because we didn't have enough high schoolers to make a separate group, we had everyone together, and he was a leading force in brainstorming, planning, building and running the event. This year, he would be stuck in the middle school group again and completely left out of it.

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I guess I'm one of the dissenting voices, in a way. I think all kids need to work at their own level and find peers they can relate to and with whom they can have meaningful conversations. Do I think there's some magical IQ cutoff where, below it you can lump all kids together and above it you need special "gifted" hsing materials and your gifted child couldn't possibly be expected to function in normal society? Nope. Everyone needs to find their niche. When you're "gifted," you definitely have a harder time finding that niche, but I don't think it makes you practically a separate species, the way some people seem to.

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I guess I'm one of the dissenting voices, in a way. I think all kids need to work at their own level and find peers they can relate to and with whom they can have meaningful conversations. Do I think there's some magical IQ cutoff where, below it you can lump all kids together and above it you need special "gifted" hsing materials and your gifted child couldn't possibly be expected to function in normal society? Nope. Everyone needs to find their niche. When you're "gifted," you definitely have a harder time finding that niche, but I don't think it makes you practically a separate species, the way some people seem to.

 

 

There is a certain point that materials need major tweaking. When you have a young student who is ready and craving meatier work gifted materials can help bridge the gap between providing content without getting in to themes that older grade materials have.

 

I can't just huck high school books at my child and say, "Here's the information you want!" Clearly, a lot of high school history and lit is going to be inappropriate for a 7 year old. There's only so many times you can do elementary programs, though.

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I guess I'm one of the dissenting voices, in a way. I think all kids need to work at their own level and find peers they can relate to and with whom they can have meaningful conversations. Do I think there's some magical IQ cutoff where, below it you can lump all kids together and above it you need special "gifted" hsing materials and your gifted child couldn't possibly be expected to function in normal society? Nope. Everyone needs to find their niche. When you're "gifted," you definitely have a harder time finding that niche, but I don't think it makes you practically a separate species, the way some people seem to.

 

There is a certain point that materials need major tweaking. When you have a young student who is ready and craving meatier work gifted materials can help bridge the gap between providing content without getting in to themes that older grade materials have.

 

I can't just huck high school books at my child and say, "Here's the information you want!" Clearly, a lot of high school history and lit is going to be inappropriate for a 7 year old. There's only so many times you can do elementary programs, though.

 

Honestly, finding the right academic materials is the least of our challenges. For us, that's always been the relatively easy part.

 

It's the social stuff that's so much tougher.

 

It's not that we don't expect our kids to "function in normal society." They manage to comb their hair and brush their teeth and talk to people in grocery stores and everything. However, like a lot of highly/profoundly gifted kids, my children have always craved more. They mostly don't get the point of superficial interactions and what we used to call "random kid time." They long for real, meaningful friendships with soul mates and are sad every day when they can't find those people.

 

Interestingly, although we've never done anything to limit their social interactions or restrict them to "gifted groups," my kids always gravitate toward the brightest kids in the room. It's like they have smart radar. Whenever one of mine comes home from an event talking about the great kid they met, I can bet dollars to doughnuts that the kid will be bright. In fact, that group of other kids that represent my son's closest buddies at church is made up entirely of kids who are either identified as highly gifted or taking a full slate of honors/IB/AP classes or both. It's not like they go around comparing IQ's before they will stoop to having a conversation. But the fact is that they feel most comfortable with people who understand and appreciate them.

 

I'm pretty sure most people do.

 

It's just that it's a little harder to find those folks when you're smarter than the majority of people you meet. (That's not intended as a brag. It's just mathematically true.)

 

Edit: Okay, a quick story--

 

A friend of mine from a homeschooling group was over at our house visiting a few years ago. She and her kids were laughing about a recent trip to a pet store, where they had seen a solitary rabbit sharing a cage with a bunch of guinea pigs. She described how the piggies were all running around being piggies, but the rabbit was staring at people going by as though begging someone to get it out of that cage. She, who was also the mother of a profoundly gifted kid, said she suddenly realized how her son felt when she took him to homeschool park days. He was the rabbit in the guinea pig cage.

