Help!! DH is a complete slob

[KristinaBreece]

I advise you read Lysistrata.

 

:rofl:

[Mrs Mungo]

If my husband was the one who was home all day every day and he wanted the house kept a certain way, yes. I would expect him to be the one to keep things to his standards.

 

1. Being a homeschool mom does not mean one is home all day. I know I'm not.

 

2. My main 3 duties are: schooling, cooking and volunteer work (this last one dh derives benefit from).

 

I don't have hours every day to spend picking up after an adult. Nobody cleaning messes is not an option as what is being described would be an unsafe environment for kids.

 

Sure, I could nag him about it, but the result would be dirty underwear on the floor, dishes on the night stand and plenty of nagging. I'd rather just clean up.

 

Nowhere did I suggest nagging. I suggested seeking professional help and marital counseling. MFLCs are social workers paid by the military to help families sort through issues. There are also counselors and chaplains through whom you can seek counseling. These are free for military people, so there are no cost worries. The MFLCs will meet with you on an anonymous basis, there is no paper trail for the military member to worry about (unless there is abuse or something like that). There is no good reason to not seek help, imo.

[Kirch]

So...if the wife was ADD and didn't bother to pick up after herself would you all say, "give up, you are never going to change, make your husband do the cleaning?"

 

I don't think the point is that he can't change, just that *she* can't change *him*. If the wife was ADD and was posting about the situation here, I assume it would be because she wanted to change her habits. In that case, I think we'd see a whole thread full of ideas and advice. If she wasn't bothered by it and it was her husband posting, I'd imagine the thread would be pretty similar to this one.

 

Bottom line--the only person in this situation that the OP can control is the OP. The point the pp's are making is that he's not going to change unless he's self-motivated to do so. Unless her dh genuinely wants to change and is doing something to get started in that direction, really her only options are to nag him about it, put up with the mess, or clean it herself. He has already shown that he doesn't respond do gentle reminders or requests (at least not long-term).

[Mom in High Heels]

Thank you all for your responses. There are a few I want to touch on.

FTR, though, I am NOT bashing him. I'm honestly seeking help. I don't care if you can see my blog and who we are. There are no names there and really, since I have a blog, I know what I'm putting out and who can read it. Oh, and to the pp who asked, yes, I did comment once about him being a pack rat.

 

Does he have a spot in the house that is all his? A room, garage? Someplace he can keep his mess? If not, make a space for him and his stuff. As for the clothes, I would just wash them and put them away, your a house wife, it's part of the job.

 

He HAS a man cave. It is upstairs on the 4th floor of our building (we live on the 3rd floor). The rooms up there used to be for live in maids back when military personnel had maids (lucky ducks). Most people use theirs for storage, but we mad dh a man cave so he would have his own space. He can do his hobbies up there, but like many ADD/ADHD people, he has NO concept of time and will say he's going up for a few minutes and 4 hours later he's still there, not realizing how much time has passed and he misses our entire evening. Because of this, he's been slowly moving his hobbies downstairs. BTW, his man cave is clean. I *know* he's capable of cleaning up if it's important to him. He just can't see the everyday messes.

BTW, I think it's wildly unfair that men get to have rooms that are "just for them." I'd love to have a space that is mine where no one bothers me and I can do whatever I want with it. Yeah, sure, I have "the whole house" but it's not like there is any one place that is mine.

 

Try getting another hamper and putting it right where he drops the clothes.

 

SNIP OUT A BUNCH OF STUFF TO COMMENT ON THESE

 

 

Can you hang a hook right by the door for him and meet him at the door and remind him to hang the jacket there?

 

 

One of the laundry hampers is on this side of the bed. The other is right next to the shower, where he gets undressed before showering. His clothes end up on the floor next to both of them. I've actually asked why he can't just put them in the hamper instead and he says he just doesn't think about it.

 

And there are hooks (many of them) right as you come in the door. He walks past them (I'm frequently feeding the baby or making dinner when he comes home and can't rush there to greet him) and puts his jacket on the back of the closest chair, which happens to be Indy's. It drives Indy crazy and he does move the jacket to JB's chair every night.

 

Would he consider knitting? Much more contained and very good for busy fingers.

 

He went through a knitting phase about 3 years ago. We have several nice handmade scarves and a box of unused yarn. Actually, I finally tossed it a few months ago. Another issue with ADD/ADHD is that he gets bored with hobbies very quickly, so we have the remnants of so much stuff it's not funny. Here are a few of his hobbies

 

For music, he has 2 drum kits (1 standard, 1 electronic), 4 guitars, 1 bass, 2 amps, 3 or 4 pieces of recording/mixing equipment, a piano, bagpipes, saxophone and a flute. And he wants a violin (Indy's is 1/2 size and too small for JB).

He likes to rebuild computers, so there are boxes of hard drives, keyboards, wires, cables, etc. He also likes to take electronics apart to see how they work, so there are bits and bobs of various things he's taken apart that are in storage totes.

He draws, so there are drawers and shelves full of drawing supplies.

