Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I had all the answers before I had children. What I didn't realize was that parenting *seemed* like common sense because I have had a very internalized idea of correct behavior from an early age, partly due to my personality. Not that I was perfect, but I felt a huge amount of stress and guilt when I did something wrong. And that anxiety was often enough to keep me from doing something wrong in the first place. What never occurred to me was that I might have three children who were NOTHING like I was as a child. So many ways of disciplining make sense with a single child. But how do you take a child 'out of Eden' when he shares a room with two brothers? (And what if he gets into more trouble with no toys to divert him?) And how do you punish for lying, when you can't prove which child is lying? And how do you tomato stake three children at the same time (in a little house, while taking care of a very determined, mobile baby)? And how do you take away privileges when the only things left are outside play and reading (and swim team which is much needed exercise and discipline in itself)? Especially in the middle of summer! I can add chores, but that means that I am supervising/enforcing three boys doing chores in the same rooms all. day. long. Except when nursing a baby and putting her down for a nap, which is a guarantee that everything will fall apart. It doesn't help that I'm not getting enough sleep at night and almost no personal time. Hubby is working like crazy and does help *a lot* with the kids, but can't often take all 4 at once. Quiet time sounds like an awesome suggestion, but requires as much supervision/enforcement as anything else. And is impossible if the boys have lost reading time. Really, there are no answers. Just tired and frustrated tonight. Maybe the baby will sleep and I'll feel better in the morning. Sigh. For now, I'll get back to enforcing chores.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Can you send them all outside sun up to sun down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbabe Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 :grouphug: Just sending hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Can you send them all outside sun up to sun down? Yep. If I'm outside sun up to sun down to supervise them. Today they got matches out of the kitchen and lit a fire in their hideout. Fun stuff, I tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa R. Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The first thing I noticed is that your oldest 3 are boys. If you had girls, your life would (possibly) be a little easier now. Maybe a little quieter. Maybe less physical. Maybe. Here's the good news: boys are generally harder when they're younger (more active and exhausting for mom), but they're easier when they're older. Less drama, more straightforward, calmer, and so on. Of course, I'm generalizing here, but this is very typical. It sounds like your boys are active in a typical way, too. Also, it's hard for you to relate, because you were never a little boy!! Sometimes I would shake my head in disbelief at one of my sons. My dh would just act like it was perfectly normal behavior. Really, your dh is more qualified to let you know if they're behavior is typical or not. My oldest ds will be 18 next week, and I decided long ago that I'll never fully understand boys. So, hang in there. If you do the hard work/child training now, it will pay dividends. Really, it gets *easier*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Oh, my. I see. I was thinking more along the lines of riding bikes up and down the street and playing kick ball. Not arson. I'm now afraid to suggest scraps of wood and hammers/nails. Has dad made a rule that they aren't to drive you mad during the day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 You are in the thick of it. :grouphug: First, stark making sleep a priority. Nap. Put the baby down, one boy with you, one in the living room and one in their bedroom. They must stay there or go to bed early. Then, start with discipline. Follow through with what you say. Train them to good habits. It's hard at first, but once they get it, your load lightens considerably. And, give yourself grace. You are in the thick of it. :grouphug: I've BTDT. It's hard, but you can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Can you get a teen to come over (preferably a boy) and play with them? Chores at night with dad? My husband has worked one of our kids hard, because that particular child needs hard, physical work. I think at 9 that he's old enough to have dad get involved with "making life easier" during the day, and also.... you just need sleep!!! ;) Maybe 2 or 3 days a week, can you get a teen? I exclusively nursed, except for a few times when I left rice milk for my son.... my husband would give me a "night of sleep". Helps that I introduced bottles at the hospital, because I had to regulate my milk. (I immediately make too much, and didn't want an infection like the first time round) Of course, you could have a rewards system for Saturdays... for children who behave :) Sometimes I miss that my 8 year old has no siblings... but I know that siblings make some things harder :( Think of when they get bigger, though!! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I love Michael Gurian's books. I had lots of sisters and totally relate well to women. Boys are something else. His books helped me learn about boys. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Something that worked/is working here is doing the opposite of punishing bad behaviour(which I still do), but I had to promote the good behaviour or chaos reigned. We started with a baby food jar(any small sized jar would work), and cotton balls. EVerytime I caught 1 doing something good I put a cotton ball in the jar. WHen the jar was full it meant they earned a family fun activity. We started with a small jar and everyone working towards 1 jar together to make sure they had nearly immediate success. It won't solve everything but if the positive behaviours are being caught and promoted they will strive to have more of them. Another quick thing that has worked here is stickers. For a long time I walked around with a roll of stickers in my pocket. Everytime I caught them doing ANYTHING positive (even if it was simply they didn't argue for 5 minutes, or they smiled at each other etc) I stuck a sticker on their shirt. They soon started working hard at earning more than their siblings, which meant more peace and less punishments being doled out. I agree with the pp that suggested hiring a teen to be a mother's helper a couple times a week. It would give you a reprieve to nap or at least put your feet up and keep the boys supervised. Is there a drop in program they can attend during the day? Our community runs a summer fun program a couple days a week, with games, crafts etc, it costs $5 for the whole summer this year, last year it was free. In my old city they had staff go to various playgrounds throughout the week and organize big games and crafts etc. Can you get out of the house with them all to break up the patterns being set in? Even if it is a family walk every morning after breakfast, or to the park everyday or something to break up the day and give a change of scenery for all of you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgrubbs Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Heidi, I too have 3 boys. I stopped trying for that girl bc I was afraid I would have 4 boys (or 5 - twins run in the family! - and sometimes I regreat that, but I digress.....) It is really hard. THere are times when I think "I just want to sit down for 5 mintues." so I totally understand. I agree with everything everyone else has said but I have one other suggestion for you. Pick up the book Wild THings: The Art of Nurturing Boys. As a mom of 3 boys, who had no brothers, no boy cousins and every babysitting job I ever had involved girls I had no clue about boys, and still many things are lost on me, but this book helped tremendously! One other suggestion -laps. Sometimes I make my kids run laps. We have a fenced in back yard so they can't run around the house but they can run around the backyard..... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Oh, my. I see. I was thinking more along the lines of riding bikes up and down the street and playing kick ball. Not arson. I'm now afraid to suggest scraps of wood and hammers/nails. Has dad made a rule that they aren't to drive you mad during the day? We live out in the country. It is *astounding* the amount of trouble the boys can get into outside. Even simple rules like 'don't leave the property' won't be followed, and then they get their outside playtime taken away. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Awwww, hugs to you Heidi. Hey, if you need to, Hannah would be most happy to watch that little bundle of sunshine. I'd help too. :tongue_smilie: I wish I knew what to say. I only have one boy and well, God knows what He is doing. :D I agree with the pp who said it will get easier. I believe it. [At least that's what I keep telling myself. :001_smile: Hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 One other suggestion -laps. Sometimes I make my kids run laps. We have a fenced in back yard so they can't run around the house but they can run around the backyard..... :grouphug: My friend has her kids run round the house; as long as it's not too hot, that works. Don't know if you were looking for "punishment" ideas :) Also, there's also the option of taking them into the Firehouse, for a talk from the fireman... and then... maybe juvi to show them "what's up" if they have to talk with the law. I would also explain that I'd let them start fires, if they can go for x amount of time being good. I think that every little boy wants to start fires, it's starting them at the right time... in the right place. You guys camp, right? Then they were kinda... "acting like dad".... just not at the right time :tongue_smilie: Maybe some chores given by dad... to be checked when he gets home? My cousins had to move all the stones from one side of the field to the other... and stuff like that... because even though they lived on a farm... their parents didn't think they had enough work :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Can you get a teen to come over (preferably a boy) and play with them? Chores at night with dad? My husband has worked one of our kids hard, because that particular child needs hard, physical work. I think at 9 that he's old enough to have dad get involved with "making life easier" during the day, and also.... you just need sleep!!! ;) Maybe 2 or 3 days a week, can you get a teen? I exclusively nursed, except for a few times when I left rice milk for my son.... my husband would give me a "night of sleep". Helps that I introduced bottles at the hospital, because I had to regulate my milk. (I immediately make too much, and didn't want an infection like the first time round) Of course, you could have a rewards system for Saturdays... for children who behave :) Sometimes I miss that my 8 year old has no siblings... but I know that siblings make some things harder :( Think of when they get bigger, though!! ;) My niece is really good at playing with them, but it is a long drive back and forth for her to get here. I don't know of anyone close by. My husband hasn't been getting enough sleep at night either, even if she would take a bottle. I know that the boys would benefit from hard chores with their dad, but I'm not sure what exactly to have them do (and dh is pretty exhausted, too). Really, they've been awesome as siblings. They are the 3 Musketeers and I'm glad for them. But it often makes their trouble exponential.