Edited by Jenny in Florida
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However, like a lot of highly/profoundly gifted kids, my children have always craved more. They mostly don't get the point of superficial interactions and what we used to call "random kid time." They long for real, meaningful friendships with soul mates and are sad every day when they can't find those people.

 

She and her kids were laughing about a recent trip to a pet store, where they had seen a solitary rabbit sharing a cage with a bunch of guinea pigs. She described how the piggies were all running around being piggies, but the rabbit was staring at people going by as though begging someone to get it out of that cage. She, who was also the mother of a profoundly gifted kid, said she suddenly realized how her son felt when she took him to homeschool park days. He was the rabbit in the guinea pig cage.

 

I love the "randmon kid time" term. So true!

 

Has anyone seen the movie "Ratatouille"? It's such a perfect description of what we are talking about. Remy wants to fit in with his rat family and friends, but he also longs to be able to do human things. Plus, he has special abilities that the other rats don't have. It's a great vehicle for prompting discussions with young gifted children.

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Honestly, finding the right academic materials is the least of our challenges. For us, that's always been the relatively easy part.

 

It's the social stuff that's so much tougher.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Unless you are talking about the insatiable thirst to learn more. That hasn't always been easy to deal with - especially before my child could read.

 

But dealing with intensity and more intensity along with perfectionism and anxiety have been our most difficult issues thus far.

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like a lot of highly/profoundly gifted kids, my children have always craved more. They mostly don't get the point of superficial interactions and what we used to call "random kid time."

 

Frankly, I don't think this is a giftedness issue per se but rather a 2E issue. It's not the HG+ that's the problem (I know tons of HG+ people who are very adept in social situations) but rather being at least somewhat "on the spectrum". Maybe not enough for a formal diagnosis of Asperger's, but enough to cause difficulties with the kid equivalent of cocktail party chatter.

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Frankly, I don't think this is a giftedness issue per se but rather a 2E issue. It's not the HG+ that's the problem (I know tons of HG+ people who are very adept in social situations) but rather being at least somewhat "on the spectrum". Maybe not enough for a formal diagnosis of Asperger's, but enough to cause difficulties with the kid equivalent of cocktail party chatter.

 

:iagree: Both my kids do well in a variety of social situations and generally enjoy peers. If they could hand pick friends, they'd probably pick GT, extroverted kids their own age with similar interests. In some GT specific settings, I almost feel like we don't fit because my kids don't struggle socially and aren't quite quirky enough.

 

So that said, homeschooling has been a great thing for us. It has eliminated much stress about having gifted kids. So yes, it's a piece of my kids. But it feels like an afterthought while homeschooling. I do definitely keep it in mind when I'm picking outside classes for them to participate in and that has required some experimentation.

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It matters as much as height and weight and blond hair and blue eyes. It is a fundamental part of being the person that they are. It matters.

 

:iagree:

 

It is as serious as any other issue that impacts education. No one will say to a child who is having serious trouble reading...it does not matter, work a little behind. :glare:

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Frankly, I don't think this is a giftedness issue per se but rather a 2E issue. It's not the HG+ that's the problem (I know tons of HG+ people who are very adept in social situations) but rather being at least somewhat "on the spectrum". Maybe not enough for a formal diagnosis of Asperger's, but enough to cause difficulties with the kid equivalent of cocktail party chatter.

 

I wonder if it's just that the aforesaid kids just don't have the BS-tolerance level we adults have, so they don't put up with cocktail chatter, or as Jenny calls it, "random kid time." They just want to "keep it real."

 

Here's one more more :grouphug: for you, Jenny. I was that child in middle/high school who was painfully out of place with age-mates. I finally found my niche when I was about 14 or so and had a group of adults who shared my interests and passions. It's excruciating when you are consistently underestimated and forced into social situations with those who you don't really belong with. Fortunately, at the time, our Sunday School allowed me to be a teacher at 14 and I went on to write curriculum and texts for them as well. If I hadn't had that outlet, it would have been very painful to be forced into a class with others my age.

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I wonder if it's just that the aforesaid kids just don't have the BS-tolerance level we adults have, so they don't put up with cocktail chatter, or as Jenny calls it, "random kid time." They just want to "keep it real."