Woodcarving. Sigh. So much stuff for that. In addition to the carving, he likes to sand and refinish old instruments, so there is sand paper, stain, oil, brushes, rags, etc.

There's also been knitting, coffee filter flower making, clay sculpting, basket weaving (yep) and sports outside the house (soccer, golf, softball) and all that equipment he *had* to have is now gathering dust in the basement. This barely scratches the surface.

 

Is he like this at work? I can't imagine too many employers putting up with this behavior.

 

See below.

 

He can't be, he is in the military. That means he *can* follow through, he just doesn't want to.

 

He works on his own in his own little office and nobody bothers him unless it's for a meeting. His office is neat though and he's responsible for billions of dollars of equipment and keeps all the paperwork for that neat and organized.

 

So...if the wife was ADD and didn't bother to pick up after herself would you all say, "give up, you are never going to change, make your husband do the cleaning?"

 

 

1. Being a homeschool mom does not mean one is home all day. I know I'm not.

 

2. My main 3 duties are: schooling, cooking and volunteer work (this last one dh derives benefit from).

 

I don't have hours every day to spend picking up after an adult. Nobody cleaning messes is not an option as what is being described would be an unsafe environment for kids.

 

 

 

Nowhere did I suggest nagging. I suggested seeking professional help and marital counseling. MFLCs are social workers paid by the military to help families sort through issues. There are also counselors and chaplains through whom you can seek counseling. These are free for military people, so there are no cost worries. The MFLCs will meet with you on an anonymous basis, there is no paper trail for the military member to worry about (unless there is abuse or something like that). There is no good reason to not seek help, imo.

 

Thank you for the above. I'm really surprised by how many of you have said "just clean it up." I didn't get married to be a maid. He's a grown man and I shouldn't have to run behind him like a mom picking up things as they fall. Heck, I don't do that for my own kids. Indy knows he'd better clean up or I'll confiscate whatever he leaves out and I may or may not give it back. Of course he's messy, he's a kid, but he knows that his dirty laundry goes in the hamper, how to put his dirty dishes in the sink (something else JB has a problem with) and that some things aren't meant to be done inside.

And FTR, there have been plenty of times when I've cleaned up (and I mean everything) and he comes behind me like a tornado and messes it all up before I even have the chance to enjoy the cleanliness. If he would at least try to pick up when he can clearly see I've made a huge effort to clean it up (and he can tell, he makes comments when it's really clean), that would be different, but he just doesn't. I'm tired. I have more stuff to do than clean up after him.

I did put my foot down last night though about the wood carving. I was sitting on the sofa and got up to get something to drink. I stepped on some shavings and they HURT. I told him I'd had enough and that this could not go on in the house any more. He got upset, but I was firm. The baby is on the floor every day and there cannot be wood shavings for him to roll on. JB swore up and down he had cleaned them up (when I tell him, he will sweep the immediate area, but not anywhere else), but since I had evidence that he had apparently missed some, he couldn't argue that there were bits he missed. No more wood working in the house! I

[Greenmama2]

I'm the same way. I have severe ADD. I promise, he isn't doing it on purpose..the not seeing stuff. I hate being like this. I honestly don't see it.

 

That said, don't pick up after him. The box idea is good but that still feels maid-like. He may never see it and you may have to live with that but don't be the maid. Good luck.

 

My SO is great at cleaning and I'm clearly...not. He has had to reduce his standards. I do my best and always try to get it together. But, he knows it isn't ever going to be exactly what he wants or else he will have to pick up after me all the time.

see, this is me. Which was fine pre-little people when we were both working. But fast forward to me the breastfeeding/homeschooling SAHM and DH (much neater than me) working more hours with a longer commute. Our house is well, you don't want to know :001_huh:

[KidsHappen]

Wow, I can not believe this is still here. I read it as quickly as I could last night because I was sure it would be deleted right away.

[Renee in NC]

So...if the wife was ADD and didn't bother to pick up after herself would you all say, "give up, you are never going to change, make your husband do the cleaning?"

 

YES!

 

:party:

 

Ok, not really. I do think that there comes a line of responsibilty here. He doesn't change because he doesn't have to - he doesn't do it, wife wants it done, so she does it. I bet he *isn't* like this at work because it isn't acceptable and no one is cleaning up behind him.

 

It most certainly is possible for someone with ADD to keep up with cleaning and anything else, but they have to systematically work at it, which means wanting to do it. Otherwise, it isn't even in their field of vision.;)

 

The problem is that one person (the OP) wants a certain standard in the home. The other person (her dh) doesn't care. So, there are two options: change the expectations or own your preference. My dh never gets his dirty clothes to the hamper. If I don't get up and fix his breakfast and lunch, he just won't eat. I get up at 5am every morning to make his food because it is important to me, so I can't be bitter about it. I pick up his clothes and wash them because it isn't a big deal.

 

However, the OP is bitter about some things and I think it is more than clothes on the floor or shavings in the living room. It is important that he do these things because it would make her happy. Sometimes people feel uncared for or unloved if others aren't willing to do things for them. I would focus on that aspect instead of being upset over falling over stuff.