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 The first thing I noticed is that your oldest 3 are boys. If you had girls, your life would (possibly) be a little easier now. Maybe a little quieter. Maybe less physical. Maybe. Here's the good news: boys are generally harder when they're younger (more active and exhausting for mom), but they're easier when they're older. Less drama, more straightforward, calmer, and so on. Of course, I'm generalizing here, but this is very typical. It sounds like your boys are active in a typical way, too. Also, it's hard for you to relate, because you were never a little boy!! Sometimes I would shake my head in disbelief at one of my sons. My dh would just act like it was perfectly normal behavior. Really, your dh is more qualified to let you know if they're behavior is typical or not. My oldest ds will be 18 next week, and I decided long ago that I'll never fully understand boys. So, hang in there. If you do the hard work/child training now, it will pay dividends. Really, it gets *easier*. Oh, I'm praying this is true. :tongue_smilie: I'm a little afraid of what my oldest will be like as a teen. He is super-duper... well, he's my drama king and all mouth/attitude. It might not be pretty. My dh is a great boy dad, but his patience wears reeeeeally thin sometimes. I don't think he remembers much about his childhood (it was a rough one...very different from our boys' lives). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 My friend has her kids run round the house; as long as it's not too hot, that works. Don't know if you were looking for "punishment" ideas :) Also, there's also the option of taking them into the Firehouse, for a talk from the fireman... and then... maybe juvi to show them "what's up" if they have to talk with the law. I would also explain that I'd let them start fires, if they can go for x amount of time being good. I think that every little boy wants to start fires, it's starting them at the right time... in the right place. You guys camp, right? Then they were kinda... "acting like dad".... just not at the right time :tongue_smilie: Maybe some chores given by dad... to be checked when he gets home? My cousins had to move all the stones from one side of the field to the other... and stuff like that... because even though they lived on a farm... their parents didn't think they had enough work :) The son who instigated the matches is planning on being a fireman/paramedic. Which is probably why he is fascinated by matches and blood. :tongue_smilie: (Or the other way around....) The boys are leaving next week to go camping on a boys only camping trip with Dad and friends. I can not tell you how excited I am about that. Lola and I are going to a Christian Classical Ed Conference in Newberg for two days. Wahooooooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Really, they've been awesome as siblings. They are the 3 Musketeers and I'm glad for them. But it often makes their trouble exponential.... This is my oldest 2. Oh my goodness the trouble they scheme up together. I often have to divide and conquer. IS if possible they are bored and are trying to find exciting things to do on their own? I know when mine get bored they come up with some really really stupid ideas (like lighting fires). Maybe having more directed play or activities will help. Some kids do fabulous with scads of free time. Mine are the type that really don't, small amounts yes but beyond that like I said they come up with some really bad ideas. I think I would set them to work doing things they can do with you relaxing on a lounger in the yard like hauling rocks, or weeding or something of that nature. Speaking of nature, If I give them a "mission" for during their outdoor time it keep s their heads in the right place so to speak. SO I might give them a list of items to find (1 feather, 3 pretty rocks, 1 peice of bark, etc), or a mission of finding and catching a bug or frog, or finding and drawing something in nature. It seems to keep them in a designated area, keep them focused, and basically I know during the time they are hunting they are not doing something completely hairbrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 What about the kids at CC? Challenge is a place to maybe pull from?? Some of them might welcome some extra money. Chores can be real or made to feel real. The stones were moved "so the cows could eat grass" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Awwww, hugs to you Heidi. Hey, if you need to, Hannah would be most happy to watch that little bundle of sunshine. I'd help too. :tongue_smilie: I wish I knew what to say. I only have one boy and well, God knows what He is doing. :D I agree with the pp who said it will get easier. I believe it. [At least that's what I keep telling myself. :001_smile: Hang in there. I just might drive her up to you some time. :001_smile: Though she's a little less sunshiny lately. She is now getting into *everything* and seems to have more of an... opinion about everything. And I think she has two teeth coming in. At least that's what I tell myself when she won't sleep, cause there's sorta a light at the end of the tunnel on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The boys are leaving next week to go camping on a boys only camping trip with Dad and friends. I can not tell you how excited I am about that. Lola and I are going to a Christian Classical Ed Conference in Newberg for two days. Wahooooooo! I remember you talking about that camping trip, before!! I'm jealous! Are you going to a Veritas Conference?? I would have LOVED to go, but didn't hear about it this year. Maybe next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I agree with all of the suggestions for finding the good things they are doing and praising them or rewarding them in some way. When my two almost 6 year olds start rough housing, I will warn them to stop or they will "sit with books". Now, these guys love books but they hate having to sit still for any length of time. Every once in a while I will have to follow through and make them sit but most of the time just the threat will make them stop whatever they are doing and move on to something acceptable. If they do end up sitting with books, when their time is up, they always end up sitting there longer because they are so interested in whatever book they are looking at or reading. It's kind of funny actually. The other thing is I think you should reconsider quiet