 

Difficulties with adroitly handling casual social interactions doesn't distinguish HG+ kids from MG or below ones. There are plenty of HG+ individuals who are incredibly strong in that arena. It does, however, distinguish between kids who are "on the spectrum" from ones that are not.

 

Here's an example: a couple years ago, I witnessed a PG girl befriending some random child she met on the playground. The other girl asked the PG girl what her favorite movie was. The PG girl replied Camp Rock with the Jonas Brothers, which had recently aired on the Disney Channel but was not yet out on DVD. She proceeded to engage in a fairly lengthy conversation about the movie.

 

Surprised at this, since I knew the girl's family did not have cable/satellite, I asked the girl how she knew so much about Camp Rock. Had she watched it at someone else's house? Turns out the answer was no. The girl had simply seen t-shirts with the Camp Rock logo at Target, and while the family was in the checkout line looked at brief article in Tiger Beat or one of the other 'tween fan magazines. She gathered enough information from this article to effectively fake her way through a casual conversation with a peer.

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Difficulties with adroitly handling casual social interactions doesn't distinguish HG+ kids from MG or below ones. There are plenty of HG+ individuals who are incredibly strong in that arena. It does, however, distinguish between kids who are "on the spectrum" from ones that are not.

 

Here's an example: a couple years ago, I witnessed a PG girl befriending some random child she met on the playground. The other girl asked the PG girl what her favorite movie was. The PG girl replied Camp Rock with the Jonas Brothers, which had recently aired on the Disney Channel but was not yet out on DVD. She proceeded to engage in a fairly lengthy conversation about the movie.

 

Surprised at this, since I knew the girl's family did not have cable/satellite, I asked the girl how she knew so much about Camp Rock. Had she watched it at someone else's house? Turns out the answer was no. The girl had simply seen t-shirts with the Camp Rock logo at Target, and while the family was in the checkout line looked at brief article in Tiger Beat or one of the other 'tween fan magazines. She gathered enough information from this article to effectively fake her way through a casual conversation with a peer.

 

 

But doesn't it seem sort of tragic to never be able to have a conversation about your true interests because you need to have an average social exchange? In fact, I find the need to change my discourse to this degree insulting to the other person. I can do this, and I do it in day to day life. It strikes me as incredibly patronizing. I do it, but I don't enjoy it. Not enjoying it doesn't put me on the spectrum. It means I'd like to be able to tell the truth when someone asks me a question in casual conversation.

 

It is a good skill to have. I wish it wasn't quite so crucial and didn't need to be quite so well-developed.

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I cannot state emphatically enough how much it matters. It isn't just about learning quicker, although it would have been extremely helpful to me if I had been challenged at an appropriate level prior to college. It is so much deeper than that. I would have made some very different choices from choosing a college to career to other significant events in my life if I had understood what it meant to me to be gifted. And that it really is so much more than how I learn, but it is who I am. I firmly believe that reading a book like this one http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Teens-Guide-Living-Intensity/dp/1935067001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316713298&sr=8-1 and Living with Intensity when I was a little older would have made a big difference.

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Where I am, people either seem to place too much or too little emphasis on it. There's no happy medium. On the one side, you've got the "tiger moms" hothousing in an attempt to create the perfect little "trophy child". On the other, you've got the "all kids are gifted"/"they all even out in 3rd grade" camp that has resulted in our zoned PS not offering any honors classes until 11th grade :glare:

 

Where's the middle ground?

 

CW, I'm curious. Based on this comment above (and in other threads) you seem to be noticeably negative regarding 'hothousing' and I would love to know why. Forgive me if I missed your opinion on this elsewhere. I value your opinions here. I would love to know how accelerating/hothousing is different from old-fashioned teaching the child at his level -- allowing the child to blossom and grow at his/her unique pace -- regardless of age/grade.

 

Are you implying that accelerating one's dc is a result of a parent's desire for a trophy? For external approval? Could it be perhaps that enthusiastic, committed parents, Tiger Moms, simply want to give their dc the education of their own dreams? Is that not our ultimate collective goal here at TWTM forum?

 

We strategically planned the education of our older dc. We knew what we wanted and how to get there, regardless of time or cost. Is that a 'negative' in some circles?

 

:bigear:

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