[Trish]

My best friend who is married to a man with ADHD (medicated but still not terribly functional in many ways) has been known to carry a large box around the house and put all of her dh's stray things in it, then place it on his side of the bed. She gave up hope of changing his ways long ago, but this helps her sanity a bit.

 

Good idea! I think you married a Messy, so that isn't going to change unless he has some epiphany that causes HIM to want to change it. So you work with it. Just pretend clothing is like "dust" or "rocks" that have fallen in your house and toss things in strategically-placed containers.

 

No help on the wood shavings. I think I would've called "safety issue" on the wood-working before it even began, but if there hasn't been a safety problem in 16 years, you're going to have a tough time maintaining that argument.

 

Sorry! Not sure if it's harder to be married to a slob or a neat freak.

 

:grouphug:

[Mom in High Heels]

Wow, I can not believe this is still here. I read it as quickly as I could last night because I was sure it would be deleted right away.

 

Why? I haven't bashed my dh at all. I haven't said he's a horrible person or been mean about it or anything. People come on here ALL THE TIME asking for help with a problem they're having. Why can't I?

 

No help on the wood shavings. I think I would've called "safety issue" on the wood-working before it even began, but if there hasn't been a safety problem in 16 years, you're going to have a tough time maintaining that argument.

 

The woodworking just started recently. When I told him last night that there could be no more wood working in the house, one of the the things I cited WAS safety. Indy and I have both stepped on countless wood shavings and it hurt. We generally don't wear shoes in the house, but even in socks, it's painful. I also told him that Han Solo is on the floor part of every day (on a play mat for now), but will eventually be moving around and shavings on the floor was not acceptable.

[Renee in NC]

Why? I haven't bashed my dh at all. I haven't said he's a horrible person or been mean about it or anything. People come on here ALL THE TIME asking for help with a problem they're having. Why can't I?

 

 

 

The woodworking just started recently. When I told him last night that there could be no more wood working in the house, one of the the things I cited WAS safety. Indy and I have both stepped on countless wood shavings and it hurt. We generally don't wear shoes in the house, but even in socks, it's painful. I also told him that Han Solo is on the floor part of every day (on a play mat for now), but will eventually be moving around and shavings on the floor was not acceptable.

 

I would just get him a box to shave into.

 

As to the husband bashing - no you aren't doing that. My experience, however, has been that *any* thread regarding a husband and any faults he has is usually deleted.

[elfgivas]

I honestly would just do his laundry for him and put it away. I might not advice a young wife that because I would figure it just enables a man to be lazy and dependent. But 17 years into a marriage, I don't think doing it for him will make him worse. He' already about as 'worse' as it gets. I'd just take over the laundry and decide that I am not doing it for him, I am doing it for ME because I like my bedroom to be tidy.

 

:iagree:

 

and i'd work at finding a new frame for it. ie. the thoughts i put around the reality, because it doesn't sound like the reality is likely to change much.

 

for example: "some men drink too much, some men chase women, some men do woodworking in the living room.... i got the good end of the deal."

 

not that it doesn't make you crazy, not that it won't make you crazy, but there is a perspective to it that may help it not make you quite so crazy....

 

:grouphug:

ann

[Jumping In Puddles]

I'm glad this thread hasn't been deleted, actually it's been quite helpful!

 

Maybe her dh will appreciate the advice given more than he would appreciate being served divorce papers. :tongue_smilie:

[Crissy]

1. Being a homeschool mom does not mean one is home all day. I know I'm not.

 

I think most of us are relating this issue to our own home environment. I certainly am, and I am usually home all day.

 

 

 

Nowhere did I suggest nagging.

 

I wasn't quoting you.

[Trish]

I think one of the most helpful philosophical things I have seen come out of this thread is that our spouse is not messy on purpose, or to be mean, but rather are either brought up that way or are wired that way. So rather than look at it as a hurtful thing, it is just a Reality Thing.

 

For example, some men have easy commutes. Others commute an hour-plus each way. Do the long commuters get extra credit? Not really. I would look at "socks on the floor" as a version of a longer commute. Just the reality that is there in order to get the job done.

 

Doesn't mean you have to accept wood-working in the house, though. I would think there'd be plenty of reasons to be more insistent on this point, the baby being the primary one. Emergency room visits are expensive!

[Merry]

In the book, "Sidetracked Executives", the author said that when she used to work at a desk in an office, the desk was super clean and all the papers and stuff were very organized. She was a very neat and focused worker. But at home, she was the opposite. I no longer have the book, so I'm not sure why she was that way but I think it was because the structure was external and imposed on her at the office but at home, she had no external structure to keep her neat and organized. So, she came up with the card file system to provide the external structure for her housekeeping. I have no idea how this could be applied in your situation though....maybe one of the Messies books will have ideas? I think one of them deals with living with a Messie. Or maybe outside counseling will help?