time. My two shared a room for a long time and there was no way they would have done quiet time in there alone. So we do it in our main living area of the house. One on the couch and one on the rug in the foyer or the library (somewhere where I can see them from where I am having my quiet time;). When we were in the rental house, which was smaller and had less options, we would have one on the couch and one on the floor behind my chair. I would put bean bag chairs on each side to define his space a little more. At that time they needed to be where they couldn't see each other well because they would start laughing or something. If your kids have never done quiet time before, start out with just 15 or 20 minutes and work your way up. I allow mine to have any kind of quiet toy or any books. So they do Legos, Lincoln Logs, matchbox cars, puzzles, etc. Anything quiet. They can also have a small snack and I have taught them to either make sure the pieces are bite sized or to carefully eat it over a small bowl. I don't know what your rules are for television but here we allow one short movie (approximately half hour video or dvd) on week days and one long one on weekend days. This is a huge incentive for being quiet during quiet time. After quiet time, they must clean up their spaces and then they can watch their movie. Sometimes they get to playing something else and forget about it. Our quiet time lasts for 75 minutes and then there is the 30 minute movie so that is a good amount of down time for me. Of course, I don't have any other children so there is a big difference but maybe you could do this when the youngest is napping. We went straight from naps to quiet time so we have been doing this for quite some time and it was an easy transition because they really wanted to quit the naps. They are learning to read now. At some point, when they are reading well enough, I will require the first 15 minutes or so of quiet time to be reading-to-self time. I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. I have been there and I know that not having any time to yourself makes it soooo much harder. I hope you can find some ways to help relieve your situation soon. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Something that worked/is working here is doing the opposite of punishing bad behaviour(which I still do), but I had to promote the good behaviour or chaos reigned. We started with a baby food jar(any small sized jar would work), and cotton balls. EVerytime I caught 1 doing something good I put a cotton ball in the jar. WHen the jar was full it meant they earned a family fun activity. We started with a small jar and everyone working towards 1 jar together to make sure they had nearly immediate success. It won't solve everything but if the positive behaviours are being caught and promoted they will strive to have more of them. Another quick thing that has worked here is stickers. For a long time I walked around with a roll of stickers in my pocket. Everytime I caught them doing ANYTHING positive (even if it was simply they didn't argue for 5 minutes, or they smiled at each other etc) I stuck a sticker on their shirt. They soon started working hard at earning more than their siblings, which meant more peace and less punishments being doled out. I agree with the pp that suggested hiring a teen to be a mother's helper a couple times a week. It would give you a reprieve to nap or at least put your feet up and keep the boys supervised. Is there a drop in program they can attend during the day? Our community runs a summer fun program a couple days a week, with games, crafts etc, it costs $5 for the whole summer this year, last year it was free. In my old city they had staff go to various playgrounds throughout the week and organize big games and crafts etc. Can you get out of the house with them all to break up the patterns being set in? Even if it is a family walk every morning after breakfast, or to the park everyday or something to break up the day and give a change of scenery for all of you? I like your positive reinforcement ideas. I might have to work on that. I'm so bad at sticking with that stuff, though. (My lack of self discipline is certainly rubbing off on my children...) They are going to their 3rd VBS this next week. Those have been life-savers, though sometimes I feel like they are being rewarded for less than stellar behavior... I KNOW that we need a change of scenery. I'll have to work on that one, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 I remember you talking about that camping trip, before!! I'm jealous! Are you going to a Veritas Conference?? I would have LOVED to go, but didn't hear about it this year. Maybe next... Yes!! It is the 4th and 5th. Maybe you could still register? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I like your positive reinforcement ideas. I might have to work on that. I'm so bad at sticking with that stuff, though. (My lack of self discipline is certainly rubbing off on my children...) They are going to their 3rd VBS this next week. Those have been life-savers, though sometimes I feel like they are being rewarded for less than stellar behavior... I KNOW that we need a change of scenery. I'll have to work on that one, too. It is my own lack of self discipline that made me carry the stickers with me. IF I didn't I would forget all about them and never use them. By keeping them on me at all times I was more likely to remember to use them. So glad you have some place to send them. They get the fun of VBS (my kids LOVE VBS) and you get a much needed break. Try not to think of that stuff as rewarding the bad behaviour and focus on it promoting the good behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 I agree with all of the suggestions for finding the good things they are doing and praising them or rewarding them in some way. When my two almost 6 year olds start rough housing, I will warn them to stop or they will "sit with books". Now, these guys love books but they hate having to sit still for any length of time. Every once in a while I will have to follow through