[Slartibartfast]

 

 

He went through a knitting phase about 3 years ago. We have several nice handmade scarves and a box of unused yarn. Actually, I finally tossed it a few months ago. Another issue with ADD/ADHD is that he gets bored with hobbies very quickly, so we have the remnants of so much stuff it's not funny. Here are a few of his hobbies

 

For music, he has 2 drum kits (1 standard, 1 electronic), 4 guitars, 1 bass, 2 amps, 3 or 4 pieces of recording/mixing equipment, a piano, bagpipes, saxophone and a flute. And he wants a violin (Indy's is 1/2 size and too small for JB).

He likes to rebuild computers, so there are boxes of hard drives, keyboards, wires, cables, etc. He also likes to take electronics apart to see how they work, so there are bits and bobs of various things he's taken apart that are in storage totes.

He draws, so there are drawers and shelves full of drawing supplies.

Woodcarving. Sigh. So much stuff for that. In addition to the carving, he likes to sand and refinish old instruments, so there is sand paper, stain, oil, brushes, rags, etc.

There's also been knitting, coffee filter flower making, clay sculpting, basket weaving (yep) and sports outside the house (soccer, golf, softball) and all that equipment he *had* to have is now gathering dust in the basement. This barely scratches the surface.

 

 

 

:001_huh:

 

I would ask him not to bring anything else into the house unless he gets rid of a chunk of that stuff. I have a ton of musicians and several drummers on my FB, one of them is a band director for a major university, he has ONE drum set. ONE. I know this because he talked about how he got a new one and his wife (who is also a drummer) made him get rid of the old one. :lol:

 

 

I did put my foot down last night though about the wood carving. I was sitting on the sofa and got up to get something to drink. I stepped on some shavings and they HURT. I told him I'd had enough and that this could not go on in the house any more. He got upset, but I was firm. The baby is on the floor every day and there cannot be wood shavings for him to roll on. JB swore up and down he had cleaned them up (when I tell him, he will sweep the immediate area, but not anywhere else), but since I had evidence that he had apparently missed some, he couldn't argue that there were bits he missed. No more wood working in the house!

 

High five!!!

Edited September 14, 2011 by Sis

[missmoe]

I've only read the first page of this thread so perhaps it's taken a different turn since then--if so-ignore my advice.

 

I endorse the box method. I have a large basket for my husband's paperwork--I drop everything related to paper in there. I have a basket for stuff he unloads from his pockets at the end of the day. I have boxes for his various hobbies. I have a few different boxes in our room for various things. I drop stuff in the boxes each morning--not enjoyable, but it saves my sanity.

 

As to the wood carving---I currently have a bike in pieces propped up against the back of my couch---so I'm not doing well on that end!

 

Perhaps your ds could hang up dad's coat at the end of each day as a way to thank dad for his hard day at work.

 

My sanity has been saved by changing my attitude. I know my husband works so hard to fight against his ADD all day at work that he needs to just let go once he gets home. So I have learned to let go of the frustrations each day. He's not going to change so that leaves only me to change.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I know how hard it is, if that helps.

[livingnlearning]

I've lived this too, still am to some degree. My DH had some sort of epiphany and started doing better. I know it didn't start after a fight but I think he saw how badly the mess was affecting me. So in one way, he's doing a lot better.

 

But in another he's not cured and we still have issues. I had to give up "zones"-he has a garage area that is all his and it looks like an industrial hoard. It's scary and ugly but I never go there-if I need something that is out there I send one of the kids or he goes, I just pretend it doesn't exist. I have some zones in the house too, his side of the bed (out of the way so I can ignore it), his closet. I just make it so I can avoid them and not have people see them.

 

Right now we have scraps from a wood project in the yard and yes, in the livingroom so I totally get you there! I have found with my DH that if I ask nicely and directly he'll clean it up. Even if I'm screaming on the inside I put on my fakey nicey kid voice and ask him to pick up after himself and there he'll go. So asking for the obvious and hiding my anger has helped me also.

 

And I've had to accept the obvious. You have a laundry problem and it's always going to be there. I have one too, he does the same with doing his own laundry and doesn't put it away. He works out of two laundry baskets of unfolded clothes and the dirties are on the bathroom floor. But I'm able to kick/shove his dirty clothes into the bottom of a linen closet so they are out of my sight and way. Maybe there is a way that you can kick his clothes under the bed or shove them into a heap or do some deliberate laundry basket placement that he can't avoid. He's not going to do it right but maybe there is a way you can make it acceptable. tolerable. Mine leaves beer cans everywhere-you can imagine how attractive that is! All over the property and house. As unfair as it is, it's one of the kids' chores to pick them up for me. They then help me police him b/c if affects us all. We don't do it with a mean spirit but it's no less unfair or fun for just me to be picking up after someone else that much. So see the problem and instead of wishing it would go away, find a solution that fits the reality.

 

It's very very difficult. I'm lucky I have kids that are drawn more to organization than to be messy like he is otherwise I would be in a real tight spot. And my kids are old enough to compensate for him too.

 

Good luck-you can see here that you aren't alone, if that's any consolation.

[LostSurprise]

Its interesting to see how much of an issue this is...especially with ADD/ADHD spouses.

 

We've been working on this for 14 years, and my situation is similar to yours. At one point I was where you are, insisting that he act in a 'normal' way without completely understanding what he's going through.

 

Each of us has a different tolerance level. We each come to peace with it a different way. For some that might mean punitive measures (not doing chores, etc) for others it might mean doing everything for them, and there is every compromise in between. You have to find what works for your family.

 

The first thing that helped me was leading many conversations about this, and letting him know how I was frustrated and what it meant to me. There is no change if the other person doesn't a) know something is bothering you and b) want to find a way to make things work. One of the best ways to do this is when you are calm, not when its all built up inside of you. Point out logical problems with his behavior for others in his life. Don't label or blame. Let him know that 'I'll change' type answers are not working for you and brainstorm alternatives to help him get things in order. When it doesn't work, try again with another plan. Show respect for him and he will be more likely to respect your needs.

 

Two, realize that all of this isn't as easy for them. Unless everything in your life supports neat behavior, it is extremely hard to him to change. It's even harder to change when you have no internal motivation to do so. Your occasional annoyance doesn't affect his behavior because it doesn't intrude on his thoughts every moment.

 

Three, create a system which makes it easier for him to do what you want. Woodworking? Create an easy-clean station. Laundry? Get him 2 baskets or trade off chores with him where you pick his up and he does X for you. Clutter? Box it and after 2 weeks ask him to go through it with you (if he doesn't let him know you'll donate/junk it after 3 tries). Decluttering? Pull up a box every 2-3 days and ask him to put it away. Daily clutter? Have a scheduled time where everyone cleans for 15 minutes.

 

Four, have an island of clean away from the whole family. You need the man cave. Seriously. When things annoy you, go there to relax in a calming place.

 

Five, reminders--verbal or written--are a necessary component to creating neater habits. You will probably feel angry about this, but he has no internal system to regulate his impulses. You need an outside system. This will either be you or you and a written organization system.

 

The best thing I ever did to make our home a neater, more comfortable place for both of us was to start asking my dh to do things as soon as they needed doing.

 

"Could you pick that up?"

"Please put that away when you're done." (said right as he was finishing)

"If you could do that right now? I need to get in there."

"I think that's bothering so-and-so, could you take care of it?"

 

At this point, I pick up laundry and telephone books without the intense anger I used to feel. Other stuff goes in a box on his work table. I ask for what I need when I see it, and out of respect for me he usually does this right away. He has a job board he created with kanban and we look through that together. He takes on additional 'dirty jobs' on the weekend to make up for some of the daily wear-and-tear I go through.

[Anne in CA]

Since the thread is still here, lol, I will bring up something that I didn't see anyone else bring up. The mess is probably some sort of psycological security blanket for OP's dh since he was brought up this way. I was thinking this yesterday and then this morning I read that he follows her cleaning sprees by instantly destroying her efforts. He probably is not being malicious, but he has a need for this enviornment and needs get met.

 

I keep my living room nice so I can always have a cup of coffee in a clean room. DH would try to make a rats nest in this room but I would clean it up the second he went to work by just throwing his stuff in a fancy box with a lid and keeping it behind a chair. When the box got full I would dump it in his shop, rinse repeat. At one point he got some ugly cheap shelves and put all this stuff that he almost never used on the shelves in the living room. He did this while I was at work very secretly. He was trying to find a way to keep the mess out where he could see it. We had WWIII and I told him on Monday morning when he went to work those shelves would be gone and the stuff would be in the trash. He grudgingly left the living room alone, but I still have to round up his stuff.

 

Dh's mother does the same thing when she comes to visit. She makes several "rats nests" in every room. I tell her for my own sanity they must be combined and although she finds it unreasonable, she does it. But the need for this sort of thing is deep in both of them and they can't help it. Therapy would be good, and may be necessary if it gets worse, but I can't see most people going to therapy for anything they don't view as a problem. I would have to make it a problem and he would only go to therapy to appease me.

 

I really do think that at the root of this OP's dh feels that he must mess up the house to make it feel like home.

[Mrs Mungo]

Its interesting to see how much of an issue this is...especially with ADD/ADHD spouses.

 

But, I think ADD is largely being used as an excuse in this case. Yes, it can make it hard to stay on task, but it is far from impossible. Again, I'm ADD. My dd with ADD is the neatest of all of my kids. She applies her hyperfocus to cleaning her room when she is supposed to.

 

Things that help me stay on track: lists, listening to music or books on my ipod while cleaning, talking on the phone while cleaning.

 

Three, create a system which makes it easier for him to do what you want. Woodworking? Create an easy-clean station. Laundry? Get him 2 baskets or trade off chores with him where you pick his up and he does X for you. Clutter? Box it and after 2 weeks ask him to go through it with you (if he doesn't let him know you'll donate/junk it after 3 tries). Decluttering? Pull up a box every 2-3 days and ask him to put it away. Daily clutter? Have a scheduled time where everyone cleans for 15 minutes.

 

Four, have an island of clean away from the whole family. You need the man cave. Seriously. When things annoy you, go there to relax in a calming place.