and make them sit but most of the time just the threat will make them stop whatever they are doing and move on to something acceptable. If they do end up sitting with books, when their time is up, they always end up sitting there longer because they are so interested in whatever book they are looking at or reading. It's kind of funny actually. The other thing is I think you should reconsider quiet time. My two shared a room for a long time and there was no way they would have done quiet time in there alone. So we do it in our main living area of the house. One on the couch and one on the rug in the foyer or the library (somewhere where I can see them from where I am having my quiet time;). When we were in the rental house, which was smaller and had less options, we would have one on the couch and one on the floor behind my chair. I would put bean bag chairs on each side to define his space a little more. At that time they needed to be where they couldn't see each other well because they would start laughing or something. If your kids have never done quiet time before, start out with just 15 or 20 minutes and work your way up. I allow mine to have any kind of quiet toy or any books. So they do Legos, Lincoln Logs, matchbox cars, puzzles, etc. Anything quiet. They can also have a small snack and I have taught them to either make sure the pieces are bite sized or to carefully eat it over a small bowl. I don't know what your rules are for television but here we allow one short movie (approximately half hour video or dvd) on week days and one long one on weekend days. This is a huge incentive for being quiet during quiet time. After quiet time, they must clean up their spaces and then they can watch their movie. Sometimes they get to playing something else and forget about it. Our quiet time lasts for 75 minutes and then there is the 30 minute movie so that is a good amount of down time for me. Of course, I don't have any other children so there is a big difference but maybe you could do this when the youngest is napping. We went straight from naps to quiet time so we have been doing this for quite some time and it was an easy transition because they really wanted to quit the naps. They are learning to read now. At some point, when they are reading well enough, I will require the first 15 minutes or so of quiet time to be reading-to-self time. I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. I have been there and I know that not having any time to yourself makes it soooo much harder. I hope you can find some ways to help relieve your situation soon. :grouphug: Reading is something that happens constantly around here (and everywhere... It is astounding that I have 3 such crazy boys who are also avid readers, but I tell people that is God's little gift to me and the only thing standing between me and a straight jacket. The problem is, reading is about the only thing I have left to dangle as an incentive, which means I have to take it away if they don't follow through on chores or break rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Thanks for all the hugs and suggestions. I'm headed out the door. I'll respond more later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Just keep repeating to yourself "I can make it until next week. I can make it until next week. I can make it until next week." :D You can make it until they leave for camping time with their Dad. Maybe by the skin of your teeth, but you can totally make it. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) My niece is really good at playing with them, but it is a long drive back and forth for her to get here. I don't know of anyone close by. My husband hasn't been getting enough sleep at night either, even if she would take a bottle. I know that the boys would benefit from hard chores with their dad, but I'm not sure what exactly to have them do (and dh is pretty exhausted, too). Really, they've been awesome as siblings. They are the 3 Musketeers and I'm glad for them. But it often makes their trouble exponential.... Someone might have suggested this already, but the physical labor doesn't have to exactly be productive. You can't obey? Fine. Get a shovel and dig a hole over there. Still can't obey? Okay. Fill it back in. Really? Alright. Move that pile of rocks/wood from here to there, oh...and back again. Still feel like breaking the rules? Run laps. Anything at all to wear. them. out. Boys that are tired are less likely to get into trouble. Once they are tired, find something productive for them to do. Give them a pile of wood and have them build a fort. Get them a baking soda and vinegar rocket. Have them plant a garden and tend to it. Get them a flip video camera and have them make movies. Does Dad crack down on them? I know my boys need firm boundaries and they tend to respond better when they're given man-to-man. :grouphug: Boys do think differently, and I totally feel your pain (and JOY!) on the brother pack mentality :grouphug:. Edited July 29, 2011 by JudoMom ETA: Their and they're are NOT the same. Shouldn't post after 2.5 hours of Judo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Yep. If I'm outside sun up to sun down to supervise them. Today they got matches out of the kitchen and lit a fire in their hideout. Fun stuff, I tell you. OH my! :grouphug: I was coming to commiserate because I have boys all the same age as yours and it really is hard. My meager suggestions - - chores that don't require a lot of supervision from you (scrubbing the tub, washing baseboards, wiping down fronts of appliances, folding laundry if you can stand it, etc) - literal time outs. My children hate losing free time. An 8 minute time out spent in the corner where they can't play or do what they like is truly a punishment. - 15 minutes off bedtime (this can get complicated if they all share a room) - turn it around and offer an incentive for following the rules, following your routine and good behavior (this has been most effective at our house). Put up a chart and start with 5 smiley faces per child per day, x them out for true disobedience or