 

Five, reminders--verbal or written--are a necessary component to creating neater habits. You will probably feel angry about this, but he has no internal system to regulate his impulses. You need an outside system. This will either be you or you and a written organization system.

 

I think these are mostly good suggestions.

 

These are stairwell apartments in Germany. Both of the apartments like this that we lived in had a huge living/dining area right when you walk in the house. There is no hiding messes from neighbors or friends if he's carving wood in the living room. That's unfair to the family, imo. Is that what your apartment is like, OP?

 

Maybe implementing a before-bed tidy for *everyone* would be a good move? Say that you want it neat and tidy for the morning.

 

Since the thread is still here, lol, I will bring up something that I didn't see anyone else bring up. The mess is probably some sort of psycological security blanket for OP's dh since he was brought up this way. I was thinking this yesterday and then this morning I read that he follows her cleaning sprees by instantly destroying her efforts. He probably is not being malicious, but he has a need for this enviornment and needs get met.

 

I keep my living room nice so I can always have a cup of coffee in a clean room. DH would try to make a rats nest in this room but I would clean it up the second he went to work by just throwing his stuff in a fancy box with a lid and keeping it behind a chair. When the box got full I would dump it in his shop, rinse repeat. At one point he got some ugly cheap shelves and put all this stuff that he almost never used on the shelves in the living room. He did this while I was at work very secretly. He was trying to find a way to keep the mess out where he could see it. We had WWIII and I told him on Monday morning when he went to work those shelves would be gone and the stuff would be in the trash. He grudgingly left the living room alone, but I still have to round up his stuff.

 

Dh's mother does the same thing when she comes to visit. She makes several "rats nests" in every room. I tell her for my own sanity they must be combined and although she finds it unreasonable, she does it. But the need for this sort of thing is deep in both of them and they can't help it. Therapy would be good, and may be necessary if it gets worse, but I can't see most people going to therapy for anything they don't view as a problem. I would have to make it a problem and he would only go to therapy to appease me.

 

I really do think that at the root of this OP's dh feels that he must mess up the house to make it feel like home.

 

This is probably a good point. Again, maybe having the living/dining area cleaned before bed would be a god compromise?

[Mom in High Heels]

 

These are stairwell apartments in Germany. Both of the apartments like this that we lived in had a huge living/dining area right when you walk in the house. There is no hiding messes from neighbors or friends if he's carving wood in the living room. That's unfair to the family, imo. Is that what your apartment is like, OP?

 

 

Very similar. We actually have a front hall, but our living/dining/kitchen area is all one HUGE room. There's no way for me to have "my own" clean space in here. I can't have one in our room because there is laundry everywhere. I can't have it in the school room because dh has carp in there too. Indy's room is obviously not an option either. There's just nowhere for me to get away from it. And it is embarrassing when someone drops in unexpectedly. I'm constantly blitzing the house if I know someone is coming over. It's very stressful.

Today I swept and mopped the whole house. He came in for lunch (he can walk to work) and tracked mud all through the house. I've asked him over and over to take his shoes off, but he says it's too much work to put his combat boots back on. Apparently it's easy for me to sweep and mop multiple times though. Sigh.

 

I should mention the laundry thing. I have done his laundry in the past and he complained that I didn't fold it the way he liked it. :glare: At least I folded it.

 

I have tried the box/basket method. He has a basket on a bookcase in the entry hall for the daily stuff he brings in. It's completely packed and he hasn't touched the stuff in there in months. I'm thinking about just tossing it all, but I know if I do, he'll suddenly need something out of it.

 

I'm just so frustrated. I've tried talking calmly and rationally and for a day or two, he'll clean up, but then he goes right back to the way he was.

[Julie in CA]

Please forgive me if this question sounds...rude, or unkind, or...whatever, but...

 

Was he like this when you married him? If not, did something change?

If so, well...sometimes we have to learn to live with what we signed up for.

Sounds like he's a good man in many ways, and I'd surely do a little extra serving in order to keep a good guy like that--one that supports his family in the way yours sounds like he does.

 

With that said, his man-cave would go bye-bye, and it would be transformed into a peaceful, serene, tidy getaway for me, and me only. Even if I only spent 10 minutes a week there, it's healing to know there's a clean place that's only yours. :grouphug:

[YLVD]

Try getting another hamper and putting it right where he drops the clothes.

 

 

Can you hang a hook right by the door for him and meet him at the door and remind him to hang the jacket there?

 

The thing is, with ADD, the intentions are always good but you're right in that a) he truly doesn't see the mess and b) there's no retention of what he has to do from one moment to the next.

 

 

I have ADD, am 38 and am still trying to sort this stuff out. I know how frustrating I am for my DH sometimes and you have all of my sympathy. :) :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

Very well said, I agree with all of this.

 

I don't expect SO to pick up after me like the maid, nor would I for someone else, he does help make things easier for me. I think that's a great idea.

 

He puts up hooks in places he knows that I throw my keys and other things like that.

 

It's true, there is no retention. I would give anything to be different but it just isn't happening and I'm 35. His help means a ton to me.

[YLVD]

But, I think ADD is largely being used as an excuse in this case. Yes, it can make it hard to stay on task, but it is far from impossible. Again, I'm ADD. My dd with ADD is the neatest of all of my kids. She applies her hyperfocus to cleaning her room when she is supposed to.

 

Things that help me stay on track: lists, listening to music or books on my ipod while cleaning, talking on the phone while cleaning.

 

 

 

I think these are mostly good suggestions.

 

These are stairwell apartments in Germany. Both of the apartments like this that we lived in had a huge living/dining area right when you walk in the house. There is no hiding messes from neighbors or friends if he's carving wood in the living room. That's unfair to the family, imo. Is that what your apartment is like, OP?

 

Maybe implementing a before-bed tidy for *everyone* would be a good move? Say that you want it neat and tidy for the morning.

 

 

 

This is probably a good point. Again, maybe having the living/dining area cleaned before bed would be a god compromise?

 

Just like anything else, it varies among people. I have never ever met someone with ADD that was a good cleaner, organizer, etc. I think that it can happen but is not that common, at least according to my therapist.

 

Lists?? I write and lose them within 10 minutes. I have never been able to actually use a list because I lose them. I have never gone to a store and not forgotten something major. I sometimes have to go to stores three times a day. I sometimes have lists emailed to my phone..I have kind of a crappy phone...and left the phone at home.

 

Music helps me with motivation but does not help my brain at all.

 

I can only hyperfocus a tiny bit..it isn't a common thing for me. I'm severely ADD and can't take meds. It manifests itself differently for everyone. I would do just about anything to fix it.

 

Now, we live in a house as you described and I agree about no carving in the living room. I don't do any stuff like that anyways and would not out of respect for SO and DD.

Edited September 14, 2011 by YLVD

[ezrabean2005]

He HAS a man cave. It is upstairs on the 4th floor of our building (we live on the 3rd floor). The rooms up there used to be for live in maids back when military personnel had maids (lucky ducks). Most people use theirs for storage, but we mad dh a man cave so he would have his own space. He can do his hobbies up there, but like many ADD/ADHD people, he has NO concept of time and will say he's going up for a few minutes and 4 hours later he's still there, not realizing how much time has passed and he misses our entire evening. Because of this, he's been slowly moving his hobbies downstairs. BTW, his man cave is clean. I *know* he's capable of cleaning up if it's important to him. He just can't see the everyday messes.

 

Well, which one is worse? Not having him in the "home" during the evening, or have him present but with the messes?

[GnomeyNewt]

He HAS a man cave. It is upstairs on the 4th floor of our building (we live on the 3rd floor). The rooms up there used to be for live in maids back when military personnel had maids (lucky ducks). Most people use theirs for storage, but we mad dh a man cave so he would have his own space. He can do his hobbies up there, but like many ADD/ADHD people, he has NO concept of time and will say he's going up for a few minutes and 4 hours later he's still there, not realizing how much time has passed and he misses our entire evening. Because of this, he's been slowly moving his hobbies downstairs. BTW, his man cave is clean. I *know* he's capable of cleaning up if it's important to him. He just can't see the everyday messes.

 

Everything you said here happens on regular basis for my DH. My DH has no concept of time either, I have let this aspect of the situation go -- he doesn't get that his 1 minute = 15 minutes. Our solution: get one of those phones that have satellite phones you can place all over the house (and in his man cave). When you need or want him to join you to do something (and he has let his 30 min = 4 hours) page him and ask him if he would like to join you. Also if you need him right away, don't let him enter his man cave and tell him why he needs to wait.

 

For ADHD folks to clean messes, they have to make them self aware. Such as "its time to clean the kitchen", they will see the mess than. But otherwise they will work around it as if its not there. This will drive me crazy during certain times of the month, but otherwise I have just let this go. If I see a mess he created, I tell him to go clean it. He has made a personal rule for himself, which is if he is asked to do something, he does it right away otherwise he will forget.

 

The most important thing to do, is pick your battles. Pick a few items that are really important to you and let the rest go or find a workable solution. Figure out what is ADHD related and try to understand he is not doing it "on purpose" to drive you crazy. This saved my sanity.

[LostSurprise]

Complaints about laundry~"well, would you rather go back to doing it??" or "when you complain like that I don't really feel like doing it next time. If you don't ever get around to it, I expect the basic respect of silence, ok?"

 

Box never put away~

1) ask him to put it away

2) let him know that at a certain interval you will either toss or donate it-no hard feelings its just in your way

 

Wo-man Cave~ if he's not using his...why can't it be yours?

 

And if that's not an option, see if you can organize your life so that laundry does not have a home there. I do a load a day, and then catch up Monday/Thursday. The 1-a-day loads sit in the bathroom until I put them away. Laundry days I stay on it until it is done. I used to let it sit around but I realized I need to be able to shut my bedroom door and pretend the world didn't exist sometimes.