infractions you feel the kids know better than to do. Offer rewards for ending the day with 3 left, or all 5, etc. My kids are earning points this summer for doing their morning routine without reminders, math, reading, and various other things (I have a list posted on the fridge). Points can be cashed in for certain rewards. HTH - I've been where you are (am I still there? probably…) and it's not easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Yeah, it is much tougher when there is more than one, they aren't easy peasy, and you get tired. Though I had to learn to do totally differently with my ds (now 16) and I had a few really rough days and weeks along the way, it was only him I was having to deal with. Now that I have three with real issues (and two more babies and btw, still a hubby and two teens!), it's a whole 'nother story. I sooooooooooooooooooo felt your post! Hang in there. BTW, we started using Time-In (of sorts). It changed EVERYTHING. I cannot believe how differently things are going. And our doctor made mention of how much calmer (though still very energetic; not wild) they were today. We're trying. Sometimes we just gotta figure out what will work with the kiddos we have. There just isn't a one-size-fits all. Kids, parents, and the dynamics of an individual family change things up a bit :) Edited July 29, 2011 by 2J5M9K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncmom2dawters Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 You might want to check out the book Raising Real Men and some of the workshop CDs from the authors about raising boys. The authors have six sons. http://www.raisingrealmen.com/ourstore/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmmiSays Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Someone might have suggested this already, but the physical labor doesn't have to exactly be productive. You can't obey? Fine. Get a shovel and dig a hole over there. Still can't obey? Okay. Fill it back in. Really? Alright. Move that pile of rocks/wood from here to there, oh...and back again. Still feel like breaking the rules? Run laps. Anything at all to wear. them. out. Boys that are tired are less likely to get into trouble. Once they are tired, find something productive for them to do. Give them a pile of wood and have them build a fort. Get them a baking soda and vinegar rocket. Have them plant a garden and tend to it. Get them a flip video camera and have them make movies. Does Dad crack down on them? I know my boys need firm boundaries and they tend to respond better when their given man-to-man. :grouphug: Boys do think differently, and I totally feel your pain (and JOY!) on the brother pack mentality :grouphug:. :iagree: We DO NOT accept lying, disobedience, or any other insolent behavior. We have set boundaries and if anyone decides to cross them, then we are on it right away. I don't spank but I will give out some type of physical activity such as running laps, running up and down a hill, jumping jacks, sit-ups, push ups, jack knives, squats, lunges antil they can't go any more. It's really like a fitness boot camp. After this they then usually have to write out whatever the did "I will not be dishonest" for 50 -100 times (depending on the age of the child).This will usually tire them out and make them think twice about crossing the line. My husband usually follows up with a father son talk and that usually cements it. My sons are younger than yours but so far so good. I also wanted to add that I too have a baby girl and I was very concerned with the how things would flow once she arrived so I maintained a STRICT schedule so that it would be easy to handle, I even schedule down time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Channel your inner drill sergeant. Watch some movies with some really tough drill sergeants if you need to. Boys seem to respond to that kind of thing, odd creatures that they are. I agree about the 'hard labor doesn't need to be productive' post. Boys seem to be programmed to need some kind of hard labor and grueling tests of stamina to function properly, plus it tires them out so they have less energy for mischief. Good luck. My own boys are pretty well spaced out (20, 15, and 4), so they never did get a chance to group up on me, luckily enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The son who instigated the matches is planning on being a fireman/paramedic. Which is probably why he is fascinated by matches and blood. :tongue_smilie: (Or the other way around....) Sounds just like my bil. Apparently, he set the neighbor's field on fire when he was a kid. :tongue_smilie: (No injuries/not a huge amount of damage -- everything ok in the end.) Just one of many, many amusing (at least in hindsight) episodes about his childhood. Now, as a grown-up, bil is a paramedic, an awesome cook (who is just fine w/ handling gas flames, super-hot oil, etc...), and handy w/ about anything. He's also (still) an adrenaline junkie. I always joke w/ him that if he does something crazy enough to injure himself around us, he has to make sure he's still alive & functioning enough so that he can take care of himself too. ;):lol: Maybe it will be funny to tell these stories when your boys have grown up? No advice here. Just another :grouphug:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalieclare Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Heidi, I don't really have any advice for you other than "Persevere! Hang in there!" And I just wanted to affirm you as a mom. You truly are the perfect mom for your particular children. You may feel worn out and at the end of your rope, but you were matched in the heavens with those boys and your little girl. Maybe I actually do have one little bit of advice: be as adventuresome as you possibly can. My two oldest kids are girls, but they are extremely daring and adventurous. I decided a long time ago that my best strategy for them was to find the most dangerous things that I felt comfortable with and lead my girls to them. That way, I would be feeding their need for adrenaline, but at my pace, at my timing. So, we have a yard full of zip-lines, trampolines, horses, fire-pits, bows and arrows, airsoft guns, etc etc etc. I take them cliff jumping (where I am comfortable with it), white water tubing, into funky hair salons to get dreads (soon) and feathers. For my oldest's 18th birthday, she received a certificate to go sky diving. For years these girls have heard, "the more you show me responsibility, the more freedom you can have." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The son who instigated the matches is planning on being a fireman/paramedic. Which is probably why he is fascinated by matches and blood. :tongue_smilie: (Or the other way around....) The boys are leaving next week to go camping on a boys only camping trip with Dad and friends. I can not tell you how excited I am about that. Lola and I are going to a Christian Classical Ed Conference in Newberg for two days. Wahooooooo! I know fire is a bad thing but this will be hilarious someday - he wants to be a fireman! :D Keep at it Mom you're doing a great job. I vote with the rest time and maybe those long :auto: to your niece aren't so bad. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I have twin eight year old boys -- and I know that friends who had one single girl didn't have a clue what I was dealing with. My boys at one point started "ganging up"on me in various ways. They still do a little bit. I'm pretty nice and sweet and mellow -- and want life to be fun. Who wants to life life yelling at her kids? Finally I realized w/ boys that I had to be the "alpha" dog and get the upper hand. I don't spank or hit ever. But I do have what a friend calls a "hairy eye ball." Meaning I have an internal ability to get super assertive (maybe aggressive) and take the upper hand in the situation. I live in relocation apts. so I understand what small means. If I had to I'd put one of the boys in time outs in the bathtub. I'm not kidding. I'd want them to start thinking, "um, mom goes a little nuts we better not push it too far." I definitely use watching dvds as a tool. We don't have TV but if we did and I caught them playing w/ matches -- which is way over the line as far as I'm concerned -- they'd watch me unplug the TV and take it to the garage. If dh complains I'd start to see him as part of the problem dynamic. He has to support you getting the dominant position w/ these boys. If you don't have any goodies to take away -- give them some. Like a really cool toy. Later it can be used to keep them in good behavior! Please keep in mind that I'm cookie baking, book read aloud, kissy type of mom. It's taken a lot for me to realize that I have to be the alpha dog w/ boys. It wasn't my first inclination. Hang in there. It does get better. But always keep in mind: you're a person too and it's not okay for these kids to run all over you and ruin the family environment. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 :grouphug: Just stopping in to say you are NOT a parenting failure. You are an awesome mom who just needs a little more sleep ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Sometimes, when I'm at my wits' end, my husband speaking calmly and solemnly to the boys, himself, alone, does the trick. When he talks about life lessons of why it is wrong to do/not do something, what his expectations of them are as they grow into men, what he expects from them as part of a family, etc. all just seem to carry more weight (at times) than when they hear it from me. I don't know, maybe it's a gene thing, LOL.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Someone might have suggested this already, but the physical labor doesn't have to exactly be productive. You can't obey? Fine. Get a shovel and dig a hole over there. Still can't obey? Okay. Fill it back in. Really? Alright. Move that pile of rocks/wood from here to there, oh...and back again. Still feel like breaking the rules? Run laps. Anything at all to wear. them. out. Boys that are tired are less likely to get into trouble. Once they are tired, find something productive for them to do. Give them a pile of wood and have them build a fort. Get them a baking soda and vinegar rocket. Have them plant a garden and tend to it. Get them a flip video camera and have them make movies. Does Dad crack down on them? I know my boys need firm boundaries and they tend to respond better when their given man-to-man. :grouphug: Boys do think differently, and I totally feel your pain (and JOY!) on the brother pack mentality :grouphug:. :iagree::iagree: Yup, man, on man, that pack mentality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Heidi, I don't really have any advice for you other than "Persevere! Hang in there!" And I just wanted to affirm you as a mom. You truly are the perfect mom for your particular children. You may feel worn out and at the end of your rope, but you were matched in the heavens with those boys and your little girl. Maybe I actually do have one little bit of advice: be as adventuresome as you possibly can. My two oldest kids are girls, but they are extremely daring and adventurous. I decided a long time ago that my best strategy for them was to find the most dangerous things that I felt comfortable with and lead my girls to them. That way, I would be feeding their need for adrenaline, but at my pace, at my timing. So, we have a yard full of zip-lines, trampolines, horses, fire-pits, bows and arrows, airsoft guns, etc etc etc. I take them cliff jumping (where I am comfortable with it), white water tubing, into funky hair salons to get dreads (soon) and feathers. For my oldest's 18th birthday, she received a certificate to go sky diving. For years these girls have heard, "the more you show me responsibility, the more freedom you can have." Those are such fantastic ideas! On top of my boys, I have total physical girls and THIS is exactly what they need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I was thinking more along the lines of riding bikes up and down the street and playing kick ball. Not arson. As someone else said, this is a broad generalization, but I assume you were thinking