 

The floor~ if he's on your side, as in he admits what he does, then you should be able to say 'dude, the floor???' and then he owes you a chore. Usually this kind of stuff is expected in most marriages (I did this for you, you'll do this for me later or you'll make something up to me), but if you don't see it happening perhaps you could negotiate some trade offs you can see, so you feel like a team--not someone always making up for someone else.

 

You two need to get back on the same team.

[wendylee]

Wow, sounds a LOT like my husband. I seriously thought I was going to lose my mind. I learned a lot about ADHD at this forum: http://connect.additudemag.com/groups/group/Couples_With_One_ADHD_Partner, including how to help my husband schedule things better, remember what he was supposed to do without nagging, things like that. It does get easier and honestly I was relieved to find out that I wasn't going crazy, it was simply ADHD (I say "simply" but you know what I mean!)

[twoforjoy]

If I ask my husband to do a household chore, he is happy to do it. If I don't ask, he won't. He has NO problem with food crumbs being under the table, clothes all over the bedroom floor, dishes piled in the sink, etc. As long as he's got a place to sit, clean underwear, and either a clean dish to eat off of or food that doesn't require a dish, he's good to go.

 

At this point, I just accept it. If there's an overwhelming amount of work and I need help, or I am busy with something else, I'll ask him to pitch in and he does. Otherwise, I do it. I'm the one it's really bothering, anyway.

 

My only request is that, if I'm complaining about a chore I'm doing, he is NOT to tell me, "It's not that bad." The person watching TV doesn't get to tell the person mopping the floor that floor mopping "isn't that bad." ;)

[5kidsforME]

My DH has has had his own room for the last 5 years because I refuse to sleep in a pigsty - and that's all I'm going to say about that :glare:

 

 

 

This is what I do. His stuff goes to Goodwill or in a box up to the shed. If he notices something is missing (which is rare) I say Oh it must be in the shed (which he would never go hunt for because it takes effort ;)) or I say - Gee you left it on the floor and one of the kids got it and ruined it so I threw it out (must have youngish kids for this excuse to work) :001_smile: If he complains I say "Well that's what happens when you leave your stuff lying around with little kids about" :D

 

Throwing his stuff in the garbage takes the edge off my frustration - if I start getting resentful I grab an armful of his stuff-dump it in the garbage and voila -no more resentment ;)

 

Ahhh, so you lie to him and blame it on your kids, and you feel better. :001_huh:

[Julie Smith]

No great advice. But I can in a small way understand. My dh has had computer stuff coming out his a**. Saving it because it might need it. :p Mind you when he needed something he had to buy it because he couldn't find it. It all became quickly outdated anyway.

 

I just over time and rearranging managed to make his "whole computer basement" into a room, and then a closet.

 

But you can't do that since it's a whole house you are dealing with.

 

All I can say is, good luck. :)

[SKL]

I live in the same house with a woman who does not see mess. I don't believe she's ADD or anything like that. Just doesn't understand why it's a problem if her bra, pantyhose, 2 coats, 3 water glasses, a week's worth of jewelry, 2 months' worth of work papers, and 8 pairs of shoes are strewn around the shared living room :glare:.

 

I used to let it get to me. Then I trained myself to not see it most of the time, either.

 

I think what is most upsetting is the apparent attitude that whatever

"I" want / need is always more important than "your" wants/needs. Maybe a calm discussion along those lines is in order.

 

Meanwhile, is it possible to plan out a daily "schedule/procedure" for him that would reduce some of this problem? For example, can he undress in a place that has a hamper standing right there? Can he start to recognize that woodchip cleanup must ALWAYS be included as part of the woodcarving activity (kinda like flushing is always included in a trip to the loo)? As for the coat on the chair - can you switch the seating around so that's his own chair he's hanging his coat on? Seems like some of these problems could have simple, non-emotional solutions if you could get past the "he doesn't care" feeling.

[8circles]

I've been known to strategically place signs around the house. Like "Papers do not belong here" or "this is a chair, not a hanger" or "standing urination is not allowed".

 

Seems to work at least a little bit.

[bbkaren]

If I ask my husband to do a household chore, he is happy to do it. If I don't ask, he won't. He has NO problem with food crumbs being under the table, clothes all over the bedroom floor, dishes piled in the sink, etc. As long as he's got a place to sit, clean underwear, and either a clean dish to eat off of or food that doesn't require a dish, he's good to go.

 

At this point, I just accept it. If there's an overwhelming amount of work and I need help, or I am busy with something else, I'll ask him to pitch in and he does....

 

This is mine, as well. Almost to a T.

 

It doesn't bother him so he lets it go. If I ask him to do something, he's fine with it.

 

It has to be specific: "Please sweep the kitchen floor now." Lecturing that "You have to help me around the house!" gets me a blank look. I think he really doesn't know what it means.

 

Making ongoing requests also doesn't seem to work (i.e. "Please stop dropping your laundry on the floor a foot away from the $&%* hamper!") so I've given up on that sort of thing.

 

I've tried the digging-my-heels-in thing and stopped doing his laundry. So, then, when he needs clothes, he does his laundry. No complaints from him.

 

Men! :confused: They really make you wonder sometimes, don't they?