along those lines because you have a girl. Honestly, the only time my son is quiet is when he's asleep, reading or getting himself into some kind of trouble. He's gotten into the matches, too, although fortunately never actually set anything on fire. Heidi, I'm sorry. I'm sure you're exhausted. When mine were younger and our days got like that, I'd sometimes just declare movie time, provide snacks, darken the room (close the curtains and turn off the lights), pop in the DVD, sit down and watch with them. There would be a tiny, guilty voice in my head about plunking them in front of the screen when they could be outside playing, but I did my best to ignore it. Other things I found helped: Mine behaved better and were happier if they did a little bit of schoolwork during the summer. It was like they just couldn't function properly if their brains were not getting enough input. So, it was part of our routine that each of them would do a couple of pages of math or something first thing each weekday. We also used to do summer school. I'd pick a topic, and we'd do a very light, loose unit study heavy on crafts and fun activities around the subject. It sounds like just more work up front, but the combination of that and the above saved my sanity for several summers. Sometimes, we just had to get out of the house. Even if it was something as uninspiring as going to the mall, wadering around and then having a snack in the food court, it was enough to feel like we'd done something. And it would break the pattern of boredom-related bad behavior. And, when all else fails, remember that this, too shall pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I have had the same situation with school during the summer, we school year round anyway, but when I have taken some of the summer off, I find that my kids are into everything and arguing all day. I agree with their brains needing some stimulation every day and it helps keep them in line. Otherwise they do things like building a block tower that they knock down with nerf arrows, which would be fine, but they build it right in front of the window, and the window gets broken. :glare: I just wanted to commiserate and say how hard it is with a baby around and when sleep deprived all the time. I know that very well. Hang in there, it will get better. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalieclare Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Oh, I wanted to add, that I gave my boy (once he turned 10 or so, but much later than the girls) the chore of burning old bills and such. We taught him fire safety, but we wanted him to have an outlet to "play with fire". :lol: Today, he loves making his own fireworks, but as he is extremely and inordinately law-abiding, he won't ever light them off unless it is the 4th or New Year's Eve. He's highly distractable, but rigidly lawful! :D We are fortunate to have a friend who is a licensed pyrotechnician who has had Charles over a few times to teach him stuff. I want my kids to know that they can do adventurous stuff, at the right time, in the right place, in the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakotajm Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The first thing I noticed is that your oldest 3 are boys. If you had girls, your life would (possibly) be a little easier now. Maybe a little quieter. Maybe less physical. Maybe. Here's the good news: boys are generally harder when they're younger (more active and exhausting for mom), but they're easier when they're older. Less drama, more straightforward, calmer, and so on. Of course, I'm generalizing here, but this is very typical. It sounds like your boys are active in a typical way, too. Also, it's hard for you to relate, because you were never a little boy!! Sometimes I would shake my head in disbelief at one of my sons. My dh would just act like it was perfectly normal behavior. Really, your dh is more qualified to let you know if they're behavior is typical or not. My oldest ds will be 18 next week, and I decided long ago that I'll never fully understand boys. So, hang in there. If you do the hard work/child training now, it will pay dividends. Really, it gets *easier*. :lol::lol: Totally stereotype. Trust me. Fire in the hideout-my 3 girls do it regularly. Anything you can think of? My middle one has already done it, I'm pretty sure. If not, I took care of that when I was her age! :D Lakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jryanbass Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 My 6 and 3 year old LOVE cleaning the bathtub with vinegar and baking soda. Once I sprinkle the baking soda in the tub (don't leave it with them! I speak from experience:glare:) I let them spray a bottle of vinegar all over the tub and scrub. They LOVE watching the chemical reaction, and the scrubbing gets the tub clean. And even if its not super clean, it keeps them occupied for a while.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 :grouphug: You're not a parenting failure! I can totally relate-my boys are the same ages as yours and I have a little...determined....princess on the tail end. -Definitely involve Dad with the boys' treatment of you. My DH sat our boys down and told them unless they were good to ME and obeyed ME, they were going to bed the minute he got home. They really treasure their time with Dad, so they are willing to put up with me to get to him. ;) We were having significant behavior problems that warranted this type of consequence. -Besides physical activity, it is helpful to give the boys actual jobs that need to be done. Is there something that needs to be built/repaired/demolished/etc they can be trusted to do? -Cleaning with squirt bottles full of safe cleaning items is a great job for my kids. -Do you have some type of reward system in place? My kids respond much better to rewards than consequences and/or punishments. You really are in the thick of it! Don't give up! Having sons blows my mind most days, but what a gift they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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